Time  Nick        Message
12:28 gmcharlt    good morning
12:31 hdl_laptop  hi gm
13:14 ort9217     hi, anyone in here right now that might be able to answer some questions of mine?
13:15 hdl_laptop  some of us are here.
13:15 ort9217     ok, cool
13:15 ort9217     so i was wondering if its possible to dictate the path of the opac
13:16 ort9217     for example, have it be http://<hostname>/<something i dictate>
13:16 ort9217     and then have some other web service run on the server
13:16 ort9217     and have it serve up /
13:17 ort9217     like, say, mediawiki?
13:17 ort9217     i know with evergreen, it isn't possible
13:17 ort9217     it "totally hijacks apache," so to speak
13:18 ort9217     the best you can do is put some html/php docs in /openils/var/web/otherStuffThatIsntOpac
13:19 ort9217     or else symlink that to some dir elsewhere
13:20 slefmobile  hi all - not tried IRC from pidgin before
13:20 paul_p      hi slefmobile :D
13:20 paul_p      (all: slef is sitting on the chair right from me :D )
13:21 owen        Hi slefmobile and paul_p. Where are you guys?
13:21 slefmobile  openlibraries.eu London event
13:21 slefmobile  I beat paul_p at typing
13:21 paul_p      :D
13:21 slefmobile  noisy venue at lunch, so with my French and his English => hopeless
13:23 gmcharlt    ort9217: with some Apache config work, you can server other apps off of the same virtual host that serves the Koha OPAC
13:23 slefmobile  paul_p just got picked out as koha's RM in reply by a PTFS developer to a question
13:23 gmcharlt    PTFS seems a bit out of date :)
13:23 slefmobile  to be frank, I'd be going slightly crimson with irritation if I hadn't seen it all before
13:24 slefmobile  lots of slightly-wrong info being disseminated
13:24 slefmobile  South West Wales Higher Ed Partnership introducing the Virtual Academic Library now.. might or might not be anything to do with us
13:24 gmcharlt    ort9217: and you can probably mod_rewrite your way into having a http://<hostname>/<whatever you want> for the OPAC, but there will still be a lot of links to /cgi-bin/koha/foo
13:25 slefmobile  You could overcome that with mod_proxy_html but it really is tons simpler to use a few extra VirtualHosts
13:26 slefmobile  (sorry I missed the start of the Q)
13:26 slefmobile  just remembered how to connect to slef... brbr
13:27 slef        aha
13:32 slef        well that stopped the conversation... even paul_p put his laptop down now
13:45 owen        I wonder if this is an example of Bug 3219? http://acpl.kohalibrary.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=208592
13:45 owen        ...and I wonder if there's any way to tell without seeing the log?
13:48 gmcharlt    owen: possibly - twiddling the Amazon syspref would probably answer
13:54 owen        Hmmm...that was weird. The only thing that changed when I turned off Amazon content was that I was prompted to download the Perl script instead of just getting nothing.
13:56 slef        owen: that means the script crashed with 0 bytes output most times
13:56 slef        was a particular pain during 2.2 for us
13:56 slef        see if you get a 0-byte download
13:57 slef        about to put laptop to sleep again now
13:57 owen        I get a file full of junk characters
13:58 slef        oh wow
13:58 slef        file /path/to/downloaded/file
13:58 slef        does that give a clue?
13:59 slef        anyway, it sounds like a bug... also check opac-error_log
14:00 slef        question for the assembled throng: should I suggest that OpenLibraries become a democratic foundation for open source library software?
14:00 slef        I call myself MJ but it is still a bit freaky sitting in a presentation discussing MARC a lot
14:01 gmcharlt    slef: http://www.openlibraries.eu/?
14:01 slef        Uni Strathclyde want to launch professional development course in Koha
14:02 slef        gmcharlt: aye
14:02 slef        gmcharlt: PTFS + Ken Chad Consulting event vehicle at the moment
14:02 gmcharlt    slef: do you have any expectation that such a suggestion would be taken seriously?
14:02 slef        gmcharlt: expect the worst, hope for the best
14:03 slef        gmcharlt: (in other words no, based on how happily my last email suggesting opening it up was received)
14:03 gmcharlt    slef: or tweak people's noses with the best of them? ;)
14:03 slef        gmcharlt: but pearls are formed from repetitive irritation
14:04 owen        Tell that to my shoes.
