Time  Nick        Message
12:44 nahuel_     wake up all !
12:44 nahuel_     it's time to wake uuup !
12:45 cait        hi nahuel
12:45 nahuel_     hi cait
12:45 cait        dev weekend starts now?
12:45 nahuel_     Well before we need some big breakfast
12:45 nahuel_     after yesterday night alcohol :p
12:45 cait         :)
12:45 cait        how was the baseball game?
12:45 nahuel_     really interesting
12:46 nahuel_     (and strange:p)
12:46 nahuel_     but funny
12:46 cait        g
12:47 nahuel_     what about you?
12:48 cait        sitting on couch and waiting for texas to wake up ;)
12:48 cait        hope I can be at kohacon next year
12:48 nahuel_     hehe
12:48 nahuel_     Me too :)
12:48 cait        followed twitter and flickr and blogs... really wanted to get some info about new acq - but heard only that its awesome...  :)
12:49 nahuel_     ahah
12:49 nahuel_     I think you can ask paul and soul9 some more informations
12:49 cait        i have to try that
12:49 cait        and I still hope the session was recorded
12:50 nahuel_     I think it was
12:50 cait        nice to hear that
12:50 cait         :)
12:50 nahuel_     you should ask to david for records
12:51 cait        hope they will get online soon, but I think everybody will need a little time to recover :)
12:52 nahuel_     I think yes
12:52 nahuel_     well it's the breakfast time
12:53 cait         :)
12:53 cait        see you later then
12:53 nahuel_     see ya
13:08 nengard     good morning #koha
13:14 gmcharlt    good morning
13:18 k12linux    'mornin
13:19 k12linux    the KohaCon 2009 developer meeting has begun
13:19 k12linux    :)
13:23 k12linux    First notable quote of the day, "Oh come on computer!"
13:29 nengard     adding more chairs to the meeting for for dev meeting :)
13:33 chris       morning
13:38 jdavidb     nengard: If you get out of that fluffy chair, owen is liable to take it.  Better watch him close.  ;-)
13:38 nengard     jdavidb: thanks for the tip :)
13:39 owen        I'm more likely to be jumping up... as soon as the coffee arrives
13:39 k12linux    Coffee is in the back of the room
13:41 gmcharlt    starting introductions
13:41 gmcharlt    people here
13:41 gmcharlt    thd (Thomas Dukleth)
13:42 gmcharlt    nengard (Nicole Engard)
13:42 gmcharlt    chris (Chris Cormack)
13:42 owen        Did you see how I skipped introduction there ? ;)
13:43 nengard     owen we'll come back to you :)
13:43 gmcharlt    owen: very clever
13:43 gmcharlt    danny (Danny Bouman)
13:43 gmcharlt    Cory Jaeger
13:44 gmcharlt    pianohacker (Jesse Weaver)
13:44 gmcharlt    paul_p (Paul Poulain)
13:45 gmcharlt    jwagner (Jane Wagner)
13:45 gmcharlt    jdavid (David Bavousett)
13:48 gmcharlt    Dave Goldfind (sp?)
13:48 LibDave     is Dave Goldfein (with correct spelling)
13:48 caj         Goldfein
13:48 gmcharlt    LibDave (thanks and apologies)
13:48 gmcharlt    Agnes
13:49 gmcharlt    owen (Owen Leonard)
13:52 gmcharlt    BWS Johnson
13:52 caj         gmcharlt (Galen Charlton)
13:55 caj         Proposed topics...
13:56 caj         decision process for patch conflict resolution
13:56 caj         tips&tricks
13:56 caj         intro to hacking koha
13:56 caj         git
13:57 caj         bug severity & priority
13:58 caj         -- into to koha hacking and submitting patches
13:58 caj         thd volunteered pual_p to present
14:00 caj         can someone familiar with Koha take over notes... I'd like to concentrate on this part
14:01 jdavidb     I got it, caj.
14:02 jdavidb     unless someone else wants to, natch.  :)
14:02 owen        Hey Sharon_, get home okay?
