Time Nick Message
00:00 thd ftherese: The primary author would go in 700
00:00 thd ftherese: The secondary author in 701
00:00 ftherese all the secondary authors would go in 701
00:00 ftherese and they would remain separate
00:00 ftherese or would I join all the secondary authors, by using the "join" feature
00:02 thd ftherese: yes I failed to remember UNIMARC correctly
00:02 thd ftherese: MARC 21 is simpler on the treatment of author fields only.
00:02 thd ftherese: The primary author would go in 700
00:03 thd ftherese: The secondary author in 702
00:03 ftherese what about 701?
00:04 thd ftherese: 701 is when you cannot establish a primary author
00:04 ftherese ahh got it
00:05 thd ftherese: As you said all tertiary, etc. authors would be added to repeated 702 fields
00:05 ftherese ok
00:05 ftherese then would those fields be "joined"
00:05 thd ftherese: 7XX is for the official name.
00:06 thd ftherese: The joined representation transcribed from the book would go in 200 $c
00:07 thd ftherese: 200 $c might have "by T S Eliot" exactly as the words appear in the book.
00:07 ftherese ah
00:07 ftherese what about collection
00:07 ftherese I see 410
00:07 ftherese where does the number go?
00:09 thd ftherese: 410 $h is for the number of a series
00:10 ftherese so... for a collection like
00:10 ftherese Sources Chretiennes
00:10 ftherese with lots of numbers in the collection
00:11 thd ftherese: do you mean a regularly issued periodical or a series of books?
00:11 ftherese series of books
00:11 thd ftherese: 410 is for books
00:11 gmcharlt thd: note change I made to agenda for tomorrow
00:12 hugo_ Hello everyone
00:12 thd gmcharlt: I suggested that you change the agenda
00:12 thd gmcharlt: I just copied the previous agenda and simplified it.
00:12 gmcharlt yep, I'm just telling you that I have in fact made a change
00:13 hugo_ I wonder if I might ask some questions before beginning an install...?
00:14 hugo_ I've spent quite some time learning that I don't know enough to get Koha to install on a Mac. Frustrating, and I'd like to keep trying... but I'm running up against a deadline.
00:14 chris mason: are you around?
00:15 chris hugo_: mason has been doing some installs on macs
00:15 chris if you can catch him, he might be some help
00:15 chris @seen mason
00:15 munin chris: mason was last seen in #koha 1 day, 11 hours, 3 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <mason> fyi: use zebra, nozeb has old functionallity gaps, and no-one is working on fixing them
00:15 thd ftherese: if you have many numbers for a book series then you might create a separate record for each with a 410 field to designate the series which they all have in common.
00:16 hugo_ ah - but you see, with the deadline, I'm "giving up" and going to go with Debian
00:16 hugo_ thought I'd love to get the Mac working later...
00:16 chris right, following the INSTALL.debian-lenny guide is probably your best bet then
00:17 hugo_ that is my hope!
00:17 hugo_ a client has donated an old dell (they bought a Mac), and I'd like to know if it's up to the job -
00:17 thd hugo_: OSX is not worth the effort unless you have a great amount of time.
00:17 hugo_ it's a 3.2 GHz P4, with 1 GB RAM
00:17 hugo_ my guess is that's plenty - am I right?
00:18 chris how big a library are you going to be running?
00:18 hugo_ very small local library. One branch.
00:18 hugo_ I'd guess a couple thousand books, tops
00:18 hugo_ maybe 500 patrons
00:18 chris yeah taht should be fine
00:18 hugo_ cool, thanks
00:21 hugo_ My second question is, do I simply go here: http://www.debian.org/distrib/ - or are there choices I need to make to get the right thing?
00:21 thd ftherese: In addition to 995 $b, Propriétaire, 'items.homebranch each item should have 995 $c dépositaire permanent, items.holdingbranch even if the branch codes are the same for both.
00:23 ftherese so both 995$b and $c need to have the branch/library code in them?
00:23 thd ftherese: One of the first tasks is to define the Library branches and branch codes which can be only one main library but an important step.
00:23 chris hugo_: thats the right starting point, and go for stable (lenny)
00:23 thd ftherese: yes
00:23 hugo_ (Debian is new to me too - I use Mac OS X day to day
00:24 thd ftherese: Home : Administration : Libraries and Groups is the path for defining libraries and their associated codes.
00:25 ftherese right... I've done that once before
00:25 ftherese what about pages?
00:26 thd ftherese: 215 is for physical description such as number of pages or number of volumes in a set.
00:30 hugo_ I'd like to get the install started tonight. I notice that the link here http://kohaindia.org/debian-lenny/ says to download the DVD's. If instead I follow this link http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst and do the net install, am I starting off on the wrong foot?
00:30 chris nope
00:30 thd ftherese: The introduction to MARC cataloguing at http://libraries.idaho.gov/page/able is very easy but it is MARC 21 based.
00:31 chris if you have a decent net connection, the net install is fine
00:31 thd ftherese: You would need to find the UNIMARC equivalent.
00:31 hugo_ Cool - thank you.
00:33 thd ftherese: I have a bibliography for learning library cataloguing and classification at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:standards:cataloguing_classification:bibliography
00:33 thd ftherese: Unfortunately, I have not included any UNIMARC material.
00:33 ftherese :(
00:34 ftherese not your fault
00:34 thd ftherese: I have poor access to UNIMARC material in the US except mostly for what is available electronically.
00:35 ftherese no worries
00:35 ftherese you are being a big help
00:36 mason hugo_ , get a debian koha running 1st, then attempt your OSX install..
00:36 thd ftherese: I only know of the very complete UNIMARC texts. not the friendly tutorials
00:36 ftherese ok our call number (cotation) system looks like this:
00:37 ftherese A - ## - AAA - ## -- *
00:37 thd ftherese: If you ask on the French Koha mailing list, I suspect that some people could direct you to a helpful guides for UNIMARC.
00:37 ftherese I've got to split that up into the options they have
00:37 thd ftherese: Why would you split it?
00:38 ftherese it is already split up
00:38 ftherese I could just put them all as 852$j
00:38 thd ftherese: Then you merely need to combine it into a single string
00:39 hugo_ yes - that my plan mason - I just want to get it running - see that I can do it.
00:39 thd ftherese: 852 is not supported in Koha for items management.
00:39 mason if you have problems with your debian install, everyone can help you,
00:39 hugo_ mason: thank you. Downloading netinstall of Debian now
00:39 mason then use your working debian install to help set up your OSX koha
00:40 thd ftherese: one day in the future it will be but for now we have 995 for Koha UNIMARC holdings default and 952 for Koha MARC 21 holdings default.
00:41 mason i got my OSX 10.4 running the latest dev version of koha3 only 2 weeks ago.. , it took *lots* of experimenting
00:41 thd ftherese: Use 995 $k which is defined for items.itemcallnumber .
00:43 thd ftherese: You could populate 852 but unless you modify the Koha MARC bibliographic frameworks to use the field in the record editor, anything which you add to 852 will be lost upon editing the record with the internal Koha record editor..
00:44 hugo_ mason: I was trying on 10.5 just about all summer
00:44 thd ftherese: That is a very important point to know what is defined as appearing in the record editor including which subfields within a field
00:46 thd ftherese: You can change the behaviour but so that something will appear but if you do not you will loose the data stored in the subfield for any subfield which does not appear in the record editor.
00:47 chris_n2 mason++
00:47 * chris_n2 considers entering the Google Lunar X PRIZE
00:47 thd ftherese: There are only a few hidden ID fields which are an exception to the risk of losing data if you do not set the frameworks properly.
00:47 chris_n2 and writing the software in perl... :-S
00:48 thd ftherese: The MARC 21 and English UNIMARC frameworks are already set up to preserve data which you ad for what is defined in those frameworks.
00:49 thd ftherese: The English UNIMARC framework is however not well tested to my knowledge and I only partially edited someone else's initial work on that framework.
00:50 brendan ha thanks chris_n2
00:50 brendan needed a moment of distraction and that is perfect
00:50 chris_n2 brendan: $30 million is very tempting...
00:50 brendan yup
00:51 brendan think I have an new company mission :)
00:51 chris_n2 hehe
00:51 brendan build robot send to space -- sound good
00:54 thd ftherese: There is a table for possible values for hidden in the popup help linked from the '?' help link in the upper right corner of the subfields editor in the bibliographic frameworks editor.
00:59 thd ftherese: Using the 'hidden' values for the bibliographic frameworks and other values for subfields, you can control how the record editor functions.
01:00 ftherese ok... I'll take a look at that... Right now I am writing a function to concatenate my call numbers
01:00 thd brendan: Who is offering the $30 million?
01:01 brendan thd: http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/
01:01 thd brendan: Oh yes, most participants are spending far more than that to compete.
01:02 thd brendan: The robot part confused me about which contest it was.
01:02 chris_n2 ok brendan... the registration is a mere $30K
01:03 chris_n2 after Jan 1, 2010, it jumps to $50K
01:03 * chris_n2 's wallet is smoking :-)
01:04 brendan more fun to watch :)
01:04 thd brendan: There are much less expensive contests with large prizes
01:04 thd brendan: There are also much larger prizes.
01:05 brendan cool -- enjoyed looking at the site -- was never serious :)
01:05 thd brendan: Solve the carbon sequestration problem and Richard Branson will give you a billion or some such sum.
01:05 chris_n2 back to reality now :-P
01:06 brendan yeah -- my wife is always interested in some of the "open questions" in mathematics
01:07 brendan with the last one solved by a recloose in Russian, who never collected the prize
01:08 * thd is off to perform his civic duty
01:08 * chris_n2 participates in the Mersenne prime search (http://mersenne.org)
01:10 chris_n2 there's a cool $150K for the first prime with at least 10,000,000 digits
01:10 chris_n2 or at least a part thereof
01:23 brendan cya all in a bit #koha
01:30 chris_n2 does this '__PACKAGE__->foo_class('Package::foo');' make foo class a part of the __PACKAGE__ class?
01:44 brendan evening #koha
02:23 brendan hi Jo
02:24 Jo hi Brendan
02:24 Jo afternoon all
02:24 Jo Brendan: want to see an example of Koha drawing in results from Kete: http://opac.koha.catalystdemo.net.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=maori+battalion
02:25 brendan cool
02:25 brendan I was looking at your kete earlier
02:25 brendan enjoying the artwork of wendy
02:25 Jo it is nice
02:25 Jo a real treasure
02:25 brendan really cool
02:27 brendan I also have fun looking at your site -- I seem to learn something everytime (that means a good site in my mind)
02:28 Jo hehe
02:29 Jo i have been using kete as a consultation tool too - on visioning libraries of the future: http://kete.library.org.nz/site/topics/show/76-horowhenua-library-services-2030
02:29 brendan cool - i will read about it
02:30 Jo so using it to gather up research around the topic which i want to keep on hand and share, and discuss. the pest analysis is being carried out among a bunch of us - the wiki side of kete has not really been explored much by us yet.
02:30 * chris_n2 greets gmcharlt
02:31 Jo still working out how to maximise the power of kete
03:21 Amit hi chris, brendan
03:21 Amit good morning #koha
03:25 chris_n2 g'morning Amit... g'night #koha
03:25 brendan hi Amit
03:31 Jo hi amit
04:16 SelfishMan Is it just me or are people multiplying in ihere?
05:14 brendan later all
05:15 brendan @later tell brendan - you got some things to remember
05:15 munin brendan: The operation succeeded.
05:15 brendan cya all later
06:32 nicomo bonjour koha
06:48 Ropuch Good morning
06:50 |Lupin| good day / eening all
07:49 |Lupin| chris_n: ahi
07:49 |Lupin| oops
07:49 |Lupin| chris: around ?
07:54 hdl_laptop hi
07:54 hdl_laptop |Lupin|:
08:01 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ?
08:01 hdl_laptop was just to say hi
08:03 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ok, sorry
08:10 kf good morning all
08:14 |Lupin| guten morgen kf
08:16 ftherese morning :)
08:22 |Lupin| hi ftherese
08:26 thd ftherese: I had forgotten that the recent UNIMARC documentation linked from BNF has no helpful explanation nor examples.
08:26 ftherese that's ok
08:27 thd ftherese: You should check the old UNIMARC concise bibliographic manual, http://archive.ifla.org/VI/3/p1996-1/sec-uni.htm
08:27 ftherese I am now dealing with another problem... I think that the MarcEdit must have limit as to how many lines it can handle per file that it must translate
08:27 thd ftherese: 225 and not 410 is the primary series field in UNIMARC.
08:28 ftherese It seems that the logic there is to use the lower number whenever possible
08:29 thd ftherese: I had never thought about that but you may have found a good rule
08:30 thd ftherese: 410 is for the authority controlled name of a series if the form transcribed from the work being catalogued does not use the standard series name.
08:34 thd ftherese: Actually, the notes seem to indicate to use both 225 and 410 in all cases except when there is no standardised name for the for the series established.
08:42 paul_p @tell owen about: sometimes misses the ability in 2.x to search a specific MARC field...but wouldn't give up Zebra to get it back
08:42 munin paul_p: Error: I haven't seen owen, I'll let you do the telling.
09:36 amadan Need help, installed koha but the search engine seems not to bring up any items stored in oha
09:36 amadan koha not oha
09:37 kf amadan: have you installed koha with zebra?
09:37 amadan does anyone know where i can get training on koha either online on face to face?
09:37 amadan yes i have
09:38 amadan i installed koha with zebra
09:38 kf amadan: you probably need to index your data and zebrasrv must be running
09:38 amadan any pointers to that?
09:39 kf which os are u using?
09:39 amadan I mean how do i do that?
09:39 amadan fedora 10
09:40 kf I have only done it on my test laptop and I am not using cronjobs there... perhaps someone else can help out?
09:41 amadan u can share your experience
09:41 amadan perhaps might help
09:42 kf I think it was explained in one of the installation manuals for ubuntu. hm.
09:43 amadan u hv the link
09:43 kf you must reindex your records with a cronjob every x minutes - rebuild_zebra.pl and zebrasrv must be running
09:45 kf perhaps this will help: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=koha_3_install_guide_ubuntu_hardy
09:45 amadan thks man
09:50 nicomo http://pepys.biblibre.com/dol_cvs/dolibarr_2_4/htdocs/soc.php?socid=116
09:50 nicomo sorry, wrong channel
09:51 hdl_laptop chris around ?
