Time  Nick            Message
11:24 Fallor          hello paul
12:16 gmcharlt        Fallor: to answer your question, for 3.0 you could do a SQL 'delete from import_batches' to delete everything; for 2.2.9 you could 'delete from marc_breeding'
12:16 gmcharlt        I'm not aware of a way to do it from the staff interface
13:20 paul            'morning gmcharlt & nengard
13:20 gmcharlt        hi paul
13:21 nengard         morning
13:27 owen            Hello #koha
13:27 paul            hello owen
13:35 nengard         Hi owen
13:39 paul            does anyone around know what is the "items.enumchron" column done for? (added by mason yesterday)
14:00 gmcharlt        paul: volume and chronology statements for an item, e.g., vol. 1 (1990)
14:01 paul            is there a link with the serials module ?
14:02 gmcharlt        not yet (the immediate reason for adding the field is to support a migration from a Voyager database), but would be logically to integrate that field with serials
14:03 paul            thx
14:07 owen            paul, is tools/inventory.pl something your libraries use?
14:07 paul            yep
14:07 owen            I have a couple of questions for you, then
14:08 owen            first, would it make sense to you to hide the form after you've submitted a search? I was thinking it made sense to give the whole page to the search results instead of redisplaying the form each time
14:09 kados_          g'morning all
14:09 owen            Hi kados_
14:09 kados_          paul: did you have some OAI patches you want in the beta?
14:09 gmcharlt        hi kados_
14:10 paul            (on phone, sorry)
14:10 kados           scheduled ones anyway :-)
14:10 kados           gmcharlt: got a sec?
14:11 gmcharlt        kados: sure -- I can call you if you want a phone call before 1 pm ;-)
14:11 kados           hehe
14:11 kados           so ... I was playing around with the installer yesterday, particilarly the web portion, and installing with other languages
14:12 kados           so starting in the misc/translator dir I did:
14:12 kados           mkdir ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE
14:12 kados           ./tmpl_process3.pl install -i ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/ -o ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE/ -s po/de-DE-i-staf
14:12 kados           f-t-prog-v-3000000.po -r
14:12 kados           oops, that didn't paste in quite right
14:12 kados           mkdir ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE
14:12 kados           ./tmpl_process3.pl install -i ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/ -o ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE/ -s po/de-DE-i-staff-t-prog-v-3000000.po -r
14:12 kados           so that will install the German staff templates
14:12 gmcharlt        with you so far
14:13 kados           when I installed from German, after the install completed, mainpage.pl failed witht he following:
14:13 kados           Can't call method "delete" on an undefined value at /home/jmf/koha/lib/C4/Auth.pm line 499.
14:13 kados           something wonked up about the session handling I think
14:15 gmcharlt        yeah -- does it then work OK if you go to the main page directly (i.e., not following the link you get from the installer?)
14:15 kados           no
14:19 kados           paul: you around?
14:19 paul            (still on phone)
14:19 kados           k
14:23 paul            back
14:24 paul            kados : about OAI patches. There is a problem in encoding, that Ecole des mines want to solve, so that will be for later.
14:25 kados           paul: later as in next week? or two months?
14:25 paul            next week I think
14:25 kados           OK
14:25 paul            (quickly I mean)
14:26 paul            about installer : maybe you're facing the problem I had and resulted in the patch including yaml that you've reverted.
14:26 paul            not sure, but it remind me something
14:28 kados           ahh, interesting
14:28 kados           it looked like a good patch, but it broke stuff and I didn't have time to figure out why :-)
14:43 gmcharlt        kados: re installing in de-DE: no MARC flavour is currently defined -- did you just skip that when you did the install?
14:43 kados           hmmm
14:43 kados           I guess so!
14:43 gmcharlt        anyway, I've now been able to reproduce the problem
14:45 paul            mmm... the problem that resulted in the reversed patch was in InstallerAuth.pm, not in Auth.pm so maybe your problem is not related to that.
14:45 paul            another idea : do you have mysql or /tmp as session storage ?
14:45 gmcharlt        mysql
14:47 paul            kados : when do you plan to release the beta (pascale nalon is working on french translation to tune & complete some strings)
14:50 kados           paul: well, we're getting closer, have to resolve this install prob, and I have some aditional testing to do
14:50 gmcharlt        kados: here's what I found so far
14:51 kados           paul: when can Pascale submit improvements to french translation?
14:51 gmcharlt        de-DE has no marcflavour and no default data to load
14:51 gmcharlt        in particular, it has no sysprefs
14:51 gmcharlt        since there's no SessionStorage syspref, it defaults to file
14:51 kados           gmcharlt: ahh, right ... we overlooked that I guess
14:51 gmcharlt        it tries to read from the session file created during install
14:51 gmcharlt        but can't read it (so paul's YAML patch is relevant)
14:51 kados           which I assume has been deleted
14:52 gmcharlt        I will see if deleting the session before handing over to mainpage at least avoids the carp
14:53 gmcharlt        but I think for translations that do not have MARC frameworks and sample data
14:53 gmcharlt        we either need to default to 'en'
14:53 paul            gmcharlt: ++
14:53 gmcharlt        or at the very least, load the en sysprefs
15:00 paul            the french translation team faces problems to translate "matchpoint"... we can't find a french term...
15:01 kados           gmcharlt: I agree
15:02 paul            could english-speaking ppl give me some synonyms for "matchpoints" in the Koha context ?
