Time Nick Message 11:18 chris hmm 07:02 si I'm glad to hear it 07:01 brendan Kohacon -- was an excellent time 07:01 brendan due to the weather there 07:00 brendan I think chris was saying that he was glad he didn't get tickets this time 07:00 si how did the kohacon go? 07:00 si hey inded 07:00 brendan hey si -- been awhile since we've chatted 07:00 si game, even 07:00 si must be a big rugby came on tonight 07:00 si it's relatively unpleasant here in Wellington NZ 06:58 brendan :) 06:57 munin brendan: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0°C (6:00 PM NZST on June 20, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.45 in 1031 hPa (Steady). 06:57 brendan @wunder wellington, NZ 06:57 brendan well that is warmer than 06:57 munin brendan: The current temperature in Near Mission - TC, Santa Barbara, California is 16.6°C (11:56 PM PDT on June 19, 2009). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Rising). 06:57 brendan @wunder santa barbara, ca 22:27 munin pianohacker: Jo was last seen in #koha 18 hours, 6 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <Jo> well we are trying .. 22:27 pianohacker @seen Jo 21:30 chris back later 21:30 chris ok, im gonna take kahu to gmnastics, which consists of daddy laughing hysterically as kahu dives into the big foam pit ... then me climbing in to get him out 20:47 chris rhcl: would you like me to get walter to give me a demo of 1.3 and i write up a summary for ya? 20:43 chris i dont enjoy it much 20:43 chris once it starts getting over that 20:43 chris 22-28 is nice 20:42 wizzyrea 32-34 20:42 wizzyrea yesterday was hotter 20:42 chris that is pretty hot 20:41 chris each of them by themselves is fine .. combine them, and it sux 20:41 chris its a wet cold today, i hate cold + wind + rain 20:41 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 30.4°C (3:41 PM CDT on June 19, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 21.0°C. Pressure: 29.64 in 1003.6 hPa (Steady). 20:41 wizzyrea @wunder Lawrence, KS 20:41 wizzyrea it's as nasty cold there as it is nasty hot here 20:41 chris its gonna be freezing at the stadium 20:41 wizzyrea ew, cold 20:41 chris man for once im glad i didnt get tickets 20:40 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0°C (8:25 AM NZST on June 20, 2009). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Windchill: 4.0°C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029 hPa (Steady). 20:40 chris @wunder wellington, new zealand 20:40 chris hmm 11 hours till we get our revenge on the french rugby team 20:39 danny friday++ 20:39 munin danny: friday: 116000000, monday: 103000000 20:39 danny @google fight monday friday 20:34 wizzyrea I think that a lot, actually 20:34 chris heh 20:34 munin chris: Quote #6: "gmcharlt: kf: hold requests are a plot to sell more aspirin ;)" (added by wizzyrea at 04:13 PM, June 16, 2009) 20:34 chris @quote random 20:27 munin SirStan: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command). 20:27 SirStan @quote add <gmcharlt> you know, you got a bad deal if you sold your soul for a TODO list ;) 20:26 chris wiggles dvd, toast and an apple .. sorted for approx 7 minutes 20:25 chris back 20:24 wizzyrea oh snap 20:24 munin wizzyrea: Quote #8: "< wizzyrea> in my experience the transition to koha is much harder for libraries that are already automated" (added by pianohacker at 05:57 PM, June 19, 2009) 20:24 wizzyrea @quote random 20:24 pianohacker quoteback! 20:23 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #9 added. 20:23 wizzyrea @quote add pianohacker ponders drumstick->ear as a method of food acquisition...We haven't gone to this good mexican restaurant in a while... 20:21 pianohacker We haven't gone to this good mexican restaurant in a while... 20:09 wizzyrea kids++ 20:06 chris have a drum kit in the lounge wasnt the best idea 20:06 chris mmm kahu is trying to stick a drumstick in my ear 19:53 chris yeah, they are trying to eradicate them here, for the same reason 19:53 rhcl well, we have a lot here, and they are pests--compete with native species 19:53 wizzyrea oops 19:53 wizzyrea ops 19:53 chris some idiots release some koi carp 19:52 chris i dont think we have carp, except as pests 19:52 rhcl Ah, the slow boat... 19:52 chris hehe they row or swim 19:52 rhcl :) 19:51 rhcl so do poor people fly there to do carp fishing? 