Time Nick Message 13:45 nengard lists question 13:45 nengard When managing lists on the staff side, there are three list options - what is the free list/open list? Where does it show up? I thought public lists showed whether you were logged in or not. 13:49 nengard nevermind - it's a bug 13:49 owen A bug?! 13:50 nengard hehe 13:50 nengard according to atz it's a bug he knows about :) 13:50 nengard how about this one? 13:50 nengard What's the difference between ReservesMaxPickUpDelay and holdCancelLength? They both look like number of days an item can sit on the hold shelf 13:51 atz nengard: i think the pickup delay is the time from when the book is "in hand" waiting for the holder 13:51 atz and the cancel length is the overall duration 13:51 atz which may be for a hold that *never* gets filled, 13:51 atz for ecample 13:51 atz *example 13:51 nengard hmmm - okay 13:52 atz but that's just based on discussion, not looking at the codebase 13:53 nengard it's a start 13:55 nengard i'm going to ask a whole bunch of questions to see if i can narrow down my long long list :) 13:55 nengard What is the 'Reports Dictionary'? 13:56 owen nengard: You can set definitions for particular groups of attributes in Guided Reports 13:57 owen So, I can define "Adult Women" as femail borrowers whose birthdates are after XXXX-XX-XX 13:57 owen It's a way to add shorthand to reports for easy re-use 13:58 owen Does that make any sense? 14:00 owen (...aside from my bad spelling) 14:10 nengard um ... re-reading :) 14:11 nengard it makes sense - but i'm not sure how to do it - off to my test site to poke and see if i can explain it a bit better ;) 14:12 nengard owen - here's a good question - where the heck did i see that in the first place? can't find a link to it ;) hehe 14:12 owen Guided Reports > View Dictionary 14:12 nengard ahh 14:12 nengard thanks 14:14 nengard okay - so i created a definition for women ... what do i do with that - will it be an option when creating a guided report? 14:15 nengard yep 14:15 nengard there it is 14:15 nengard neat 14:15 nengard okay 14:15 owen But now I'm confused...I thought could set up more than one parameter for the definition, but it's only showing me the dateofbirth option... 14:15 owen Maybe that's incomplete 14:16 owen No, there it is. I must have missed it before 14:16 owen Oh, it's just doing it the other way around now. Still only one option. 14:17 nengard hmmm 14:17 nengard i only tried it with one option 14:17 nengard so is there a bug to report here? 14:17 owen Well, I think it's just an example of an incomplete feature 14:17 owen A dictionary definition is really most useful if you can define multiple parameters (IMO) 14:17 nengard i agree 14:19 nengard you want me to submit a minor bug or enhancement request for this? 14:20 owen I'm not sure it's necessary. Guided Reports were begun with a full and detailed spec, funded in the beginning by my library 14:20 owen We ran out of money for it, so the completion is unfunded 14:21 owen I think this is a case where the manual needs to describe the behavior as-is, and keep our fingers crossed for the spec to be fully-realized 14:23 nengard you got it 14:23 nengard let's see - next question ... 14:24 nengard # Can people without permissions to catalog see items and cataloging data? - a read only type permission ... 14:25 owen In the MARC view 14:25 owen Is that not sufficient? 14:26 nengard i think so - my question is if they click on cataloging or on a record from the staff search will they see what the cataloger sees? the ability to click on the items tab and the normal tab? 14:27 nengard they being - people who do not have cataloging rights - like the ref staff 14:28 owen If you don't have cataloging permission, you shouldn't see any cataloging link. If you search for a book and pull up its record, you won't see the 'edit' buttons, but you'll get all the 'view' optiosn 14:28 nengard what about the items? 14:28 nengard maybe i should create a user and play with them - that would make sense - wouldn't it ;) hehe 14:29 owen Yeah, if you're trying to understand permissions that's the best way 14:29 nengard okay 14:29 acmoore owen, is that partially completed spec for the dictionary stuff recorded somewhere, like bugzilla or wiki or something? Even if it's never done as was envisioned, sometimes it's helpful to understand what was in the minds of the original designers 14:29 nengard next 14:30 owen Non-cataloger users can see item information via the MARC view and via the 'Items' tab on the left of the normal view 14:30 owen acmoore: I don't think so, but Liblime drew up the spec, so you should be able to track it down. 14:30 acmoore OK. thanks. next 14:31 nengard next 14:32 nengard sys pref gist is set to 0 - shouldn't this make the GST line on basket.pl go away? 14:33 owen I'd want to check with hdl or paul on that one 14:33 nengard okay - next :) btw - owen you're awesome :) 14:34 nengard finesMode - will it send an email (if set to 'test') for every fine accrued? what does the report look like 14:34 owen No idea. (How's that for awesome!) 