Time Nick Message 00:24 pianohacker ... and actually hit the funny little X 02:00 chris_n^2 cool, PDF::Reuse maintainer says he'll include several enhancements I made in his next release latter next month 02:00 chris_n^2 hopefully in time for our 3.2 release 02:05 chris awesome 02:09 * chris_n^2 has been dragged kicking and screaming up the PDF standard learning curve :-P 02:10 thd chris: NZ still recognises software patents, does it not? 02:10 chris not explicitly, doesnt explicity reject them either 02:11 chris there is a bill going through parliament about patents now 02:11 chris so it may all change 02:11 thd There is a case before the US Supreme Court which may change things in the US. 02:12 chris_n^2 thd: which? 02:12 thd Bilski 02:13 thd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_Bilski 02:14 thd The hope is that the scope of patents over software in the US may be weakened by some possible ruling. 02:14 chris_n^2 interesting 02:15 chris or strengthened by another ruling? 02:19 thd The long term low but real possibility of a lawsuit over a software patents is the best reason not to have any long term Koha foundation in the US. 02:20 thd chris: does NZ have patent trolls? 02:20 chris_n^2 if the Supreme Court upholds that ruling it appears that it could work havoc in the software industry 02:21 chris yes, microsoft 02:21 chris_n^2 "...ew really expected just how far reaching the decision would be and that it would call into question thousands of software patents granted over the last 10 to 15 years.: 02:21 chris_n^2 s/ew/few/ 02:21 chris they tried patenting story documents as xml here 02:21 chris nzoss and others have challenged it 02:21 chris particularly ironic given that m$ just lost a patent case over xml 02:21 thd We need some havoc in that domain but that is why the court will probably not make a broad ruling. 02:22 chris_n^2 it never ceases to amaze me how judges seem to know everything about everything 02:23 thd chris_n^2: We have special patent courts where 'expert' judges adjudicate patent cases. Of course, such judges have an obvious bias. 02:24 * chris_n^2 wonders if those courts are akin to irs courts :-( 02:26 chris_n^2 heh: "What my firm has been seeing is that claims can be made allowable by inserting “computer implemented†into claims, sometimes even in the preamble. It does not seem that is what the Federal Circuit intended, but it is what is happening at least in some cases." 02:26 thd chris_n^2: The presumption is in favour of the patent holder which is often against the defendant if that is how IRS courts work. 02:38 thd The weaker the software business has been in a country historically, the more likely that the country is to have opposition to software patents which are mostly supported by incumbent industries which have managed to use overly broad patents to.protect themselves from new competitors.. 02:46 chris_n^2 I was just reading an article on the difference between patent and copyright with regard to software 02:47 chris_n^2 I tend to agree with the thought that a copyright is more appropriate for software 02:47 chris definitely 02:47 chris_n^2 I think that the ability to patent a relatively abstract idea is not good 03:11 elpiddaketan hi everyone 03:12 elpiddaketan i have problem in impoerting my data to koha, how will i do that, the records are from Readerware originally, i have the zip file of it 03:12 elpiddaketan i have problem in importing my data to koha, how will i do that, the records are from Readerware originally, i have the zip file of it 03:13 elpiddaketan i got some errors regarding encoding,, something 06:56 mason encoding - something, hmmmm.... 07:05 custard any body vaguely alert (and feeling up to some apache/koha interaction troubleshooting) ? 07:07 mason ive got 5mins custard :) 07:10 custard <mason> Just doen a fairly major round of updating. Last night I had a Koha that worked. This morning the apache log tells me that "File does note exist: /htdocs". 07:10 mason right... 07:11 mason so that probably means your 'DocumentRoot' line is wrong 07:11 mason in your apache config ( in case you read the irc.log ) 07:16 kf good morning :) 07:19 custard sorry about that Mason, bit of a drop-out. I was about to say I can't see a reason for it wanting "/htdocs", and that /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs definitely exits and is accessible. 07:23 mason i guess you've probably got another apache2 config file, thats overriding your koha one 07:23 mason or, as i said before.... 07:24 mason "so that probably means your 'DocumentRoot' line is wrong" 07:24 mason check that line. 07:25 mason DocumentRoot /home/mason/git/kap-k3-3/koha-tmpl 07:25 mason should have your 'internet-tmpl' and 'opac-tmpl' dirs only 07:26 mason and index.html etc... 07:26 Ropuch hm 07:26 Ropuch /etc/apache2/sites-available/koha: DocumentRoot /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs 07:26 Ropuch /etc/apache2/sites-available/koha: DocumentRoot /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs 07:26 Ropuch UGh 07:27 custard which currently says (and is what I'm sure I remember it saying) /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs 07:28 Ropuch Do you have koha in sites-enabled? 