Time Nick Message 11:48 gmcharlt cool 11:48 sarbartha gmcharlt: It was installed. And i have solved the problem by restarting the terminal. Thanks. 11:46 kf hi gmcharlt 11:43 gmcharlt hi |Lupin| 11:43 |Lupin| hello gmcharlt ! 11:42 gmcharlt sarbartha: do you have the requisite YAZ libraries installed? 11:35 sarbartha I can't install Net::Z3950::ZOOM this module of CPAN even after useing force. 11:30 sarbartha ok I have solved it. 11:20 sarbartha How to install those things? 11:20 sarbartha Warning: prerequisite GD 2.39 not found. Warning: prerequisite HTTP::OAI 3.2 not found. Warning: prerequisite JSON 2.07 not found. Warning: prerequisite Net::Z3950::ZOOM 1.16 not found. Warning: prerequisite PDF::Reuse::Barcode 0.05 not found. Warning: prerequisite Text::Iconv 1.7 not found. Warning: prerequisite XML::SAX::Writer 0.44 not found. 11:20 sarbartha I am trying to install Koha on fedora 10 64 bit. When I run "perl ./Makefile.PL" it gave me some warning : 10:37 Amit hi martinorris 10:35 martinmorris hello all, i'm having a difficulty with barcode printing and wondered if there was any advice out there 10:17 |Lupin| guten Apetit kf ! 10:17 kf lunch time bbl 10:15 kf good night jransom 10:15 kf wrote my todolist for today while watching torchwood yesterday 10:15 |Lupin| see you jransom 10:14 jransom goodnight Chris, Lupin, Kf 10:14 |Lupin| :) 10:14 kf :) 10:14 chris its 10.15pm .. no one is paying me at the moment :-) its addictive 10:13 chris we'll get you hooked 10:13 |Lupin| chris: not sure how much time I will have to do so inmy new life... 10:13 |Lupin| chris: paiyed to work on Koha till end of november, after that, finished. 10:13 chris you'll just have to keep on sending patches :-) 10:12 |Lupin| chris: yeah but I'll probably not be as involved with Koha as know when this happens 10:12 chris np 10:12 jransom Thanks for the report Chris 10:10 chris but there will be another one in europe im sure 10:10 chris you both missed the first kohacon (in france) 10:07 |Lupin| my organisation is unfortunately too small and too new to organise something 10:06 chris *nod* 10:06 kf inviting him for doing a presentation or keynote I think 10:05 |Lupin| chris: by "invite" you mean pay fo you to come, or just say that we would be happy to welcome you ? 10:03 chris invite me to speak, and i might be able to get work to pay for it :-) 10:02 kf yeah, dreaming about that too :) 09:58 kf ok 09:57 chris yep 09:57 kf write an index and then add a link to all help pages? 09:55 chris search needs something to reindex the help pages every so often 09:55 chris ie thats a manual thing 09:55 chris that just needs someone to make it 09:55 chris index is easy 09:55 kf But I think the a search feature or index would be great additions 09:54 |Lupin| indeed 09:52 kf many possibilities :) 09:52 chris or scp 09:52 chris or webdav 09:51 chris yep 09:51 kf no, I think we can figure out something, upload with ftp or something 09:51 |Lupin| meaning not everybody will be able to add images...probably not a problem for you kf 09:51 kf yes, it would be nicer to do that inside of koha 09:50 |Lupin| hmm bt you'll need to be able to upload the image somehow 09:50 kf thats fine 09:50 chris you could do an <img src etc 09:49 chris so yeah, if you put an image somewhere 09:49 kf ok, is there a link I can add? 09:49 chris you can add html 09:49 kf just checking if there is an option for adding pictures too 09:49 chris kf: can you do that please? 09:49 kf always in my personal koha timeline :) 09:49 chris there was 7 years it wasnt there :) 09:49 kf you should really update the wiki to tell people online help cant be edited there ;) 09:48 chris not always :) 09:48 chris well the last 2 years or so yeah 09:48 |Lupin| :) 09:48 kf so it has always been there 09:48 chris got added in hmm 2006/2007 09:48 chris kapiti district libraries asked for that feature 09:48 kf and the editor is nice 09:47 chris :) 09:47 kf thats great - why did I never see that? 09:46 kf ah ok g 09:46 kf permission problem? 09:46 kf Cannot write file: '/usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE/modules/help/cataloguing/addbooks.tmpl' 09:46 |Lupin| :) 09:46 chris and the webserver will need to have write permission to the help dir 09:45 chris yeah, try for any of the other pages 09:45 kf just tried for start page of koha, but got an error message: Cannot write file: '/usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE/modules/help/.tmpl' 09:44 kf where does the text go, I add there? 09:44 chris righto 09:44 kf yes 09:44 chris were you thinking a little search box on there 09:44 kf yeah, never noticed it before 09:44 |Lupin| chris: assuming hardware devices are catalogued, I'm wondering it hte fact that one given book has to be encrypted for one platform can be represented... 09:44 chris add help, close window, edit help 09:43 chris kf: so on the help page it has 09:42 |Lupin| kf: ok :) 09:41 kf we just discussed how to do it and I promised to ask some questions :) 09:41 kf yes, I plan to do that, but I didn't write any documentation yet 09:40 |Lupin| kf: well but if all that can interest the community, you may put it on Koha's website, in the contrib section or whereever... 09:39 kf chris++ 09:37 kf and online help is only for one template, do explain a whole workflow a manual or step by step guide is better 09:36 kf are there screenshots in online help now? *wonders* 09:36 kf and I think you need more screenshots 09:35 kf lupin: so its good if you forget about details, but I think for training you need a manual 09:35 chris i could do that pretty fast 09:35 chris search function 09:35 chris hmm 09:35 kf lupin: online help is great, when you know where to go, but there is no directory or search function 09:33 |Lupin| kf: the other part is outside of koha because specific to your settings ? 09:32 kf not for patrons, only for staff, one thing is the online-help within koha, the other part is a manual with sreenshots and step by step guides 09:31 kf my problem is, that the documentation for our users wont be a one to one translation of this manuel, perhaps different other more chapters, so I m a bit unhappy with calling it translation 09:31 |Lupin| kf: this is intended to be read by staff client only or also by patrons ? 09:30 |Lupin| kf: ah ok 09:30 kf lupin: sorry, I meant the manual for koha which is inside of plone now 09:30 |Lupin| kf: if it's plone related shouldn't it be in plone itself ? 09:29 kf ok 09:29 chris there are sections for templates there 09:29 chris http://contribs.koha.org/ 09:29 kf still not sure if it does make sense for us to translate plone manual :( 09:28 chris and maybe put the files up at contrib.koha.org 09:28 kf ok 09:28 chris *nod* 09:28 kf so after creating templates from po ovewrite those files with our own? 09:27 chris kf: the help files it might be better to just translate the .tmpl files themselves po doesnt really work for them 09:27 jransom lol -love it 09:26 chris jransom: translates to "No, I wont diagnose your network problems" 09:26 chris kf: yes 09:26 kf same is for user documentation, is it possible to translate nicoles manual in plone? 09:25 chris jransom: http://www.cafepress.com.au/Katipo.4062330 09:25 kf problem is: documentation will not only be a translation, but we will want to extend it to explain things differently or for a different workflow 09:24 chris heh 09:24 jransom Chris: thats great. My favourite tee is: "Slavery got shit done" 09:24 kf ok 09:24 chris its just in the .tmpl files (and hence in the .po) 09:24 chris no, doesnt come from the wiki anymore 09:23 kf It seems context/online help comes from the wiki, is this still true? is it possible to add other languages there? I know its in the .po-files also, but promised to ask about it 09:23 chris kf: ahh right 09:23 chris jransom: http://www.zazzle.com/i_cant_brain_today_i_have_the_dumb_tshirt-235398681114584156 09:22 kf we talked about which platform to use for German documentation yesterday and I m unsure whats best 09:22 kf chris, time for another question? 09:21 jransom what kind of grammar is that 09:21 chris looking now 09:21 chris i cant brain today i have the dumb 09:20 chris yeah 09:20 chris sweet 09:20 jransom can you access it 09:20 jransom i pasted the sql into the catalyst ticket system. 09:20 chris cool, and if you have the sql for that report that would be great 09:20 jransom alrightthats great. 09:20 chris cool 09:20 jransom ok .. she hasn'tincluded those so i will chat with her about those. 09:20 chris leave the %s 09:20 chris if its %s 09:19 chris thats right 09:19 jransom the translation has to still have the # and then the tagalog phrase right 09:19 chris yep 09:19 jransom now, when the bit to be translated is somethig like : # days in advance 09:19 jransom ok. so best match of a phrase (for want of a better word) whendoing the translation 09:18 chris it doesnt have to be one word tho 09:18 chris exactly 09:18 jransom like Mana doesn't translate with 1 word into english 09:18 chris pretty much all 09:18 jransom but i guess that is the case withmany languages.. 