Time  Nick           Message
13:26 paul           'morning owen
13:26 owen           Hi paul
13:54 owen           What is stored in items.location? In my sample data it's 0,1,2,3, or 4. What does that represent?
14:01 paul           owen : in my installs, it usually contains the "room" where the books are stored.
14:01 paul           physical location  = branch+location+callnumber
14:02 owen           Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder why the sample data has those numbers...
14:51 fbcit          g'morning koha
14:51 owen           Hi fbcit
15:10 fbcit          owen: I notice at members.pl when I click on a letter in "Browse by last name" the single downward arrow in the "New" button becomes two.
15:10 fbcit          I seem to remember this happening elsewhere too.
15:11 owen           What's your browser and platform?
15:11 fbcit          Firefox && Fedora 7
15:11 fbcit          it does not happen with every such button, only with some.
15:12 paul           owen : the same problem appears sometimes for me, in many places (biblio edit for example, or "More" button)
15:13 owen           Hunh... I can't duplicate the problem in any of my Windows browsers
15:14 fbcit          paul: are you using firefox on *nix?
15:16 fbcit          owen: does setting the yui path to local in the staff client also set it local in opac?
15:17 owen           Yes
15:19 fbcit          owen: I notice if I shift the focus, the double arrows disappear.
15:24 owen           What kind of search is being performed by addbooks.pl?  Title? Keyword?
15:30 paul           fbcit: yep, using FF on linux
15:30 paul           owen : title & isbn if I don't mind
15:31 owen           The results of a search from addbooks.pl don't match OPAC search results by keyword /or/ title
15:34 fbcit          morning gmcharlt
15:34 gmcharlt       hi fbcit
15:34 fbcit          how was camp?
15:35 gmcharlt       went OK
15:36 gmcharlt       a couple technical glitches, but nobody fell asleep :)
15:36 paul           hello gmcharlt.
15:36 gmcharlt       hi paul
15:36 paul           a session without technical glitches wouldn't be a "normal" session...
15:37 fbcit          hehe
15:41 fbcit          can an item be categorized under multiple item types? (ie. Reference && Language)
15:43 gmcharlt       fbcit: an item can have only one item type -- at least for item-level item types, it's mostly for setting circulation policies, although also affects display (e.g., the icon in the search results)
15:44 gmcharlt       there isn't a direct equivalent to something like an item statistical category with which you might classify items (although something like Language as an item category is more of a bibish data element -- can get a little fuzzy)
15:46 fbcit          gmcharlt: so item type is really a very broad category?
15:47 owen           fbcit: Yes. As gmcharlt said, it's primarily used for setting circulation rules
15:48 owen           At NPL we've been using a combination of itemtype and collection code for finer classification
15:48 owen           I'm not sure how that's going to work out in 3.0
15:48 fbcit          gmcharlt: so say I have a college course that proscribes reading in certain categories. Would the best approach be to setup virtual shelves to "house" volumes which fall w/in those categories?
15:48 fbcit          or owen
15:48 fbcit          or :)
15:48 gmcharlt       fbcit: a list/virtual shelf would be one way of doing it, yes
15:48 owen           It sounds like you're talking about subject headings
15:49 owen           If you're talking about a virtual shelf, you have complete control over what to put on the shelf
15:49 gmcharlt       I agree with owen; subject headings might also be a good way of doing it - depends on whether the criteria lasts for all time or (for a course reading list) is more transitory
15:50 owen           If it needs to be more dynamic, you could build a search that hits only the relevant titles, based on any combination of item type, subject, etc.
15:50 fbcit          this would be a bit more specific than what I imagine a subject heading to be
15:52 fbcit          ie. we have a course entitled Theological Readings which encompasses reading from various theologians of the contemporary (late 19th cen to present). It would be nice for a student to be able to pull a list of available books that fall in that vein.
15:53 fbcit          perhaps a virtual shelf might be more appropriate for that purpose?
15:55 gmcharlt       fbcit: yes, I think so
15:55 fbcit          thanks gmcharlt && owen
15:56 fbcit          it is also very helpful to the uninitiated to know that item type is primarily a circ categorization.
15:57 gmcharlt       owen: I want to add a fragment link in the catalogue reservoir serach (cataloging/addbooks.pl) to jump down to the list of bibs from the reservoir (for cases where there are a lot of search results from the main cataloging) -- such a link would go near the top, near the new button
15:57 gmcharlt       is there a existing convetion for styling such a jump link?
15:57 owen           I saw that bug report.
