Time Nick Message 00:17 chris_n2 is everyone free to add pros and cons to the comparison chart of foundations? http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=kohaheldbyfoundation 00:17 chris i reckon so 00:17 chris its a wiki :) 00:29 * chris_n2 wanders off to read his 3 year old a book 00:33 chris awesome 00:33 chris superpotamus is a good one :) 00:34 richard heh 00:34 chris http://www.wheelers.co.nz/books/9781869438739-superpotamus/ 00:38 brendan later #koha -- be back in a bit :) 00:38 chris cya brendan 00:57 chris_n2 ifla does not really look like it does what we would be looking for in a foundation 00:57 chris even temporary? 00:57 chris (i agree mind you, just playing devils advocate) 00:57 chris_n2 the closest thing I can find is a "Special Interest Group" dealing w/libraries and web 2.0: http://www.ifla.org/en/libraries-and-web2dotzero 00:58 chris *nod* 00:58 chris_n2 it really does not have any sort of mechanism that I can find whereby 'we' would 'join' as a community/committee/etc 00:59 chris i dont think it is even something the would be interested in doing 00:59 chris the=they 00:59 * chris_n2 agrees 01:00 chris_n2 their purpose appears very broad and much more related to the overall library picture 01:00 chris yeah 01:03 chris_n2 they would be more like the universe and we the planet.... whereas SPI, HLT are more like the sun and we the planet.... in the koha foundation scenario, however, the universe revolves around the planet - koha... ;-) 01:03 chris :) 01:03 chris_n2 maybe the geocentric theory had its merits 01:05 * chris_n2 finds himself locked out by slef :-) 01:06 chris wow, he's up late, maybe he fell asleep at the keyboard 01:06 chris @seen slef 01:06 munin` chris: slef was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 36 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <slef> gmcharlt: #include <joke/merge-branch-fork-child> 01:06 chris_n2 actually he adds some stuff as we chat 01:08 * chris_n2 looks around for his superpotamus suit 01:08 chris :) 01:09 chris_n2 chris: btw, my 3 year old has moved out of nappies and into training pants.... yay! 01:10 chris woo hoo 01:10 chris we are nearly there 01:11 chris_n2 this is the fourth (and last) time, but somehow it seems to have been just as much a challenge as the first :-P 01:11 * chris_n2 cheers slef on 01:13 slef ok, unlocked 01:13 slef here I was adding random thoughts when I wake up in the middle of the night 01:13 chris ahh :) 01:13 slef thinking I'd be unnoticed... I should know better than to doubt #koha's powers of observation 01:14 gmcharlt slef: Koha is awake 24 hours a day 01:14 slef cool. Can it answer my phones, please? ;-) 01:15 gmcharlt just as soon as somebody contributes an Asterisk plugin 01:15 chris funny you should say that 01:15 chris that was something reed wanted to do 01:16 gmcharlt well, what's he waiting for!? slef's phones need answering ;) 01:17 slef hrm, some clients aren't happy when they get a simple voicemail... wonder what they'd think if an LMS answered :-D 01:18 gmcharlt depends on the quality of the data in the catalog, I suppose 01:20 chris_n2 asterisk++ 01:20 * chris_n2 has plans to trash the pbx and put his asterisk test server into production 01:21 chris another public vendor repo hits the wiki http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?do=show&id=en:development:git_repos 01:22 chris_n2 cool... more pressure 01:26 chris_n2 it's sort of funny: the patches for correcting cutter number splitting will probably hit the main repo before they are applied to our production koha server locally. 01:26 chris hehe 01:26 chris those patches will make a lot of catalogers happy 01:27 chris_n2 and 'snap'... there they are 01:28 gmcharlt chris_n2++ 01:30 chris chris_n2++ 01:33 chris_n2 a bunch of code could benefit from improvements like those in chris 's patch 01:34 chris what'd i do? 01:35 chris_n2 your dbi patch 01:35 chris_n2 Update some DBI interactions 01:35 chris ohh, that wasnt me i dont think 01:36 * chris looks at git log 01:36 chris_n2 opps... colin campbell 01:36 chris_n2 sorry :-O 01:36 chris yep, some nice patches coming in from ptfs europe 01:37 chris_n2 any thoughts on a line for crontab git fetch && git rebase for multiple branches? 01:37 chris_n2 ie. current branch is 'some-work' but I want crontab to rebase 'master' and 'some-work' 01:38 chris ahhh 01:38 chris id prolly write a bash script 01:38 chris and call that from crontab 01:40 chris_n2 I think 'git rebase origin some-work' && 'git rebase origin master' would do, but leave me in 'master' 01:40 chris_n2 script is probably best, as you suggest 01:42 chris_n2 what might really be cool would be to have a hook to call a perl tidy on commit 01:43 chris if we start that practice, it should be right after a release, cos whitespace changes make diffs really hard to read 01:43 slef chris: enjoy the end of my spi-private email. 01:43 chris but any new files, perltidy away :) 01:43 chris slef: you just sent one? 01:44 chris ah yes 01:44 chris hehe 01:45 slef not what I expected :( 01:54 slef network gone unstable, going away again 02:16 chris_n2 think shell scripting: why does "echo $(`/usr/lib/git-core/git-branch`)" result in "line 2: 0001-Bug-2500-Correcting-incorrect-splitting-of-cutter-nu.patch: command not found" (the failed attempt to execute the first file in the dir as a command???)? 02:18 chris_n2 echo `/usr/lib/git-core/git-branch` results in a listing of the current directory.... weirdness indeed 02:35 chris_n2 here's a cool git prompt: http://www.bramschoenmakers.nl/en/node/624 02:36 chris_n2 displays branch and status in your shell prompt 02:39 snail chris_n2: only use fance colours if you always connect from a linux machine. if you're connecting from random windows boxes using random clients enough of them get ansii colour wrong for it to be a pain 02:40 chris chris_n2: i use something similair to that, atz wrote a blog post on it 02:40 * chris_n2 always uses putty from win32 boxes :-) 02:40 chris http://blogs.liblime.com/developers/2009/04/19/tips-tricks-from-koha-developers/ 02:58 chris hmm that wasnt the one i was thinking of, but its a good point nonetheless 02:58 chris s/point/post/ 03:04 chris_n2 well, I got bash script and git playing nice together so I think it's time for bed 03:05 chris_n2 g'night 03:10 Amit hi chris, brendan 03:10 Amit good morning #koha 03:11 chris hi amit 03:16 snail morning Amit 03:17 richard hi amit and snail 03:18 Amit hi richard, snail 03:58 brendan hello amit 04:07 chris brendan: http://www.librarian.net/stax/3022/whats-going-on-with-koha-and-liblime/ 04:22 brendan Goodnight #koha 04:22 thd-foraging Unfortunately, Roy Tennant has defended the closed nature of the OCLC record sharing policy as if it had been actually encouraging openness. 04:22 chris cant win them all 04:23 thd good night brendan 04:23 chris one fight at a time :) 04:23 thd chris: I have been having some trouble with my new website 04:23 chris i am glad pointed out that the redhat analogy is false (well 2 people did) 04:23 thd chris: perhaps you have some insight into my problem 04:24 chris fire away 04:24 thd after several problems, I know seem to have some proxying stuck in Apache. 