09:53 amadan no worries
10:31 Jpr hey all, I have a question on Zebra character sets in Koha:
10:33 Jpr in the /etc/koha/zebradb there are various .chr files (zebra character set files), and I'm not sure which one applies to searches in Koha:
10:34 Jpr is it word-phrase-utf.chr that is in /etc/koha/zebradb/etc or one of the sort-string-utf.chr in ...zebradb/lang_defs/...
10:34 Jpr ?
10:45 hdl_laptop sort applies to sorting
10:46 hdl_laptop and word to query and indexing
10:54 |Lupin| hdl_laptop or fredericd: for a field not to be indexed by zebra, is it enough to comment it in records.abs, or is there something else to take care of ?
10:55 hdl_laptop it is enough.
10:55 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ok, thanks
11:20 |Lupin| isn't there a news system somewhere in Koha ?
11:20 |Lupin| so that librarians can post news to the OPAC... ?
11:24 hdl_laptop |Lupin|: yes there is.
11:24 hdl_laptop It is in Tools
11:30 thd kf: are you there?
11:32 kf thd: reading your mail right now
11:35 kf thd: I just wondered if the bug is still there, I did some testing for z39.50 with marc21 from our union catalog today, I got a field called LOK, which was (of course) not defined in the framework, but got saved in xml in import_records
11:35 thd kf: yes that was my question for you
11:35 thd kf: how had you been importing data?
11:36 kf thd: I basically finished German translation for bd yesterday, but I set many markers, becaue I have no translation for all those obsolete fields
11:36 thd :)
11:36 audun So I've managed to import 5000 marc records from an msaccess db. Trouble is, none of them contain embeded items. Is there some way to do a bulk item creation?
11:36 thd Real libraries still have records with the obsolete fields
11:37 kf thd: I think we used all of them, first bulk, but also staged because we migrated bibliographic information from union catalog and item information from ms access (creating very basic records, overlayed by union catalog records later)
11:37 kf thd: yes, but I think I will leave them untranslated
11:37 thd audun: start again and add your items
11:38 thd audun: add your items to the bibliographic record set before importing
11:38 thd audun: there is no effective feature that you imagine
11:38 kf audun: thd is right, this should be the easiest way
11:39 thd kf: so you first started with bulkmarcimport.pl ?
11:39 kf thd: I think we need to add all $0 and all $w, and some new fields?
11:39 thd kf: and bulkauthimport.pl ?
11:40 audun thd: So I have to manually add items to each record? woah
11:40 kf thd: yes, and we will use staged marc import now and bulkauthimport to update data weekly from union catalog, nightly once we have an automated solution
11:41 thd kf: I think that if you use the internal Koha record editor to edit your records, you will still loose data for undefined subfields.
11:41 thd kf: The command line scripts are safe for importing.
11:42 thd kf: Using the internal record editor is the big risk.
11:42 kf thd: I will be on vacation for the next 2 days, but I think we should test if the bug is still there
11:42 kf thd: anyway the marc21 frameworks should be updated, but I was not sure how to start with it
11:42 thd kf: the Z39.50 client changed 3 years ago so I had forgotten that the issue is probably fixed for Z39.50.
11:43 thd kf: there is an SQL file or a set of them but I have already done most of the work.
11:44 thd kf: I need to check the items fields for some changes so that the default framework would not necessarily break things.
11:44 kf there are some fields not documented in marc21 I think but used by dnb and union catalogs
11:44 kf 689
11:44 kf schlagwortketten (subject chains? )
11:44 thd kf: Oh yes
11:45 thd kf: We should make a list of those.
11:45 thd kf: Everyone should have them available in all languages for anything major.
11:46 thd kf: I have special fields used by OCLC and RLIN (now part of OCLC) included in the frameworks.
11:46 kf thd: ok, I just wondered if its ok to include them
11:47 thd kf: Definitely.
11:47 kf thd: I will ask my colleague about a list, she is the real export and was involved in "mab2 unification"
11:47 thd kf: It would be good to have a list of sources of documentation for major uses which are not part of the official standard.
11:48 kf thd: im just the one to teach koha - because koha is the first ILS that will use marc21 in our consortia
11:48 kf 689 is on dnb web site I think, but probably only in german
11:49 audun thd: How would I go about adding those items?
11:49 thd kf: Well we should include a link to the website in a note for the frameworks.
11:49 thd audun: Sorry, what format are your items in currently?
11:51 kf thd: I think this is no problem. how to proceed? I can do some testing with staged import / z39.50 next week and find out about 689 and similar fields.
11:51 thd audun: From what automation system are you migrating?
11:51 audun Migrating from an ms access database
11:52 kf thd: what was your source for the work you did on mab2 unification?
11:52 audun using marcedit
11:52 thd kf: I think that Z39.50 is safe now and I merely forgot about the fact.
11:52 kf audun: marc21? you need to add 952 fields, its repeatable, one for each item
11:53 thd kf: The web based import from a file and the internal record editor are the risks.
11:53 thd audun: What is your previous ILS?
11:54 audun kf: Hmm..I have. must have done something wrong. I have mapped the acquisition number from the source db to 952$p
11:54 kf thd: I can test that, but need to finish some other things today, so I can tell you next week
11:55 kf audun: you need a little more, item type, home and holding branch, according to your configuration in Koha
11:56 audun kf: right..so i -do- have to add it manually then
11:56 thd audun: 952 $p is for barcode by default.
11:56 kf audun: I think you can use marcedit, when you already have fields for accession number
11:58 thd kf: my source for MAB2 unification was merely the Library of Congress update to MARC 21.
11:58 kf audun: did you use bulkimport or staged import? you can reimport your data with staged import, if you have a good matchkey, just adding the items and leave the records as they are
11:58 audun Used staged import
11:58 thd kf: Library of Congress is the official maintenance agency for MARC 21.
12:03 kf hm lunch time now - colleagues are waiting. will be back in about half an hour.
12:08 thd kf: http://www.loc.gov/cds/PDFdownloads/marc/index.html
12:11 thd audun: whether you can reimport without purging your records in Koha or not, you would still not to create items fields within the bibliographic record for each item.
12:11 thd audun: Are you using MARC 21?
12:12 thd audun: Are you using NORMARC or BSMARC?
12:12 audun marc21
12:13 thd audun: So if MARC 21 then create items with repeated 952 fields in the bibliographic records for each item in the bibliographic record.
12:14 audun hmm..thanks. I'll give it a try
12:15 thd audun: Match your data to the values for 952 described in http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=blob;f=installer/data/mysql/en/marcflavour/marc21/mandatory/marc21_framework_DEFAULT.sql
12:16 thd audun: Be certain to populate 952 $a and $b with a code for the library or branch.
12:21 audun well, as that data does not exist yet, I suppose I have to add it to the source db before using marcedit
12:30 audun thd: or is there some clever way to avoid having to do that?
12:38 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: re:news: thanks
12:38 |Lupin| hi Jane
12:38 jwagner Good morning |Lupin|
12:39 audun nevermind, thd. Found it :)
12:56 jdavidb hello, #koha
13:00 |Lupin| hi jdavidb
13:17 chris_n g'morning #koha
13:39 chris_n your up early brendan
13:39 chris_n hi owen
13:39 brendan morning
13:39 brendan just got woken up by some weird noises outside
13:39 brendan can't fall back to sleep -- so I'm starting the day :)
13:39 chris_n ouch
13:39 brendan how you doing chris_n
13:40 chris_n great after I got the first cup of coffee down :-)
13:40 brendan ah... good reminder
13:40 * chris_n lets his dog run interference on outside noises
13:40 * brendan off to go make some coffee
13:41 * chris_n hands brendan some fresh grind
13:50 amadan where can i download koha staff client
13:51 * owen__ appears to be multiplying
13:52 Colin There is no separate staff client. Koha is a web based application and you use a browser to access it
13:53 amadan How does a user access it then?
13:53 Colin The staff client is set up on a separte virtual host. By deault port 8080
13:54 Nate good morning #koha!
13:55 amadan Do i have to do another setup for the staff client or it install automatically after the initial install
13:56 amadan sorry i'm a newbie
14:02 amadan Does anyone know where i can get training on koha administratio and installation?
14:03 chris_n amadan: there are quite a few companies which provide services such as training, etc. for Koha
14:05 amadan anyone in mind? I'll really prefer if it was online
14:08 chris_n check out http://koha.org/support/pay-for-support (fwiw, I would not base any aspect of my decision on the order of the list)
14:09 amadan kool thks man
14:11 kf amadan: and the list is not complete
14:12 amadan well, i live in Ghana trying to install koha for my uni
14:13 amadan its installed but i have some hitches
14:13 hdl_laptop amadan: some ppl installed Koha in Mali
14:13 amadan really?
14:13 amadan any links
14:16 hdl_laptop No. But I know the person who did it.
14:16 hdl_laptop I could put you in contact with them...
14:16 hdl_laptop (I trained him in English, so he should be able to give some hints ;) )
14:17 amadan gr8 stuff will be grateful so much
14:17 amadan gr8 stuff man
14:18 chris_n amadan: are you near Accra?
14:18 amadan am in Accra
14:18 amadan been here b4
14:19 * chris_n has a friend about an hour or so out of Accra
14:19 amadan i c
14:20 chris_n I hope to visit sometime
14:20 amadan ur welcome anytime
14:22 amadan hdl, how about the link
14:26 amadan with Mali
14:29 amadan O:-)
14:32 amadan or alternatively you can redo the training with me;-)
14:37 hdl_laptop amadan: see private message
14:46 * chris_n wonders if brendan found the coffee pot
14:46 brendan I made two espresso shots
14:46 * brendan is flying while typing
14:46 chris_n hehe
14:46 chris_n espresso++
14:47 brendan espresso++
14:47 chris_n @karma expresso
14:47 munin chris_n: expresso has neutral karma.
14:47 chris_n wow
14:47 chris_n opps
14:47 chris_n @karma espresso
14:47 munin chris_n: Karma for "espresso" has been increased 2 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 2.
14:47 brendan :)
14:47 chris_n hi Nate
14:47 brendan wb Nater
14:48 Nate hi everyone
14:48 chris_n ok, back to patroncard stuff
14:48 jwagner Question about indexing and matching rules -- I keep coming back to this every so often, but haven't found a good solution yet. If the ISBN or whatever field isn't exactly identical, a MARC import doesn't find the match. For example, ISBNs of 9780515147001 (pbk.) and 9780515147001 ; (note pbk and extra semicolon respectively). Isn't there any way to structure the indexes or the rules to make these match?
14:48 jwagner I tried some tweaking of the 020 index, but haven't been successful yet.
14:54 chris_n jwagner: perhaps the zebra syntax has something similar to sql 'like' rather than '='?
14:55 jwagner I'm looking at the ImportBatch.pm file, which is where the matching seems to take place, with that possibility in mind, but so far I haven't deciphered the code enough to see if that's possible.
14:55 * chris_n takes a quick look
14:55 jwagner I'm looking at the GetImportRecordMatches function, I think.
14:57 hdl chris_n it has : you can use rtrn and ltrn for that.
14:57 chris_n at that point it appears that the matching is done
14:57 chris_n tnx hdl
14:58 jwagner There are a couple of lines back in tools/manage-marc-import.pl that might be the point -- $new_matcher_id eq $current_matcher_id
14:58 chris_n jwagner: is this an import operation?
14:59 jwagner Yes -- frequent cases where a MARC import doesn't match an existing record, and the ISBNs aren't absolutely identical (i.e., extra characters in the ISBN).
14:59 chris_n ahh
15:00 jwagner I've poked at this at intervals for months, & never found a good solution. But there has to be a way to do it properly (she said optimistically).
15:04 schuster jwagner - are you running 3.2?
15:04 schuster plano ISD sponsored some work on ISBN matching/loading that gmcharlt put together...
15:05 jwagner schuster, different systems at different levels of 3.01.00.0xx
15:05 schuster He had some type of algorithm that stripped "extra" characters when matching but left the characters on the MARC existing and incoming.
15:05 jwagner That sounds like what I need.
15:05 schuster I don't know if the ISBN matching rules were part of the "patch" release or the 3.2 release.
15:05 chris_n a regex in the proper place would work
15:05 schuster We have not had issues since we did this development.
15:06 jwagner chris_n, a regex such as stripping out everything that's not numeric?
15:07 chris_n jwanger: right
15:08 jwagner schuster, do you know if that feature is backported for 3.01, or only in 3.2?
15:08 schuster Sorry you need to check with gmcharlt
15:09 jwagner OK, thanks. gmcharlt, you online?
15:11 chris_n jwanger: BatchFindBibDuplicates may be your function
15:12 jwagner chris_n, that looks like the right place.
15:13 chris_n then get_matches in Matcher.pm
15:13 chris_n line 654
15:15 chris_n perhaps in the first foreach loop
15:15 chris_n it appears to build the query that determines matches
15:16 chris_n it may be in that query that the filter could be adjusted (but I'm not sure at all as this is code I'm not familiar with)
15:17 chris_n it calls SimpleSearch which i seem to recall might be a bit hackish
15:17 chris_n anyhow, gmcharlt would know
15:18 gmcharlt jwagner: the patches are out there and will be in 3.2
15:18 gmcharlt the basic approach is to normalize the ISBN into both the ISBN-10 and ISBN-13 forms, then store them in a subfield in the 942 for indexing
15:18 jwagner gmcharlt, thanks -- is there an ID number/date for the patch file?
15:19 gmcharlt I'll have to look it up - doing other stuff atm
15:19 jwagner Not a problem -- whenever you get a chance. Thanks much!
15:20 chris_n jwagner: http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=commit;h=afe642bc5233bb316537558351bc26e49bff7a9c
15:20 chris_n wow... fixed over two years ago
15:21 gmcharlt that only does part of it
15:21 |Lupin| pls I need some help to add a title to a list
15:21 |Lupin| my librarian tells me that when she's on a record and uses the add to list button
15:22 |Lupin| it proposes her to create a new list and there seems to be no option to add to an existing list
15:22 |Lupin| I tried with lynx and couln't figure out what to do to add to an existing list... can someone please help ?
15:23 chris_n bug 1499
15:23 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1499 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, RESOLVED FIXED, add bilbio fails during dupe check if ISBN (020$a) has parentheses
15:23 wizzyrea |Lupin| hmm... let me go look
15:24 |Lupin| wizzyrea: thanks !