14:03 Sharon_     Howdy Owen, an hour delay, but was home by midnight
14:03 gmcharlt    atz (Joe Atzberger) arrived
14:03 gmcharlt    paul_p is now giving an introduction to Koha's structure for new developers
14:06 jdavidb     (except you, nengard.  you have to pay attention.)
14:08 pianohacker brb breakfast
14:16 brendan     Goodmoring #koha and dev's
14:17 chris       hey brendan
14:18 gmcharlt    hi brendan
14:22 nahuel_     hi hi
14:23 cait        good morning
14:23 pianohacker morning cait
14:24 cait        :)
14:29 gmcharlt    hi cait
14:30 gmcharlt    pianohacker: or C4::Koha
14:30 gmcharlt    sysprefs are a good place to try out an OO framework
14:30 nahuel_     pianohacker, it's seems to be great in C4::Context...
14:30 gmcharlt    yeah, I meant C4::Context
14:30 nahuel_     well there is the "preference()" function
14:31 pianohacker Context is probably the lesser of two mishmashes
14:34 nahuel_     chris, great !
14:39 nahuel_     which can be the name about the different ways to calculate renews ?
14:39 nahuel_     RenewCalculation?
14:46 eiro        hello guies ...
14:47 eiro        is Moose entering in koha ? (galen talked about a OO framework)
14:47 gmcharlt    hi eiro it's being considered
14:47 gmcharlt    far from decided
14:48 gmcharlt    there's a growing consensus that an OO framework would be useful
14:48 gmcharlt    does need more discussion
14:48 nahuel      hi eiro !
14:48 gmcharlt    Moose is an example
14:48 nahuel      paul_p means : KISS concept :)
14:48 nahuel      Keep It Simple and Stupid
14:48 gmcharlt    but we'd need to decide which framework to use
14:48 nahuel      :)
14:48 nahuel      gmcharlt++
14:48 nahuel      gmcharlt, are you agree with my syspref name ?
14:49 eiro        i played with lot of them (did Joe told you about you discution in providence ?)
14:49 gmcharlt    nahuel: which syspref?
14:49 eiro        http://descartes.biblibre.com/koha_future.pdf
14:49 nahuel      eiro, <nahuel_> RenewCalculation?
14:49 gmcharlt    eiro: he gave me a summary
14:50 eiro        that was the slides i used
14:50 nahuel      gmcharlt, about the renew calculation
14:50 nahuel      if we use "today" or "datedue"
14:50 eiro        the pb with koha is the CGI mode! please don't choose moose as long as we can't do without it
14:51 eiro        concider Mouse or Coat instead
14:51 eiro        adn definilty: KiokuDB beats every (perl)? orm !
14:52 gmcharlt    nahuel: I suggest RenewDueDateMethod (or RenewDueDateBasis)
14:52 nahuel      ok
14:52 nahuel      let's go for this
14:52 eiro        (for koha at least)
14:52 eiro        http://www.tinybox.net/content/happy-about-sqhelp
14:53 nahuel      heu
14:53 nahuel      what's this eiro ?
14:53 nahuel      it's an orm example ?
14:54 eiro        no: the article in wich i explained why ORMs sucks in koha
14:54 eiro        s/in/for
14:54 nahuel      ho ok
14:54 nahuel      :)
14:55 nahuel      but what's sqhelp ?
14:55 eiro        and SQHelp is the helper i initially wrote for koha to let us time to choose the way to abstract persistance
14:56 eiro        gmcharlt didn't want it but i use it for my own usage and i love it
14:57 eiro        (it's not as easy to use as an ORM but it drops tons of LOC)
14:57 nahuel      LOC ?