09:18 chris yep 09:17 jransom and sometimes no equivalent. 09:17 jransom and ssometimes needs 4 words to describe a single english word. 09:17 jransom but they have 4 words for adult 09:17 jransom she is struggling to find direct translations... for instance we have the word adult 09:16 jransom ok. now, couple of questions. 09:16 jransom there you go! 09:16 chris they both do now 09:16 chris that one didnt have submit rights 09:15 chris she made one called Celle 09:15 chris i gave that the rights 09:15 chris she made a user celle 09:15 chris right the problem is 09:15 chris :) 09:15 jransom wretched son is using all the bandwidth i think. 09:15 jransom sorry about that 09:09 chris the user Celle didnt have submit 09:09 chris i gave that the rigths 09:09 chris earlier 09:09 chris she had made one called celle 09:08 chris ahhh 09:06 chris and submit 09:06 chris copy, suggest 09:06 chris should have back, skip fuzzy 09:05 chris you dont see the submit button? 09:05 jransom http://translate.koha.org/tl/opac3_0/tl-PH-i-opac-t-prog-v-3000000.po?translate=1&item=0&pofilename=tl-PH-i-opac-t-prog-v-3000000.po 09:05 jransom no. i see the suggest button 09:04 chris jransom: do you have the sql for that report? 09:04 chris if she clicks submit, it goes straight in 09:03 chris if she clicks suggest, it goes in like that, and needs someone to click the tick 09:03 chris see how there is a submit and a suggest button 09:03 chris jransom: right 09:03 jransom ok - so i have one that she made a suggestion for..items added to your cart. 09:02 chris |Lupin|: as i say it depends on what you want to do with them, if you want to circulate them like you would a book, ie assign them to a user, then why not catalogue them like a book :) 09:01 |Lupin| chris: thanks for the advice! It looks very counter-intuitive to me but well... :) 09:01 chris so if you click on the edit link jo 09:01 chris cool 09:00 |Lupin| chris: ok... will have to think about it... 09:00 jransom user = Celle 09:00 chris cos i think she has made 2.. that might be the problem 09:00 chris user even 09:00 chris with which used? 08:59 jransom i've logged into Celle's pootle account. 08:59 chris it all depends on what you want to do with it, cataloguing them is just a different approach 08:59 chris then issued them to people :) 08:58 chris as i say, people have catalogued meeting rooms in it 08:58 |Lupin| chris: ok 08:58 chris |Lupin|: in marc21 one of the 9xx local use fields 08:58 chris cos then you cant issue items to them :) 08:56 |Lupin| and if koha can catalogue anything... why not cataloguing the borrowers themseelves ? 08:55 |Lupin| so where in Marc would you guys store something like a public key ? 08:55 kf :) 08:54 kf we have libraries lending out keys 08:54 chris you can catalogue anything with it 08:54 chris and there is nothign that says koha is just for books 08:54 chris exactly 08:54 |Lupin| well I mean a hardware divice and a book are totally different things with different attributes... 08:53 |Lupin| no it's not a format ! 08:53 chris its just a catalogue there is no golden rule to say it can only catalogue books 08:53 chris people have catalogued rooms in koha :-) 08:52 chris this is just another format 08:52 chris they are for cds, dvds, video, whatever 08:52 chris well library catalogues arent just for books 08:52 |Lupin| cataloue hardware devices asi if they were books ??? 08:52 |Lupin| what do you mean ? 08:52 chris ie catalogue them, with a special itemtype 08:52 |Lupin| hmm ? 08:51 chris and issue them to users 08:51 chris could you just make them items in your catalogue 08:51 chris hmmm 08:50 |Lupin| chris: so assume that, given a user one wants to retrieve all the devices she owns, I'm not sure a simple join will work... 08:50 |Lupin| chris: the only problem is that extended attributes can't really be numbers 08:49 chris yeah that sounds like a good idea 08:48 |Lupin| chris: does this look reasonable to you ? 08:48 |Lupin| and this second table contains the actual definitions of each secured reader 08:48 |Lupin| which is in fact a key refering to another table 08:47 chris k 08:47 |Lupin| chris: the way I plan to encode this in Koha is to use one extended patron attribute called reader 08:47 chris right 08:47 |Lupin| chris: so each device has a manufacturer, a model id, serial number, a public key that allows us to encrypt a book specifically for that device. 08:46 |Lupin| chris: it's a device that lets them read a book 08:46 |Lupin| chris: our users have what we call secured readers 08:46 |Lupin| chris: thanks a lot 08:45 chris |Lupin|: sure do 08:44 jransom thats cool. 08:43 chris i didnt look very hard jransom 08:43 |Lupin| chris: do you have a few minutes to discuss a design choice with me, please ? 08:43 jransom i thought she said she'd done 200+ words 08:42 jransom so thats the tagalog translations. 08:42 chris i only see one suggestion so far 08:40 jransom just sent you an email reminding you about runing a report for us 08:38 jransom is she making good progress? 08:38 jransom ok - I'll let her know. 08:37 jransom is it clear what she needsto do differently 08:37 chris t 08:37 chris she can review them, and in future can just submit straigh 08:37 jransom ah thanks for that. 08:36 chris so they need to be reviewed 08:35 chris she is doing suggestions 08:35 chris i figured out what celle is doing wrong 08:35 chris heya jo 08:32 |Lupin| hi jransom 08:31 jransom hiya 07:45 kf hi hdl 07:41 |Lupin| hello hdl 07:35 osslabs hi hdl 07:35 hdl_laptop hi chris 07:31 chris hi |Lupin| and kf 07:30 |Lupin| hey chris 07:25 kf hi chris 07:25 chris evening 06:55 kf hi Amit 06:55 Amit hi kf 06:50 |Lupin| kf: gut ! 06:44 kf Guten morgen lupin, sehr ausgeruht heute morgen, bin auch ein bisschen später zur Arbeit. 06:36 |Lupin| Gutentag kf. Gut geschlafen ? Ausgeruht oder abgebrochen ? 06:14 |Lupin| hello nicolas 06:09 |Lupin| hey Amit 06:07 Amit hi lupin 06:01 |Lupin| hello 05:49 greenmang0 indradg: good morning 05:24 munin osslabs: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 32.0°C (10:30 AM IST on July 30, 2009). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 24.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa (Steady). 05:21 osslabs @wunder New Delhi, India 04:37 eb_inLibro Hey folks. Just passing by to say good night :) 03:15 Amit hi chirs 03:14 Amit hi Koha good morning 02:12 Jo Celle is doing the Tagalog translations, and is a bit concerned that her progress is not displaying. Her work isn't getting lost but she wonders if she is saving it correctly. 02:05 Jo Chris: you about? 01:42 pianohacker Good night 01:11 pianohacker np 01:06 Kyle thats the most helpful yet 01:06 Kyle thank you very much 01:06 Kyle Yes i did 01:05 pianohacker Bleh, internet weirdness. Did you get my last message? 01:05 pianohacker Yes. You could either transfer over the entire database, or just export the records on your computer and import them on the server 01:01 Kyle If I were to start entering books on one computer after our it guy gets it installed on our server will i be able to transfer these ? 01:01 pianohacker k 01:01 pianohacker no prob. See ya 01:00 Kyle Actually one more question 00:59 Kyle okay thats all thank you very much you have been very helpful 00:58 pianohacker You won't have to enter the full details for every book 00:58 pianohacker You can find many records using Z39.50 searching, which is integrated with Koha 00:58 pianohacker However 00:58 pianohacker You will have to look up and enter dewey decimal numbers yourself 00:56 Kyle will this be entered by koha automatically or will i need to look it up? 00:56 Kyle for dui decimal system (i have no clue on spelling that one)... 00:55 pianohacker Anything else I can help with? 00:55 pianohacker No problem 00:55 Kyle oh thank you so much 00:53 pianohacker http://koha.org/documentation/manual/3.0/cataloging 00:53 pianohacker There is an excellent manual I can point you to that will at least help you with Koha cataloging (MARC is another ball of wax, but you should be able to find tutorials for it also) 00:52 Kyle okay 00:52 pianohacker Unfortunately, no. You will have to be familiar with MARC cataloging 00:51 Kyle to enter in a book will there be tutorials in the program? 