Time  Nick       Message
11:45 js         hi (before ;))
11:45 js         who know where is the firefox plugin to search in koha database ?
08:19 paul       that says there is something wrong with cpan.catalyst.net.nz ...
08:18 paul       mmm... investigating cpan mirrors, I find http://www.cs.uu.nl/stats/mirmon/cpan.html#fr
07:25 mc         and excuse me
07:25 mc         so please don't carre about the french line
07:25 mc         oopps ...  i'm on #koha ... not #koha-fr
07:22 mc         désolé pour la grasse mat.: je viens juste d'arriver
07:22 mc         hello world
22:54 masonj     oooh, great idea rach
22:54 rach       any objections?
22:54 rach       I was thinking to put the venuzuala announcement on the koha website
22:54 rach       howdy
22:04 hdl_laptop (midnight here)
22:04 hdl_laptop good night
22:04 hdl_laptop getting tired.
21:54 hdl_laptop I agree.
21:49 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: marginally slower, perhaps - I just think it's one thing to not pass in $dbh in the public API, and a different in the private one
21:37 hdl_laptop So that tehere would have been no good not to remove it from _koha_delete_item.
21:37 hdl_laptop + I thought at first glance that dbh was not used in DelItem
21:36 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: is C4::Context->dbh access slower than passing dbh ?
21:36 ccatalfo_  hdl_laptop: thx for the email; i'll check it out tomorrow, too
21:28 hdl_laptop thx.
21:22 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: got the email; will comment tomorrow
21:10 hdl_laptop I detail in a mail.
21:09 hdl_laptop ccatalfo_: couldnot get too far unfortunately.
21:05 acmoore    I guess I'm wondering what problem occurred that caused us to add that.
21:04 acmoore    Isn't there a DBI::ping method or something? or, can we not depend on auto_reconnect to work?
21:04 acmoore    The recent email brought my attention to the 'select 1' clause in C4::Context::dbh. Is that just there to make sure that we're connected to a database? It seems like there might be a better way to do that.
20:39 ccatalfo   hdl_laptop: how far along have you gotten?  How much is left to be implemented?
20:35 hdl_laptop It is is a really poor state at the moment. I am full of  ideas. but has no time and little skills on jquery so that it takes me too much time.
20:35 ccatalfo   hdl_laptop: i can take a look, too.  (I'm ok on jquery knowledge; not so good on koha knowledge)
20:34 gmcharlt   ccatalfo would be better, though
20:33 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: I can take a look at it
20:33 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: Is there anyone at liblime who has jquery knowledge and is available interested  in what I have been doing on subscription-add.pl ?
19:57 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: evidently it got missed - I didn't add back the $dbh
19:57 hdl_laptop just to point it.
19:57 hdl_laptop I thought we decided not to pass dbh as function parameter but to use C4::Context->dbh
19:56 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: I have seen that DelItem still required (dbh) to be passed along as parameter.
19:39 frederic   I found
19:39 frederic   acmoore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutator_method
19:39 frederic   what's strange is that rtl support requires specific care in template and CSS. For me it's not here yet. So I'm surprised there hasn't more feedback on that
19:39 acmoore    frederic, or a "setter", a method to let you write the value of an attribute.
19:38 atz        the Physics ppl in Islamabad probably did rtl, i think
19:37 frederic   a mutator! I have to google
19:37 acmoore    I think gmcharlt is intending to write a mutator to let us set sysprefs without SQL.
19:37 frederic   I can see that there is an Hebrew translation for example
19:37 frederic   Does anybody know someone who had to deal with right-to-left language support in Koha?
19:36 atz        frederic: yeah, that would be a good move
19:35 frederic   Later
19:35 frederic   I would be so easy to have for example a Syspref class which hide the implementation... No SQL UPDATE in the code...
19:34 atz        Dates.pm has that too, because it has legacy functions from Date.pm
19:34 frederic   Yes, I've seen. Very clean design
19:34 atz        yeah, that happens in many places
19:34 frederic   atz: for you, it's easy. What's very confusing in Context.pm is the mix OO/procedures
19:34 atz        the SIP abstraction layer (ILS) is also OO
19:33 atz        it's just very easy to do procedural stuff
19:33 frederic   hdl_laptop: I sent 2 messages this morning (our morning) and no one appear immediatly, neither koha-devel nor koha-translate. And then I saw thme this evening.