14:35 nengard hehe ;) no prob 14:35 nengard i'll find another - i have plenty 14:35 owen finesMode is actually a new one to me...I should be checking that in the template on some screens 14:36 owen Like, hide the 'charges' column when finesMode is set to off. 14:36 owen At least that's how I understand it 14:36 nengard okay - this one may be a known bug, I just want to check on it 14:36 nengard After creating a public list it didn't show up under the lists 14:38 owen Hmm... Creating a list in the staff client? 14:38 nengard i should have written that in my notes - i think it was the opac 14:38 nengard let me try again 14:39 nengard okay - opac - here are my steps 14:40 nengard 1 - search 14:40 nengard 2 - click save to lists on a result 14:40 nengard 3 - create new list 14:40 nengard 4 click save 14:40 nengard 5 - click lists button next to cart 14:40 nengard 6 - my new public list isn't there 14:41 nengard but it does show up here: koha/opac-shelves.pl?display=publicshelves 14:41 owen Yeah, that's kind of a bug. The page with the lists button doesn't refresh, so it doesn't have the new list data to display 14:42 owen ..since the list was added in a pop-up window. 14:42 nengard yeah ... that makes sense 14:43 nengard should I report this? or is it not fixable? 14:44 owen I think it's fixable. I don't know how involved it would be, but it's worth a bug report. 14:44 nengard okey dokey 14:44 nengard next: # Item public note doesn't actually display for items. Is this set to not display? 14:44 owen I notice you can choose to create a public list if you go through the 'manage lists' page 14:44 owen Sorry--you /can't/ choose to create a public list 14:45 owen Public note doesn't display where? In the OPAC? The staff client? 14:45 owen Both, probably. I'll bet it only displays in the MARC view 14:47 nengard owen - wait - confused - when creating lists I do have public as an option .... 14:47 nengard public note doesn't appear in either 14:48 owen nengard: you have public as an option on this page? /cgi-bin/koha/opac-shelves.pl?shelves=1 14:48 owen ...or in the pop-up window from search results? 14:49 nengard pop up window from search results - this page i've never seen before :) 14:49 owen Hunh? 14:49 nengard hehe 14:50 nengard sorry 14:50 nengard how do you get tot his page? 14:50 nengard ohhhh - its the link on the manage lists page 14:50 owen Yes 14:50 nengard k - i never created a list that way 14:51 nengard i always did it from the detail page or search results 14:51 owen Yeah, it's not the most practical way 14:51 nengard while we're on this topic - shouldn't there by a My Lists tab on the profile?? 14:51 owen Yes. 14:53 owen I see public note in the MARC view both in the staff client and the OPAC, but I don't see it anywhere else 14:53 nengard right 14:53 owen I don't know if there is a standard usage for that, but "public" certainly implies it should appear in the OPAC. 14:54 nengard hehe - that's what I thought 14:54 nengard and there isn't a standard use for it that I know of - not on item records 14:54 owen And wasn't someone asking about an item "private" note? 14:54 nengard so - that's one enh request for the my lists tab and one bug report for this public note thing? 14:54 nengard owen - yes 14:54 nengard we had a customer asking about that 14:57 owen So what would you put in a public note? The thing that comes to mind is information about damage to an item 14:57 nengard yep - that's all i can think of too 14:57 nengard but i've never working in a public library - who knows - maybe you'd want a note about an included CD? 14:58 owen That information should be in the description already 14:58 nengard when demoing librarians seemed happy about that option 14:58 nengard yeah it should 14:58 nengard maybe one has a missing CD ... which falls under damage 14:58 nengard who knows 14:58 nengard hehe 14:59 owen brb, phone 15:11 nengard welcome back 15:11 nengard updating my notes and bugs 15:14 nengard owen - did we go over this one? it sounds familiar: On aqbudget.pl the search at the top shouldn't be for the catalog but for funds 15:15 nengard paul do you know the answer to this one? sys pref gist is set to 0 - shouldn't this make the GST line on basket.pl go away? 15:15 paul iirc, it's the taxes rate. 15:15 paul 5.5% in France for example. 