Time Nick Message 11:40 nengard celebrate software freedom day: http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/archives/129 10:41 chris have a good afternoon and happy hacking :) 10:41 paul sweet dreams 10:41 paul bye chris 10:32 mc good appetite all: i go for lunch 10:32 mc (i was young rugbyman) 10:31 mc i remember that i was a child the first time my father told me to see the aka! i was really scarred about black shirts after that 10:30 chris tana umaga .. he is from wellington too 10:30 chris they already have the ex captain of the all blacks as their coach :) 10:30 mc toulon will learn the aka ? 10:30 mc an all black in france! cool! 10:29 paul lol 10:29 chris (the bonus of working on a newspaper site, i have to read the news hehe) 10:29 chris http://stuff.co.nz/4644128a1823.html 10:29 paul mc: I don't think so : http://www.rugby-stream.fr/Rugby/Clubs-de-Pro-D2/Toulon/RC-Toulon-Un-pilier-kiwi-en-renfort_9_49_128_48961.html 10:27 mc chris, don't you think about Toulouse ? 10:27 mc toulon ? 10:26 paul right. Marseille is THE soccer city. And Toulon a Rugby city. 10:25 chris Toulon has been in the news here lots lately, because of the rugby team, and the nzer leaving his rugby league club to go play there 10:25 chris ahhh 10:24 paul chris: no, there is none. Although Marseille is 50km from Toulon 10:15 chris hmm am i right, is there a biblibrio in toulon? 10:13 chris but ill think about that more tomorrow 10:13 chris and add another koha site 10:12 chris then you could do dpkg-reconfigure libkoha-perl 10:12 chris if i do it right 10:11 chris but for now, you can install it and have a single site koha up and running pretty fast 10:10 mc ohh 10:10 mc but i think we (vincent, MJ, ...) have to think about what we could expect from a koha package 10:10 chris next step is writing the preinst file that uses debconf to get values from the user 10:09 mc ok 10:09 mc because i don't handle multiple sites 10:09 chris its just for testing the package 10:09 mc but now i think it's not a good idea 10:09 mc i thought about it when i wrote my automator 10:09 chris at the moment 10:08 mc chris, so you create a default site ? 10:08 chris theres lots that do 10:07 chris as well as linking the config into sites-enabled (before) 10:07 mc i would be quiet furious if i was sysop and if a package install/update restarts my server 10:07 mc ooh ... ok 10:07 chris well, reload 10:06 chris yep 10:06 mc oops ... you restart apache2 in the postinst ? 10:06 mc that's what i propose in my answer on the list 10:05 chris but i would suggest the student works toward creating a uml of how it could work 10:05 mc johnny, don't tell again you like things like python on this chan because logs are public: u'll ruin your carrieer ! 10:04 chris its a good learning experience 10:03 mc abstraction needs design : i spoke about all of it because i'm very afraid for the Zeno's Student 10:02 mc s/abstraction/isolation/ 10:02 mc - Easier way to organize the code (even the templates, using vmethods, wrappers, ... ) 10:01 mc (so less bugs) 10:01 mc - use of existing wheels: less code 10:01 mc - better abstraction 10:00 mc why i dream about catalyst/TT2: 09:55 chris yep 09:52 mc another problem is that it's almost impossible to do simple things with simple ways with those java frameworks 09:52 mc sure 09:51 mc yep 09:51 chris and it still wont get finished 09:51 mc but the problem is that you need some 10 years java developpers to do so 09:50 mc because those tools doesn't exists in perl 09:50 mc that's not right when you correctly use some java frameworks with very powerfull concepts as annotations 09:49 chris heh 09:49 mc 'I mean, show them a thousand line Java file or a 10 line Perl program.' 09:49 mc i love the concept but have no time to practice :( 09:49 mc i read a book on it and i'm very attracted by the level of abstraction 09:47 johnny yeah, it is 09:47 johnny but yeah, i couldn't agree more 09:47 mc johnny, rails is in ruby 09:47 johnny mc: well, he was mentioning rails... 