07:28 custard Ropouch: yep. 07:28 mason and lots of other stuff? 07:28 custard nup. even disabled default. 07:29 custard index.html? 07:29 mason ok, good... :) 07:29 mason yep 07:29 custard this should be in DocumentRoot or one of the language localisations? 07:29 mason ls -l /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs 07:29 mason wot u get? 07:30 custard opac-tmpl (and that's it) 07:30 mason ok, so yr missing the internet-tmpl staff dirs :/ 07:30 custard isn't that here: /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/ 07:31 custard ? 07:31 custard and they're both not working. 07:31 mason http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=tree;f=koha-tmpl;h=a3b39433a59d8c30e221b28f93dd26576d1604b2;hb=HEAD 07:31 mason . 07:32 custard That's 3.2, yes? 07:32 mason yep, 3,2 - and yr versions is ? 07:33 mason 3 dot something ? 07:33 custard 3.000.02 (just caught up with current stable) 07:33 mason ok, great 07:36 mason so , i cant confirm your dir layout - i dont have a koha of that install-type to test with 07:36 mason and im too busy now to switch to an install 07:37 mason . 07:37 mason comment out one of your vhost enteries , in yr apche conf 07:38 mason or edit your koha conf down to a simple 5 line hello-world test 07:38 mason test with a index.html file in a dir 07:38 mason start simple, find the config goof 07:39 mason very probably in yr koha's apache.conf file ;) 07:39 mason as its the only live one 07:40 mason . 07:40 mason at least - thats what i do with my apache conf bugs , when i get them :) 08:00 chris evening 08:03 custard ok. functionally (but not elegantly) working koha again. And feeling sheepish about it too. 08:04 custard Yes, something wrong with koha-conf. The upgrade over wrote it, and it's one of the few files so far that I've acutally changed. So, naturally, things broke once apache realised. 08:04 custard Thanks mason. 08:13 custard I'll head off now and make some notes for next time I try and run an update :| 08:57 hdl_laptop chris ? 09:01 chris hi hdl_laptop 09:09 |Lupin| hi 09:10 kf hi lupin 09:17 |Lupin| guten morgen kf 09:27 |Lupin| hmm just in ase there are git experts aroun.. 09:27 |Lupin| I just did a git format-patch origin 09:27 |Lupin| and git created 2 files 09:27 |Lupin| one of them is a patch I'd like to submit so that's fine 09:28 |Lupin| but the other is a patch I had already submitted and which was accepted 09:28 |Lupin| so I think it shold already bi in master 09:28 chris did you fetch and rebase before you created your patch? 09:28 |Lupin| I did a git pull before prepearing the patch.. 09:28 |Lupin| is there something else I shold do ? 09:29 |Lupin| chris: I think I fetched (git pull?) but perhaps the second part is missing ? 09:30 chris a pull is a fetch + merge 09:30 chris a little bit different 09:31 |Lupin| chris: ok... so what should I do ? 09:31 chris but if the patch had been accepted, then it would have not been made 09:31 chris what number is it, both patches arent 0001 are they? 09:31 |Lupin| chris: no, the old one is 001 and the new one is 002 09:32 |Lupin| chris: the commit name for the old one is commit 2889603e0eb98980ed74d8ed678069ee823feed5 09:34 chris hmmm 09:35 chris http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=commit;h=2889603e0eb98980ed74d8ed678069ee823feed5 09:35 chris thats the last commit in the master branch 09:46 |Lupin| chris: yeah this one is displayed in git log 09:47 |Lupin| chris: ah, maybe the 0001 was un old file that shold have been deleted... after deleting 000* and re-runningdarcs format-patch origin, everything seems to be fine 09:50 chris s/darcs/git/ :) 09:53 |Lupin| chris: ooooops ! 09:53 chris kf: http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=71249&g2_serialNumber=1 <-- like the book on the right? 10:11 kf chris: dont know that one - does kahurangi learn German? :) 10:15 chris he has books in german, french, maori and english 10:16 chris my father did his degree in russian, with french and german minors, so he reads to him :) (He is a licensed translator and interpreter for Maori too) 10:20 kf cool 11:51 |Lupin| hi Nicole ! 11:51 |Lupin| nice to see you online ! 12:51 jdavidb Hiya, owen and Colin. :) 12:51 owen Hi 12:51 Colin Hi 12:54 chris_n g'morning 12:57 jwagner Morning, all 12:57 jwagner owen, Kyle Hall just sent a patch to allow superlibrarians to delete messages from any branch. 12:58 owen Awesome. 12:59 owen kyle++ 13:00 jwagner Agreed :-) I think you're working on patches for the display suggestions you made, correct? 13:00 owen I submitted some on Friday 13:01 owen I may not have submitted the one for the OPAC yet, merging the message lists, can't remember. 13:08 jwagner OK, I won't do anything along those lines myself then. 13:19 kf is there an easy way to not show marc and expanded marc view in opac? I found sys prefs for staff, but not for opac. 13:23 owen kf, you could add "#MARCview { display:none; }" to your stylesheet (or to your OpacUserCSS pref) 13:24 kf owen: thx! thats really easy and nothing I thought of! 13:24 owen For both: "#MARCview, #MARCviewPop { display: none; }" 13:25 owen I think it's worth filing a bug, though. There ought to be an OPAC version of the preferences you saw 13:26 kf will do :) your css worked like a charm - librarian will be happy 13:28 * owen did the same to hide ISBD in his catalog 13:29 kf librarian likes isbd - but found mistakes in it she wants me to correct. 