00:50 pianohacker k 00:50 Kyle pianohacker: Im back and I have a few more questions 00:32 gmcharlt yes, welcome Kyle 00:32 pianohacker Feel free to ask more either here or on the mailing list 00:32 pianohacker Not a problem 00:31 Kyle thank you for your help 00:31 Kyle oh i g2g 00:31 Kyle i bet 00:31 pianohacker But it's helpful in a busy chatroom 00:31 pianohacker There you go. You don't have to do that on every line if it's just you and someone else chatting 00:30 Kyle pianohacker: oh thanks 00:30 pianohacker k, thanks 00:30 gmcharlt no, it will be accepted, so feel free to count on the plugin 00:30 pianohacker I think that mibbit should fill in the name if you enter in, say, piano then hit the Tab key 00:29 pianohacker gmcharlt: Any immediate problems with Joe's highlighting patch? I was going to use the plugin for my prefs project, wondered if there were any glaring reasons it wouldn't be accepted 00:29 Kyle im new to the whole irs chat thing how do you put the name next to it? 00:28 pianohacker Kyle: yes 00:28 gmcharlt pianohacker: pong 00:28 Kyle just wondering does koha make spine labels like the ones in a public library 00:28 Kyle okay thanks 00:25 pianohacker Ouch. If you don't need to integrate your label printer closely with Koha, you might be able to get a cheaper standalone one 00:24 Kyle The school is having money problems so all expenses come out of my pocket 00:24 Kyle thats great 00:24 pianohacker Pretty much. 00:24 Kyle ? 00:23 Kyle Sorry one more Koha question...total hardware is just barcode scanner printer 00:23 Kyle neat 00:22 pianohacker Colorado, about an hour east of the mountains 00:22 Kyle haha just wondering where are you 00:22 pianohacker No, but I don't live in Washington. You'd think I did given how much rain we've gotten, but... 00:21 Kyle it 00:21 Kyle oops 00:21 Kyle haha i doubt i 00:21 Kyle ever heard of it 00:21 pianohacker Ah 00:20 Kyle The River Academy in Wenatchee Washington 00:19 pianohacker What school is this, out of curiosity? 00:19 pianohacker No problem 00:19 Kyle thank you 00:18 Kyle oh cool that helps alot 00:18 pianohacker Koha doesn't do anything too special with its labels, just generates a PDF that you print 00:18 pianohacker I _believe_ so, but your quality would depend on the printer 00:18 Kyle can i use label sheets in a normal printer? 00:17 Kyle Well actually my question is if i need to 00:17 Kyle I am trying to set up Koha for my school I need to buy a label printer 00:17 pianohacker Kyle: Sure, what do you need? 00:16 Kyle Hello I was wondering if someone could help me 00:16 Brooke *nod* when it rains it po's 00:15 pianohacker Not much. Coding, enjoying the seattle-esque drenching this part of colorado has gotten these past few days 00:15 Brooke what's up? 00:14 pianohacker Hi, Brooke 00:14 Brooke dunno just logged on 00:11 pianohacker gmcharlt: around? 22:46 chris :) 22:28 Snow_Fox hrm it got quiet 20:51 sekjal good day, chris. 20:49 sekjal I need to be more rigourous about which account I use to work on what 20:48 pianohacker Good morning chris 20:48 chris ahhh that't do it 20:48 sekjal I still can't get authorities to search, though 20:48 sekjal whoops 20:48 sekjal fixed my zebra issue. turns out, my intranet and opac directories were owned by root, instead of my koha user 20:43 gmcharlt hi chris 20:43 wizzyrea chris! Good morning! 20:42 chris morning 20:42 wizzyrea just means you don't have system staff (like me) to hassle, you go direct to LL :P 20:42 Snow_Fox woo? 20:41 wizzyrea standalone 20:41 wizzyrea they're actually separate from any of the kansas consortia 20:41 Snow_Fox guess is as good as mine at this stage :-P 20:41 wizzyrea NCKLS, I think 20:41 pianohacker CKLS? 20:41 Snow_Fox were central kansas 20:41 Snow_Fox honestly im not sure which hunk im with 20:41 pianohacker ah. 20:40 wizzyrea Salina 20:40 wizzyrea no, he's not in SEKLS 20:27 Snow_Fox i guess we will find out when we get there 20:27 Snow_Fox i dunno anymore :s 20:25 pianohacker cool 20:25 Snow_Fox i think oct 20:25 pianohacker Snow_Fox: You're part of SEKLS, right? When are you going live? 20:23 Snow_Fox welp time to email beverly i suppose 20:23 Snow_Fox good time to diet as any 20:23 pianohacker Interestingly, I'm not hungry anymore 20:23 pianohacker Yup 20:22 Snow_Fox kinda a meathy sluck whomp sound 20:22 Snow_Fox i would think thats close to it 20:22 pianohacker <whuck> 20:22 pianohacker <shoom> 20:21 Snow_Fox :-P 20:21 Snow_Fox pickaxe 20:21 Snow_Fox pianohacker would you please 20:21 pianohacker Ayup 20:21 Snow_Fox id have to bug liblime 20:21 Snow_Fox ok so if i want my checkout notice to have a date and due date information 20:20 pianohacker Those "certain fields" can be changed, but only by whoever is setting up the cronjobs 20:20 pianohacker Ugly solution, but it gets the job done 20:20 pianohacker Snow_Fox: It's a virtual field, generated by taking certain fields from each item and smushing them together with tabs and newlines 20:19 Snow_Fox or the manual 20:19 Snow_Fox like in the database? 20:18 owen It's "items.content" that you need to investigate 20:17 Snow_Fox diddly 20:17 Snow_Fox i can tell you 20:16 owen Snow_Fox: it's not necessarily that you don't have access, but I think there are special steps for some of it 20:14 Snow_Fox ok in regards to checkout notices etc, when apparently i dont have access to all the database values to include in the email is there a way to print the due date and other information in some sort of ugly work around 20:14 pianohacker Besides, it would be a reach to call some of us perl _fans_ 20:14 pianohacker Heh. Galen set it up, I think he uses both :) 20:13 |Lupin| so even perl fans may run a bot written in Python... 20:09 pianohacker rhcl: Munin's just the local name; it runs supybot 19:39 Snow_Fox k but even though thats not listed with the items like bilbio.etc would it still work? 19:38 gmcharlt Snow_Fox: no, issues.issuesdate is what you're looking for 19:38 |Lupin| since this morning (more than 12 hours ago) the mail server at the university here is down and today they coulnd't ifnd anybody to repair it. 19:37 Snow_Fox or could i sued issue.timestamp even though its not listed to the side 19:37 Snow_Fox so would that do the same thing as issue.timestamp 19:37 gmcharlt biblio.timestamp indeed records bib's last modification 19:36 |Lupin| there is biblio.creationdate for storing when the book has been created 19:36 owen biblio.timestamp is probably just the last time it was modified 19:35 Snow_Fox for the Item Check out Digest 19:35 Snow_Fox i dont have that in the list 19:35 |Lupin| owen: ah, hman mind... focuses on just one decrease and forgets the 30 ++ ! WE are all like that :) 19:35 Snow_Fox issues.timestamp ok 19:35 jdavidb issues.timestamp would be that; not sure about biblio.timestamp. 19:34 |Lupin| Snow_Fox: dunno 19:34 Snow_Fox hey is the biblio.timestamp the timestamp when the book was checked out or does it represent a different value 19:33 jdavidb Doesn't seem so, at least from the command interface. 19:32 |Lupin| is it possible to see who incremented it ? 19:32 |Lupin| hmm? 19:32 munin jdavidb: Karma for "owen" has been increased 31 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 30. 19:32 jdavidb @karma owen 19:32 munin |Lupin|: Karma for "|Lupin|" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4. 19:32 |Lupin| @karma |Lupin| 19:32 |Lupin| karma |Lupin| 19:31 wizzyrea well it was bound to happen sometime ^.^ 19:31 jdavidb Thanks, wizzyrea! :D 19:31 wizzyrea :P 19:31 wizzyrea not anymore 19:31 owen jdavidb is like Switzerland. 19:31 wizzyrea jdavidb++ 19:30 munin jdavidb: jdavidb has neutral karma. 19:30 jdavidb @karma jdavidb 19:30 munin jdavidb: Karma for "wizzyrea" has been increased 14 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 14. 19:30 jdavidb @karma wizzyrea 19:30 Snow_Fox hey is the biblio.timestamp the timestamp when the book was checked out? 19:30 rhcl How many munins are there? In the July 2009 issue of LinuxPro Magazine there is an article on Munin, the network monitor. 19:30 wizzyrea wahoo! 19:30 |Lupin| wizzyrea: already the good effects of you recently accumulated positive karma ? :) 19:29 |Lupin| :-) 19:29 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Paris, France is 26.0°C (9:00 PM CEST on July 29, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 34%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Rising). 19:29 wizzyrea @wunder Paris, France 19:29 |Lupin| hmm 19:28 munin |Lupin|: Error: No such location could be found. 19:28 |Lupin| @wunder paris 19:28 |Lupin| grrrr 19:28 munin |Lupin|: I suck 19:28 |Lupin| @under paris 19:28 |Lupin| hmm ? 19:28 slef |Lupin|: no o 19:28 munin |Lupin|: downloading the Perl source 19:28 |Lupin| @wounder paris 19:28 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Woodley Gardens, Rockville, Maryland is 27.6°C (3:25 PM EDT on July 29, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.70 in 1005.6 hPa (Falling). 19:27 jdavidb @wunder Rockville, maryland 19:27 jdavidb Hmp. Well. 19:27 slef yay for UDI 19:27 slef that's it - have to put SOMERSET as the country :-/ 19:27 munin slef: The current temperature in Weston-Super-Mare, United Kingdom is 15.1°C (8:27 PM BST on July 29, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010.0 hPa (Steady). 19:27 slef @wunder Weston-super-Mare, SOMERSET 19:27 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is 27.9°C (3:27 PM EDT on July 29, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Falling). 