09:45 chris write even 09:45 chris we could go really lowlevel, and do machine code 09:45 chris wrote a compiler in it 09:45 chris i did haskell at university 09:45 chris heh 09:43 mc ;) 09:43 mc chris, what about haskell ? 09:41 chris http://kapiti.geek.nz/random/why-im-passionate-about-perl.html 09:40 mc the basics are close 09:40 chris ill find it 09:40 chris actually my friend andy wrote a good post about this 09:40 mc that's one more point for moose: 09:40 mc me too 09:39 chris ive been playing with pugs, and perl6 09:39 mc sure 09:39 mc chris, well ... i don't like the idea there is no more new contrib 09:39 chris yeah i am, if i did it erlang .. we'd have no developers :) 09:39 mc johnny, if we have to change for any other language (i'm not sure it's a good idea), we have to choose a good one 09:39 chris you dont like the idea of a distributed, concurrent koha? ;-) 09:38 mc i hope you're kidding 09:38 johnny ahhaha 09:38 mc :( 09:38 chris :) 09:38 chris or erlang 09:38 mc ;) 09:38 mc johnny, get out of there! 09:38 chris or maybe django 09:37 mc sure: i don't beat on koha team! koha is just a good piece of software in regard of is history 09:37 johnny eh, what about django? ☺ 09:37 chris but in 99, neither existed :) 09:37 chris or maybe rails 09:36 chris from scratch, i would use either catalyst 09:36 chris if i was writing koha now 09:35 mc touched! i shut up :) 09:35 chris yeah, but you can do anything in perl .. it doesnt make perl bad :) 09:35 chris you can totally separate the two 09:35 mc sure ... but you can ... so be sure someone will :) 09:35 chris if you build your components right 09:34 chris you dont have to use it like that 09:34 mc i don't like to see perl code in a template 09:34 mc so mason is just a kind of php++ for me 09:33 chris if you can make use of the strong inheritance that mason has 09:33 mc and i don't like masson 'cuz it embeded perl code 09:33 johnny hey chris 09:33 chris it depends on the structure of your website 09:33 chris mason has some very good things 09:33 mc i talk about catalyst. I love concepts of Jifty but there is too much use of mason 09:33 chris so it has to be a *good* framework, not just any framework 09:32 chris like maypole, or tangram 09:32 chris but there are some frameworks that are no where near as nice 09:32 chris if we just talk about catalyst then i mostly agree 09:32 mc a special Model::MYSQL::InSteroid 09:32 chris it depends on the framework 09:31 mc and if sql tweaks possible: 09:31 mc - easy to read and understand (new conributors will appreciate) 09:31 mc - techno independant 09:30 mc pro: 09:30 mc a good separation of the M can drive us to a design of a generic DBI::Class M 09:29 mc about performances: i just wanted to notice that the fact to don't use a framework introduce bugs (as this i have fixed) that are very bad for performances 09:29 chris yep, thats we end up doing 09:28 mc for example: Class::DBI can speed the dev, but you can feel free to rewrite your own M from scratch 09:27 mc on of the thing i love in catalyst is that there is no need to use anything 09:27 mc ok 09:27 mc 100% 09:27 mc 80% 09:27 chris :) 09:26 mc 50% 09:26 mc i read 09:26 chris but for big production sites, we prefer to get our hands a bit more dirty :-) 09:26 chris so often we will prototype with a framework, or for small apps, or sites use it 09:25 mc sorry 09:25 mc oops 09:25 chris for things like the SRS (running the .nz registry) and stuff.co.nz etc .. performance is very important 09:24 chris but prefer to be able to tweak the sql, for performance reasons 09:24 chris so instead we use the things we like about it, like the MVC model, and template toolkit 09:24 paul mc: beeepp !!!! 09:23 chris the main thing i dont like about catalyst for example, is it uses Class::DBI 09:22 chris but often the ease of programming, is offset by the performance hit 09:22 paul (which is not really a framework, I agree) 09:22 paul he spoke of moose for example 09:22 chris generally they are good for prototyping 09:21 paul because he asked us some questions about using a framework for Koha. I have no experience. Do you have some ? 