13:30 owen I've forgotten what little I knew about the ISBD formatting syntax. 13:33 kf I have a lot of other tickets so that I can procrastinate this for a while ;) 14:05 * owen is happy to hear about Kyle doing work for PTFS. The more [paid] programmers the merrier! 14:09 jwagner Yes, he's done several nifty features for us. 14:11 owen Hi valczir_work 14:11 valczir_work hey, owen 14:15 jwagner owen, just used that display: none trick for something completely different. Thanks -- I can cross that mod off my list :-) 14:16 owen Handy stuff. You just have to worry now about your users who surf the web with stylesheets turned off ;) 14:16 jwagner On Their Own Heads Be It! 14:17 owen Yeah, that's what I figure too. 14:19 wizzyrea ooh, harsh 14:19 wizzyrea ;)_ 14:19 wizzyrea j/k 14:21 owen Hi wizzyrea, how's it going? 14:21 * jdavidb has no problem telling users, "Then Don't Do That." 14:24 kf jdavidb: the problem is you have to repeat it too often 14:26 jdavidb That's just one of the perils of being in the IT business, kf. The most-common problem in most IT is the one that exists between the keyboard and the chair. 14:26 jdavidb I try to code around that problem; enforce things with the code, or make so the admin can. But you can't do that for everything. 14:29 kf i think its the most-common problem in every business 14:31 jdavidb Seems likely. Computers don't often *make* errors on their own; track back a couple of steps, and you find a programmer who goofed. Human Error. 14:31 wizzyrea it's going ok :) 14:32 wizzyrea I think I had nightmares about vendor specific koha last night 14:32 * kf spent hours yesterday searching bug in my code to find out I forgot to update German templates 14:33 * kf gives wizzyrea some virtual chocolate 14:33 wizzyrea kf: thanks. :) 14:34 jdavidb That would be a nightmare! 14:34 kf I m an expert in koha nightmares - will be glad when our library is finally live 14:36 jdavidb I had one last week where a training trip to a customer site (which, I *do* have upcoming) turned into a permanent change of duty station. They ponied the money to have me full-time on their stuff. 14:39 jwagner jdavidb, tired of us already????? 14:40 jdavidb Not even, jwagner. You know where that upcoming trip is--can you *imagine* me moving there? 14:40 jwagner Probably not..... 14:41 jdavidb Sure it's probably a nice place and all, since one of my favorite people is *from* there...but...probably not for me. 14:41 jwagner Speaking of bad dreams, many years ago I was managing the migration from an old ILS to Unicorn. That meant I had to learn a _lot_ about MARC and other data in a hurry. By the end of that migration, I was dreaming in MARC record format. That's REALLY traumatic for a non-librarian..... 14:42 kf cant top that 14:42 jwagner Still trying to forget that experience.... 14:46 Colin I think over the years I've learnt more about various MARCs than is compatible with sanity 14:47 jwagner Colin, if you REALLY want to go crazy, try working with COSATI format. Non-MARC, used primarily for U.S. govt research documents, and hideous in all regards. 14:47 * jdavidb would say that MARC has driven him insane, but that presumes he was sane in the first place. 14:48 jwagner jdavidb, I'm not gonna comment. I'm not gonna comment. I'm not gonna comment.... 14:48 jdavidb Chicken. 14:48 jwagner Awk! 14:48 Colin yes formats in the hands of the government, that's really scary 14:49 jwagner It's not in the "hands" of the government, but it was government librarians who developed it. Even Worse! 14:49 wizzyrea omg. have you guys seen the pics of chris's kid dressed up as a punk? 14:49 wizzyrea Hil. ar. i. ous. 14:49 jwagner And at some point I may have to do some development for COSATI with Koha. 14:49 Colin at which point we all hide 14:50 jwagner Including me. 14:56 valczir_work jwagner: I have a picture in my head of a mad scientist hiding behind a thick wall, eyes poking over the top, carefully reaching over the wall to drip some substance into another one 14:57 jdavidb valczir_work: How'd you get that picture of my office? :P 14:59 valczir_work jdavidb: it's all over the 'net 15:03 jwagner I used to work with mad scientists.... At a safe distance, of course :-) 15:04 owen wizzyrea: I loved the one of yours crashed on the bedroom floor 15:43 wizzyrea oh yea that was hilarious 15:56 kf photoshop-- 15:57 kf made a typo in logo, now photoshop tells me .psd-file is broken *wants to cry* 16:38 kf bye #koha :) 17:02 jwagner Does anyone know where to put a customized favicon.ico image? I tried putting it in koha-tmpl (where there was an existing one), but it's not showing up. I've cleared my browser cache and refreshed the page with no luck. Do you have to do anything else to get it to work? 17:04 sekjal jwagner: I think koha-tmpl only occurs in the code as it's bundled, not as it's installed. 