Time  Nick       Message
13:29 ryan       hdl: around ?
13:49 paul       ryan: nope, hdl is teaching Koha. He should appear in a few hours, with hdl_laptop nickname
14:37 acmoore    at YAPC this year, everyone was talking about how great the NY Times Profiler is http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/05/the-new-york-times-perl-profiler/
14:37 acmoore    perhps it would be a good took for those of us who are investigating performance improvements.
14:41 paul       acmoore: you should drop a mail to koha-devel with this link...
14:41 gmcharlt   greetings paul et #koha
14:41 paul       hello gmcharlt (& acmoore)
14:47 acmoore    OK, paul. I did.
15:04 atz        acmoore: nice link
15:17 gmcharlt   hdl: about?
15:18 paul       gmcharlt: hdl is away during the day for the week (teaching Koha at a library)
15:18 paul       should appear under nick hdl_laptop in a moment.
15:18 gmcharlt   paul: then is he actively working on bug 2297?
15:18 paul       he investigated it yesterday, and think that :
15:18 paul       - he understood were the problem was
15:19 paul       - was unhappy to see that someone broke a feature that used to work, probably by ignoring some specificities of the code (his fault : lack of POD & comments)
15:20 paul       so he was sure enough that he could fix the problem quickly.
15:20 gmcharlt   the thing is, I have a patch ready to go soon for it as well
15:20 paul       send it & copy it to him.
15:20 gmcharlt   the problem is the ModBiblio API
15:20 paul       he will confirm or not.
15:21 paul       is the "Columbia hostages freed " affair make as much noise in US as in France ?
15:21 gmcharlt   paul: it made the front page of the Chicago Tribune
15:21 paul       because here, you can't open radio, TV, internet or newspaper without hearing of it !!!
15:22 gmcharlt   paul: but regarding 2297, I think I'm going to submit a patch to deal with all uses of ModBiblio and how it handles embedded items, since the issue is broader than just the subscription add
16:04 Kyle       Hey all. We just got a vmware appliance up and running for Koha 3 RC 1 on Debian Etch.
16:04 paul       hi Kyle
16:04 paul       great !
16:05 gmcharlt   Kyle++
16:05 Kyle       Hi paul. I'd like to put the image on koha.org, does anyone know how I would go about that?
16:05 paul       mmm... I would say "ask chris" & maybe "wait next week to upload the VMware of 3.0 official !
16:06 Kyle       If 3.0 is out next week, I think waiting is a good idea.
16:13 Kyle       On a side not,e, which do you all think would be better, to upload an image that is ready to be setup ( that is, when you go to port 8080, it takes you though the install wizard ) or to upload an image that is already set up with the example data.
16:14 Kyle       or I could do one of each.
16:14 gmcharlt   Kyle: one of each
16:14 Kyle       choice is good ; )
16:14 gmcharlt   Kyle: or perhaps better, the former along with a nicely detailed wiki entry on customizing the image
16:15 paul       Kyle: the installer is supposed to solve this question.
16:15 paul       as, if you have an empty DB, it will ask you what you want to setup
16:15 paul       so, just put your sample DB in installer scope, and that's enough ;-)
16:16 gmcharlt   paul: but if you want to just play around with Koha and have something that works with no setup whatsoever, that's also nice
16:16 Kyle       yes, I really like that option of example data, afaik it doesn't create and sample items in the db, am I correct?
16:17 paul       no, you're wrong. you can have a full sample DB, that overwrite all other parameters the user could choose
16:17 paul       during install
16:17 paul       kados: around ?
16:17 Kyle       paul: you mean there is an option to put in example items?
16:17 paul       it's SQL, so you can put whatever you want !
16:18 paul       even a 100k production ready DB with 2 years of issuing history
16:18 gmcharlt   Kyle: yes, the scripts in installer/data/mysql/<lang>
16:18 paul       (just that it result in a large large .tar.gz...)
16:18 Kyle       I mean, it creates example item types and patrons types, and example patrons, but I didn't see an option for dummy items during the web install.
16:19 paul       because LibLime did not add a file for that.
16:19 paul       but that's a choice, not a limit
16:19 paul       you can just "mysqldump yourdb"
16:19 paul       then add it to Koha, and that's OK, it can be "imported" by the installer !
16:19 paul       mmm... another limit maybe the Apache timeout.