15:15 paul (0.055) 15:16 atz it should display, as zero, imho 15:17 nengard atz - but if you don't have gist then why have it there at all? 15:17 atz so you know you don't have any. 15:17 nengard hehe 15:17 atz it will vary by vendor, btw. 15:17 nengard not if the library is a non-profit 15:17 nengard there is no tax 15:18 nengard like the library who asked the question 15:18 atz foreign purchases 15:18 atz ? 15:18 nengard they don't make any 15:18 nengard it's a US public library 15:18 nengard not an academic library - who are more likely to make foreign purchases 15:18 ryan in dev_week, gst is hidden if set to zero 15:19 nengard it jsut seems that if you disable it it shouldn't show up 15:19 nengard ryan - what does that mean? 15:19 nengard it should be hidden? 15:19 nengard or it was at some time? 15:19 ryan both :) 15:20 nengard so it's a bug that it's showing up again ?? 15:20 atz no 15:20 nengard k 15:20 atz dev_week is a branch version of koha 15:20 nengard oh 15:20 ryan perhaps we need an extra syspref 15:20 ryan but nobody here in the us wants that line to show up afaict 15:21 nengard okay - so enhancement request? 15:21 ryan yeah, i guess so. 15:21 nengard k 15:22 nengard just trying to go through all my notes and clear up some unfinished items - and unanswered questions 15:22 ryan i see atz's point that it should show zero if you _might_ have gst but don't 15:22 nengard i understand too 15:25 nengard thanks owen 15:27 nengard here's a toughy - I think 15:27 nengard borrowerRelationship what if the parent doesn't have a card and you're entering a child type patron - do you have to pick one of these? can it be left blank? should we put null values in this preference? 15:29 owen It's not required to enter guarantor information, if that's what you're asking? 15:30 atz i don't see the problem of making the parent get a card first. 15:30 owen atz: it's a library policy question 15:30 owen You'll get a lot of different opinions on that one 15:31 atz otherwise, just make the kid an independent account, right 15:31 nengard owen - that was what i was asking - thanks for the answer 15:31 atz ? 15:31 nengard atz - i'm not sure - i'm just repeating a question from a public library ... and one that i wanted to clarify in my manual 15:31 owen atz, when you add a juvenile patron it offers you the 'Guarantor' fields 15:31 atz right 15:32 owen nengard: Maybe if borrowerRelationship is empty the Guarantor fields should be omitted? 15:32 nengard owen - probably - cause wouldn't it cause a graphical error if the pull down was empty? 15:33 owen It's just strange to have an empty select 15:33 nengard yep 15:34 owen Uh oh, looks like uploading patron images is broken? 15:34 atz crap, again? 15:34 nengard owen atz - bugger!!! when did that break?? 15:35 atz no idea. 15:36 owen I can't even click the 'upload patron images' link from tools-home.pl. I'm prompted to download the perl file 15:36 atz sounds bad 15:36 owen Hm, but maybe my system? 15:36 owen Can't locate Image/Magick.pm in @INC 15:37 atz ah, yeah, I think that dependency slipped in 15:37 atz recently a patch got sent to account for it, not pushed up yet 15:38 atz cpan Image::Magick; # should fix it 15:40 owen atz, this is on arwen. Aren't others testing on that machine? 15:40 atz yes, let me check config 15:42 owen nengard: a benefit of working from home, I presume? 15:42 nengard owen - yeppers ;) 15:43 nengard sys pref SubscriptionHistory what is the diff between the options? 15:43 atz owen: cpan fails... looking at aptitude 15:46 atz owen: ok, try again 15:47 owen No luck 15:48 atz same behavior? ok, i guess I'll try the cpan now that the binaries are in 15:48 atz same failure. hrm. 15:49 ryan libimage-magick-perl ? 15:50 atz attempting 15:52 atz (points to perlmagick) 15:53 atz ok, that worked fine. 15:54 atz FYI: 15:54 atz Unpacking perlmagick (from .../perlmagick_7%3a6.2.4.5.dfsg1-0.14_i386.deb) ... 15:54 atz Setting up perlmagick (6.2.4.5.dfsg1-0.14) ... 15:54 atz the cpan version that failed XS make was 6.40 16:01 owen Good news: not broken :) 16:01 owen atz, I hope all your other secret wishes come true too ;) 16:05 nengard hehe 17:07 nengard does anyone have a screenshot of a patron's record with overdue fines on the account? if so - can i see it? I need to see what it looks like so i can fake it on my demo site :) 17:38 owen nengard: You may have to set your loan period to one day, turn fines on, and see what happens 17:38 nengard owen - can't - josh has the cron turned off on my system for fines :) 17:38 owen Oh, I see 17:39 owen Sheesh, doesn't anyone use fines? 