19:51 chris and there is some good deep sea fishing too 19:51 chris rhcl: rich people fly here to do trout fishing 19:51 chris 2 people at my work worked at weta 19:50 wizzyrea well there you go 19:50 chris yes 19:50 wizzyrea hm... so does that mean you know someone who knows peter jackson? 19:50 chris it is pretty good 19:50 rhcl I guess I have the <possibly very foreign> idea that the fishing must be great in NZ. 19:50 chris my wife (who is from pittsburgh originally) likes to say there is only 2 degrees of separation in nz, not 6 19:49 chris mason also used to be a sysadmin/system support dude at the libraries up near new plymouth (and worked with me and walter at katipo too) 19:46 chris :) 19:46 gmcharlt ... if not necessarily as compact as it could be ;) 19:45 chris nz is a small place :) 19:45 rhcl well, catch a ride with him. :) 19:45 chris and actually helped interview him when he applied for a job at katipo 19:45 chris but i live 3 blocks away from walter :) 19:45 chris nope 19:44 rhcl chris: are you close to New Plymouth? http://kete.net.nz/blog/topics/show/281-see-the-latest-prerelease-kete-features 19:43 Snow_Fox atz: i think i found the details i need, curious about what the file size should prob be set too, i would imagine smaller better due to load times and storage 19:42 rhcl hey chris, gimme a sec 19:39 chris heya danny 19:37 danny hey chris 19:20 atz Snow_Fox: check under the patron image upload tool (or its help)? 19:17 wizzyrea mornin chris 19:17 chris morning 19:17 wizzyrea BUT they didn't have to deal with transfers, either 19:16 wizzyrea all checkins were mass checkins, technically 19:16 wizzyrea joetho: winnebago didn't make the distinction between regular checkins and mass checkins 19:07 Snow_Fox im having problems finding the image requirements for patron photos anyone know where i can find this? 19:00 Sharon I got lunch, I'm ready to argue, I mean discuss, some more 19:00 SirStan heh 18:59 Sharon if offline circ worked... 18:59 Sharon During summer reading, people are taking and leaving dozens of books all at once, there are long lines and overworked staff. Anything that can make checking in items easier, would be a welcome enhancement to any ILS 18:59 atz yes, offline circ. 18:59 SirStan if no -> its a technical problem. 18:59 SirStan Does KOHA have a way to scan in 50 barcodes and mark them all "in" ? 18:58 joetho I agree it is not a technical problem. This may be an example of a staff workflow problem looking for a technical solution 18:56 atz "nearline" circ 18:56 atz but other than that, the bulk returns idea is feasible. a "chunk" of returns at once instead of 1 at a time. 18:55 atz *its 18:55 atz it's list of 50 books may more may not have anything to do with the 50 books in front of you 18:55 atz joetho: it's not a technical problem... it's that you don't really know what you are asking the ILS to do. 18:52 Snow_Fox anyone know off the top of there head what the patron photo requirements are for koha? 18:49 joetho that would check in the regular ones, and generate an "action window" or something for the ones that have holds, fines, etc 18:48 joetho a different process than a regular individual checkin 18:48 joetho I like the idea of a "bulk check-in button" allowing you to scan in a bunch of books (with maybe a numerical limit) and preview the results before hitting "submit" 18:46 joetho Having to check in 50 books instantly (or close to instantly); Is this a reasonable thing to ask of an ILS? 18:35 pianohacker brb 18:21 wizzyrea :) 18:21 wizzyrea dk, thanks for the discussion. 