15:58 gmcharlt       yep, it's 1893
15:58 owen           There's not. I thought you might add it to the same line that describes the results found in the catalog
15:58 owen           So you'd have: "11 results found in the catalog. 12 results found in the reservoir"
15:59 owen           With the jump link wrapped around the "12 results found..."
16:00 gmcharlt       owen: sounds good -- I'll do that
16:01 owen           gmcharlt-phone: I would have done it myself, but it didn't look like there was a variable available for the reservoir results count
16:02 gmcharlt-phone owen: yeah, I need to add that count
16:18 MatthewMetzger Hello
16:18 MatthewMetzger Does anyone have qiqo's email address?
16:18 MatthewMetzger I've been trying to connect with qiqo about how (s)he solved his search problem with 3.0
16:19 MatthewMetzger Time zones are making it difficult on the chat channel
16:32 fbcit          owen: cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/search.pl does not display the images for item types
16:32 fbcit          here at least
16:33 fbcit          it appears to be looking here: /opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/Non-fiction.gif
16:33 fbcit          for the source
16:33 owen           That sounds right
16:34 fbcit          the image exists on my system at that location
16:35 fbcit          problem is, the docroot for the staff client is /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs
16:35 fbcit          so maybe we should be looking here: /intranet-tmpl/prog/img/itemtypeimg/Non-fiction.gif
16:37 fbcit          but that does not fix it either :(
16:37 owen           In my installation I have a symlink from koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/img to opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg
16:39 fbcit          actually that does work
16:39 fbcit          owen: you're running a dev install?
16:40 owen           I'm working on an installation that Liblime set up for me
16:41 fbcit          in any case, I don't think that a relative ref to /opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/foo.gif will resolve from w/in the staff client
16:42 fbcit          I'm curious, if you open that screen what does firebug say those references are?
16:42 owen           background-image:url(/opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/Video-disc.gif);
16:44 gmcharlt-phone fbcit: may or not be directly related; I submitted a patch recently to copy the staff and OPAC itemtypeimg directories and make them separate, instead of having a symlink
16:44 fbcit          <img border="0" alt="Non-fiction" src="/opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/Non-fiction.gif"/>
16:45 fbcit          gmcharlt-phone: I was just checking the history on a few things :)
16:45 nengard        morning all
16:45 fbcit          I think getitemtypeimagesrc() needs to be told where it was called from
16:45 fbcit          morning nengard
16:46 fbcit          gmcharlt: I'll work on fixing that this afternoon
16:48 fbcit          I knew I remember this issue: getitemtypeimagesrc() has a conditional for where it was called from (I added it)..
16:49 fbcit          fixed
16:51 fbcit          patch emailed
16:51 fbcit          tnx owen, gmcharlt again
17:49 owen           fbcit: does getitemtypeimagesrc handle remote images?
17:49 kados          g'morning Koha
17:49 owen           Hi kados
17:49 kados          dependent on timezone I suppose
17:58 owen           So what's new kados?
17:58 kados          not much, portland's nice :-)
17:58 kados          I had a good mtg with hdl last night, over a few drinks
17:58 kados          plotting the future of Koha :-)
17:59 kados          owen:  sounds like i need to give you some better sample data
17:59 kados          that has item-level call numbers
18:00 kados          hmmm, though looking at the sample batch in your home dir, it does have item-level call numbers
18:02 kados          not all the records though, I see
18:03 owen           enough to get the idea
18:03 kados          owen: you are, i assume, aware of the safari cart issue, where the label is beneath the icon?
18:03 kados          not a huge bug, just noticed it in safari
18:04 owen           Yes. Internet Explorer 6 has even more serious problems with the cart and list buttons
18:04 owen           I've been working on it over the last few days, without much success
18:04 kados          ahh, that's a priority :-)
18:04 kados          so one question I have regarding itemtype images in results lists, the current design makes sense for when there's only one itemtype per bib, but what about when you've got several?
18:05 kados          shoud the itemtypes 'stack' side by side like the call numbers do?
18:06 owen           How do you get several itemtypes per bib?
18:06 kados          turn on item-level itemtypes, and catalog some items with different itemtypes
18:08 kados          huh, your default framework doesn't have itemtype defined
18:08 kados          nor your other frameworks
18:11 kados          ahh, it's there
18:11 kados          but the display in the frameowrks only goes up to x
18:11 kados          y and z are visible when you click on edit
18:13 kados          owen: do you ever recall a 'browse' feature with the spydus system?
18:14 owen           Yes, vaguely
18:14 kados          this gets to your question about lists and call numbers, etc.
