Time  Nick            Message
23:35 pianohacker     back
22:23 sekjal          I'm curious, how have others marked their orders as "paid" or " ready to pay"?
22:22 sekjal          I've been working on a script to push our Acquisitions orders to Accounts Payable in an EDI file
22:18 sekjal          Yay mibbit
22:18 sekjal          Tried downloading an app, but the only free one didn't like our server
22:17 sekjal          Looks like it's working. Hey, chris and brendan
22:17 brendan         seems smooth so far
22:17 brendan         heya sekjal
22:17 chris           :)
22:17 sekjal          Hi, everyone. Trying IRC on the train; hoping it works smoothly
22:05 chris           heh
22:04 brendan         happy invention of the barcode day -- I guess
22:04 brendan         gotten close
22:04 brendan         cool
22:02 chris           md5_base64
22:01 brendan         quick questions what is the encryption on the user passwords in the mysql database
22:00 chris           http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2942070/Cord-snaps-on-Wellington-bungy-ride
22:00 brendan         afternoon #koha
21:31 chris           night hdl
21:30 pianohacker     good night hdl
21:29 hdl             good night Koha
21:29 pianohacker     hi Jo
21:27 Jo              Mornin g all
21:26 hdl             owen ok for viewOthersSuggestion on 3.0.x
21:07 schuster        Well I'm off won't be around now until Monday again busy next 4 days.
21:06 rhcl_busy       Well, RHCL is impressed.
21:05 gmcharlt        rhcl_busy: yes
21:04 rhcl_busy       NISO like National Information Standards Organization?
21:03 chris           ah
21:03 gmcharlt        no, just a general forum
21:03 chris           NCIP stuff?
21:03 chris           ahhh cool
21:02 gmcharlt        to Boston for a NISO meeting
21:02 chris           ahh, on your way back to florida?
21:02 * gmcharlt      is sitting in airport again
21:01 chris           wb gmcharlt
20:10 hdl             (before)
20:10 hdl             Will test on 3.0.x soon
20:09 hdl             oh....
20:09 owen            hdl: I'm speaking of HEAD, by the way
20:08 hdl             owen will try that.
20:08 pianohacker     hi jwagner. how are you?
20:04 chris           yeah the next time he either logs in, or if he was already logged in, the next time he said something
20:04 schuster        owen sorry we are not using that feature kids and comments probably not a good mix.
20:03 schuster        Chris so the next time Ricardo logs in he will get this message is that what that means?
20:03 owen            Is anyone else finding that they do no see others' purchase suggestions in the OPAC?
20:02 munin`          chris: The operation succeeded.
20:02 chris           @later tell ricardo i generated the templates fine with the version of the .po file that is in 3.0.x
20:00 hdl             mmm... Yes. with OPACViewothersSuggestion ON you should be able to see those suggestions
20:00 hdl             owen it is the reverse
19:59 owen            There are three outstanding suggestions in the system, but I only see the one owned by the logged in user in the opac
19:59 owen            If OPACViewOthersSuggestions is ON, shouldn't I be able to see suggestions from other users?
19:59 owen            Bye ricardo
19:59 ricardo         Bye everyone. Thanks chris , owen and hdl !
19:58 ricardo         Got to go... BBL, maybe
19:55 paul_p          (owen, nahuel told me he still has 30 to do, will do them tomorrow, you won't win ;-) )
19:55 owen            paul_p: I don't think I can beat nahuel's numbers!
19:55 ricardo         paul_p: LOL!
19:55 paul_p          owen and nahuel are competing today on updating bugzilla...
19:54 ricardo         hdl: Not sure if it could have a side effect, but it has to be corrected.
19:54 ricardo         hdl: OK... I guess I'll have to correct this and submit again to Chris...
19:54 ricardo         It's really lines 5632 tp 5638
19:53 ricardo         No... Back to square 1
19:51 ricardo         Although I'm not seeing reasons for trouble
19:50 ricardo         hdl: Actually, the output you mentioned points to lines 48137 to lines 48142
19:47 ricardo         Lines 5632 to 5646 seem to be having problems
19:46 ricardo         http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=blob;f=misc/translator/po/pt-PT-i-staff-t-prog-v-3000000.po;h=2dbe0eeb5c864130ac66fe79702615aab987b95f;hb=3.0.x
19:46 ricardo         hdl: Yep... You seem to be right
19:41 ricardo         hdl: OK... Let me check the PO file for that
19:38 hdl             seems to be there
19:38 hdl             tmpl_process3.pl: Warning: guided_reports_start.tmpl: <a2>: Anchor 2 not found for msgid "&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;  <a1>Assistente de  relatórios</a> &nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;  <a2>Relatórios guardados</a> &nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;  Relatório <em>%s</em>" Can't call method "string" on an undefined value at TmplTokenizer.pm line 983, <$handle> line 57.
19:35 ricardo         pianohacker: That's me... "Ricardo Breakage, Inc."  ;-)
19:33 pianohacker     ricardo: wow, that broke impressively
19:32 hdl             bonsoir pa
19:31 pastebot        "ricardo" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "Full output of install-code.pl pt-PT" (1352 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/21
19:31 ricardo         Hi paul_p and richard
19:31 brendan         hehe
19:31 richard         brendan, even
19:31 brendan         howdy pianohacker
19:31 richard         ack
19:30 richard         hey brenday
19:30 brendan         hi richard
19:30 richard         hi pianohacker
19:29 pianohacker     hello
19:29 richard         hi
19:29 brendan         wow lots to read back through :)
19:06 ricardo         bye chris. Sorry and thanks. See you later
19:05 pianohacker     bye
19:05 pianohacker     sorry, realized that wouldn't work (hitting enter accidentally a lot)
19:05 chris           but now i really have to go
19:05 chris           the server will try to execute it
19:05 chris           dont put it in cgi-bin
19:05 pianohacker     (nvm)
19:05 ricardo         pianohacker: I'll try in cgi-bin/koha
19:04 pianohacker     you could throw it in koha
19:04 chris           right gotta go, ill be back in an hour, but i suspect just grep that file for doc-head-close
19:04 ricardo         OK
19:04 chris           no idea
19:04 ricardo         ow let me put this somewhere visible in the web server... as a text file even... Suggestions for directory?
19:04 ricardo         Repeating
19:03 chris           but that explains it, it was never updating the includes
19:03 chris           weird, works perfectly fine here
19:02 ricardo         chris: Yes, today
19:02 chris           and you have fetch and rebased recently?
19:02 ricardo         Now let me put this somewhere visible in the web server... as a text file even... Suggestions for directory?
19:02 chris           so we are looking for some error back before it starts making the opac-tmpl files
19:01 ricardo         done!
19:01 chris           ok, so it works fine here on a 3.0.x up to date
19:01 ricardo         (still running... argh)
19:01 ricardo         running...
19:00 pianohacker     ahh, right, if its over ssh that trick won't work
19:00 ricardo         (Darn AJAX console)
18:59 hdl             good morning chris.
18:58 ricardo         Redirecting file
18:58 ricardo         OK...
18:58 ricardo         chris: PANIC!
18:58 chris           and those times tell me its time to catch my bus very soon
18:57 chris           and it created all the files
18:57 pianohacker     then just paste with no intermediate step
18:57 chris           right that is on a fresh 3.0.x rebased to latest version
18:57 pianohacker     ricardo: if you have the xclip tool installed, you can pipe output to xclip -selection clipboard
18:57 ricardo         Answer... Yeah... I should also redirect standard error. Let's do this... again
18:57 pastebot        "chris" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "generated templates" (8 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/20
18:57 ricardo         viewing file
18:56 ricardo         (I wonder if I also should be redirecting standard error)
18:56 ricardo         ./install-code.pl pt-PT > output_install_code.pl
18:55 chris           and running install-code.pl pt-PT npw
18:55 ricardo         I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/misc/translator
18:55 ricardo         # pwd
18:55 chris           rebasing now
18:55 chris           cos it worked last time (20 mins ago)
18:55 chris           too
18:55 chris           i will rebase and try again
18:54 ricardo         # rm -rf pt-PT
18:54 ricardo         # cd ../..
18:54 ricardo         pianohacker: OK, thanks for the feedback. Maybe "therein lies the bug"
18:53 pianohacker     ricardo: I was missing the includes folder when I tried it, so something strange is going on
18:53 chris           k
18:53 ricardo         Let me run this... again (removing pt-PT folder) and put the entire output in paste.workbuffer.org
18:53 chris           what was the last line just before the successful
18:52 ricardo         Well, then... "Houston, we have a problem!"  :-/
18:52 chris           yep
18:52 ricardo         Shouldn't I get also "includes", for instance?
18:52 ricardo         js  modules
18:52 ricardo         I only get this:
18:52 ricardo         uh-oh
18:51 ricardo         # ls
18:51 ricardo         en  img  pt-PT  pt-PT-old
18:51 ricardo         # ls
18:51 ricardo         I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog
18:51 ricardo         # pwd
18:50 ricardo         let's see the templates folder again
18:50 ricardo         "The install seems to be successful. "
18:50 ricardo         OK
18:49 chris           yep
18:49 ricardo         # ./install-code.pt pt-PT
18:48 ricardo         I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/misc/translator
18:48 ricardo         # pwd
18:48 ricardo         chris: OK, thanks
18:47 chris           no you shouldnt
18:47 ricardo         mv pt-PT pt-PT-old
18:47 ricardo         I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog
18:47 ricardo         # pwd
18:47 ricardo         Anyway...
18:45 ricardo         chris: NOTE... I'm not running "perl Makefile.PL; make; make install" in these experiments. Should I have done that?
18:45 ricardo         chris: OK. Let me try to do that
18:44 pastebot        "ricardo" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "Output of locate -i "doc-head-close.inc" | grep -i "pt-pt"" (10 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/19
18:43 chris           then regen the templates
18:43 chris           you could do mv pt-PT pt-PT.old
18:43 ricardo         # locate -i "doc-head-close.inc" | grep -i "pt-pt"
18:42 ricardo         # updatedb
18:42 chris           yes
18:42 ricardo         OK... so let's admit that I'm being "deceived"... This "doc-head-close.inc" should be dated today... Shouldn't it?
18:41 ricardo         -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4027 2009-06-08 14:22 doc-head-close.inc
18:41 ricardo         # ls -l doc-head-close.inc
18:41 ricardo         Wed Oct  7 18:39:58 UTC 2009
18:41 ricardo         # date
18:40 ricardo         <script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/j                                             query/plugins/ui.tabs.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="<!--                                              TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.js"></script
18:40 ricardo         Line 21:
18:40 ricardo         # view doc-head-close.inc
18:40 ricardo         # cd includes
18:40 ricardo         # cd ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/pt-PT
18:38 ricardo         The install seems to be successful.
18:38 chris           it is created right near the start :)
18:38 chris           you can open another term and just go have a look at that file
18:38 chris           yep if you are impatient
18:38 ricardo         ...
18:38 ricardo         Creating ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/pt-PT//modules/cataloguing/value_builder/unimarc_field_124e.tmpl...
18:38 ricardo         ...
18:38 ricardo         Lots and lots of output...
18:37 chris           pt-PT/includes/doc-head-close.inc:<script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/ui.tabs.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.min.js"></script>
18:37 chris           yep
18:37 ricardo         right?