04:25 chris right 04:25 thd that is after I remove the proxying and attempt to redirect a subdomain it still points to the same proxied service. 04:25 chris hmm 04:25 thd I restart Apache and have no effect 04:26 chris tried a full stop-start 04:26 chris ? 04:26 thd I cannot remember but I will try that now 04:26 chris i also find 04:26 chris curl -I url 04:26 chris handy 04:27 chris for trying to spot what is going on 04:28 chris http://code.google.com/p/gource/ <--andrew works with me .. and we tried this on koha git .. its way way cool ;) 04:32 thd chris: reading the headers tells me nothing other than what I already know that the Apache proxy is still redirecting to a commented out redirect. 04:33 chris well it does tell you its not your browser doing it 04:33 thd Oh I see. 04:33 chris which often it will keep doing, even if you dont want it too 04:33 chris curl doesnt remember, browsers do 04:33 thd So yes I have confirmed that the problem is not in the browser. 04:33 chris cool 04:34 thd So then where can the problem be. 04:34 chris hmm, the access logs confirm it going through the virtual host you expect it to be? 04:35 thd I think that it could not be otherwise but I had fallen asleep the night before last when I was about to check the logs properly. 04:36 chris thats the only other thing i can think og 04:36 chris of even 05:53 Michael32424234 Hi all, I'm just trying to make an adjustment on an OPAC. Is there a way to hide the 'search' form/buttons from users who have not logged in yet? Also, can it be done without editing the templates? (using jscript is fine) Thanks! 05:53 pianohacker Michael32424234: That might be a better question for the mailing list 05:53 pianohacker Owen Leonard, the jQuery expert, is asleep right now 05:54 pianohacker I'd normally be able to help, but it is far to late for me to be thinking clearly enough 05:54 pianohacker (apologies) 05:54 Michael No problems, that's fair enough. Thanks, I might try the mainling list then. 05:57 Ropuch Morning everybody 05:59 Ropuch Michael: i think you have to edit tmpl a little bit 06:00 pianohacker It might be possible with jQuery, though it'd be a little roundabout 06:06 pianohacker Good night, everybody 06:09 Michael Thanks, I've just put the question to the mailing list. 06:34 chris evening all 06:34 SelfishMan howdy 06:35 Ropuch hello chris 06:36 chris get some sleep Ropuch ? 06:39 Amit hi kf, selfishman, ropuch 06:39 chris hi kf 06:40 kf hi Amit and chris 06:41 chris Michael: you want to use http://plugins.jquery.com/project/cookie 06:42 Ropuch chris: yes :) 06:42 Michael Thanks, I'll take a look. Cheers! 06:43 chris then you can do var cookie = $.cookie("CGISESSID"); 06:43 chris if (!cookie){ 06:43 chris hide the search box 06:43 chris } 06:45 chris does that make sense? 06:45 * chris will reply to your email 06:49 Michael Sorry, I was away from irc. I haven't used plugins but I'll see if I can get it working. 06:50 chris essentially you jsut grab that file 06:50 chris call it cookie.js 06:50 chris then add to one of the sysprefs to tell it to be loaded 06:56 Michael OK, I'll try it out, I'm still learning so I'll take it easy. Thanks for your help. 06:56 chris no problem sing out if you get stuck 06:57 chris bbiab 07:15 paul_p http://www.libraryjournal.com/blog/1090000309/post/1050048905.html 07:18 chris http://www.librarian.net/stax/3022/whats-going-on-with-koha-and-liblime/ 07:19 chris i commented on this one, pointing out how biblibre had helped, it must be waiting moderation :) 07:22 paul_p hi chris (I hadn't seen josh mail on koha ML before answering to your question. 07:23 paul_p my answer it much different then. yes, we must answer (and on the mailing list) 07:23 paul_p (I thought you wanted a PR) 07:24 paul_p I will answer josh mail, on this, and on many other topics 07:25 chris ahh :) 07:25 chris i think echoing the call for a public repo is good too, it seems everyone wants that 07:27 chris i am happy that others have said that 07:28 chris and happy to see lots of repo's being added to the wiki 07:33 Ropuch Hm, twinview is acting little strange 07:34 Ropuch But translating with gpoedit and opac open at the same time is worth it ;> 07:34 chris :) 07:59 |Lupin| hi 08:05 kf hi |Lupin| 08:12 Michael Night all, for anyone interested in the issue I had earlier (hiding the OPAC search form until users have logged in), I will be posting a solution to the mailing list soon. 08:12 Michael Thanks for everyone's help too. 08:15 paul_p chris:mail sent 08:23 chris just read it 08:23 chris and its all true 08:27 snail night all 08:27 * paul_p suggest to call LL fork "LEK" 08:28 paul_p (don't use the term "Koha" ;-) ) 08:31 * |Lupin| wishes he could say good night too and go to bed, unfortuntely the day just starts here... 08:31 Amit hi lupin, paul_p 08:35 |Lupin| hi Amit 08:38 chris http://git.biblibre.com/gitstat/tags.html is a good stat too 08:41 kf LEK? 08:42 kf ah. liblime enterprise koha? 08:42 chris yep 08:44 |Lupin| well spotted kf ! 08:49 paul_p I think we should advertise on "Community Library Koha" ;-) 08:54 kf CLK? 08:54 kf ;) 08:54 chris hehe 08:56 * paul_p think we could release a PR announcing CLK, on exactly the same schema as PR for LEK. That would be funny. 08:58 paul_p something like "BibLibre, Catalyst, ByWaters, Tamil, PTFS, PTFS-Europe announces Community Library Koha". CLK is build on over ten years of completed customer-sponsored development. This free software, available on cloud or local hosting will also give regulare release ,... 08:58 chris :) 08:58 paul_p we could "copy/paste" the complete PR, just changing some key features. 08:58 paul_p s/features/facts/ 08:58 Colin Limes are not the only fruit 08:58 chris i think the release notes for 3.2 will serve as the best PR 09:44 magnusenger http://lib1point5.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/where-goes-koha/ 09:44 chris yep, just retweet miromurr :) 09:45 chris and told him he should come on irc more .. and that i agree with most, except i dont see the foundation as a big problem, rather as a big opportunity :) 09:46 magnusenger you beat me to the RT, chris ;-) 10:00 |Lupin| hmm it seems our KOha only returns those biblios for which there is at least one item available, in opac searches. s this behaviour configurable, pls ? 10:00 |Lupin| couldn't find any syspref for the moment 10:01 chris 2 secs ill check 10:02 chris mine certainly returns results 10:02 |Lupin| chris: for the biblios without an item ? 10:02 chris even for biblios have no items at all 10:02 chris yes 10:02 kf perhaps searchmylibraryfirst or something like that? 10:03 chris http://opac.koha.workbuffer.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=fish 10:03 chris none of those have items 10:04 chris cant find any obvious syspref 10:04 |Lupin| o... 10:04 |Lupin| actually I think our librarian has problems with her browser who didn't perhaps re-submit the query... 10:04 |Lupin| thanks all ! 