Time Nick Message 10:30 chris :) 10:30 chris etc etc 10:30 chris sorry dave i cant do that 10:29 chris ill be back 10:28 Elwell_ thd: take the humans out the loop? how about a nice game of chess? 10:00 thd Eliminate PEBKAC. Only machines should be allowed to do data entry. 09:51 thd yes, I see it warrants a Wikipedia article 09:51 chris problem exists between keyboard and chair 09:51 hdl_laptop problem is between keybord and computer 09:49 thd pebkac? 09:49 chris pebkac :) 09:44 thd User error. 09:44 thd No I read it right 09:43 thd chris: It was a sort order problem 09:43 thd chris: I totally misread the report 09:32 thd I assumed I was on to something when I found no column for modified date. 09:32 chris not when editing a borrower 09:31 chris it certainly isnt setting it to be the last modified date, thats for sure 09:31 thd 99% of all bugs are user error. 09:31 thd atz made another suggestion about a possible user procedure issue. 09:29 chris yep, but whatever is in the form is passed to it 09:29 thd It is certainly called by ModMember for date format wrangling 09:28 chris that seems to be the behaviour i am seeing 09:27 chris if they change the date, it certainly changes 09:27 thd maybe the report I had been answering is because of user error in modifying a patron record 09:26 thd no apparently not 09:21 chris jeez dont you americans ever sleep? :-) 09:21 atz possibly if you move the record from deletedborrowers 09:21 chris seems to set it to whatever is in the form for me 09:20 chris unless i delete the value in the registration date in the form 09:20 chris doesnt change it for me 09:16 chris in ModMember 09:13 chris C4::Members is the only place where it is changed 09:11 thd If you update a patron record, borrowers.dateenrolled changes. 09:11 thd I have not looked to find where the code is doing that yet but the evidence is very good 09:10 chris where is it doing that? 09:10 thd There is no borrowers.datemodified 09:10 chris we are? we shouldn't be 09:09 thd ? 09:09 thd Why are we updating borrowers.dateenrolled as if it is borrowers.datemodified 09:09 chris yep i am 09:09 hdl_laptop I am 09:08 thd hdl_laptop: you must be awake 09:08 thd chris: are you still awake? 08:11 mason ok, me off... 08:04 chris deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/chromium-daily/ppa/ubuntu intrepid main 08:03 chris yep 08:03 mason on deb/ubuntu ? 08:03 chris even faster with chromium 08:03 chris *nod* 08:01 mason i have to say the save/validate speed of addbiblio.pl is very fast on my 2ghz lappy 08:00 mason i was trying to use its JS profiler on the addbiblio..tmpl jscript 07:59 chris yeah, nice and fast 07:59 mason i just downloaded FF 3.5 last nite, looks good 07:58 chris awesome 07:57 mason heya hdl 07:57 mason yeah 07:57 hdl_laptop hi mason 07:57 mason getting there... i have a bunch of useful stuff to commit back, when i get this finished 07:57 chris go live is getting close eh 07:57 chris ahhh 07:56 mason naw, werking late - on nightly fines stuff 07:55 chris you staying up there? 07:55 chris hows it going mason? 07:37 eiro hello world 07:35 hdl_laptop hi chris 07:33 chris morning europe 03:53 Amit heya brendan 03:53 brendan hello amit 03:31 Amit good morning #koha 03:31 Amit hi chris, brendan 03:02 chris yeah, doing it against the one we already have seems more sensible 03:02 atz really crappy implementation for spellcheck though... need a whole separate DB? wtf? 03:02 chris yeah :( 03:01 atz wow, almost all features that are not working now. 03:01 chris http://lists.koha.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2006-December/006415.html 03:00 chris http://liblime.com/products/koha/koha-classic/koha-classic-enhancement-features 03:00 chris ahh its left over from 2.2.x 02:58 chris yep 02:57 atz i think zebra effectively destoyed the rationale for such a cumbersome feature 02:56 chris ahh probably something left over from the dev_week branch 02:54 atz i think the original is kados code 02:54 atz totally unsupported by the installer, afaict 02:54 chris sounds like it should die to me 02:53 atz (2) log the query 02:53 atz (1) get spelling suggestions 02:53 chris ahh 02:53 atz it tries to do 2 insanely unrelated things on a totally different db_host:database:user:password: 02:50 chris what does kohapsuggest do? 02:43 atz gmcharlt: is kohaspsuggest dead? 00:08 ricardo Sleep time. Take care! 22:36 ricardo I'm resuming work in a Virtual Machine running openSUSE 11.0, git and Koha 3.0.x / MASTER branch and 2 databases (one for Koha 3.0.X and the other for MASTER)... The setup is still a bit "mixed up" :( 22:35 chris hiya ricardo :) 22:35 pianohacker Off to meeting, bye all 22:34 ricardo Hi chris ! :) 22:34 ricardo Back (kinda...) 22:32 chris :) 22:32 brendan think I'm all good :) 22:30 brendan just following through kylehall's page now - maybe I'm answering my own questions 22:29 brendan is there somewhere to go for vmware images of koha, besides the extension manager? 22:24 chris heh lucky 22:24 brendan Sonja just made cookies ! -- happy /me 22:24 pianohacker hey brendan 22:24 chris hey there brendan 22:24 brendan pianohacker - howdy 22:24 brendan heya chris 22:22 pianohacker Yup, Hawaii State Archives 22:22 chris oh we have a koha library in hawaii, cool 22:18 chris http://catalystcoffee.com/ <-- my friend was here, using their wifi yesterday 22:17 chris but ill read back on the transcript 22:17 chris 9am meeting, meant i had to catch the early bus and miss the irc meeting :( 22:17 chris meetings about keywords for a cuisine website 22:16 pianohacker Hey chris. What have you been up to? 22:15 chris cool 22:15 Jo Danny working through them now 22:15 Jo yay - thanks Chris. 22:13 chris off it goes, stats should be in your mailbox soon 22:08 chris 2 secs 22:08 chris hey jo, ack forgot to email you 22:08 Jo Moirning Chris 21:57 chris back 21:40 IrmaCalyx good morning/goog night/good bye all...off to 1st appointment of the day. Thanks for the meeting:-) 21:32 slef do *not* get me started on koha date handling :) 21:32 wizzyrea gmcharlt: *giggle* 21:31 wizzyrea (aside: the last seen columns aren't consistent, they show different things) 21:31 slef we had much fun with people not setting server timezones in 2.0 21:31 gmcharlt I get it now 21:31 wizzyrea :) 21:31 wizzyrea ty 21:31 slef I'd bet that 21:31 wizzyrea you can look at checkout history 21:31 slef server time 21:31 wizzyrea in the item records 21:31 wizzyrea in koha 21:31 wizzyrea ok, lol 21:30 gmcharlt wizzyrea: well, @seen is relatively, it appears 21:30 wizzyrea you know, where there is a list of "last seen" 21:30 wizzyrea (well I meant in koha, sillies) 21:30 wizzyrea (someone asked, I wanted to give a definitive answer, I assumed server time) 21:29 slef oh no, not the time stamp on the client! 21:29 munin gmcharlt: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 39 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> not the time stamp on the client 21:29 gmcharlt @seen wizzyrea 21:29 munin gmcharlt: (last [--{from,in,on,with,without,regexp} <value>] [--nolimit]) -- Returns the last message matching the given criteria. --from requires a nick from whom the message came; --in requires a channel the message was sent to; --on requires a network the message was sent on; --with requires some string that had to be in the message; --regexp requires a regular expression the message (1 more message) 21:29 gmcharlt @last wizzyrea 21:28 wizzyrea not the time stamp on the client 21:28 wizzyrea last seen times = time stamp on the server, right? 21:25 |Lupin| see you later all, time to go sleeping here. bye ! 