18:37 ricardo         ./install-code.pl pt-PT
18:37 ricardo         running
18:37 ricardo         I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/misc/translator
18:36 ricardo         # pwd
18:36 ricardo         # pwd/root/ricardokohaclone/misc/translator
18:36 chris           and its showing the right thing
18:36 chris           i just generated the pt templates
18:35 ricardo         chris: I do have a /root/rickoha30x/...  and a /root/rickohamaster ... for 2 different Virtual Hosts... But, in both cases, the translated files reside in "/root/ricardokohaclone" (AFAICT)
18:34 chris           in that case, recreate the templates right now :)
18:33 chris           because he copied the translated files elsewhere, which means they arent being run out of git
18:32 chris           yes, thats a red herring owen
18:32 pastebot        "ricardo" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "Output of grep "jquery.hotkeys" -r * in koha-tmpl" (11 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/18
18:32 owen            But when you switch to the English translation in his test server you get the correct file
18:31 chris           thats my latest theory
18:31 chris           i suspect that the english file in there has the wrong one, and since the translated one is based on it, it has the wrong one too
18:29 chris           grep "jquery.hotkeys" -r *
18:29 chris           cd koha-tmpl
18:29 ricardo         chris: and...?
18:29 ricardo         chris:Sure
18:29 * pianohacker   neither
18:29 chris           ricardo: can you change into your git repo
18:27 chris           cant find anything suspicious in the .po file
18:24 chris           the same way all the other files do, by the translation scripts (tmpl_process3.pl etc)
18:19 ricardo         How does "doc-head-close.inc" get generated?
18:14 ricardo         <script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/j                                             query/plugins/ui.tabs.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="<!--                                              TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.min.js"></sc
18:14 ricardo         Line 21
18:14 ricardo         # view doc-head-close.inc
18:14 ricardo         koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/includes
18:14 ricardo         And for the english one
18:12 ricardo         <script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/j                                             query/plugins/ui.tabs.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="<!--                                              TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.js"></script
18:12 chris           seems likely pianohacker
18:12 ricardo         Line 21
18:12 ricardo         # view doc-head-close.inc
18:12 pianohacker     could there be some odd line in the .po that is "translating" that file name?
18:12 ricardo         koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/pt-PT/includes
18:11 ricardo         Line 21 of that
18:11 ricardo         hdl had mentioned "doc-head-close.inc" and he's right
18:10 owen            The non-minifed version is an older version and the wrong one for the most recent 3.0.x
18:09 chris           whats the wrong one? the non minified version?
18:09 owen            <script type="text/javascript" src="/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/lib/jquery/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.js">
18:09 owen            In ricardo's test installation when you switch to the Portuguese translation you get the wrong one.
18:09 owen            The right one.
18:08 chris           and is that the right or wrong one?
18:08 owen            Right.
18:08 chris           <script type="text/javascript" src="/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/lib/jquery/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.min.js"></script>  that one?
18:08 chris           ta
18:07 owen            chris: line 26 of the "view source"
18:06 pianohacker     right. they're kind of similar in the fact that they've been haphazardly cobbled together to meet a need, and the makers are now frantically attempting cleanup efforts (see ecmascript and perl 6)
18:05 chris           owen: cool, what line?
18:05 chris           ricardo: i dont mind jquery, but js is in fact, retarded :)
18:04 ricardo         (js "vs" perl)
18:04 owen            chris, when you view the source you can see that the wrong file is being called
18:04 ricardo         chris: I think it's just a case of different tools (languages) for different things
18:04 chris           owen: can we see the line in the template that is getting the wrong file?
18:03 ricardo         owen: What is the file that loads the hotkeys plugin ?
18:03 chris           ricardo: that would mean i think perl is as retarded as js ... and i dont :)
18:02 owen            When I switched to a 3.0.x branch I was able to duplicate the problem, but after a rebase the problem went away
18:02 ricardo         chris: After what pianohacker wrote, it's now the time that you should write "touché"  ;-)
18:01 owen            It's a problem with the template...perhaps with template generation during the translation process
18:01 pianohacker     chris: and yet you learned perl :)
18:01 owen            It's not a javascript or jquery problem per se
18:01 ricardo         ;-)
18:01 munin`          ricardo: The operation succeeded.  Quote #39 added.
18:01 ricardo         @quote add chris <chris> nope, ive made it my aim in life not to learn js or html
18:01 owen            ricardo's problem is that under some circumstances the template is attempting to call the wrong version of the hotkeys plugin.
18:01 chris           otherwise i end having to fix stuff like this :)
18:00 chris           its true
18:00 ricardo         chris:LOL
18:00 chris           nope, ive made it my aim in life not to learn js or html
18:00 ricardo         chris: Right... Any suggestion to fix that?
17:57 chris           its the the hot key to jump to catalogue search (alt-q) is not being bound properly
17:54 ricardo         chris: same thing to me, but I won't argue
17:53 chris           no you get directed :)
17:53 ricardo         chris: OK. Then, in this case, it's a "conditional redirect": if you type anything, you get redirected!  ;-)
17:53 chris           this one only sends you to a another location when you type a key in the username or password field
17:52 chris           redirect is when you go to one page/location and are automatically sent to another
17:52 ricardo         chris: You mean like a "302" HTTP Response Header?
17:52 chris           yep, but redirect means something quite different
17:51 ricardo         chris: OK... redirect in that sense ("js is telling it to go to that page")
17:51 chris           the js is telling it to go to that page
17:51 chris           its not a redirect
17:50 ricardo         chris: Hi Chris! Isn't the FIRST redirect caused by "location.href" in "staff-global.js"? After that it may be submitted because, as you say, the form action is the "self" page (and after you're redirected to search.pl... well, the form that's submitted is also search.pl)
17:50 chris           by any keypress, rather than just by ctrl-q
17:49 chris           its that the form is being submitted
17:48 chris           its not the redirect that is the problem (and its not even redirecting)
17:48 ricardo         owen:  OK... Also "tamed" the cache in IE browser. Yep, redirect still happening
17:45 ricardo         (at least in Firefox... the local cache of IE here is acting "weird-beyond-belief")
17:45 ricardo         owen: Cool  :)  Bad news: the redirect to http://koha30xman.kohademo.info/cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/search.pl is still happening  :(
17:45 owen            Yes
17:45 ricardo         owen: Still here?
17:45 ricardo         I'm back
17:41 pianohacker     you are a valiant soul for at least trying :)
17:40 * chris         fell asleep about 20 mins into the meeting and just woke up again now
17:40 pianohacker     good morning, chris
17:40 chris           morning
17:24 owen            Nope
17:24 pianohacker     were you here for the meeting?
17:24 pianohacker     hi owen
17:24 owen            Hi pianohacker
17:22 pianohacker     hello
16:56 owen            Yeah, probably by added.
16:55 schuster        not sorted in a discernable way - possibly by added?  but when you click on edit items - they are sorted by homelocation.
16:54 owen            Not sorted, or not sorted in a way that is discernable?
16:53 schuster        what is interesting to me is the detail.tmpl is not sorted, but the additem.tmpl screen is...
16:53 owen            schuster: It could certainly be added. I know some libraries have problems with the tablesorter because they have huge amounts of items and the tablesorter bogs down loading of the page
16:52 ricardo         owen: Yep... It's either the IE cache that's not being deleted by "Delete all" or our proxy that's being a bit too "cache friendly"
16:52 schuster        hmm may play with turning that off and on and see what happens...  Now if only http://tablesorter.com/docs/ was able to apply in the staff client on the detail.tmpl I'd be in business!  Making even more librarians happy!
16:50 owen            OPACItemHolds
16:50 owen            schuster: item-level holds are enabled separately if that's what you mean
16:50 schuster        Thought my system was worse off than I thought - self hosted - and we have been doing development so this next community upgrade should be interesting.
16:49 schuster        Ah - interesting - If ON, enables Item-level Itemtype / Issuing Rules - so does that impact holds as well?
16:47 ricardo         owen: I'm starting to think I'm being bitten by our Proxy (maybe it's also caching pages)
16:47 ricardo         chris_n: *nod*
16:47 * chris_n       wonders about schuster's thinking ;-)
16:46 chris_n         ricardo: np; beware that <grep 'sapo'> will find every instance of the four letter combination rather than just those followed by <.pt> (if that matters to you)
16:45 owen            schuster: Item type will display on your detail page if you have item-level item types turned on.
16:45 schuster        whew...  Thought my system was worse off than I thought!
16:43 ricardo         chris_n: But thanks for helping  :)
16:43 ricardo         chris_n: Didn't test your solution(s) yet. Sorry!
16:43 ricardo         http://www.liamdelahunty.com/tips/linux_find_string_files.php
16:43 ricardo         Linux: Find a string in files and display just the filename
16:43 ricardo         Linux: Find a string in files and display just the filename
16:43 ricardo         chris_n:  this works... Based on:
16:42 ricardo         chris_n: find . -iname '*.js' | xargs grep 'sapo' -sl
16:42 owen            schuster: Sorry, that was outdated info
16:41 chris_n         correcting single quotes: 'grep -Ern "sapo\.pt" * | grep \.js'
16:40 chris_n         ricardo: or recursively: 'grep -Ern "sapo\.pt" *' | grep \.js
16:40 ricardo         chris_n: Cool, thanks.  :)  Let me test it
16:40 schuster        This all came about in the august update for me.
16:40 schuster        owen - I don't have OPACDisplayItypes???
16:39 chris_n         ricardo: right so try this: 'grep -En "sapo\.pt" *' | grep \.js
16:39 ricardo         chris_n: I think that the fact that the shell expands the wildcards in the current directory will make that NOT work for the subdirectories
16:38 chris_n2        ricardo: maybe 'grep -En "sapo\.pt" *.js'
16:36 ricardo         Easy question for the find / grep gurus here: how do I get a list of "*.js" files in current directory and below that have the string "sapo.pt" ?
16:36 kf              ok, time to leave - bye all :)
16:32 DarrellUlm      Thank you!
16:32 owen            http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/today
16:32 DarrellUlm      Any progress?
16:32 owen            DarrellUlm: The meeting was at 6AM EST
16:32 DarrellUlm      What time was the meeting supposed to happen EST? :)
16:32 hdl             mmm.That link is broken
16:31 hdl             http://koha.org/cgi-bin/logs.pl?user=&channel=&action=&text=&user-ddl=&channel-ddl=&action-ddl=&startdate=2+weeks+ago&enddate=now&saveas=&saved_query=%231+day&recall=recall
16:31 |Lupin|         see you later, all, have a nice day
16:31 DarrellUlm      I was called away serveral times. Normal.
16:31 DarrellUlm      Missed!
16:30 hdl             disappointed or dismissed/puzzled ?
16:30 DarrellUlm      I think I messed the meeting.
16:30 ricardo         hdl: Actually, I meant that "I'm being deceived BY something"  :)
16:29 hdl             OK... I'm being deceived for something.. ?????
16:29 * nengard       back
16:29 ricardo         owen /hdl:  This is still redirecting to "sapo.pt" although the "staff-global.js" file is the default one that doesn't redirect to that URL but to the /cgi-bin/search.pl (or something). Weird.... I have to see if there's other "staff-global.js" file at work here
16:28 DarrellUlm      What?
16:27 ricardo         OK... I'm being deceived for something...
16:27 DarrellUlm      Hello
16:24 DarrellUlm      Hello Again
16:23 ricardo         hdl: LOL!
16:23 hdl             owen: ricardo feel free to file the bug and bug me
16:19 owen            But I don't really know.
16:19 owen            Since the official version of the jquery plugin for 3.0.x is jsquery.hotkeys.min.js, the presence of jsquery.hotkeys.js in your translated templates suggests a problem with the translation process?
16:19 ricardo         I think hdl mentioned "doc-head-close.inc" yesterday
16:19 ricardo         owen: Any particular files / sections that I should look for?