10:04 |Lupin| (lunch time here, bbl) 10:17 slef chris: is http://gitorious.org/koha yours and can I have access, please? Or should we just ditch it? 10:19 chris its one of mine 10:19 chris i have one on github too 10:19 chris but yep you can have access i havent pushed in a while tho 10:19 * chris likes having backups everywhere 10:23 chris whats ur username 10:23 chris slef? 10:23 slef let me go register ;-) 10:31 chris :) 10:33 gmcharlt good morning 10:34 chris morning gmcharlt 10:38 chris slef: its all up to date now, and will add you as a user (and anyone else) when i know user names 10:40 slef username is slef 10:40 slef thanks 10:40 chris done 10:43 chris slef: originmaster tracks git.koha.org/master 10:43 chris the rest are topic branches 10:45 slef thanks... currently trying to make the case for using gitorious to get small fixes out of the co-op sooner 10:47 chris http://ianhaydock.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/uncertainty-in-the-koha-community/ 10:48 chris what is with people and the red hat forked linux crud? 10:48 chris slef: doing so would be good, it would be yet one more public repo 10:49 chris LEK does not equal Red Hat 10:49 slef LEK? 10:49 gmcharlt LibLime Enterprise K*ha 10:50 slef OIC BFE TLAs 10:51 chris scroll back slef, you will see paul talking bout LEK 10:51 chris magnusenger: yes that is indeed the right south park episode :) 10:52 magnusenger chris: cool! ;-) 10:52 slef chris: scrollback is on another server until it is emailed to me. This IRC setup is freaky. 10:53 chris heh 10:53 chris 20:28 * paul_p suggest to call LL fork "LEK" 10:53 chris 20:28 < paul_p> (don't use the term "Koha" ;-) ) 11:05 chris it never ceases to amaze that people think if they post the same question again and again on the mailing list, someone will magically answer it 11:05 chris oh yes, i wait til the 38th time i see a question before i answer it 11:07 slef if they post the same question again and again, or to every list they can find, the duplicate filter usually kicks in and hides it :) 11:07 chris_n2 g'morning 11:07 chris hiya chris_n2 11:08 chris_n2 "LEK".... lol 11:09 slef pronounced letch? 11:09 slef or leak? 11:09 chris_n2 or leech 11:10 Ropuch Hm, how can i add 3.1/3.2 opac in certain language to projects on pootle? 11:10 chris_n2 re: multiple posts.... after the second or third I suffer from buffer overrun 11:11 * chris_n2 heads out; bbiab 11:12 chris Ropuch: you ask on koha-translate 11:12 chris and i will do it 11:13 chris bear in mind those will still change a bit before the string freeze, but if you are ok with that 11:13 chris i can set it up 11:18 Ropuch chris: i was just curious, want to finish 3.00.X first 11:18 chris *nod* 11:19 chris i use the file from 3.0.x as the base for creating one for 3.2.x 11:19 chris so finishing it is a good plan 11:20 Ropuch Opac is quite quick&easy to translate, intranet would be an issue ;> 11:21 |Lupin| back 11:22 gmcharlt paul_p: ping 11:37 chris hii jwagner 11:38 jwagner hi chris 11:55 jdavidb Good morning #koha. :) 11:55 kf good morning jdavidb 12:11 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: is your latest Auth_with_ldap.pm patch in any of the BL trees? 12:11 hdl_laptop Not on public but I can send it to you if you need 12:13 gmcharlt email it to the patches list, please 12:13 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: btw, how are you getting on the with the cherry-picking for 3.0.4 12:13 gmcharlt ? 12:14 chris i think we are pretty much done 12:14 chris at least from what i can tell 12:14 chris and with that, im gonna hit the hay 12:15 chris have a good day #koha 12:15 chris cya in 8 hours or so 12:15 kf good night chris 12:15 gmcharlt g'night 12:18 hdl_laptop good night 12:18 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: we might have finished that. 12:18 hdl_laptop Apart from that problem on Auth_with_ldap 12:19 gmcharlt ok, I'll test and it push it once it's on the patches list 12:19 gmcharlt and then time to try a fresh install of the 3.0.4 candidate, then an upgrade 12:20 gmcharlt I got a ping from Amit asking about a DB error on installation from the maintenance branch, but he dropped out before he gave me any details 12:40 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: sent 12:41 Nate Good Morning Everyone! 12:41 jdavidb Mornin', Nate. :) 12:42 schuster I go home and all kinds of things happen! 12:42 jdavidb Indeed. 12:54 chris_n morning owen 12:54 owen Hi 12:56 owen Some interesting but so far insubstantial communication from LibLime yesterday. 12:57 jdavidb That's a kind way to put it, owne. 12:57 jdavidb owen, even. :P 12:58 jdavidb Since I've been asked about it several times, I'll say it here: PTFS will be opening a public git repo for our works-in-progress in the next few days. 12:58 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: I'm not sure about simply removing the principal_name LDAP config setting - I'm pretty sure it's in use 12:59 owen That's great to hear jdavidb. Will you be publicizing it on the mailing list? 12:59 owen You could even submit a news item to koha.org :) 13:00 gmcharlt jdavidb++ 13:00 jdavidb Yes, I'll be sending a message out once I get it standing up. We've got a *lot* of WIPs, so it may take a while to get them all up there, but I have several in mind to toss out at once. 13:01 owen Wow, Roy Tennant's post is no-holds-barred. 13:02 jdavidb Indeed. 13:17 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: would it be really harmful to rely on dn compared with a manually input string ? 13:18 hdl_laptop Is there a way to try and test those ? 13:19 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: making sure it works with MS Active Directory would be the acid test - that's been driving a lot of the changes 13:19 * gmcharlt doesn't have an AD setup, though 13:19 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: I just reported a bug in ModItemFromMarc 13:19 hdl_laptop and sent the patch 13:24 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: looks OK on first glance, but is there going to be an issue stripping away a UNIMARC 100 that presumably contains the UTF8 flag? 13:26 * gmcharlt is also thinking that we could fairly easily get rid of ModItemFromMarc entirely 13:27 gmcharlt add just have a routine that parses a MARC item tag to a hashref and use only ModItem to do the actual updating 13:48 schuster Owen - what's the link to Roy Tennants post? 13:49 owen http://www.libraryjournal.com/blog/1090000309/post/1050048905.html 13:49 schuster thanks 13:49 schuster Why find it yourself with librarians around ;) 13:49 owen :D 13:49 owen That's why my wife never uses the phone book! 13:49 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: in fact, 100$a is breaking the udpate, so I had to choose 13:50 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: a quick test to see if a diacritic in an item field gets handled correctly is in order, then 13:53 chris_n owen: in that case, my wife must be a librarian because I never use a phone book ;-) 13:54 jdavidb No librarians in our house, at all--and no librarians, either...just a geek who's learned much from them. :) 13:54 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: tested : No problems with diacritics 13:54 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: cool 13:55 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: do you have a MSActive Directory Test ? 