14:04 slef        and I have no idea whether I'm joking there
14:04 gmcharlt    slef: go for it, but a practical basis for a foundation is more likely an existing pan-EU library org whose membership is actual libraries
14:07 slef        after this Uni Strathclyde session, there's an Ex Libris person, then Talis, then Q+As
14:08 gmcharlt    slef: besides Koha, did Strathclyde announces courses for any other FOSS library software?
14:09 slef        gmcharlt: not as I understood it, but I'm trying to answer customer emails at the same time. Will ask later (I have contacts but not customers at Strathclyde already IIRC0
14:10 slef        hehehe we've got a Director of Marketing now, whose second slide was legal small print clicked through faster than anyone can read... given what Mike(?) from indexdata said in his presentation this AM, bet she regrests that
14:12 slef        gar... do I suspend the laptop now or hope that I can get a power-point on the train home?
14:16 ort9217     hrmmm... anyone get an answer to my question earlier?
14:17 gmcharlt    [09:23]  <gmcharlt> ort9217: with some Apache config work, you can server other apps off of the same virtual host that serves the Koha OPAC
14:17 gmcharlt    [09:24]  <gmcharlt> ort9217: and you can probably mod_rewrite your way into having a http://<hostname>/<whatever you want> for the OPAC, but there will still be a lot of links to /cgi-bin/koha/foo
14:17 gmcharlt    [09:25]  <slefmobile> You could overcome that with mod_proxy_html but it really is tons simpler to use a few extra VirtualHosts
14:17 gmcharlt    [09:26]  <slefmobile> (sorry I missed the start of the Q)
14:18 gmcharlt    trying again
14:18 gmcharlt    [09:23]  <gmcharlt> ort9217: with some Apache config work, you can server other apps off of the same virtual host that serves the Koha OPAC
14:18 gmcharlt    [09:24]  <gmcharlt> ort9217: and you can probably mod_rewrite your way into having a http://<hostname>/<whatever you want> for the OPAC, but there will still be a lot of links to /cgi-bin/koha/foo
14:18 gmcharlt    [09:25]  <slefmobile> You could overcome that with mod_proxy_html but it really is tons simpler to use a few extra VirtualHosts
14:18 gmcharlt    [09:26]  <slefmobile> (sorry I missed the start of the Q)
14:19 ort9217     alright, thanks, gmcharlt
14:19 ort9217     is this channel logged anywhere?
14:19 slef        wiki.koha.org/#irc has a link
14:19 slef        OTTOMH
14:20 slef        ok detaching for a few hours or more
14:20 gmcharlt    cya
14:20 owen        I'll be interested to hear more about the day slef
14:23 kf          owen: I like your new software-icon! we use the bridge icon set in our current opac - may I replace the old floppy disc with your new software icon?
14:26 ort9217     gmcharlt: actually, would you mind elaborating a bit?
14:26 ort9217     as someone who isn't really an apache whiz, how much googlking around would that take to implement?
14:26 gmcharlt    ort9217: some - the default vhost config that comes with Koha includes some examples of mod_rewrite
14:27 owen        kf, I'm not sure what you mean by replace?
14:27 ort9217     and by 'someone who isn't really an apache whiz,' i mean 'someone who would need to look up almost every one of the technical terms relating specifically to apache in your explanation'
14:27 ort9217     like an hour?
14:27 ort9217     20 mins?
14:29 ort9217     gmcharlt?
14:29 gmcharlt    probably a bit longer than an hour if you're starting from scratch with no knowledge of Apache
14:29 gmcharlt    and I'm sorry, but I don't have time at the moment to walk you through it
14:29 gmcharlt    perhaps others on channel can help
14:30 ort9217     i can (and have) follow simple instructions, so i guess im familiar with the locations and syntax of certain a2 config & log files, but thats about it
14:31 ort9217     i just dont have any /understanding/ per se of what goes on
14:32 kf          owen: display software-icon instead of floppy disc - but not in Koha, but our current opac
14:32 ort9217     (when it has to do with apache, i'm plenty knowledgable about other technical topics)
14:33 owen        kf: the new icons were created by a Koha-using library based on the original set, found here: http://apps.carleton.edu/campus/library/bridge_icons/
14:33 owen        I committed them on their behalf.