17:05 * chris_n actually gets a response to a question about unicode, diacriticals, and pdf from a pdf platform architect at Adobe.... wow! 17:05 jwagner sekjal, not sure what you mean there. 17:06 sekjal I think you need to put the favicon in /opac/htdocs/opac-tmpl/prog/en/includes 17:06 sekjal or run 'make upgrade' 17:06 chris_n adobe++ #for being helpful on a FOSS project 17:07 sekjal the code has two different directory structures: one for how it's distributed, and another when its installed 17:08 sekjal I don't think that the koha-tmpl directory exists anywhere in the installed tree 17:08 jwagner It's there in the git install, which is what I'm working from -- kohaclone/koha-tmpl/etc. 17:09 jwagner (Sorry -- etc. in the sense of et cetera, not a directory named etc) 17:09 sekjal right 17:10 sekjal but i think the 'live' version that the server recognizes is at /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs/...../en/includes 17:10 sekjal at least, that's where it winds up when I installed it 17:11 sekjal its confusing 17:11 sekjal to me, at least 17:12 sekjal I've been trying to get my institutional development plan drafted up, and I think that this whole thing implies we'll have to reinstall/upgrade every time we want to test a newly coded feature 17:13 jwagner Are you a git install or a tarball install? 17:13 sekjal originally tarball, but I upgraded from git 17:21 jwagner Hmmm. Following up on the favicon, for our git install, the image seems to need to go into koha-tmpl, koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/includes, and koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/en/includes. We have multiple instances on this machine, and the Koha install doesn't look at /usr/share at all. 17:22 sekjal jwagner: ok 17:23 jwagner I'm the lowliest novice on git, but for testing new features, shouldn't you be able to create a new branch for them? 17:25 sekjal yes, indeed. but if the code is in one arrangement on git, and another when installed, then to get my server to recognize code, I'd have to install/upgrade each time 17:25 sekjal saying that, it really seems like I'm missing something 17:28 jwagner I'm going to have to let one of the pros answer that. I would think that different branches should work except perhaps where it modifies the database, but I'm pretty fuzzy on specifics. 17:31 sekjal its just the two different directories that are throwing me. should my server be looking at the directory I pulled from Git? 17:31 sekjal what about the Makefile? 17:34 cait_laptop sekjal: you want to make a dev install? 17:34 chris sekjal: the difference is, doing a dev install 17:34 chris_n sekjal: from the root of your git clone run a dev install 17:34 chris *snap* 17:35 * chris_n thinks not even *paid* support responds faster ;-) 17:35 chris_n g'morning chris 17:35 chris morning 17:35 sekjal wow 17:35 sekjal thank you all 17:35 sekjal that clears things up immensely 17:35 jdavidb Howdy, chris! :) 17:36 brendan morning #koha 17:36 cait_laptop morning chris 17:36 chris_n heya brendan 17:36 brendan :) 17:36 paul_p morning to everyone that is at morning time (for me, it's 7:35PM ;-) ) 17:37 brendan well then -- good evening paul_p 17:37 sekjal good <localtime> to everyone 17:37 jdavidb Good evening, paul_p, and cait_laptop. :) 17:37 owen jwagner: Did you get your favicon sorted out? 17:37 cait_laptop good evening jdavidb 17:37 * owen has always found favicons difficult to test because of caching issues 17:38 chris paul_p: thanks for the linkedin recommendation :) 17:45 cait_laptop chris: wrote to German translation mailing list that I will edit po-files locally till saturday. beda says its ok and I think he is the only other who can approve suggestions. 17:46 chris excellent 17:46 jwagner owen, yes favicon is now working (after severe Firefox armtwisting). 17:47 jwagner owen, another question for you, though. Trying to use jquery to rename Add to Your Cart to Add to Your Bookbag. I've done it before & it worked, but this time (latest Koha if that matters) it's replacing it one place but not on the box at upper right of an OPAC record display (Print, Add to Your Cart, More Searches). The label looks the same. 17:48 jwagner Here's what I'm using -- can you see the problem? $(document).ready(function(){ 17:48 jwagner $("a.addtocart").html("Add to Your Bookbag"); 17:48 jwagner }); 17:48 owen Changing Cart to Bookbag is a huge can of worms. Cart of worms? 17:49 jwagner Bookworms? 17:49 owen There are too many places where the word "Cart" is used to be able to do this cleanly. 17:49 pianohacker *rimshot* 17:49 chris the best way to do it 17:49 joetho owen changes nickname to cartman 17:49 chris is to use the translation tools 17:49 owen joetho: Oh great, thanks :| 17:49 * jdavidb groans. Gettin' deep in here. 17:49 chris eg, i have en_NZ 17:50 chris for both opac and intranet 17:50 chris changes catalog to catalogue, check out to issue etc 17:50 jwagner But it puzzles me why this same code works on another site & does replace that particular label. 17:50 * owen agrees with chris that this seems the logical way to do it 17:50 jdavidb chris: That's where you have all your extra U and S characters, right? ;-) 17:50 chris you only have to translate the words you want different 17:50 joetho I wonder about stuff like this (cart vs bookbag) and all the translations. 