18:15 kados          in most systems, when you do a call number browse, it will show each unique call number separately, and if that means repeating titles, so be it
18:16 kados          I _think_ that's also the way a call number search is 'supposed' to work
18:37 owen           Hi qiqo, MatthewMetzger  was looking for you earlier
18:54 qiqo           hi owen
18:54 qiqo           ohh sorry i was busy doing some stuff here
18:54 qiqo           so he hasnt solved his problem yet?
18:54 owen           I don't know, he was asking for your email address
18:54 qiqo           hmm..
18:55 qiqo           im still noob lolz
18:55 qiqo           so i might not help him
18:55 qiqo           anyway,, incase you catch him again my email is qiqo _at_ upilis.org
18:56 kados          fbcit: you around?
19:14 fbcit          yup
19:15 fbcit          owen: I don't think so
19:18 fbcit          owen: it merely concatenates the sysprefs for intrahtdocs/opachtdocs, and template with the imagetype path
19:18 fbcit          then returns it to the caller
19:19 fbcit          ie. return C4::Context->config('opachtdocs') . '/' . C4::Context->preference('template') . '/itemtypeimg';
19:19 fbcit          results in
19:19 fbcit           /opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/
19:19 fbcit          on my installation
19:19 owen           Have you seen the "remote image" option in admin/itemtypes ?
19:19 fbcit          yes
19:20 fbcit          but I have not messed with it any
19:20 fbcit          is it broken?
19:21 owen           It is in some cases
19:21 fbcit          I would think it is looking for a complete uri maybe?
19:22 owen           It is, but in some places Koha tries to build a link to /opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/http://path.to.remote.image.gif
19:22 qiqo           i have a question, where do you exactly modify the yui path of opac?
19:22 fbcit          owen:can you point me to where it tries that
19:22 qiqo           i cant seem to see it in syspref > opac
19:23 fbcit          qiqo: under admin-staff client
19:23 owen           qiqo: YUI path is the same for staff client and opac
19:23 qiqo           ah ok...
19:23 qiqo           already changed that.. but my opac is still slow
19:25 owen           fbcit: opac-detail, for instance
19:26 owen           ...unless I'm looking at changes in my system that haven't made it to you yet
19:27 kados          fbcit: I'm thinking we need a new syspref that's a choice about which field to associate with a given icon
19:27 kados          fbcit: based on the use cases I've just compiled, it looks like there are some libraries that want a material-type at the bib level, some that want itemtype at the item level and some that want collection code (items.ccode) at the item level
19:29 fbcit          kados: I do think that piggybacking on the itemtypes for advanced searches is a bit confusing if one does not understand the intended use of itemtype categories.
19:30 gmcharlt-conf  for bib-level stuff, may want multiple images for bib
19:30 gmcharlt-conf  e.g., format, adult/juvenile reading level (from fixed fields), etc.
19:31 fbcit          the advanced search page of the Athens opac does a nice job of granulating searches
19:32 owen           ...but it's true that using those images to denote different search types is confusing because those same images are used to refer to specific collection codes elsewhere
19:32 fbcit          gmcharlt-conf: yup
19:34 fbcit          owen brings up a good point: the "meaning" associated with a given image by a user should probably remain consistent throughout in order to avoid confusion
19:38 kados          gmcharlt-conf also makes a good point that bib-level icons can be of more than one type
19:39 kados          ie, format vs audience vs content
19:40 fbcit          right, so the icons always mean the same thing, but appear in a variety of contexts
19:41 fbcit          ie. non-fiction is always non-fiction but may apply to item type, search scope, content, etc.
19:42 kados          well, the current iconset was developed for NPL
19:43 kados          and they use icons for 'collections'
19:43 kados          a collection is often a combination of a format, audience, and sometimes content
19:43 kados          so for example, Juvenile Non-Fiction would be one of NPL's collections
19:44 kados          it's both a audience (Juvenile) and a content designation (non-fiction)
19:46 fbcit          it appears that the icons in the current code are associated with item type categories which are used to determine circ rules?
19:46 kados          yes, that's historical
19:46 fbcit          so the whole thing needs to be revamped
19:46 fbcit          the use of images that is
19:47 kados          handling icons for display should be refactored IMO
19:47 fbcit          so your initial suggestion was a syspref to accomplish that?
19:48 kados          well, in thinking about it, sysprefs may be too simplistic
19:48 kados          but basically, we've got libraries that will want to maintain the status quo
19:48 kados          ie, a single bib-level icon
19:49 kados          we've got libraries that will want multiple bib-level icons, for each designation (format, audience, content, etc.)