14:57 eiro        lines of codes
14:57 nahuel      oh i think this is not important :) mr oneliner :)
14:57 nahuel      just be working
14:58 nahuel      and easy to do
14:58 nahuel      (my point of view:) )
14:58 eiro        it's very important for one reason: as we centralize the access in some libs , we can debug anywhere
14:58 nahuel      the number of lines is not the big problem
14:58 nahuel      of course :)
14:59 nahuel      but the problem is the architecture, not the number of lines
14:59 nahuel      s/number/count/
14:59 eiro        please see that the fact to use mysql_lastid everywhere in the code makes the things painfull to port to another dbms
14:59 nahuel      well :)
14:59 nahuel      we must une an orm :)
14:59 nahuel      use
15:00 nahuel      we're agree :)
15:00 eiro        no ... we're not :)
15:00 nahuel      tss
15:00 eiro        but do what you want: i don't give a shit anymore :->
15:00 nahuel      tsss
15:01 nahuel      give your point of view!
15:01 eiro        i did ... lot of times :)
15:02 nahuel      :)
15:02 nahuel      "just do it :)"
15:02 eiro        the first important and big step for me would be to try to port koha to a MVC framework in order to deal with a modern way to communicate with a httpd
15:03 eiro        "koha is slow" ? guess why ? 3 letters ...
15:03 eiro        C . G . I .
15:04 eiro        so ... WE for me ...
15:04 eiro        cya all and good coding party
15:04 nahuel      hehe
15:05 nahuel      eiro, don't think it's cgi
15:05 nahuel      :)
15:05 nahuel      too much session deals
15:05 nahuel      too much sql requests
15:05 nahuel      too much js and external files
15:05 eiro        that's the only part of the pb!
15:06 eiro        we're bad on dealing with sessions and MVC frameworks does it well
15:06 nahuel      yep
15:06 nahuel      of course
15:06 nahuel      :)
15:06 nahuel      it's done for this
15:06 nahuel      (and a lot of other stuffs)
15:07 eiro        no maintained env. no bytecoded
15:09 eiro        it's time consumming create an complete env for a CGI. that's one of the reason php bet perl in late 1990: because lot for perl programmers continues to use cgis as php when php can bytecode the sources and share mysql pools between requets
15:09 eiro        2009: koha still does it!
15:10 chris       of course those some php programmers used global variables and all got hacked, so we dont want to do that part of copying php :-)
15:10 nahuel      ahah
15:10 nahuel      it was only bad php devs
15:11 nahuel      you can do the same in perl
15:11 nahuel      in python
15:11 nahuel      in java
15:11 nahuel      and any other language
15:11 eiro        sharing mysql pools is one of the part that are now used by every langages
15:12 nahuel      :)
15:12 eiro        nahuel, sure! but only in a kept alive env ... so not in CGI
15:30 caj         php made it easy for bad coders to code web apps... hence more crackable php sites in general
15:36 jdavidb     As a side note to the browser-compat discussion, has there been much attention at all to accessibility?    I suspect the OPAC would only marginally pass current section 508 requirements.
15:38 nahuel      caj, because it's easy to set up in shared hosting
15:38 nahuel      not because the language is easy
15:58 chris       hi nicomo
15:58 nicomo      hi chris
15:58 nicomo      how's the coughing?
15:59 nicomo      (sad tell of the internet that i know here and now (saturday 6pm france)
15:59 nicomo      that you're coughing in TX saturday what? 11am?
16:04 chris       hehe yes
16:04 chris       too much talking
16:06 paul_p      hi nicomo
16:06 nicomo      hi paul_p
16:20 nengard     oops - how did I close this?
16:20 nengard     I'm back :)
16:20 nengard     jdavidb - procede with picking on me
16:33 jdavidb     nengard:  with pleasure.
16:34 jdavidb     nengard:  remember how dead-slow my Eee was yesterday?   been working on it--much better, and Koha is making on it right now.
16:34 nengard     jdavidb: awesomeness
16:54 paul_p      nahuel: didn't you do something about : http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=813 ?
16:55 nahuel      paul_p, no I don't add the shelves comments
16:55 nahuel      didn't
16:55 nahuel      should I ?