15:03 kados           well, matchpoints could also be 'match points'
15:03 gmcharlt        paul: so when a French library is loading a batch of records, and during the load wants to deduplicate the incoming records against the already loaded records on (say) ISBN or national bibliography number, what do the call the concept of using the ISBN or standard number index
15:03 gmcharlt        for that matching?
15:04 gmcharlt        paul: 'match index' ? 'mathcing index'? 'deduplication index'?
15:14 atz             perhaps "match criteria"?
15:14 atz             (no semantic overlap with tennis)
15:15 kados           hehe
15:16 gmcharlt        atz++
15:46 fbcit           hi koha
15:48 kados           hey fbcit
15:51 kados           paul: re: OAI ... do you have some specs for that feature yet?
15:52 paul            kados: what kind of specs do you expect ? the script just makes Koha OAI harvestable.
15:53 paul            (not sure it's correct english...)
15:53 kados           it's correct
15:53 atz             correct english is overrated  :)
15:53 kados           paul: a full implementation of OAI?
15:56 paul            the following methods are implemented (POD doc) :
15:56 paul            =item B<new>: initialization step,
15:56 paul            =item B<dispose>: clean up step,
15:56 paul            =item B<Archive_ListSets>: return list of defined sets,
15:56 paul            =item B<Archive_GetRecord>: return a record,
15:56 paul            =item B<Archive_ListRecords>: return a list of records,
15:56 paul            =item B<Archive_ListIdentifiers>: return a list of record identifiers,
15:57 kados           paul: can you add this to the wiki?
15:57 paul            which page ?
15:57 kados           sec
15:59 kados           paul: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:qanotes3.0
16:00 kados           paul: under the APIs section for now
16:00 kados           paul: add OAI link please
16:00 kados           and I'll make sure to add it to the release notes
16:08 paul            kados : done
16:09 kados           paul++
16:09 gmcharlt        paul, kados: I'm going to signoff on Paul's YAML patch, make another patch to correct an issue with it, then submit set of install patches
16:09 kados           gmcharlt: sounds good
16:10 kados           gmcharlt: might want to CC me directly at rm@koha.org for the install ones so I can push them up unmediated and continue RM testing
16:10 gmcharlt        ok
16:15 fbcit           heh
16:16 gmcharlt        fbcit++
16:17 kados           fbcit: wow, that's awesome
16:17 fbcit           question for owen, atz, and anyone else interested...
16:17 fbcit           should we restrict image types to jpeg only?
16:17 fbcit           or allow other formats?
16:17 paul            nope, we should also allow png imho
16:17 atz             png and probably gif even
16:17 owen            And we're just talking about patron images, right?
16:18 fbcit           right now, yes
16:19 atz             this would simplify the "small logo" kind of stuff in sysprefs too
16:19 fbcit           also the restriction on pixel dimensions may become important as images can get pretty big
16:19 fbcit           kados: what is the largest number of patrons currently served on a Koha install?
16:19 fbcit           or anyone else who knows
16:20 paul            SANOP is something like 20 000 patrons.
16:20 paul            (active)
16:20 atz             that physics institute had tens of thousands, at least
16:21 owen            NPL has 53500 total
16:21 atz             your backup gets to be a serious pain in the ass
16:21 owen            ...but we'll probably never use the feature
16:21 fbcit           atz: actually, you have to backup the data one way or the other, but I can see your point.
16:22 kados           fbcit: I suspect only the small libraries will store images
16:22 paul            yep, I suspect too
16:22 fbcit           I am hoping to add the ability to print patron cards from inside koha and would like to have photo on them
16:22 atz             i didn't backup pix when I ran k-12 servers (the most reliable users of patron photos)
16:22 paul            unless we let the user upload a picture itself from OPAC.
16:23 atz             mainly because I received all the images on disc media
16:23 fbcit           paul: I had thought of that too.
16:23 atz             so the original is the backup
16:24 fbcit           paul: the only problem I see there is image restrictions such as pixel dimensions.
16:24 fbcit           kados: it would still be wise IMO to benchmark against a large number of records *just-in-case*
16:26 fbcit           ok, I'll simply refactor the current patronimage functionality to store images in the db and other changes/improvements can be made from there
16:27 atz             does YUI have any image upload tools?
16:27 fbcit           I'll also allow for png, gif, and jpeg
16:27 fbcit           I'm not sure
16:28 pianohacker     Supposing I wanted to submit the necessary patches for my smart rules and issuing specificity ideas, how would I go about doing that?
16:28 kados           pianohacker: hiya
16:28 kados           pianohacker: are you working on the 3.0 codebase?
16:29 pianohacker     Yes
16:30 pianohacker     I'll probably backport any patches to my workplace's 2.2.9 install, but yes
16:30 kados           sweet, so submitting patches is a snap
16:30 kados           here's a guide:
16:30 kados           http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:git_usage
16:30 pianohacker     kados: Ahh, thanks
16:30 kados           and if you have questions after reading that shout out, we're all here to help :-)
16:31 gmcharlt        pianohacker: I'm glad that you're working on 3.0 -- there's a lot of interest in the smart rules desgin
16:31 pianohacker     Well, cool
16:31 kados           smart_rules_design++
16:31 kados           gmcharlt: pushed up the patches you sent
16:32 pianohacker     For some godforsaken reason, our library has roughly 30 itemtypes, so a replacement for the 256 cell matrix came about by necessity
16:33 qiqo            hi may i know who's incharge of the windows releases?