15:24 owen Hi Melanie
15:25 |Lupin| hello Melanie
15:29 rhcl where is Southiana? Even Google can't google it.
15:29 wizzyrea sorry |lupin| I am always getting off track
15:29 wizzyrea hi melanie
15:29 wizzyrea I'm going to look right now
15:29 owen rhcl: I wondered the same thing
15:29 Melanie Hi Owen.
15:30 |Lupin| wizzyrea: np ! I'm too happy that you accept to look to raise any complaint !
15:30 wizzyrea |Lupin| there is a dropdown at the top that says "select existing list"
15:31 wizzyrea when you get in that pop-up window
15:32 wizzyrea I can send a screenshot for your librarian if you like
15:32 wizzyrea it may not work if say, she doesn't have permissions to do lists?
15:33 |Lupin| wizzyrea: I think she has...
15:34 wizzyrea odd, it appears to be possible on my install, to add an item to an existing list
15:36 rhcl OK, looks like Southiana may be India - Mainpur
15:39 owen |Lupin|: I was able to successfully add items to a list in lynx
15:40 wizzyrea I was too :/
15:40 wizzyrea er
15:41 wizzyrea not in lynx, but saw the dropdown
15:42 ftherese I am importing records for the first time into koha from a marc file... one of the options was "check for embedded item record data?" how do I get more information on this?
15:42 ftherese like on how it works
15:46 wizzyrea the manual might have something about it, nengard isn't here, let me go see if i can find the section in the manual
15:47 wizzyrea http://koha.org/documentation/manual/3.0/tools/stage-marc-records-for-import
15:48 wizzyrea doesn't say a lot, but my guess is that it looks for 952 fields
15:48 ftherese so if I have a database full of book ID numbers
15:49 wizzyrea like, barcodes?
15:49 ftherese right
15:49 ftherese barcode number
15:49 ftherese and the barcode number itself refers to an individual book
15:50 ftherese and it has another number that refers to its information card (in another database)
15:50 wizzyrea wow
15:50 wizzyrea yea
15:50 ftherese so I need to connect the items (based on their barcode number)
15:50 ftherese to their information card
15:51 ftherese which is their "info card #"
15:51 ftherese I have nearly imported all the information cards
15:51 wizzyrea if I'm understanding correctly, you could use marcedit to map the bib to the item, but that would be a feat of data compilation that I probably wouldn't have much luck helping you with
15:52 wizzyrea :(
15:54 ftherese ok... so if I used MarcEdit, and assigned some tag 8xx$a to all the "info card #"
15:54 ftherese then how would I connect the barcode numbers to their respective info card #?
15:55 * wizzyrea is like a fish gasping for water while trapped on the beach
15:55 wizzyrea no clue, sorry
15:57 ftherese could I just import a second marc file for the items?
16:13 ftherese thd: are you around?
16:15 |Lupin| Anyone knows how to pass login and password to a Koha scipt while running it from the command-line, please ?
16:21 jwagner |Lupin|, which script & for what reason?
16:22 slef |Lupin|: I think you get into managing the CGISESSID cookie. Probably easier to script running it through the webserver.
16:22 |Lupin| jwagner: the problem is that when our librarian tries to add something to a virtual shelf, the existing ones are not proposed
16:23 |Lupin| jwagner: however, she is the owner of the shelves, she has _all_ the permissions set, including super librarian
16:24 |Lupin| slef: I don't know how to debug a script that has been ran by apache... is that possible ? If it is I'm gonna be very interested !
16:25 schuster ftherese - embedded information on the marc is in the 952 tag
16:25 ftherese I am using unimarc
16:25 ftherese sorry
16:26 schuster doesn't matter on items. You would need a match point to load the items into the database from your MARC records already in Koha.
16:26 slef |Lupin|: debug info is in the koha-error_log if the ErrorLog and koha debug preferences are right, but you can't easily run it through the perl debugger, if that's what you mean.
16:27 schuster Is the information card # on the MARC someplace?
16:27 ftherese I want my match point to be a number that I can put into the marc
16:28 |Lupin| slef: it's what I meant, yes
16:28 |Lupin| slef: but I may have found something weird...
16:28 |Lupin| at lien 119 of virtualshelves/addbybiblionumber.pl
16:29 |Lupin| there is a variable which is re-declared
16:29 slef |Lupin|: you can login and then give the CGISESSID cookie extracted from your browser on the command-line but I forget exactly how.
16:29 ftherese I already have an ID number that corresponds between the item information and the items themselves
16:29 slef I'd have to look it up and I'm busy, sorry :-/
16:29 |Lupin| and I'm wondering whether this line doesn't distroy the prevous content of the variable...
16:29 ftherese I just need to know what field I can put that number in
16:30 |Lupin| ftherese: which number do you try to store in a unimarc field ?
16:30 ftherese it is a key
16:30 ftherese an index number
16:31 ftherese that has no importance or significance other than it is what the items and their information card have in common
16:31 ftherese and it is how I can link the two
16:32 ftherese for example
16:32 ftherese I know that the book registered with 65537 has BibID=1000293845
16:33 ftherese and if I look up the BibID on my information database I know the title, author, cotation, etc.
16:33 ftherese since we have multiple copies of the same book
16:34 ftherese this actually does help... but I am trying to leave this system behind as well, so it is important only for the sake of transition
16:35 |Lupin| ftherese: are you talking about itemnumber field in Koha ?
16:35 ftherese I am not sure... I am brand new to the process
16:35 ftherese item number refers to information or to concrete objects?
16:36 ftherese BibID is the reference to an abstract piece of information
16:36 ftherese in MY old database
16:37 |Lupin| ftherese: item number : yo have one by physical book. So if for instance for one given book you have sevral copies of it, each copy will have its own itemnumber which is stored in 995$9 in Unimarc
16:37 |Lupin| ftherese: yes, yes
16:38 |Lupin| ftherese: and I think to refer to a copy of a book, for loans and so on, it's the itemnumber which is used.
16:39 ftherese ok... that is helpful... now how do I take a database full of item numbers
16:39 ftherese whose only connection to their information is a number
16:39 ftherese that is also found in the abstract information database
16:40 |Lupin| ftherese: I think you have to proceed in several steps
16:40 ftherese ok
16:41 |Lupin| ftherese: your concern is that you want to migrate the loan historiy from your old system in Koha, right ?
16:41 ftherese no
16:41 ftherese no loan history
16:41 |Lupin| ok
16:41 ftherese my concern is... I don't want to have to relabel all my books
16:41 |Lupin| ftherese: so what exactly is it that you want to migrate ?
16:41 ftherese which already have an item number on them
16:42 ftherese but that item number is not directly present in the main database
16:42 |Lupin| ftherese: aaaaah...
16:42 ftherese I need to connect the items to the main database
16:42 |Lupin| ftherese: is this number a kind of barcode ?
16:42 ftherese basically yes
16:43 |Lupin| ftherese: ell so you could first import your MARC records and during the record you would keep track of the mapping between your old numbers (those who identify records) and those assigned by Koha
16:44 |Lupin| ftherese: and then once it's done you could write a script that goes over your aold db and Koha's db and adds your numbers as barcodes ?
16:46 ftherese ok... that's fine
16:46 ftherese so what could I use as a 8xx$x for my old identity record number?
16:46 ftherese numbers.
16:48 |Lupin| ftherese: that I don' know, I'm really not a MARC specialist
16:48 |Lupin| ftherese: perhaps use something in the 9xx block ?
16:50 kf bye #koha
16:51 Jpr hey, I'm curious if anyone knows whether it is possible to do a search through 'opac-authorities-home.pl' in the address bar of a browser, the way it is for opac-search.pl
16:52 ftherese now if I map my old BibID number to, say 955$z, could I then make a separate marc file with all my barcode numbers and also put a reference to 955$z with the old BibID?
16:52 Jpr where you follow opac-search.pl with a question mark and then various search terms (like you can see in the address bar after doing a normal or advanced search)
16:52 ftherese then import that seperately
16:53 ftherese would it cause the items to correspond to the information contained in the catalogue?
16:54 owen Jpr: does the result of your normal authorities search not result in a URL like that?
16:54 Jpr exactly
16:54 * owen rarely works with authorities
16:54 Jpr it remains simply 'cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl'
16:54 owen Jpr: Do you have a publicly-accessible OPAC to demonstrate?
16:54 Jpr no, it's in-house only
16:55 Jpr I also have to admit that we haven't updated from 3.0.1, and this could be something that's been corrected in one of the more recent releases
16:58 |Lupin| ftherese: I'm not sure but I'd say you really have to script and to add the info progressively to the marc records tat have been previously imported
16:59 |Lupin| ftherese: I have to go now, can't help more, sorry
16:59 owen Jpr: It looks like the authorities search form changed from "method=POST" to "method=GET" on 2009-04-18
16:59 ftherese that's ok... thanks Lupin
16:59 |Lupin| np, sorry I couldn'thelp more ftherese
16:59 |Lupin| till soon all, bye
17:00 Jpr owen: that is to say...?
17:00 owen Jpr: I would think that would mean you'd have the fix. Maybe I've got my version numbers mixed up.
17:01 owen If you're self-hosted and have access to the Koha files you could modify the template
17:01 wizzyrea hmm, this is interesting
17:01 Jpr ack, I don't think we've got it, as we haven't updated since installation at the beginning of January
17:01 wizzyrea I just got a question based on this statement: Since Koha treats circ status information in a non-Z standard way (they put it in a separate field apart from the call number, rather than in a subfield in the same field), the only time we can route requests around Koha libraries is when the item is checked out and has a due date. Any other statuses, such as Lost, Missing, On Order, etc. don't get transferred.
17:02 wizzyrea is that true, is koha really not z-standard compliant?
17:03 Jpr owen: in short, what you're saying is that I could more or less apply that patch to my own cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl in order to then be able to interact with opac-authorities-home in the aforementioned manner? (out of breath)
17:03 owen Yes, I believe so. You'd be modifying opac-authorities-home.tmpl. That's the template, not the script.
17:04 owen Jpr: You'd change line 12 from "<form name="f" action="/cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl" method="post">"
17:04 owen ...to: <form name="f" action="/cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl" method="get">
17:04 sekjal wizzyrea: I was not aware of this, but it makes sense. the 'tatus' of an item is kept in many different fields
17:04 sekjal s/'tatus'/'status'/
17:05 Jpr owen: thank you very, very much
17:05 sekjal it seems to me it would make sense to just have a single "status" field which points to a user-configurable table
17:06 sekjal we could then create what statuses we want, on a per library basis, and apply logic to them to give them meaning (i.e. LOST items cannot be checked out and do not show up in search, ORDERED items can have holds placed on them, etc.)
17:07 sekjal it'd be easy enough to ship Koha with some pre-created statuses, then let the library add/modify/delete as they like
17:08 wizzyrea sekjal, I like that idea
17:09 wizzyrea how difficult of a job, do you think, that would be
17:09 sekjal there are current 6 separate subfields in 952 for status information
17:09 wizzyrea ew
17:09 sekjal wizzyrea: it would probably be a pretty big deal to change
17:10 sekjal no only would the logic attached to each of those 6 statuses need to be routed through the new configurable table, but we'd have to build the update script to convert libraries running the current setup to this new setup
17:10 jdavidb We've got a recent (still in testing) enhancement that does some additional status work; I don't think it does anything much in 952 fields, though.
17:12 sekjal this ties into a conversation yesterday about moving certain kinds of info out of the 952, and keeping it just in the database
17:13 sekjal there are 5 acquisitions-related subfields in 952, as well as 5 circulation-related ones
17:13 Colin the database can handle much of this data better than in a marc subfield
17:13 sekjal having them in the MARC means they can get indexed by Zebra, but is that really a benefit worth the time/cost of large MARC records
17:13 sekjal I cite bug 2453 again
17:13 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2453 critical, P3, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, (very) large biblio/item handling
17:15 wizzyrea hm, interesting
17:16 sekjal perhaps this and other major revisions to the Koha infrastructure are best saved for Koha 4.0
17:16 wizzyrea :/ yea, maybe
17:16 sekjal I've got some ideas for how to make Koha more consortia/electronic resources friendly, but they involve lots of gut-level changes
17:16 wizzyrea NEKLS might have some money to put towards that
17:16 owen sekjal: If items can't be indexed by Zebra, how do you search by branch, availability, etc.?
17:17 sekjal owen: we'd definitely need some 952 item data in the MARC records that are fed to Zebra, but maybe by reducing it to just the key elements, we can minimize the impact of the bug.
17:17 wizzyrea well, koha really does need a single place for STATUS
17:18 wizzyrea branch etc probably should be left in the 952
17:18 sekjal also, I think there has been talk of pulling the circ-related info out of MARC to speed up circulation
17:18 jdavidb Keyword: *single*. Storing things multiple places is asking for gobs of trouble. (read: Item type, which is in *four* places.)
17:19 owen jdavidb: And one of those places is the back of my car, and you know it's a mess back there.
17:19 sekjal I'd say branch, item type, collection code, call number, and enumeration/vol/copy info is good to keep in the 952
17:19 jdavidb lol owen
17:19 sekjal things we'd want to facet on
17:19 hugo Hello...
17:20 sekjal hi, hugo
17:20 hugo I'm doing my first install of Koha on Debian (after many failed attempts on OS X)
17:20 hugo and am stuck with a few questions.
17:21 hugo I'm following the INSTALL.debian-lenny instructions and reading instructions at http://blog.triumphovermadness.com/2009/05/koha-3-on-debianlenny.html too
17:22 hugo I got a few messages about YAML not being installed... that was the first thing that didn't seem quite right. But I kept on going...
17:22 hugo but got lots of errors when I ran 'make test'
17:23 hugo There were more "yaml' not installed errors... but I've rebooted, and am running make test again to see what I get - ah, just failed again....
17:24 hugo the first error says "Failed test 'use C4::Circulation;'
17:25 hugo followed by can't locate YAML.pl in @INC
17:25 hugo I would use CPAN to install YAML, but the install doc says "only use CPAN for Perl dependencies which are NOT, etc. etc."
17:26 hugo so not sure if that would be wise (using CPAN)
17:26 hugo any help very much appreciated :)
17:28 wizzyrea oh hugo, you turned on the lights and all they all scattered :)
17:28 hugo lol
17:28 hugo well, I've been trying this all summer (on the OS X machine) so a little delay now is not awful.
17:29 hugo And I'm sure I'm much closer that before to getting this working for our little library.