19:27 jdavidb @wunder Bethesda, MD 19:26 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is 27.9°C (3:26 PM EDT on July 29, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Falling). 19:26 jdavidb @wunder Bethesda, Maryland 19:26 slef there's something odd... just can't remember what, though 19:26 munin slef: Error: No such location could be found. 19:26 slef @wunder Wick St Lawrence, SOMERSET 19:26 munin slef: Error: No such location could be found. 19:26 slef @wunder Wick St Lawrence SOMERSET 19:26 munin slef: (wunder <US zip code | US/Canada city, state | Foreign city, country>) -- Returns the approximate weather conditions for a given city. 19:26 slef @wunder 19:26 munin slef: Error: No such location could be found. 19:26 slef @wunder Wick St Lawrence UK 19:26 munin slef: Error: No such location could be found. 19:26 slef @wunder Wick St Lawrence UNITED KINGDOM 19:26 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 24.9°C (2:25 PM CDT on July 29, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.87 in 1011.4 hPa (Rising). 19:25 wizzyrea @wunder lawrence, ks 19:25 slef damn it I can't remember my location :) 19:25 munin slef: Error: No such location could be found. 19:25 slef @wunder Wick St Lawrence ENGLAND 19:25 |Lupin| what's RDA ? 19:25 munin |Lupin|: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready 19:25 |Lupin| @wounder paris 19:24 slef owen: yeah, early example of the usual problem with stuff that just gets thrown over the wall 19:23 owen slef: Yes 19:23 munin slef: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready 19:23 slef munin: are you leaving? 19:23 wizzyrea i will cry, he's a good friend 19:22 slef owen: you're talking about the argentine fork? 19:22 wizzyrea o no, is munin going away? 19:22 Snow_Fox ? 19:22 wizzyrea yay karma! 19:22 jdavidb wizzyrea++ 19:22 Snow_Fox thankyou 19:22 Snow_Fox wizzy got me lupin 19:18 |Lupin| Snow_Fox: what's the problem ? 19:18 Snow_Fox i know i must seems like a needy step child 19:18 Snow_Fox anyone here that can help me with email notices? 19:17 |Lupin| just that some people do not have this understanding, which is IMO too bad 19:17 |Lupin| jdavidb: I certainly agree with that 19:16 jdavidb It *is* more work. And it is more work to code it in a more-general way, so that you *can* submit it. But the long-term bennies, IMO are much greater. 19:14 |Lupin| maybe people are reluctant to submitting patches because they feel it's more job, which I think is true in the short term... 19:14 wizzyrea on multiple fronts 19:14 wizzyrea yes, this is a subject that I imagine will have lots of discussion very soon. 19:13 |Lupin| to keep the difference between the official one and ours as tiny as possible 19:13 wizzyrea vermont wouldn't be the only ones doing that kind of thing 19:13 |Lupin| but I'll definitely try to submit as amny things as possible 19:13 |Lupin| here the project wI'm working for will produce a modified Koha 19:13 |Lupin| :) 19:12 owen At least most of us can speak Vermontish. 19:12 |Lupin| that's why the choice does not make much sense tome 19:12 owen I would hate to see the same happen with the Vermont folks. 19:12 |Lupin| yeah 19:12 owen They also eliminated any possibility of upgrading along with new "official" version of Koha 19:11 Snow_Fox well 19:11 Snow_Fox i dunno 19:11 |Lupin| since it's a way of delegating maintainance... 19:11 |Lupin| it sounds better to integrate as much as possible 19:11 |Lupin| but even from a "selfish" point of view 19:11 jdavidb Ah...well, fair enough; it does make it tough on the community to try to integrate such code. Still kinda stinks, though. 19:11 |Lupin| well 19:10 owen They just wanted something that worked for them. 19:10 owen I think the core of the problem was that they didn't really have their hearts in participating in the Koha community 19:10 |Lupin| I guess they wanted to wait till their code was mature, that's why hey came up with one big ting ? 19:10 owen I'll be chris would remember more details 19:09 |Lupin| oh god 19:09 owen Eventually they submitted it all in one giant chunk, but no one here had the time or Spanish skills to comb through it and figure out how to integrate it into the official version (which has since diverged) 19:09 |Lupin| and then ? 19:08 owen I can't remember the library now, but they did a ton of work extending Koha's functionality in the 2.x days 19:07 jdavidb what on earth happened? 19:07 owen Lots of good work lost 19:06 owen ...but releasing doesn't necessarily mean incorporating them into the official version 19:05 owen A response to my comment on that second link said "As we leave our beta testing phase this Fall and feel confident in them, we’ll be sure to release the items we’ve coded." 19:05 jdavidb Yah. Sounds like they're going after some (much-needed) work to make it more consortium-suitable...but will we ever see taht? 19:03 owen The phrase "a Vermont version of Koha" has got me a little worried. 19:03 jdavidb Not one of ours; they may be going it alone. 19:03 owen http://gmlc.wordpress.com/koha-project/ 19:03 owen "vokal has since grown to nearly 30 libraries, all of whom are contributing funds to the consortium to provide additional design and programming services to create a Vermont version of Koha." 19:02 owen Anyone know anything about this? http://openilsvt.pbworks.com/ 19:00 |Lupin| hi again 18:59 sekjal cheers, all 18:59 sekjal now, unfortunately, I must lean over to my reference desk shift. 18:58 sekjal I tend to lean that way, myself 18:57 jdavidb The current passion seems to be dis-integrating the ILS...maybe I'm old-fashioned--or just old--but from a library staffer's perspective, it seems to me it'd be nicer to have One Repository To Go To. 18:53 jdavidb It's pretty snazzy. 18:53 sekjal jdavidb: never used Horizon, but that sounds right 18:53 jdavidb sekjal: Something like Horizon's table editor? You can set up records, and display/maintenance forms that are stored in the database, not as code. Very flexible stuff. 18:53 sekjal not as slick as Git, true, but it could work 18:52 sekjal just keep all versions as separate records, with additional metadata indicating their place in the version tree 18:51 sekjal I think it could be set up to handle versions just fine 18:50 jdavidb It would allow storage in mixed-formats, too, so you could keep the "original" imported record, and use the crosswalks to create consistent display and indexing. 18:50 jdavidb pianohacker: yeah, crosswalk techniques would be useful to have, too. Then you could cobble up an OPAC in any sort of flavor you want, as well as import-export methods. 18:49 pianohacker It could. It would impede version tracking of those files, though 18:49 sekjal it could also store the XSLT 18:48 sekjal if it used XML Schema, it could store those in the same way as the data itself 18:48 pianohacker jdavidb: You'd also need XSLT or Perl/Python/whatever scripts to convert it to MARCXML/MODS/DublinCore/etc., if you want interoperability 18:47 jdavidb Ideally, such a system could use a well-defined DTD, plus one other document to tell it how to *index*, and that'd be all it needed. That's a reach. 18:47 sekjal gmcharlt: indeed 18:46 gmcharlt sekjal: I imagine he was rather relieved to discover that the correspondance went only so far 18:45 jdavidb Snow_Fox, that'd almost be what it'd take. There would be some useful bits away from the MARC data--circulation, maybe some serials bits, screen interface things...but...The biblio table, and biblioitems, and anything that *touches* them, would need rework. 18:45 sekjal only, you know, not 18:45 sekjal my grandpa used to take nitro for his heart... sounds like the same principle 18:44 pianohacker :) 18:44 pianohacker *cough* python ILS *cough* 18:44 Snow_Fox and kinda rebuild from peices 18:44 Snow_Fox you could shove a stick of TNT into the middle 18:44 jdavidb It'd take major heart surgery to get it there, though...might be quicker to build from the ground back up. *groan* 18:43 gmcharlt yeah, I'm not disagreeing that ideally Koha should support any arbitrary XML metadata format 18:42 jdavidb Part of the current consideration, many times, is "what format can <x> system hold"..this would take that out of the loop. 18:42 pianohacker *opposed 18:42 pianohacker As oppose to the merely several hundred we have now 18:42 gmcharlt yay! let a thousand incomptable metadata formats rise! 18:42 sekjal that it would 18:41 jdavidb on the other hand, a native-XML database would make totally-arbitrary data schema possible. User-created and modified, with no intervention from programmer or vendor, if the interface was slick enough. 