13:55 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: any chance I could get you to convert that example file from the bug to a test case? 13:55 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: no, I don't have AD 13:56 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: I am already convinced how Usefull it could be. 13:56 hdl_laptop But t/lib is still a bit noisy for me. 13:56 * jdavidb gets grumpy with his typo-ridden keyboard. 13:56 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: oh, I'm sure - I'm just being lazy and hoping you'll convert it to a test case so that I don't have to ;) 13:57 hdl_laptop But I can do t/db_dependant 13:57 gmcharlt that's fine 14:10 jwagner XSLT question -- how do you escape a character? I'm putting together a string in XSLT (continuing the SFX link thing) that includes an ampersand, and XSLT does not like the ampersand at all. I've tried \& but that doesn't work. What's the escape code? 14:11 jdavidb & ? 14:11 jwagner With the semicolon? 14:11 jdavidb yes. 14:12 jwagner Thanks, that seems to have done it. 14:12 jdavidb yabetcha. :) 14:33 chris_n hdl_laptop: I run an AD domain here; I might be able to do some AD auth tests, but it will be later this week or weekend 14:34 * chris_n wishes the first menu item in all context menus was 'Paste' 15:02 |Lupin| bye all 15:11 jwagner gmcharlt, around? 15:11 gmcharlt jwagner: yep 15:12 jwagner Got a fix coming for my XSLT/syspref patch that you just pushed -- one of our people spotted a duplicated line which means the record count is getting doubled. 15:13 gmcharlt ok 15:32 wizzyrea dangit owen, I was SO writing that message! 15:32 wizzyrea almost verbatim! 15:32 owen :) 15:32 wizzyrea you're way to fast, and I'm too concerned with not skeeving people off 15:33 wizzyrea :) 15:33 owen I'd love to have your version posted too. Everyone on that list is sick of my ranting by now 15:33 wizzyrea fair enough, I'll send it :) 15:33 owen Besides, that post REALLY needed to be rebutted. 15:34 owen "LibLime is the only company doing librarian-driven development?" What have they been telling people? 15:35 wizzyrea I think they've been told lots of things 15:35 wizzyrea like, I"m not sure they are really clear on who the RM is for 3.2 15:35 wizzyrea and what 3.2 even is, for that matter 15:35 owen Exactly. 15:35 wizzyrea ok, I sent it 15:35 wizzyrea *ducks and covers* 15:36 wizzyrea who exactly do they think is commissioning all of the other features? Firemen? 15:36 wizzyrea wtf. 15:37 owen I don't know, it seems like gmcharlt has been approving an awful lot of firemen-oriented features lately. 15:37 owen Like that shiny pole leading from cataloging to circulation? 15:37 kf which post are you talking about? 15:38 owen Sorry kf, we're discussing a message on a mailing list for Liblime customers 15:38 kf ah ok, no problem 15:38 gmcharlt owen: alas! you've discovered my secret plot to turn Koha into a fire station management system! 15:38 owen A discussion has been started on the subject of the Koha Foundation, and the first post showed some misconceptions 15:39 wizzyrea based on the immediate goals of the community re: what the foundation should do 15:39 * owen should be buried in Drupal themes, but koha drama keeps distracting him 15:39 wizzyrea ok, poll 15:40 wizzyrea phonetically, droo pahl, or droo pal, or droo pul 15:40 chris_n drool pool maybe 15:40 wizzyrea <3 15:41 wizzyrea or droolpool 15:41 owen 'The name Drupal, pronounced "droo-puhl," derives from the English pronunciation of the Dutch word "druppel," which means "drop."' 15:41 owen http://drupal.org/node/769 15:41 wizzyrea ok, that's what I thought 15:41 wizzyrea i get so annoyed when people say "droo pahl 15:41 * owen too 15:42 owen Sounds like RuPaul 15:42 wizzyrea yes, their emPHAsis is on the wrong syllAble 15:42 wizzyrea among other things 15:42 kf droo pahl bringt me to something, how do you pronounce koha and horowhenua? 15:44 owen "Koh'-hah" is how I've always heard it 15:44 jdavidb The O is long, like in "owen," but pulled back in the throat a little. the a is like the a in "father." 15:45 kf owen: thx - giving my first koha presentation on tuesday and start to doubt everything 15:45 kf ok, that mathes how it would be pronounced in German 15:45 owen And "Hore - ah - when -ah" I believe, but chris would be able to say more accurately 15:46 kf I considered writing horowhenua on my slide and just speaking of hlt... 15:46 owen Very pragmatic :) 15:46 kf afraid people will ask :) 15:46 wizzyrea hehe 15:48 jdavidb I heard him pronounce it close to "hore-ah-when-wah", but he was talking fast; I could be wrong. 15:49 owen Yeah, jdavidb that might be better 15:50 owen Alright, long afternoon-killing meeting approaching. Time to eat a nap-inducing lunch. 15:51 kf ok, time to go home (to perhaps finally start working on my slides :( ) - thx and bye :) 15:53 * jdavidb reads the scrollback, and laughs at wizzyrea's way of speech. "skeeving people off?" :P 15:54 wizzyrea well I didn't think it was quite appropriate to "piss them off" 15:55 wizzyrea but I just said it so 15:55 wizzyrea *sigh* 15:55 rhcl use "piece" as in , "piece them off" 15:56 jdavidb "torque" 16:03 wizzyrea rhcl: good idea 16:06 jdavidb @dict skeeve 16:06 munin` jdavidb: No definition for "skeeve" could be found. 16:43 wizzyrea come on, you don't find skeeve to be absolutely conveying what I meant, regardless of it's actual existence as a word? 16:44 jdavidb Oh, absolutely, wizzyrea...I knew exactly what you meant. Just never heard it before. :P 16:44 wizzyrea my husband always laughs at me because I was an english major... but I always make up words 16:44 wizzyrea but everyone always knows what I mean so... 16:44 wizzyrea I'm like the mashup english major 16:45 wizzyrea I think the internet has corrupted me though. 16:45 wizzyrea somebody: best link to koha history? 16:46 wizzyrea most descriptive, thorough web posting regarding said history? 16:46 sekjal http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=blob;f=docs/history.txt 16:47 wizzyrea yes, indeed. 16:47 * jdavidb snaps his fingers. sekjal beat me to the most complete one. 16:47 wizzyrea not the most prosaic history, but complete for sure 16:49 sekjal at least up to Sept 6 16:49 sekjal events have, of course, transpired since then. 16:50 wizzyrea well, sure :P 16:51 sekjal I should get the details of the KUDOS meeting at ALA 09, and pass them along. previous KUDOS meetings were listed 17:09 wizzyrea have any of you ever coded a feature for koha that wasn't asked for by librarians? 17:10 jdavidb Not a full feature, no. 17:14 jdavidb I've fixed a number of dodgy things that bugged me that librarians wouldn't have ever known about (like the annoying message out of rebuild_zebra that I patched last week). But no big features. 