17:29 wizzyrea is this a test or are you planning on using this particular install for production?
17:30 hugo well, I guess it's a test - mainly because I've been given this newer (newish) dell box to run it on, and all I had was a PATA drive, while the machine really takes SATA drives. So I've rigged it to work with the PATA drive just so I can see that I can make it work. Once that's done, I'll go find a SATA drive and do it again.
17:31 hugo make sense?
17:33 Colin hugo: use cpan (although there should be an apt package on debian for it)
17:34 hugo I thought there was an apt package - I tried: apt-get install YAML
17:35 hugo but failed
17:37 Colin try libyaml-perl as the package name
17:40 wizzyrea colin++ that's what I was looking for to suggest
17:40 hugo and should I do this with sudo? Or the regular use is OK?
17:41 hugo ok, since I'm living on the edge here, I used sudo, your suggestion worked, I'm running make test again
17:41 hugo and walking down the drive to get the mail. thanks for the suggestons, I'll see what I've got when I return
17:42 slef so will hugo's computer have caught fire on return?
17:42 * slef flits through, tidying up RFID some more
17:44 chris_n howdy slef
17:45 slef hihi
17:45 * chris_n is ripping out and rewriting the rewrite of labels to implement patroncards atm
17:46 slef rather you than me
17:46 chris_n code litters the desktop
17:47 ftherese ok... I am stuck again
17:48 chris_n I actually finished up the core code for card generation (C and M)last week and am now working it into the interface (V)
17:48 ftherese I got the whole catalog uploaded into koha
17:48 slef chris_n: code always litters my desktop
17:48 ftherese but now I need to know how to get my barcode information in there
17:49 hugo no fire on my return...
17:49 sekjal ftherese: so you've loaded in all the bibliographic records, and now need the item records to be attached? Am I understanding correctly?
17:50 hugo many fewer errors, but still some -
17:51 ftherese yes
17:51 ftherese thati s correct sekjal
17:51 ftherese I know there is a 995$9
17:51 ftherese Unimarc
17:51 pianohacker good morning
17:52 sekjal did you use the Stage MARC Records for Import tool in the Tools area, or bulkmarcimport.pl?
17:52 hugo Failed test '5 of 3 pieces produced' at t/Labels_split_ddcn.t line 30 etc.
17:52 ftherese stage marc records
17:53 ftherese My problem is conceptual... I don't see how to relate my items with the Catalog
17:53 ftherese My old library database used a number to link the two
17:54 ftherese an ID number if you will
17:54 sekjal you can embed the item data in the MARC records that you import. It's the 952 field in MARC21 (and I think in UNIMARC as well, but I'm not sure)
17:54 chris_n hi pianohacker
17:54 ftherese that's what I need to do
17:54 ftherese but I don't know how
17:54 ftherese I am using MarcEdit
17:55 ftherese and I managed to map my previous database through an excel sheet to the marc
17:56 chris_n hugo: what version of koha?
17:56 ftherese but I can't create a table on an excel sheet... or at least I don't know how...
17:56 hugo chris_n:3.00.03
17:57 hugo sorry - 3.00.04
17:57 chris_n hugo: which call number failed?
17:58 slef 3.00.04_final?
17:58 sekjal ftherese: I think I see your problem. You have a variable number of items per biblio record, so mapping them from Excel columns isn't really going to work
17:59 hugo I'm a newbie with this stuff - how would I see which call failed?
17:59 sekjal ftherese: one option would be to have a line in the spreadsheet for each item, rather than just each biblio.
17:59 ftherese oh man...
17:59 ftherese lights go on in the room...
17:59 ftherese thank you sekjal
18:00 ftherese I was just conceptualizing it wrong
18:00 sekjal ftherese: then, on Staging for Import, you'd select your matching rule, and the options to skip adding the biblio if you match, but to still add the item
18:00 hugo looking at the output from the make test, the errors start where it says...
18:00 ftherese start with the concrete and work your way to the abstract
18:00 ftherese I was going the opposite way
18:00 chris_n hugo: it's not a show stopper for you installation, but it would be helpful to file a bug along with a cut and paste of the output from the test at bugs.koha.org
18:01 hugo oh - OK - I assumed it was all me and not a bug at all.
18:01 ftherese perfect sekjal!
18:01 chris_n it most likely means that the lccn splitting algorithm breaks on that particular call number
18:02 sekjal ftherese: you just have to be sure to have a solid matching rule. do you have unique identifiers for each biblio that get mapped to MARC fields?
18:02 chris_n which means it will break for others of the same type (exact same)
18:02 chris_n and so needs to be fixed
18:03 hugo the last line of the make test reads, "make: *** [test_dynamic] Error 255
18:03 ftherese sekjal: no, but I can
18:03 hugo should I just keep going and go on to make install?
18:04 chris_n yup, but please consider filing a bug
18:04 ftherese sekjal: I mean, there is a unique identifier for each biblio, but I dont' know where to map it in MARC
18:04 hugo Oh - I see, maybe this is what you were asking - it says the failed tests in t/Label were 62 64 66 and 68
18:04 hugo I will, for sure. Thanks - and I'll run the install now
18:05 sekjal ftherese: I've had difficulty mapping my own unique identifier into the Koha biblionumber field. You'd probably need to pick a field of your own (for example, 942$9 would probably work)
18:07 ftherese perfect... that's what I needed to know
18:07 ftherese @sekjal thank you!
18:07 munin ftherese: Error: "sekjal" is not a valid command.
18:07 ftherese :sekjal thank you
18:08 sekjal ftherese: good luck!
18:10 * sekjal wonders what kind of command he'd be, if he were valid
18:11 wizzyrea probably a helpful one ;)
18:11 sekjal aww, thanks, wizzyrea. I aspire
18:20 pianohacker munin: (pianohacker [question]) -- attempt to answer question, verbosely, or provide existential angst if no question is given.
18:20 munin pianohacker: Error: "question" is not a valid command.
18:21 jdavidb munin: what?
18:21 munin jdavidb: Error: "what?" is not a valid command.
18:21 jdavidb hehe.
18:22 sekjal munin: aardvark
18:22 munin sekjal: Error: "aardvark" is not a valid command.
18:22 sekjal I find that hard to believe
18:22 pianohacker munin: command
18:22 munin pianohacker: Error: "command" is not a valid command.
18:26 Colin munin: useproprietrysoftware
18:26 munin Colin: Error: "useproprietrysoftware" is not a valid command.
18:27 ftherese I'd like to add a google books interface on koha using javascript... is that possible?
18:27 ftherese everything seems to be in perl
18:27 brendan @wunder 93117
18:27 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 15.1�C (10:22 AM PST on November 04, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 30.02 in 1016.5 hPa (Steady).
18:27 slef ftherese: everything is possible, but some things are difficult or expensive.
18:28 Ropuch Evenening #koha
18:28 sekjal ftherese: short answer, yes. you can overlay arbitrary Javascript on your OPAC from the system preferences
18:28 slef ftherese: there's javascript in the koha-tmpl folder
18:28 ftherese ahhhh great!
18:28 slef sekjal's way is probably simpler if you can
18:29 sekjal ftherese: longer answer: I have no idea how to actually make it work. I imagine some trial and error
18:29 sekjal but at least the mechanics are in place
18:29 ftherese that way... you can do an ajax to google on your book's isbn and get an inline fulltext serchable if it is available
18:30 ftherese I already did some java scripting and ajax stuff with Google Books, so I know the api pretty well
18:31 sekjal ftherese: most excellent! there is a new system preference in 3.1 for searching other sources. It can parse in the title, author or ISBN
18:32 sekjal it replaces the old hardcoded links to WorldCat, Google Scholar and Bookfinder.com
18:33 ftherese have you checked out Google books yet?
18:33 sekjal ftherese: I've looked at it some, but not in depth. I do so little with actual content these days...
18:33 ftherese the best part is you could keep the user on kola and integrate a viewer/fulltext search
18:33 ftherese sorry koha
18:35 sekjal sounds like it would be a great additional feature to be able to offer in Koha. perhaps set it up so it can display in a different tab in the details page... (next to Holdings, Title Notes or Subscriptions)
18:36 ftherese it would be really easy to set up... just a few lines of javascript and some ajax calls
18:36 sekjal easy is good
18:37 brendan http://catalog.my.pacifica.edu/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=4331
18:37 brendan is one version that I hacked together quickly
18:37 brendan but it doesn't match that often
18:38 brendan and I haven't worked on it in little bit -- so it displays on every result
18:38 brendan even if the ISBN can't be found in google -- so it's not correct yet
18:41 sekjal brendan: impressive. sounds like its pretty much there, except for some minor cleanup
18:42 ftherese here is one that I threw together real quick, I am not good at html... but this one only returns results that have some sort of preview:
18:42 ftherese http://sites.google.com/site/bibliothequeproject/
18:43 pianohacker just to confirm, irc meeting in 18 min, right?
18:43 ftherese if you click on one of the books it returns, you get an inline viewer right on the page
18:43 wizzyrea bah, I have to go to another meeting in 18mins
18:44 sekjal ftherese: nice!
18:44 sekjal pianohacker: oh, right. I failed to factor in DST when I made the appointment in my calendar
18:47 wizzyrea oh that's cute ftherese
18:48 ricardo Hi everyone! :)
18:48 sekjal hi, ricardo
18:48 wizzyrea cute in a good way
18:48 ftherese cute is the right word... just a sample of how Google Books can be integrated into any site @wizzyrea
18:49 Ropuch I will sure look into it, my boss likes the google books ;>
18:50 sekjal ftherese++
18:57 cait hi #koha
18:57 slef hi cait
18:57 jdavidb Hi cait! :)
18:58 chris_n hi cait
18:58 davi hi
18:58 cait :)
18:59 pianohacker hi everyone
18:59 wizzyrea afk, hopefully back soon
19:00 gmcharlt good afternoon
19:00 gmcharlt good evening
19:00 gmcharlt good morning
19:00 gmcharlt and good night
19:00 chris_n lol
19:01 gmcharlt welcome to the November 4 meeting of the Koha project
19:01 gmcharlt one sec
19:02 gmcharlt let's start with roll cal
19:02 * gmcharlt - Galen Charlton, Equinox, RM
19:02 Ropuch Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE, Poland
19:02 chris_n Chris Nighswonger, FBC
19:02 cait Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
19:02 magnusenger Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
19:02 davi Davi Diaz, worker for software.coop
19:02 Colin Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe
19:02 slef MJ Ray, member of software.coop
19:03 brendan Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions
19:03 jdavidb J. David Bavousett, PTFS
19:03 rafael Rafael Antonio, Portugal
19:03 sekjal Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries
19:03 collum Garry Collum, Kenton County Public Library, Kentucky
19:03 ricardo Ricardo Dias Marques, Portugal
19:04 gmcharlt ok, cool
19:04 gmcharlt the page for this meeting is
19:04 gmcharlt http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes09nov04
19:04 gmcharlt and the agenda is
19:05 gmcharlt 1.
19:05 gmcharlt Update on Roadmap to 3.2.
19:05 gmcharlt 2.
19:05 gmcharlt Update on Koha 3.0 Roadmap.
19:05 gmcharlt 3.
19:05 gmcharlt Follow-up on actions from General IRC Meeting 7 October 2009.
19:05 gmcharlt 4.
19:05 gmcharlt Agree times of next meetings.
19:05 gmcharlt before we can started, can I impose on slef or somebody else to be notetaker?
19:05 Nate nate curulla bywater solutions
19:06 pianohacker Jesse Weaver, John C. Fremont Library District
19:06 sekjal gmcharlt: I can take notes, if slef passes
19:06 gmcharlt sekjal: thanks, please go ahead
19:06 slef I pass to sekjal due to network instability.
19:06 SelfishMan Blaine Fleming, Livingston-Park County Public Library (mostly)
19:07 dbirmingham David Birmingham, PTFS
19:07 slef (6pm-8pm most nights at the moment :-/ )
19:07 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:08 Melanie Melanie Hedgespeth, Salina, KS Salina Public Library
19:08 gmcharlt so regarding 3.2, I've now gotten confirmation from paul_p and hdl_laptop that they've fixed the DB update issues in their new_acq branch
19:08 gmcharlt that was the main (non-bug) blocker, so I'll pull that in and put out the alpha in the next day or two
19:08 gmcharlt (hey, it's going to be 48-hour long November 4th :/ )
19:09 chris_n heh
19:09 gmcharlt after which the release will be in bugfix mode running up to the RC1 which I hope to get out 3-4 weeks after the alpha
19:09 davi 4 weeks from alpha to release is too short?
19:10 gmcharlt alpha to release *candidate* - I'm not expecting that the translations would be done that quickly
19:10 pianohacker davi: 4 weeks from alpha to release candidate is what I think gmcharlt had in mind
19:10 thd davi: RC1 is still not a release
19:10 davi ack
19:11 thd I will try to have some neglected MARC 21 framework updates in that period including a German translation from kf
19:11 ricardo gmcharlt: I agree with davi. But I guess that's not a big issue: weren't deadlines created to be skipped? ;-)
19:12 gmcharlt regarding 3.0.x, I didn't see hdl_laptop introduce himself, so in case he's not here, he has released 3.0.4
19:12 ricardo hdl++
19:13 gmcharlt indeed, hdl++
19:14 gmcharlt so jumping onwards
19:14 gmcharlt items from last meeting
19:14 gmcharlt the wiki relicensing ballot is still open as far as I can tell - slef, do you have an update on that?
19:15 slef not much
19:15 thd I have an update if slef does not.
19:15 slef thd and myself need to sweep through the yet to votes
19:15 slef thd: go ahead
19:16 thd I have contacted some people who had not voted.
19:16 thd Some have now voted, a couple of others who I can identify I still need to contact.
19:16 thd I will also contact some again.
19:17 thd The vote is quite close to half of the electorate.
19:17 thd Some people may never respond or really be found.
19:17 davi Is it boring vote again and again? Should we keep or allow updating current votes, allowing to just add new people votes?
19:17 slef I also want to analyse what proportion of pages they represent. I suspect having kados||liblime approval would cover lots of them.
19:17 chris apologies for being late
19:18 gmcharlt I'm pretty sure that at least three of the accounts are spam accounts, back when the wiki was World of Warcraft gold-trading central
19:18 slef chris: did you forget to blow on the pie?