17:51 jwagner Both of the places I'm trying to change start with <a class=addtocart and one works/other doesn't. 17:52 jwagner For this particular site, since I have a lot of other customizations, I may just do it as a template change. Not the best solution, but if I can't make the jquery work I might go for the easy solution :-) 17:53 owen jwagner: the "add to cart" link on the detail page is very different from the "add to cart" button in the search bar 17:53 owen Is that the other place you're referring to? 17:53 chris jwagner: the translation way is the most portable way 17:54 jwagner No, there's an add to cart link in the results list -- that one changed OK. 17:54 chris http://translate.koha.org/en_USACADEMIC/ something like that 17:54 jwagner I'll have to look into translations at some point, but right now I'm trying for "quick and out of my hair".... 17:54 cait_laptop speaking of translation... 17:54 cait_laptop how to make this show up in po-file? <optgroup label="Dates"> 17:55 chris quick and out of my hair now = omg what is stuck in my hair in 3 months time 17:55 chris :) 17:55 jwagner And I just started letting my hair grow out, too. Maybe I should get it cut again.... 17:55 chris cait_laptop: we will fix that for 3.2.0 17:55 owen jwagner: an add to cart link in the results list? That's a drop-down menu. 17:57 cait_laptop chris: so its more complicated? I hoped I could do it 17:57 jwagner Under each title in the results list, where it says Actions, there's an Add to Your Cart link, and the jquery changed that to Bookbag OK. It just won't do it on the detail page in that box to the right-hand side. 17:58 owen Oh right, sorry 17:58 jwagner Gotta run to a meeting -- back in a bit. 17:59 chris cait_laptop: yeah i think its a little tricky to do 17:59 owen $("a.addtocart").html("Add to Book Bag"); 17:59 owen That works for me in both places 18:02 cait_laptop chris: ok :) I will wait. 18:03 cait_laptop seeing owen using jquery for renaming things - would this work for optgroups in sort by pull down too? 18:04 owen As an interim solution while you're waiting for proper translation? I think so--at least for your javascript-enabled users 18:05 cait_laptop our librarian is a little unhappy about it 18:06 cait_laptop so an interim solution would be nice 18:06 owen give me a moment and I'll give it a try 18:07 paul_p chris: M. Bastareaud just sentenced to do 18 "general interest works for the amatteur rugby", before june 2010 18:07 cait_laptop owen: thx a lot! 18:07 chris paul_p: so he wont be playing with NZ play France in Marseille ? 18:08 owen cait_laptop: An example: 18:08 owen $("optgroup[label='EnglishLabel']").attr("label","Translation"); 18:08 chris s/with/when/ 18:08 paul_p chris: dunno, he can continue doing his job and to the GIW on spare time. 18:09 owen cait_laptop: Do you know where to plug that in? 18:09 chris paul_p: ahhh ok 18:09 cait_laptop I have used some of your tricks to kill some fields in memberentry before 18:09 cait_laptop give me 2 minutes to try :) 18:09 paul_p I think he could be selected, but, seeing the buzz in NZ, I wouldn't be surprised if the french federations decided not to call him... 18:10 chris yes, i think it would be a hard game for him if he played 18:13 cait_laptop owen: works great (as always :) ) 18:14 cait_laptop thx! 18:15 jdavidb Two Colins? Wow. Maybe PTFS Europe has solved the degredation problem in cloning--bet both of them are wizards with the code! 18:17 owen Sure, that's how chris_n got the labels system upgraded 18:18 jdavidb I'm pleased as punch, if there are two. The one we had already is a top-shelf colleague. Writes good code, great to work with, and (apparently) never sleeps. 18:20 pianohacker hmm, I need to talk to him; I need one me for school, and one to work on the poor, neglected sysprefs editor 18:21 chris_n $alter_ego = $self->clone($number_needed) 18:22 chris_n on second thought: $alter_ego = $self->clone(number => $number_needed, improvements => @a_whole_array_of_them) 18:23 owen I'll take a clone if there's a way to sync our brains after we've been apart. 18:23 owen Maybe through iTunes? 18:23 * jdavidb shudders 18:24 jdavidb Need to make sure the protocol is not too lossy. 18:25 jdavidb I'd just let my clones each become subject-matter experts, and we could do trainings in relays. :P 18:25 chris_n lol 18:25 Colin The cloning failed it was just my evil twin 18:25 jdavidb Ah. Rats. 18:27 * jdavidb is the evil twin. 18:27 jwagner But we Knew That! 18:27 pianohacker jdavidb: I think you're missing the necessary goatee 18:27 * cait_laptop found another untranslatable string 18:27 cait_laptop $(".hold").text_("Place Hold"); ? 