19:49 kados          we've got libraries that will want item-level icons for itemtypes and/or collections
19:49 kados          some libraries might want all of the above! :-)
19:50 fbcit          let's go for pleasing all of the people all of the time ;-)
19:50 kados          and I'm not sure the current iconset will handle all of these cases ... and I'm thinking we should have a 16x16 iconset too, the current one is 32x32 I think
19:50 kados          fbcit: I like the way you think :-0
19:50 kados          :-)
19:52 fbcit          owen: I just entered a bogus external image (helloworld.jpg) and now when I go back to an "internal" image, the img ref is hidden on the form???
19:53 fbcit          owen: I have to go early today, but I'll look at this issue later this evening or tomorrow and get at least the current code working correctly.
20:00 fbcit          well, I found the problem and will fix it tonight
20:00 kados          fbcit: any ideas for how to accomplish a more flexible icon display?
20:00 kados          oops, cya later
20:01 fbcit-away     kados: I'll think about it and let you know what I think this evening
20:01 fbcit-away     bbl
20:02 kados          cya
21:11 MatthewMetzger Hello, I've been working on my koha 3 search problem some more and still have not been able to solve my problem. Is there any utility to check the mysql database to make sure that everything is in the right place?
23:04 MatthewMetzger kados: do you have a few minutes for a 2.2.9 question concerning a script you sent me last summer?
23:58 fbcit          kados around?
00:19 tinaburger     hdl: ?
00:19 tinaburger     are you there?
00:20 tinaburger     does anyone on the channel now have information about the 'IssuingInProcess' system preference?
00:20 tinaburger     help would be much appreciated :)
00:21 chris          yep
00:21 chris          say you have $5 limit
00:21 tinaburger     ok
00:21 tinaburger     hi chris :)
00:21 chris          and a borrower rocks up with 5 books
00:22 chris          and $4 in charges owing
00:22 chris          now 1 of the books has a rental charge of $1
00:22 chris          (hi :))
00:22 chris          so we issue that book
00:22 chris          bam, $5
00:22 chris          can no longer issue the other 4
00:22 chris          issuing in process will let you continue issuing to that borrower
00:23 tinaburger     ah, so it lets you override the fines module settings for s specific transaction?
00:23 tinaburger     or, does it automatically?
00:23 tinaburger     is there like an 'override' button in the checkout screen
00:23 chris          nope
00:23 masonj         its a global override ?
00:24 tinaburger     ok, another question
00:24 chris          it does it automatically for that session .. ie if the user started under the limit but during that session hit the limit
00:24 tinaburger     but if he comes up and already has $5 in fines
00:24 chris          no issues
00:24 tinaburger     and this preference is enabled then he can't issue
00:24 chris          no
00:24 chris          if the issuing limit is enabled
00:24 tinaburger     'no' meaning i said it right? ;)
00:24 chris          and set at $5
00:25 chris          issuinginprocess doesnt block issues
00:25 tinaburger     ok i understand
00:25 tinaburger     thank you so much!!!
00:25 chris          no worries
00:26 chris          its only really useful for libraries that charge for issues
00:26 chris          (which quite a few do .. for dvd etc)
00:27 tinaburger     wait: but it means that patron comes up to renew an item that already has the charge on it
00:27 tinaburger     and has other items too
00:28 MatthewMetzger I've given up on my 3.0 upgrade for now and I'm back to trying to fix some smaller errors in 2.2.9.
00:28 tinaburger     because that's the only time a charge would suddenly be incurred
00:28 tinaburger     during checkout process
00:29 chris          not nessecarily
00:29 MatthewMetzger The call number doesn't show up, even though it has been entered in 942k. kados helped me out with this last summer by giving me a script, but that script must not work anymore (I've upgraded since that script was first used, I think).
00:29 chris          he might come up with a new dvd to checkout which incurs a charge
00:31 tinaburger     ah, so not necessariy 'late' fees
00:31 tinaburger     but fees
00:31 tinaburger     in general
00:31 chris          yes
00:31 tinaburger     now i understand
00:31 tinaburger     thank you chris!
00:31 tinaburger     i'm headed out for a bit
00:33 MatthewMetzger Any ideas on why the dewey call number isn't showing in the bib view on 2.2.9? Should I worry about this before attempting upgrading to 3.o again?
00:34 chris          if its in the data, i wouldnt worry
00:35 MatthewMetzger chris: it does seem to be entered for every item, just not showing up in the opac search for booked entered after last summer.
00:35 MatthewMetzger I can see it if I go to MARC View and look at 942k
00:36 chris          right, i think you'll be ok upgrading to 3.0 then
00:37 MatthewMetzger thanks chris. I've had a terrible time getting search to work at all in my past attempts to 3.0, but I've discovered a database error that might contribute to that, so I'm now trying it with a backup taken before that error occurred.