16:19 gmcharlt   Kyle: uh, warning: doing that naively will violate patron privacy
16:20 paul       so don't setup a 100k DB with 2 years history...
16:20 gmcharlt   i.e., be selective in what you dump
16:20 paul       gmcharlt: right ;-)
16:20 paul       (I did a "anonymise.pl" script, that anonymise everything in a patron
16:20 paul       '(mails, addresses, birthdate, phone, ...)
16:20 Kyle       gmcharlt: yes, I understand that.
16:21 paul       replacing it by a random sample or {rand}{street|av|bd}{something|somethingelse} {random zipcode} {random city}
16:21 Kyle       paul: is that script in the Koha 3 repo?
16:21 paul       nope.a
16:22 paul       as it's frenchy addresses
16:22 paul       but I can send it to you if you want
16:22 Kyle       Ah, I see.
16:22 paul       cities : {paris|Marseille|Lyon|Toulouse|...}
16:22 Kyle       You don't need to. The example patrons already in there should work just fine.
16:23 Kyle       For sample items, wouldn't something have to be done with zebra, as well as with mysql?
16:24 gmcharlt   yes
16:24 gmcharlt   installer would have to do something like kick off bulkmarcimport followed by a rebuild_zebra
16:26 Kyle       Yes, that is why I think it might be nice to have a vmware image that is not yet setup, and one that is set up with all the example data, and some exmple items. That way if someone wants to try it out right away they can choose the already set up image, as it would have libraries, patrons, and items.
16:26 paul       Kyle: ++
16:27 Kyle       paul: thanks : )
16:27 atz        a vmware image will get a lot more ppl who can't handle the linux admin parts of the install
16:28 atz        they can run it on their windows workstation or whatever
16:28 Kyle       agreed.
16:29 paul       the best solution would be to have X versions : Zebra / NoZebra , UNIMARC / MARC21, en only / i18n, ...
16:30 atz        so instead of the current "I installed 2.2.9 perfectly, but I got this error..." all the questions on [Koha] will be "So how do I edit the HTML?"
16:30 gmcharlt   paul: hence why I suggested ading documentation about customizing the image
16:30 gmcharlt   or we could just ask Kyle to do it all ;)
16:30 paul       here in france, I think some libraries would be interested to have a vmware for "small library, that want simple cataloguing, with hide_marc=ON)
16:30 Kyle       heh : )
16:30 paul       having Kyle explaining is better, from far :D
16:31 Kyle       If we can get a list of combinations hammered out like paul listed earlier ( Zebra/NoZebra, etc... ) I will see what I can do.
16:32 Kyle       I think we should limit it to the big ones, so people wanting to try it out don't get overwhelmed by the options.
16:32 gmcharlt   well, the default image w/o sample data could handle most of the options
16:32 atz        Kyle: i wouldn't bother w/ a no zebra image.
16:32 gmcharlt   e.g., have it have the Zebra processes be running, but user can choose NoZebra during installer if they wish
16:32 atz        it is pretty easy to turn NoZebra on
16:33 atz        right
16:33 gmcharlt   isntall all of the langauges, etc.
16:33 gmcharlt   then if you wanted a fr-FR NoZebra image with sample data, you could customize the base image
16:35 Kyle       gmcharlt: do you mean customize the base image and upload it as another downloadable option, or have the user download the image and then customize it? I imagine having it pre-customized would be better. We can always have a "If you are not sure which version to download, pick this one" option.
16:35 gmcharlt   the former
16:35 gmcharlt   the default image would serve two purposes
16:36 gmcharlt   1. version that allows a user to try out any combination of options
16:36 Kyle       Yes, I see. That sounds good to me.
16:36 gmcharlt   2. basis for a furhter-customized image that someone does and uploads
16:38 Kyle       yes. Essentially, we create version 1, then make copies of it and run the setup with whichever options we want, throw some items into the database, and uplaod it.
16:49 paul       gmcharlt: hdl_laptop is here now ;-)
16:50 gmcharlt   hi henri
16:53 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt
16:53 hdl_laptop paul told me you had a patch for subscriptions ?
16:53 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: bug 2297
16:54 gmcharlt   change will be to have ModBiblio live up to its name and modify only the bib portion, not change the items
16:54 gmcharlt   I'm writing a test case for it now
16:55 hdl_laptop Is it a problem of ModBiblio ???