16:33 qiqo            i couldnt see 2.2.9 anymore
16:36 kados           qiqo: I believe fbcit is working on a windows installer that's native to koha 3
16:36 kados           pianohacker: *nod*
16:37 fbcit           qiqo: still aways to go on Koha 3 on win32
16:38 fbcit           qiqo: I'm not familiar with the 2.2.9 win32 release
16:38 fbcit           qiqo: but see http://www.koha.rwjr.com/
16:39 paul            kados : i've an updated french translation. Should I send it directly to rm@koha.org or patches@koha.org ?
16:39 kados           paul: send through patches
16:39 fbcit           atz: YUI does have an uploader, but it's marked experimental currently.
16:39 paul            done
16:40 qiqoqo          when i create an adobe file, all that i can see in that file are the barcodes
16:41 qiqoqo          no spinelabels and titles even i set the parameters correctly
16:41 fbcit           atz:http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/uploader/
16:42 fbcit           qiqoqo: is this on win32?
16:42 qiqoqo          yup
16:43 fbcit           I'm not sure there, sorry.
16:43 qiqoqo          no problem
16:43 fbcit           qiqoqo: there is a win32 list
16:43 fbcit           qiqoqo: see http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-win32
16:43 qiqoqo          but i suspect that it's the items and biblioitems tables which is causing the problem
16:43 qiqoqo          yeah im on with that list actually
16:45 qiqoqo          ive searched the mailing list.. no luck
16:45 atz             fbcit: interesting... flash player upload control
16:45 pianohacker     I can see why they did; input type
16:46 pianohacker     =file is somewhat crippled
16:46 atz             yeah, being able to set a bigger SEND buffer is pretty cool too
16:46 fbcit           atz: maybe I'll give it a closer look once I'm done with the other mods
16:47 qiqoqo          i just want to ask,, i saw that my itemnumber column in my items table does not have anything,. so you think that's the problem?
16:47 atz             isn't itemnumber the primary index?
16:48 atz             that would be a problem.
16:48 kados           yep
16:48 fbcit           bbiab
16:54 qiqoqo          hmm
16:59 qiqoqo          sorry it was itemcallnumber
16:59 qiqoqo          it's blank
17:00 qiqoqo          nul
17:01 pianohacker     qiqoqo: I can't see that being a huge problem
17:01 pianohacker     How about biblioitems.itemtype?
17:02 qiqoqo          biblioitems.itemtype is populated
17:13 qiqoqo          ohh gosh..
17:18 qiqoqo          hmm..
17:18 qiqoqo          it really seems that it does not connect to biblioitems
17:20 paul            to anyone having a git setup : is tools/hotlidays working for you ?
17:21 paul            it's no more working for me (when I click on a day, the "Library" field is empty)
17:22 paul            owen: " first, would it make sense to you to hide the form after you've submitted a search? I was thinking it made sense to give the whole page to the search results instead of redisplaying the form each time" ?
17:22 paul            :
17:22 paul            yes, it could be OK for me (if you have the breadcrumb)
17:23 paul            pls if you're working on inventory, also try to understand why the printing display only 1st page (and thus only a small part of the list)
17:25 paul            strange : it seems holidays.pl works fine with opera, but not with firefox
17:27 gmcharlt        paul: I think I touched tools/holidays.pl last -- I'll take a lok
17:27 gmcharlt        look
17:28 paul            thx
17:32 gmcharlt        paul: seems OK to me -- when I click on a day, I see the branch code in the 'library' field (although I suppose as an enhancment it ought to display the name, not hte code)
17:32 paul            are your superlibrarian ?
17:33 kados           shouldn't it also have a 'default holidays' for all libraries?
17:33 paul            kados : an other idea would be to be able to copy holidays from one branch to another
17:34 gmcharlt        paul: yes
17:35 paul            could you try without being (as i'm not)
17:35 paul            note also that it works with Opera, so it's a dirty problem i'm afraid
17:36 kados           paul: in the french translation, staff client, do you have 'Set' properly wrapped by two parentheses (Set) ?
17:36 kados           paul: I'm just noticing that the german translation is missing the )
17:36 paul            yes i do
17:36 paul            (Définir)
17:36 kados           strange
17:37 paul            gmcharlt: when i'm superlibrarian, it works fine as well
17:37 kados           I'm also seeing a few stray strings like the occassional \t
17:39 gmcharlt        paul: still works as a non-superlibrarian user
17:40 paul            :-(
17:40 gmcharlt        paul: are you using the French templates -- might be a small XHTML error that's cropping in during tmpl_process or something
17:40 paul            nope, I did the test in english
17:41 paul            (I always work in english when testing, as I already have discovered that translation ADD problems ;-) )
17:57 paul            time to leave for me. i'm in paris tomorrow, see you on monday (for a complete week at the office !!!!)
17:58 kados           cya paul
17:58 paul            (oups, no i've a meeting on thursday ;-) )
17:58 paul_away       kados & all liblimer : have a good week at code4lib.
17:58 atz             thx
17:58 paul_away       "veinards" ;-)
18:12 atz             there appears to be a ton of overdues related detritus in the codebase still
18:17 pianohacker     I'm going to try to submit a template for the default set along with smart-rules; is there any style guide for that?
18:25 gmcharlt        pianohacker: I can e-mail you the template I made when I updated your 2.2 template to 3.0 for my testing -- that should give you an idea
18:27 gmcharlt        pianohac1er: (since it looks like you may have dropped out for a moment) I can e-mail you the template I made when I updated your 2.2 template to 3.0 for my testing -- that should give you an idea
18:27 pianohac1er     Woops, wrong button
18:28 pianohac1er     gmcharlt: Ahh, thank you
18:29 gmcharlt        pianohac1er: email sent
18:40 qiqoqo          it really seems that it does not connect to biblioitems
18:43 pianohacker     Hmm. Only connection I can see is items.biblioitemnumber
18:43 pianohacker     Is _that_ filled?