19:18 chris heh
19:18 thd :)
19:18 chris naw, tried to get to work before 8, didnt think id make it, so put my apologies on the wiki already
19:18 ricardo If anyone is wondering what's this "wiki relicensing thing", we're talking about this - http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=relicensing
19:18 chris ill take them back off, doesnt look like i missed too much
19:18 pianohacker thd, slef: do you have a set quorum before you consider the issue closed?
19:18 * owen is late too
19:19 slef davi: I don't see much point in closing the vote.
19:19 gmcharlt I'm pretty sure that we've established that a plurarilty of the editors are OK with the relicensing
19:19 gmcharlt the main issue at this point would be if one of those who hasn't voted yet decides to come back and want to keep their content non-GPL
19:19 chris_n don't we really just need a simple majority?
19:19 davi slef, I would agree that voting where not closed allowing new ones at any time, or modification of votes already issued
19:20 slef pianohacker: no. I suspect we'll keep this going until next meeting at least.
19:20 gmcharlt chris_n: I think we have a basis for now stating that *new* content on the wiki will be GPL
19:20 gmcharlt and putting up appropriate notes on the interface
19:20 thd gmcharlt: the election rules called for a majority.
19:20 slef the escape routes are trying to track which pages have "clean" licenses, but I think the recent namespace restructuring may complicate that.
19:21 slef chris_n: a majority of authors or of content?
19:21 gmcharlt but we cannot, ultimately, just relicense existing content w/o the consent of the copyright holder
19:21 thd gmcharlt: I think that we do not quite have a majority.
19:21 slef another escape route is to email all of the "Yet to vote" list with the decision and give them chance to object
19:21 thd gmcharlt: We could under the joint authorship theory of the construction of the wiki.
19:21 slef those on the Yet to vote and email bouncing, I'm not sure what to do with their contributions
19:22 gmcharlt thd: we do have a majority of voters
19:22 slef presumably someone else at katipo could speak for one of them as their employer - maybe one or two others are similar
19:22 chris_n perhaps future licensing should have a "contact-ability" clause in it?
19:22 thd gmcharlt: yes we have no objection from any voters
19:23 gmcharlt obviously, one of the biggest holdouts is kados, and frankly that's the main direction I would expect any challenge to come from
19:23 ricardo gmcharlt: *nod*
19:24 thd I think that if anyone would object we would need to attach a special notice to their content with the CC-BY-NC license.
19:24 gmcharlt yes
19:24 * mason waves...
19:24 slef I'm not comfortable with the joint authorship theory, so I would prefer to track things touched by the "yet to vote" list.
19:24 gmcharlt and perhaps make it incumbent on them to clearly identify the portions of the content that should remain under CC-BY-NC
19:24 slef mason?
19:25 thd legally we could relicense under joint authorship with merely support from significant copyright holders but we should not morally
19:25 slef thd: is it safe even without one significant copyright holder?
19:26 slef s/safe even/worth trying/
19:26 mason hi slef
19:26 thd slef: We should seek legal advice if we are asking about safe
19:26 gmcharlt here's what I propose we do:
19:26 gmcharlt 1. keep the voting period open until the next general meeting
19:26 thd slef: We should probably just pose the question to SFLC in any case.
19:27 gmcharlt 2. after that meeting, plan to update wiki to specify that all new content will fall under the GPL -
19:27 slef thd: any idea of the relative response rates of SFLC and FTF?
19:27 ricardo thd: SLFC = Software Freedom Law Center - http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ Right?
19:27 gmcharlt 3. if necessary, tag any content that's still udner CC-BY-NC
19:27 wizzyrea Liz Rea, NEKLS
19:27 ricardo gmcharlt: Sounds good to me...
19:27 gmcharlt and mark it for replacement - given need to document 3.2, I think we'll have reason to do that anyway
19:27 slef FTF = Freedom Task Force http://fsfe.org/projects/ftf/
19:27 thd slef: They are both probably slow unless you are being sued.
19:27 ricardo wizzyrea: I think you got some *huge* network lag ;-)
19:28 wizzyrea hehe
19:28 wizzyrea sorry I had another meeting >.<
19:28 thd slef: Which is why we should ask now. SFLC has more experience with this particular issue.
19:28 chris_n gmcharlt: +1
19:28 gmcharlt I would like to see if we can get this issue closed, at least for new content, by shortly after the December meeting
19:28 slef gmcharlt: +1
19:29 ricardo Oops... There goes Chris
19:29 slef 4. thd to ask SFLC opinion on joint authorship theory?
19:29 owen Don't panic!
19:29 chris_n owen: lol
19:29 chris_n slef: +1
19:29 gmcharlt slef, thd: +1
19:29 thd gmcharlt: you may have shortened a step
19:30 pianohacker owen: we have 38 more steps before we have to worry about panicking
19:30 thd gmcharlt: We should be able to relicense at least some old content.
19:30 pianohacker +1 on relicensing plan, be nice to get this over with
19:30 thd gmcharlt: I know that many pages have never been edited.
19:30 gmcharlt thd: true any content clearly originating from one of the "yes" voters can be marked as GPL after the voting closed
19:31 thd s/edited/edited by other than the original author/
19:32 chris_n will licensing under GPL clear up the possibility of this sort of question in the future?
19:32 thd chris_n: Which sort of question?
19:32 * chris_n can imagine many people editing and then disappearing over time
19:32 ricardo chris_n: *nod*
19:32 chris_n thd: having to seek out each editor every time there is a copyright question
19:32 slef chris_n: only as long as we keep track of the licensing status.
19:32 gmcharlt chris_n: yes - an implicit part of this would be added a statement to the wiki (on the account creation page, among other places), that any content aded to the wiki should be GPL unless the contributor *explicitly* licenses it otherwise
19:33 davi Will us relicense to "GPL version 3" or "GPL version 3 or later" to avoid have to run again with this troubles when "GPL version 4 be out"?
19:33 gmcharlt I don't know if we've ever decided this, but we could decide to make it stronger and *require* that new content be GPL
19:34 slef davi: I think the proposal is for the same terms as Koha. Check the wording.
19:34 davi ack
19:34 thd chris_n, davi: The or later clause provides flexibility without needing a similar vote.
19:34 davi good
19:34 gmcharlt regarding GPL 2 => GPL 3 or later, yes, we would have to go through this exercise again if we decided to do that, but practically speaking, unless somebody discovers a major flaw with "GPL 2 or later", I don't think it would be necessary
19:34 thd Wikipedia had an easier time because they had an or later clause.
19:34 slef it seems unlikely that any fatal GPL-2 bug will harm wiki text IMO
19:35 * chris_n thinks that both Koha and the wiki and the documentation should be sync'd in licensing
19:35 chris_n if that is possible
19:35 slef chris_n: yes
19:35 davi slef, It would be improvable, but this would be a good time to avoid such risk
19:35 gmcharlt "changing the wiki page license to the GPL version 2 or later terms used by the main Koha download"
19:35 davi chris_n++
19:36 gmcharlt so what the yes voters have assented to is "GPL 2 or later"
19:36 thd slef: the only issue would be quoting GPL 3 code in the wiki and that content can always be marked appropriately and is covered by the or later clause.
19:36 ricardo gmcharlt: OK
19:36 slef thd: yes, so we'd still need to track terms.
19:36 davi Being "GPL 2 or later" it is very easy publish a copy as "GPLv3 or later"
19:37 davi just change the license and go.
19:37 ricardo I have a newbie question (sorry): I thought that works under the GPL are / could be copyrighted (although allowing the right for modifications to others, of course). If this is so, who is the copyright holder, in this case?
19:37 gmcharlt ricardo: ye olde bunch o' people
19:37 ricardo gmcharlt: OK, thanks
19:38 davi thd, GPL v2 is incompatible with GPL v3
19:38 * chris_n wonders about the young ones in the bunch ;-)
19:38 thd davi: yes
19:38 thd davi: However, any special section marked GPL 3 or later could be kept as such.
19:39 gmcharlt chris_n: the bunch is olde, relatively speaking - I'm making no assertions about any of the members of same ;)
19:39 * jdavidb is olde.
19:39 thd davi: we do not have quoting much code in the wiki in any case.
19:39 * pianohacker hands gmcharlt his cane
19:39 richard hi
19:39 davi thd, It is not a problem as all the wiki could be moved from "GPL v2 or later" to "GPL v3 or later" just changing the notice. It is legal.
19:39 * wizzyrea calls pianohacker a whippersnapper
19:39 * gmcharlt tells pianohacker to get off his lawn
19:40 thd davi: That is an advantage, not a problem.
19:40 davi ack
19:40 davi I know
19:40 ricardo Ah! Here's my homonym. Hi richard! :)
19:40 pianohacker bah
19:40 thd davi: That would make this task, much easier if we collectively decided that would be helpful.
19:40 davi ack
19:41 gmcharlt doesn't "GPL2 or later" mean that the recipient has the option to redistribute per GPL2? I don't see how that can turn into GPL3 or later w/o a relicensing vote
19:41 slef davi: legal, but slightly dishonest because the original content is also available under GPL-2.
19:41 slef dishonest is a bit too strong
19:41 davi slef, the original is "GPL v2 or later" not just "GPL v2"
19:41 slef Have I mentioned recently how much I dislike copyright law?
19:41 davi so, no dishonest IMHO
19:42 gmcharlt ok, anyway, I think we have discussed this enough for now - hopefully we get to finalize at least some of this next month
19:42 thd gmcharlt: I think that we could although any old copies in the internet archive would still be GPL 2 or later.
19:42 chris_n we probably have a similar issue with the code itself given the various copyright holders of the various pieces
19:42 davi slef, copyright law being extended in a lot of countries is what has allowed the grow of the Free Software community IMHO
19:43 ricardo chris_n: *nod*
19:43 sekjal are we going to decide to allow other new content to be published in the wiki with other licensing if explicitly requested?
19:43 chrisc well that was annoying
19:43 chris_n wb chrisc
19:43 chris_n and chris
19:43 gmcharlt clones?
19:43 pianohacker looks like it
19:43 chrisc yeah, network went down, and came back up
19:43 chris_n we're multiplying rapidly
19:44 thd We should briefly address sekjal's question.
19:44 ricardo sekjal: I don't think so (just my opinion). Did you have any particular license / case in mind?
19:44 slef sekjal: I think we should, but it should not be usual.
19:44 sekjal ricardo: no, nothing in mind. I just have it noted as an unresolved question
19:44 gmcharlt I think the main case would be republishing content that's under another license that allows distribution
19:44 ricardo chris: stay put, will ya? ;-)
19:44 nengard did the meeting start? I thought it was in 15 min ...
19:44 thd sekjal: we should discourage incompatible license notices appearing in the wiki
19:44 chris_n perhaps "on approval of the community or its reps"?
19:44 chris ill try
19:44 gmcharlt but I agree that it should be an unusual thing
19:45 wizzyrea nengard: daylight savings :(
19:45 thd sekjal: that would defeat the purpose of the wiki.
19:45 nengard oh - well had car trouble and just got hom
19:45 nengard home
19:46 slef chris_n: or just that it may be replaced with something under more friendly terms if possible.
19:46 sekjal I agree that all the content on the wiki should be fully redistributable. Do we want to make that a condition for publishing to the wiki, or just the default (with exceptions available upon request)?
19:46 gmcharlt regarding other action items, the main one left from last meeting was BZ default assignees
19:46 sekjal this could be decided at a later meeting, if appropriate
19:46 ricardo gmcharlt: Huh?
19:46 gmcharlt and at this point we may as well roll it into discussino of 3.4 roles
19:46 gmcharlt BZ = Bugzilla
19:47 ricardo gmcharlt: Ah, OK.
19:47 gmcharlt which I propose to make an agenda item for next meeting
19:47 thd sekjal: we should certainly allow more permissive licensing of sections on request.
19:47 gmcharlt December 2nd is the first Wednesday of December
19:47 gmcharlt and I propose 10:00 UTC+0 as the time, since we've had two general meetings in a row at 19:00 UTC+0
19:47 gmcharlt any objectiosn?
19:47 thd sekjal: However, I doubt the issue of alternative licenses will arise.
19:47 chris_n +1
19:47 wizzyrea so where are we with bugzilla default assignees?
19:48 ricardo thd: My only question with that would be what would be a more permissive licensing -public domain, others? (Is my double use of "would be" here correct? I think it is...)
19:48 davi sekjal, We should care too about all that licenses being compatibles, or just allow only one. so it would be easier use such material to write a book, manual or similar
19:48 thd sekjal: It would mostly be for quoting content of others.
19:49 ricardo davi: *nod*
19:49 thd ricardo: FSF has a list for software licenses and compatibility.
19:49 gmcharlt the other issue is the foundation, but I don't think there's all that much to say about it since it's been only a week since the last foundation-forming meeting
19:49 sekjal so the rule would be all new content is defaulted to GPLv2, with more permissive licenses available on request
19:49 ricardo gmcharlt: Yeah, I had to skip that meeting unfortunately. Will read the transcript, when I get around to it
19:49 davi "GPL v2 or later"
19:49 davi ?
19:50 gmcharlt as a reminder, the next foundation forming meeting is currently scheduled at 19:00 UTC+0 on 3 December 2009
19:50 davi yes, http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=relicensing
19:50 ricardo gmcharlt: Darn, I guess I'll probably also miss that one, then. Oh well...
19:50 nengard no one answered wizzyrea about bugzilla
19:50 nengard was that a point already covered?
19:51 davi Association -or- Foundation?, or is going to Foundation already decided?
19:51 thd sekjal: More permissive would be an option of a contributor. Not the other way around.
19:51 gmcharlt mostly that I think we should defer it and discuss next meeting when we start talking about 3.4 roles
19:51 wizzyrea ah, ok
19:51 gmcharlt of course, anybody who wants to volunteer to wrangle bugs for a particuar module should feel free to do so at any time
19:51 wizzyrea I missed that part sorry gmcharlt
19:51 nengard thanks gmcharlt
19:52 sekjal thd: okay, I think I'm clear. If my notes on the wiki are inaccurate, let me know afterwards and I'll correct
19:52 pianohacker gmcharlt: I've volunteered as a generic bug wrangler; fdemians came up with idea, still trying to get idea of precise meaning
19:52 thd We do have an open question on the next foundation forming meeting
19:53 chris_n thd: the time?
19:53 thd yes time.
19:53 ricardo thd: Who's "we"?
19:53 davi Was the Association options rejected?
19:53 thd Anyone who wants to know when it will be.
19:53 thd davi: Which association option?