21:23 davi h* 21:23 davi As proposal of convention rules: hGNU coding standards, ttp://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/ 21:21 davi Expand it if needed. It just try to be a note to start the discussion 21:21 davi http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:codingguidelines#command-line_argument_conventions 21:21 davi Initial draft about comand-line conventions added 21:15 slef "Nefarious webmasters are likely to swap out the image for something you don’t want to see!" 21:13 wizzyrea he probably figured he'd answered it twice, might as well post it :) 21:13 wizzyrea schuster: pff, not stupid. We actually went over kind of the same thing a while back while I was doing jquery/css in the staff client 21:12 wizzyrea http://www.myacpl.org/koha/?p=237 21:12 pianohacker wizzyrea: url? 21:10 schuster wizzyrea - prompted by my stupidity! 21:06 |Lupin| slef: ok 21:06 slef |Lupin|: I'm just north of Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, England 21:05 |Lupin| slef: where are you from again ? 21:05 wizzyrea drat, he's gone 21:04 wizzyrea owen: brilliant blog post 21:04 gmcharlt pianohacker: yes, it has a ChanServer module 21:04 slef neighbouring town but faces the sunset 21:04 |Lupin| whether has been terribly hot in Paris these dys... Ppl can hardly sleep 21:04 slef http://www.burnham-on-sea.com/webcam/ 21:04 Brooke okay for serious, time for me to cook dinner before Ulduar 21:03 pianohacker gmcharlt: Does munin have a chanserv-like mode? 21:03 Brooke see ya brendan 21:03 brendan enjoy the evening! 21:03 slef bye bye brendan 21:02 brendan so long #koha folks 21:00 gmcharlt |Lupin|: not particularly, we just don't consistenly have op 20:59 |Lupin| btw, is it onpurpose that the chan doens't have a topic ? 20:57 ricardo (out!) 20:57 ricardo You're welcome :) 20:57 wizzyrea hee ty 20:57 ricardo ;-) 20:57 ricardo wizzyrea++ 20:57 ricardo Speaking of which... It's (late) dinner time (late because this meeting started at 8PM for me, eheh. Take care everyone! 20:57 wizzyrea the only thing that would make it better would be a pool + beer 20:57 wizzyrea :) 20:56 ricardo wizzyrea: LOL! 20:56 wizzyrea gah, still an hour to go 20:56 wizzyrea oh man, beer. 20:56 ricardo Brooke: Can't you send me a "Miller" from there to Portugal? ;-) 20:55 Brooke feel free to send me boring Librarian queries, for now, it's Miller time! 20:55 ricardo :) 20:55 gmcharlt thanks 20:55 |Lupin| :) 20:55 ricardo gmcharlt++ 20:55 ricardo |Lupin|++ 20:55 |Lupin| gmcharlt: thanks a lot for havin run this meeting and having done it so well, it was great 20:54 gmcharlt the link is http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes09aug05 , btw 20:54 |Lupin| anyway 20:54 gmcharlt ricardo++ 20:54 ricardo (just kidding, eheh...) 20:53 ricardo gmcharlt: You are really good at that "de-le-ga-ting" thing, you know? ;-) 20:53 gmcharlt ricardo: started wiki page for next meeting - feel free to add agenda items 20:51 ricardo cait: Thanks for the additional tip! :) 20:50 |Lupin| didn't you want to change the time for each meeting ? 20:50 ricardo gmcharlt: Sure. For me (in Portugal) that hour is great (it would be 11AM here). 20:49 gmcharlt we can try the time used for the 3 June meeting - 10:00 UTC+0 20:49 |Lupin| any idea aboutthe time ? 20:49 cait add translation for xslt files 20:48 ricardo (Maybe there's already a RFC for that, don't know... I must search for it) 20:47 ricardo gmcharlt: OK... Is there some agenda for that meeting? One topic that I think will *need* to be addressed / discussed is the translation ... hmmm.. framework (for the SQL, JS files) to remove redundancies and inconsistencies... But it sounds to be a job for a big rewrite in some parts :( 20:47 gmcharlt thanks, everybody 20:47 Brooke cool 20:46 gmcharlt I'm calling the next general IRC meeting for first Wednesday of August, i.e., 5 August 20:46 tajoli Probably it could read FK in MYISAM 20:46 gmcharlt we're at 1.75 hours, so I'm calling the meeting closed 20:46 tajoli In MyISAM the FK are not working but you can set them 20:46 ricardo tajoli: OK. I wasn't sure about that. Thanks. That is a problem then, as you say 20:45 tajoli Now Koha has only InnoDB tables. 20:45 gmcharlt ok, thanks tajoli 20:45 tajoli We plan to have a beta version with more comment on 10 July 20:45 ricardo tajoli: Hmmm... And does it do that for both MyISAM and InnoDB tables? 20:45 cait hdl: hi :) 20:44 tajoli So in fact it has a problem: the name of colums. For example the name 'id' is use in different table as PK but the tables are not reletad between them 20:44 hdl_laptop hi cait. 20:43 cait tajoli: looks great 20:42 ricardo tajoli: Nice 20:42 tajoli For relations (the most imporant think) it use FK, indexes, PK and columns with the same name 20:42 gmcharlt heh 20:42 ricardo ebegin: I was expecting that ;-) 20:42 ebegin ricardo++ 20:42 ebegin ricardo-- ;) 20:42 ricardo slef: Thanks! :) 20:41 munin slef: Karma for "ricardo" has been increased 4 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 4. 20:41 slef @karma ricardo 20:41 ricardo (How does one ask the "munin" bot about karma? :) 20:41 tajoli To use SchemaSpy you need a Mysql with Koha installed 20:41 ricardo tajoli++ 20:41 gmcharlt tajoli++ 20:40 tajoli I have update the wiki page of DB schema http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:dbschema 20:40 tajoli A first version is here: http://www.koha.it/local--files/mysql-dev/schemaKoha.tar.gz 20:39 slef gmcharlt: aw, I wanted to sleep :) 20:39 tajoli Yes, but after installation 20:39 hdl_laptop You should then insert them into kohastructure. 20:39 tajoli and on columns 20:38 tajoli And we insert comment on table level 20:38 ricardo tajoli: Interesting. I didn't know that one :) 20:38 hdl_laptop tajoli++ it is quite good. 20:38 tajoli http://schemaspy.sourceforge.net/ 20:38 tajoli SchemaSpy software 20:37 ricardo schuster++ 20:37 tajoli We use Schema 20:37 gmcharlt tajoli: cool - go ahead 20:37 schuster I would like to suggest to people to also add items to the RFC or at least an enhancement in bugs.koha.org especially if you are a programmer working on something. If you want to do it or remind the person paying you to do it either way... Helps others in the community. 20:37 tajoli I have new info about documentation of Koha DB level 20:36 schuster gmcharlt - ok since bugs are version ignorant makes sence. 20:36 davi As I do not use OpenID for any serious, I have not created an OpenID account, and I think I will never do, instead I use the same password elsewhere for those things, it is easier :) 20:36 gmcharlt OK, we're past 1.5 hours - unless somebody has another burning issue to raise, I suggest we dedicate the rest of the day to watching slef's and davi's OpenID debate 20:36 ricardo gmcharlt: Fine by me... At least for the really old versions 20:36 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: I have no objection to squashing version numbers. 20:35 gmcharlt schuster: no, not remove the bugs, just adjust the version number to shorten the drop-down for version numbers when entering new bugs 20:35 slef davi: ni samopinias :) 20:35 slef erm 20:35 slef davi: ni samopinas :) 20:35 schuster So you are proposing to remove those 2 items totally? 20:34 davi it is good for a wiki, because it do not requires security 20:34 slef davi: it's a wiki, not launch_nuke_by_LOC.pl 20:34 davi slef, I do not like openID, it is not secure by design! 20:34 ricardo hdl_laptop: OK. I only could test it in one environment, so feel free to test it in others, if you wish (in fact, I'll be GLAD if you do!) 20:34 gmcharlt schuster: squash the version numbers 20:33 slef sorry, I'm tired 20:33 hdl_laptop ricardo: please send. 20:33 ricardo slef: LOL! 20:33 slef davi: it supports openID 20:33 schuster Are you proposing to "flag" all < 2.0 tickets as < 2.0 product or < 2. 0 component? 