19:32 atz        sure, it's not that hard
19:32 frederic   atz: are you the one who know how to do OO programing in Perl?
19:30 acmoore    atz++
19:27 hdl_laptop Koha Arabic Version
19:27 hdl_laptop I have one from you on that list in my box sent today.
19:25 hdl_laptop have you sent messages to that list recently ?
19:24 hdl_laptop koha-translate, no message pending approval
19:24 hdl_laptop koha-devel
19:23 atz        OO barcodes modules sent.  nothing important yet, but pretty cool to look at (much better model for extension)
19:22 frederic   koha-translate or koha-devel?
19:22 hdl_laptop it seems.
19:21 hdl_laptop you were not member on that email before posting.
19:20 frederic   hdl_laptop: thks. And why do you have to?
19:19 hdl_laptop and had no internet connction.
19:19 hdl_laptop frederic: I had to ackowledge your message.
19:18 acmoore    oh, it looks like markmail may not be archiving koha-translate.
19:17 frederic   Yes RTL
19:17 frederic   But it take forever to appear
19:17 frederic   acmoore: thanks. I haven't seen for koha-translate. Something wrong on my side
19:16 acmoore    RTL language stuff?
19:16 acmoore    Here are some recent ones from you: http://koha.markmail.org/search/?q=frederic
19:16 acmoore    I saw a recent post from you on the translate list.
19:15 frederic   And don't appear at all in koha-translate
19:15 frederic   My messages appear in koha-devel hours after I post them
19:14 frederic   Is there something wrong with koha-devel and koha-translate lists?
19:14 frederic   hello
18:52 acmoore    is Fr?d?ric some kind of super-linguist? He deserves a cookie or something.
18:48 acmoore    gmcharlt, sent you 5 patches for 2274. If you get a moment to at least eyeball them, that would be great.
18:34 gmcharlt   thx
18:34 acmoore    gmcharlt, your patch signed and sent.
18:33 acmoore    I'll mail them. You don't have to apply them, but I'm sure you'll see something like missing docs or something.
18:30 gmcharlt   acmoore: sure, in about 10 minutes
18:29 acmoore    gmcharlt, and then I have patches for the overdue notices script. I'm sure I've missed some stuff and could use a second pair of eyes if you get some time. Can you give me 20 minites or so?
18:29 gmcharlt   sent, even
18:28 gmcharlt   semt
18:27 acmoore    OK. Whenever you get to it.
18:27 gmcharlt   acmoore: better for me to resubmit
18:26 acmoore    or, I guess, what's the procedure here?
18:26 gmcharlt   I see now that I missed the TEST_FILES=bit
18:26 acmoore    gmcharlt, can I edit the change before I sign it somehow?
18:26 gmcharlt   I'll fix it
18:26 acmoore    I'd like to fix the docs, though. The commit message is misleading about the usage, I think.
18:26 hdl_laptop hi again
18:26 acmoore    OK, then it's probably worth me signing off on.
18:25 gmcharlt   yes
18:25 acmoore    gmcharlt, have you sucessfully used this in a test-code-test-code-test cycle?
18:25 gmcharlt   long-term, IMO, better to design the test classes so that they can assume that the DB tables exist, but not make any particular assumptions about their contents, and to clean up after themselves
18:25 gmcharlt   acmoore: calculated risk - one could put the whole DB clearing step into the INIT, but that would mean slowing the tests
18:24 acmoore    I'll run the whole suite again and see if I can restore the database enough to be usable again.
18:23 gmcharlt   the one is setting an env var, the second is setting a make variable
18:23 acmoore    gmcharlt, so, now it runs tests at least, but by running a few of them, I think I have my database well botched, so none of them really pass anymore.
18:22 acmoore    atz, I was, too.
18:22 atz        like w/ other make vars
18:22 atz        i would have been fooled by that into doing:  TEST_FILES=lib/KohaTest/Biblio.pm  make test-single
18:21 acmoore    aaahh.
18:20 gmcharlt    make test-single TEST_FILES=lib/KohaTest/Biblio.pm
18:17 acmoore    I can't quite get it. What should the command line look like?
18:16 gmcharlt   acmoore: yes
18:16 gmcharlt   when you're using test-single - otherwise, defaults to database_dependent.pl, and has effect of trying to call runtests twice
18:16 acmoore    on the command line?