19:53 chris davi: not outright, but for the immediate future yes
19:53 slef davi: no, not yet. slopply language on some.
19:54 chris_n 19:00 UTC was set on the condition that there were no objections
19:54 davi ack
19:54 slef davi: first move is to HLT, a trust.
19:54 davi ok ok
19:55 gmcharlt I'd say that if we don't hear objections in the next week or so, we'll run with 19:00 UTC+0 for the foundation meeting
19:55 rafael for me is ok
19:55 chris_n +1
19:55 thd davi: The exact form is undecided. Imprecise language as slef said.
19:55 sekjal so, a cutoff date of, say Nov 15th for objections?
19:55 tajoli +1
19:55 davi ack thd
19:55 ricardo gmcharlt: Fine, by me... I won't be able to attend it, but I don't think that it should be changed because of me
19:56 gmcharlt sekjal: +1
19:56 chris_n +1
19:56 Colin ditto to ricardo's comment
19:56 ricardo sekjal: Sure (+1)
19:56 ricardo Colin: :)
19:56 thd pianohacker++
19:57 thd fdemains++
19:57 * chris_n tries to imagine pianohacker in boots and chaps
19:57 ricardo Question: are we still going to talk about Koha 3.0.x roadmap in this meeting? Or can't we do it because hdl is silent now?
19:58 gmcharlt ricardo: yes, it would depend on hdl unless chris has something to say about 3.0.x
19:58 ricardo (*nod* pianohacker++ fdemians++)
19:58 slef well, does anyone know where the current 3.0.x roadmap is?
19:58 chris i can speak a little to that, there will be a 3.0.5 release in the near future i have to tidy up some translation issues
19:58 chris slef: its only bugfixes from now
19:58 chris there were some missing submit buttons not translated, which 3.0.5 will fix
19:59 tajoli 3.0.5 will have also bugfixes ?
19:59 davi http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:roadmap3.0 ?
19:59 ricardo chris: Any "freeze dates" for 3.0.5 already?
19:59 chris not yet
19:59 pianohacker chris_n: it'll mostly consist of pestering people about bugs that are lacking info; I'm an expert at pestering
19:59 tajoli missing submit buttons not translated is a bug for me
19:59 chris when i update the templates ill call a string freeze
19:59 ricardo chris: OK, thanks for the info
19:59 chris tajoli: yes that is the main fix for 3.0.5
19:59 tajoli OK
20:00 ricardo tajoli: It is, but I believe hdl is submitting patches for correcting that bug
20:00 chris yep, fixed now
20:00 tajoli corret, I see the dix
20:00 chris i just have to update the .po
20:00 chris and then you guys have to translate, and then we are ready
20:00 tajoli dix/fix
20:00 chris i suspect 3.0.5 will be the last 3.0.x release
20:00 nengard i have a question from writing docuemntation - cities and towns asks for city and zip - but not state - how is this data stored - cause on the patron record it's the city, state line that the pull down appears next to.
20:01 ricardo chris: Like I said, I'll probably have to send you an updated Portuguese PO (during this or next week). Will this hurt your plans?
20:01 gmcharlt nengard: hold that thought a second, please
20:01 nengard np
20:01 chris nope that is fine ricardo
20:01 ricardo chris: OK, thanks
20:01 gmcharlt OK, I think we've covered everything for this meeting
20:02 ricardo Question: wouldn't Koha 3.2 development benefit for waiting for some tests & fixes for 3.0.x?
20:02 chris nope
20:02 gmcharlt thanks to all for participating, and we'll meet again on 2 December
20:02 ricardo chris: how so?
20:02 rafael bye
20:02 davi same hours?
20:02 gmcharlt davi: I think we'll be going with 10:00 UTC+0 on the 2nd
20:03 davi ack
20:03 ricardo gmcharlt++
20:03 thd slef: you should update the wiki relicensing ballot to state closing by 2 December.
20:03 nengard sorry all, thought the meeting was over guess I missed the part where we started discussing stuff again - anyway - I have a question now that I think the meeting is over :)
20:03 nengard i have a question from writing docuemntation - cities and towns asks for city and zip - but not state - how is this data stored - cause on the patron record it's the city, state line that the pull down appears next to.
20:03 chris ricardo: the bugs in 3.0.x are specific to it, any 3.2 ones are fixed in master
20:03 chris and ported back to 3.0.x (not the other way)
20:03 chris_n tnx gmcharlt
20:04 chris ricardo: hdl and spent a few nights porting about 300+ patches from master to 3.0.x before 3.0.4
20:04 ricardo chris: Well, that depends on who is doing the tests and where the tests are :)
20:04 danielg daniel grobani here, first IRC experience ever
20:04 ricardo s/where the tests/where the tests *and* bugs
20:04 thd slef: Having people believe that they can still vote with the current shortly after 12 September text is a problem.
20:04 ricardo danielg: Welcome then :)
20:04 chris ricardo: yep if you find any bugs that exist in master, you should patch against master
20:04 chris and note if they also apply in 3.0.x
20:05 chris hiya danielg :)
20:05 ricardo chris: Even if I *don't* have a master setup (code + database) but I do have a 3.0.x setup?
20:05 chris nengard: i have no idea about your question
20:06 chris ricardo: then you could submit it, and say, "this might apply on master also, but i havent tested"
20:06 nengard thanks chris - good to know i'm not alone
20:06 nengard off to play with it a bit
20:06 chris we dont have states or zips so its never been an issue for me :)
20:06 sekjal hey, danielg!
20:06 pianohacker chris: just cities?
20:06 chris yep
20:06 owen nengard: In the past Koha stored everything as "Athens, OH," city+state in the same field.
20:07 pianohacker interesting. hi, danielg
20:07 chris we do have postcodes, no one uses them though
20:07 owen I thought that someone recently added a state field to the table?
20:07 nengard owen and chris - and all - basically the cities, towns is not 100% useful
20:07 ricardo chris: Right, agreed. I'm just wondering if we shouldn't let people test Koha 3.0.x more intensely before moving development efforts to 3.2... but I won't make a fuss about this
20:07 danielg hi to all saying hi to me!
20:07 nengard we need ot make it clear that the city field if for city, state
20:07 chris_n nengard++
20:07 cait owen: country not state
20:07 chris ricardo: development on 3.2 has been going on for a year now ;)
20:07 owen nengard: it works if you populate it with the right data!
20:08 chris ricardo: you are supposed to test it before a stable release not after :-)
20:08 * pianohacker threatens 3.0 with overgrown, beastly sysprefs editor
20:08 nengard grr - okay i'm off to edit the template for the cities/towns page so that it's clear what to add in the form
20:08 chris ie 3.0.x was tested before the 3.0.0 release
20:08 thd chris: does NZ have automated mail handling?
20:08 chris thd: yep
20:08 chris but it also has only 4 million people
20:08 chris_n hi schuster
20:08 chris its not hard to find someone
20:09 schuster David Schuster - Plano ISD
20:09 thd chris: Do you have barcodes printed at the base of envelopes when they arrive?
20:09 schuster Howdy!
20:09 danielg hi schuster
20:09 chris schuster: you missed it .. daylight savings caught you out
20:09 chris thd: some, not most
20:09 ricardo chris: Agreed... But it's hard for me to test 3.0.x branch as it is (to find bugs before they reach 3.0.5 and such). I won't be able to do the testing for both branches, but I guess (and hope!) that other people can do that
20:09 schuster phoey guess I'll read the log.
20:10 danielg same here
20:10 chris thd: i could send a letter, Aunty Dawn, Brunswick Road, Wanganui
20:10 chris it would get there
20:10 magnusenger chris: heh, that sounds a bit like norway ;-)
20:10 chris thd: we also have deregulated mail service
20:11 chris_n deregulation++
20:11 chris_n opps
20:11 chris most people still use NZ post for domestic mail
20:11 thd chris: US Postal Service uses OCR to read envelopes which can interpret CAPTCHA images perfectly.
20:11 chris but i use 'Petes Parcels' a lot
20:11 chris_n thd: is it tesseract based?
20:12 ricardo chris: Which reminds me (forgot to talk about this during the meeting, damn...) - should we have some "Beta" and/or "RC" stage for 3.0.5, before 3.0.5 final (to see if we can attract people that would test it, but don't have / aren't accostumed to git / git snapshots)?
20:12 chris cos frankly, the name is awesome
20:12 * pianohacker thinks we should add all 4 US timezones plus nzst to meeting notices (maybe just the us, it only seems to be us that get caught out)
20:12 nengard bugs reported and one assigned to me - now to remember how to connect via FTP to my local virtual machine ...
20:12 wizzyrea lol chris
20:12 chris ricardo: nope its a bugfix for a stable release
20:12 danielg bye-bye
20:12 chris otoh for 3.2 we will have alphas and betas
20:12 pianohacker bye, danielg, see you at next meeting
20:12 thd chris_n: I have no idea about the basis of the software but their are postal system hackers who test its limits.
20:12 slef pianohacker: I added date -d @123123123 to some notices, but that seems to have stopped
20:13 chris ricardo: your questions are about 1.5 years to late for 3.0.x :-)
20:13 pianohacker slef: that command _is_ very useful, but is somewhat limited to those with access to a linux command line
20:14 slef pianohacker: everyone has access to one of those. There were also "world time" links in some announcements.
20:14 ricardo chris: *nod* It's just that more people are starting to adopt / want to adopt Koha here in Portugal, and I would feel more safe if we could get the "bugfix releases" more tested, that's all
20:14 ftherese ok... always trying to find better ways to use the unimarc classification... koha Field author 200$f should I be using that one?
20:14 chris_n thd: tesseract is the engine google uses (old HP code iirc)
20:14 chris_n thd: supposed to be some of the best and its FOSS
20:15 ricardo ftherese: Yes, for the author mentions, as they appear in the book cover (that's my understanding, at least)
20:15 pianohacker slef: Well, all of the developers, yes. :) I'll just follow up the meeting notices with a quick run-through of times in the US myself
20:15 thd chris_n: Oh yes, I had experimented with that slightly.
20:15 ftherese chris_n wow! They use tesseract?! I compiled that fo use with linux a few years ago
20:15 chris_n http://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/
20:15 ftherese it does work well
20:15 thd chris_n: I wonder how it does with CAPTCHA.
20:15 ftherese plus it is open
20:15 slef pianohacker: why are people in the US less competent at telling the time?
20:15 chris_n thd: not sure
20:15 * pianohacker shrugs
20:16 chris_n slef: lol
20:16 ftherese what about the other authors?
20:16 pianohacker slef: you are a lot closer to gmt than we are
20:16 slef I mean, most countries are in only one timezone.
20:16 ftherese or do they all get 200$f?
20:16 ricardo ftherese: Nope... You should get only one entry in 200$f I think
20:16 pianohacker I think it's mainly DST that screwed people up this time, but...
20:17 slef pianohacker: so? We have to decode US times more than you get to decode UTC.
20:17 ftherese so where do the other ones go?
20:17 ftherese I don't see any koha fields for them?
20:17 tajoli In unimarc 200$f and 200 $g are for all aut
20:17 chris_n ftherese, thd: I run tesseract integrated with xsane and they work great together
20:17 tajoli authors/editors
20:17 ricardo ftherese: http://www.unimarc.info/bibliographic/2.3/en/200
20:17 slef pianohacker: we get the additional fun of "which EST is that?" sometimes.
20:17 pianohacker slef: well, exactly
20:18 chris_n slef: I think some European countries do DST as well
20:18 tajoli BUT as are written in frontpage
20:18 slef pianohacker: European Summer Time, Eastern Standard Time (US) and Eastern Standard Time (AU)
20:18 ricardo chris_n: Sure. Portugal does DST (as do some other countries).
20:18 slef chris_n: I think most of us do at the moment.
20:18 chris no one cares about AU
20:18 ricardo chris: LOL!
20:18 chris_n heh
20:18 thd ftherese: The statement of responsibility in UNIMARC $200 is only for transcribed authorship statements
20:18 slef chris: say that when they're awake
20:18 chris slef: they are probably out practicing bowling underarm
20:19 chris :-)
20:19 pianohacker slef: reminds me of the "world" series
20:19 slef chris: did you see, their rugby team have resorted to playing English club teams?
20:19 chris slef: will probably still lose :)
20:19 ftherese christ_n: I didn't use it with a scanner, I converted old book scans in pdf format to pdm (I think it was ) and It usually did work pretty well, even with french text
20:19 slef chris: hopefully one match :)
20:19 pianohacker us_centric_naming++
20:19 slef pianohacker: and conversely, rumours are that the NFL is going to get a European team.
20:20 pianohacker Hahaha, there's actually people outside the US that care about american football?
20:21 pianohacker that's sad
20:21 davi Australians?
20:22 chris pianohacker: wellington has 2 teams
20:22 ftherese thd: I am looking at the koha to Marc links in the administration section, and I see no other author input blancs other than the 200$f. Why is that?
20:22 chris nzers will play any sport tho
20:22 pianohacker hell, you play cricket
20:22 thd ftherese: That is a mistaken help message left from Koha 1.9
20:23 slef I saw Aussie rules football on tv yesterday. The channel name was something completely unrelated, though, like "Real Estate TV"
20:23 thd ftherese: 200 1#$aThree adventures of Asterix$iAsterix in Switzerland$ftext by Goscinny$gdrawings by Uderzo$gtranslated by Anthea Bell and Derek Hockridge.
20:23 pianohacker brb foodz
20:24 ftherese ahhh
20:25 thd ftherese: 200 $f is for the first statement of responsibility 200 $g is for additional statements of resposibility
20:25 ftherese lol @ 7-- Intellectual Responsibility Block
20:26 thd ftherese: 7XX is for the official name.
20:26 ftherese I hope people know they become intellectually responsible for something when they write it!!!
20:26 ricardo ftherese: LOL!
20:26 ricardo ftherese: 7XX is for linking names to "Authorities"
20:31 ftherese Authorities are much wider than just the dude who wrote the book... I take it... I am looking for just a marc number that works for 1. "the main dude who wrote the book, and who should get the most credit." and then 2. etc. "other dudes who also kinda helped out or something"
20:32 ricardo ftherese: "Authorities are much wider than just the dude who wrote the book" - agreed. They are also used for "Subjects" as well, for example
20:32 ftherese I think I want 200$f and 200$g
20:33 hdl ... anyaone there ?
20:34 hdl chris : I forgot the meeting.