19:11 qiqoqo          yup
19:11 qiqoqo          it is
19:13 qiqoqo          so which perl script does the job of forwarding data to the label-print-pdf
19:14 qiqoqo          almost going crazy
19:23 kados           hey tim
19:28 qiqoqo          oh gosh,, going crazy over this
19:28 tim             Hey kados
19:39 atz             warn (length($var) > 100 ? "\$var is too big to display" : $var);    # cheap workaround
20:29 kados           atz: got a sec to brainstorm?
20:29 atz             ok
20:29 kados           atz: I'm trying to overcome the problem where zebraqueue wails on C4::Context-dbh before the db is created
20:29 kados           my thinking was an internal sub in zebraqueue_daemin.pl
20:29 kados           that manages the dbh ...
20:30 kados           ie, when it's invalid, it sleeps 20 seconds and tries agin or something
20:30 atz             i haven't looked inside zebraqueue much at all
20:32 atz             probably should just do   my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh or sleep/warn /whatever
20:33 kados           that would work once
20:33 atz             my $sth = $dbh->prepare ("blahblah")   or  sleep/warn/whatever
20:33 kados           woudln't it also throw an error with my ?
20:34 kados           if that variable is used later?
20:34 atz             it should declare the variable somewhere, if it uses it
20:35 atz             it doesn't matter (to me) what scope it does the declaration in.  the Context call failing is the important thing to catch.
20:35 kados           zebraqueue is a deamon, so it's persistant
20:35 kados           we don't want it dieing
20:36 atz             i didn't say die anywhere
20:36 kados           well, if I go:
20:36 kados           my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh or sleep 3;
20:36 kados           $dbh->prepare(something)
20:36 kados           that will kill the script if  C4::Context->dbh doesn't evaluate as true
20:36 atz             you would need to kick out to redo the loop
20:37 kados           because $dbh woudln't exist
20:37 atz             right, see above
20:37 kados           what loop?
20:37 kados           I think that's just it, we need a loop
20:37 atz             whatever block
20:37 kados           every time there's a dbh call
20:37 kados           so I'm thinking maybe an internal function for managing all dbhes?
20:38 kados           does that make sense?
20:38 kados           but then I begin wondering if that should, in fact be handled by ->dbh :-)
20:38 atz             you can do      unless ($dbh = C4::Context->dbh )   { sleep 30;  warn "hey!~"; &some_log_function();}
20:39 atz             there are many references to dbh, but only 1 connection
20:39 atz             (per session)
20:39 atz             so there is nothing to manage any further, as far as that goes
20:40 atz             you might do something like C4::Daemon
20:40 atz             and add the loopified, conditionally sleepy dbh stuff there
20:41 atz             but I don't think it's much worth it, just for this
20:42 kados           the alternative is 34,000 lines in your error logs every hour :-)
20:42 atz             any problem w/ the unless version?
20:42 kados           so that version still needs a loop
20:43 kados           because what happens is after 30 seconds it logs the error and proceeds normally
20:43 kados           what I think we need, is to capture the dbh call and make it sleepy every time it's called in this script
20:43 kados           and re-try when it times out
20:44 kados           ie, after 30 seconds, we want it to try again
20:44 kados           and then wait another 30 seconds
20:44 atz             while (!$dbh) {  the_rest_of_it }
20:44 kados           and so-on
20:44 kados           make sense?
20:44 atz             this isn't that hard
20:44 kados           my $dbh;
20:44 kados           while (!$dbh) { $dbh = C4::Context->dbh }
20:44 kados           like that?
20:46 atz             while (!$dbh) { $dbh = C4::Context->dbh;  ($dbh) or warn/sleep/log;}
20:48 atz             or you can do   while (1){ ... ;  $dbh and last;   warn;sleep;log;}
20:49 kados           *nod*
20:49 atz             i'd recommend the escalating kind of delay like TCP does.
20:50 atz             having already declared:   my $minsleep = 30;  my $maxsleep = 5000;
20:51 atz             the sleep line becomes like:
20:51 atz             sleep $minsleep *= 2;
20:52 atz             sleep ($minsleep *= 2 > $maxsleep) ? $maxsleep : $minsleep;
20:53 kados           I like it
20:53 kados           thanks
20:53 atz             yeah, that kind of thing is reasonable machine (or protocol) behavior
20:54 atz             it's like, "well, you've been broken 6 times in  a row now, maybe I shouldn't still  be expecting you to be online in next second"
20:54 kados           *nod*
20:58 atz             someday, i might like to get deeper into zebra/zebraqueue code
20:59 atz             look at benchmarking it (inside vs. ouside a VM), optimize caching, etc.
01:02 thd             Is there a problem with git.koha.org or is it just me?
01:03 kados           thd: working for me
01:03 kados           thd: long time no see!
01:03 qiqoqo          wow so you guys are releasing beta?
01:03 qiqoqo          coool!