18:27 jwagner owen, out of my meeting. I tried the $("a.addtocart").html("Add to Book Bag"); but it's still refusing to change the wording on that one spot. Sigh. 18:28 cait_laptop ok _ does not work 18:28 jdavidb I am missing it *now*, pianohacker; just recently shaved my face, after wearing a goatee for 20 years. The whole-beard thing you saw in April was less than a year old. 18:28 owen cait_laptop: Where is that? 18:28 pianohacker ahh 18:28 cait_laptop opac-basket 18:28 cait_laptop in javascript part 18:28 pianohacker cait_laptop: embedded js or external file? 18:29 cait_laptop embedded 18:29 owen Yeah, it's a bug 18:29 cait_laptop yeah, I know ;) 18:29 owen There are a few untranslatable strings in there I see 18:29 cait_laptop Tag is also not translatable 18:30 owen Line 81 should more correctly read $(".hold").text(_("Place Hold")); 18:30 owen Line 87 should be $("#tagsel_tag").text(_("Tag")); 18:30 owen These look familiar though, like there was a patch recently for it. It may already be in line for 3.2 18:31 cait_laptop I did a patch for this text on list interface 18:32 owen Maybe that's what I'm thinking of 18:32 cait_laptop you helped me with it, so maybe :) 18:32 cait_laptop I will add a bug report later and correct it 18:32 cait_laptop have to catch my bus now - quiz night at local irish pub with colleagues 18:33 owen Hmmm... Why is there no delete button on addbiblio.pl? Maybe because the page doesn't know whether there are items attached? 18:33 cait_laptop thx for your help and bye :) 18:34 pianohacker Probably. also, it doesn't seem like a very typical workflow 18:34 owen Hey man you got a problem with my workflow? 18:34 * owen blusters 18:36 wizzyrea ooh, I love it when Owen gets all uppity. 18:36 pianohacker hehe 18:37 * jdavidb hands owen and pianohacker boxing gloves. Just one, for pianohacker. 18:37 pianohacker Yeah I got a problem with your workflow bub 18:38 * jdavidb opens up the betting windows. 18:41 pianohacker The last time I got into a fight, it was far more ridiculous than threatening 18:41 pianohacker So keep your money :) 18:41 * jdavidb put a horseshoe into *one* of the three boxing gloves. Y'all figure out which. 18:43 joetho you? pianohacker, in a fight? I would pay money to have witnessed that. I hope you didn't actually get punched, though... 18:43 pianohacker Anyway. owen: it seems to me like you'd normally want to delete after looking at the normal or marc views, but I could be wrong 18:44 owen What I really want is the ability to delete a biblio with items attached from the normal view. 18:44 pianohacker joetho: hah, not at all, just some other geek that got angry at me and flailed at me for a bit 18:45 pianohacker owen: yes, that would be nice. The current restriction seems a bit much 18:45 joetho Geek Wars! a new reality show idea. 18:45 pianohacker hahaha 18:52 chris hi nicomo_laptop 18:52 nicomo_laptop hi chris 18:53 nicomo_laptop up already? 18:53 nicomo_laptop What time is it? 18:53 nicomo_laptop 9pm here 18:53 chris nearly 8am 18:53 nicomo_laptop ok 18:53 chris daylight savings started on sunday 18:53 nicomo_laptop ah, yes 18:53 * nicomo_laptop never quite understood those 18:54 nicomo_laptop I have to say I had a wretched day 18:54 nicomo_laptop let's hope tomorrow's better 18:54 chris hehe, yeah just makes it harder to get the kid to go to bed "but the sun is shining" 18:54 * chris hopes so too 18:54 chris what went wrong? 18:54 nicomo_laptop anything that could did 18:54 nicomo_laptop basically :-) 18:54 * owen hates the DST bedtime issue as well 18:55 nicomo_laptop my daughter likes to sleep so much she doesn't care one way or the other 18:55 nicomo_laptop boy do I love her 18:56 nicomo_laptop sunday morning I had to wake her up at 9:30am because we were going to meet friends 18:56 chris heh that rules :) 18:57 chris of course once she is a teenager, it wont be fun anymore "GO TO SCHOOL!!!!" 18:57 chris :) 18:57 nicomo_laptop yeah 18:57 nicomo_laptop but at 5, taht rules 18:57 chris yup :) 18:57 nicomo_laptop I have time before she's a teenager 18:59 * chris goes to catch his bus 19:02 wizzyrea nerd fight, fighting nerds, they don't use fists, they use words! 19:09 * nicomo_laptop goes to bed, have a good day all 19:10 owen I thought nerds fought with flashlights while making light saber noises. 19:11 * jdavidb pulls out his blue plastic light saber, and duels like the President. 19:12 pianohacker whoom 19:13 * jdavidb was about to say, "When did we last see a President doing something silly like that," then remembers Dubya holding the flag up *backwards* during the Beijing Olympics, and decides to say nothing... 19:14 owen To this nerd, there's a good silly and a not-so-good silly 19:15 * jdavidb nods. 19:15 pianohacker man should have a sense of humor; only thing that'll keep him from going insane 19:15 jdavidb There is silly, and there is clueless. 19:20 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: around ? 19:20 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: yep 19:22 hdl_laptop I have pushed some more things on CodeRunBase you can see that on koha-biblibre.git 19:22 gmcharlt ok 19:23 hdl_laptop I wondered if you had any schedule for integration of this branch ? 