18:20 wizzyrea put more of the functionality on the circulation pages 18:19 wizzyrea actually, the same library that pointed out the problem with return all had that suggestion 18:19 wizzyrea but there's probably a reason not to do that 18:18 wizzyrea or eliminate that functionality from the details page, and keep it all on the returns page 18:18 atz the hellish part would be keeping it and regular returns page in sync 18:18 wizzyrea atz: I have no doubt that would be a large project. and it would totally change how it works, which could be good or bad, depending on your viewpoint. 18:14 wizzyrea at least web requests 18:14 wizzyrea and would cost fewer requests to the server, too 18:14 wizzyrea and the workflow of that might actually be a little better 18:14 wizzyrea dk, I'd have to see that implemented to see if I liked it... I mean, I've worked in winnebago and I always thought it was stupid how that checkin worked, but sharon has some good points about how it works practically when in a library 18:12 wizzyrea similar idea 18:12 atz still a moderately large project 18:12 wizzyrea sort of how the rfid in basehor works 18:12 atz that would be doable 18:12 wizzyrea and it processes all at once, checks in the ones it can, but gives you a printed output of items that require further attention 18:11 wizzyrea instead of processing all checkins one at a time you did it kind of like winnebago where you scan them all (like, into a form) and then say "submit" 18:11 wizzyrea what if 18:11 wizzyrea (dangerous I know) 18:10 wizzyrea I had a thought 18:10 wizzyrea ok how about this 18:06 atz but it doesn't scale 18:06 atz i'm sure to a small library, it seems like "oh, I checked those out to Sam last week, I know what they are" 18:05 Sharon yes, that's the bug 18:04 atz you'll get books from other libraries or the patron's private books 18:04 atz you need to scan them or you don't know what they really are 18:03 Sharon spit out the exceptions (transfers and holds) for scanning 18:03 Sharon when you check in the first, it pulls up the patron's record, showing you the other 49 they might be bringing back. Then you can figure out how to do a mass check in 18:03 atz you still have to scan each item (or RFID it) to know what you have 18:02 atz Sharon: the question is "how do you know it's 50 items"? 18:02 Sharon I don't know what that means. I'm just trying to put in some practicality 18:02 pianohacker UPDATE items SET onloan = '' 18:02 atz boom. they're checked in. 18:02 pianohacker Switch to RFID 18:02 atz Sharon... truncate issues table. 18:01 Sharon The issue is time - when you have a patron bringing in a stack of 50 items...what's the most efficient way to check them in? 17:59 gmcharlt Dynix Classic for me 17:59 atz ah... multiLIS 17:58 atz it's hard to forget your first time. 17:57 wizzyrea atz++ yes, that has been our experience 17:57 munin pianohacker: The operation succeeded. Quote #8 added. 17:57 pianohacker @quote add < wizzyrea> in my experience the transition to koha is much harder for libraries that are already automated 17:57 atz if they've already migrated 5 times in 10 years, they probably dont care anymore 17:57 atz i imagine it is hardest for libraries that have seen exactly one automation system 17:57 wizzyrea because you get the "but x did it this way and that's what I know so that's what I want" 17:56 wizzyrea in my experience the transition to koha is much harder for libraries that are already automated 17:56 atz i think 1 and 2 are good enough arguments 17:56 wizzyrea nah, it's not sore for me 17:55 atz "let teh machine handle it! teh machine is majickal!" 17:55 gmcharlt human clock cycles are almost always more valuable 17:55 wizzyrea so you might not gain anything 17:54 wizzyrea 3. almost any way that you fix it is going to either trade human clock cycles for machine ones, or machine cycles for human ones 17:54 atz good points 17:54 wizzyrea 2. staff should look at the screen when returning items to make sure the right thing is getting returned 17:53 wizzyrea 1. winnebago never had to deal with transfers, so you would have never had this problem 17:53 wizzyrea well to me, I don't think it SHOULD work, ad here's why: 17:53 atz *same as 17:52 atz basically the same a link to returns w/ a fancy add on of what you expect to get through... still not a magical as they would want, i'm sure 17:52 pianohacker Thus requiring them to scan, but still allowing multiple returns 17:52 atz you could have it post to a returns page that just queues the items from details while prompting them to scan 17:51 wizzyrea kno* 17:51 wizzyrea ikorite 17:51 pianohacker </badsign> 17:51 pianohacker Hmm. First result for winnebago was a mailing list post about migrating away from it 17:50 wizzyrea <whine>"but winnebago does it!!"