01:04 kados           qiqoqo: soon my friend, soon
01:05 kados           hopefully in time for Code4libCon
01:05 qiqoqo          hehe wow great job guys
01:05 thd             kados: I have remote: aborting due to possible repository corruption on the remote site
01:06 qiqo            i can see the release notes for beta
01:06 qiqo            i always get that error when i use the git repository,, sorta like with the indexing or stuff
01:06 kados           qiqo: yep, they're not completely done
01:07 qiqo            so excited.. our university launched it's own ils.. i dont like it.. it's over priced and they wont opensource it. hehe
01:07 thd             qiqo: If you get that error, how do you use git?
01:08 qiqo            i just folow the installation instruction on debian..
01:08 qiqo            sorry i just merely forgot how to do that, im on a windows server machine at the moment,
01:09 qiqo            copied and pasted the one which is in debianinstall which is option one..
01:10 qiqo            anyway i never get successful with it so i always use option two
01:11 qiqo            which is to download koha manually..
01:17 thd             kados: when did you last fetch from git?
01:17 kados           thd: this morning IIRC
01:18 kados           thd: I'll try right now
01:18 kados           thd: working fine for me thusfar
01:19 thd             Yet I have this fatal error
01:19 thd             for the past 3 hours
01:19 kados           :(
01:22 pianohacker     Hello there
01:23 pianohacker     How should I add smart-rules to the admin-home page?
01:24 gmcharlt        pianohacker:  add links to koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/modules/admin/admin-home.tmpl
01:24 gmcharlt        and koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/includes/admin-menu.inc
01:24 pianohacker     Okay, cool
01:24 gmcharlt        in same fashion as links to issuingrules.pl
01:25 pianohacker     How to deal with the overlap of functionality, though?
01:25 pianohacker     Call it Circulation and Fines Rules (NEW) ?
01:27 gmcharlt        Circulation and Fines Rules (alternative interface), perhaps
01:27 gmcharlt        title can be changed later once everybody is comfortable with it and ready to remove (or deemphasize) the existing issuingrules.pl
01:29 pianohacker     You guys use 4-space indentation, right?
01:30 pianohacker     bbl
01:30 pianohacker|foo Engfeh
01:34 gmcharlt        pianohacker|afk: 4-space indents in Perl code
01:34 gmcharlt        pianohacker|afk: in practice, less disciplined indented in the HTML templates ;)
01:34 kados           indenting html templates consistently is hard
01:36 gmcharlt        hmm, is http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=kohadevelopersmanual&s=coding%20standards all there is on the wiki -- could stand a little more meat, if so
01:39 kados           there's also a page on the kohadocs.org site
01:39 kados           http://www.kohadocs.org/codingguidelines.html
01:39 kados           that unfortunately isn't easy to edit
01:39 kados           until we move to plone
01:53 fbcit           g'night koha. I'm off to sleep.
01:55 thd             kados: what does git --version report for you?
01:56 kados            git --version
01:56 kados           git version 1.5.3.7
01:57 thd             I have the same so that cannot be the problem
01:57 kados           try a fresh clone
01:57 thd             :(
01:57 qiqo            is there a way to recheck the database of koha? it seems that my problem is about the database.. i really cannot print spinelabels, i only get barcodes and item type, no call number
01:59 thd             qiqo: did you create items for your bibiographic records with ca numbers?
02:00 thd             s/ca/call/
02:01 qiqo            yeah
02:01 qiqo            082, 900 series right?
02:01 qiqo            both of them are filled up
02:03 thd             qiqo: I do not mean the MARC 21 standard location for call numbers but the one specific for Koha items
02:04 qiqo            where is that?
02:04 qiqo            because i only see "null" on the itemcallnumber field on the items table
02:04 thd             ]qiqo: I should know immediately but let me verify
02:04 qiqo            that field is never populated
02:05 thd             qiqo: which version are you testing
02:05 thd             ?
02:05 qiqo            2.2.8 on windows
02:05 qiqo            win 2003 server sp2
02:06 qiqo            will it be fine if the cardinality of records from items table is not equal to the number of records in biblioitems?
02:09 thd             qiqo: Koha should manage the incrementation for you and if it has done that should not be a problem
02:10 qiqo            ahh ok
02:10 thd             qiqo: Koha items should be in 952 for rel_2_2
02:11 qiqo            let me check
02:11 thd             and also for 3.0
02:11 qiqo            it's 942 in mine
02:14 thd             qiqo: I suspect that you are confusing 952 and 942
02:15 thd             qiqo: 942 call numbers are only used for sorting
02:15 thd             a result set
02:16 thd             qiqo: of course you may have changed the defaults but unless you remember changing them you probably did not
02:17 thd             qiqo: have you followed the step for some test records of adding items (copies) to your biblio records?
02:17 qiqoqo          sorry bout that
02:17 qiqoqo          got disconnected
02:18 qiqoqo          darn isp
02:18 thd             qiqo: have you followed the step for some test records of adding items (copies) to your biblio records?
02:18 qiqoqo          nope.. i started from a blank db
02:18 qiqoqo          previously i was on linux
02:19 qiqoqo          and it's like i was printing spine labels manually
02:20 thd             qiqooqo: well you cannot expect good results with an empty db but I expect that you did not mean to say that your DB is empty :)
02:20 qiqoqo          ah.. only the framework
02:20 qiqoqo          hehe
02:20 qiqoqo          hmm.. i already have 300 records.. aww..
02:21 qiqoqo          is started with 2.2.7, there was no spine label printing then
02:21 thd             qiqoqo: and do those records have items (copies) attached for holdings?
02:22 qiqoqo          yup
02:22 qiqoqo          i use koha for my library
02:23 thd             qiqoqo: in the same field as the one holding the barcode, probably 952 on a Koha MARC 21 system, do you have call numbers?