16:56 hdl_laptop This would be surprising to me.
16:56 gmcharlt   a problem of its design, anyway
16:56 gmcharlt   it goes like this:
16:56 gmcharlt   1. retrieve MARC bib - it has items embedded in 952/955/whatever tags
16:56 gmcharlt   2. munge the bib (assume that you don't care about the items)
16:56 gmcharlt   3. call ModBiblio()
16:57 gmcharlt   what ModBiblio does is add all of the item tags from the original version of the bib
16:57 gmcharlt   to the MARC::Record that you passed in
16:57 gmcharlt   then save the bib to DB
16:57 gmcharlt   however, if you got that MARC::Record from GetBiblio
16:57 gmcharlt   it *already* has the item fields
16:57 gmcharlt   so ModBiblio will add them back
16:58 gmcharlt   most clients of ModBiblio remember to remove the item tags first before calling ModBiblio
16:58 gmcharlt   but not all
16:58 gmcharlt   if, on other hand, ModBiblio() ignores any item tags from the incoming bib, problem goes away - APIs like AddItem() shoudl be used to handle the items
17:01 hdl_laptop I trust you intestiguated more than me.
17:01 hdl_laptop I investiguated yesterday...
17:02 hdl_laptop And was surprised to see that PrepareItems would use AddItem but not link serial created with the itemnumber.
17:02 hdl_laptop but it was really late.
17:02 hdl_laptop So I can have overlooked some parameters.
17:03 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: that part is probably a separate issue from the creation of duplciate item tags
17:08 hdl_laptop ok.
17:08 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: are you sending your patch to the list or are you pushing it quite soon ?
17:08 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: I'll be sending patch to list soon
17:21 hdl_laptop thx gmcharlt
17:21 hdl_laptop bbs
17:40 rhcl       Anybody online here from LibLime? Maybe they are getting an early start for the holiday?
17:40 atz        yeah, several of us are here
17:40 atz        what's up?
17:41 acmoore    here!
17:41 atz        in fact, rhcl, from here you almost look like one of'm (that sometimes goes by "rch")
17:42 acmoore    yeah, I caught myself in a double-take over that, too.
17:44 nengard    i'm here too - wish i was getting an early holiday start!!
17:44 nengard    even though i just got off vaca
17:44 nengard    heh
17:44 atz        raining here...  :\
17:44 nengard    atz they say that's coming our way
17:44 gmcharlt   perfect day in Chicago
17:45 acmoore    we got a few inches of rain last night, designed just perfectly to try to prevent fires from the fireworks this weekend.
17:48 rhcl       I just received an inquiry from a major software vendor of ILS "accessories". I'd kinda like to ask a brief question via email or pm of someone who can better speak for the Koha community than me.
17:48 gmcharlt   rhc1: can it be asked publically on koha or koha-devel?
17:49 atz        koha has verifiable SIP support now, if that's the question.  :)
17:50 acmoore    gmcharlt, did you intend to add a "use CGI" in that patch you just sent me?
17:50 rhcl       Maybe it's not so critical, but I would prefer a direct email with someone.
17:50 gmcharlt   acmoore: yes, I did - required if you're running a single test class
17:51 rhcl       Oh, no, it's not about SIP.
17:51 acmoore    why? I don't see where it's used or anything.
17:51 gmcharlt   acmoore: startup_30_login
17:52 acmoore    gmcharlt, hmm. why was it working before?
17:52 acmoore    (I'm not saying you're doing it wrong. I'm just saying I don't see it yet)
17:52 gmcharlt   when running full test, CGI.pm must have been slurped in somewhere use
17:53 acmoore    weird. well, whatever. It's obviously used, so it should be "use"d
17:53 acmoore    OK. I'll apply this and try it out in a few minutes. good idea!
18:14 acmoore    gmcharlt, I'm taking a look at your patch to the test suite. Have a second?
18:14 gmcharlt   acmoore: ok
18:15 acmoore    I can't quite get it to work, I guess. I get a lot of errors about redefined subs and "cannot test anonymous subs - you probably loaded a Test::Class too late" and then the whole test suite still runs.
18:15 gmcharlt   acmoore: the TEST_FILES= is required
18:16 acmoore    on the command line?