16:57 nahuel      http://laconi.ca/trac/ <= open source twitter like (it's better to be independant from third parts :))
17:00 jdavidb     nengard, chris:  got koha running on the EEE with Easy Peasy 1.0 (Ubuntu Intrepid, on a diet)  very much faster than the thumb drive VM
17:03 paul_p      jdavidb: and it's fast enough to be useable ? wow, I never thought it could work !
17:03 pianohacker Quite nice
17:03 pianohacker Do you happen to have a toaster?
17:04 jdavidb     paul_p:  very much so.  snag me at a break and come play with it.  Insert yourself as a patron or something; there's nothing in there right now.
17:04 jdavidb     pianohacker:  no, I don
17:04 paul_p      lol: @all = "you know you're a geek when you chat with someone in the same room as you :D"
17:04 jdavidb     don't, even.
17:06 chris       :)
17:24 owen        Looking at Bug 3132: When adding a guarantor for a professional patron should we show the "relationship" choice? This has to be the same for Professionals and Child patrons, so they'd be very different options
17:25 owen        Or is the relationship between professional patron and organization understood?
17:26 jdavidb     owne:  I would think that's pretty intuitive, but not necessarily a *given.*  Consider the case of a federal employee vs contractor.  See them in the hall (or at the circ desk) and it would not be obvious.  If it was important, though, they'd be creating different patron categories.
17:27 jdavidb     owen, even....  sheesh.
17:28 nahuel      for information, some people of biblibre are playing with python doing a marc editor, for the moment is just a work in progress project, which enable only to read the marcxml and iso2709 files, but it'll be able to modify/write records, url is : https://launchpad.net/pymarcedit
17:28 owen        jdavidb: Yeah, I was thinking about a similar possibility, like the difference in a university between faculty and staff
17:28 nahuel      for the moment it's just a "proof of concept"
17:28 nahuel      the use interface will be rewrite
17:29 jdavidb     owen:  right.  if they have the same borrow privs, it might be useful, but not crucial, prolly.  If they have different borrow privs, it'll be moot.
17:30 owen        I'm going to leave it out, and leave it up to the person who puts it back in to solve the problem of how to offer different relationship choices to C and P patrons
17:31 jdavidb     owen:  sounds like a plan.
17:55 caj         tabs rawk
19:37 jdavidb     dev meeting restarting:  gmcharlt is wrapping up the git discussion.  Hackfest to follow, I think.
19:53 nengard     hackfest is beginning
19:54 pianohacker (notwitter) Working on the systempreferences editor once again for the KohaCon hackfest
19:56 nahuel      pianohacker, http://identi.ca/ open source twitter like :)
19:56 nahuel      it uses : http://laconi.ca/
19:57 pianohacker Remember reading about that, thanks :)
20:00 nahuel      :)
20:00 nahuel      non-open webapps are bad :p
20:02 jdavidb     Hi, liz_nekls!
20:18 gmcharlt    pushed fix for bug 908 - thanks paul_p
20:18 gmcharlt    pushed fix for bug 918 - thanks paul_p
20:20 gmcharlt    pushed patch for bug 1545 - thanks chris
20:22 gmcharlt    pushed patch for 3132 - thanks owen
20:45 gmcharlt    pushed patch to batchRepairMissingBiblionumbers - thanks nahuel
21:02 brendan     anybody know of a quick way to show a list of all the bugs in bugzilla
21:02 brendan     may have missed that...
21:04 chris       i just make a saved search of http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Koha&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&deadlinefrom=&deadlineto=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidty
21:05 chris       so you can save that
21:05 chris       in bugzilla mine is "all open bugs"
21:06 brendan     chris that works, thanks
21:10 gmcharlt    pushed patch for bug 946 - thanks paul_p
21:22 gmcharlt    pushed patch for 3102 - thanks brendan
21:33 brendan     gmcharlt on patch 3102 -- should I use your recommendation from bugzilla instead of the patch I sent before...  This deals with "localization" compared to "location"
21:33 brendan     I also vote for location over localization
22:26 owen        dev weekend day 1 winding down... time to find dinner!