20:33 davi gmcharlt, I have register my account at the wiki. I will add such wiki section 20:32 thd I think that in the interests of time I will defer the issue I had wanted to bring up until later 20:32 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2599 major, P1, ---, henridamien@koha-fr.org, NEW, Search limits not working for NoZebra 20:32 ricardo hdl_laptop: Speaking of which, may I submit the small patch described by "Amer Denni" for Bug 2599 20:31 ricardo gmcharlt: OK, thanks 20:31 hdl_laptop slef: it is on 3.0.3 20:31 gmcharlt and merging together pre < 2.0 versions 20:30 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3307 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, jeanandre.santoni@biblibre.com, ASSIGNED, Unable to search the catalog on the intranet side 20:30 slef hdl_laptop: is bug 3307 solved? widespread? 20:30 gmcharlt ricardo: among other things, moving non-Koha software bug components to a separate component 20:30 gmcharlt schuster: telling 20:30 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: pls go ahed, and thd will be able to speak after 20:30 schuster Sorry gmcharlt don't know if you are asking or telling??? 20:29 ricardo gmcharlt: Hmmm? There is a "Product" field and a "Component" field in bugs.koha.org... What do you mean exactly? 20:28 gmcharlt while we're waiting, bugs.koha.org product and component is still pending 20:27 gmcharlt davi: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:codingguidelines 20:27 hdl_laptop Coding guidelines 20:26 davi gmcharlt, Where is located the "Development rules" wiki for the project? We should add there the "command-line argument convertion" subsection. -- http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php#developer_links 20:26 ricardo thd: Sorry for taking your "turn". Go right ahead! :) 20:26 ricardo :) 20:25 gmcharlt heh 20:25 ricardo ... and then I'd submit a patch (and you or hdl may ruthlessly reject it! ;-) 20:25 gmcharlt ricardo: sounds good 20:24 ricardo (for the "--help" switch, I mean) 20:24 ricardo gmcharlt: I may try adding those instructions, *if* they are equal (or very similar) to rebuild_zebra.pl 20:23 ricardo gmcharlt: right 20:23 gmcharlt ricardo: yeah, adding --help to jobs that don't have it shouldn't break crontabs 20:23 gmcharlt davi: good idea 20:23 ricardo gmcharlt: The problem is... Some people may have already created scripts (for crontab jobs, like you said) already relying on "rebuild_nozebra.pl" running right away :-S For "--help" I think we should add "usage" instructions (I don't think that breaks any thing) 20:22 davi gmcharlt, What about create a wiki page for describe the command-line argument convention? 20:22 schuster gmcharlt++ 20:21 schuster Wizzyrea - link to manual on editing news - maybe link to welcome page on Wiki? or am I on the wrong page? 20:21 davi gmcharlt++ 20:21 gmcharlt ricardo: fair point - we should decide on a conventation for command-line argument processing and stick to it 20:20 ricardo "rebuild_nozebra.pl" runs right away. Is that normal? 20:20 ricardo "rebuild_zebra.pl" returns "Must specify -b or -a to reindex bibs or authorities" 20:20 ricardo but... 20:20 ricardo (that seems easier to fix) 20:20 ricardo /rebuild_zebra.pl --help returns "Unknown option" 20:19 wizzyrea thinking if you're going to put important stuff in there you probably want to at least make sure people will see it by default. 20:19 ricardo /rebuild_zebra.pl --help gives usage 20:19 ricardo But I'm annoyed that: 20:19 ricardo This would break some compatibility... 20:19 ricardo thd: LOL! Thanks :) 20:19 thd I am patient 20:19 thd no please go ahead ricardo 20:18 ricardo (actually I have a "quip" on a something related to bulkmarcimport: rebuild_(no)zebra.pl but I'll wait for thd question) 20:18 gmcharlt thd: go ahead 20:18 thd gmcharlt: I would like to momentarily bring up an issue not on the agenda. 20:18 hdl_laptop delegation ? 20:17 Brooke hdl: de le gates? Is that French ;) 20:17 hdl_laptop hehe... 20:17 wizzyrea aside: do you think that the sample news items should be mandatory instead of optional? 20:17 ricardo gmcharlt: Darn... "They" are not joking when they say "Everything that you say, *can* and *will* be used against you!" ;-) 20:17 pianohacker "We love you, we really do! Now go work." 20:17 gmcharlt wizzyrea++ 20:17 gmcharlt ricardo++ 20:17 wizzyrea I'll look at the default news, sure 20:16 hdl_laptop a good boss is one who de le gates 20:16 gmcharlt ricardo: am I? ;) <ricardo> If it's just a matter of adding a print " message " to the code, I think that I might add it myself (not a Perl guru, by a long shot, but I'm "print" capable! ;-) 20:16 ricardo OK. I might give it a shot... and quit quickly if I find myself in trouble... But I'll say it, in that case :) 20:16 |Lupin| gmcharlt++ 20:16 ricardo gmcharlt: I think that you're hearing things... ;-) 20:15 joetho Even experts dealing with this every day could use a reminder to rebuild indexes. 20:15 gmcharlt ok, for the immediate term I think I hear ricardo volunteering to try a patch to add the message, and wizzyrea volunteering to update the default news 20:15 ricardo hdl_laptop: Interesting. Thanks! :) 20:15 hdl_laptop C4::Context->preference("NoZebraIndex") 20:15 |Lupin| such thtat "Did you rebuild your index" ? 20:14 |Lupin| if it is, why not add a question in the error message 20:14 ricardo pianohacker: But how do I access "NoZebra" syspref in a command line tool like "bulkmarcimport"? (Just asking... I really don't know) 20:14 |Lupin| ? 20:14 |Lupin| is it possible in KOha to detect that perhaps the indexes have not been built 20:14 gmcharlt ricardo: well, actually, the indexing job ought to be smart enough to figure out which indexing mode the DBs uses 20:14 schuster |Lupin|++ - make sure it is documented well on install instructions... Have your spouse install it - they will tell you where it doesn't work or it isn't documented well. 20:13 pianohacker ricardo: NoZebra syspref 20:13 |Lupin| oh maybe another idea 20:13 |Lupin| tajoli: sometimes ppl will remember to do it he first time, and then forget about it ? 20:13 ricardo Maybe add a option for NOT running rebuild ... and by default run rebuild? There's a problem though... We need an additional switch to define if using Zebra or NoZebra, right? 20:13 wizzyrea :) 20:13 wizzyrea I think there are probably several places it should be noted 20:13 tajoli Sorry, I mean 'only' 20:13 tajoli ly 20:13 tajoli We insert the instruction to use it during the INSTALL on 20:13 Brooke aww rats, I've been found out 20:12 ricardo |Lupin|++ 20:12 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I'm strongly in favour of the warning, because my feeling is that many people using koha do not know what they are doing, and this will be more and more true as koha becomes more and more popular 20:12 Brooke mmmmmm confirmation screen 20:12 wizzyrea maybe display and option to g... yea 20:12 tajoli I think could be an option to swith on the migration 20:11 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yes, there can be during data migrations 20:11 |Lupin| gmcharlt: may not be enough. If people forget it... 20:11 wizzyrea is there a reason NOT to do it? 20:11 gmcharlt ricardo: it's not always the case, but it often is 20:11 ricardo gmcharlt: Well... If you always need to do it, yes, I think that's a good idea. Is that always the case? 20:11 Brooke I <3 programmes doing logical things for me 20:11 gmcharlt wizzyrea++ # yes, default news makes sense 20:11 Brooke hooray 20:11 wizzyrea before importing anything 20:11 wizzyrea to look around 20:11 wizzyrea because how many people will OOH IT"S INSTALLED and log in right then 20:10 wizzyrea on a fresh install 20:10 gmcharlt so to toss about another suggestion, why not have an option for bulkmarcimport to automatically call the appropriate indexing job? 20:10 wizzyrea actually 20:10 wizzyrea well I was thinking of the default news items 20:10 schuster Sounds like a good link - FAQ - on the welcome page. 20:10 Brooke gm: you can lead a horse to water... 