18:40 sekjal other data formats can be much more compact, efficient and user-friendly 18:40 sekjal I suppose I can see that 18:38 Snow_Fox hehe 18:38 pianohacker If you want an extreme example, take RDF 18:38 pianohacker I think it's good for some situations; it just seems to keep getting crammed into usages where it's overly verbose and awkward 18:37 sekjal not an XML fan, pianohacker? I keep running into those whenever I start mentioning it 18:36 pianohacker Could I give you $50,000 _not_ to introduce more XML usage into Koha? 18:36 gmcharlt writing good search engines is *hard* - for all the warts, I'd rather have a good external engine 18:36 sekjal put the data storage and indexing into the same program 18:35 sekjal if someone would give me $50,000, I'd be happy to try using a Native XML database as the backend 18:35 pianohacker Much more so than 2.2 search 18:35 sekjal true 18:35 pianohacker However, it's fast and powerful 18:35 pianohacker zebra doesn't help the process by having unhelpful documentation and strangely laid-out code 18:34 sekjal maybe my knowledge just needs to increase 18:34 pianohacker Heh 18:34 sekjal I'm not too sure I'm keen on having an external indexing program. when it works, its great, but when it doesn't... 18:31 sekjal ::grumble:: 18:31 sekjal that did not help 18:20 sekjal I'm thinking perhaps reinstalling idzebra-2.0 18:19 pianohacker Hrm. 18:19 sekjal just logs 18:19 sekjal no, no warnings at all 18:18 pianohacker sekjal: Does running rebuild_zebra.pl with the -v flag give you a warning about Local-number ? 18:17 Snow_Fox oh hell :\ 18:17 sekjal I have a feeling that /var/lib/koha/zebradb/biblios/key should not be empty 18:16 sekjal for some reason, the record number could not be pulled out of the MARC, and thus threw an error of calling a function on a non-existant object 18:15 sekjal I think this might be related to the authority searching problems I was having earlier 18:14 pianohacker Hmm. A search should flood your error log 18:14 sekjal nothing there since a missing favicon error at 10am 18:13 pianohacker The number is what'll give you a vague, usually unhelpful hint at what's going on 18:13 pianohacker There should be a line in your Koha error log with something like ERROR 109 18:13 sekjal running rebuild_zebra.pl, no error 18:12 sekjal when I search, no results 18:12 pianohacker What error do you get? 18:12 sekjal rargh! my zebra index is unsearchable! 17:42 Sharon ta people, have to go consult. 17:39 Sharon it came up at kohacon, but maybe it's time for more serious consideration prior to the next kohacon 17:38 jdavidb Sharon: I agree; a nonprofit foundation, even a minimally-funded one, would give some important stabilizing structure to Koha. I'm fond of the model used by the Apache SF--companies are not listed there; only people. 17:35 cau0730 education saskatchewan was trying to deteremine if koha was a contender for its library system but decided to not give it a try cause of the problems here. all because of the last developer here lol 17:34 Sharon mozilla's done it, so can we! 17:32 Sharon it's definitely a good idea to pursue, as more libraries (and nations) adopt Koha 17:32 jdavidb hee. 17:31 Sharon I'd just delegate it 17:30 Sharon it's just marketing 17:30 Sharon funding a foundation that supports Koha can be sexy 17:29 jdavidb Sponsoring development is not quite as sexy as an endowment, but with the quantity we're doing right now, it's still pretty darn cool. 17:29 gmcharlt but agreed re sending money in the direction of Koha 17:29 gmcharlt Sharon: I don't think the Fed would like that ;) 17:28 Sharon Money is infinite, just need to get some of it filtered in Koha's direction 17:27 jdavidb Funding full-timers is a little more expensive... Need a half-mil or so, bare minimum, to provide for ups and downs in investments. 17:27 Sharon thank you 17:27 Sharon live off the interest...at KC (mo) PL, the library endowment was started by a 'bum' who lived in a little nasty apartment, but saved up $20,000 and gave it all to the library. 17:27 nengard sharon - wilsworld in WI 17:26 jdavidb 100K is a nice little chunk of money. The Friends at my old hometown public had about a 50K endowment, that they used the income to send staff to Texas Library Association every year. Two people, sometimes three, got to go, who wouldn't have. 17:24 Sharon what is wworld that vicki attended and twittered about? 17:21 nengard like now 17:21 nengard i try not to give it if i can help 17:21 nengard beau has zanax for storms!! 17:21 Sharon nengard i'm so thankful my dog is immune to storms, we've had so many lately. 17:20 nengard off ttopic: i have a pup resting his head on my belly cause of the thunder 17:20 Sharon planned giving is big business in urban libraries. You court people and make sure they have the library in their will. 17:20 Sharon actually she wasn't a library patron, but an overall patron of the arts and she thought we were worthy 17:20 nengard good idea with the way lib budgets are 17:20 Sharon my library had a woman die and the sale of her land provided over $100,000 in unexpected funds 17:19 Sharon rich people give money. but the foundation has to be established first. We're in the process of setting up one for the system so small libraries can receive big donations and keep the money out of their general fund. 17:18 nengard Sharon how do endowments work? 17:18 nengard i think we have a big jackpot here - might go buy a ticket :) 17:16 Sharon Endowments are never out of the realm of possibility. I would think OS and Koha would be worthy of a bequeath. 17:13 jdavidb wb, nengard. 17:07 jdavidb I'm doing better than I've ever done in my *life,* owen, but I'm not quite to that point yet. >:) 17:07 jdavidb :D 17:07 owen Let us know when you're independently wealthy! 17:05 jdavidb Never know, owen; I could win the lottery or something. Setting up a KSF endowment would not be outside the realm of possibility. 17:05 owen Since the KSF is far from being a reality, let alone having any money, I don't think it's much worth it. :( 17:04 Sharon Owen are you going to bring that up at the meeting next month? 17:04 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3455 normal, P5, ---, firstname.lastname@example.org, NEW, Full 245 needs to display in Cart and Lists 17:04 Sharon bug 3455 has now been completed 17:03 jdavidb I'm with you on that, owen. 17:03 jdavidb owen: indeed. A few of the ones we've sent have already made it to HEAD, including my bugfix for serials routing slips. And the feedback he gave on one was insightful...nay, brilliant. o 17:03 jdavidb owen: indeed. A few of the ones we've sent have already made it to HEAD, including my bugfix for serials routing slips. And the feedback he gave on one was insightful...nay, brilliant. 17:00 owen Almost as exciting as seeing patches get approved ;) 17:00 owen jdavidb: It's exciting to see the patches come in. It's *always* exciting to see patches come in! :) 17:00 Sharon k 17:00 owen Sharon: bug 17:00 Sharon Bug or enhancement? 17:00 Snow_Fox food time 17:00 Snow_Fox thanks guys you all rock 16:59 Snow_Fox cool 16:59 jdavidb owen: Not as close as one might think, but Colin has been doing a crapload of development stuff in this current go-round. 16:59 owen Snow_Fox: If the patches get approved, they'll show up eventually during your regular updates 16:59 Snow_Fox :-p 16:59 Snow_Fox so i guess the next logical question is how are patchs handled with liblime? 16:59 jdavidb Colin threw the first big batch over the wall this weekend; we've gotten some really good feedback on them already. 16:59 owen jdavidb: Do you and PTFS-Europe work closely together? 16:58 Sharon will do 16:58 Snow_Fox cool beans i think you just made a head librarian very happy 16:58 Sharon jdavidb we are drooling over some of Colin's patches 16:58 owen Sharon: Yes please 16:58 jdavidb Snow_Fox: Watch the patches list; we're releasing a *bunch* of stuff for this customer right now. Either Colin Campbell of PTFS-Eurpoe, or I, will be the ones shipping 'em out. 16:58 Sharon Should I put up a bug for the cart/list issue? 16:57 Snow_Fox is there a way we can keep track of your development jdavid? 16:57 owen Sharon: No. 16:57 pianohacker The current hack involves linking 245$b to the nonexistent table bibliosubtitle 16:57 Sharon Do the cart/lists involve xslt? 16:57 Snow_Fox ill take one module please :=D 16:57 Snow_Fox spiffiness 16:57 owen Sharon: most of your libraries do not charge fines? 16:57 jdavidb It does still show as checked out, Snow_Fox, but with a nice shiny "Claims Returned" message. 16:57 Sharon pianohacker No, only the $a 16:57 owen Sharon: display of subtitle has historically been a problematic issue, so I'm not surprised 16:56 Sharon Fines are evil - we have a few libraries who charge and they want a lot of improvements 16:56 pianohacker Sharon: I hadn't noticed that. Does it show $n and $p ? 