00:38 chris          cool
00:38 MatthewMetzger I'll let you know how it goes.
00:38 chris          getting zebra to play nice is the hardest bit with 3
00:39 MatthewMetzger I've been attempting nozebra as we have less than 6000 items.
00:39 chris          ahh that shouldnt be too bad, yell out if you get stuck
00:40 MatthewMetzger thanks
00:46 qiqo           MatthewMetzger my call number is with 942k also
00:46 qiqo           i had difficulties with it
00:47 MatthewMetzger what difficulties did you have?
00:47 qiqo           like for barcodes
00:47 qiqo           and spine labels.. i had a hard time
00:48 MatthewMetzger We won't be printing either of those, but I'd like it to show up in searches. Did it show up after your upgrade to 3.0?
00:49 qiqo           yep
00:49 qiqo           but im using zebra.. so there might be a difference
00:49 MatthewMetzger okay. thanks. I'll give the upgrade another try.
00:50 qiqo           i know it's really painful..
00:50 qiqo           i can feel it too
00:51 MatthewMetzger I'm hoping that after 3.0 koha will feel a lot more streamlined. It seems that a lot of great improvements have been made. I'd just like to get there....
00:51 qiqo           yep
09:31 Fallor         hi #koha
09:33 frederic       Hi Fallor
09:34 Fallor         i need to know a few things
09:34 Fallor         anybody got time to help me out a bit?
09:35 frederic       What kind of 'few things'?
09:35 Fallor         well... things like how do i clear koha's reservoir?
09:35 Fallor         it has triple entrien now for some titles...
09:36 Fallor         entries
09:36 Fallor         it will probably require running some mysql command, but what and how?
09:37 Fallor         it's to do with importing records from another librarysystem (Voyager)
09:38 frederic       What version of Koha do you use?
09:38 Fallor         2.2.9
09:38 Fallor         it's a brand new installation
09:39 frederic       if you do bulk import, you'd rather use /misc/migration_tools/bulkmarcimport.pl script.
09:39 Fallor         the records were imported with breeding.pl
09:39 frederic       In v3, you can delete reservoir entries from web interface. Not sur for v2.
09:39 Fallor         i could try that, but the problem might be that bulkmarcimport also imports item records
09:40 Fallor         (afaik)
09:40 Fallor         the item records are different for this library
09:41 Fallor         from the item records in ISO-2709 file, that is
09:41 Fallor         I don't think there is an option to clear reservoir in the interface of koha 2
09:42 frederic       So you should proceed in two steps: (1) you prepare an ISO2709 file from your Voyager DB containing both biblio & item data, (2) you import file prepared at step (1) with bulkmarcimport.pl...
09:43 Fallor         the ISO file is produced by our national library
09:44 Fallor         it has item records, but i don't want them to be imported
09:44 Fallor         because they are national library's items, not ours
09:44 frederic       So you have to clear item info from your MARC records and then import them
09:45 Fallor         so i only want to import cataloging information
09:45 Fallor         item records will be created separately
09:46 Fallor         and then there is another problem...
09:46 Fallor         it's to do with character encoding
09:47 Fallor         the ISO file uses UTF-8 just as our system does
09:47 Fallor         but for some reason some characters are not correct
09:47 Fallor         would bulkmarcimport help with that also?
09:48 frederic       UTF8 support is a huge issue in Koha 2. A lot of work have been done concerning encoding support in Koha 3.
09:49 Fallor         utf-8 works fine as long as the cataloging is done manually
09:49 Fallor         but on importing records no such luck
09:49 Fallor         be it Z39.50 or ISO2709
09:50 Fallor         they're always wrong :(
09:50 frederic       Have you read that?
09:50 Fallor         have i read what?
09:51 frederic       http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=encodingscratchpad
09:51 Fallor         nope, i hadn't seen that
09:52 Fallor         how stable is Koha 3 at the moment?
09:53 frederic       With Z3950, some trancoding is required. My understanding is that it wasn't handled properly in v2. If you were in UT8, it was required to target UTF8 target (with exception for UNIMARC targets, maybe)...
09:53 Fallor         er...?
09:53 frederic       For my perspective, Koha 3 is more stable than Koha 2 :)
09:53 Fallor         i see, that's interesting...
09:53 frederic       But please, take advices from other...
09:54 Fallor         well it's unlikely that this system will be upgraded to koha 3 anytime soon
09:54 Fallor         but it would be interesting to test 3