</whine> 17:50 wizzyrea re: disable 17:50 wizzyrea YES, see that's what I was thinking 17:47 gmcharlt or, possibly, disable return all from the patron details page, on the theory that you should be scanning each item barcode anyway just to make sure that the patron has in fact returned all of their items ;) 17:46 pianohacker gmcharlt: The latter is roughly the approach I took with ajaxcirc, seemed to work well 17:46 gmcharlt or (I suppose) have it spawn a bunch of popup windows, each handling an individual return for such items 17:45 gmcharlt and have it either block such returns (requiring the operator to handle them one at a time) 17:45 pianohacker Enhancement sponsorship on this could involve chipping in for the necessary lobotomy for the developer in question 17:45 gmcharlt smaller would be having code detect when a return would trigger such a message 17:44 atz a moderately large project 17:44 gmcharlt and tweaking the UI to deal with multiple return messages 17:44 gmcharlt are handing lower down in the API 17:44 gmcharlt so that events that should be triggered by the return of an item 17:43 gmcharlt wizzyrea: refactoring returns code 17:43 wizzyrea anybody have ideas on how to handle that? 17:43 munin wizzyrea: 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3345 normal, P5, ---, email@example.com, NEW, Return All items on patron detail does not initiate transfer of holds 17:43 wizzyrea @bug 3345 17:15 SirStan ah 17:14 pianohacker zebrasrv -f .../koha-conf.xml 17:14 SirStan shouldnt zebrasrv -c /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml start zerbra? 17:10 gmcharlt hi jdavidb 17:09 jdavidb Howdy, gmcharlt. :) 16:55 SirStan or whatever joomla|drupla cms has that same blue border theme 16:55 SirStan that page makes me think microsoft/shaerpoint 16:52 pianohacker *to my eyes? I dunno 16:51 pianohacker Hmm. That's actually much nicer than mibbit, in my eyes 16:51 joetho go easy on me 16:51 joetho I just turned my computer on 16:50 wizzyrea you will hate this. 16:50 wizzyrea see our new link at www.nexpresslibrary.org 16:50 wizzyrea joetho: mibbit doesn't work with freenode anymore 16:46 SirStan bad user. 16:46 SirStan or maybe i symlinked the /etc/koha dir. 16:45 SirStan I ask; because it didnt seem to put it anywhere. 16:45 SirStan Where does koha put its conf file after make install? 15:26 wizzyrea hence, no data 15:26 wizzyrea turns out nobody puts in notes :P 15:26 wizzyrea nm, it's working I"m dumb :) 15:26 gmcharlt wizzyrea: there is a reserves.reservesnotes column 15:25 wizzyrea was going to file a bug/make a suggestion on what to put there 15:25 pianohacker wizzyrea: I would think the note field that is filled in when you place the hold </maybenotthismightbeabug> 15:25 wizzyrea we don't show any data at all, which is curious 15:24 wizzyrea question: what data is supposed to show in the reserve/request.pl existing holds "notes" column? 15:24 Lybrarian but normally, no we do not allow patrons to pick and choose which item they want to place on hold - they're stuck with 'next available' 15:24 Lybrarian pianohacker we are sponsoring an enhancement to allow multiple item-level holds (from the staff client) 15:19 Elwell_ ditto. 15:06 |Lupin| take care all and have a nice week-end. be ! 15:06 |Lupin| thanks anyway for having clarified the item/bibli/biblioitem issue ! 15:05 |Lupin| will have to experiment 15:05 |Lupin| I see 15:02 pianohacker Lybrarian: Ahh, since you might have multiple copies of each, and Koha currently does not allow you to restrict the hold to multiple items ? 