14:33 ort9217     gmcharlt, do you know of any good resources that i can start with, to learn the basic paradigm of how things work in apache?
14:33 kf          owen: so they are still free to use
14:34 owen        yes, of course!
14:34 kf          owen: I just wanted to make sure, because they are not listed on the project page yet.
14:35 owen        gmcharlt: Note on the link above for the Bridge icons that they require attribution, and we don't have any mechanism for that
14:35 kf          owen: and we have a link to the project page in the opac - ouf course
14:35 gmcharlt    owen: is attribution via an about page sufficient?
14:35 gmcharlt    or does it require a link on every page that displays the icons
14:36 owen        I'm not sure,but it's the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License
14:36 owen        Their page says simply "you must provide attribution on your site"
14:37 owen        I guess what we need then is an About page for the OPAC
14:37 wizzyrea    ort: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/ for starters
14:37 gmcharlt    sounds like it
14:39 ort9217     wizzyrea: i've tried poking around a little on the official website, but you end up having to piece stuff together, much like technical information on wikipedia
14:40 ort9217     its like a reference book, but what i'm looking for is more of a beginner's tutorial
14:40 ort9217     any others?
14:41 slef        there's a guide in the apache docs as well as the ref man
14:43 ort9217     btw, this is sooo awesome
14:43 ort9217     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
14:43 ort9217     and thanks, i'm about to check it out
14:47 gmcharlt    owen: agreed re about page for OPAC
14:48 schuster    Clarification needed on the "sounds" patch that is coming...
14:49 schuster    Will that be part of 3.2 with the Java circ pieces or earlier?
14:49 schuster    Sounds at checkin that is.
14:49 gmcharlt    schuster: most likely
14:52 ort9217     alright, thanks for the help, all... i'm out
14:59 slef        who from koha is working on jangle?
15:00 gmcharlt    slef: I'm not sure if anybody is actively working on it
15:00 gmcharlt    biblibre, maybe, if they're playing with it in conjunction with their SOPAC work
15:00 gmcharlt    it's something that's on my (long) backburner list to look into eventually
15:03 slef        ok
15:55 pianohacker morning
16:00 gmcharlt    hi pianohacker
16:00 pianohacker hello
16:00 pianohacker Do you have a little bit of time to talk about an architecture problem?
16:01 gmcharlt    sure
16:05 pianohacker Okay
16:05 pianohacker Working on a project to set hold fees by itype
16:06 pianohacker adding a 'reservefee' column to issuingrules was a possibility, but it would mean that three different kinds of rules would be in the same table
16:07 pianohacker What would you think of splitting issuingrules into two tables, issuingrules and finerules, and adding a new table, holdrules? This would involve that UNIQUE hack I discussed a while back, but could theoretically work
16:09 gmcharlt    pianohacker: please look at this http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:rfcs3.2:rfc32_circ_policies
16:09 gmcharlt    regarding adding reservefee to issuingrules as a starting point
16:09 gmcharlt    I don't actually have a problem with that
16:10 gmcharlt    as thus far the interpretation of checkout rules & fine rules by branch/itype/patron category hasn't been a problem
16:10 pianohacker This idea does sound good
16:10 gmcharlt    since the table doesn't have bunches of longtext columns
16:10 gmcharlt    adding columns isn't a big cost
16:11 gmcharlt    better *naming* of the columns may be called for, of course
16:11 pianohacker One would hope :)
16:13 gmcharlt    afk, bbiab
19:08 slef        on the train home after http://softwarecoop.posterous.com/paddington - guess paul_p will be airborne now
19:10 slef        that's a crazy station building but so few people stop to see it
19:17 owen        How was the rest of the day slef?
19:20 slef        a little better and a good chat with paul_p but the event didn't finish brilliantly for me
19:20 slef        they didn't take Q+As about openlibraries - preferred to finish earlier
19:21 slef        I'm about to go into Box Tunnel, so I'm signing off again in a tick
19:21 slef        back in 2 or 3 hours
19:22 slef        (rther - I'll fall off the network in a tick)
19:34 hdl_laptop1 gmcharlt: I juste sent to you some patches which includes the refactoring engaged on C4/Members.pm and C4/Suggestion.pm
19:37 gmcharlt    hdl_laptop1: got them
19:58 pianohacker Does "branch" being verboten apply to cronjob options and usage messages?