20:10 ricardo gmcharlt: Sure... But at least SOME will :) 20:10 |Lupin| and a switch to disable it, please 20:10 gmcharlt of course, there's no guarantee that everybody will actually *read* it 20:10 |Lupin| :) 20:09 ricardo If it's just a matter of adding a print " message " to the code, I think that I might add it myself (not a Perl guru, by a long shot, but I'm "print" capable! ;-) 20:09 gmcharlt I've no objections if somebody wants to do a patch adding such a message to bulkmarcimport, just as long as there's a way to make the script completely quiet for crontabs 20:09 |Lupin| wizzyrea: at least, and given that users almost never ead FAQs... 20:09 wizzyrea it's been answered many, many times here as well 20:08 wizzyrea yes, it's definitely FAQ worthy 20:08 slef thd: initial test should show if any koha JS libs interfere with these 20:08 |Lupin| actually I think I replied the question at least three time since I'm on the list, which is not too long... and I had to ask the same quesiton on the chan 20:08 pianohacker On that topic, does ZOOM/Zebra allow us to display error messages for an empty database or at least a failed connection? 20:08 ricardo sekjal: Yeah, probably. I just didn't run bulkauthimport yet, eheh 20:08 thd slef: I think that it is similar functionality which has concerned me or when browser shortcuts are disabled by JavaScript libraries. 20:07 sekjal agreed. for bulkauthimport.pl, too 20:07 ricardo |Lupin|: Right :) 20:07 |Lupin| slef: sure 20:07 |Lupin| if the bulkmarcmport would instruct the user about what to do 20:07 |Lupin| well I think it may save some time to both koha users and developers 20:07 slef |Lupin|: seriously? 20:07 ricardo gmcharlt: |Lupin| kindly remembered me to run rebuild_(no)zebra.pl and that solved the problem, naturally 20:07 |Lupin| braille is quite slow on IRC 20:06 |Lupin| sorry I'm late in following the conversation 20:06 slef thd: browsers should not be using accesskey combinations for shortcuts they already have. I don't know any that do. 20:06 ricardo gmcharlt: Well... The sa(i)d story is the one reported in Koha mailing list: I ran bulkmarcimport and did not get results for searches (and got strange error messages) 20:06 |Lupin| ah yes 20:06 |Lupin| thd: ok. 20:06 gmcharlt ah, go ahead ricardo 20:05 thd |Lupin| In a public access library terminal at the library users do not have much choice. 20:05 ricardo gmcharlt: I'm guilty of that one! ;-) 20:05 gmcharlt I think that one was also suggested by you, |Lupin| ? 20:05 gmcharlt last is Modification of bulkmarcimport so that it reminds the user to run rebuild_(no)zebra by default and hs a switch to disable this. 20:05 gmcharlt so I think we have some kind of resolution on that agenda item 20:04 |Lupin| thd: normally it's up to the user to configure how access-keys are really made available to him, AFAIK. 20:04 slef |Lupin|: although I remember doing it another way some said was better on some sites. 20:04 |Lupin| slef: ok, thanks. NOt a CSS expert. 20:04 thd slef: I worry about accesskeys or similar functionality breaking ordinary browser keyboard shortcuts. 20:04 slef display: none 20:03 davi because changing by tab out of the bbc pages ... 20:03 |Lupin| how can the link be made invisible by CSS-capable browsers ? 20:03 davi slef, So I would say such usability has a but ;) 20:03 |Lupin| just one thing 20:03 slef gmcharlt: troll ;) 20:03 davi the main one. 20:03 |Lupin| gmcharlt: okay 20:02 davi slef, on bbc, 1 works, but 2 change to another tab 20:02 gmcharlt |Lupin|: cool - polish it up and send it to koha-devel, and we'll have something concrete to argue about ;) 20:02 |Lupin| gmcharlt: removed it but not too hard to re-do 20:01 slef compare and contrast 20:01 |Lupin| gmcharlt: actually I had one almost ready 20:01 slef aha! http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/SiteInformation/DG_020463 20:01 |Lupin| gmcharlt: certainly 20:01 slef davi: cool. I'd not tried that. 1 should be home, 2 should be skip to main 20:01 gmcharlt |Lupin|: are you up to working on a sample patch, maybe with owen's help? 20:01 davi slef, shift-alt-0 works here with bbc 20:00 slef owen: my mobile phone is better - just press the number 20:00 slef owen: there is something ironic about having an accessibility feature stuck on a shift-alt key combo 20:00 owen Interesting, slef, I hadn't seen that before 20:00 slef gmcharlt: not that I've seen. jump to start if anything 19:59 slef so we should also add a page for that 19:59 slef in theory, shift-alt-0 should give you a list of access keys 19:59 thd owen: In your link to the Target lawsuit, you also identified a possibility for negative funding. 19:59 gmcharlt slef: yeah, doesn't surprise me that it's typical, but do screen readers try jumping to the end of the page if the anchor doesn't exist? 19:59 owen Let's duplicate header.inc temporarily for use with pages which use the new system 19:59 slef by the way, firefox users, it's Shift-Alt-accesskey to use accesskeys if you want to try it 19:59 owen :D 19:58 slef gmcharlt: sadly typical? ;-) 19:58 gmcharlt re using header.inc for that purpose, how much of an annoyance is having a skpnav that goes nowhere to users of assitive software? 19:58 owen gmcharlt: So we create a standard link target and add that target to each page 19:58 pianohacker I think |Lupin| has it correct, since the first li in the first ul... etc. is generated by header.inc 19:58 gmcharlt and one of the pages that |Lupin| suggested would be a good place to hash out the implementation issues 19:57 thd s/It/Accessibility in general/ 19:57 |Lupin| gmcharlt: yeah, header.inc might be the right place 19:57 slef gmcharlt++ 19:57 slef owen: IIRC that was a fun new year holiday ;-) 19:56 gmcharlt my main concern is making sure that the anchor is put in an include or the equivalent, so that we don't end up with 361 inconsistent skipnav links to fix in the future 19:56 thd owen: It may be an unfunded mandate which libraries tend to ignore but there are some legal requirements involved whether funded or not. 19:56 pianohacker We could make a guideline that completely new pages, or major rewrites, have a target for the "Skip to navigation" link 19:56 |Lupin| gmcharlt: perhaps the pages for adding patrons and records with a Z39.50 query ? 19:56 owen Yeah, I remember all the work you did on that 19:56 slef owen: this stuff is rather like the SQL security slog I did years ago and we didn't get paid fully for that. 19:56 gmcharlt owen: as far as doing this, as long as we can establish some guidelines, funding and/or patches will depend on people's real interest in this 19:55 ricardo gmcharlt: nod 19:55 wizzyrea well.. aren't we going to have to fiddle with every template for conversion to Template::Toolkit? 19:55 slef owen: seeking co-sponsors, plus best efforts otherwise ;) 19:55 gmcharlt |Lupin|: are there any specific pages where a skip-to-content link would be the most useful to you? that would be good for an experimental patch 19:55 slef I think 2 = main content is normal, but I can't tell 19:55 owen How is this going to get done? 19:55 owen I'm a little concerned about the "unfunded mandate" nature of this proposition 19:54 slef and follow some standard of accesskeys but I can't find the UK one just now 19:54 danielsweeney ls 19:53 gmcharlt pianohacker: yep 19:53 pianohacker As the target of the link, and not the link itself, is the part that is page specific 19:53 gmcharlt slef: the bbc.co.uk looks reasonable to me 19:52 |Lupin| ricardo: ok 19:52 pianohacker slef: I think that would be #toplevelmenu for most pages, which would probably work quite well 19:52 ricardo |Lupin|: Understood and appreciated... Maybe create the list if the topic becomes too ... err... "loud"? 19:51 gmcharlt pianohacker: yes 19:51 pianohacker gmcharlt: How do you mean styling? Just basic positioning? 19:51 |Lupin| just wanted to avoid annoying ppl not interested in the topic 19:51 slef gmcharlt: I'd look to copy www.bbc.co.uk on style: make "skip to content" the first link of a first ul of a first div. 19:51 |Lupin| i'm fine with using Koha-devel 19:51 gmcharlt and secondly, simply trying some experimental patches 19:51 jfk you sent an email to Miguel to meet us here on nine o'clock 19:50 ricardo |Lupin|: Not sure about that. Why not use Koha-devel? For instance, there's already a Koha-Zebra but it has few traffic :-S 19:50 jfk ohh, hdl_laptop, i'm Juan, 19:50 thd Providing alternative functionality for JavaScript only implementations is certainly a more important accessibility issue on the staff side but someone's work on one does not stop others work on the other. 