15:02 wizzyrea lybrarian++ 15:01 Lybrarian Cataloging decisions like that are up to the library - we try to think in terms of what's best for the patron trying to place an item on hold...if they want the DVD and not the VHS, there need to be 2 separate bib records 15:01 |Lupin| I thought it would be okay to have only one record with multiple 852 unimarc fields... 15:00 pianohacker For instance, at our library, if we have the game X-men legends for the Xbox and PS2, we have one bib for both of them 15:00 pianohacker I'd go with what Lybrarian said, and then try combining certain very similar formats and seeing how it works for you 15:00 |Lupin| Lybrarian: but then they should be generated automatically by the system... 14:59 |Lupin| are there some recommandations about it ? 14:59 pianohacker |Lupin|: That really depends on the librarie's policy 14:59 Lybrarian Lupin different formats should have different bib records 14:58 pianohacker Lybrarian: Yup, will be merged into biblio 14:58 Lybrarian at Kohacon, didn't they say biblioitems is redundant and going away soon? 14:58 |Lupin| pianohacker: now imagine you have a book but in several formats. Would it be correct to use one item entry for each of them ? 14:58 pianohacker Cool; it's weird, took me some time to get used to 14:57 pianohacker Currently, there would be one entry in biblio, one entry in biblioitems and five entries in items 14:57 |Lupin| pianohacker: okay, thanks, I think I got it. 14:57 pianohacker If I have five copies of Moby Dick, there'll be one entry in biblio and five entries in items 14:57 pianohacker *on each copy 14:56 pianohacker Well, there'll be biblio, which contains information on each book, and items, which contains information each copy 14:56 |Lupin| pianohacker: ah, so there will be only two things ultimately, biblio which is generic bibliographic data, and biblio-item which conains informaton specific to each book. Right ? 14:54 pianohacker |Lupin|: biblio and biblioitem both contain information about the whole record (used to be more separate; they will be merged soon), and items contains information about single items 14:53 |Lupin| hi pianohacker 14:53 |Lupin| can't stay very ong but I'd like to ask if someone could explain what biblio, biblioitem and item are or perhaps point to relevant documentation ? 14:52 pianohacker morning 14:52 |Lupin| hello there ! 14:48 pianohacker He usually comes in around 1-2:00 mountain time (7-8:00 AM his time) 14:46 munin rhcl: chris was last seen in #koha 5 hours, 37 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <chris> evening 14:46 rhcl @seen chris 14:33 jwagner Snow_Fox, we are working on an enhancement for a client to dump notices to an HTML file for people without email addresses. Then that file can be called up in the browser and printed. 14:32 Snow_Fox kk thankyou 14:32 pianohacker Snow_Fox: I think there's a CSV output option 14:32 Snow_Fox hey instead of recieving a email about user over due notices is there a way to dump that info to a file for processing for print jobs? 14:19 SirStan ah. 14:19 gmcharlt you have to have chosen to instsall the Zebra config files when you go through the Makefile.PL questions 14:19 SirStan mm ../usr/local/src/koha-3.00.02/etc/zebradb/zebra-biblios.cfg 14:19 gmcharlt source is etc/zebradb/zebra-biblios.cfg 14:19 SirStan it isnt 14:19 pianohacker SirStan: That should be installed with the rest of Koha 14:18 gmcharlt SirStan: perl Makefile.PL, make install 14:18 SirStan What causes `/etc/koha/zebradb/zebra-biblios.cfg' to be generated? 14:15 pianohacker Settings for each borrower category are under tools 14:15 pianohacker Through a nightly cronjob 14:15 Snow_Fox how does koha handle overdue notices? 14:15 Snow_Fox hey quick question 14:03 gmcharlt I will be doing a bit more testing before I push them 14:03 gmcharlt atz: re your circ patches, I think the approach is fine 13:11 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: bug me if you need any explanation 13:09 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: yes 12:01 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: Are you working on reconciliation ?