19:59 gmcharlt    batch job messages and options are still part of the UI, so we should be consistent with the 'library' usage where possible
19:59 chris       morning
20:00 gmcharlt    hi chris
20:00 chris       course in the en_NZ translation it says libraries or branches in a lot of places now :)
20:01 chris       but yeah id go with the default saying just library
20:02 brendan     heya #koha
20:02 pianohacker Hi
20:02 chris       hey there brendan
20:03 brendan     afternoon - pianohacker, chris, gmcharlt
20:03 gmcharlt    hi brendan
20:04 chris       owen: hows being back at work going?
20:04 slef        moo
20:04 owen        I can't tell which is busier, home or work
20:05 chris       heh, probably home :)
20:05 slef        marc
20:05 pianohacker slef: "245 $a Milk /" ?
20:06 rhcl        slef: whats the G.W.R. Paddington building?
20:07 slef        marc21 authorities
20:07 slef        bloody tunnels
20:08 slef        rhcl: train station
20:08 rhcl        ah, ic
20:08 slef        in london for trains to west country
20:09 wizzyrea    gmcharlt: where do you set the global default for the messaging settings?
20:09 wizzyrea    (I think I"m looking right past it)
20:09 slef        and south wales and cotswolds and thames valley
20:10 gmcharlt    wizzyrea: no such thing - defaults are per patron category
20:10 wizzyrea    Ah so there is no global default gotya
20:11 slef        back in Somerset now. ergo the disconnects
20:11 wizzyrea    er, global default is 'no messaging"
20:11 gmcharlt    wizzyrea: yeah, hardcoded that way for new and existing patron categories
20:11 wizzyrea    cool, just wanted to make sure
20:11 wizzyrea    thx muchas
20:16 wizzyrea    re: patron import, the CSV file should have the columns for messaging added maybe?
20:17 wizzyrea    good idea? bad idea?
20:17 gmcharlt    in principle, OK
20:17 gmcharlt    not sure how often it would actually be needed
20:17 owen        How would OpenID authentication for the OPAC work? Would you have to first tie an existing OpenID identity to your Koha patron record?
20:18 gmcharlt    owen: pretty much
20:18 wizzyrea    i'll add that to the enhancement bug report just so it's noted for the future. It's not a big deal
20:18 gmcharlt    or rather, the patron can do that
20:18 wizzyrea    just like things to be complete and consistent :P
20:18 gmcharlt    wizzyrea: actually, a separate bug would be better
20:18 wizzyrea    okies
20:18 wizzyrea    will do that
20:19 gmcharlt    otherwise I can't experience the joy of ticking the original one closed ;)
20:19 gmcharlt    owen: basically, it would be a matter of doing *something* to authenticate the patron the first time to Koha
20:20 gmcharlt    but once set up, it does allow the patron to forget whatever PIN or password originally assigned by the library
20:22 wizzyrea    hehe! well I wouldn't want to deny you that glee, gmcharlt
20:26 pianohacker If implemented well, that might actually be very useful
20:27 pianohacker You could advertise it as "use your yahoo password to log in to koha" or some such; I think even my slightly... rural community might get into it
20:27 chris       *nod*
20:29 chris       lenora is gonna file an enhancement at bugs.koha.org
20:29 gmcharlt    cool
20:30 gmcharlt    although I wonder to what extent OpenIDs are actually used outside of early adopters and school and university systems
20:31 gmcharlt    in any event, marketing it as "fewer passwords to remember" may be slightly better than "use your foo password to log into the catalog"
20:31 chris       yeah but if you can get said early adopters and school and uni students using your public library
20:31 chris       win win win
20:32 pianohacker And there is work being done on the UI side of it: http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Google_s_New_Design_Helps_Eliminate_OpenID_Confusion
20:32 gmcharlt    as the latter can turn into (a) people reading that statement too literally or (b) wondering if the library is going to be able to check their Yahoo mail or the like
20:33 chris       yep, you can have an how do this work link
20:33 chris       where you explain its openid for those who are curious
20:33 chris       but market it as less passwords to remember
20:33 chris       how do this work ... good england there
20:34 gmcharlt    don't blame an entire country for your typing, chris ;)
20:36 chris       they shouldnt have colonised nz if they didnt want to get the blame :)
20:55 chris       morning jo
20:55 Jo          good morning Chris
21:02 gmcharlt    chris: do you have any examples or screenshots of what catalogue/dictionary.pl and opac/opac-dictionary.pl where supposed to do?