18:15 gmcharlt   acmoore: the TEST_FILES= is required
18:15 acmoore    I can't quite get it to work, I guess. I get a lot of errors about redefined subs and "cannot test anonymous subs - you probably loaded a Test::Class too late" and then the whole test suite still runs.
18:14 gmcharlt   acmoore: ok
18:14 acmoore    gmcharlt, I'm taking a look at your patch to the test suite. Have a second?
17:53 acmoore    OK. I'll apply this and try it out in a few minutes. good idea!
17:53 acmoore    weird. well, whatever. It's obviously used, so it should be "use"d
17:52 gmcharlt   when running full test, CGI.pm must have been slurped in somewhere use
17:52 acmoore    (I'm not saying you're doing it wrong. I'm just saying I don't see it yet)
17:52 acmoore    gmcharlt, hmm. why was it working before?
17:51 gmcharlt   acmoore: startup_30_login
17:51 acmoore    why? I don't see where it's used or anything.
17:51 rhcl       Oh, no, it's not about SIP.
17:50 gmcharlt   acmoore: yes, I did - required if you're running a single test class
17:50 rhcl       Maybe it's not so critical, but I would prefer a direct email with someone.
17:50 acmoore    gmcharlt, did you intend to add a "use CGI" in that patch you just sent me?
17:49 atz        koha has verifiable SIP support now, if that's the question.  :)
17:48 gmcharlt   rhc1: can it be asked publically on koha or koha-devel?
17:48 rhcl       I just received an inquiry from a major software vendor of ILS "accessories". I'd kinda like to ask a brief question via email or pm of someone who can better speak for the Koha community than me.
17:45 acmoore    we got a few inches of rain last night, designed just perfectly to try to prevent fires from the fireworks this weekend.
17:44 gmcharlt   perfect day in Chicago
17:44 nengard    atz they say that's coming our way
17:44 atz        raining here...  :\
17:44 nengard    heh
17:44 nengard    even though i just got off vaca
17:44 nengard    i'm here too - wish i was getting an early holiday start!!
17:42 acmoore    yeah, I caught myself in a double-take over that, too.
17:41 atz        in fact, rhcl, from here you almost look like one of'm (that sometimes goes by "rch")
17:41 acmoore    here!
17:40 atz        what's up?
17:40 atz        yeah, several of us are here
17:40 rhcl       Anybody online here from LibLime? Maybe they are getting an early start for the holiday?
17:21 hdl_laptop bbs
17:21 hdl_laptop thx gmcharlt
17:08 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: I'll be sending patch to list soon
17:08 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: are you sending your patch to the list or are you pushing it quite soon ?
17:08 hdl_laptop ok.
17:03 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: that part is probably a separate issue from the creation of duplciate item tags
17:02 hdl_laptop So I can have overlooked some parameters.
17:02 hdl_laptop but it was really late.
17:02 hdl_laptop And was surprised to see that PrepareItems would use AddItem but not link serial created with the itemnumber.
17:01 hdl_laptop I investiguated yesterday...
17:01 hdl_laptop I trust you intestiguated more than me.
16:58 gmcharlt   if, on other hand, ModBiblio() ignores any item tags from the incoming bib, problem goes away - APIs like AddItem() shoudl be used to handle the items
16:58 gmcharlt   but not all
16:58 gmcharlt   most clients of ModBiblio remember to remove the item tags first before calling ModBiblio
16:57 gmcharlt   so ModBiblio will add them back
16:57 gmcharlt   it *already* has the item fields
16:57 gmcharlt   however, if you got that MARC::Record from GetBiblio
16:57 gmcharlt   then save the bib to DB
16:57 gmcharlt   to the MARC::Record that you passed in
16:57 gmcharlt   what ModBiblio does is add all of the item tags from the original version of the bib
16:56 gmcharlt   3. call ModBiblio()
16:56 gmcharlt   2. munge the bib (assume that you don't care about the items)
16:56 gmcharlt   1. retrieve MARC bib - it has items embedded in 952/955/whatever tags
16:56 gmcharlt   it goes like this:
16:56 gmcharlt   a problem of its design, anyway
16:56 hdl_laptop This would be surprising to me.
16:55 hdl_laptop Is it a problem of ModBiblio ???