19:50 slef |Lupin|: just put it in koha-devel with a11y in subject until it gets busy enough 19:50 |Lupin| how about creating a koha-a11y mailing-list where the interested persons could continue the discussion ? 19:50 gmcharlt first, styling of the skipnav links 19:50 slef trouble is, we have been moving further away... but ultimately that's because js-keen developers have had more funding than js-free ones and libraries have not been specifying js-free in their contracts. 19:49 Brooke *nod* and I think we can do a bit better 19:49 gmcharlt there are a couple things I think we can decide quickly 19:49 |Lupin| owen: I'm just asking for a staff client that works _a bit better_ than the current one 19:49 gmcharlt y 19:49 pianohacker jfk: sure 19:49 wizzyrea (i'm not saying it shouldn't be a goal, but we work with the technologies we have) 19:49 jfk is that ok?? 19:49 gmcharlt dragging us back to the specific skipnav issue 19:49 |Lupin| owen: well I personnall do not ask for that. 19:49 jfk i hope this is not a problem, and that we can talk another day 19:48 pianohacker At this point in time, yes, exactly 19:48 jfk but we have a lot of work and today its impossible to talk 19:48 slef owen: depends on time frame 19:48 owen I think it's unrealistic to have, as our goal, a staff client which works perfectly without javascript. 19:48 jfk i'm sorry for the delay 19:48 ricardo joetho: Sounds a good idea to me :) If there are some developers that are accessibility-oriented and that have time to start thinking / discussing / acting on accessibility,that could be nice 19:48 hdl_laptop hi jfk 19:47 jfk hi hdl_laptop 19:47 |Lupin| e.g. adding even patron categories doesn't work without javascript... 19:47 joetho *thinking 19:47 joetho How about asking developers working on OPAC features and functions to start ghinking about accessibility standards, to be ready for later discussion? 19:47 Brooke I would think that the staff opac is the large hurdle 19:47 gmcharlt schuster: they're not incompatible 19:46 |Lupin| well there are some problematic issues I'd say 19:46 schuster I'm more for functionality and bug squashing than accessibility on the staff side. Sorry... my 2 cents. 19:46 |Lupin| owen: okay 19:46 owen ..either simultaneously or before. 19:45 owen I'm not sure |Lupin|, I think the question remains, is it worth undertaking this extensive effort to add an accessibility feature if there are larger accessibility issues to address 19:45 joetho I meant "checking accessibility" 19:45 |Lupin| I mean, if you guys want to talk about accessibilit (a11y) in general, that's fine, but that was not my concern for this meeting 19:44 |Lupin| hmm aren't we becoming off-topic, now ? 19:44 owen We're already doing the best we can to validate. 19:44 slef hdl_laptop: but necessary foundation 19:44 owen http://usefularts.us/2008/09/04/target-ada-accessibility-california/ 19:44 hdl_laptop validator is not enough for acessibilité. 19:43 schuster Yeah - I don't like having to be the tester with my live folks... 19:43 slef validator.w3.org - but we could use tidy to check quicker 19:43 ricardo slef: LOL 19:43 joetho It might be productive to run a few pages through the validator located at www.______________ (I have used it but not for years) 19:43 slef ooh look hdl_laptop went a pretty shade of red 19:42 hdl_laptop |Lupin|: ****sigh**** 19:42 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: is it really needed that there is some general validation ? why not just do it and wait till people test and bug reort ? 19:41 thd schuster: I suspect that this issue is more about good practise than actual technical compliance. 19:41 owen schuster: The first step there would be to identify in what ways it is not compliant 19:41 hdl_laptop My concern is how will we ba able to test and validate ? 19:40 schuster having the opac ADA(American Disability Act) compliant would be of more concern to me than the staff side for future migrators to Koha. 19:40 |Lupin| Administration > System preferences ? 19:40 |Lupin| is it right tha t every page has a title such that 19:40 gmcharlt owen: that would make it an opportunity for us to take a look at the page structure and remove unnecessary inconsistencies along the way 19:40 |Lupin| actually 19:39 thd Consequently, some real work would be required to do it well. 19:39 |Lupin| we may very well split the job between all of us 19:39 |Lupin| so perhaps once an implementation has been chosen 19:39 owen thd, I simply mean that the structure of pages is different enough through the staff client that there are no universally applicable existing IDs to use 19:39 |Lupin| I think the staff client has 361 pages 19:38 slef owen: however, staff client accessibility will probably remain limited by current CSS structure and JS for some time 19:38 slef owen: it's a good idea, the edits should be largely scriptable once identified correctly 19:38 thd owen: why would it be difficult in a broad manner? 19:37 pianohacker |Lupin|: #doc3 is a preexisting wrapper; I agree that a clearer name would be better, especially if we have to hand-place the anchor for each page 19:37 owen slef: do you have an opinion on this question? 19:37 |Lupin| so that ppl realize they have to include it when they do a page 19:37 owen It's hard to see how this task could be accomplished in any broad manner 19:37 thd It may also be useful for being especially compliant with good practises for disability access laws which is more than merely good to have. 19:37 |Lupin| I'd rather have a #maintcontent 19:37 owen The job would require considerable care and specificity in order to ensure each section was being addressed properly 19:36 |Lupin| anyway doc3 is not very clear 19:36 |Lupin| btw I had the staff client inmind, opac seems already very usable from my point of view 19:36 pianohacker owen: Okay, I wasn't sure 19:36 owen #doc3 is not universal 19:36 jdavidb It would be nice, particularly for the non-CSS browsers. For CSS-enabled browsers, hide that rascal, since even on eety-beety-netbooks, you don't need it. 19:35 Brooke it would be a labour of love, but well worth it in terms of community value 19:35 pianohacker Hmm. Very quick test says that #doc3 might be a possible target for a Skip to Content link; not sure how many pages have it, but it works on moremember.pl in ie6 and ff3 on linux 19:34 Brooke that would really give us a leg up in terms of accessibility 19:34 |Lupin| thd: it's a link which would be visible only in browsers that don't use CSS and that, when followed, brings to th real content of the page 19:34 owen http://soap.stanford.edu/show.php?contentid=56 19:33 |Lupin| gmcharlt: thanks 19:33 thd I am not certain what is actually intended by skip to content. 19:33 |Lupin| in particular does the eature interest people, how much energy is there to do the job... 19:33 gmcharlt (post = http://www.mail-archive.com/koha-devel@lists.koha.org/msg02322.html) 19:33 |Lupin| I'd be interested in hearing what the community thinks... 19:32 |Lupin| not much more to say that what was in the post 19:32 |Lupin| well 19:32 |Lupin| yep... 19:32 gmcharlt |Lupin|: want to start the discussion? 19:32 gmcharlt first by |Lupin| - Addition of ?Skip to content? links in the staff client, as discussed on Koha-devel 19:31 gmcharlt we have a couple 19:31 gmcharlt in terms of other issues on the agenda 19:31 gmcharlt I've reminded nengard about it 19:31 schuster I'll do my part tomorrow on the edit - then others can edit for correctness! 