17:39 nengard you can if you want :) hehe 17:46 nengard owen i got a comment today that the series on the opac should be linked - i agree - why is the pubilsher linked, but not the series? 17:46 owen I don't see why it shouldn't be 17:47 owen (this is another case where kados will shout: XSL!) 17:48 owen Hm...looks like it's linked here: http://oleonard.dev.kohalibrary.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=254 17:50 nengard huh - mine is to: http://opac-nce.dev.kohalibrary.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=259 17:50 nengard must be the version they have 17:50 owen Could be a question of regular vs. XSL 17:51 nengard here's the question as they worded it - I think i'm confused 17:51 nengard Series fields are missing in records. For example, search 'sunrise' by karen kingsbury. It mentions the series in the title, but there is no link that will just bring up items in that series. Also search daughters of Lancaster county. 'Storekeepers daughter' comes up, and it is in the "D or L. C." series, but I cannot see any indication of it in the regular record. It would also be nice to have the number in the series. 17:52 owen Could they be talking about the search results screen? 17:55 nengard hmmmm 17:55 nengard maybe 17:56 nengard let me ask them to clarify 18:02 nengard email sent 18:02 nengard detail page question - I don't have a sample of this - what happens if a book has more than one ISBN (020) or if the 020 has text in it - like 'pbk' etc? 18:05 owen There does seem to be a problem with that display 18:16 owen Can anyone tell me how to run fines2.pl manually? 18:17 owen nengard: It seems like ISBN is truncated by opac-detail if there is 'extra' text: http://oleonard.dev.kohalibrary.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=254 18:18 nengard owen - bug?? cause I think it is - but what does everyone else think? also if there are 2 020 fields they should both show 18:19 nengard and which 020 wins the battle? the first or the one that's numerically first? 18:19 owen Yeah, it's a bug. It looks like it's because opac-detail pulls the isbn from the biblioitems table, and the isbn column in that table is limited to...what is it now? 13? 18:24 nengard 13 18:26 owen I'm not sure there's any reason for there to be a small limit on that field, other than saving some resources 18:27 owen Obviously no one planned for there to be anything other than one clean isbn number in there 18:27 owen Which isn't surprising: a programmer is going to think, ISBN's a number with a fixed length, right? So we need a column with a fixed length 18:27 owen Then you get catalogers tossing who knows what in there 18:28 atz owen: most displays now use a "clean" isbn, since the amazon, syndetics, google content relies on it 18:28 owen But we're talking about showing the ISBN as it is in the MARC record 18:29 owen ...which is different. There might be additional text, or there might be more than one attached to one record 18:29 atz yeah, some ppl mentioned that already 18:29 owen "014-0-503-96X (pbk.-)" 18:29 atz right 18:30 owen Another argument for the XSL version of opac-detail 18:31 atz i'm still amazed at a system that sets up a field for an IDENTIFIER and then allows users to add free text to it. 18:31 atz wtg MARC21. 18:31 owen :D 18:32 nengard hehe 18:33 owen atz, I'll bet you know how to run fines2.pl from the command line. Can you help me with that? 18:34 atz let me check 18:37 atz looks rather undocumented (internally) 18:38 atz doesn't appear to take any arguments 18:39 owen Can you give me the idiots guide? :) 18:39 atz KOHA_CONF=/abs/path/to/my/koha-conf.xml 18:40 atz export KOHA_CONF 18:41 atz PERL5LIB=/path/to/under_C4 18:41 atz export PERL5LIB 18:41 atz perl /path/to/fines2.pl 18:42 owen /path/to/under_C4 ? 18:42 owen the parent directory? 