02:23 qiqoqo          i started up with it.. so im in the middle of cataloguing things
02:25 qiqoqo          field on the database?
02:26 qiqoqo          as far as im concerned,  the field that only has the call number is biblioitems.classification
02:26 qiqoqo          nothing for items.itemcallnumber, it's empty
02:26 thd             qiqoqo: items.itemcallnumber
02:26 qiqoqo          and if i put something on items.itemcallnumber it prints to the pdf
02:27 thd             qiqoqo: hooray
02:28 qiqoqo          but the problem is, i cant paste data from biblioitems.classification to items.itemcallnumber
02:28 qiqoqo          they dont have the same cardinality
02:28 qiqoqo          and the titles wont also print
02:29 thd             qiqoqo: if you edit your items manually and add call numbers to each item then you should be fine
02:29 qiqoqo          aww..
02:29 qiqoqo          that's 300 records.. a
02:29 qiqoqo          hehe
02:29 atz             you can script yourself a mysql update
02:29 atz             might be easier
02:30 qiqoqo          haha,, i only have a limited knowledge on mysql
02:30 qiqoqo          but hmm.
02:30 thd             atz: qiqoqo is worried about a difference in cardinality
02:31 thd             qiqoqo: there is something that can help
02:31 thd             qiqoqo: what classification scheme are you using?
02:31 qiqoqo          also the title is not printing im suspecting that its a miscommunication between items and biblioitems tables
02:31 qiqoqo          DDC
02:32 thd             qiqoqo: is 082 populated for your records?
02:32 qiqoqo          082 and 942
02:34 qiqoqo          OMG i really dont want to startr over again, books are already on the shelves.
02:34 thd             qiqoqo: can you export your records successfully in MARC 21?
02:35 qiqoqo          hold on i'll try
02:35 qiqoqo          ok i exported it
02:36 thd             qiqoqo: are you more comfortable with Perl than SQL?
02:37 qiqoqo          neither of them hehe..
02:37 qiqoqo          i actually check the perlscripts.. label-print.pl
02:38 qiqoqo          the sql statements there seem to be fine
02:38 qiqoqo          i really think it's with my database structure which causes the problem
02:39 thd             qiqoqo: items.itemcallnumber is not filled automatically
02:39 qiqoqo          well i havent tested this on 3.0 because im getting a "frey 50" thing on field 100
02:40 thd             frey 50?
02:40 atz             that's a marc21 error
02:40 atz             i thought it was fixed though...
02:41 thd             atz: qiqoqo is using 2.2.8
02:41 qiqoqo          oh i already reported it
02:41 thd             when does that error occur?
02:42 qiqoqo          yeah when i exported 2.2.8, then it goes successfully
02:42 qiqoqo          when i search the opac.. it has 'frey 50' after the author
02:42 qiqoqo          and if a title does not have an author, system replaces it with a date in YYYYMMDD format + frey 50
02:43 qiqoqo          tried it on zebra and non zebra
02:43 edjarima        good night
02:43 qiqoqo          gmcharlt already saw this.. and he said you're fixing it
02:43 qiqoqo          we were on remote desktop connection last time
02:43 qiqoqo          :)
02:43 edjarima        good night
02:43 thd             good night edjarima
02:44 qiqoqo          nyty edjarima
02:46 qiqoqo          so this problem was already fixed?
02:46 qiqoqo          i can try it again..
02:48 thd             qiqoqo: I assume that the fix requires updating to a CVS version of Koha
02:49 thd             qiqoqp: but maybe you could merely copy one file which fixed the issue
02:52 thd             qiqoqo: do you care what your barcodes are or anything else already in your items?
02:52 qiqoqo          barcodes are printing fine
02:53 qiqoqo          my only concern is the title and the call number..
02:53 qiqoqo          i really cant do the manual thing anymore,, causes me stress.
02:54 thd             qiqoqo: So you do not care about retaining some particular barcodes as long as they are unique?
02:54 qiqoqo          hmm.. what do you mean..
02:55 qiqoqo          i have to retain barcodes actually
02:55 qiqoqo          because some of the stuff, merely 200 items already have their barcodes
02:55 qiqoqo          and are on the shelves already
02:55 thd             qiqoqo: OK
02:55 qiqoqo          sorry if i dont understand it right..
02:56 thd             you understood
02:56 qiqoqo          oh cool.. hehe
02:56 qiqoqo          my only frustration is that.. it's an ILS, automation, i should not go on with the manual thing
02:59 thd             qiqoqo: there is some automation for adding call numbers in 2.2.8 but it is limited to adding something like 082 $a but misses $b so you would miss the cutter number
02:59 qiqoqo          ohhh..
02:59 qiqoqo          so can this be seen on 3.0?
03:00 thd             qiqoqo: this feature in 2.2.8 also only works if you configure it and operates as part of the manual process for adding items
03:01 thd             qiqoqo: your records could most easily be fixed from an exported set of records
03:01 qiqoqo          uhuh
03:01 qiqoqo          but will mess up my barcode right?
03:01 thd             qiqoqo: no
03:01 qiqoqo          ahh ok
03:02 pianohacker|afk Hrmfrgldammit
03:02 pianohacker|afk I can't get postfix to send correctly
03:02 thd             the current version of my script would move them but you do not want that either
03:02 pianohacker|afk Is there some other way to get patches to the right place?
03:02 qiqoqo          hmmm..
03:02 qiqoqo          so im really traped..
03:03 thd             qiqoqo: no I could fix the script
03:03 qiqoqo          really?