20:34 ricardo ftherese: Yes... You do want those (200$f and 200$g)... but you may also want 7XX (if you want to use "Authorities" for people's names, in order to find that Joseph Ratzinger and Pope Benedict XVI are the one and same person)
20:34 ricardo hdl: LOL! Happens to the best :)
20:35 ftherese ok... thanks ricardo
20:35 ricardo ftherese: You're welcome :)
20:35 wizzyrea hdl: we missed you :)
20:36 hdl I missed you all.
20:36 ricardo ftherese: Using other words -> A record will (almost) always have 200$f filled in. Besides that, it *may* also have some 7XX fields filled in, if you're using Authorities
20:36 hdl really awfully sorry.
20:36 wizzyrea ok, we just had a grant funding board almost deny our grant because they say someone *cough formerly the only us vendor cough* said that community koha wasn't SIP compliant
20:37 owen "almost deny" ?
20:37 wizzyrea yes, we convinced them to take a second look
20:37 wizzyrea because it's working right now
20:37 wizzyrea not sure what they're smoking
20:37 rhcl_away Did you leave any money for us?
20:37 wizzyrea well, are you coming into NExpress?
20:37 ricardo wizzyrea: And they accepted it after that -or- are they still evaluating it?
20:37 wizzyrea ;)
20:38 wizzyrea still evaluating
20:38 owen Is said vendor saying this in reference to LEK?
20:38 rhcl Is that an invitation?
20:38 ricardo wizzyrea: OK, thanks
20:38 wizzyrea they consulted a certain vendor's website, yes
20:38 Colin wizzyrea: any SIP issues feel free to punt them in my direction
20:38 wizzyrea you know, the notorious table of features
20:38 wizzyrea colin: I will remember you said that :)
20:38 * jdavidb thinks of a paraphrase of Mark Twain: There are lies, damn lies, and...
20:39 wizzyrea rhcl: well, actually... you'd have to talk to my boss about that (lol)
20:40 wizzyrea not sure how the money would work out but we like having biggish libraries in our consortium
20:40 owen "Enhanced SIP2" ?
20:40 rhcl BTW, we had an excellent visit in Atchison.
20:40 wizzyrea yea, you know, that NEKLS paid for and is mostly in the project already
20:41 * chris boggles !!!!
20:41 nengard wizzyrea once again sorry you're dealing such stuff :(
20:41 wizzyrea rhcl: oh good
20:41 chris thats stooping even low than usual
20:41 wizzyrea nengard: nothing to be done about it really. I think we set them straight
20:41 wizzyrea so you may see a post to the koha list re: sip2 compliance
20:41 wizzyrea from one of their representatives
20:42 nengard okey dokey
20:42 * slef boggles at the completely unrelated http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/london-mayor-chases-would-be-attackers-on-bike-23846
20:42 wizzyrea I mentioned that I wouldn't personally take any claims from that certain vendor very seriously.
20:42 wizzyrea slef: the headline alone
20:43 wizzyrea priceless: "The mayor, who was cycling past, stopped and chased the girls down the street, calling them 'oiks'. "
20:43 chris wizzyrea: maybe drop atz a note
20:43 wizzyrea yea, I was thinking about that actually
20:44 sekjal that bloody comparison chart.... very misleading. Is it even true if "Koha Community" = 3.0.2?
20:44 * pianohacker finds it very odd that 3.0.x is being pushed as community
20:44 slef is there an independent SIP test-suite?
20:44 pianohacker when so many koha users are running off git
20:45 wizzyrea pianohacker: they say lots of things
20:45 owen LibLime now sees the open-source version of Koha purely in "official release" terms
20:45 pianohacker especially given that LEK is developed off HEAD
20:45 wizzyrea I know. they say lots of misleading things.
20:45 chris basically we need control of www.koha.org back
20:45 owen pianohacker: Yes, but then they rewrote every line of code to eliminate every bug.
20:46 pianohacker of course!
20:46 wizzyrea sorry I didn't mean to stir that up
20:46 wizzyrea :(
20:46 sekjal what the heck is "Patron loading"?
20:46 * owen had better quit before he gets too worked up ;)
20:46 chris im glad you brought it up
20:46 pianohacker wizzyrea: we're self-stirring
20:46 owen See y'all tomorrow
20:47 pianohacker bye, owen
20:47 wizzyrea I just felt the need to share my irritation about almost being denied a grant over misleading marketing
20:47 chris_n bye owen
20:47 chris its important we know that this kind of thing is happening
20:47 * sekjal stops, breathes, dials it back down
20:47 * chris_n agrees
20:47 wizzyrea not to mention that somewhere, someone is saying koha isn't sip2 compliant, which is laughably false
20:48 chris sekjal: its in main koha
20:48 chris_n we are effectively suffering damages due to misrepresentation
20:48 chris yes
20:48 ColinC by coincidence I've just posted a bug in sip2 fix coming
20:49 sekjal that's what this whole fork issue is really all about; who gets to control what people know to be "Koha"
20:49 chris heh
20:49 sekjal codebases fork; its part of life, and a fundamental part of our version control system
20:49 chris sekjal: yes, its less a fork, more an attempted hostile takeover
20:49 ricardo chris: *nod*
20:49 chris_n fork vs FORK maybe
20:49 * brendan *sigh*
20:50 pianohacker and then there's "offline circulation", but that's been there for a while
20:50 wizzyrea oh drat
20:50 wizzyrea melanie was here
20:50 sekjal but all the spin, misreprentation, and outright lies... that's why I get so worked up over this
20:50 wizzyrea she has been having nuts problems with her sip2 and magnetic media wiping
20:50 davi What will be the steps we will follow to take over koha.org?
20:50 wizzyrea colin: I didnt realize sip2 was partially your baby too
20:51 * sekjal stops again, breathes again, ratchets it back more forcefully
20:51 chris hehe
20:51 pianohacker davi: the official jargon is "restore ownership of koha.org to the community"
20:51 davi good
20:51 slef chris_n: FORK or FEK?
20:52 ColinC I know the protocol well. I'm gathering & posting some patches for oops in it
20:52 wizzyrea I think HLT is pursuing private talks with the asset owner.
20:52 chris ColinC++
20:52 pianohacker fek sounds like a canadian curse word
20:52 chris_n slef:lol
20:52 chris wizzyrea: ah well, it's probably best she knows
20:52 thd ftherese: are you there?
20:52 chris_n ColinC++
20:54 slef I'm happy ColinC is working on SIP. Some of the docs contradict each other, some machines seem not to follow them anyway and hardware suppliers are not very responsive.
20:54 wizzyrea slef: oi, no kidding
20:54 slef I've already two unresponsive supplier developments with RFID and EDI. Share and enjoy.
20:54 ColinC Some of the documents have been lost in corporate offices too
20:54 wizzyrea we had a deal where one side said "Koha is broken" and the other said "the product is broken"
20:55 chris off topic, did anyone understand lee's question about barocdes on the mailing list?
20:55 wizzyrea we ended up fixing koha
20:55 thd Standards documents could never contradict one another, especially not within the same document. :)
20:55 Colin I was tempted to reply. I thought this was fixed 20/30 years ago
20:56 wizzyrea I think he's wanting perhaps there to be random generated barcode seed?
20:56 slef wizzyrea: I've got something like that with my internet link too. Benefit of FOSS is you can go "here is the source code. Can you explain how it's broken because it passes the test suite and I just can't see it?"
20:56 wizzyrea so every koha install has unique barcode
20:56 wizzyrea s
20:57 ricardo wizzyrea: Maybe he wants something like a GUID (Globally Unique Identifiers)
20:57 slef (current internet link fun is wholesaler claiming that my router is consistently interpreting electrical interference as LCP TermReq, which looks pretty impossible in the source code)
20:57 chris its a she :)
20:57 wizzyrea s/he
20:57 chris lee from montanan wizzyrea :)
20:57 wizzyrea :P
20:57 ricardo chris: [Koha-Patches] s/he/she ;-)
20:57 wizzyrea oh right
20:57 chris ill reply saying huh?
20:58 wizzyrea probably more like what ricardo is saying
20:58 sekjal Aren't barcodes usually physically printed and stuck to the material?
20:58 chris yes
20:58 sekjal wouldn't changing barcodes in a library require reprocessing all the items?
20:58 sekjal wouldn't most libraries refuse to do that unless forced?
20:58 chris yeah it doesnt sound like a koha problem
20:58 slef a barely koha-related question for all the sysadmins: what's the best way of killing process A when process B exits?
20:59 Colin its not a project to undertake lightly (seen it done, wrote some support software)
20:59 brendan I think lee is asking weither she should listen to the state library and rebarcode her collection for the future
20:59 wizzyrea sekjal: yes, it requires rebarcoding, and they only do it in extreme circumstances
20:59 brendan ie. a global database for montana
21:00 pianohacker slef: I'd go with an while ps ax | grep pid; sleep reasonable_amount_of_time; done; kill other_pid
21:00 chris_n chris: sounds like a branch issue to me
21:00 chris yeah i basically replied and said, i dont think this is a koha issue, koha doesnt force you to use any particular barcode regime
21:00 brendan yup that is correct if I understand correctly
21:01 SelfishMan As a library that is being pressured to renumber our collection I can say that we aren't in a rush to switch as it will cost us about $75k
21:01 slef pianohacker: complication: other_pid is the first process in a backgrounded pipe. How to get its pid?
21:01 thd We should have a way of tracking multiple barcodes
21:01 SelfishMan brendan: Yeah, the MT state library is pretty bad for that
21:01 wizzyrea i mean, we make our libraries issue new cards for exactly this reason
21:01 pianohacker slef: Hmm. is this a one-time thing? If not, you could use pgrep -f
21:01 SelfishMan I've worked with our director to figure out an option that should work fine though
21:02 slef pianohacker: this is a scripted thing
21:02 sekjal thd: agreed. my old ILS allowed multiple barcodes, and now some of our items aren't scanning right
21:02 thd Multiple barcodes per item could be useful and often exist in the real world
21:03 cait Colin?
21:03 sekjal the two barcodes got concat'ed into the barcode field (separated by " | "), and cut off after 30 char
21:04 chris_n sekjal: the present method of storing barcodes is rather problematic
21:04 pianohacker slef: If you moved the backgrounded pipe into its own process, either by making a separate script or by some other trickery, you could simply background the separate process, then only have one thing to kill
21:04 slef pondering doing wait $! ; kill $(expr $! - 1)
21:05 slef no trickery, just & on end of line
21:05 cait Colin: I just saw your bug 3767, is it possible its the same bug reported by easycheck (vendor from our koha library) bug 3696)?
21:05 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3767 enhancement, P5, ---, joe.atzberger@liblime.com, NEW, Invalid barcodes in checkin cause sip connection to terminate
21:05 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3696 major, P3, ---, joe.atzberger@liblime.com, NEW, checking in invalid item causes break of comm
21:06 chris_n bbl
21:06 wizzyrea ooh, I like the description of that second one
21:06 pianohacker slef: It looks like your trick would probably be the easiest
21:06 ricardo wizzyrea: LOL
21:06 sekjal hmmm, time to grab some groceries and head home to cook them.
21:06 wizzyrea humor in bug reports. I like it
21:06 slef pianohacker: do pipelines always have consecutive PIDs?
21:06 sekjal good <localtime>, #koha
21:07 ricardo wizzyrea: I think it should be "checking in invalid item causes break of comm NO CARRIER" ;-)
21:07 cait dont know if the humor was intended
21:07 wizzyrea HEHEHE
21:07 pianohacker slef: A quick test says that they _usually_ do
21:07 ricardo wizzyrea: :)
21:07 pianohacker bit of a race condition, tho
21:08 pianohacker if the context isn't super-crucial, probably good enough
21:08 wizzyrea cait: those bugs look extremely similar to me
21:09 cait yes, I think they are
21:10 Colin cait: yes it is the same. path coming
21:11 Colin thats patch not path
21:11 cait wizzyrea: self check works really good for our library - no phone calls so far and 750 checkouts and 500+ check ins - only 2 small bugs I know of, this is one of them
21:12 Colin cait: what units are connected?
21:12 * ricardo sighs because of data migration project work (to get data from proprietary system, using non-standard format, into Koha)
21:13 cait sorry, dont know if I understand your question correctly
21:13 Colin Who supplies the self check units
21:13 cait they have one self check out station for check out and check in, no sorting, just a shelf for check ins, we dont allow renewals, this seemed to be problematic
21:13 cait its a german vendor - easycheck
21:15 cait we did a lot of testing, we provided test cases and got feedback from easycheck.
21:16 wizzyrea ours are 3M RFID machines
21:17 wizzyrea they work very well, we haven't even heard reports of the invalid barcode problem
21:17 wizzyrea (which either means all of the barcodes are in the system or we've just been really lucky(
21:19 cait wizzyrea: dont know :) I think it does not happen very often, we discovered in testing, I had a test case for that. did not happen in the library so far.
21:20 Colin some units validate the barcode some dont and pass the misreads
21:23 cait Colin: I think its not only about misreads, but could also happen when an item is accidently deleted from koha
21:26 Colin Yes or if you put a barcode on a book but it never got added to the db
21:26 cait we should mark one og the bugs as duplicate
21:27 Colin I will. I added your bug number to the commit as well
21:27 cait thx Colin :)
21:34 hdl good night
21:34 pianohacker good night, hdl
21:36 Colin gnight hdl
21:37 chris night hdl
21:40 ricardo Does anyone know what Koha version is installed in Kyle Hall's Virtual Machines?
21:40 chris the about page would tell ya
21:40 ricardo It seems to be 3.0.1
21:40 ricardo http://sourceforge.net/projects/koha-tools/files/Koha%20Virtual%20Appliance/
21:41 chris probably, it is a little bit old now
21:41 ricardo chris: yeah.
21:41 ricardo chris: I have to use that information for replying to Jaqueline (she replied me off-list , meaning off the "Koha Translate" list). I won't be able to reply today, though
21:42 chris righto
21:42 ricardo OK. Leaving towards home now... Take care everyone :)
21:42 chris yeah, i have a backlog of mail i have to reply to, will try to tonigh
21:42 chris in between fireworks
21:42 ricardo chris: LOL!
21:42 chris remember remember the 5th of november
21:42 brendan fireworks?