21:02 chris       nope
21:02 chris       i have no idea what they are
21:03 gmcharlt    well, at the moment nonfunctional
21:03 gmcharlt    and have been that way since 2.2.x
21:03 chris       git blame tells me paul might know
21:03 chris       not something i have ever looked at
21:06 Jo          The proposed new enhancement proposed for automatic credit refund of a lost book which turns up ... we have this working now in 2.9.
21:06 chris       2.2.9 :)
21:06 Jo          it must have been dropped out in 3.0 but shouldn't be that hard to resurrect should it Chris?
21:06 Jo          oops ... 2.2.9
21:06 chris       nothing is that hard :)
21:06 chris       its just a matter of resource
21:07 Jo          cool. and we will have to find that resource then because we do want it.
21:07 chris       yay!
21:07 Jo          yay!
21:07 Jo          the bug is asking for co-funders.
21:07 Jo          someone might even go in with us!
21:14 schuster    Enhancement process at work!  There may be someone out there that has already funded it too - that's part of the problem we don't know who is doing what at the moment.
21:16 Jo          Schuster: its an old old standard feature from Koha 2.x
21:17 Jo          we;ve had it for at least 8 years I would think.
21:21 schuster    Well it's gone now!  #3.0.x
21:22 schuster    So is the spelling helper in pac gone.
21:22 chris       the fines have changed in 3.0 (the way they are stored) and are changing again for the better for 3.2 so we would need to do a bit of work to make it work properly
21:22 chris       but certainly doable
21:22 schuster    I thought I would start with that enhancement and then work my way down the list.
21:23 schuster    That is also part of the problem with 3.2 who is sponsoring what - some of this may be covered already but only a developer would know.
21:23 chris       sounds good, if they are in bugzilla then they wont get missed
21:23 schuster    (the developer working on it that is...)
21:23 chris       *nod*
21:23 schuster    Yep and then we wouldn't have 3 people working on similar problems... waisting those valuable programming minutes!
21:29 wizzyrea    Schuster ++
21:29 wizzyrea    verra naiiice
21:30 schuster    Off to ponder other enhancements and how we can get more done with less time!
21:32 pianohacker bye
03:19 Amit        hi brendan, chris, mason
03:19 Amit        good morning
03:19 brendan     heya amit
03:30 Jo          hiya Amit
03:31 Amit        hi Jo
04:37 chris       any liblimers about?
05:46 elwell      ... or any biblibrians?
05:46 elwell      wondered if they were attending http://2009.linuxdays.ch/
05:47 elwell      seems to have a bit of a public admin / education slant. Course, I haven't looked at the cost of attending yet
06:20 chris       nicomo: did you see what elwell posted?
06:20 chris       http://liblime.com/ <--- work for anyone?
06:22 elwell      chris: not for me earlier
06:22 elwell      502 (ditto with www.)
06:25 chris       ywah
06:26 chris       been done for a while now
06:27 chris       done=down
06:30 nicomo      hi all, hi chris and elwell
06:30 nicomo      chris: what as it you wanted me to see?
06:31 chris       ah the conference in switzerland
06:32 chris       http://2009.linuxdays.ch/
06:36 nicomo      we won't be there
06:36 nicomo      but i didn't know this conf existed
06:36 nicomo      and it's about 2 hrs train for me from Lyon
06:36 nicomo      next year maybe
06:37 elwell      yeah - somewhat late notice I guess for this ye
06:38 nicomo      yep, I have stuff scheduled for these dates already
06:38 nicomo      but then i probably should have spotted this conf earlier myself
06:38 nicomo      chris: "I personally think that internal storage is irrelevant, ie we dont need to
06:38 nicomo      store the records in MARC format. As long as we can import from and export
06:38 nicomo      to MARC record format."