03:03 qiqoqo          but ill be shifting to 3.0 soon..
03:03 qiqoqo          so.. i guess i'll have to wait until the frey 50 thing is fixed
03:03 thd             qiqoqo: are you issuing items on loan already?
03:04 qiqoqo          nope not yet
03:04 qiqoqo          i'll be going to thailand and india to enter data from there
03:04 qiqoqo          after that i'll open this library
03:04 qiqoqo          my server is located here in manila
03:05 thd             pianohacker: you could email an attachment to the correct address
03:05 pianohacker     thd: That won't cause any problems?
03:06 pianohacker     Cause if it would make their lives easier, I'll try to get this godforsaken thing working
03:06 thd             pianohacker: you need the special magic word in the subject line to pass the spam filter
03:06 qiqoqo          lol
03:06 thd             pianohacker: do try to fix postfix of course
03:07 pianohacker     thd: Weird thing is, it doesn't seem to be postfix; I can't telnet to any of gmail's incoming SMTP servers. Ah well
03:08 thd             pioanohacker: add [patch] to the subject line of a manual message with the patch attached and the appropriate comment about its function in the subject and or body
03:09 qiqoqo          hey i'll try 3.0 and see if things will get fixed
03:09 pianohacker     Well, hope that worked
03:11 thd             qiqoqo: call numbers are poorly automated in Koha record creation because of a lack of understanding by most of the programmers working on Koha about how they are used.
03:11 qiqoqo          the last time gmcharlt screenshared with me, he saw some irregularities with my marc records and i think he fixed it
03:12 qiqoqo          yeah thd, that's what my professor thinks about koha..
03:12 qiqoqo          but anyway, he is also waiting for version 3.0 since they are going to deploy it in our National Library
03:13 thd             qiqoqo: If you know someone who wants to sponsor much improved automation of adding call numbers it is not difficult to achieve but just time consuming to generalise properly.
03:13 qiqoqo          he already sent some staff to learn perl
03:13 thd             qiqoqo: which nation?
03:13 qiqoqo          Philippines
03:14 qiqoqo          hold on ill be transfering to my macbook
03:14 qiqoqo          brb
03:16 pianohacker     Night all
03:17 kados           thd:  you may want to look more closely at call number handling in 3.0
03:17 kados           thd: it's improved considerabley
03:17 thd             kados: you did what you said there was no time to do? :)
03:17 kados           thd: no, but gmcharlt did :-
03:18 kados           )
03:18 kados           though I will point out that apparantly call numbers are less and less important to libraries
03:19 kados           for instance, worldcat local doesn't even support searching by call numbers
03:19 qiqo            hmm then how do you search for the physical location of items?
03:20 qiqo            well we're still old school here.. "location, co location"
03:20 thd             kados: only ignorant librarians like the WorldCat who manage the WorldCat local project believe that
03:20 thd             s/like the /like the ones/
03:21 qiqo            @thd i dunno about worldcat, never heard it in library school
03:21 thd             qiqo: WorldCat is the name of the OCLC union catalogue
03:22 qiqo            ahh ok
03:22 qiqo            oclc.. i get it
03:22 qiqo            it may have been the name
03:22 qiqo            we still rely on lc though..
03:22 qiqo            well it's a part of the curiculum
03:23 thd             qiqo: WorldCat local is OCLC's new OPAC which does not have other ILS features
03:23 qiqo            well gonna research on that, i might teach at the university
03:24 thd             qiqo: kados just told me that 3.0 development has some call number management features which I have not seen
03:24 qiqo            ohh that's good
03:24 qiqo            im installing debian at the moment.. etch right?
03:25 qiqo            i already changed servers so i have no choice but to install it again
03:25 thd             qiqo: If you can wait until 3.0 is usable you would be much better off than migrating from 2.2.X
03:25 qiqo            hmmm... when would that be?
03:26 kados           3.0 is usable now
03:26 qiqo            it's fine for me to test it anyways..
03:26 qiqo            yeah i think 3.0 is usable
03:26 kados           several libraries are in production with 3.0
03:26 thd             kados: are there no terrifying bugs left?
03:26 qiqo            i mean, the most important thing for us here is opac
03:26 kados           thd: nope, only one annoying one with zebra
03:27 kados           zebraqueue specifically
03:27 thd             kados: I will have to file some ;)
03:27 kados           but nothing that doesn't have a workaround to my knowledge
03:27 kados           thd: :-)
03:28 qiqo            aw..
03:28 thd             qiqo: is the Philippine national library also the largest library in the Philippines?
03:28 qiqo            nope,, the second one
03:29 qiqo            the largest library is my university: University of the philippines
03:29 qiqo            1.5Million records
03:29 qiqo            national lib i think only has 260,000
03:29 qiqo            more or less
03:29 thd             qiqo: is the University library also a copyright depository library for the Philippines?
03:30 qiqo            when you publish a book in the philippines, you have to send a copy to national library and UP
03:31 thd             qiqo: do you have the Z39.50 server parameters for those libraries?
03:31 qiqo            hmmm i think there's none
03:31 qiqo            they dont invest on those things
03:32 qiqo            no z3950 servers here in the philippines to the best of my knowledge
03:32 atz             wow, that's remarkable
03:32 thd             qiqo: what classification and subject heading thesauri do they use?
03:32 qiqo            libraries here rely on manual copycat from lc or ohio
03:33 qiqo            UP is using LC classification and LC subject heading
03:33 kados           qiqo: you will have a Z-server if you instal 3.0 :-)
03:33 qiqo            wow!