16:18 ricardo         owen: Probably...
16:18 owen            ricardo: I suspect a problem with your installation or with your translated template
16:15 ricardo         owen: Are we using "jsquery.hotkeys.min.js"? In that case could we test it to change to "jsquery.hotkeys.js"? Or vice-versa? Or wouldn't changes in the jsquery file make any difference?
16:13 ricardo         owen: Yep, in IE 7 the problem remains, after clearing the cache and reopening the browser
16:11 owen            And by the way schuster, it looks like opac-detail has always been set up like that, the only difference is whether you have the OPACDisplayItypes preference turned on.
16:11 ricardo         owen: Yesterday I did and didn't make a difference. Let me try it again today (for IE7)
16:10 owen            ricardo: Have you cleared the cache on your IE7 and FF2 browsers?
16:09 owen            schuster: You learned about the jquery tablesorter plugin! http://tablesorter.com/docs/
16:09 ricardo         Not happening in (3) Firefox 3.5.3 (in the same Windows computer as 1)
16:09 schuster        Cool learned something today about tmpl!
16:09 ricardo         (2) Firefox 2.0.x (in a different computer running Linux)
16:09 owen            schuster: sortList: [[1,1]] would sort on the second column, descending order.
16:08 ricardo         (1) Internet Explorer 7 (in Windows)
16:08 schuster        Thanks!  I'll try that.
16:08 ricardo         But today it's only happening it for me in:
16:08 schuster        So what would I do to get it to sort on the second column? - sortList: [[1,1]] ?
16:08 owen            schuster: You'd change that to [[1,0]] to sort on the second column
16:08 ricardo         Nope... The problem remains
16:07 pastebot        "ricardo" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "Some warnings on Web Installer for the 3.0.x branch (update database structure)" (11 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/17
16:07 owen            Yes
16:07 schuster        sortList: [[0,0]] - would this be the place to play in the template? or is there another place to adust which column is first?
16:05 ricardo         Yep: "We are upgrading from Koha 3.00.04.016 to 3.00.04.018, you must update your database "
16:05 ricardo         OK... Ran "install-code.pl pt-PT" in /root/kohaclone/misc/translator .... Now, English translation asks to run "Web Installer" again (probably some database update... will run it)
16:04 ricardo         Back
16:03 schuster        sorry location
16:03 schuster        You can click on title to sort, but that is an extra step and the kids/librarians don't want to do that.
16:03 * nengard       lunching
16:03 schuster        Prefered as most item types for the book are the same so sorting on it is almost useless.
16:02 owen            Of course, sorting Location by default was probably something I or someone else made up off the top of our heads :)
16:02 schuster        that is correct and it is driving the librarians crazy...
16:02 owen            ...in which case the original intent was to sort by Location by default, and it just didn't get updated.
16:01 schuster        Yes that is correct on the history...  Item type was added in front of the location.
16:01 owen            If so, then Item type probably just took the place of Location as the default sorted column
16:01 owen            I can't remember the history here...was Location previously the first column in the table, then Item type was added?
16:01 owen            schuster: Yes, it's javascript, and the default sort column is part of the template
16:00 schuster        Looks like some java script?
15:59 schuster        In the template/pl item type was added for opac-detail - my question - is there a way to get it to sort on location by default rather than the item type?
15:56 |Lupin|         Which perl function would you guys use to xml-quote a string ?
15:52 ricardo         BRB
15:49 ricardo         Let me reboot that machine
15:49 ricardo         hdl: Cool :)
15:48 hdl             but biblibre_3.0.x.git.biblibre.com is a simple official head.
15:48 owen            ricardo: I could duplicate your problem *before* a fresh rebase, but now I can't
15:48 ricardo         hdl: OK
15:48 hdl             yes.
15:48 ricardo         hdl: I don't know... I don't follow "biblibre_3.0.x", just regular "3.0.x"
15:47 hdl             mmmm... Is there the same problem on biblibre_3.0.x ?
15:47 ricardo         hdl: OK. I can create a new git branch and get updates for it... Should i run "install-code.pl pt-PT" on that branch, after doing that?
15:46 hdl             owen: Because I had some bugs here and there (table sorter or highlight plugins which changed names.)
15:46 ricardo         hdl: I think I ran "install-code.pl pt-PT"... I might try to run it again. But given that owen is also getting this problem, I'm thinking it may not be the problem only with my setup
15:46 hdl             ricardo: have you updated all your translations after rebase ?
15:45 hdl             then.
15:45 hdl             owen: oh.... This could be a translation update problem.
15:45 hdl             owen: what about disabling hotkeys ?
15:44 kf              gmcharlt: thx :) I just was not sure how to answer the bug
15:44 gmcharlt        most likely, it's just a glitch getting rebuidl_zebra.pl on the cron list
15:44 gmcharlt        suggesting that they check with their support vendor
15:44 gmcharlt        kf: I've updated that bug to send a response to Warren
15:44 ricardo         owen: What would be the correct version of the plugin, BTW?
15:43 owen            More details about ricardo's experience: When logging in from the English version, the correct version of the plugin is loaded and the problem doesn't occur. If you choose the Portuguese translation, the wrong version of the plugin is loaded and the problem does occur.
15:42 owen            hdl, why did you expect problems from the jquery upgrade?
15:41 hdl             2 solutions : either stick to old jquery, or make a "last minute change" and apply the changes for jquery upgrade.
15:40 gmcharlt        (re 3694)
15:39 hdl             I knew that jquery change would be a problem for 3.0.x
15:39 gmcharlt        kf, hdl: may simply be a rebuild_zebra.pl glitch
15:38 hdl             wow. this is critical
15:38 owen            hdl: The result is that any keypress in the staff client login form causes a js redirect to search.pl
15:38 kf              hm, its a waldo library
15:37 owen            hdl: ricardo and I are discussing a problem in 3.0.x in which the wrong version of a jquery plugin is being loaded under some circumstances
15:36 munin`          04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3694 critical, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Items being cataloged are not appearing in the catalog
15:36 hdl             yes
15:36 kf              bug 3694
15:36 owen            hdl still around?
15:33 kf              students will get chance to test and break them next week :)
15:32 kf              so far yes, but only librarian-tested
15:31 wizzyrea        are they working well?
15:31 wizzyrea        :D awesome!
15:31 kf              wizzyrea: selfcheck machines got installed last week in our project library - thx for your help again. we ended up with deactivating renewals, but I think patrons will get more and better information in opac anyway.
15:30 thd             slef: I want people to notice the link and want to make it as prominent as I reasonably can.
15:29 thd             slef: legally the bottom is fine
15:29 slef            thd: courts disagree.  I was looking at email footer case law earlier today for another reason.
15:29 thd             slef: Which is why the credits link on my website is at both the top and the bottom of every page.
15:29 wizzyrea        kf: that would probably be better
15:28 kf              wizzyrea: thinking about adding mine as a note too, but perhaps better add a new bug for this
15:28 wizzyrea        kf, we added a note to 1981
15:28 wizzyrea        yea, e just added it
15:28 thd             slef: footers are designed to be largely ignored.
15:27 slef            thd: I suggest the .com hosting koha.org probably got it wrong because we all didn't hold them to account on it at startup, rather than the content being mislicensed necessarily.
15:27 kf              wizzyrea: but duration of renewal period would be great too, only circ matrix will get bigger and bigger
15:26 kf              wizzyrea: another item on my wish list: number of days before renewal is possible in circ matrix
15:26 thd             I recognise the point.
15:25 slef            thd: yes, but you're missing the point.
15:25 wizzyrea        koha.org is hosted by a US company
15:25 thd             sites
15:25 thd             slef: we were discussing the koha.org site
15:25 hdl             i thought it would be taken when biblibre branch wil be merged
15:24 slef            thd: anyway, I was using your site to suggest that even the best of the koha-linked .coms doesn't permissively license its website, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised that the .com-hosted koha sites haven't quite got it right
15:24 wizzyrea        sweet ty
15:24 owen            Hi DarrellUlm
15:24 hdl             wizzyrea: I think nahuel commited that on 3.2
15:23 kf              wizzyrea: I saw that in biblibres test installation today, so I think we will get it in 3.2
15:23 thd             ... provided the work has no invariant sections.
15:22 thd             slef: I expect that there will be an upgrade path from GFDL to GSFDL in some later version of GFDL.
15:22 thd             slef: GSFDL has been in draft form only for a few years now.
15:21 slef            I didn't realise SFDL wasn't out yet
15:20 thd             I had been waiting for the GSFDL but I might be waiting a very long time.
15:19 slef            thd: I looked at that and didn't see any permissions for the site content.
15:19 wizzyrea        (the report would indicate not, was curious as to why)
15:18 munin`          04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1981 enhancement, P3, ---, chris@bigballofwax.co.nz, NEW, Renewal limit should be in circ matrix
15:18 thd             slef: answering your question about my website better.  There is a context sensitive credits page with relevant licensing information.
15:18 wizzyrea        hdl, did you ever commit anything for bug 1981?
15:16 thd             However even the simple license will not likely be GPL compatible which is a problem for quoting source code.
15:16 |Lupin|         slef: well it's more or less regular text I'd say. It may contain apostrophes, quoes and the like
15:14 thd             I could not find one for GFDL but I wish that FSF would get on with releasing GSFDL so we could discard GFDL in real use.
15:13 slef            oic
15:13 thd             the logos are underneath the text statement.
15:12 slef            |Lupin|: depends what it contains.  Might be safest to put it in a CDATA but that break some things.
15:12 thd             slef: that is a DokuWiki formatting problem
15:12 |Lupin|         I'm wondering: when a text such as a book title is inserted in an XML document, as a node text, does it have to be escaped somehow ?
15:12 slef            thd: showing a CC-BY-SA for FDL
15:11 thd             which icon is wrong?
15:11 thd             slef: I had not thought about that much.
15:11 slef            thd: complete, but one wrong icon and allows non-free-software licensing.
15:10 thd             slef: have a look at the bottom of an old experiment http://kohaldwiki.agogme.com
15:10 slef            nengard: make sure you can prove your employers consented and we don't get work-made-for-hire blowback from anyone.
15:09 slef            thd: where's the licensing notice on agogme.com by the way?
15:09 nengard         thd i can't update the koha.org footer - but i'll put that on the updated versions
15:09 ricardo         owen: Good :)  I have a debugging challenge for you... Private please
15:08 owen            Yes
15:08 ricardo         owen: Are you here?
15:08 thd             nengard: do not forget the or later version at your option part.
15:07 thd             slef: the koha.org website where the manuals are now has GPL 2 license designation at the bottom without an "or later version" invoking statement.
15:07 nengard         thd - yes the gpl - somewhere - or it used to - either way when i move it I'll put one on it
15:06 ricardo         slef: Me? :-0
15:06 slef            Hi DarrellUlm!  Is ricardo scary?
15:06 ricardo         Bye Darrell ...
15:06 slef            thd: I think the rule of thumb may be "if it moved to a liblime.com server, the copyright notice probably got lost in the move". :-(
15:05 ricardo         Hi DarrellUlm ! :)
15:04 slef            Ropuch: as in, you're not allowed to modify it and share those mods
15:04 Ropuch          Don't know yet ;>
15:04 slef            Ropuch: smf is evil, isn't it?
15:04 Ropuch          Guess I'll try both
15:04 slef            http://koha.org/documentation/manual/3.0 links to GPL 2.0 from "Distributed under the GNU GPL license"
15:04 Ropuch          slef: I'm thinking about phpBB or smf, I want to integrate forum with modx
15:03 slef            sorry, 2+
15:03 slef            http://www.kohadocs.org/manuel_koha/ and http://www.kohadocs.org/usersguide/ were GPL 2
15:02 slef            I'm sure the manuals used to have a copyright license statement.