22:27 pianohacker definitely dinnertime
23:17 gmcharlt    brendan: go ahead and send a patch using "Location" - note that I've already pushed your first 3102 patch
23:17 brendan     Ok will do thanks gmcharlt
01:19 chris       back from dinner
04:25 chris       evening nahuel, good dinner?
04:25 nahuel      chris, !
04:25 nahuel      hey
04:25 nahuel      where are you ?
04:25 chris       in my room
04:25 nahuel      I think it was the best dinner I had in texas !
04:25 chris       ohh cool, where did you go?
04:25 nahuel      And it was the better steack I didn't eat for a long time
04:25 nahuel      in a great steack house in dallas
04:26 chris       excellent
04:26 nahuel      it was expensive
04:26 nahuel      but really really really good
04:26 brendan     it was a good dinner, nahuel
04:26 brendan     hey chris
04:26 nahuel      yes
04:26 chris       hey brendan
04:26 nahuel      a really great
04:26 nahuel      one
04:26 brendan     one of the best steaks I've ever had
04:26 nahuel      me too
04:27 nahuel      and the evening was pretty cool
04:27 chris       darn, sounds like i picked the wrong night to go shopping
04:27 nahuel      like yesterday night
04:27 nahuel      :)
04:27 nahuel      héhé
04:27 nahuel      chris, you've still tomorow
04:27 brendan     ah -- nothing is better than live baseball
04:27 chris       heh
04:27 nahuel      huhu
04:28 chris       http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2009/04/19/librarians-developers-steaks-baseball-and-good-friends/
04:28 nahuel      you're wrong :)
04:28 nahuel      there is another one people :)
04:29 brendan     chris what is Korerorero ?
04:29 chris       it means discussion/talking in maori
04:29 brendan     oh course
04:30 brendan     that's seems pretty obvious now
04:30 nahuel      brendan, when are you leaving ?
04:30 brendan     tomorrow around noon (12:00)
04:30 nahuel      ah
04:30 nahuel      you're going to mexico ?
04:30 brendan     new mexico -- the state next to texas
04:31 brendan     to the west of here
04:31 nahuel      aaaah ok
04:31 brendan     texas is probably as big as france
04:31 nahuel      what will you do there ?
04:31 brendan     so basically I'm traveling to another country
04:31 nahuel      just for fun ?
04:31 brendan     visit a friend - and go hiking
04:32 nahuel      cool :)
04:32 brendan     looking for birds too.
04:32 nahuel      you're lucky
04:32 nahuel      I would do the same :)
04:32 nahuel      travel all over the time
04:32 brendan     cool
04:32 brendan     I love to travel, so I agree
04:32 nahuel      but i have not my licence :p
04:32 brendan     ok -- good night all
04:32 chris       good night
04:33 nahuel      well :) good night brendan
04:33 nahuel      see you tomorow so ?
04:33 nahuel      before you leave
04:33 brendan     I could teach you to drive in a few hours nahuel
04:33 nahuel      hahaha
04:33 brendan     the roads are so big and straight here
04:33 nahuel      yes but in france the licence is a little bit hard
04:33 nahuel      harder than in usa to obtain
04:33 brendan     that's because you have to take the test in french ;)
04:34 nahuel      ahah
04:34 nahuel      well you're driving well
04:34 brendan     thanks
04:34 nahuel      ahah
04:34 nahuel      good night brendan
04:34 nahuel      see you tomorow
04:34 nahuel      and good night others
04:35 nahuel      I'm going to sleeeep
04:35 brendan     good night nahuel chris and all others
04:35 nahuel      :)
04:35 nahuel      too tired
04:35 chris       yep me too, cya in the morning
04:38 nahuel      see ya
09:02 Samuray     hi
11:55 tajoli      I'm tring to use IRC as first time
11:56 tajoli      But I leave because is too early in Texas