17:21 wizzyrea i'm not talking about bugfixes, but features 17:22 wizzyrea like adding a "checkin all" button or local holds 17:22 wizzyrea ok, I just wanted to ask 17:22 wizzyrea because there is an implication elsewhere that the community codes features based on personal desire, and not for the benefit or at the direction of librarians 17:23 wizzyrea which I find to be laughable 17:25 ColinC Agreed. It would be pointless to do it in a library system 18:04 Ropuch Good evening 18:05 chris *sigh* 18:06 chris http://www.libraryjournal.com/blog/1090000309/post/1050048905.html 18:07 chris ben ide is back 18:08 chris jdavidb: the wh sound in maori close to an f 18:09 chris i feel that someone rebut his small group of programmers, but i cant cos im a programmer so my opinion doesnt count 18:10 * jdavidb suggests we take up a collection, and mail Ben Ide a big box of clues. 18:16 * chris_n wonders just who "Ben Ide" is 18:17 chris http://www.educause.edu/Community/MemDir/Profiles/BenIde/122774 18:17 chris his library is a WALDO member 18:17 chris_n chris: Is this the same Ben that posted on your blog the other day? 18:17 chris yes 18:18 chris i have had correspondence with him since, and thought he might be getting it, but nope, it appears not 18:18 * chris reads back 18:18 chris ahh, and misinformation being spread on the LL users list too 18:18 chris_n interesting comms on code4lib earlier 18:18 chris oh? missed that 18:20 chris hmm yeah, i dont think i have added a feature not asked for by a librarian either 18:22 chris oh except that time .. when katipo decided to write an ils just for fun, then forced HLT to use it 18:22 chris forgot that bit 18:22 chris_n lol :-O 18:23 gmcharlt @quote add <chris> oh except that time .. when katipo decided to write an ils just for fun, then forced HLT to use i 18:23 munin` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded. Quote #33 added. 18:23 gmcharlt @quote remove 33 18:23 munin` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded. 18:23 gmcharlt @quote add <chris> oh except that time .. when katipo decided to write an ils just for fun, then forced HLT to use it 18:23 munin` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded. Quote #34 added. 18:29 wizzyrea oh wow... someone's on the kool aid selilng path again 18:29 wizzyrea selling* 18:32 chris oh? 18:32 wizzyrea yea, it's like 18:32 wizzyrea the things this guy says are practically proxies for what a certain CEO would say 18:33 wizzyrea "THEY"RE LYING!! THEY DON"T CARE ABOUT YOU!!" 18:33 chris yes 18:33 * chris_n is always leery about drinking koolaid 18:34 * jdavidb has a very advanced model of Baloney Detector, so is mostly immune to Kool-Aid. 18:34 chris hehe 18:35 wizzyrea i hear that red40 causes hyperactivity. maybe that's the problem 18:35 * gmcharlt dislikes mixing baloney and kool-aid 18:35 wizzyrea not even in the blender, gmcharlt? 18:35 wizzyrea perhaps especially not there 18:35 jdavidb eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwww liz! 18:35 gmcharlt I just had lunch :( 18:35 wizzyrea oh... sorry 18:35 * wizzyrea apologizes profusely 18:35 gmcharlt ;) 18:36 chris the only thing that annoys me, is the reducing anyone who disagrees with liblime to "a small group of developers" the rest of the FUD doesnt worry me so much 18:36 wizzyrea yea, you mean... the 60 or so of us that were here yesterady? 18:36 jdavidb There are more people in that "small group" than there are that *work* for LibLime. 18:36 wizzyrea which is no small group... would barely fit in our large meeting room 18:37 chris wb Nate 18:37 Nate hey chris! 18:37 Nate dunno what happened there 18:37 wizzyrea it's kind of telling to me that "community" is being demonized :( 18:38 chris this your second week at bywater nate? 18:38 chris (fulltime that is) 18:38 Nate yes sir 18:38 chris wizzyrea: yeah, thats pretty nasty 18:38 chris Nate: hows it going? keeping ya busy? 18:38 Nate loving every minute of it 18:38 Nate submerged in the bywater 18:39 chris_n heh 18:40 chris excellent :) 18:40 Nate crazy about all of this liblime stuff 18:41 Nate kinda like when the hobbits returned home to the shire only to find it walled off and scoured by the evils of industrialization 18:41 gmcharlt hi Nate 18:41 chris hehe 18:41 Nate hi gmcharlt 18:41 chris speaking of the hobbit, the movie is all go again 18:42 Nate best news ive heard all day 18:42 Nate they better not mess it up 18:42 wizzyrea no doubt, but that's great 18:42 Nate I'm a bit of a fan if you haven't noticed 18:43 wizzyrea tell me they didn't demolish hobbiton.... 18:43 wizzyrea though I guess it's been years 18:43 chris http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/2847070/Settlement-clears-way-for-The-Hobbit 18:43 wizzyrea best use of an army ever 18:43 wizzyrea building hobbiton 18:43 Nate definately 18:43 chris the army were also orcs and uruk hai 18:43 chris in two towers, all those ones marching 18:43 chris who better to get to march in formation :) 18:44 Nate peter jackson looks skinny 18:44 chris wizzyrea: most of it's still there 18:44 wizzyrea i know! it's nuts! wth happened to him? 18:45 chris yeah he has lost a lot of weight 18:46 Nate he went from a dwarf to a wizard 18:46 chris nate: have i shown you my pictures from the return of the king premiere? 18:46 Nate no but I would love to see them 18:47 Nate you were there!? Luuckeee 18:47 chris http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3564 18:49 * jdavidb sees the "Stamps and Coins" shop in the background, and drools a li'l. Must go there during KohaCon '10. 18:50 Nate those are awsome! 18:51 Nate I shoudve been cast for the roll of pippin 18:51 chris http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1001 18:51 chris we now have galadriel and nazguls in our christmas parades hehe 18:51 chris http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1004 18:52 chris Nate: my brother in law died as an uruk hai in all 3 movies :) 18:52 chris i auditioned for a rider of rohan, couldnt ride well enough tho 18:52 wizzyrea didn't guillermo del toro do one of the harry potter movies? 18:52 wizzyrea the time travel one? 18:52 Nate man i would have loved to be in any part of those movies 18:53 Nate ive read all the books just about every year since i was nine 18:53 wizzyrea awww, one of the previews on the side was (I think) kahu pointing at something, very sweet picture 18:54 Nate im a little puney to be an uruk hai but i could have passed for a hobbit! 18:54 chris when all the orcs and uruk hai of the white hand are chanting before they go off to attack the hornburg 18:54 chris that was recorded at a cricket match in wellington 18:54 chris at the lunch break 18:54 wizzyrea hahahahaha 18:54 wizzyrea i think I saw that in the special features 18:54 Nate whaaat thats great 18:54 chris peter jackson came on the field, and got us all to stamp 18:54 chris and chant 18:54 chris so my voice is in there :) 18:55 magnusenger well here we are, confirming the myth of the Koha-techie-nerds... What next? SW and Hitchiker's? ;-) 18:56 Nate im moving to New Zealand so im there in 30 years when they do a re-make 18:56 wizzyrea mean, exclusive, koha techie nerds, i think you mean 18:56 sekjal is there a link that will provide me with the date of the last patch submitted by LibLime? 18:57 cait discworld? 