15:02 thd             nengard: Do your Koha manuals have a copyright license statement?
15:01 slef            Ropuch: it depends what you are trying to do.  phpbb is popular.
14:56 Ropuch          Can you recommend me a free forum engine?
14:56 ricardo         That matches the most recent commit that I get with the "http" protocol (and that makes sense)
14:56 thd             where is the license statement for the Koha manuals?
14:55 ricardo         "8316fc92ff9cd56144dadaec262cdc8c376fc236	refs/heads/3.0.x"
14:55 ricardo         http://git.koha.org/pub/scm/koha.git/info/refs
14:55 ricardo         OK. First conclusion: koha.git for "http" is not getting updated:
14:54 ricardo         slef: right. Thanks for the info. Will check that  :)
14:54 slef            see if that gives different results
14:53 slef            or you could try one of the http mirrors on the wiki
14:53 slef            either another http user or someone who knows the server
14:53 slef            ricardo: then you need someone who else can check http
14:53 ricardo         slef: Ah... Thanks for the info. No, here I can't use the git protocol, I'm afraid. I'm behind a "Big Bad Firewall"
14:52 slef            ricardo: can you use git protocol?
14:52 slef            ricardo: actually, it seems likely to me.  http protocol on a dumb http server requires a special git update-server-info command to be run after push. I don't know if that is run on git.koha.org.
14:49 ricardo         8316fc92ff9cd56144dadaec262cdc8c376fc236 German and Italian updates
14:49 ricardo         slef: For that git query, I get:
14:48 ricardo         slef: Thanks... Could this problem be due to me having to clone over http protocol instead of over the git protocol? It doesn't seem likely, but still...
14:44 slef
14:44 slef            ba72e844b5c5197a9bfe8ea89c92b76d94f7e7e2 BugFixing  : 3306
14:44 slef            ; git log -1 '--pretty=oneline' origin/3.0.x
14:43 ricardo         paul_p: Yeah... And there are still some people say that eye sight gets *worse* with aging. Pfff....  ;-)
14:43 paul_p          (note I still love my wife, definetly, but I see now she's not perfect. Fortunatly, she sees i'm not perfect either ;-) )
14:42 ricardo         (One more quote to add... On second thougt, never mind. I don't want to be sued by Paul ;-)
14:41 paul_p          (married 15 years ago)
14:41 ricardo         paul_p: LOL!
14:41 paul_p          (the opposite as in real love affairs: at the beginning, the woman has only qualities, after some years...)
14:40 paul_p          yep, it's because there are too much things to learn. I had the same problem at the beginning. Now, it's better
14:40 ricardo         paul_p: I, on the other hadn think that I have a love-hate relationship with git, eheh
14:39 paul_p          ( did I say I love git ? )
14:39 paul_p          git hint: if you want to see on which branch(es) a patch has been applied : git branch -a --contains <commitSHA>
14:39 slef            nengard: worksforme
14:38 ricardo         slef: Thanks. I appreciate it  :)
14:38 ricardo         |Lupin|: I need to also follow the 3.0.x branch
14:38 slef            ricardo: I'll pull and see what I see on 3.0.x.
14:38 |Lupin|         ricardo: do you really need one ? doesn't origin/master work ?
14:38 slef            ricardo: url = git://git.koha.org/pub/scm/koha.git
14:34 ricardo         slef (and others): What's the URL that you have for "origin" ?
14:33 ricardo         slef: "git show origin/3.0.x" also only shows commits until 30-Sep-2009
14:30 ricardo         slef: "git : - / / " What's that?
14:30 nengard         slef refresh
14:29 slef            nengard: ta
14:29 nengard         slef - hmm - okay off to poke at permissions again
14:28 slef            ricardo: can you see origin/3.0.x on git branch -l -a ?  Can you try git:// or not?
14:28 slef            nengard: "No surveys available; please create one."
14:25 ricardo         slef: " * 3.0.x "
14:24 slef            ricardo: git branch -l says you're on which branch?
14:23 slef            yep
14:23 thd             ${1}0
14:23 slef            ${1} and ${10} I think
14:22 thd             I have forgotten how to avoid backreference $1 bing mistake for undefined backreference $10 in s/(something)/$10/
14:22 ricardo         What am I doing wrong here? :-/
14:22 ricardo         [remote "origin"]         url = http://git.koha.org/pub/scm/koha.git         fetch = +refs/heads/*:refs/remotes/origin/*
14:22 ricardo         Ah, one more note... Here's the setup for "origin":
14:21 ricardo         Did a "git pull". Got "Already up-to-date". But if I do "git log --pretty=fuller" I only get changes until 30 Sep 2009
14:21 ricardo         [branch "3.0.x"]         remote = origin         merge = refs/heads/3.0.x
14:21 ricardo         In .git/config I have:
14:20 ricardo         For all the git gurus here...
14:20 |Lupin|         slef: ok, thanks
14:18 slef            I think I've seen code simply using localtime() (man perlfunc) but that was old and crufty code so might not be the best way.
14:15 |Lupin|         is there a canonical way in Koha scripts to find out the current date with year, month, day and time in separate fields, please ?
14:10 thd             but yes copyleft helps people to trust those they might not have reason to trust if copyleft would be ineffective in a world without copyright protection.
14:08 thd             slef: I know my words were not quite right
14:06 slef            surely you use copyleft licences when you *don't* trust others?
14:05 thd             slef: I think that abolishing copyright as some pirates advocate would discourage cooperation by some over software and take away the trust which people have with others whom they do not know  in sharing with copyleft licenses.
14:01 thd             gmcharlt++
14:01 gmcharlt        slef: only if a free eye patch comes with party membership
14:01 ricardo         Perfect!  ;-)
14:01 munin`          ricardo: Quote #38: "<owen> Holy Bugzilla activity explosion, Batman!" (added by ricardo at 02:00 PM, October 07, 2009)
14:01 ricardo         @quote get 38
14:01 munin`          ricardo: The operation succeeded.  Quote #38 added.
14:01 ricardo         @quote add <owen> Holy Bugzilla activity explosion, Batman!
14:01 slef            thd: I'm trying.  Should I become a pirate?  http://mjray.ukgovoss.org/2009/08/20/green-or-pirate-party-membership/
14:00 thd             slef: You need  to exercise your vote and fix copyright law in the UK :)
14:00 slef            thd: www.statutelaw.gov.uk and look up the Copyright Designs and Patents Act to see the legislation text.
13:59 munin`          ricardo: Quote #15: "<|Lupin|>ricardo: you are like the Portuguese Hitchcock!!" (added by wizzyrea at 02:58 PM, July 10, 2009)
13:59 ricardo         @quote get 15
13:59 munin`          ricardo: (quote get [<channel>] <id>) -- Gets the quote with id <id> from the quote database for <channel>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
13:59 ricardo         @quote get #15
13:59 munin`          ricardo: 2 found: #13: "<atz> ricardo: ask and ye shall receive......." and #15: "<|Lupin|>ricardo: you are like the Portuguese..."
13:59 ricardo         @quote search ricardo
13:59 slef            thd: it allows pretty much no commercial use IIRC.  It's a plaything for rich people and academics.
13:59 gmcharlt        owen: I'm not sure.  Of course, practically speaking the issue would come up only in the context of somebody asserting copyright of the entire bugs database or for individual bugs in a way that is meant to restrict access
13:59 thd             slef: Why is it useless for most people?
13:58 slef            thd: no, we have Fair Dealing which is completely useless for most people.
13:57 thd             slef: do you not have a good approximation which is understandably less permissive in the UK?
13:57 slef            global projects cannot rely on US Fair Use
13:57 |Lupin|         hi again
13:57 gmcharlt        and a vote
13:57 owen            In what context is the licensing an issue? Migrating the database to another host? Something else?
13:57 slef            thd: WE DO NOT HAVE FAIR USE.  Sorry for shouting, but USians need to recognise that it's a local quirk.
13:57 gmcharlt        presumably there should at least be any email to the mailing lists stating that we want to apply an explicit license
13:56 slef            I'm pretty sure that patches are implicitly licensed under the GPL by virtue of being offered to a code-is-GPL project.  Each step away from that is a bit less safe, though.
13:56 thd             gmcharlt:  Most bug reports could be quoted as fair use without problem in any case.
13:56 gmcharlt        but putting in an agreement right away is putting the cart before the horse
13:55 gmcharlt        or at any rate, nobody had made any requests
13:55 gmcharlt        I don't recall that licensing content in bugs.koha.org has come up before
13:55 slef            thd: I forget the reason for the dump.  I'll check, but let's eat the licensing-check elephant one bite at a time.
13:55 thd             own: do you mean changing the lack of a license statement on bugs.koha.org?
13:55 gmcharlt        slef: I've updated the BZ admin email address
13:54 owen            slef: gmcharlt said at one time that he would contact Clay at LibLime to get that changed, I don't know if that happened or not.
13:54 thd             slef: gmcharlt had provided a link to a dump of the Bugzilla database for you in the same message as one about the wiki for identifying contributors presumably.
13:52 slef            gmcharlt: chris: can either of you update that?
13:52 slef            "you can contact the maintainer of this Bugzilla installation at gmc@liblime.com" - oh really?
13:52 ricardo         hdl: I think that change would be OK, but then I suggest that you also add a change to the System Preferences code to refuse enabling "QueryAutoTruncate" and that explains that it may not be enabled if NOT using Zebra
13:52 slef            there should be an agreement offered on http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/createaccount.cgi but there is not.  Yet Another Thing To Fix.
13:50 slef            thd: maybe not, but could still not be created without having read any of koha's code.
13:49 thd             slef: most bug reports have no code attached.
13:48 thd             slef: Is there any statement about licensing for bugs.koha.org?
13:48 slef            the grey area will be enhancements which are more contribs than patches... let me guess: it's not stated on bugs.koha.org?
13:47 slef            thd: should be GPL, because they're derived works of the koha code.
13:46 thd             slef: What is the license for Bugzilla contributions?
13:45 slef            thd: yes
13:45 thd             slef: are you back?
13:38 ricardo         hdl: Sorry... phone
13:35 hdl             line 999 of C4/Search.pm
13:34 hdl             would it be ok for you ?
13:34 hdl             We could add $auto_truncation=0
13:34 hdl             }
13:34 hdl             $fuzzy_enabled = 0;
13:34 hdl             $weight_fields = 0;
13:34 hdl             $stemming      = 0;
13:34 hdl             if ( C4::Context->preference("NoZebra") ) {
13:33 hdl             )
13:33 hdl             There is already such a condition (or was
13:31 ricardo         hdl: Hmmm... And what about adding an additional condition to that "if (QueryAutoTruncate) ON" condition is enabled to check if Zebra is enabled (and only compare also with "kw" if Zebra is NOT enabled)?
13:27 hdl             yes. would make some trouble in zebra. Since it would disable autotruncation for general searches ;)
13:26 hdl_lunch       QueryAutoTruncate is to automatically look for operands as truncated words.
13:26 ricardo         hdl_lunch:  but is there any problem with my proposed patch (adding the "kw" to that line)?
13:25 ricardo         hdl_lunch: For me, there's no problem... I don't even know what "QueryAutoTruncate" /query truncation is :D
13:24 hdl_lunch       mmm... I guess we should disable that when NoZebra is used. Unless it really is usefull for you.