16:56 Snow_Fox what about the item being listed as checked out under the patron information system 16:56 jdavidb On claims, it stops charging fines as of the day it was claimed...if later returned, it charges fines as if it was overdue by that long. 16:56 owen pianohacker: I think what jdavidb says is what I was thinking of: a procedure for handling the two differently 16:56 Sharon Had anyone else noticed that Carts and Lists in the OPAC only show the 245 $a and not the subtitle? I'd missed that. 16:55 Snow_Fox thats nifty 16:55 jdavidb owen: our code doesn't...in the case of staff finding, it gives an alert, and then you've got what you need to cancel the fine manually. It uses the "This item was lost" message, just like finding a lost item. 16:55 pianohacker I don't think Koha can distinguish between the two for lost books anyway 16:55 Snow_Fox ill have to ask the head librarian 16:55 Snow_Fox im not sure how fines would work in that case 16:54 owen I'm assuming that in the latter case you'd want to charge them fines 16:54 Snow_Fox i think 16:54 Snow_Fox jdavidb: if that counter is kept with the patron and the claimed items were not listed in there checkout history that would be spiffy 16:54 owen How would the system differentiate between a staff member finding the book on the shelf and checking it in and the patron bringing it back? 16:53 Snow_Fox at least i belive thats the way it was explained to me 16:53 jdavidb Snow_Fox: the new code we've got working isn't *all* of that functionality, but it does take care of keeping the claimed item on the patron account until it's found. We don't have a counter on it, but that wouldn't be terribly hard to implelent. 16:53 Snow_Fox correct 16:53 owen You give them 3 get-out-of-jail-frees and then after that they can't "claim returned" anymore? 16:53 Snow_Fox currently a roundabout has been figured out 16:52 Snow_Fox but we still want a record of how many times a claim has been made 16:52 Snow_Fox and doesnt count agianst them 16:52 Snow_Fox that claim goes away 16:52 Snow_Fox granted if theya re found 16:51 pianohacker Should be public here in the next few months 16:51 Snow_Fox well basically from what it was explained to me and im not a librarian yet :P is a patron comes in and explains that they returned the book x amount of days etc, we give them 3 forgives so to speak and count those 3 items as lost with no impact to the patron 16:50 pianohacker I think PTFS added something similar for one of their customers by adding a Claimed Returned lost value and the code to go along with it 16:50 owen Snow_Fox: How should it work? 16:50 pianohacker Yup :) 16:50 Snow_Fox well that kinda explaisn it 16:49 Snow_Fox really 16:49 pianohacker I don't think Koha currently has a claimed returns system 16:49 Snow_Fox or never checked it out 16:49 Snow_Fox claims in regards to a patron claimed to have returned the book 16:48 pianohacker Snow_Fox: Not too familiar with the acquisitions or serials modules, but I might be able to help 16:48 pianohacker *bye 16:48 pianohacker bype 16:48 ricardo Got to go home. Take care everyone! :) 16:47 Snow_Fox hey piano could you help me understand how koha displays claims? It doesnt seem very intuitive 16:19 pianohacker np 16:19 Snow_Fox thanks piano 16:17 pianohacker intranetreadinghistory, I think 16:16 Snow_Fox anyone off the top of there head know where the syspref for the patron reading history for the circ client is 16:16 Snow_Fox nuts 16:02 nengard must hae been a hiccup 16:02 slef that quote to the end of the bio - plenty of space still 16:02 nengard got it 16:01 slef I can see my feeds 16:00 nengard i can't seem to get any of your rss feeds to load up ... might be my computer - or a feed issue? can you see your feeds? 16:00 nengard or both? 16:00 nengard or to the twitter name? 16:00 nengard also do you want me to add that quote to the title? 16:00 nengard k i'll try that 15:59 slef http://www.news.software.coop/categories/koha/feed/rdf I think 15:58 nengard if it's wordpres I know how to generate that rss feed 15:58 nengard now - do you have an RSS feed just for the Koha tag? What blog software are you using? 15:58 nengard slef here is the pipe: http://pipes.yahoo.com/nengard/kohablogs 15:58 slef also, could add "/ Free Software LMS" to it ;-) 15:57 slef the biog on http://twitter.com/kohails is useless for contacting anyone for help 15:57 slef ok - how can we see what's in the pipe? 15:57 nengard sory about that 15:57 nengard okay - I'll add this feed to the pipe - I think I missed it the first time through 15:56 nengard you sent it already 15:56 nengard oops 15:56 nengard self is it if: http://www.news.software.coop/categories/koha/ 15:56 Snow_Fox ok ill go with that :-P 15:56 slef but more library-relevant than stuff that isn't koha-tagged ;-) 15:56 Snow_Fox existing patrons seem to default that way 15:56 owen atz and Snow_Fox: the patron add screen attempts to build a username based on the first letter of the first name plus the last name I believe 15:56 slef not partic koha-specific that one actually 15:55 slef http://www.news.software.coop/amazon-kindle-un-selling-books/721/ 15:55 nengard i'm still trying to figure this thing out :) 15:55 atz but i'm not sure whether the patron addition screen defaults userid to anything at all 15:55 nengard can you send me a link so i can check it out 15:55 nengard hmmm 15:55 slef nengard: my koha-tagged post didn't get onto kohails recently 15:55 atz yeah, you can log in with either 15:55 atz er... wait... i misread. 15:54 nengard also I know that often the LL blogs have things that are not necessarily Koha related - I often write about general OSS - so I only put my Koha tagged post in the pipe 15:54 Snow_Fox yes or no 15:54 Snow_Fox hey atz if the patron cant validate his username he can default to his card number 15:54 atz Snow_Fox: either way, i believe 15:54 nengard slef I never added it - but I did do was add the koha wiki to the pipe - it wasn't on there before - it looks like that's the only one you had that I didn't 15:51 Snow_Fox hey for the opacs does koha default the patrons username to his card number? 15:47 slef just wondered if kohails couldn't see if for some reason 15:47 slef because I need to move that site between servers anyway 15:47 slef but you might want to hold off for a few days 15:47 slef liblime developer blogs often goes uncontactable from here 15:46 slef sometimes it duplicates or resyncs, but usually that's if some server has a problem 15:46 slef it's mostly (all?) koha-specifc feeds people have asked 15:44 nengard if it's just koha stuff i can pull it in and remove duplicates - no prob 15:44 nengard slef how is the planet set up? does it pull all posts from koha blogs? or just posts about koha? I have set up the pipe to only pull koha tagged posts 15:42 nengard but doesn't that have duplicates? 15:42 nengard slef - no idea :) let me check and see if I included it 15:41 slef hi nengard - why doesn't kohails monitor the planet feed? 15:26 gmcharlt cau0730: a global due date? that exists in 3 15:25 cau0730 i have added a global return date if 3 doesn't have one i can submit patches 15:24 Snow_Fox Is there a record of claims that a patron has on the patron information page or would that be displayed in the reading history of the patron 15:24 cau0730 well except for one librarian that can just shove it 15:23 cau0730 and they are happy about it 15:23 cau0730 it is okay :) i got what they want accomplished :) 15:23 owen I think the current stuff is based on sco stuff developed for NPL around the time of dev_week, but I could be wrong. If so, it didn't make it into an official repo 15:22 owen I don't see any sco stuff in 2.2 or dev_week 15:21 cau0730 later 15:21 cau0730 of course that is due to the last programmer 15:21 |Lupin| see you later all, bye ! 15:21 cau0730 they would probably say it wasn't good any way..... the scrutinize and put down koha all the time 15:20 cau0730 first thing i did when i started was install a new install of 2.2 and played around with it 15:20 atz look for -file "sco*" 15:20 cau0730 i would have found it 15:19 cau0730 yeah i didn't think it was :) 15:19 atz cau0730: not sure... 2.2 is ancient 15:19 Snow_Fox http://evanlenz.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/logo.png 15:19 Snow_Fox eh good enough 15:18 Snow_Fox are you a grand piano or more of a smaller keyboard kind 15:17 Snow_Fox im gonna have to make a image of that someday 15:17 pianohacker pianoninja 15:17 Snow_Fox i didnt notice you leave 15:17 cau0730 so web selfcheck is in 2.2? 15:17 Snow_Fox piano when did you step out 15:15 cau0730 i don't know about web selfcheck 15:15 atz simple stuff 15:14 atz cau0730: yeah... designed to allow you to login and do transactions... 15:14 owen How are the items I'm checking out *today* any less private than the ones I checked out yesterday? 15:14 Snow_Fox like does a claim show up in a ptron record 15:14 Snow_Fox ok and does anyone know how claims are handled in Koha? 15:13 cau0730 web selfcheck? 15:13 Snow_Fox well first we get a youtube of richard simons 15:13 owen We need a new preference to let people check books out to people but then erase their memory immediately afterwards. 