19:30 Brooke One day, I'll grow up, be civilised, and speak proper Maori 19:30 Brooke Oooh, hot welcome :) 19:30 gmcharlt to help nengard out 19:30 gmcharlt needs more content - everybody should feel free to edit wiki page 19:30 slef hehe 19:29 gmcharlt y 19:29 schuster Hey... We just switched from a proprietary ILS give me some time...;) 19:29 gmcharlt welcome message draft is http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=koha_list_welcome 19:29 slef schuster: Change or Die! http://www.fastcompany.com/node/52717/print 19:29 ricardo slef: OK. "Welcome message" for mailing list subscriptions. Got it. Thanks :) 19:28 slef (quoting gmcharlt from last month) 19:28 slef ricardo: "it's meant to provide a useful set of links and information whenever somebody subscribes to the Koha mailing list" 19:28 schuster davi slef - some of us are just figuring out what systems are there now don't change anything! 19:28 slef gmcharlt: or I can combine it with another mail 19:28 ricardo gmcharlt: "Welcome message issue"? 19:28 gmcharlt slef: yes 19:28 davi slef, ok 19:28 ricardo Hi everyone 19:27 slef gmcharlt: are you pinging? 19:27 gmcharlt I'm not sure where the welcome message issue has gotten to, but we can ping nengard about after the meeting 19:27 slef davi: I think you're right, but I fear landmines until I try running it. 19:27 davi I have a very positive experience using Trac for both bugs, and feature request 19:27 davi slef, it is just that I am almost sure Trac would works for these needs, but it was just a comment 19:26 gmcharlt backburnered, but clearly the poll should be held at some point soon 19:26 gmcharlt continuing on - wiki.koha.org relicensing remains open 19:26 slef np... gmcharlt, hdl_laptop, your turn? 19:25 davi slef, sorry 19:25 slef davi: can we finish reviewing/torturing/breaking it before we go advocating it? ;-) 19:24 wizzyrea <- is guilty of not always doing it. :( 19:24 davi gmcharlt, it the project would use Trac it could both use the ticket feature for bug and for feature request 19:24 wizzyrea reporters need to be diligent about posting their RFC's 19:24 schuster Currently I think it is hard enough trying to find out what enhancements people are WORKING on let alone what we would like to see. Ok I'll sit in the corner now with my hands off the keyboard. 19:23 joetho yes, it is 19:23 wizzyrea fwiw, it's getting easier :) 19:22 schuster At least some of us had this at Koha)09. 19:22 gmcharlt I've expressed this before, but I prefer that we have a single enhancements & defects database 19:22 atz enhancements are already "separate enough" from bugs using the ticketing features available 19:22 joetho I am aware of that. 19:22 wizzyrea I think we were trying to do a double pronged approach, bugs to show sponsored with accompanying wiki page 19:22 schuster We had this discussion already and decided to try using bugs.koha.org for the time being. 19:22 Brooke joe even 19:22 Brooke I think so jow 19:22 joetho I agree too, and I wonder if enhancements should be entirely separate from bugs. 19:22 wizzyrea slef: but it doesn't show who they are doing it for. 19:21 slef wizzyrea: it should be marked as assigned to someone 19:21 davi slef, agreed 19:21 slef davi: sure, for the ones which are seeking cosponsors. I should update schuster's wiki instructions with a link to gnuherds 19:21 wizzyrea slef: yep. Often the enhancement bugs don't say WHO is doing it, just that they are. 19:20 pianohacker slef: Now, the next step is to replace you with a munin plugin 19:20 davi them* 19:20 davi anyway, I way to list then would be great. We could list then at gnuherds.org maybe 19:19 slef wizzyrea: in theory, it should all be in the rfc wiki pages and enh bugs on bugs.koha.org 19:19 hdl_laptop (wip trees on validated features, i mean ;) ) 19:19 wizzyrea (though it might be nice to know who is sponsoring what, maybe they'd let you have a peek) 19:18 gmcharlt sponsoring customer, rather 19:18 hdl_laptop We still have to find a way to organize. 19:18 gmcharlt sekjal: features are still in testing by sponsoring company 19:18 hdl_laptop sekjal: I think that companies will be able to post their wip trees so that ppl can look at it. 19:17 Brooke hooray for stability 19:17 slef hdl_laptop: Has 3.0.3 delayed 3.0.4 (was 3) testing at all? 19:17 davi hdl_laptop, sure 19:17 hdl_laptop I am now working on reconciliation of head upon 3.0.3 so that we can release a "stable" version for every body 19:16 sekjal is there any way for us to get a preview of the other new functionality of 3.2... course reserves, or the holdings/summary records? 19:16 wizzyrea Jigs done at NEKLS too 19:16 schuster 13Small jig done in office... 19:15 gmcharlt schuster: yeah, that patch is floating around and will almost certainly be incorporated 19:15 hdl_laptop Well there has been a bug fix release for 3.0.2 which had 2 major problems. 19:15 schuster Are circulation sounds in 3.2? Seem I saw that someplace...? 19:14 gmcharlt feel free to ask further 3.2 questions, but let's move on to 3.0.x update from hdl_laptop 19:14 gmcharlt cait: 3.2 19:14 cait which release will probably include acq? 19:13 atz yes, i think i filed a bug on that topic 19:13 gmcharlt on the assumption that people may just want to upgrade from 3.0.x to 3.2 rather than install anew ;) 19:12 gmcharlt in other 3.2 / 3.0 news, I'm working with HDL to ensure that 3.0.x -> 3.2 DBs revs will work correctly 19:12 hdl_laptop (July ) 19:12 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: no no, just an overall description of what you guys aredoing 19:11 gmcharlt regarding dates, I'll be pushing for a pre-alpha or alpha by end of month - mostly just as another milestone 19:11 hdl_laptop But if you are asking about user doc, then answer is no. 19:11 slef |Lupin|: in theory, it should all be in the rfc3.2 wiki pages and enh bugs on bugs.koha.org 19:10 hdl_laptop there is some on the wiki 19:10 |Lupin| is there some doc available somewhere about BibLibre's current works ? 19:09 slef hdl_laptop: please get in touch with davi about EDI integration in a couple of weeks 19:09 gmcharlt Colin: not specifically, no - note that I believe slef is intrested in the general EDI integration issue 19:09 hdl_laptop not at the moment. 19:09 hdl_laptop Colin unfortunately no. 19:09 Colin Does the acq work have any hooks for EDI integration? 19:09 gmcharlt snap 19:08 hdl_laptop we should do publicize it this week 19:08 schuster Sorry - librarian hat today. 19:08 hdl_laptop work in progress 19:08 gmcharlt WIP = work in progress 19:08 schuster Sorry clarify WIP branch? 19:07 gmcharlt I'm also in discussion with hdl_laptop about getting a tree put up with BibLibre's SOPAC and other work 19:07 gmcharlt noted 19:07 Colin It would be useful to see a feature branch real soon now. We have sites who are v. acq concerned 19:07 gmcharlt slef: no 19:07 slef heh, happy holiday :-/ 19:07 slef gmcharlt: any impact on other dates yet? 19:07 gmcharlt before I drive to my mother-in-law's :) 19:06 gmcharlt slef: early July now, obviously - holiday activity for me this weekend 19:06 gmcharlt will be adding an ungrade path 19:06 slef pre-pre-alpha release some time in June 2009? http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:roadmap3.2 19:06 gmcharlt but I think the main blocker for merging it into head 19:06 gmcharlt some nits have been identified 19:05 gmcharlt regarding BibLibre's new_acq, WIP branch will be ready soon 19:05 gmcharlt first, a quick 3.2 update - relatively same status as last month 19:05 gmcharlt Modification of bulkmarcimport so that it reminds the user to run rebuild_(no)zebra by default and has a switch to disable this. 19:05 gmcharlt 5. 19:05 gmcharlt Addition of ?Skip to content? links in the staff client, as discussed on Koha-devel 19:05 gmcharlt 4. 19:05 gmcharlt Follow-up on actions from General Meeting on Wednesday, 3 June 2009 19:05 gmcharlt 3. 19:05 gmcharlt Update on Koha 3.0 Roadmap 19:05 gmcharlt 2. 19:05 gmcharlt Update on Roadmap to 3.2 19:05 gmcharlt 1. 