18:57 wizzyrea ehh, that point is proven, it's he said/he said at this point 18:57 magnusenger wizzyrea: yeah that goes without saying, doesn't it? 18:57 wizzyrea and it frankly doesn't matter who has done more 18:57 wizzyrea because that's the past, and this is now 18:57 chris ohh discworld, i love them too cait 18:58 chris sekjal: it would have been one from either atz or gmcharlt before they resigned 18:58 chris have to go back to march for the last one from joshua 18:58 chris but like wizzyrea says, i think that point has been made 18:59 sekjal ok. I'm drafting something, and want to have as many references to back up what I say as possible. 18:59 chris and that people are willfully not understanding at this point 18:59 wizzyrea there was discussion this morning that only liblime does development for librarians, with librarians in mind 18:59 wizzyrea which is ludicrous 19:00 sekjal completely 19:00 wizzyrea (and I'm technically a customer and I think their behavior is appalling) 19:00 chris yeah 19:00 sekjal sorry, gtg, circ meeting. be back in a bit 19:00 wizzyrea me too, staff meeting (nap time) 19:01 magnusenger so all the sponsored development - that's just libraries paying good money to let developers scratch their own itches? 19:01 Ropuch Wish i cuold take a nap at staff meetings... ;>/ 19:01 wizzyrea that's the claim 19:01 collum wizzyrea: Huh? I was in a meeting all morning and missed that one. 19:03 chris collum: on the liblime users list .. are you on that? 19:04 jdavidb Certainly none of the development we're doing is like that. The libraries involved very definitely are driving it, with their dollars. 19:04 chris it seems most of the outrageously false stuff is being said there, where it cant be combated by the people being defamed/slandered 19:04 collum chris: nope 19:05 * chris_n works to grind out another non-librarian useful feature to generate patron cards 19:05 collum So an ILS can exist for 10 years without librarian/library input? 19:06 wizzyrea well, I would like to say that I truly appreciate all of the hard work you all do to generate features that librarians don't want 19:06 chris @quote 33 19:06 munin` chris: I've exhausted my database of quotes 19:06 gmcharlt @quote 34 19:06 munin` gmcharlt: I suck 19:06 gmcharlt @quote get 34 19:06 munin` gmcharlt: Quote #34: "<chris> oh except that time .. when katipo decided to write an ils just for fun, then forced HLT to use it" (added by gmcharlt at 06:23 PM, September 16, 2009) 19:06 chris_n wizzyrea: hehe 19:06 wizzyrea because if that's the case you've all been doing marvelously at guesswork 19:06 collum :) 19:06 chris_n coding blindfolded... there's a thought 19:07 cait Im with wizzyrea, koha is great software and I hope I can get more involved with it and the community 19:07 * jdavidb struggles with his nifty-new feature that librarians won't want--new books list in the OPAC with some syspref configurability.. 19:07 brendan yeah I don't any librarians that are interested in that 19:08 * gmcharlt awaits first company to tout how their development is actually driven by _patrons_ 19:08 chris hehe 19:08 wizzyrea hey, that would be epic 19:08 hdl_laptop hehe 19:08 hdl_laptop I think that nicomo would like that :) 19:08 brendan gmcharlt dully noted :) 19:08 chris http://gmlc.wordpress.com/2009/09/16/agenda-for-the-925-vokal-meeting/ looks interesting 19:09 chris brendan: will you be participating? 19:09 brendan yes I will 19:09 chris excellent 19:09 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: so, what are these strange non-library entities in France that BibLibre has been busily writing code for? 19:09 brendan hopefully talking about some development 19:09 chris make sure you ignore the librarians 19:09 brendan hehe 19:09 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: ? 19:09 brendan I'm excited -- maybe jessmyn will be there 19:10 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: a joke - see scrollback about 300 lines back for some interesting claims 19:10 * brendan always finds sometime to read her blog 19:12 wizzyrea hdl: omg, that firefox addon for offline circ = CAN. NOT. WAIT. 19:12 wizzyrea so...very...exciting 19:12 wizzyrea of course, it's precluded by actually getting patron db's occasionally. 19:12 wizzyrea sigh 19:12 * wizzyrea mutters something about her support company not being very responsive to requests for the patron sqlite data. 19:13 jdavidb they *still* don't have that right, wizzyrea ? 19:13 wizzyrea no. I think it died when you left 19:13 hdl_laptop wizzyrea: no, it doenot fetch patron table at the moment. 19:13 chris http://twitter.com/benide/status/4029869085 19:13 hdl_laptop But maybe could. 19:13 jdavidb tacky, tacky...but I'm not surprised that they dropped it in the floor. That is not the only one of my good ideas that fell thru. 19:13 chris ben gets it right ... but not for the reasons he thinks 19:14 jdavidb May have to join Twitter, just t point the Finger of Doom at him. 19:15 wizzyrea wowie. 19:18 chris_n hehe 19:20 chris for a guy who has yet to participate in the koha community at all, apart from to slander it, he certainly has a lot of opinions 19:23 chris http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?do=show&id=en%3Adevelopment%3Agit_repos 19:24 chris this makes me happy 19:24 jdavidb Some persons are just pathologically unable to appreciate what others do. The stuff they're involved in is all-important, and nothing else matters. It may be that he's that sorta fellow. 19:24 chris i note biblibre's public repo is there now too 19:24 chris with all their topic branches 19:24 chris awesome 19:24 chris biblibre++ 19:25 jdavidb chris, did you catch my announce after you left this morning? We'll be standing one up in the next few days, too. The chokepoint is me, now--only so many hours in a day. 19:26 chris w00t 19:26 chris public_repos++ 19:26 chris and i like this blog post 19:26 chris http://www.parser.ca/z678/2009/09/16/koha-manoeuvres/ 19:27 chris specifically 19:27 chris "Second, many of these developers are straight from the library community and the developer orientation – to the extent that you can imply it’s a dominating community feature – is and was needed due to the limited leadership and vision coming out of the library land to make sensible technology investment decisions. Without them, you can’t build something from nothing, and that libraries are somehow divorced from this process is ludicrous. You 19:29 slef bah, libraryjournal.com has an eyetest. Meanies. 19:33 chris slef: you can buy 2000 captcha cracks for about $2 now 19:33 chris its a fairly ineffective anti spam method 19:34 brendan see you in a bit #koha 19:43 magnusenger god night #koha 19:52 chris ok, time to catch my bus 19:52 chris cyas in a bit 19:52 chris keep up the ignoring 19:53 cait bye chris 19:54 chris oh before i go http://blog.esilibrary.com/2009/09/16/the-equinox-promise/ 19:54 chris smart people 19:54 * chris goes now 19:58 chris_n equinox++ 20:03 brendan heya #koha 20:05 jwagner Hi brendan 20:06 brendan afternoon jwagner 20:09 jwagner Haven't had a chance to look at that diacritic stuff. In my "someday" pile for now.... 20:09 hdl_laptop equinox++ 20:10 hdl_laptop jwagner: is there a bug you are referring to ? 20:10 jwagner No, just an email conversation I was having with brendan. 20:10 jwagner Sorry for the confusion. 