18:42 atz right, in my case: 18:42 atz PERL5LIB=/home/atz/koha/production/koha 18:42 owen k 18:42 atz b/c my C4 is: PERL5LIB=/home/atz/koha/production/koha/C4 18:43 atz that statement is what allows all perl's "use C4::Whatever;" to succeed 18:43 nengard i think the answer to this is easy to figure out - but i want to check - the my reading history tab on the opac - does this nead to have the circ history turned on in the sys preferences? if it does (like i think) and circ history is off - what happens with this tab? 18:44 owen Yes, and it should disappear 18:44 nengard thanks 18:44 nengard i'll mark that in the manual 18:45 owen atz: I got an error, starting with "Can't connect to data source dbname=__DB_NAME__;" 18:45 nengard owen - opacreadinghistory and intranetreadinghistory - or just opacreadinghistory 18:46 owen one controls the opac and the other the staff client 18:46 nengard right - so if opac is off the tab won't be there ... but technically the history is still kept - that's important to note for privacy reasons 18:46 atz owen: are you using the right KOHA_CONF file? 18:47 atz sounds like you are using the one that isn't installed 18:48 owen the one in koha/etc 18:49 atz looks like you have 3 there 18:50 atz /home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-production-httpd.conf 18:50 atz /home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-production-npl.conf 18:50 atz /home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-testing-httpd.conf 18:50 owen Sorry, I was looking at /home/oleonard/koha/production/koha/etc 18:52 atz looks like your active apache config references 18:52 atz SetEnv KOHA_CONF "/home/oleonard/koha/etc/koha-production.xml" 18:52 owen Okay, tried that and got "Died at fines2.pl line 44." 18:53 atz so that is probably the right one 18:53 owen open (FILE,'>/tmp/fines') || die; 18:53 owen So the tmp directory is inaccessible? 18:55 atz heh... crappy static temp naming convention 18:55 atz atz@arwen:~/koha/production/koha$ ls -l /tmp/fines 18:55 atz -rw-r--r-- 1 gmc gmc 0 2008-03-18 17:49 /tmp/fines 18:55 atz no yuo overwrite GMC's file! 18:55 atz but i'll kill that, since it's empty 18:56 atz ok, pls try again 18:56 owen Can't call method "output" on an undefined value at /home/oleonard/koha/production/koha/C4/Calendar.pm line 525. 18:57 atz hrm... my Calendar.pm doesn't have a line that matches that at 525 18:57 owen my ($yearFrom,$monthFrom,$dayFrom) = split("-",$startdate->output('iso')); 18:58 nengard question about 'my purchase suggestions' has this page been fixed to only show 'my' suggestions? or is it still showing all suggestions? 18:58 owen nengard: I think there was a related patch recently, and I haven't seen if it's gone through or not. 18:58 atz ok, that makes sense now... it's an error from the output operation on a Dates object 18:58 acmoore is this fines2.pl? It needs a little updating, I guess. 18:58 atz yeah, i'm sure it does 18:59 nengard thanks owen 19:01 acmoore nengard, how do you anticipate documenting the handful of cronjobs that koha has? I didn't really see anything in the manual. 19:01 atz owen: not sure where the "daysBetween" is getting called from though 19:02 nengard i don't know what they all are - when one is required that i know of - i put a note that say contact a system admin - if i create a doc will you start listing them? I can make it look pretty and add content if i just have minimal info .... 19:02 atz acmoore: something like "cronjobs should be managed by your system administrator" and then run and hide 19:02 acmoore atz++ 19:02 nengard atz hehe - that's what it says - word for word :) 19:02 nengard but really acmoore is right 19:02 nengard it should be in there 19:03 acmoore nengard, I'm editing a couple of them now, so I'll make sure that I produce something useful for you. If you point me at a good place, I can put content in there when I'm done. 19:03 atz depends on the purpose of the document. For a user manual, no. For a system admin guide, yes. 19:04 acmoore some of them are almost required to make koha work rationally, so they should at least be mentioned. 19:04 atz yeah 19:04 nengard acmoore doc shared with you 19:04 acmoore OK. 19:04 nengard the manual is for users and sys admins 19:08 atz owen: I'll hack on that script really quick 19:09 owen Is it possible to set up a page where users can run scripts like fines2.pl with the click of a button if no one has configured cronjobs? 19:10 atz owen: I'm not sure that would work for all of them 19:11 atz and some depend regular execution to avoid error 19:11 nengard owen i like that idea for any scripts that can work that way 19:12 nengard i'm quitting for the day - enjoy your long weekend US residents - see you all on Tues (if I can resist the urge to log in while on break) 19:16 atz gah.... CalcFine went from 3 arguments (as in fines2) up to 7 19:17 acmoore it's a good thing they're named arguments. o.O 19:17 atz yeah... i wish 19:22 atz would be nice if the author had prototyped the sub too... that way we would have known from the beginning where the error was 19:23 atz when perl would complain "3 args is not enough you cheap bastard!" 19:25 acmoore Oh, I never use prototypes. They confuse me. 20:47 owen atz, thanks for your help with fines2.pl