13:23 ricardo         hdl_lunch: Hi... Apparently yes: "QueryAutoTruncate" is set to ON (but I think that's the default because I don't remember ever changing it)
13:20 jwagner         Speaking of bugzilla, I'd like to run a report that shows me every bug I'm cc'd on, but I can't figure out how.  I tried going under Reports, but when I select the CC etc. contains field, it tells me You didn't define any axes to plot.  How do I set one up?  I want to be able to keep an eye on all the bugs I'm monitoring, not just the ones I've reported.
13:16 nahuel          But i'm seeing that there is a huge list of non-applied patches
13:16 jwagner         Darn.  I thought you were going to fix everything that was outstanding :-)
13:16 nahuel          set as fixed
13:15 nahuel          and "fix" them
13:15 nahuel          I'm verifying that they are cleaned applied
13:15 nahuel          héhé, It's all my assigned bugs that have already been pushed
13:15 jwagner         All the bug reports you've been closing :-)
13:14 nahuel          jwagner, what do you mean ?
13:14 nahuel          what ?
13:14 jwagner         nahuel, have you decided to single-handedly fix everything???
13:13 owen            Holy Bugzilla activity explosion, Batman!
13:02 hdl_lunch       ricardo : are you using QueryAutoTruncate ?
12:53 kf              jwagner: schön zu hören / nice to hear that :)
12:52 jwagner         owen, they probably edited it out!
12:52 jwagner         sehr gut, kf!
12:52 owen            jwagner: I'll be sure to check the log for "lost time" ;)
12:52 kf              hi jwagner - how are you?
12:51 munin`          04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3559 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, chris@bigballofwax.co.nz, ASSIGNED, Zotero does not work on opac detail page with xslt on
12:51 kf              gmcharlt: checking on my bugs right now - can you perhaps check for bug 3559? chris sent a patch for this, but I think it was not pushed yet
12:51 jwagner         owen, I don't think you missed much.  Except for the part where we stopped logging and voted to make you responsible for all the new bug reports :-)
12:51 owen            chris++ for the new #koha log
12:50 * owen          is reading through the meeting log
12:50 owen            Hi jdavidb
12:50 jdavidb         mornin', owen.
12:42 custard         night.
12:40 kmkale          bye all
12:34 nahuel          scuse me :)
12:34 nahuel          arf ok
12:34 gmcharlt        shows that it *was* applied
12:34 gmcharlt        nahuel: git log | grep 'Report to user the connections errors to z39.50 server, like timeout(10007), and refused(10000).'
12:32 nahuel          I don't find it on git log
12:32 munin`          04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2688 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com, NEW, z3950_search.pl does not reports connection failure
12:32 nahuel          gmcharlt, bug 2688 was not applied on head :(
12:26 gmcharlt        slef: I have emailed you the email addresses
12:14 thd             slef: You do not need to be a copyright holder to defend your rights but you need to be an interested party..
12:14 slef            now I go lunch.  meeting summary is on the wiki
12:14 slef            thd: the FSFEurope's FLA can address the first problem; the second is to be decided.
12:13 slef            thd: two problems with that.  Firstly, copyright assignment is not recognised globally (moral rights in most Roman-style legal systems); secondly, it assumes that copyright assignment is worthwhile.
12:12 thd             slef: The GNU project gives a grant back to all developers which people at SPI know and is the right way to assign copyright preserving autonomy of contributors.
12:11 slef            thd: as the recent French case http://fsffrance.org/news/article2009-09-22.en.html shows, it's no longer only the copyright holder who can enforce public licensing.
12:10 slef            thd: not for sure.  I think it's because it preserves contributor autonomy.
12:10 thd             slef: do you know why SPI discourages people from assigning code to it?
12:07 thd             The text page has more information than could ever fit in the chart people should see both.
12:06 thd             slef I have updated the text page but not the chart yet.
12:06 thd             and actually IFLA probably is not set up to hold any assets of affiliated organisations.
12:06 slef            I should link that gmane discussion from the cons of the chart... going to
12:05 thd             all the options have drawbacks certainly.
12:05 slef            but you know, all of the interim options have some drawback with the asset handling
12:04 thd             form a foundation now is really form a foundation later option
12:04 slef            if we could get them all in one room, probably two afternoons would suffice
12:04 slef            165 people spread around the world, no less
12:04 thd             Exactly.
12:04 thd             slef: I mean how long do you think it would take 165 or more people to agree?
12:04 slef            thd: depends if we can agree on using a particular set of model rules.  If so, probably a few months?
12:03 thd             slef: How long do you think it would take to agree upon all the bylaws etc. for an independent foundation?
12:02 slef            thd: idealism may be more important than speed to some.  After all, we have dragged this out over 3 years now.
12:02 thd             slef: I am concerned that the form a foundation now option is a choice of the uninformed.
12:01 slef            I suspect we may need to focus on that a bit in the second survey to see if it is viable (who will donate time, money or other things?)
12:01 thd             slef: I have yet to answer you on the list but I think you would have more influence on the Conservancy than on SPI because of the relative sizes of the organisations.
12:00 slef            I'll wait to see how strong the view on the independent formation was until I read the data myself.  Currently summarising the meeting.
11:59 slef            IMO the biggest negative for the Conservancy is that it's accountable only to the US government, not its users.
11:58 slef            not sure if they were temporary though
11:58 slef            !!! SPI is an all-volunteer organisation too... except for the bookkeeper who I think gets paid
11:57 thd             slef: Well I read what people said in the comments in the raw data.
11:57 thd             slef: no its a question of resources for an all volunteer organisation.
11:57 slef            thd: have you done a better analysis than the summary in the PDF?
11:56 slef            thd: consequence of being lawyer-led and more conservative, do you think?
11:56 thd             slef: the majority picked form an independent formation now.
11:56 thd             slef: the biggest negative for the Conservancy is that they have a 3-6 month waiting list so that they can give every project enough attention.
11:55 slef            thd: they've done it quite a lot now.
11:54 thd             slef: that is very speedy.
11:54 slef            then it is a function of lawyer time
11:53 slef            thd: at least two weeks.  Depends if you hit legal questions.
11:53 thd             davi: I will not pester you for not being willing to state the reasons for your assertions but the issues need discussing on the mailing list as part of an informed discussion.
11:51 thd             davi: Why do you think SPI the best choice?
11:50 thd             davi: I think that we have no bad choices really.
11:50 davi            no comment
11:49 thd             davi: SPI certainly has the best governance process and the most prominence but I am not persuaded that best governance is enough.
11:44 davi            I do not know the background too much, but I think SPI would be the best option if we will not create our own association from the start
11:37 thd             slef: How long does it take to have a project accepted at SPI?
11:35 thd             The Zotero suit was over the DMCA I think and I know that France now has a similar law but at least not patents over software yet.
11:33 thd             slef: Thomson probably would have pursued that anywhere but the EU does not recognise software patents yet which reduces the scariest risk.
11:31 slef            thd: I saw it, yes.
11:31 thd             slef: I assume that you know about the lawsuit over Zotero.
11:30 thd             slef: yes, I agree there needs to be some presence in major countries but for the most important assets the US has a small but real risk.
11:28 brendan         see you all in a bit
11:28 slef            thd: but other places are accessible to fewer people and would get fewer tax-exempt donations.  Pros and cons either way.
11:28 kmkale          yeh this IS a good time for meetings
11:28 custard         and my thanks to those that decided this was a good time for a meeting :)
11:28 hdl_laptop      thx gmcharlt
11:28 sekjal          time to get ready for work
11:28 * sekjal        stretches.
11:27 ricardo         OK. Lunch time now (really!) Take care everyone and thanks again  :)
11:26 ricardo         gmcharlt: "Mailing List" = koha@lists.katipo.co.nz right ?
11:26 vickiteal       Breakfast time for me! Bye!
11:25 thd             slef: the US is prone to litigation culturally.  Other places can be safer.
11:25 Joann           Ricardo: cheeky man ... its almost half after midnight
11:24 thd             slef: not trapping assets is good if the tax laws or rules in other jurisdictions do not trap them.
11:24 ricardo         Joann: Bedtime? Are you kidding? It's lunch time (12H23 PM). What do you mean by "Not in New Zealand"?  ;-)
11:24 ricardo         gmcharlt: Great, many thanks (to you and all)... This meeting took much less time than I anticipated
11:23 slef            ok, thanks all
11:23 slef            thd: how is that better?  SPI are affiliated with German and I forget what other association(s).
11:23 Joann           ok. Good night all. Way past my bedtime :)
11:23 gmcharlt        thanks to everybody
11:23 gmcharlt        and again on the 4th for the general IRC meeting
11:23 gmcharlt        we'll meet again on the 29th for foundation-forming
11:23 gmcharlt        I declare this meeting over
11:23 * gmcharlt      encourages that discussion to take place on the mailing list, btw
11:23 thd             slef: The only better answer I had from the Software Freedom Conservancy is that there is a French conservancy with which they are affiliated.
11:23 gmcharlt        ok
11:22 thd             slef: I had a similar answer from the Software Freedom Conservancy
11:22 slef            thd: no answer on that yet.  Needs chasing.  Feel free to nudge if you have a mo.
11:21 thd             slef: The problem as you pointed out is that non-spendable assets are trapped in the US.
11:20 ricardo         gmcharlt: OK, thanks for clearing that up
11:20 davi            sorry for the cuts
11:20 gmcharlt        the version on the wiki is the authoritative version at present
11:20 kmkale          thats past midnight in India
11:20 gmcharlt        no
11:20 ricardo         Is http://www.kohadocs.org/codingguidelines.html content integrated in http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:codingguidelines ?
11:19 ricardo         gmcharlt: One small thing...
11:18 gmcharlt        anything else before I declare this meeting closed?
11:18 gmcharlt        ok, we seem to have run through our agenda
11:18 nengard         and that's noon in CA - I think :) so it would be find for me (that's where I'll be)
11:17 nengard         it seems like 19 UTC worked well for the last foundation meeting - lots of people were there
11:17 slef            nengard: any time better for you than others?
11:17 gmcharlt        and 19:00 UTC+0 worked for the first foundation-forming meeting
11:17 gmcharlt        keeping with our cycle, let's do 19:00 UTC+0 for the 4 November meeting
11:17 slef            both were pencilled in at 19 UTC
11:16 thd             what times?
11:16 gmcharlt        and 4 Novmeber for the next general meeting
11:16 slef            thd: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.org.spi.general/917
11:16 gmcharlt        ok, 10/29 for the foundation IRC meeting
11:15 slef            29th looks OK for me
11:15 slef            nengard: thanks
11:15 slef            thd: yes, see the link I eamiled to the list.
11:15 nengard         slef i'll email you and work closely with you on fixing the survey
11:15 thd             slef: Did you have an answer from SPI about transferring assets to a non-US non-profit?
11:15 slef            thd: can you summarise to koha@lists soon, request for comments and we'll add any that gets really strong support
11:15 hdl_laptop      ok for me.
11:14 nengard         I'll be at a hotel all day that day :) hehe
11:14 nengard         and I vote for the 29th
11:14 nengard         gmcharlt self agreed
11:14 gmcharlt        nengard: of course, 27 or 29 October woudl be optins as well
11:14 gmcharlt        in any event, I gree with slef that assuming that we can agree on a course of action, we should try to avoid unlimited deadlines for dsicussion
11:14 thd             I have also discovered more options for a holding foundation
11:13 nengard         I'll be out of town and presenting on that date ... but it depends on the time and i guess as long as my opinion is in the poll i'll be okay
11:13 slef            nengard: it has been discussed pretty much to death over the last 3.5 years.  We need to divide on the possible actions and then build a consensus around the most viable of them.