20:10 brendan hdl_laptop -- I was having a little trouble with searching in OPAC 20:11 brendan for items with the diacritic é 20:12 brendan I thought that if I typed the author name danielou -- I should get back results with " daniélou" 20:12 hdl_laptop Is this composed characters ? 20:12 jwagner And I've been having the same problems -- was hoping to pick his brain if he'd come up with anything. 20:12 hdl_laptop Or NFC ? 20:12 hdl_laptop Or NFD ? 20:12 brendan not sure what you mean composed characters -- 20:13 gmcharlt brendan: composed means that a character with a diacritic is represented as a single Unicode code point 20:13 gmcharlt e.g., the character E WITH ACUTE 20:13 jwagner In my tests I've been cutting & pasting from text which had the diacritic. Haven't tried composing one (you mean typing it on the keyboard with the Alt-whatever code?) 20:13 gmcharlt decomposed means that it represented as two separate Unicode code points 20:13 gmcharlt E, followed by COMBINING CHARACTER ACUTE 20:14 * gmcharlt isn't shouting, just taking it from the Unicode doc, btw ;) 20:14 hdl_laptop Maybe you should try and test word-phrase-utf8.chr from fr then. 20:14 brendan hdl_laptop that is where I ended up 20:14 hdl_laptop Another hint would be to use icu-chains 20:14 brendan was looking at the file - then got distracted 20:16 brendan thanks will add the icu-chains (when I get back to that project) 20:16 brendan I mean add looking at them :) 20:16 jwagner I remember seeing somewhere a config file where you could enter stuff like search the e with & without the acute -- is that the same file? 20:16 gmcharlt yes 20:17 jwagner OK, it's on my "look-at" pile when I dig out from under all the current stuff. 20:17 brendan yup -- so the defaults all look like that is already set 20:18 jwagner My site was looking at Korean characters. Don't know if it will paste properly -- title starting with Usu?m kwa kamdong 20:18 cait we have hebre 20:18 cait w 20:18 cait it only worked after we changed indexing to icu 20:18 jwagner That's Usum with the sideways paren over the um part (sorry, don't know the names of all the diacritics) 20:18 cait i think you cant use this mentioned config file with icu 20:19 jwagner Do you mean you're using something other than Zebra for your indexing? 20:19 gmcharlt cait: right 20:19 cait zebra with icu 20:19 cait using a file from gmcharlt I think (when I remember correctly this time) 20:20 gmcharlt jwagner: ICU = C library that handles character normalization 20:20 gmcharlt Zebra is able to use it 20:20 jwagner Where do you set that up? 20:20 hdl_laptop there is one on domwip on biblibre repositori 20:20 cait I didnt - let my colleague do that, but I think there is a mail describing it 20:21 cait no it was hdl's file... http://markmail.org/search/?q=icu+marc#query:icu%20marc+page:1+mid:hmtfccsjhs4kdfzx+state:results 20:22 Nate i gotta stop doing that 20:22 cait will I ever get this right? sorry hdl.. (again) 20:25 cait better go to bed now :) - good night #koha 20:25 * wizzyrea prays that this DB import works... stupid help desk software... 20:27 wizzyrea ...sorry, had to bmw (b****, moan, whine) 20:32 * wizzyrea wonders if there is an OTRS irc channel... 20:32 * wizzyrea wanders off to find it 20:33 wizzyrea <mumble> <groan> 20:36 jwagner wizzyrea sounds like she needs a chocolate fix... 20:38 wizzyrea this is definitely possible 20:38 jwagner Would you settle for a virtual chocolate bar? 20:41 * chris_n commits some initial work on the new patron card creator 20:42 chris_n it should be available in my public repo after 0600 UTC 17/09/09 20:42 * chris_n hopes that's not holding it back too long... ;-) crontab only works so fast 20:43 wizzyrea jwagner: it's the thought that counts :) at least you made me smile 20:43 richard hi 20:43 wizzyrea chris_n: I dunno... we want our code and we want it NOW 20:43 wizzyrea ;) jk 20:43 chris_n hehe 20:44 chris_n but it's only half-baked and has not been 'vetted' yet.... 20:45 chris_n actually the module test script generates a nice pdf with a patron card full of default values 20:45 chris_n @later tell slef patron card work for 3.2 is under way 20:45 munin` chris_n: The operation succeeded. 20:46 chris_n bbl 20:50 chris back 20:54 chris good god 20:54 chris is ben being paid by liblime? 20:54 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: about C4/Auth_with_ldap.pl ? 20:54 chris he's commenting everywhere he can 20:55 jwagner chris, where now? 20:55 chris jo ransoms blog 20:55 chris go after the original koha library .. he's all class 20:55 chris http://library-matters.blogspot.com/2009/09/liblime-forks-koha.html 20:55 hdl_laptop I could put principal_name and $userldapentry->dn as default. 20:56 * chris comments too 20:57 chris i deleted my first comment 20:57 chris which was 20:57 jwagner chris, one of my favorite t-shirts is from the thinkgeek site. It's the SQL query shirt -- select * from users where clue > 0 (0 rows returned) 20:57 chris "Ben maybe you are too busy attacking people on the liblime mailing list to read the rest of the thread from that email you posted, its far from categorically untrue" 20:59 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: that woudl work, I think 20:59 hdl_laptop So Resend ? 20:59 gmcharlt please 21:01 jwagner Good night all.... 21:09 hdl_laptop sent 21:12 chris hdl_laptop: do you think we should merge the maintenance branch back into 3.0x 21:12 hdl_laptop yes. 21:12 hdl_laptop Will do it right away 21:12 chris fabulous 21:14 hdl_laptop there may be still some caveats though. 21:15 chris oh yeah, we need to do some good testing 21:15 chris its software freedom day on sunday 21:15 hdl_laptop But would be less dangerous than leaving this branch as broken as it is. 21:15 richard oh yep. chris are you heading along? 21:15 chris complete with a hackfest 21:15 chris im gonna see if i can get some testing/fixing of 3.0.x branch there 21:15 chris yep, you too richard? 21:16 richard yep 21:17 hdl_laptop Circulation would be the more tricky to test 21:17 hdl_laptop and the more important too 21:17 chris yep, i have been testing that 21:17 schuster My head hurts need to go home. 21:17 chris spotya later schuster 21:18 chris oops i shoulda ignored him, he is a librarian 21:18 * chris forgets the rules already 21:18 schuster be nice - I do have a minor in computer science, but wouldn't wave that in front of anyone...;) 21:22 brendan Well there is a response from a LL customer -- quoting Josh 21:23 brendan on the mailing list 21:27 chris well all uncertainty is gone then 21:27 chris it is a fork 21:27 chris no 2 ways about it 21:30 hdl_laptop If one really wants to remove customer sensitive data from files, they could. 21:30 hdl_laptop chris pushed 21:31 wizzyrea sigh 21:31 wizzyrea at least it's over 21:32 chris yep, i hope someone responds to say that, ill give it a few hours then i might thank daniel for confirming it 21:39 chris hdl_laptop: awesome !!! 