15:13 cau0730 only what they are currently issuing to the student 15:13 atz cau0730: i would just have the patrons check themselves out using web selfcheck 15:13 cau0730 the thought is they shouldn't see any current issues 15:12 atz (yet*) 15:12 atz Snow_Fox: that wouldn't affect down to that level (yes) 15:12 owen if the kids are circulating books, aren't they already seeing what people are checking out? 15:12 Snow_Fox shouldnt you be able to control that using granular permissions on a specific login? 15:12 cau0730 yep... i have had to go to great links to accomadate that 15:11 atz so they have a much lower threshold of what "staff" or "operators" should be able to see 15:11 cau0730 that is right 15:11 atz owen: kids run the circ desk 15:11 owen cau0730: Can you elaborate? That doesn't make the issue any more clear to me 15:10 owen Snow_Fox: There's an open bug suggesting that the table on the checkout screen be changed to match the table on the patron detail screen (moremember.pl) 15:10 cau0730 problem is that they let kids circulate books 15:08 atz i don't get privacy concerns over that 15:08 atz if you don't want to see your account... *don't log in* 15:07 Snow_Fox cau0730: privacy concerns? 15:07 Snow_Fox i see 15:07 owen And yes, some folks object to it. And some folks like it. 15:07 owen Snow_Fox: The renew box should automatically be checked if the item is overdue 15:06 cau0730 lol i had to remove the renewal from ours... "privacy concerns" lol 15:06 |Lupin| how would you guys define en extended patron attribute intended to contain a date ? 15:05 |Lupin| just one other thing please 15:05 Snow_Fox hmm i notice that in a patrons checked out item on the check and on the details page it is set so that newnew boxes are autmatically checked if the renew is availiable is there a way to default that to off? 15:05 |Lupin| indeed... 15:05 cau0730 true... our librarians want them short but not everyone would want them short 15:04 gmcharlt it's a balancing act 15:04 gmcharlt cau0730: heh, but branchcodes are also case where librarians often want more descriptive codes, and 4 can be too short for that 15:03 |Lupin| gmcharlt, atz: ok... just too bad... :) 15:03 gmcharlt Snow_Fox: it's not hard to change list of indexes 15:03 cau0730 4 is acceptable for branchcodes... that gives you 26*26*26*26 = 456976 combinations with just ASCII A-Z 15:03 Snow_Fox ours is one big mess of checkboxs of limiters 15:03 Snow_Fox example public has the ability to search by copyright date 15:02 Snow_Fox i notice that the search categorys are fairly different 15:02 Snow_Fox well im looking at the public demo and our demo for the OPAC 15:02 atz Snow_Fox: "change" in what way? 15:02 Snow_Fox how hard is it to change the search templates for the Opac? 15:02 atz see above 15:01 |Lupin| perhaps the real quesiton is: what's the point in limiting ? why not using text and let the user do what she wants ? 15:01 gmcharlt there's also a DB reason behind it - since borrower_attribute_types.code is a PK, for joins it shouldn't be too long 15:01 atz meh, you have to stop somewhere 15:01 |Lupin| gmcharlt: yep I know that the branchcodes are 10, too. actually I'd make them bigger, too :-) 15:00 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I'd like to be able to wirte something like disabilityproff_reception_day as the code, because to me it's like an identifier in a program... 14:59 gmcharlt 10 is an arbitrary width, but is consistent with other codes 14:59 |Lupin| gmcharlt: yeah, I know... but still... 14:59 gmcharlt |Lupin|: they're meant to be short codes; full descriptoin would go inthe description field 14:58 |Lupin| would it be possible to make them a bit larger ? 14:58 |Lupin| I'm curious why fields sch as borrower_attribute_types are limited to 10 characters. 14:58 nahuel doing it :) 14:58 gmcharlt ok, please do 14:57 nahuel gmcharlt, ok, perhaps I can e-mail you about it and explain what "problems" we had, and how we decided to fix them 14:57 pianohacker bbl, have to switch networks 14:56 gmcharlt nahuel: I can stick it on a branch, but I'd really like to see an example of what's motivating it 14:56 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3370 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, email@example.com, ASSIGNED, Add the support of a Get Method on biblio records 14:56 nahuel pianohacker, hey :) 14:56 nahuel gmcharlt, just a question : did you planned to push my bug #3370's patch ? 14:55 gmcharlt hi nahuel 14:55 pianohacker Hello, all 14:55 nahuel gmcharlt, hi 14:54 Snow_Fox morning Piano 14:54 cau0730 hi pianohacker 14:53 |Lupin| hi pianohacker 14:53 ricardo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mozilla 14:52 ricardo The Book of Mozilla 14:51 cau0730 huh? 14:51 slef cau0730: gizza bob? 14:50 cau0730 i speak english fluently and my vocabulary isn't that rich lol 14:50 atz yeah, it's archaic 14:49 |Lupin| but my vocabulary is not very rich... 14:49 |Lupin| slef: hard to grasp for a non native english speaker IMO 14:49 |Lupin| slef: thanks 14:47 |Lupin| slef: if you don't mind, that'd be cool yeah 14:46 slef textually funny... want me to msg it? 14:46 |Lupin| hi owen 14:46 |Lupin| slef: is it textually funny or graphically funny ? 14:43 slef |Lupin|: it's funny 14:43 |Lupin| slef: why ? 14:39 slef newbies, visit about:mozilla in your firefox or similar browser 14:38 ricardo (BRB) 14:38 ricardo I think what I'm trying to do is to avoid "DLL Hell..." Oops, sorry... I meant "SQL Hell" ;-) 14:37 ricardo slef: OK, no problem. Thanks for the tip 14:37 slef I think they were on koha-devel or koha-translate, but I don't even remember when 14:36 ricardo slef: Yeah, I guessed as much ("fun discussions"). But I haven't found them :) At least, not in the mailing list(s), but I haven't found them... or do you mean, here on IRC? Or both? 14:36 gmcharlt to confirm 14:36 gmcharlt slef: checking locale for default language selection is a good idea, though it should still ask 14:36 slef to see which locales are installed, look in /etc/locale.gen (on debian anyway) 14:35 slef to see your $LANG, the command is "locale" 14:35 slef ideas including just detecting the installing user $LANG and which locales are installed on the server have been mooted I think 14:35 slef there have been some fun discussions about this 14:35 ricardo gmcharlt: Right! 14:34 gmcharlt ricardo: yeah, I can agree with that, but then have to make sure that Makefile.PL asks 14:34 ricardo gmcharlt: Right. I'm talking about the tarballs. Obviosuly, *extracting* the tarball will extract every language file, but *installing* shouldn't install them, unless required by the user (IMHO, that is) 14:33 gmcharlt cau0730: http://translate.koha.org/ is an example of a Pootle installation 14:33 gmcharlt ricardo: it doesn't do that by default, although it might in the tarballs 14:32 cau0730 ah 14:32 ricardo cau0730: http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle/index?redirect=1 14:31 ricardo cau0730: Pootle is more like a web interface to do translations 14:31 ricardo gmcharlt: Hmmm... Good. But that would bring me to another change suggestion (that has probably been suggested in the past, by others): Let "Makefile.PL" / "make test" / "make install" NOT install every language install (that *really* takes a long time to run, in my setups) 14:31 cau0730 Pootle is a translator??? 14:30 ricardo Maybe standard MARC fields + translation of labels + local library overrides (to the translation of labels) + local library fields (that would have to be translated on a case-by-case basis, obviously, because they are, by definition "custom") 14:29 gmcharlt as far as mechanics of translation, it would be simple to extract the labels into a .po file to feed into Pootle 14:28 ricardo gmcharlt: *nod* 14:27 gmcharlt standard MARC fields + local library fields + translation of labels 14:27 gmcharlt ricardo: there should be more of a hierarchical structure to the frameworks 14:26 cau0730 :) 14:25 ricardo OK. Back to Koha... Any thoughts for the friendly "discussion" that Zeno and I are having in the Koha and now Koha-Devel mailing list? (see Zeno last message "Translation of SQL files") 14:23 ricardo cau0730: Sure 14:23 cau0730 but then you run into issues like i am in :) 14:22 cau0730 that is why we are trying to customize all the software we use for our staff and students 14:22 ricardo cau0730: Right. The "devil is in the details"... "Integration" is great for many things, in theory, but difficult (or impossible) to implement, in practice, for many setups 14:20 cau0730 it is a nice piece of material to track though when you write an application that will talk to other apps or that could 14:20 ricardo :) 14:20 gmcharlt ricardo: understood :) 14:19 ricardo gmcharlt: I'm NOT saying that you're defending its use as an authentication mechanism. I know you're not! :) 14:19 cau0730 of course that was 6 years ago 14:19 cau0730 i remember when i was in college the ssn is what they used for identification 14:19 ricardo gmcharlt: Yes, and that ("using it as an authentication mechanism") is plain dumb. The SSN is not "a secret" 14:18 gmcharlt making it all too easy to commit "identity theft" sorts of fraud 14:18 cau0730 oh and here is the funny part... these librarians are mad that we can only do our best when getting this information. they think "it is almost 2010 and you mean you can't automate this"... problem is we can if we are given a chance but now they want to bring on a new application for HR so now they want us to "hook up to it" instead of them using a custom database 14:18 gmcharlt among other problems, the US SSN in practice has not just been used as an identifier, but as an authentication mechanism 14:18 ricardo gmcharlt: Right, that's what I thought 14:18 gmcharlt ricardo: tremendous debate 14:17 ricardo gmcharlt: Actually, here in Portugal we have a National Identity Card for several decades (and each person has a number in that card). I think there's a great debate about introducing it (or not) in the UK and in the US, right? 