11:13 gmcharlt        10/28, perhaps?
11:12 gmcharlt        ok, then it looks like we'll need a new date for a foundation-specific meeting
11:12 slef            gmcharlt: I think we've drifted a few days, so if the new poll is also two weeks, 19 Oct is too soon.
11:12 nengard         discussion is always going to get us better ideas than a poll
11:12 nengard         gmcharlt yes - but I'd like to see some more discussion on the mailing list or IRC so that people can explain why they think certain options make sense
11:11 slef            maybe we should fix a time in a few days to draft the second poll while on IRC so more people can input?
11:11 * nengard       has a furry baby girl on her mouse (off topic - but cute)
11:11 gmcharlt        so as I understand it, the next steps are (1) a new poll and (2) a foundation meeting on 19 October?
11:10 nengard         we will do much better this time :)
11:10 slef            thd: the against/no-opinion overlap was because doodle is quick+poor.  I had hoped we'd drop the bottom few options from the ranking survey, but nengard and I didn't communicate well.
11:09 thd             slef: yes, even I did not understand the overlap for the straw poll.
11:09 nengard         so far
11:09 nengard         that's all we know
11:09 nengard         marshall breeding send out a pdf of a registration of the foundation to the mailing lilst
11:08 slef            ricardo: not I.  Check it hasn't been done, though.
11:08 ricardo         Does anyone oppose asking LibLime for the current status of "their" KSF (Koha Software Foundation) on the Koha mailing list (with Cc to Joshua Ferraro)? Things like charter / statutes (if they have been set up). Or does anyone here already have that info, by now?
11:08 slef            thd: the doodle straw poll was for/against, but smaller audience and no "don't care" options.
11:08 nengard         I have been given tips on how to improve that from those who know the software
11:08 nengard         and my lack of knowledge of how to limit it
11:07 nengard         yes - the fact that you had to pick from 17 options was a bad design decision on my part
11:07 thd             gmcharlt: Only ranking was a given option.
11:07 thd             gmcharlt: by not interested or opposed I was referring to particular goals for any foundation.
11:07 nengard         okay - i can do that
11:06 gmcharlt        we can make sure that the poll includes explicit options to do nothing
11:06 thd             nengard: That is what I had thought but a statement made me doubt that.
11:06 slef            Anyway, I don't think I'll have that ready before Monday.
11:06 nengard         comparison chart here: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:organisations:koha_project_organisation:forming:kohaheldbyfoundation
11:06 gmcharlt        thd: I think we have to decide that if somebody is not interested in responding to the poll and have no opinion on the matter, that we not give any great weight to that
11:06 slef            off the top of my head, I'm thinking ANOVA but I'd look at my reference books to check
11:05 nengard         at least that's how i understood it
11:05 nengard         the first was just to guage where we were before the research
11:05 nengard         thd there is only supposed to be one more poll - a final poll after everyone researches the options
11:05 slef            paul_p: we can analyse them all with a proper stats package
11:05 paul_p          and sum() the result
11:05 thd             If we have to many polls, however,  people will lose interest.
11:05 paul_p          analysing 2 is better, but maybe we could analyse up to 5, with #1 = 10points, #2 = 8, #3=6 ...
11:05 slef            nengard: yes, thanks for that
11:04 nengard         hence the reason I sent all the results along with the PDF :)
11:04 paul_p          just analysing the 1st is not enough, for sure
11:04 thd             We have no knowledge if people are opposed to a foundation doing any of those things or whether people have no opinion.
11:04 slef            ok, we'll see what comes out when we do some better stats tests on it
11:03 nengard         based on the totals
11:03 nengard         slef - that is based on the numbers given to the first and second rank questions
11:03 slef            Is that an impression, or have you done a more robust analysis of the ranking?
11:03 thd             Yes, I think a poll needs to have explanatory wording and not presume that people understand the intent perfectly from previous discussion.
11:03 nengard         any comments/questions/ideas?
11:03 nengard         anyone else?
11:02 nengard         then the top 2 things people want the foundation to do are hold the trademark and then the domain
11:01 nengard         slef seems to me that most people wanted to form a foundation of our own - hence my comment on the error in making the survey the wya I did
11:00 slef            I need to analyse the raw data to see how it compares to the poll because it's not obvious from the PDF.  What conclusions would you draw?
11:00 nengard         I also think we decided on the mailing list that the option to build a foundation is the eventual goal - but not the goal of this original research
10:59 nengard         the point was to guage our opinions before reseraching the options
10:59 nengard         and want you all to know I was learning how to use a new package - I'm going to recreate the survey taking all suggestions into account
10:59 nengard         I got a lot of comments on the survey itself
10:58 nengard         herea re the notes/inks: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes09sep15
10:58 paul_p          (note I immediatly understood the mistake when reading the result ;-) )
10:58 nengard         hehe
10:58 ricardo         nengard: No problem... I was finding it VERY strange to have more than 1000 people answering
10:58 paul_p          nengard: shame on you. I thought at 1st glance that 1500ppl answered the survey, that was awesome ! now, I see just 120, it's great, but not so much ;-)
10:57 nengard         okay gmcharlt
10:57 nengard         okay - foundation - first - sorry all for the mistakes in the numbers and results - i gave you all the results from my open source survey
10:57 gmcharlt        nengard: just make sure not the duplicate work - tajoli has already done much of that
10:56 nengard         if we all agree on comments
10:56 nengard         I'll follow up on it - like i said, i don't mind documenting the tables
10:56 ricardo         wb davi
10:56 gmcharlt        ok, let's move on to the foundation
10:56 gmcharlt        not sure if anybody followed up on it
10:56 gmcharlt        he had started a thread on koha-devel after the Sept meeting
10:56 gmcharlt        yes, this was tajoli  - and I agree to move this to the ML
10:55 slef            gmcharlt: was this from tajoli?  Not here this meeting AFAICT.  Move to email list?
10:55 gmcharlt        yeah, I think the mechanics were actually the main topic of dispute last meeting
10:55 nengard         guideline
10:54 nengard         maybe a new guidline - if you edit a sql table add comments to the table :)
10:54 paul_p          would be very usefull for beginners to know what tables / rows are done for
10:54 paul_p          (it didn't exist on mySQL 3, when koha 1 was released, but now, it's possible)
10:54 nengard         paul_p I can do that too
10:54 paul_p          nengard: what would be usefull would be to add comments on the SQL itself
10:53 nengard         I can probably add some of this to the manual/wiki but would need some help on certain tables
10:53 nengard         what do want on the schema documentation?
10:53 nengard         is this: http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=blob_plain;f=installer/data/mysql/kohastructure.sql;hb=HEAD not enough?
10:52 kmkale          reed :my laptop would die ;)
10:52 gmcharlt        "
10:52 gmcharlt        Mysql Schema Documentation
10:52 gmcharlt        next is "#
10:52 reed            kmkale, virtualbox or other virtual machine configs are pretty handy for that
10:52 gmcharlt        ok, moving on unless there's more to say on BZ
10:51 kmkale          ok
10:51 nahuel          kmkale, and koha-conf files
10:51 gmcharlt        kmkale: pretty much
10:51 kmkale          separate datbases and apache sites?
10:50 kmkale          one query on this. how can I run multiple versions of koha on a single machine?
10:50 nengard         thanks to chris and gmcharlt!! they gave me the instructions and I just put it on the wiki
10:50 kf              nengard: I found your tutorial about how to make database changes very useful!
10:49 Ropuch          That's so true ;>
10:49 nengard         which ties into the previous topic :) if we all learned more we might feel comfortable doing that :) hehe
10:49 gmcharlt        as well as people volunteering to go in and look at bugs and test and close them out
10:48 gmcharlt        I think this one mostly depends on people volunteering to become default assignee for various components
10:48 gmcharlt        '
10:48 gmcharlt        Bugzilla default assignees and maintenance
10:48 gmcharlt        next is '#
10:48 nengard         I think that's about it on tutorials - if we want to move on
10:47 sekjal          I've got a list of enhancement requests from my staff a couple pages long
10:47 sekjal          no guarantees, of course; I don't have that kind of authority.  but we really want to get prepared to start contributing code
10:47 nengard         sekjal that would be great
10:46 sekjal          I'll talk to my boss
10:46 sekjal          perhaps those of us particularly interested in getting tutored soon could get our institutions to agree to some kind of sponsorship...
10:45 nengard         the wiki lists possible software and options and volunteers - so if you can volunteer - just set up a meeting and invite us all via the mailing lists :)
10:45 nengard         that said - we all seem to be busy with getting 3.2 out - so I do understand the balancing act
10:44 nengard         and having an expert show them would make them feel better and get more people contributing/bug fixing
10:44 kmkale          yeh I am still trying to get my head around the templating sustem itself ;)
10:44 nengard         many people expressed an interest but a fear of not doing things right
10:44 sekjal          and it would be a good chance for us to test some tools before KohaCon '10
10:44 sekjal          nengard:  yes
10:43 nengard         I'd say - anything is better than nothing - but more detailed videos - or a live webinar would be best to make people feel comfortable bout jumping in and editing code etc etc
10:43 hdl_laptop      But you cannot see the mouse
10:43 nengard         hehe
10:43 hdl_laptop      when you replay slowly....
10:42 gmcharlt        hdl_laptop: but for testing purposes - can you make the equivalent of a screencast of it for training somebody?
10:42 ricardo         hdl_laptop: right, thanks
10:42 hdl_laptop      ricardo: yes
10:42 hdl_laptop      so that it can be replayed afterwards.
10:42 ricardo         hdl_laptop: http://seleniumhq.org/  ?
10:41 hdl_laptop      It records the web activity of your browser
10:41 thd             ricardo: They might only because the GPL is not a documentation license.  The problem comes when quoting code.  The GPL and GFDL are not compatible.
10:41 nengard         hdl_laptop - I'm not sure what a Selenium test is?
10:41 hdl_laptop      nengard: could Selenium tests be integrated in 'Tutorials' ?
10:41 kmkale          thanks nengrad
10:41 kmkale          yes I remember
10:41 nengard         and ask questions in a webinar format
10:40 nengard         kmkale we talked about experts training us newbies using some sort of screen sharing app so that we could see how things were done
10:40 kmkale          * tutorial
10:40 nengard         I plan on putting together video tutorials once 3.2 is released with usage information to go along with the manual - but that's not quite what we're talking about here
10:40 kmkale          how so a live demo of a tutoril?
10:39 nengard         I wrote a few up as gmcharlt and chris taught me how to do things, but we could use more - and we still havne't had any live demos
10:39 gmcharlt        http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:documentation:tutorials
10:39 gmcharlt        first up, Koha Tutorials
10:39 gmcharlt        let's try to keep this brief so that we can move on to the foundation followup
10:39 gmcharlt        next are follow-ups from the last IRC meeting
10:38 ricardo         gmcharlt: OK, thanks
10:38 gmcharlt        ricardo: correct
10:38 ricardo         slef: So, if I'm reading that page correctly, no one has voted on it yet, right?
10:38 slef            gmcharlt: I propose that we move on.
10:37 slef            If not, I look forward to those listed voting on Friday-Sunday-ish.
10:37 slef            ok, any other questions?
10:36 ricardo         slef / davi: OK. Thanks for the explanation  :)
10:36 slef            ricardo: the escape clause I think means that even FSF acknowledges that FDL is not great for wikis.
10:36 slef            ricardo: yes, but we'd need at least dual-licensing with GPL; also, wikis have had an escape clause to CC-BY under the FDL.