09:21 chris we use all sorts of different things 09:21 paul chris: do your company use a perl framework for devs ? like catalyst. mc would be interested to know I'm sure 09:20 chris mc: updated the post 09:14 chris excellent 09:09 paul we are 3 : me, osaury & johnny 09:09 paul yep 09:09 chris does he work in the marseille office with you paul? 09:08 chris hi johnny :) 09:06 paul (since yesterday) 09:06 paul chris: say hello to johnny the new biblibrios 09:05 chris hi paul 09:04 paul hi chris 09:04 chris ill update the post 09:04 chris you can get it from biglumber 09:04 chris ahh sorry 07:37 mc chris: just one point: you didn't explain how to add the GPG key for your repo 07:36 mc chris++ 07:36 mc i just read the chris post on packaging koha on hardy 07:36 mc hello 07:23 johnny good morning 18:08 qiqo hmm 18:05 nengard np 18:05 qiqo but im having these errors: 02:03:05-05/08 zebraidx(6329) [warn] Record didn't contain match fields in (bib1,Local-number) 18:05 qiqo those are the last lines after the execution 18:05 qiqo ==================== 18:05 liz-nekls what was the question? 18:05 liz-nekls nengard - sorry I was afk 18:05 qiqo CLEANING 18:05 qiqo ==================== 18:04 qiqo 02:03:05-05/08 zebraidx(6331) [log] zebra_stop: 0.03 0.00 0.00 18:04 qiqo ran it 18:04 qiqo yup 17:59 ryan qiqo: you ran misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra -b ? 17:52 qiqo i think i got the indexing wrong 17:52 qiqo can anyone help me throug ssh? 17:51 qiqo hmm 17:49 qiqo root 6128 0.0 0.7 39336 7912 pts/0 T 01:33 0:00 zebrasrv -f /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml 17:49 qiqo also i guess zebra is running 17:47 qiqo im using RC1 now 17:47 qiqo yeah... so i upgraded to 3.0 17:47 kados qiqo: you need 3.0 17:47 qiqo i have 300 bilio records 17:47 kados qiqo: 2.2 doesn't use zebra 17:47 mc hdl, thx (i just noticed your reply) 17:47 qiqo but when i perform search, nothing is reflected 17:47 qiqo well the server is running 17:47 qiqo and im having trouble running the zebraserver 17:47 qiqo from 2.2 here 17:47 qiqo ive just upgraded to rc1 17:46 qiqo hi atz and danny 17:45 danny somewhat awake =) 17:45 atz yep 17:43 sawariwap anyone awake? 17:11 nengard cnighs they use ddc at nekls- liz-nekls do you know anything that can help? 17:07 cnighs any ddc experts, semi-experts, or just plain non-experts w/some kind of ddc experience around? 17:07 hdl professional API 17:00 mc that means: API that provides a business abstraction 17:00 mc someone knows how to translate "API metier" ? 16:37 mc you're right 16:37 mc yep 16:36 mc i just wanted to know if i was just wrong :) 16:36 paul at least, they will realize it will not be that easy to get something really usefull 16:36 mc paul, ok 16:36 mc but peraps there is better to do ... 16:36 paul write a mail to tell your questions & doubts. 16:36 mc that's why i shut up for now 16:34 acmoore mc: But, perhaps something useful will come out of it. It doesn't really cost the rest of us much to see how they do, so I can't object. 16:33 acmoore mc: Yes, I think I follow you. we don't really have any objects, so you can't really make a model for it. 16:32 mc (or perhaps it's just an UML view of the schema ... so why not just E/R? ) 16:30 mc (i think about class diagram : action diagram is just impossible to render automatically) 16:30 mc hmm ... sorry for my poor english: i'm trying to tell that i think is quiet useless as there is no diagram to draw 16:27 acmoore mc: I can see it being useful, too, but probably really difficult to do on the current Koha code. 16:26 mc ( E/R diagram can be really usefull, btw ) 16:26 mc any idea ? 16:26 mc as there is no object i seen on the koha API, i'm trying to figure out how a UML diagram can help ? 