18:16 gmcharlt   when you're using test-single - otherwise, defaults to database_dependent.pl, and has effect of trying to call runtests twice
18:16 gmcharlt   acmoore: yes
18:17 acmoore    I can't quite get it. What should the command line look like?
18:20 gmcharlt    make test-single TEST_FILES=lib/KohaTest/Biblio.pm
18:21 acmoore    aaahh.
18:22 atz        i would have been fooled by that into doing:  TEST_FILES=lib/KohaTest/Biblio.pm  make test-single
18:22 atz        like w/ other make vars
18:22 acmoore    atz, I was, too.
18:23 acmoore    gmcharlt, so, now it runs tests at least, but by running a few of them, I think I have my database well botched, so none of them really pass anymore.
18:23 gmcharlt   the one is setting an env var, the second is setting a make variable
18:24 acmoore    I'll run the whole suite again and see if I can restore the database enough to be usable again.
18:25 gmcharlt   acmoore: calculated risk - one could put the whole DB clearing step into the INIT, but that would mean slowing the tests
18:25 gmcharlt   long-term, IMO, better to design the test classes so that they can assume that the DB tables exist, but not make any particular assumptions about their contents, and to clean up after themselves
18:25 acmoore    gmcharlt, have you sucessfully used this in a test-code-test-code-test cycle?
18:25 gmcharlt   yes
18:26 acmoore    OK, then it's probably worth me signing off on.
18:26 hdl_laptop hi again
18:26 acmoore    I'd like to fix the docs, though. The commit message is misleading about the usage, I think.
18:26 gmcharlt   I'll fix it
18:26 acmoore    gmcharlt, can I edit the change before I sign it somehow?
18:26 gmcharlt   I see now that I missed the TEST_FILES=bit
18:26 acmoore    or, I guess, what's the procedure here?
18:27 gmcharlt   acmoore: better for me to resubmit
18:27 acmoore    OK. Whenever you get to it.
18:28 gmcharlt   semt
18:29 gmcharlt   sent, even
18:29 acmoore    gmcharlt, and then I have patches for the overdue notices script. I'm sure I've missed some stuff and could use a second pair of eyes if you get some time. Can you give me 20 minites or so?
18:30 gmcharlt   acmoore: sure, in about 10 minutes
18:33 acmoore    I'll mail them. You don't have to apply them, but I'm sure you'll see something like missing docs or something.
18:34 acmoore    gmcharlt, your patch signed and sent.
18:34 gmcharlt   thx
18:48 acmoore    gmcharlt, sent you 5 patches for 2274. If you get a moment to at least eyeball them, that would be great.
18:52 acmoore    is Fr?d?ric some kind of super-linguist? He deserves a cookie or something.
19:14 frederic   hello
19:14 frederic   Is there something wrong with koha-devel and koha-translate lists?
19:15 frederic   My messages appear in koha-devel hours after I post them
19:15 frederic   And don't appear at all in koha-translate
19:16 acmoore    I saw a recent post from you on the translate list.
19:16 acmoore    Here are some recent ones from you: http://koha.markmail.org/search/?q=frederic
19:16 acmoore    RTL language stuff?
19:17 frederic   acmoore: thanks. I haven't seen for koha-translate. Something wrong on my side
19:17 frederic   But it take forever to appear
19:17 frederic   Yes RTL
19:18 acmoore    oh, it looks like markmail may not be archiving koha-translate.
19:19 hdl_laptop frederic: I had to ackowledge your message.
19:19 hdl_laptop and had no internet connction.
19:20 frederic   hdl_laptop: thks. And why do you have to?
19:21 hdl_laptop you were not member on that email before posting.
19:22 hdl_laptop it seems.
19:22 frederic   koha-translate or koha-devel?
19:23 atz        OO barcodes modules sent.  nothing important yet, but pretty cool to look at (much better model for extension)
19:24 hdl_laptop koha-devel
19:24 hdl_laptop koha-translate, no message pending approval
19:25 hdl_laptop have you sent messages to that list recently ?
19:27 hdl_laptop I have one from you on that list in my box sent today.
19:27 hdl_laptop Koha Arabic Version
19:30 acmoore    atz++
19:32 frederic   atz: are you the one who know how to do OO programing in Perl?