21:43 chris_n2 jerks-- 21:43 chris_n2 opps.... 21:44 chris heh 21:45 chris_n2 interesting, Asterisk turns 10 this year 21:45 chris asterisk rules 21:47 * brendan <----- want's clarification on "eventually" - from what I know - "eventually" = "never" 21:48 brendan oh well -- time to settle in and do some work -- turn off the koha soap opera for the moment 21:56 chris_n2 imho the strongest rebuke to LL now would be for their customers to either go "in-house" or with another vendor 21:57 * chris_n2 can't stand doing business with businesses with little to no character, no matter how much I may appreciate their past contributions 21:57 chris i hear ya chris_n2 21:57 wizzyrea very long contracts for some of us :( 21:58 chris_n2 another alternative would be to demand source code per contractual agreement 21:59 chris_n2 if it was not produced.... breach of contract 21:59 moodaepo chris_n2 depends on what the contract says 22:01 * jdavidb thinks that one other nice thing about this community is that it is rarely dull. ;-) 22:01 chris heh 22:02 jdavidb So there it is; as soon as that slacker jdavidb gets off his tail and gets PTFS's repo up, LL will be the only one of the big busy vendors without one. 22:03 moodaepo PTFS? 22:03 chris and they have confirmed they will never have one 22:03 jdavidb <-- works for PTFS : http://www.ptfs.com 22:03 moodaepo aaah yes I am fairly new but I did know that : ) 22:05 jdavidb :) 22:05 chris i wonder if they ahve a different repo for each customer 22:05 jdavidb They didn't, when I was there. 22:06 chris they better, or they are mixing up client sensitive data with other client sensitive datea 22:06 chris of course, this only holds if i believe that is the reason why, and of course i dont 22:06 jdavidb right. 22:06 chris the lies are becoming more thin and transparent every day 22:07 rhcl I'm trying to stay very much on the sideline, but from watching this it reaffirms that there are some advantages to keeping your server in-house rather than hosted. 22:07 chris rhcl++ 22:07 jdavidb It's kinda like watching a video of a car crash; you *know* it is going to end horribly, but you just can't tear your eyes away... 22:07 jdavidb rhcl++ 22:08 brendan ha -- jdavidb -- so true 22:09 brendan I think -- how quickly can you run a company into the ground ??? 22:09 jdavidb In this deeply-inbred industry? Doesn't take long. Word gets around in a hurry. 22:09 brendan ok admit -- maybe a little to harsh -- like the car crash a little bit more 22:09 rhcl Waldo seems to have put some serious coin in their pocket..that could last a while. 22:10 chris thats contingent on LL having anyone left to do the work rhcl 22:10 jdavidb True enough, rhcl, 'specially since they have no staff to pay.... Lose a couple more, and PTFS's Koha team will be bigger than LL's. 22:10 chris biblibre's already is 22:11 chris not an order of magnitude tho :-) 22:11 rhcl But I assume they've been hiring? 22:11 chris rhcl: we'd be the last to know, since the wont be on the mailing lists, irc or submitting patches 22:11 jdavidb They have an ad up on their website, but I don't think much of their chances to hire anyone. 22:12 chris i cant see that many open source programmers queueing up to work on a vendor fork 22:12 jdavidb They'd have to grab someone young and dumb, and that won't help much. 22:12 jdavidb (someone who buys the Kool-Aid from management, too) 22:12 chris now that joshua has officially confirmed the fork, i feel free to speak my mind 22:12 moodaepo or there are always proprietary ones who can be brought into the company 22:13 chris just to explain why i am being so frank 22:13 rhcl chris: and you've been holding back!!! :_ 22:13 brendan chris++ 22:13 jdavidb chris++ 22:13 * brendan listening 22:13 brendan :) 22:13 moodaepo How long did it take to run LL into the ground by the way 22:13 chris moodaepo: i dont know of many proprietary perl programmers .. i guess there must be some though ;) 22:14 moodaepo I actually have a friend with the darkside who uses perl...it's the bsd license which is attractive. Another one uses it at UBS. 22:15 jdavidb moodaepo: As I see it, the wheels started to fall off about last Christmas. The crash-landing isn't complete yet, so maybe a year, by the time it all falls over. 22:15 rhcl Hey, does anybody know/remember who it was that released the Koha VM iso? 22:15 chris BSD is not copyleft, but its still open source 22:15 chris yep, lemme find the link rhcl 22:15 jdavidb Kyle, wasn't it? 22:15 brendan yes Kyle 22:15 chris kyle did one 22:15 chris http://www.mizstik.com/projects/koha-livecd/ 22:16 brendan and the livecd 22:16 chris this one is the most recent i know of 22:16 rhcl We're having a heck of a time setting static IP addresses with it. 22:16 chris ahh the VM one, is kyle yep 22:16 chris ping him on the mailing list 22:26 chris_n2 well, I had to post a response :-P 22:27 chris_n2 bbl 22:27 chris chris_n2++ 22:28 chris that is a wonderful response 22:31 collum excellent response chris_n2 22:34 brendan chris_n2-away++ 22:56 chris poor owen 22:56 chris http://twitter.com/oleonard/status/4040171720 22:57 chris how did joe wilson get on the liblime users list i wonder 22:57 gmcharlt it's a peculiarly USian thing, I think, that the term socialist is a deadly insult 22:57 chris oh yeah, over here thats a compliment 22:58 chris its like "oh you care about people other than yourself" 22:58 brendan yup I agree with gmcharlt - that's an insult here 22:58 chris brendan: yep im sure they meant it as insult 22:58 chris ad hominem = you lost 22:58 brendan *sigh* 23:10 Jo whoah .. 23:10 Jo jjust read my emails 23:11 Jo Chris_n2 message was pretty hnoinest 23:11 chris yeah 23:12 chris i wish that the supporters could show the same level of intellectual honesty 23:12 chris (supporters of the fork that is) 23:13 chris for librarians, they seem spectularly unable to do basic research 23:13 chris labouring under the delusion liblime created koha, and that no one else ever has had anything to do with it 23:14 chris and that even if they had, it would be without any input from libraries/librarians 23:14 Jo well liblime kminds encouraged that myth 23:14 Jo hence why we had to stick to our guns with the code4lib story 23:14 chris of course, but its not hard to disprove with some basic research 23:15 chris its also telling that the biggest detractors of the community, are those that have chosen never to become involved 23:17 chris anyone who resorts to calling someone a socialist as if it was an insult, probably has a tenuous grasp on reality anyway 23:17 * chris is over this bullshit 23:17 chris can you tell? 23:21 Jo yep :) 23:21 Jo i am too tobe honest 23:22 Jo i think joshua has made his bed now and will have to lie in it. 23:22 brendan overthisbullshit++ 23:22 brendan hi Jo 23:23 brendan little embarrassed for my home state (ben ide) is from the same state that I grew up in 23:29 Jo waves at Brendan ;) 23:30 Jo (still feeling very warm towards to Brendan for hiring Nicole :) 23:30 brendan YAY -- we are so excited 23:30 brendan nengard++ 23:31 brendan Nicole will help us out so much 23:31 brendan And we are going encourage her to get more involved in the community -- if that is even possbile 23:37 Jo enough picking over old bones - off to do real work now - librarian work ... not developer work :) (coz you know, they are like the bad guys :) 23:37 chris hehe 23:37 gmcharlt socialist non-librarian developers of the world, unite! 23:43 brendan United !! 23:44 brendan Looking for a KOHA socialist t-shirt to send to owen