10:36 davi            GFDL add the attribution invariant sections, which IMHO does not add any value in our case
10:35 ricardo         slef: One question... Doesn't FSF "lead" people towards the GFDL for documentation (instead of the GPL)? Just asking
10:35 hdl_laptop      ok for me
10:35 gmcharlt        http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=relicensing
10:35 slef            everyone, please, if you recognise a username and think they might have changed email or not see a bulk email, let them know.
10:35 hdl_laptop      Is there a url for the ballot ?
10:34 gmcharlt        that's fine with me
10:34 slef            gmcharlt: between 9 October and 11 October 2009 (UTC)
10:34 slef            gmcharlt: thanks.  Any time before tomorrow? ;-)  Are the dates OK for people otherwise?
10:34 gmcharlt        cool
10:33 slef            gmcharlt: one other thing: I will make the ballot more explicit than "this change".  Instead it will say "the change to the GPL"
10:33 gmcharlt        slef: no problem - I can give you the email addresses of the registered voters
10:32 slef            gmcharlt: I could not commit to sending emails because I do not have the user database in the wiki dump I have.
10:32 slef            gmcharlt: I need to add a "duplicate username" section to the ballot, but does anyone have any comments apart from that?
10:32 paul_p          (I had to paste the complete url from a 3.0 ;-) )
10:31 gmcharlt        http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=relicensing
10:31 paul_p          hdl_laptop: missing buttons on members (to add a member, or modify permissions. I suspect granular perms are missing
10:31 ricardo         hdl_laptop: I have a testing interface for UNIMARC + NoZebra. I'm not sure how I should secure it from possible "attacks" though... Maybe set up a cron job that restores the Koha MySQL database from some good known state.
10:31 gmcharlt        let's move on to 3. Review Wiki Relicensing Ballot
10:31 hdl_laptop      thx paul_p.
10:31 paul_p          hdl_laptop & all: http://biblibre_head.git.biblibre.com/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl test / test now working
10:31 slef            This is a good idea, but hard to do well.
10:31 gmcharlt        have we exhausted the topic of 3.0?
10:31 hdl_laptop      in order to make tests
10:30 hdl_laptop      I think there are some commited
10:30 ricardo         hdl_laptop: Eheh... True  :)
10:30 gmcharlt        hdl_laptop: if you need MARC21 data, I can supply it
10:30 hdl_laptop      And Zebra and NoZebra too (should we not ricardo ? ;) )
10:29 kf              hdl_laptop: I think thats a good idea!
10:29 hdl_laptop      But we should have then MARC21 and UNIMARC interfaces.
10:29 slef            I have reassigned that bug to hdl_laptop
10:29 hdl_laptop      So that ppl can have a reference for testing and closing bugs.
10:28 hdl_laptop      I propose to open a testing interface for 3.0.x
10:28 nengard         slef - true and I do go in and test a bunch of those when I document the feature - in fact I close a lot of bugs after I document the features
10:28 gmcharlt        slef: yes, that case is different
10:28 ricardo         gmcharlt: *nod*
10:28 gmcharlt        and if the reporter isn't available, ideally by somebody other than the person who made the patch
10:28 slef            nengard: in the case of forwarded-from-vendor bugs, the patch writer will be the reporter
10:28 nengard         they should be tested by the reporter
10:28 nengard         we talked about this at the last meeting - and all promised to go test our open bugs and close them if they were done - the problem is that the patch writer shouldn't be closing bugs
10:27 slef            hdl_laptop++
10:27 davi            not me, I have one which I have not done anything yet
10:27 gmcharlt        hdl_laptop++
10:27 slef            kf: yes. anyone: please do if you can.  I think we have no long-term QA manager.
10:27 * gmcharlt      encourages somebody to do so, please
10:27 hdl_laptop      Will pick that up.
10:27 slef            the first hasn't changed since January... anyone want to pick it up?
10:26 kf              I think many bugs remain open although the bug is fixed - can somebody else test and close too?
10:26 slef            the second looks done, again
10:25 munin`          04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3432 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com, ASSIGNED, Returning lost items
10:25 ricardo         gmcharlt: *nod*
10:25 munin`          04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2830 critical, P3, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Hold not removed when "trapped" item on hold shelf is checked out to a different patron in the holds queue
10:25 slef            we've also got bug 2830 and bug 3432 in the critical column for 3.0.4
10:25 ricardo         hdl_laptop: I understand that you're swamped in work and I really appreciate your great work. I would just want to know if the patch will be commited for 3.0.4 (when you have the time to read it)
10:25 gmcharlt        although maybe we should think about adding a status to indicate that a bug is believed to be fixed (patch pushed, in particular) but that we're awaiting confirmation from the original bug reporter
10:25 slef            ok, as long as they're done, no problem... just stealing the QA hat for a mo
10:24 hdl_laptop      I should have.
10:24 hdl_laptop      I have not announced path pushed and ask for closing.
10:24 gmcharlt        which would be OK, if the patch hasn't been pushed yet or is still awaiting testing
10:23 slef            ok, both bugs are marked as patch-sent, but are still open
10:23 munin`          04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3689 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, ricmarques@spamcop.net, ASSIGNED, Searching for a single keyword returns no results, although they exist
10:23 ricardo         Bug 3689
10:22 hdl_laptop      patch pushed
10:22 hdl_laptop      and bug 3678 has been adressed by nahuel
10:22 slef            ta
10:21 hdl_laptop      will cherry pick if not already done ;)
10:21 munin`          04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3678 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com, ASSIGNED, Reserved biblionumber not detected
10:21 munin`          04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3306 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti@biblibre.com, ASSIGNED, ReturnBeforeExpiry and RenewalPeriodBase problems
10:20 slef            I see bug 3306 and bug 3678 seem to be blocking the release
10:20 nengard         but that are still translatable
10:20 ricardo         hdl_laptop: *nod*
10:20 hdl_laptop      (should be 3.2)
10:20 nengard         hdl_laptop - nicolas and i talked and are looking into easier options than docbook to update
10:20 hdl_laptop      It should be easier to translate.
10:20 rafael          I have just arrived. Finally!!!
10:19 hdl_laptop      nengard: is working on docbook for documentation.
10:19 ricardo         Hi rafael! Didn't see you there  :)
10:19 hdl_laptop      congratulations.
10:19 rafael          we are on the process to translate all unimarc frameworks for portuguese and after that a complete manual
10:19 hdl_laptop      I would like to release official before 14 Oct.
10:18 ricardo         hdl_laptop: So, it's fine by me if 3.0.4 only has the updated translation of PO files
10:18 ricardo         hdl_laptop: "pt-PT" translation is almost finished, yes... at least the PO files (will also translate UNIMARC frameworks, but that work may only be finished by the end of this month)...
10:18 chris           yep
10:18 chris           and dutch
10:18 hdl_laptop      And we could release next week.
10:18 hdl_laptop      But I think that we can get some more in the next few days.
10:18 kf              :)
10:17 chris           and polish
10:17 hdl_laptop      German is also thx kf ;)
10:17 hdl_laptop      PT-pt is translated
10:17 hdl_laptop      And French OPAC has been all suggested.
10:17 hdl_laptop      I announced that translation work was to be done.
10:16 hdl_laptop      We have been testing that over the last 2 weeks.
10:16 hdl_laptop      ok 3.0
10:15 hdl_laptop      no other ppl want to speak on 3.2?
10:15 slef            Longer term, yeah, they'll sell more to Koha-using libraries, but they're a bit sceptical about the value of that at the mo. EOL
10:15 gmcharlt        ok, let's move on to 3.0 : hdl_laptop?
10:14 slef            Not for them, anyway.
10:14 slef            I ask other developers to refrain from caustic comments about how easy/hard it is to clean up code - our non-contracted collaborators *do* read the lists, *do* see those comments and it *does* discourage them from helping.  Often there's no benefit in giving back in the short term.
10:14 hdl_laptop      and Search is also a place of choice for bug fixes.
10:13 hdl_laptop      best integration of all the features added for instance ExtendedAttributes.
10:13 paul_p          just 2 things missing in new_acq, that we expect to work soon on: improving pdf generation, and choosing delivery place
10:13 hdl_laptop      And we are also working on some refactoring for item inputs
10:12 sekjal          biblibre++, indeed
10:12 kf              biblibre++
10:12 ricardo         s/theis/their
10:12 ricardo         All kidding aside. Thumbs up to Biblibre! (Paul, Henri and theis other colleagues)
10:12 slef            Sorry that we've been reacting to customer requests for the new academic year rather than cleaning/publishing.
10:12 * gmcharlt      just had a wicked thought: *don't* create a test account, and really find out how secure Koha is ;)
10:12 paul_p          ricardo: lol
10:11 ricardo         paul_p: What you're complaining about... It's the proof that it's a very secure system  ;-)
10:11 gmcharlt        cool
10:11 hdl_laptop      so I will create test/test
10:11 paul_p          hdl_laptop: none of them works
10:10 hdl_laptop      or biblibre/reblibib
10:10 hdl_laptop      But test/test might work
10:10 andy            oopse, hi ... (Andy Chilton, Catalyst)
10:10 hdl_laptop      will create one
10:10 davi            hi
10:10 paul_p          hdl_laptop: login/password ?
10:10 hdl_laptop      newacq is integrated on that branch
10:10 nahuel          :)
10:10 hdl_laptop      many things improved.
10:10 nahuel          hi
10:09 paul_p          ( http://biblibre_head.git.biblibre.com )
10:09 hdl_laptop      and catalogue.biblibre_head.git.biblibre.com
10:09 hdl_laptop      com
10:09 hdl_laptop      results can also be tested on biblibre_head.git.biblibre.
10:09 gmcharlt        BibLibre++
10:09 hdl_laptop      You can see that in git.biblibre.com
10:08 hdl_laptop      And even our work in progress
10:08 hdl_laptop      gathering all our work.
10:08 hdl_laptop      We have made a branch over master
10:08 gmcharlt        (not much more to say than extneding my apologies, of course)
10:08 gmcharlt        beyond, that, I don't have much to say unless people would like to talk a bit about what they've been up to, coding-wise
10:08 chris           sweet
10:07 gmcharlt        however, the dust is settling, and I'll be pulling together an alpha release before the 4 November 2009 meeting come hell or high water
10:07 slef            amen!
10:07 gmcharlt        as I'm sure it's been obvious, september has not been a good month for me, workload wise
10:06 gmcharlt        so for first agenda item, 3.2
10:06 gmcharlt        yes
10:06 slef            thd: notes/actions and transcript I think
10:05 thd             which wiki updates?
10:05 gmcharlt        thanks
10:05 slef            gmcharlt: yes, I can
10:05 gmcharlt        slef: before we get started, are you willing to do the wiki updates?