19:32 atz        sure, it's not that hard
19:33 frederic   hdl_laptop: I sent 2 messages this morning (our morning) and no one appear immediatly, neither koha-devel nor koha-translate. And then I saw thme this evening.
19:33 atz        it's just very easy to do procedural stuff
19:34 atz        the SIP abstraction layer (ILS) is also OO
19:34 frederic   atz: for you, it's easy. What's very confusing in Context.pm is the mix OO/procedures
19:34 atz        yeah, that happens in many places
19:34 frederic   Yes, I've seen. Very clean design
19:34 atz        Dates.pm has that too, because it has legacy functions from Date.pm
19:35 frederic   I would be so easy to have for example a Syspref class which hide the implementation... No SQL UPDATE in the code...
19:35 frederic   Later
19:36 atz        frederic: yeah, that would be a good move
19:37 frederic   Does anybody know someone who had to deal with right-to-left language support in Koha?
19:37 frederic   I can see that there is an Hebrew translation for example
19:37 acmoore    I think gmcharlt is intending to write a mutator to let us set sysprefs without SQL.
19:37 frederic   a mutator! I have to google
19:38 atz        the Physics ppl in Islamabad probably did rtl, i think
19:39 acmoore    frederic, or a "setter", a method to let you write the value of an attribute.
19:39 frederic   what's strange is that rtl support requires specific care in template and CSS. For me it's not here yet. So I'm surprised there hasn't more feedback on that
19:39 frederic   acmoore: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutator_method
19:39 frederic   I found
19:56 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: I have seen that DelItem still required (dbh) to be passed along as parameter.
19:57 hdl_laptop I thought we decided not to pass dbh as function parameter but to use C4::Context->dbh
19:57 hdl_laptop just to point it.
19:57 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: evidently it got missed - I didn't add back the $dbh
20:33 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: Is there anyone at liblime who has jquery knowledge and is available interested  in what I have been doing on subscription-add.pl ?
20:33 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: I can take a look at it
20:34 gmcharlt   ccatalfo would be better, though
20:35 ccatalfo   hdl_laptop: i can take a look, too.  (I'm ok on jquery knowledge; not so good on koha knowledge)
20:35 hdl_laptop It is is a really poor state at the moment. I am full of  ideas. but has no time and little skills on jquery so that it takes me too much time.
20:39 ccatalfo   hdl_laptop: how far along have you gotten?  How much is left to be implemented?
21:04 acmoore    The recent email brought my attention to the 'select 1' clause in C4::Context::dbh. Is that just there to make sure that we're connected to a database? It seems like there might be a better way to do that.
21:04 acmoore    Isn't there a DBI::ping method or something? or, can we not depend on auto_reconnect to work?
21:05 acmoore    I guess I'm wondering what problem occurred that caused us to add that.
21:09 hdl_laptop ccatalfo_: couldnot get too far unfortunately.
21:10 hdl_laptop I detail in a mail.
21:22 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: got the email; will comment tomorrow
21:28 hdl_laptop thx.
21:36 ccatalfo_  hdl_laptop: thx for the email; i'll check it out tomorrow, too
21:36 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: is C4::Context->dbh access slower than passing dbh ?
21:37 hdl_laptop + I thought at first glance that dbh was not used in DelItem
21:37 hdl_laptop So that tehere would have been no good not to remove it from _koha_delete_item.
21:49 gmcharlt   hdl_laptop: marginally slower, perhaps - I just think it's one thing to not pass in $dbh in the public API, and a different in the private one
21:54 hdl_laptop I agree.
22:04 hdl_laptop getting tired.
22:04 hdl_laptop good night
22:04 hdl_laptop (midnight here)
22:54 rach       howdy
22:54 rach       I was thinking to put the venuzuala announcement on the koha website
22:54 rach       any objections?
22:54 masonj     oooh, great idea rach
07:22 mc         hello world
07:22 mc         désolé pour la grasse mat.: je viens juste d'arriver
07:25 mc         oopps ...  i'm on #koha ... not #koha-fr
07:25 mc         so please don't carre about the french line
07:25 mc         and excuse me
08:18 paul       mmm... investigating cpan mirrors, I find http://www.cs.uu.nl/stats/mirmon/cpan.html#fr
08:19 paul       that says there is something wrong with cpan.catalyst.net.nz ...
11:45 js         who know where is the firefox plugin to search in koha database ?
11:45 js         hi (before ;))