16:54 gmcharlt   I'm writing a test case for it now
16:54 gmcharlt   change will be to have ModBiblio live up to its name and modify only the bib portion, not change the items
16:53 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: bug 2297
16:53 hdl_laptop paul told me you had a patch for subscriptions ?
16:53 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt
16:50 gmcharlt   hi henri
16:49 paul       gmcharlt: hdl_laptop is here now ;-)
16:38 Kyle       yes. Essentially, we create version 1, then make copies of it and run the setup with whichever options we want, throw some items into the database, and uplaod it.
16:36 gmcharlt   2. basis for a furhter-customized image that someone does and uploads
16:36 Kyle       Yes, I see. That sounds good to me.
16:36 gmcharlt   1. version that allows a user to try out any combination of options
16:35 gmcharlt   the default image would serve two purposes
16:35 gmcharlt   the former
16:35 Kyle       gmcharlt: do you mean customize the base image and upload it as another downloadable option, or have the user download the image and then customize it? I imagine having it pre-customized would be better. We can always have a "If you are not sure which version to download, pick this one" option.
16:33 gmcharlt   then if you wanted a fr-FR NoZebra image with sample data, you could customize the base image
16:33 gmcharlt   isntall all of the langauges, etc.
16:33 atz        right
16:32 atz        it is pretty easy to turn NoZebra on
16:32 gmcharlt   e.g., have it have the Zebra processes be running, but user can choose NoZebra during installer if they wish
16:32 atz        Kyle: i wouldn't bother w/ a no zebra image.
16:32 gmcharlt   well, the default image w/o sample data could handle most of the options
16:32 Kyle       I think we should limit it to the big ones, so people wanting to try it out don't get overwhelmed by the options.
16:31 Kyle       If we can get a list of combinations hammered out like paul listed earlier ( Zebra/NoZebra, etc... ) I will see what I can do.
16:30 paul       having Kyle explaining is better, from far :D
16:30 Kyle       heh : )
16:30 paul       here in france, I think some libraries would be interested to have a vmware for "small library, that want simple cataloguing, with hide_marc=ON)
16:30 gmcharlt   or we could just ask Kyle to do it all ;)
16:30 gmcharlt   paul: hence why I suggested ading documentation about customizing the image
16:30 atz        so instead of the current "I installed 2.2.9 perfectly, but I got this error..." all the questions on [Koha] will be "So how do I edit the HTML?"
16:29 paul       the best solution would be to have X versions : Zebra / NoZebra , UNIMARC / MARC21, en only / i18n, ...
16:28 Kyle       agreed.
16:28 atz        they can run it on their windows workstation or whatever
16:27 atz        a vmware image will get a lot more ppl who can't handle the linux admin parts of the install
16:27 Kyle       paul: thanks : )
16:26 paul       Kyle: ++
16:26 Kyle       Yes, that is why I think it might be nice to have a vmware image that is not yet setup, and one that is set up with all the example data, and some exmple items. That way if someone wants to try it out right away they can choose the already set up image, as it would have libraries, patrons, and items.
16:24 gmcharlt   installer would have to do something like kick off bulkmarcimport followed by a rebuild_zebra
16:24 gmcharlt   yes
16:23 Kyle       For sample items, wouldn't something have to be done with zebra, as well as with mysql?
16:22 Kyle       You don't need to. The example patrons already in there should work just fine.
16:22 paul       cities : {paris|Marseille|Lyon|Toulouse|...}
16:22 Kyle       Ah, I see.
16:22 paul       but I can send it to you if you want
16:22 paul       as it's frenchy addresses
16:21 paul       nope.a
16:21 Kyle       paul: is that script in the Koha 3 repo?
16:21 paul       replacing it by a random sample or {rand}{street|av|bd}{something|somethingelse} {random zipcode} {random city}
16:20 Kyle       gmcharlt: yes, I understand that.
16:20 paul       '(mails, addresses, birthdate, phone, ...)
16:20 paul       (I did a "anonymise.pl" script, that anonymise everything in a patron
16:20 paul       gmcharlt: right ;-)
16:20 gmcharlt   i.e., be selective in what you dump
16:20 paul       so don't setup a 100k DB with 2 years history...
16:19 gmcharlt   Kyle: uh, warning: doing that naively will violate patron privacy
16:19 paul       mmm... another limit maybe the Apache timeout.