19:05 gmcharlt agenda items are 19:04 gmcharlt wiki page for this meeting is http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes09jul01 19:04 gmcharlt ok, thanks all - stragglers, feel free to announce yourselves, but we'll get started with the agenda 19:04 Patmac Patrick Mackeown, Litarena 19:04 Brooke Hi 19:03 Sharon Sharon Moreland, NEKLS 19:03 thd Thomas Dukleth 19:02 MickeyCoalwell Mickey Coalwell NEKLS 19:02 joetho Joe Tholen SEKnFIND consortium Southeast Kansas 19:02 hdl_laptop hdl : Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre 19:02 Crusoe Crusoe = Andrei V. Toutoukine (Ivanovo, Russia) 19:02 marla Marla Rutherford, INCOLSA 19:02 jmr John Rose, PTFS 19:02 dbirmingham = David Birmingham, PTFS 19:02 schuster David Schuster - Plano ISD 19:02 hdl_laptop hi 19:02 tajoli tajoli == Zeno Tajoli, CILEA (Italy) 19:02 collum Garry Collum - Kenton County Public Library 19:02 |Lupin| |Lupin| = Sébastien HInderer 19:01 brendan Brendan Gallagher - ByWater Solutions 19:01 Colin Colin Campbell (ptfs-europe) here 19:01 sekjal Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries 19:01 owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library 19:01 dbirmingham Chatting 19:01 danielsweeney danielsweeney = Daniel Sweeney at LibLime 19:01 jdavidb jdavidb == J. David Bavousett, PTFS. 19:01 wizzyrea wizzyrea= Liz Rea, NEKLS 19:01 pianohacker <-- Jesse Weaver 19:01 atz Joe Atzberger, LibLime 19:01 cait katrin fischer here 19:01 jdavidb here! 19:01 slef MJ Ray at software.coop 19:01 gmcharlt gmcharlt = Galen Charlton 19:01 pianohacker present 19:01 gmcharlt and ... go! 19:01 gmcharlt let's start with a show of virtual hands, i.e., roll call 19:01 gmcharlt let 19:00 gmcharlt welcome to the 1/2 July general IRC meeting of the Koha project 19:00 gmcharlt time to get this show on the road 19:00 gmcharlt howdy folks 18:57 joetho Ignition sequence. 18:57 joetho Tee minus four minutes. 18:47 |Lupin| hi Crusoe 18:46 pianohacker hi, Crusoe 18:46 Crusoe hi all 18:19 owen I just hate to see the XSL option being used but the flexibility of it not being able to be tapped. 18:19 slef ok, I'm going to grab dinner and return just before the meeting 18:18 owen It'd have to be class names for the search results screen 18:18 gmcharlt owen: unique IDs would be nice, as long as uniqueness was guaranteed 18:18 Sharon Liz isn't here to chime in, but being able to pick and choose what displays would be great. 18:18 gmcharlt owen: class names, at least 18:18 atz owen: yeah, i think that should be a general guideline 18:17 Sharon I'll add it to bugzilla, then. It's just one of those things that drives me nuts. 18:17 owen Which raises the question: should every line that comes out of the XSLT display have a unique ID for this purpose? 18:17 atz it's a fairly easy enhancement to produce 18:17 owen That's the trouble atz, it isn't. 18:16 atz if it is in an identifiable <span>, then you can use custom CSS 18:16 |Lupin| brb 18:16 owen Well, editing your XSL stylesheet is the obvious answer...not the greatest answer if you don't have access to those files 18:15 Sharon http://catalog.nexpresslibrary.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=metro+girl - 3rd record down 18:14 owen Can you show me an example? 18:14 Sharon Owen - do you all 'hide' the call number display in the OPAC, especially when it shows the LC call number from the Bib? (Call Number: PS3555.V2126 M48 2004 ) 18:14 slef owen: if I had copy-paste, I'd rework the Four Yorkshiremen sketch now 18:12 owen I trek 300 miles to the nearest active volcano in search of boiling water. 18:12 owen Aren't we all fancy with our lens! 18:12 thd I just drink water. It is easier :) 18:11 slef thd: I chew the beans and boil the water with a lens 18:11 thd perhaps slef makes coffee the old fashioned way 18:09 |Lupin| nowadays coffee machines should have that ! 18:09 |Lupin| :-) 18:08 slef ta |Lupin| - I don't have working copy-paste from the kitchen :) 18:08 |Lupin| http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes09jul01 <-- direct link 18:06 slef http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=irc_meetings and top link I think 18:06 slef yes 18:05 thd Is there an agenda posted somewhere?? 18:05 |Lupin| yes 18:05 thd is the meeting one hour from now? 17:59 gmcharlt from which should be parsed entities like main heading, see also, see also from, translations, etc. 17:59 gmcharlt an authority search returns a bunch of authority MARC records, obviously 17:58 gmcharlt slef: the formatting of heading search results should be moved entirely to the templates 17:57 slef I'm assuming/hoping there's some reason why I didn't merge my old code directly. 17:57 slef gmcharlt: will do. Can you outline how you'd prefer it was done? 17:56 gmcharlt slef: desirable enhancement, at any rate 17:56 slef gmcharlt: is that a known bug to fix? 17:55 gmcharlt slef: are you referring to the information that displays when you do an authority heading search? if so, most of that output is hardcoded 17:55 slef gmcharlt: do the output templates and code? IIRC, last test I only saw See Alsos. 17:53 slef no, it's at http://laconi.ca/trac/wiki/Apps 17:52 slef wizzyrea: I used to have a firefox extension installed but I've lost it. Isn't there an Apps link on http://identi.ca 17:51 slef wizzyrea: variously emacs-jabber, pidgin, command-line, my website and their website. 17:50 gmcharlt slef: the MARC21 authority frameworks should have all of the relevant tags defined 17:49 wizzyrea ah, well what do you use to post to identi.ca? 17:48 slef gmcharlt: IIRC, MARC21 Koha doesn't have all of those and I thought it did, but it may have been in one of my local branches. Will find the file(s). 17:48 slef gmcharlt: UNIMARC Koha seems to have fields/code for subject name, translation, broader narrower and related terms, use for and replace with. 17:47 slef ok, got access to notes on laptop. 17:44 slef wizzyrea: I don't know what tweetdeck is, so I'm ill-qualified to answer that question. 17:43 wizzyrea slef: unrelated to koha question: what's a good tweetdeck like client for identi.ca? 17:40 |Lupin| hi again, all 17:38 slef it has some notes on cross-referencing 17:38 slef 1mo... just remembered what I wanted the laptop for 17:38 davi slef, Video conferencing allow a very quicker interaction, but obviously it is even more intrusive than chat 17:38 slef do we have cross-referencing of subjects in MARC21 in Koha? 17:37 gmcharlt slef: what's your question? 17:36 slef any MARC21 smarties about? 17:36 davi and I agree that by default, chat is the best one, being email the second due to it is less intrusive 17:36 slef true... video conferencing is best for pulling faces at davis 17:35 davi however, I would say: "for each situation use the best tool" 17:35 slef awwww, no arguments? all I have is a random anecdote from someone I don't have an email address for... it's not a strong argument 17:34 davi maybe you are right, slef 17:24 slef so much backlog, so little time 17:24 slef I should have told davi that and see what he said :) 17:23 slef apparently video conferencing less productive than text chat or phones according to a guy who used to work at BT I met at a conference 17:20 wizzyrea now, if we had *video*... 17:20 wizzyrea but it is hard to type when you're wasted :P 17:20 wizzyrea but we are virtually together! 17:20 owen Not as much fun if each of us is drinking all by ourselves 17:18 wizzyrea woot drunken koha meeting! 17:17 nicomo see ya all 17:17 nicomo uh, time for fresh beer 17:17 munin nicomo: The current temperature in Feyzin, Feyzin, France is 30.5°C (7:00 PM CEST on July 01, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.96 in 1014.4 hPa (Steady). 17:17 nicomo @wunder lyon, france 17:05 slef time check - 1h55 to meeting? 17:05 slef hello Snow_Fox 16:30 wizzyrea crap we've deleted... 