16:25 mc i read the Zeno's message 16:25 mc hello all 16:12 nengard owen thanks - i added that info to my document 16:09 owen The wiki at least gives a better description of those codes: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:kohaauthvalues#holdings_statements_for_bibliographic_items 16:07 nengard hdl - yeah those are the ones that i can't even guess about 16:06 hdl )= 16:06 hdl (For HINGS_* 16:04 nengard can someone fill in the ?? on this page for me - just tell me what to put and I'll put it in: http://sites.google.com/a/liblime.com/koha-manual/Home/Table-of-Contents/administration/Manual--Catalog/Catalog--Authorized-Values 15:55 liz-nekls mmm awesome 15:55 nengard liz-nekls i went to an SLA meeting and scientists from hershey were there and they gave us free samples ;) yum 15:55 liz-nekls nengard did you get chocolate? 15:54 liz-nekls nengard-nice 15:54 nengard liz-nekls - i did have a nice weekend, we went to hershey, PA and now i'm going through my training notes to update documentation :) 15:54 nengard * OFF = Items will not be set as in transit to their home location, instead the item will remain at the library that checked the item. The check in location will show on the item record as the 'holding' location (like a temp location) 15:53 nengard o IMPORTANT: This assumes you know what needs to be transferred, and initiates the transfer automatically without showing a notification message. 15:53 nengard * ON = Items checked in at a location other than the home branch specified in their record will be set as in transit to their home location. 15:53 nengard Values: 15:53 nengard Default Value: ON 15:53 nengard Defines if Koha will automatically transfer an item to to its home branch, or not. 15:53 nengard AutomaticItemReturn 15:53 nengard can someone tell me if this is right? 15:47 liz-nekls hola chica did you have a good weekend? 15:18 nengard hiya liz-nekls 15:16 gmcharlt hi liz-nekls 15:15 danny ok i'll take a look at it, thanks 15:15 nengard danny, this may be of help to you: http://sites.google.com/a/liblime.com/koha-manual/ 15:02 danny ok I see it, thanks 15:02 owen borrowerRelationship 15:01 danny ah 15:01 paul yes, that's why it's defined in a syspref ;-) 15:01 danny there can be many more options under relationship then father/mother 15:00 danny like when modifying a Child Patron from the staff side, there is a drop down list for Relationship under Guarantor information 15:00 danny ok they are all about really little specific things 14:59 owen I'm eager to hear any questions you've got 14:59 danny ok sounds good 14:59 danny mostly concerning why certain things are setup they way they are and if they can be changed or not 14:58 owen Either place. Try here first and mail the list if you don't get a good answer or want to get more of a consensus. 14:57 danny and if I have questions on some usability/template design questions, is it best to ask here or the koha-devel list? 14:54 danny that is true 14:54 danny hehe 14:53 owen At least that's the rationale I recall 14:53 owen danny, we do it this way with Koha to make it easier for the developers to work on the templates. Devs get real language strings in the template when editing rather than variable names they'd have to look up elsewhere 14:52 danny paul: ah I see, ok thank you 14:52 owen There is a howtotranslatekoha page, but it's not really what it sounds like: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=howtotranslatekoha 14:51 owen paul, is there anything on the wiki describing the process? 14:50 paul misc/translator/tmpl_process3.pl 14:49 danny oh really? that is good 14:49 hdl But there is a process that does it automatically 14:48 hdl danny: yes 14:48 owen danny: you're not the first to ask the question 14:48 danny it seems like with the way it is currently setup if I make a html coding change to an en template, that same change would need to be made to a fr template, is that true? 14:47 danny in trying to understand koha better, I am curious as to the reasoning behind having the templates include the html coding + language, instead of just having all of the wording become variables and then including like a language file? 14:21 johnny haha, true