16:19 paul       then add it to Koha, and that's OK, it can be "imported" by the installer !
16:19 paul       you can just "mysqldump yourdb"
16:19 paul       but that's a choice, not a limit
16:19 paul       because LibLime did not add a file for that.
16:18 Kyle       I mean, it creates example item types and patrons types, and example patrons, but I didn't see an option for dummy items during the web install.
16:18 paul       (just that it result in a large large .tar.gz...)
16:18 gmcharlt   Kyle: yes, the scripts in installer/data/mysql/<lang>
16:18 paul       even a 100k production ready DB with 2 years of issuing history
16:17 paul       it's SQL, so you can put whatever you want !
16:17 Kyle       paul: you mean there is an option to put in example items?
16:17 paul       kados: around ?
16:17 paul       during install
16:17 paul       no, you're wrong. you can have a full sample DB, that overwrite all other parameters the user could choose
16:16 Kyle       yes, I really like that option of example data, afaik it doesn't create and sample items in the db, am I correct?
16:16 gmcharlt   paul: but if you want to just play around with Koha and have something that works with no setup whatsoever, that's also nice
16:15 paul       so, just put your sample DB in installer scope, and that's enough ;-)
16:15 paul       as, if you have an empty DB, it will ask you what you want to setup
16:15 paul       Kyle: the installer is supposed to solve this question.
16:14 gmcharlt   Kyle: or perhaps better, the former along with a nicely detailed wiki entry on customizing the image
16:14 Kyle       choice is good ; )
16:14 gmcharlt   Kyle: one of each
16:14 Kyle       or I could do one of each.
16:13 Kyle       On a side not,e, which do you all think would be better, to upload an image that is ready to be setup ( that is, when you go to port 8080, it takes you though the install wizard ) or to upload an image that is already set up with the example data.
16:06 Kyle       If 3.0 is out next week, I think waiting is a good idea.
16:05 paul       mmm... I would say "ask chris" & maybe "wait next week to upload the VMware of 3.0 official !
16:05 Kyle       Hi paul. I'd like to put the image on koha.org, does anyone know how I would go about that?
16:05 gmcharlt   Kyle++
16:04 paul       great !
16:04 paul       hi Kyle
16:04 Kyle       Hey all. We just got a vmware appliance up and running for Koha 3 RC 1 on Debian Etch.
15:22 gmcharlt   paul: but regarding 2297, I think I'm going to submit a patch to deal with all uses of ModBiblio and how it handles embedded items, since the issue is broader than just the subscription add
15:21 paul       because here, you can't open radio, TV, internet or newspaper without hearing of it !!!
15:21 gmcharlt   paul: it made the front page of the Chicago Tribune
15:21 paul       is the "Columbia hostages freed " affair make as much noise in US as in France ?
15:20 paul       he will confirm or not.
15:20 gmcharlt   the problem is the ModBiblio API
15:20 paul       send it & copy it to him.
15:20 gmcharlt   the thing is, I have a patch ready to go soon for it as well
15:20 paul       so he was sure enough that he could fix the problem quickly.
15:19 paul       - was unhappy to see that someone broke a feature that used to work, probably by ignoring some specificities of the code (his fault : lack of POD & comments)
15:18 paul       - he understood were the problem was
15:18 paul       he investigated it yesterday, and think that :
15:18 gmcharlt   paul: then is he actively working on bug 2297?
15:18 paul       should appear under nick hdl_laptop in a moment.
15:18 paul       gmcharlt: hdl is away during the day for the week (teaching Koha at a library)
15:17 gmcharlt   hdl: about?
15:04 atz        acmoore: nice link
14:47 acmoore    OK, paul. I did.
14:41 paul       hello gmcharlt (& acmoore)
14:41 gmcharlt   greetings paul et #koha
14:41 paul       acmoore: you should drop a mail to koha-devel with this link...
14:37 acmoore    perhps it would be a good took for those of us who are investigating performance improvements.
14:37 acmoore    at YAPC this year, everyone was talking about how great the NY Times Profiler is http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/the-new-york-times-perl-profiler/
13:49 paul       ryan: nope, hdl is teaching Koha. He should appear in a few hours, with hdl_laptop nickname
13:29 ryan       hdl: around ?