19:23 gmcharlt at this point, before the Koha meeting next week 19:23 hdl_laptop I have pushed some more things on CodeRunBase you can see that on koha-biblibre.git (branch master 19:23 hdl_laptop ) 19:25 hdl_laptop This branch is based on current master. So it should not be too much of a burden to take it. 19:26 hdl_laptop "atomic updates" should get into updatedatabase.pl in order to have all the database updates for this branch 19:32 chris back 19:33 hdl_laptop hi chris 19:39 chris heya hdl_laptop, working late? 19:40 hdl_laptop yes. 19:43 richard hi 19:44 pianohacker hello 19:44 richard hiya pianohacker 19:44 chris morning richard 19:44 richard hey chris 21:38 owen Anyone have any numbers for highest-circ library using Koha? 21:39 chris not me 21:39 wizzyrea not it 21:39 chris im guessing NEU is still near the top 21:40 owen NPL's peak was almost 650K in '04 21:41 chris (im thinking NEU cos academic libraries do stupidly high amounts of circ) 21:41 owen I had someone ask me about performance, so I was curious. 21:41 chris but there might be a bigger academic now 21:45 hdl_laptop owen there is a serious perf issue because items are inside the marcxml 21:46 hdl_laptop Either we part item and biblios Or we throw marcxml away in order to use YAML. 21:46 chris yes circ is slower now than it was, we can fix that (and we will fix that) 21:46 hdl_laptop I prefer the first solution. 21:46 chris we should be just using the items table 21:46 chris thats what it is for 21:47 hdl_laptop yes But search can search for branch and onloan and all that stuff. 21:47 hdl_laptop (and those are items values.) 21:47 chris we are talking about circulation 21:47 chris not searching 21:48 chris there should be a process to update the xml, outside of the circ process, like updating zebra 21:48 chris waiting to parse the xml everytime you issue something is inefficient 21:48 hdl_laptop If you allow ppl to search for only onshelves items, then both are related. 21:49 chris yes, but they shouldnt be 21:49 hdl_laptop i agree. 21:49 hdl_laptop But in my opinion, we should definetely have a 'holding' database 21:50 hdl_laptop And not rely only on biblio 21:51 hdl_laptop then both would be really separated, and we would not have the problem of xml parsing and then regenerating. 21:51 chris *nod* 21:52 hdl_laptop Moreover, generating xml record for items would be much faster than a biblio which has 100 items 21:52 hdl_laptop And marcxml for biblios would be lighter 21:52 hdl_laptop It is also related to searching in authorities before searching biblios 21:53 chris yep 22:09 Jo spot quizz: who are the big Koha consortias of public libraries throughout the world? 22:10 chris NEKLS 22:10 chris Masscat ?? 22:10 chris SEKLS? 22:10 chris nengard probably knows more than me 22:11 nengard those sound about right 22:11 chris CKLS .. how big are they? 22:11 chris and incolsa? 22:11 nengard not sure 22:11 Jo ASCC 22:11 chris ASCC arent live afaik 22:12 Jo working on the outline of the prsebntation chris and i are doing at conference soon... 22:12 Jo (may not get a formalpaper written ... but should be able to wing it aye Chris!) 22:13 chris ive never written a full presentation yet 22:13 Jo goodo 22:13 nengard one of my old slide shows had a list of consortia in it 22:13 nengard hang on 22:13 Jo Nicole - go baby! 22:13 Jo have you got a list of the cool features 3.0 has over more usual LMS 22:14 Jo Chris: thinking is the ideal stage to promote Koha for the nz wide lynsync 22:15 chris yep 22:16 nengard Crawford County Federated Library System 22:16 nengard 9 member libraries; 246,616 items; 518,382 annual circulation 22:16 nengard Independently Cooperating Ashtabula Network (ICAN) 22:16 nengard 6 member libraries; 166,597 bibs 22:16 nengard Central Kansas Library System 22:16 nengard 31 member libraries 22:16 nengard Indiana Cooperative Library Services Authority (INCOLSA) 22:16 nengard 30 member libraries 22:16 nengard MassCat 22:16 nengard 100+ member libraries 22:16 nengard Northeast Kansas Library System 22:16 nengard 116 member libraries 22:17 chris NEKLS is the size of NZ :) 22:17 nengard that data is out of date 22:17 Jo fantastic 22:17 nengard from an old presentation i did 22:17 Jo too out of date to use? 22:17 Jo in a presentation in NZ? 22:17 Jo or is it 'c2008" 22:17 chris well, they wont have gotten any smaller :) 22:18 Jo thanks Nicole 22:18 Jo thoise are all in the states 22:18 Jo are there others in Europe? India? Africa? 22:18 nengard it was dated 3/3/2009 22:18 Jo south america? 22:19 Jo ok cool - thats current enough to use. 22:19 nengard no clue about those 22:19 Jo Chris: we should've just got Nicole to do this for us you know .. 22:20 chris heh 22:20 Jo (she does these presentations in her sleep :) 22:21 nengard all my presentations are online 22:21 nengard on slideshare and on my website 22:21 nengard feel free to steal 22:22 nengard http://www.web2learning.net/publications-presentations 22:22 Jo oh cool - thanks Nicole. thats really generous. 