10:05 gmcharlt        ok, cool
10:04 thd             Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:04 ricardo         ricardo = Ricardo Dias Marques, author of installation guide of Koha in openSUSE and contributor/approver to Portuguese translation, Portugal
10:04 reed            Reed Wade, Catalyst, NZ
10:04 kmkale          Koustubha Kale, Anant Corporation, Granthalaya.org
10:03 Colin           Colin Campbell - PTFS-Europe
10:03 hdl_laptop      Henri-Damien LAURENT BibLibre owner
10:03 Joann           Joann Ransom, Horowhenua Library Trust, NZ
10:03 Nate            Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions
10:03 magnusenger     Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
10:03 * sekjal        = Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries
10:03 paul_p          Paul P. BibLibre owner
10:03 brendan         Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions
10:03 Amit            Amit Gupta, Nucsoft Osslabs
10:03 vickiteal       Vicki Teal Lovely, SCLS, Madison WI
10:03 chris           chris = Chris Cormack, Translation Manager, Catalyst
10:03 * Ropuch        = Piotr Wejman, CSNE Library, Poland
10:03 * kf            = Katrin Fischer, BSZ Konstanz, Germany
10:03 jwagner         Jane Wagner, PTFS
10:03 * nengard       Nicole Engard, Doc Manager, ByWater/BibLibre
10:03 * slef          = MJ Ray, member, software.coop
10:02 * gmcharlt      = Galen Charlton, release manager, Equinox
10:02 gmcharlt        let's get started with intros
10:02 gmcharlt        (oops, sorry about that bad paste)
10:02 gmcharlt        Agree times of next meetings: Foundation-forming 19 UTC 28 October 2009; General 19 UTC 4 November 2009
10:02 gmcharlt        6.
10:02 gmcharlt        Vote for Foundation Options (pt 1)
10:02 gmcharlt        2.
10:02 gmcharlt        Comparison chart of associations and foundations
10:02 gmcharlt        1.
10:02 gmcharlt        Follow-up on actions from Foundation-forming Meeting, 15 September 2009
10:02 gmcharlt        5.
10:02 gmcharlt        Mysql Schema Documentation
10:02 gmcharlt        3.
10:02 gmcharlt        Bugzilla default assignees and maintenance
10:02 gmcharlt        2.
10:02 paul_p          hi everybody
10:02 gmcharlt        Koha Tutorials
10:02 gmcharlt        1.
10:02 gmcharlt        Follow-up on actions from General IRC Meeting 2 September 2009
10:02 gmcharlt        4.
10:02 gmcharlt        Review Wiki Relicensing Ballot
10:02 gmcharlt        3.
10:02 gmcharlt        Update on Koha 3.0 Roadmap
10:02 gmcharlt        2.
10:02 gmcharlt        Update on Roadmap to 3.2
10:02 gmcharlt        1.
10:02 Joann           11pm here in NZ
10:02 gmcharlt        the agenda is
10:02 |Lupin|         not participating to the meeting, bye everybody !
10:01 gmcharlt        the wiki page for this is http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes09oct07
10:01 ricardo         (shutting up now)
10:01 ricardo         Good attendance for this time of very-early-morning for "you" (people in the US)... I don't know what time is in New Zealand now, but I wouldn't mind pushing this meeting an hour later or so, so it's NOT that early in the US
10:01 gmcharlt        welcome to today's general Koha IRC meeting
10:01 gmcharlt        to all, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night
10:00 ricardo         gmcharlt: *nod*
10:00 gmcharlt        ok, we're approaching that time
10:00 Ropuch          ;>
09:59 owen            If they were older I could tell their teachers they're staying home to sit in on an important example of 21st-century community interaction
09:59 ricardo         owen: "Hey Owen! Leave the kids alone!" ... with apologies to "Pink Floyd"  ;-)
09:58 gmcharlt        let'em teach themselves today ;)
09:58 brendan         owen++
09:58 owen            gmcharlt: No, and that's why I can't make the meeting. I got up early to get the kids up and ready for school :)
09:58 gmcharlt        owen: you got up early for that? ;)
09:58 ricardo         owen: You're excused... Now, what did you do wrong... this time?  ;-)
09:57 owen            I'm just stopping in to make my apologies
09:54 munin`          gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
09:54 gmcharlt        @later tell pianohacker go ahead and send the syspref pull request if you haven't already
09:54 |Lupin|         hdl_laptop: oops, misread / misunderstood, sorry
09:54 hdl_laptop      Can't see any html ;)
09:53 hdl_laptop      you have a problem with TMPL unclosed or a closing TMPL which closes nothing
09:52 |Lupin|         hdl_laptop: you said the message proves there is either an htl problem, or a tmpl problem... no ?
09:51 hdl_laptop      It is your Log message which proves that
09:51 hdl_laptop      No
09:51 |Lupin|         hdl_laptop: does the fact that the produced document is valid prove that the problem necessarily is at the TMPL level ?
09:50 Joann           boxing !
09:50 ricardo         Morning brendan!
09:49 brendan         morning #koha
09:49 chris           Joann: rugby :)
09:48 |Lupin|         hdl_laptop: isn't there a way to debug templates, or so ? :)
09:48 hdl_laptop      (well, not hard, but really trouble maker)
09:47 |Lupin|         hdl_laptop: ah ok, it's hard...
09:47 |Lupin|         hdl_laptop: yeah I'm precisely developing a template. But isn't there a tool that coudl help ? it's a tough job to re-read the whole template...
09:47 Joann           its pretty impressive :)
09:47 hdl_laptop      (It is hard when you see, can't imagine how hard it is when you are blind)
09:47 chris           thats about the limit of my knowledge
09:47 chris           and faafetai is thanks
09:46 hdl_laptop      and any TMPL_LOOP with /TMPL_LOOP
09:46 chris           Joann: tofa soifua is goodbye in samoan
09:46 hdl_laptop      look at templates. and try to match any TMPL_IF with /TMPL_IF
09:46 ricardo         |Lupin|: That's probably because the TMPL tags are HTML comments, if I remember correctly. The W3C validator will ignore those
09:46 Amit            now 15 min to meeting
09:45 |Lupin|         hdl_laptop: so how can I check where the error comes from ?
09:45 Joann           chris: thank you
09:45 |Lupin|         hdl_laptop: ok. but the produced document is a valid html one, validated by the W3C validator.
09:45 chris           malo e lelei in tongan
09:45 hdl_laptop      |Lupin|: yes to question ;)
09:45 chris           Joann: its hello
09:45 Joann           (samoan inlaws)
09:45 |Lupin|         hdl_laptop: yes to what ? the question about the message, or the bonjour ?
09:45 hdl_laptop      or a closing TMPL which closes nothing
09:45 Joann           not sure if its samoan for hello or goodmorning
09:44 hdl_laptop      you have a problem with TMPL unclosed
09:44 Joann           we say talofa lava in our family
09:44 ricardo         (I only studied French in High School, during 5 years. And that was over 15 years ago. So saying that I'm rusty in French would be an understatement...)
09:44 chris           transliteration even
09:44 hdl_laptop      yes
09:44 hdl_laptop      |Lupin|:
09:44 Amit            hi galen, ricardo
09:44 chris           hdl_laptop: we say ata marie ... morena is a direct translation
09:43 ricardo         |Lupin|: Thanks
09:43 |Lupin|         ricardo: it's never written in two words I'd say
09:43 |Lupin|         ricardo: definitely
09:43 ricardo         hdl_laptop: Bonjour! :)  It's correct to say it as one word also, right?
09:42 Joann           when chris comes back make sure you ask him what Richard Stallman said to him about Koha today :)
09:42 |Lupin|         hi galen
09:42 |Lupin|         is anybody familiar with this message found in Koha logs ?
09:42 |Lupin|         stack underflow:tags stack is empty
09:42 hdl_laptop      hi gmcharlt
09:42 gmcharlt        good morning
09:41 hdl_laptop      Bon matin is direct translation
09:41 hdl_laptop      in fact we say bon jour
09:40 paul_p          slef: true. it's "bon matin" ;-)
09:40 kf              Amit: sorry, I didnt see your question, but Joann is right, its German for good morning
09:37 slef            biab
09:37 slef            damnit, I so rarely write French at the moment
09:37 slef            I think
09:36 slef            bonne matin (in French)
09:36 slef            esperanto
09:36 Amit            Joaan: is french
09:35 Joann           in what language?
09:34 slef            bonan matenon
09:34 Joann           morena (in Maori)
09:34 Amit            aah!
09:34 Joann           good morning
09:33 Amit            kf: guten morgen meaning
09:31 kf              guten morgen |Lupin| :)
09:24 |Lupin|         hi amit
09:22 Joann           yep
09:20 Amit            40 min to meeting?
09:20 Amit            hi lupin
09:18 |Lupin|         hello, everybody
08:58 chris           yep, i had the early one last time :)
08:58 paul_p          oups, right. I made a mistake (with US waking up early for the meeting)
08:58 chris           its only 10pm
08:57 paul_p          chris: don't you ever sleep ?
08:54 chris           yep
08:54 slef            1h10 to meeting?
08:49 jransom         hi all
08:48 Amit            hi slef, jransom
08:43 chris           hi jransom
08:10 chris           yep
08:06 slef            In general, IT has too many followers of Ayn Rand for my taste.
08:04 chris           it was more the "harden up and get over it" attitude
08:03 chris           yep
08:03 slef            chris: to be frank, terrible LMSes are more common problem for me using library websites than CAPTCHAs at the moment.
08:02 slef            chris: horrified by some, reassured by others
07:50 kf              yes, owen++  - this was again something my library asked for :)
07:42 paul_p          owen++ (once again, for it's blog about customizing koha...)
07:19 paul_p          (the trophy is at our office ;-) )
07:19 nahuel          didn't know
07:19 nahuel          Ah ok
07:19 paul_p          so, he knows what is Koha, for sure !
07:19 paul_p          nahuel: rms was in the jury that gave Koha an award at Trophée du Libre, in 2003
07:19 chris           was pretty neat
07:18 chris           yep
07:18 nahuel          hehe, was he sincere ?
07:18 kf              hi chris and jo
07:17 chris           hi nahuel :)
07:17 chris           that's what he said when brenda introduced me to him
07:17 nahuel          hi !
07:16 nahuel          chris, !!!
07:07 chris           "Koha, that's good software" - RMS .. that's something we can all be proud of
07:06 chris           yep, was a good visit
07:02 Jo              Koha meeting in 3 hours
07:01 Jo              good lecture followed by lovely shared meal and discussion around the library staffroom coffee table
07:01 Jo              Just had the coolest visit with Richard Stallman
06:48 munin`          kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Germany is 12.9�C (8:47 AM CEST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 96%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1017.8 hPa (Steady).
06:48 kf              @wunder Konstanz
06:35 munin`          Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 30.0�C (11:30 AM IST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 20.0�C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
06:35 Amit            @wunder New Delhi, india
06:27 Amit            hi hdl_laptop
06:27 hdl_laptop      hi Amit
06:24 Amit            heya nahuel, magusenger
06:23 nahuel          Hi
06:22 kf              hi Amit, Ropuch and nahuel
06:20 Amit            heya ropuch
06:20 Ropuch          Hi kf, Amit
06:19 Amit            heya kf
06:19 kf              good morning
06:07 Ropuch          Morning, #koha
06:01 hdl_laptop      chris howdy ?
06:01 hdl_laptop      hi
05:23 nicomo          hi Amit
05:22 Amit            heya nicomo
04:36 pianohacker     good night, all
04:06 * pianohacker   shakes fist at chris - massive merge, with the latest .po updates
03:25 munin`          Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 20.0�C (5:30 AM IST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 18.0�C.
03:24 Amit            @wunder bangalore, india
03:24 munin`          Amit: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 20.0�C (5:30 AM IST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 98%. Dew Point: 20.0�C. Pressure: 29.63 in 1003 hPa.
03:24 Amit            @wunder Dehradun, india
03:23 munin`          Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 22.0�C (6:00 AM IST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 22.0�C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Rising).
03:23 Amit            @wunder New Delhi
03:23 Amit            hi pianohacker
03:23 pianohacker     Hi Amit
03:20 Amit            good morning #koha
03:20 Amit            hi chris, Jo
01:31 ricardo         Sleep time. Take care everyone!  :)
00:58 pianohackr|work brb, headed home