21:42 chris guy fawkes day
21:43 brendan oh right cool
21:43 ricardo chris: Nice... Always a good day to (re)watch "V for Vendetta" ;-)
21:43 wizzyrea ooh yes
21:43 Colin The only man ever to enter parliament with honest intentions
21:43 chris :)
21:43 * wizzyrea makes a mental note to break out V for Vendetta tomorrow
21:43 pianohacker s/parliament/any government building/g
21:43 ricardo wizzyrea: :)
21:44 ricardo pianohacker: Hey, I'm a public servant, you insensitive clod! ;-)
21:44 chris personally i use the 5th to remember parihaka instead
21:44 pianohacker ricardo: Hey, so am I (technically)
21:44 chris http://www.parihaka.com/About.aspx
21:45 wizzyrea ricardo: actually it appears that the virtual appliances are 3.0.1
21:45 wizzyrea er
21:45 wizzyrea sorry
21:45 wizzyrea 3.01
21:45 pianohacker never have quite understood the funding model of my library
21:45 chris "The invasion of the settlement on the 5th of November 1881 by 1500 militia and armed members of the constabulary was the result of greed for MÄori owned land and the quest for power by politicians and settlers. Parihaka had become a haven for the dispossessed from througout the country."
21:45 ricardo wizzyrea: 3.01 = 3.0.1 I believe. But thanks :)
21:45 pianohacker I guess that's why they don't pay me the big bucks
21:45 ricardo pianohacker: LOL!
21:45 ricardo pianohacker: I think I know a good joke about that, but it's in cartoon form (difficult to search)
21:46 chris Then in 1881 it was the scene of one of the worst infringements of civil and human rights ever committed and witnessed in this country.
21:46 wizzyrea ricardo: i'm not sure, 3.01 is claimed to be an upgrade from 3.0.4, whereas 3.0.1 would be a downgrade from 3.0.4
21:46 chris much more salient thing to remember than guy fawkes :)
21:46 wizzyrea am I high?
21:46 nengard are you?
21:46 pianohacker chris: yeah
21:46 chris 3.01.01 would be an upgrade
21:46 wizzyrea ok, yes
21:47 chris but there has never ever been an 3.01.x release
21:47 ricardo wizzyrea: I think you mean "3.1"... and it seems that we are moving directly towards "3.2". But I admit I'm paying more attention to 3.0.x
21:47 pianohacker wizzyrea: There's a possibility for confusion: current git version numbers are like 3.01.00.061
21:47 wizzyrea no sir, I mean 3.01
21:47 wizzyrea there's no official release for that
21:47 chris ricardo: odd second numbers are unstable
21:47 pianohacker 3.01 is the perl-version-number way of saying 3.1, which is the unstable of 3.2 by linux kernel standards
21:47 wizzyrea pianohacker right
21:47 ricardo chris: Like in Linux Kernel tradition, right? OK
21:47 wizzyrea so
21:48 ricardo pianohacker: *nod*
21:48 wizzyrea that said, the download says 3.01
21:48 chris 3.0.x = stable 3.2.x = stable (they can be written as 3.00.x and 3.02.x .. 3.1 = 3.01)
21:48 wizzyrea :)
21:48 pianohacker 3.01 != 3.0.1
21:48 * pianohacker breathes out
21:48 pianohacker *phew*
21:48 chris wizzyrea: so thats eitehr a typo
21:48 ricardo pianohacker: LOL!
21:48 wizzyrea or it's right and what he intended
21:48 chris or its based off master branch, and not a release
21:48 wizzyrea it must be based off of master
21:48 wizzyrea and not a release
21:49 wizzyrea there's a download for 3.0.1 and for 3.01
21:49 slef pianohacker: kill $(ps --ppid $$ --no-heading opid) inside the pipeline works. ewww ;-)
21:49 chris right
21:49 ricardo wizzyrea: OK
21:49 ricardo Well, thanks for replying. Leaving now. Take care! :)
21:49 pianohacker slef: hey, whatever works :P shell scripts ain't supposed to be pretty
21:49 pianohacker bye, ricardo, sleep well
21:50 wizzyrea I think it's right, he labels them 3.0.1 "official release" or 3.01.00.32
21:50 Colin boa noite
21:50 wizzyrea bye, ttyl :)
21:50 wizzyrea (sorry, that's one I get on about because it's easy to be misled)
21:50 chris yeah, labelling with their full numbers is much more useful
21:50 * wizzyrea demands precisioin!
21:51 ricardo Bye pianohacker, chris, slef and wizzyrea! :)
21:51 * wizzyrea succumbs to a spelling fail
21:51 * wizzyrea demands precision!
21:51 wizzyrea much better
21:51 chris oh i just noticed
21:51 chris LEK doesnt support titles for books
21:51 wizzyrea LOL
21:51 cait huh?
21:51 wizzyrea that is win all over the place
21:52 chris cait: fighting fud with fud
21:52 cait ah
21:53 wizzyrea oh OH a FUD fight!
21:54 chris he
21:54 chris h
21:54 pianohacker dangit, and I just used up the last of the whipped cream
21:56 * wizzyrea goes to check for rotten tomatoes
21:57 chris so does the new mexico state libary use koha?
21:58 brendan no idea -- but I have seen them poking around on the mailing list
21:58 chris *nod*
21:59 * chris_n2 cooks up breakfast
21:59 chris id look, but their website doesnt want to load
22:01 Colin It says powered by dynix in big letters
22:02 Colin As a horizon user they are probably thinking about change
22:02 chris guess they must be just evaluating
22:02 chris yeah
22:02 chris http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wKhrEFzLfM
22:02 chris heres the video im gonna use for the kohacon10 invites
22:05 brendan ahhh NZ - can't wait :)
22:08 brendan so the question is -- does chris appear anywhere in the video
22:08 Nate gnite #koha
22:10 chris not that one, but my hand is in this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SblTKIZoInI
22:10 brendan the famous hand :)
22:11 chris lemme find it again hehe
22:14 Nate By the way Chris that video is SWEET!
22:14 Nate k thats all bye for real
22:18 chris_n2 come and get it... ;-)
22:18 chris :)
22:19 chris brendan: somewhere roudn the 5.50 mark
22:19 brendan nice was thinking 5:56
22:19 chris :)
22:19 chris was an awesome concert that
22:20 brendan did you have a bracelet on?
22:20 chris the one for getting into the gig yeah
22:20 brendan :)
22:21 thd chris: There is a koha-devel question about migrating from Sirsi which has gone unanswered. Are you worried about painting a target on ourselves for non-library respondents to point him in the correct direction?
22:22 chris nope, i just didnt have a right direction to point him
22:22 chris i was hoping someone who had recently migrated would speak up
22:23 chris the horizon libraries i have been involved in, were running old old versions
22:23 thd chris: I could point him to some recent migration work and refer him to a SirsDynix API script for migrating data out of the system.
22:24 schuster Are they Horizon or Unicorn?
22:24 schuster I have not read the post yet..
22:24 Colin Horizon
22:24 schuster Then API scripts won't matter as those are Unicorn.
22:25 schuster I'll try and answer him tonight when I have a chance to read the post - as we migrated with LL help in Nov of 08 and went live in Jan 09
22:25 chris awesome schuster
22:25 thd What I had read about the API is that it covered both Unicorn and Horizon.
22:26 thd There is a very recent script which may cover both systems.
22:29 Colin The two systems are totally different in structure
22:29 ftherese why is it that I have results in a reservoir, and none in the catalog?
22:30 thd Colin: they could be different and yet use an API which had a unified dialogue on the front end with divergent code for the back end.
22:31 thd ftherese: You have to add records from the reservoir to the catalogue.
22:31 ftherese I want to add them all... what do I do thd?
22:32 thd ftherese: If you use the bulkmarkimport.pl script then you can bypass all that reservoir nonsense.
22:32 ftherese where do I get that?
22:32 Colin thd: I think that will be more marketing then reality.
22:32 thd ftherese: I am not exactly certain of the procedure for taking material out of the reservoir because I avoid it.
22:33 thd ftherese: bulkmarcimport.pl is in misc/migration_tools I believe
22:36 thd ftherese: yes, bulkmarcimport.pl is in misc/migration_tools in the code repository and should also be in a similar subdirectory of wherever you installed Koha.
22:36 thd ftherese: 200 1#$aSons and lovers $fby D H Lawrance. 700 #1$aLawrence$bD.H.$gDavid Herbert
22:37 thd ftherese: The above shows the use of both 200 $f and 700 in the same UNIMARC record.
22:37 ftherese ok... my problem is also for adding items correctly
22:38 ftherese because I have several duplicates copies of books
22:38 ftherese if I add the marc file... how can I tell it not to add duplicate item information
22:38 thd ftherese: The 700 authority form of the name disambiguates for all the other D H Lawrances of the world.
22:38 ftherese lol
22:40 thd ftherese: There are 16 different Thomas Manns in the Harvard libraries' collection.
22:40 thd ftherese: Or some large number last time I counted
22:40 ftherese so how do I deal with multiple copies of the same book?
22:41 thd ftherese: Yes, do you not want to record the multiple copies?
22:42 thd ftherese: You can have them all in the bibliographic record by repeating the 995 field for holdings.
22:42 ftherese right... but when I do the import how do I deal with that
22:42 ftherese I would need to filter it using the bulkmarkimport.pl script
22:46 thd ftherese: You should write a script to take each item for a record and create a 995 which has at least 995 $b $c $k and maybe $f if you have barcodes.
22:47 thd ftherese: You should write a script to take each item for a record and create a bibliographic record and within each bibliographic record a 995 for each item which has at least 995 $b $c $k and maybe $f if you have barcodes.
22:50 thd ftherese: Writing your own Perl script to create the UNIMARC records from your CVS files using MARC::Record would be a very effective way to accomplish the task.
22:51 thd ftherese: People use programs such as MARCEdit for many things but a GUI program such as MARCEdit may not give the level of control which you need.
22:52 thd ftherese: If you ask on the koha mailing list someone may already have a script for you.
22:53 thd ftherese: Most likely their script would be for MARC 21 so you would simply need to make adjustments for UNIMARC.
22:56 ftherese I speak many languages... but not perl :(
22:57 pianohacker ftherese: What human languages do you speak, out of curiosity?
23:01 thd ftherese: If someone already has a script, then changing it would not be especially difficult even without real Perl knowledge.
23:01 thd ftherese: Do you know Python?
23:02 slef heh http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/ramon/nuts/introannex_regions_en.html
23:02 ftherese thd: no I don't know Python either... I have always hoped I could avoid those two...
23:02 ftherese pianohacker: just french and spanish
23:02 thd ftherese: Do you know PHP?
23:02 ftherese <groan> no </groan>
23:03 chris ruby?
23:03 ftherese nope
23:03 ftherese wow... laundry list of languages I don't know
23:03 ftherese I mean... I can usually understand what a script does by looking at it
23:03 ftherese and even tweak it
23:04 thd ftherese: Exactly.
23:04 ftherese but, do something from scratch?!? expecially when I don't know the data structures!?!?!?
23:04 pianohacker sounds rather like my understanding of spanish...
23:04 thd ftherese: If someone has a script which does what you want for MARC 21 you could fix it to work for UNIMARC.
23:05 ftherese I believe that is not a complete overestimation of my capacities
23:05 ftherese so... in theory... yes... it might take me a few days... and frustration
23:06 ftherese but once I started I wouldn't be able to stop until I had it... so if there was a script for Marc 21 I could probably change it for UniMarc
23:07 thd ftherese: There had been an old script for importing from Filemaker for Koha 2.
23:07 ftherese hmmm...
23:08 ftherese a bit late for that one...
23:08 thd ftherese: I know all about Filemaker and its limitations. You would definitely be better off with Koha.
23:08 ftherese unless the script was REALLY REALLY good
23:09 thd ftherese: What do you mean by late?
23:09 ftherese too late for the filemaker script
23:09 thd ftherese: Why too late? What is too late?
23:10 thd ftherese: Are you referring to some deadline of yours?
23:10 ftherese well... unless the filemaker script is REALLY REALLY good... I've already gone beyond needing help moving my data out of filemaker
23:10 ftherese no... I don't have a deadline
23:11 thd ftherese: I think that the script did something useful with the exported data which is what you need.
23:12 ftherese unless, for example, I could use the script to move - in one fell swoop - all the data in my filemaker databases directly into the koha catalog... I am afraid I would be backpeddling
23:17 thd ftherese: Ask on the Koha mailing list. Other people have had the same problem and it is likely that someone would share a solution.
23:17 ftherese ok
23:19 thd ftherese: There are some configuration issues which you may need to address for UNIMARC Koha because some of the defaults have left too much work for the librarian. You could ask for people to share those also.
23:20 thd ftherese: Requests for UNIMARC defaults such as better configured Koha UNIMARC frameworks from someone who would share might be best asked on the French Koha mailing list.
23:23 thd ftherese: I have a script for capturing Koha MARC frameworks which could help if you find someone who wants to share his Koha MARC frameworks but does not know how.
23:24 ftherese should I mail the regular list or the dev. list?
23:25 thd ftherese: I would send a message to the user's or general list first.
23:25 thd ftherese: More people see that one.
23:26 ftherese ok
23:26 thd ftherese: If you have no success on the users' list after a few days, the try the devel list.
23:32 thd ftherese: Request anything which might help if you ask for UNIMARC that may scare away most response.
23:33 ftherese ok... I'll keep that in mind
23:34 thd ftherese: Mention that you would be happy to convert a script designed for MARC 21.
23:45 schuster Question - with all the thing that have been dropped... Are the sounds in circ still there for 3.2?
23:46 chris s/dropped/withheld/
23:46 chris you would have to ask galen that, ill do a quick search tho
23:46 chris do you have a bug number?
23:49 chris http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1080
23:49 munin 04Bug 1080: enhancement, P2, ---, oleonard@myacpl.org, NEW, How about telling the template to make a noise on circulation errors?
23:49 chris there are patches there
23:50 chris someone would need to tidy them up and resubmit them
23:52 brendan some old notes that I had -
23:52 brendan A wave file will play when a bad barcode is entered in checkin or checkout.
23:52 brendan The following code is added at line 143 of circulation.tmpl and line 241 of returns.tmpl
23:52 brendan <!-- Play a sound if the item is bad-->
23:52 brendan <EMBED src="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='themelang' -->/includes/sounds [ remove highlighting ]/error.wav"
23:52 brendan type="audio/wav" autostart=true hidden=true loop=1 height=60 width=128 </embed>
23:53 brendan but that looks the same as the patch - i why I think that never was pushed