06:39 nicomo      ++ to that (2001)
06:39 nicomo      problem is : whan the RFP requires that the system be internally in Marc,
06:39 nicomo      what is one supposed to do?
06:39 nicomo      Convince the library that their request is really irrelevant? :-)
06:40 chris       yeah, tell them to get off the drugs :-)
06:40 chris       i know what you mean though, sometimes you have to do things you know are stupid, to meet what a client thinks they need
06:41 chris       doesnt mean you have to like it though :-)
06:52 nicomo      right : and i don't
06:52 nicomo      but then I see national libraries and such thinking about RDA and I put my head in the sand
06:54 chris       yeah
07:41 chris       right that's kahu asleep
07:44 kf          morning chris
07:49 hdl_laptop  hi chris
07:50 chris       hi kf and hdl_laptop
08:14 kf          hi there, I m doing some research atm how to handle records catalogued in German and Hebrew using field 880
08:15 kf          I need to get those 880 fields displayed and searchable, but not sure if its necessary to move them out of 880 to 9xx fields or if I can import them just as they are
08:18 soul9       so you want zebra to index 880?
08:19 soul9       doesn't look like 880 is used in either unimarc or marc21, so you'll need to customize /etc/zebradb/marc_defs/marc21/biblios/record.abs or /etc/zebradb/marc_defs/unimarc/biblios/record.abs
08:20 kf          yes, but I think its more difficult than that
08:23 soul9       after that i guess you have to add it to a framework
08:26 kf          my problem is, that I want to integrate it
08:26 kf          so 880 //245... can be searched in title index
08:27 kf          and 880 footnotes in footnotes... etc.
08:28 kf          and I must change xslt-files for opac-display
08:28 kf          wondering if this is something other libraries might be interested too
08:38 Hui_Nan_    hi all
08:38 Hui_Nan_    after make install I run git status
08:38 Hui_Nan_    it says
08:38 Hui_Nan_    # On branch 3.0.x
08:38 Hui_Nan_    # Untracked files:
08:38 Hui_Nan_    #   (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)
08:38 Hui_Nan_    #
08:38 Hui_Nan_    #       Makefile
08:38 Hui_Nan_    #       blib/
08:38 Hui_Nan_    #       pm_to_blib
08:38 Hui_Nan_    #       t/test-config.txt
08:39 Hui_Nan_    should not all these files be in .git/.gitignore?
08:41 Hui_Nan_    .git/info/.gitignore
08:41 Hui_Nan_    of course
08:43 slef        probably should be
08:44 slef        gmcharlt: whoever else: liblime.com seems down 502 Bad Gateway
08:44 slef        gmcharlt: owen: facebook starting to allow OpenID logins AIUI
08:45 chris       slef: its been down for a while, ... and did you see the enhancement request to allow ppl to authenticate to the opac via OpenID ?
08:50 hdl_laptop  kf: everything you neeed, you can propose the community.
08:50 hdl_laptop  koha-patches list is open
08:52 kf          hdl: propose?
08:53 chris       kf: i think it would be something other libraries would be interested in, and i think hdl is suggesting you write a mail to koha-devel, or koha-patches .. or make a page on the wiki with the idea and see if others are interested
08:58 kf          ok
09:09 hdl_laptop  kf
09:09 hdl_laptop  in fact : you can open a bug on bugzilla
09:09 hdl_laptop  and propose that as enhancement.
09:10 hdl_laptop  And if you happen to make the change in your code, you can then make a patch out of it and either send it on koha-patches
09:10 kf          but first I have to do a little bit more research
09:10 hdl_laptop  or attach it to the bug
09:13 kf          got example data today, will try to import it later :)
11:51 Hui_Nan_    could anyone say how to format-patch of the last 3 commits?
11:53 soul9       git format-patch firstrev..lastrev
11:53 Hui_Nan_    ok
11:54 gmcharlt    git format-patch HEAD^^^ # lot's of options :)
11:54 Hui_Nan_    I didn't noticed an '..' operator $-)
11:54 Hui_Nan_    thank you!
11:59 Hui_Nan_    huh, the first three patches!
11:59 Hui_Nan_    $-)