16:30 wizzyrea so I don't know if they're ghosts or what 16:30 wizzyrea bah, the screencap is correct, we have 18 unknown value itemtypes, and we can't see them in the dropdown when editing items 16:28 atz wizzyrea: but we're talking about collection codes, not itemtypes right? 16:27 wizzyrea our db has 18 rows of UNKNOWN VALUE, all with 0 checkout 16:27 wizzyrea it's the circ report wizard 16:27 schuster Ah... you could run it in the wizard. 16:26 wizzyrea that screencap is from the LL demo 16:26 wizzyrea we are hosted >.> 16:26 slef any MARC21 gurus in the house? 16:26 wizzyrea yea... about that 16:26 slef select * from tablename where constraint; 16:26 wizzyrea http://screencast.com/t/qeRmvzEFdkm 16:26 schuster Sorry jumped into the middle of a discussion... in mysql can you run a query on the table? 16:24 slef for subject headings, I mean 16:24 wizzyrea hm this may require a visual 16:24 atz edit the item itself... shouldn't have anything to do w/ indexing or ccodes 16:24 wizzyrea schuster: sec, lemme look 16:24 slef hrm... does koha3- MARC21 support broader-term linking? 16:24 wizzyrea well they don't show up in the list of collection codes 16:23 schuster Edit the item barcode. 16:23 atz er... "can't see" i don't get 16:23 wizzyrea which kind of begs the question, if I can't see them, how can i add a value to them? 16:23 atz wizzyrea: yes, exactly 16:23 wizzyrea that we can't see? 16:23 schuster When you search for a title and select Edit items at the top do you see the item detail or does it just show edit/delete? 16:23 wizzyrea so are you sayingg we have 18 instances of empty collection codes? 16:22 schuster wizzyrea - question - 16:22 atz yeah, just add values to the records 16:22 wizzyrea rows of this 16:22 wizzyrea we have like 18 16:22 wizzyrea (can we get rid of them) 16:22 wizzyrea so... why are they there? 16:21 atz ok, i'm pretty sure that is the placeholder for NULL's 16:19 wizzyrea yea, it says UNKNOWN VALUE 16:15 atz i'd suspect is was the filler for when the code is NULL in the DB, but I don't know 16:14 atz wizzyrea: does it look like "UNKNOWN" or what? 16:13 owen unknown values? 16:05 wizzyrea anybody here know what the unknown values when sorting circ reports by collection code are in circulation reports? 15:37 owen Thanks for explaining. 15:37 owen Oh, duh. When I saw the options for controlling CCs I assumed that what it would affect. 15:37 gmcharlt automatic CC of bug activity to that mailing list 15:36 gmcharlt owen: the email was sent to koha-bugs@lists.koha.org, not to you directly 15:30 gmcharlt owen: could you send me the headers from the latest unwanted email? 15:29 slef oh my - how did it get to 1630 :( 15:29 owen As far as I know...but if I wasn't getting notice of some CC changes I wouldn't know that there were CC changes which I missed :| 15:28 gmcharlt owen: or to ask the question properly, are you getting notification of CC changes for all bugs, as far as you can tell? 15:27 gmcharlt owen: are you getting CCed on all bugs? 15:23 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3378 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, galen.charlton@liblime.com, NEW, Renewal policy should match pickup library's policies 15:23 owen The most recent example of a message I received was slef adding himself as a CC to [Bug 3378] Renewal policy should match pickup library's policies 15:22 owen gmcharlt: in "Field/recipient specific options:" I have noting checked in the row for "I want to receive mail when: The CC field changes " 15:21 gmcharlt and what's an example bug where you're seeing the CC change emails? 15:21 gmcharlt owen: what do your email prefs look like? 15:20 hdl_laptop1 owen: maybe you are a bugzilla administrator 14:58 |Lupin| k, see you in four hours, for the meeting 14:50 |Lupin| owen: don't know, sorry. 14:48 owen Why am I still getting Bugzilla emails when the CC field changes? I unchecked all the boxes for that option! 14:44 |Lupin| how to se the options for rebuild_nozebra, pls ? 14:40 atz connexion integration would be a great project for somebody, using the same API as biblios 14:38 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in MSU Physics Dept, Mankato, Minnesota is 14.8°C (9:30 AM CDT on July 01, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.88 in 1011.7 hPa (Falling). 14:38 moodaepo @wunder 56001 14:36 atz and you could use biblios to get the records, and then push from there to Koha 14:36 moodaepo right 14:36 atz you can download MARC files from connection and upload them of course 14:36 moodaepo cool 14:35 atz you mean pushing from connexion directly to Koha? don't think that's been done yet 14:35 moodaepo what about connexion client? 14:34 atz but using the old record as the starting point, it doesn't look much like that 14:34 moodaepo ah ok thanks 14:34 atz i guess that is more like whole record replacement... 14:33 atz so people use export/ MarcEdit/ overlay to do batch changes 14:33 atz it can do merge/overlay 14:33 moodaepo also does koha do a merge on dupe bibs or a whole record replacement? 14:32 moodaepo no on the global change? 14:32 atz moodaepo: no 14:30 moodaepo also any option for global change for bibs? 14:29 moodaepo is that an option in Koha...I haven't checked. 14:29 moodaepo Export from connexion Client 14:26 collum I don't really know anything about Unimarc. Can someone else confirm? 14:24 |Lupin| collum: but actually for Unimarc records these errors could be ignored, right ? 14:24 owen Glad to hear it :) 14:22 schuster thought I would share this quote from a librarian this morning on what we did yesterday "Love them! Wonderful.... you can see what is happening immediately. I have just seen at check-in." 14:22 |Lupin| collum: thanks ! 14:22 owen Yes 14:22 schuster Owen around? 14:21 collum Lupin: http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/nlr/nlr.html - Last paragraph 14:17 |Lupin| Does tis error message reported by MARC::batch::next tell something to somebody ? 14:16 |Lupin| Invalid indicator "|" forced to blank 13:54 |Lupin| gmcharlt: okay, thanks ! 13:54 gmcharlt |Lupin|: use the IO::Scalar module 13:53 |Lupin| gmcharlt: yesterday you said that it is possible in Perl to build a file handle from a scalar. Could you please explain how ? 13:34 brendan sweet thanks :) 13:33 owen http://www.librarytechnology.org/news.pl??SID=20090701128967285&code=&code=PR 13:33 brendan owen - do you have a link handy that you could send along? 13:32 brendan thanks owen 13:32 owen Hi brendan, nice to see you get a couple of mentions in the Library Technology Update today 12:38 kf :) 12:37 gmcharlt welcome, Koha! did somebody write an AI module recently? ;) 12:31 kf youre welcome 12:31 |Lupin| kf gmcharlt: thanks to both of ou, your explanations are awesome. 12:30 kf and retroconversion for catalog cards (paper) to electronic catalog 12:29 kf i would use migration for electronic to electronic catalog 12:29 |Lupin| kf: yes, migration is the word I'd spontaneously use, bu it seems librarians here in France prefer retroconverson, which looks rather counter-intuitve to me 12:29 kf for cataloging from catalog cards to an electronic system 12:29 gmcharlt |Lupin|: also known as "recon" in US English 12:29 kf retroconversion is also used in Germany 12:29 gmcharlt |Lupin|: retrospective conversion, if you mean the process of taking an old card or book catalog and getting MARC records to import into an ILS 12:28 |Lupin| kf: now I know that in french librarians call this retroconversion. Does a similar term exist in english ? 12:28 kf do you mean something like migration or conversion? 12:28 |Lupin| kf: now I know that in french librarians call this retroconversion. Does the sa 12:28 kf im German, so this is difficult 12:28 kf uh 12:27 |Lupin| kf: the name for the acton of taking an old catalogue and importing it in a new system 12:27 |Lupin| kf: I was looking for a word 12:17 kf librarian here 12:10 |Lupin| hi Amit 12:09 Amit hi lupin 12:08 |Lupin| librarians around, please ? 12:07 |Lupin| hello !