22:22 nengard http://www.slideshare.net/nengard 22:22 nengard no prob at all 22:27 nengard list list found on lib-web-cats: 22:27 nengard Automation System Consortia Colorado. ( United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Automation System Consortia Colorado [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] + 22:27 nengard Big Country Library System. ( Abilene, TX United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Big Country Library System [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] + 22:27 nengard Central Kansas Library System. ( Great Bend, KS United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Central Kansas Library System [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] + 22:27 nengard Crawford County Federated Library System. ( Meadville, PA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Crawford County Federated Library System [web site ] [online catalog] [Koha -- LibLime] + 22:27 nengard INCOLSA, Inc.. ( Indianapolis, IN United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Shared Catalog of Indiana Online [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] + 22:27 nengard Independently Cooperating Ashtabula Network. ( Jefferson, OH United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Independently Cooperating Ashtabula Network [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] 22:27 nengard MassCat. ( South Deerfield, MA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: MassCat [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] 22:27 nengard Metrowest Massachusetts Regional Library System. ( Waltham, MA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: MassCat [Koha -- LibLime] 22:27 nengard Northeast Kansas Library System. ( Lawrence, KS United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Northeast Kansas Library System [web site ] [online catalog] [Koha -- LibLime] + 22:28 nengard Northeast Massachusetts Regional Library System. ( Danvers, MA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: MassCat [Koha -- LibLime] 22:28 nengard Saugeen Library Consortium. ( Hanover, ON Canada) Display all the libraries participating in: Saugeen Library Consortium [web site ] [Koha -- Independent] + 22:28 nengard South Central Library System. ( Madison, WI United States) Display all the libraries participating in: South Central Library System [web site ] [online catalog] [Koha -- LibLime] + 22:28 nengard Southeast Kansas Library System (SEKLS). ( Iola, KS United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Southeast Kansas Regional Library System [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] 22:28 nengard Southwest School Corporation . ( Sullivan, IN United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Shared Catalog of Indiana Online [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] 22:28 nengard Walla Walla Area Library Network. ( Walla Walla, WA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Walla Walla Area Library Network [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] + 22:28 nengard West Texas Library System. ( Lubbock, TX United States) Display all the libraries participating in: West Texas Library System [web site ] [Koha -- LibLime] + 22:28 nengard still mostly US .... 22:28 pianohacker Ahghhh pasteflood 22:28 nengard search here: http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-search-advanced.pl 22:28 nengard sorry 22:29 pianohacker Interesting info, though :) didn't know there were that many 22:29 nengard i'm sure there's more - not everyone puts their info on lib-web-cats 22:30 hdl_laptop SAN Ouest -Provence is sbout 300000 items 22:30 hdl_laptop in France 22:35 * chris shows nengard http://koha.pastebin.com :-) 22:35 Jo thanks 22:35 Jo (can you teach me how to copy from irc too) 22:36 chris its all in the log jo 22:36 Jo cool :) 22:37 Jo there are gajillions in France 22:37 chris http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2009-09-28#i_311981 22:38 Jo ok its all toomuch - koha is just too prevalent around the world to talk about .. its like a virus :) 22:39 chris yeah we should just say. "Who is using koha? ... who isnt using koha" 22:39 Jo lol - ok 22:39 Jo WE've got USA, France, South America and India pretty much sewn up 22:39 Jo Africa coming onboard prettu quick and Europe next 22:40 pianohacker Time to log off for day, cya koha 22:40 Jo cya 22:40 chris cya pianohacker 22:40 Jo Chris:i need that visualization tool / map og koha installs 22:41 chris yeah, ill do something 22:58 chris_n^2 chris: can you configure the channel so that when someone pastes to koha.pastebin.com a notice is posted to the channel? 22:58 * chris_n^2 saw something like this on #perl 22:58 chris probably some bot does it 22:58 chris but yeah, i probably could 22:59 chris make either munin or the log bot do it 22:59 chris pastebot 22:59 chris http://sourceforge.net/projects/pastebot/ 23:01 chris and its perl, sweet 23:01 chris_n^2 yeah, it would be a nice addition 23:01 chris ill give it a go 23:01 chris_n^2 http://p3m.org/pfn/perl 23:01 chris_n^2 for example 23:03 chris yep thats it 23:08 chris_n^2 I actually got a positive response from an insider at Adobe concerning some of the unicode difficulties we've been having with the labels pdf code 23:08 * chris_n^2 greats pastebot 23:09 chris i have to set up the web side of it 23:10 chris_n^2 greets even 23:13 chris which ill need to do at home when i can poke my firewall 23:13 chris but yep, shouldnt be hard to do 23:19 chris_n^2 does anyone have a few unicode bibs with lots of diacriticals they could send my way? 23:27 pianohacker chris_n++ # for working on labels unicode problems, tough and touchy problem