03:33 qiqo            hahaha
03:33 atz             ohio?   (i live in ohio)
03:33 kados           as will the national library
03:33 qiqo            ohiolink
03:33 qiqo            cool!
03:33 kados           qiqo: a SRU server too
03:33 atz             i used to work w/ INFOhio (the k12 version of OhioLink)
03:34 qiqo            cool
03:34 qiqo            yeah... but they have to customize things in the national lib
03:34 thd             qiqo: what is done for cataloguing locally published material not in LC or OCLC?
03:35 qiqo            LC SH and LC C is very limited for the US.. so they designed a customized LC SH and LC C
03:35 qiqo            and sometimes we produce our own local theusaurus
03:36 qiqo            as for the national library, it's DDC which they use
03:36 qiqo            i dunno why? hehe
03:36 qiqo            well gotta invite you guys to go to manila sometime..
03:36 qiqo            haha
03:36 thd             qiqo: what are the titles of the published standard for Philippine thesauri?
03:37 thd             s/standard/standards/
03:38 qiqo            well we have thesauri on local languages.. like we have 80 languages and dialects here in the philippines
03:38 qiqo            we also have philippine medical thesaurus
03:38 qiqo            and i tell you guys, if our asian neighbours here in the philippines see that the national library is using koha, they might follow us
03:39 qiqo            we have thesaurus for women studies
03:40 thd             qiqo: can you send me a list of the titles of those thesauri?
03:40 qiqo            hold on ill check
03:41 qiqo            thd what is your email?
03:41 qiqo            or can i just post here?
03:41 thd             qiqo: koha AT agogme.com
03:41 thd             qiqo: but you could post it here
03:42 thd             qiqo: after all everyone should want to know
03:43 thd             qiqo: you should have a little help migrating your exported 2.2.X records to Koha 3.0
03:44 qiqo            ahmm yeah i think so
03:44 qiqo            like indexing zebra and stuff
03:45 thd             qiqo: Koha specific default fields and subfields have been rearranged so the records should be changed accordingly.
03:46 qiqo            ohh what does that ean
03:46 qiqo            mean
03:46 thd             qiqo: If you have no patrons, loans, etc. to migrate then the task should be fairly easy.
03:47 qiqo            ahh nope, dont have that yet
03:47 qiqo            i have a question, since im only the librarian here in our organization..
03:48 thd             qiqo: EAN? European Article Number or standard barcode symbology for products
03:49 qiqo            and the task for the national library is to deploy koha as replacement for TLC
03:49 qiqo            since there is division of work there.. my professor asks if they could like assign priviledges?
03:50 qiqo            thd,, im using code39
03:50 qiqo            like for the ones who only catalogues... or on the circulation desk
03:50 kados           qiqo: has the national library considered getting support from a koha vendor?
03:51 kados           qiqo: or your university even?
03:51 thd             qiqo: yes, Koha has a very flexible system for restricting different librarians to different types of privileges
03:51 qiqo            oh ok
03:52 qiqo            @kados we are thinking about that, but at the moment, i guess they need training first
03:52 thd             qiqo: privileges are documented very well in one or more of the documents on setting up Koha http:www.kohadocs.org
03:52 qiqo            oh ok
03:53 qiqo            ill talk to my professor one of this days,, we will have a beer session or something
03:53 qiqo            well i need to tell him to request from one of you guys to go here in manila
03:54 thd             qiqo: migrating any large collection should have assistance
03:54 qiqo            because they are actually fed up paying $30,000 every year for a lousy ILS
03:54 qiqo            yeah,, ill be telling him about that
03:54 atz             amen!
03:55 thd             qiqo: even with only 300 books so far in the database that you have been using, fixing something simple is more work than you want to undertake manually
03:56 qiqo            hehe
03:57 qiqo            look at their opac: http://basilio.nlp.gov.ph/
03:59 thd             kados: I think I found the answer
03:59 qiqo            brb i'll take a shower
03:59 thd             kados: "Trying again somewhat later went through flawlessly [not for me]. Might have been git running out of memory."
04:00 thd             kados: I no longer have enough free RAM to update my git repository even in console mode
04:12 qiqo            back..
04:19 qiqo            mygosh you a daemon killer... you're archangel lolz
04:30 thd             apparently I did not kill enough daemons
04:40 thd             git is working so far now hooray
04:41 thd             kados: do you have any spare RAM cards for me?
04:42 qiqo            how much ram do you have thd?
04:43 thd             qiqo: 256 MB with many daemons running
04:43 thd             git finally failed although at a much later point
04:44 qiqo            ohh ok
04:44 qiqo            ddr or ddr2?
04:45 thd             qiqo: pre DDR SDRAM
04:47 thd             qiqo: my money always goes to pay for non-computer necessities each month with nothing remaining to fix these little problems
04:48 qiqo            awww..
04:48 qiqo            wish i could help you ther
04:48 qiqo            i have spare here, but shipping might have been a lot more expensive than buying a new one
04:48 qiqo            :)
04:50 thd             qiqo: RAM is very cheap now but my landlord is very expensive :)
04:52 thd             s/cheap now/cheap now compared to even 2 years ago/
04:53 qiqo            yeah
04:54 qiqo            like ddr2 is a lot cheaper
04:54 qiqo            if could fit 4GB in my macbook id love to do that
04:54 qiqo            but im only limited with 2
04:55 qiqo            hmm brb lunck
04:55 qiqo            hmm brb lunch