14:17 gmcharlt atz: well, since libraries have almost no call to run credit reports on their patrons, I'm dubious about them storing SSN + address + other identifying data 14:16 atz greets ricardo 14:16 atz *in 14:16 atz held is some crazy inaccessible IBM database 14:16 atz gmcharlt: actually in my experience there IS the need to track SSN, until you can map it to the state's *other* unique ID based on SSN.... 14:16 cau0730 btw: I am in SK, Canada. that is part of the problem. Originally from Ohio/PA though 14:15 cau0730 actually we weren't allowed to track lots at first do to problems of privacy... my boss has fought that with the gov't so he could hire a team to work on the SIS 14:15 ricardo It's atz! The Americans are waking up at the same time. Hi Joe! :) 14:15 gmcharlt cau0730: surely there's no need to track SSN? 14:14 cau0730 yeah i don't have that :) prior to my team they didn't think about tracking SSN or birthday 14:14 atz cau0730: sounds like fun. i've had to do the same kind of thing before. usually some kind of field like birthday helps find matches 14:13 cau0730 fore instance we have 3 dbs for students all with their own naming convention. all that we have to compare on is if we have a first name and a last name. so if we have two John doe's which one is the correct one 14:13 ricardo cau0730: Right, it's much better to use *several* unique identifiers, eheh... (actually, I'm just "half joking" here - it's pretty usual to see a table that has some autonumber/sequence ID *and* some kind of unique "official" number like SSN - Social Security Number) 14:11 cau0730 i love the my *old* teamates. no unique identifiers for any thing lol they had no clue how to design a db 14:11 ricardo gmcharlt: You're welcome :) 14:10 gmcharlt ricardo: thanks 14:10 ricardo gmcharlt: I still have to reply to your "transition or continuity" email (I'm having *very busy* weeks). But, my thoughts are, in brief: "Congratulations to you and Equinox / Evergreen (they are very lucky for being able to count you in). All the best for your new work/position. Very bad news for LibLime and Koha... " 14:09 slef ohhh, lovely - npogroups lets you resend an email from the archives 14:06 slef ricardo: shhhhh, or everyone will want one. 14:06 ricardo slef: Right 14:06 ricardo gmcharlt: It's Galen. He's alive! ;-) 14:06 slef ricardo: I was thinking train, but that's no cheaper ;-) 14:05 gmcharlt alcohol-powered airplane? 14:05 cau0730 how about the "vodka" budget :) 14:05 ricardo |Lupin|: Cool :) 14:04 ricardo slef: Do you mean to FLY over here? Hmm... I think that's a bit over my "beer budgeting", eheh 14:04 |Lupin| ricardo: sure ! 14:04 ricardo |Lupin|: "sp = spelling". Meaning: Did I spell Sébastien correctly? 14:04 slef ricardo: can I get travel expenses? ;-) 14:03 ricardo slef: And I'll gladfully pay :) 14:03 |Lupin| ricardo: sp ? 14:03 slef ricardo: careful. I may collect ;-) 14:03 ricardo |Lupin|: Hi Sébastien! :) (sp?) 14:03 ricardo slef: Oh, I don't use Zebra 14:02 slef but I think they're generally easier to rebuild from the SQL if needed 14:02 ricardo slef: Cool, many thanks! :) There's a beer waiting for you, here in Portugal ;-) 14:02 slef the other thing is to make sure your zebra databases are kept apart 14:02 |Lupin| hi ricardo 14:02 slef yes, right 14:02 slef just install no koha-conf.xml to /etc and no C4 to /usr/*/share and you shouldn't get any embarassing version confusions 14:02 ricardo slef: Right... Both in "Virtual Hosts" in Apache *and* for "command line tools", like "bulkmarcimport.pl"... Right? 14:01 slef yes, each Koha will have its own PERL5LIB and KOHA_CONF 14:01 ricardo slef: Great. Thanks for the tip... I guess that I'll have to update the PERL5LIB environment variable before I run, say, "bulkmarcimport.pl" from one of the "Kohas" installed 14:01 slef earlier versions of Koha that is 14:01 slef earlier versions will run on later versions of the CPAN things as far as I know 14:00 slef the other thing that may go wrong is if any of the versions require different third-party versions, but I don't think we have that problem within 3.x 14:00 slef yes, just make sure none of them are on the PERL5LIB path 13:59 ricardo slef: Space is NOT an issue :) But problems that arise because there are several Koha versions installed *is* an Issue. That's why I'm trying to figure out if there's a SAFE way to do that. 13:58 slef also upgrades become more work 13:58 slef ricardo: ok. The safe way is to unpack tar.gz files then, but it takes more space. 13:58 ricardo slef: OK, thanks for the information. I understand what you're saying by "learn by making mistakes", but I really can't do that for this setup. Thanks anyway 13:57 cau0730 now i am just playing catchup with a system that is inferior to 3 13:57 slef ricardo: oh, yeah, never use --shared on a copy you're going to be developing in. I'm 99% sure it's fine for hosting multiple versions from, though. 13:56 cau0730 i wish i was here from the start... i would have had a lot of patches for you all 13:56 ricardo slef: OK 13:55 slef ricardo: actually, I'd not seen that. Will go reread it. 13:55 cau0730 lol i don't blame them :) 3 looks wayyyyyyy better 13:55 slef ricardo: learn by making mistakes! 13:55 slef we tried to get a 2.2.10 together, but no-one seemed willing to pay 13:55 ricardo slef: So, you mean the one that has this text on the man page: "NOTE: this is a possibly dangerous operation; do not use it unless you understand what it does." Right? ;-) 13:55 slef oh yeah, 2.2 is probably no more 13:54 cau0730 on 2.2? i thought it was no more 13:54 slef cau0730: that'll be fun when we do a security release :-/ 13:54 ricardo slef: OK, thanks 13:54 slef ricardo: I think --shared 13:53 ricardo slef: I'm only finding three options regarding links in the man page for git-clone (--shared/-s, --no-hardlinks and --reference <repository>). Which one(s) should I be reading? 13:53 cau0730 never upgrading. that is not my decision but the division of the board 13:52 slef it's open, it'll probably be fine, just be prepared when you upgrade 13:52 cau0730 our librarians don't add borrowers. it is all done electronic 13:51 slef and I think LDAP is the main API at the moment 13:51 slef cau0730: OK, but you'll have to track Koha Members/Borrowers development more closely if you don't connect through an API 13:51 cau0730 so when a student is created there then they are created an account in Koha 13:51 cau0730 the SIS can connect to the Koha DB 13:50 cau0730 slef: it can but that is not the way we are going for students. they don't need to be in an ldap 13:50 slef ) 13:50 slef just be prepared ;- 13:50 slef ricardo: learn by making mistakes! 13:49 ricardo slef: OK, thank you very much for the pointers/information! :) I consider myself just one step above "git newbie", but I'll try to check that out 13:49 slef cau0730: if SIS speaks LDAP, you're almost there. 13:49 slef (the different databases on the same computer thing you linked) 13:49 slef then generally behave as for virtual hosting 13:49 slef and then you put one git clone on one version, then checkout the other version in other other git clone 13:48 cau0730 i still have my leader problem, but have decided that i have to get some actual work done so i have moved onto integration to our SIS(Student Information System) :) 13:48 owen magnusenger: it just arrived 13:48 slef look at git clone man page and the options for using links instead of copies 13:48 magnusenger owen: sorry, i can see it now... 13:48 ricardo slef: Eheh, OK 13:47 slef no, I have git trickery 13:47 ricardo slef: Right, that's what I'm afraid of, thanks :( How do you do it? Do you have ONE machine / virtual machine for each Koha version installed? 13:46 cau0730 morning all 13:46 magnusenger owen: cant see no newlogbot, can you?