Time Nick Message 12:41 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el n=russel@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz 13:57 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: dbs n=dan@pdpc/supporter/active/denials 14:42 owen Does the OPAC's subject cloud feature need special configuration? 14:42 kados owen: no, but you do need to run a script to get it working 14:42 kados I'll give you the syntax ... just a sec 14:42 kados yea 14:43 kados well frankly I looked at that feature over the weekend, along with the 'hierarchy' one and they aren't really ready for 3.0 IMO 14:43 kados unfortunately 14:43 owen Hi atz 14:44 atz greets owen 14:44 kados owen: perl/misc/build_browser_and_cloud.pl -f 050a -t 650 -c 14:45 kados that will get you a subject cloud composed of 650 fields 14:45 kados owen: but the browser feature doesn't work currently 14:45 kados we need to write an english DDC and/or LOC mapping between classification and 'definition' 14:45 kados I think this feature should be disabled by default for 3.0 14:46 kados and perhaps emerge as an official feature in 3.2 or thereafter 14:46 kados hdl or paul around? 14:46 paul yep 14:46 hdl yes 14:47 kados I think we need to talk soon about the searching api 14:47 paul hi kados. I agree about having this feature of by default. 14:47 paul I wanted to suggest it... as search is badly broken 14:47 paul (i'm investigating why, and it appears that it's related to the API) 14:47 kados because the pattern thusfar seems to be that we are overwriting each other's code and breaking features that are important 14:48 paul atm, the search on author don't work for us. 14:48 kados yep 14:48 hdl And in fact, search on anything but kw 14:48 kados in dev_week the search works nearly perfectly 14:48 hdl is broken. 14:49 paul I think it's related to index / limits variables 14:49 kados there were quite a few changes introduced, some of them I'm not sure I understand 14:49 kados especially related to the limits 14:49 kados that section has been re-written 14:50 kados one thing that I find strange 14:50 kados in addition 14:50 kados is the use of wrdl 14:50 kados ie, where I would just use kw, it seems you tend to use kw,wrdl 14:51 kados I don't understand the justification for that 14:51 kados also, some of the other ccl qualifiers have changed names 14:51 kados rt has turned into rtrn 14:51 kados same with lt 14:52 kados and the human_search_desc seems to have been completely refactored 14:52 paul kw, drdl I can explain. I don't know for the others 14:52 kados also, I made an effort to document carefully every block in Search.pm 14:53 kados but a lot of the new stuff isn't documented in the code at all 14:53 paul when you search "the two towers" as kw. Don't you expect to get all biblios with "two" and "towers" in the biblio ? 14:53 paul (whereever those words are) 14:53 kados yep 14:53 kados I understand what wrdl is 14:54 paul how can you achieve that without wrdl ? 14:54 kados but I don't understand why you need to define it as user-facing search syntax 14:54 kados just map it to word list behind the scenes 14:54 paul user facing search ??? 14:54 kados (what the user sees) 14:55 paul the user don't see it (unless he looks at the html, of course) 14:55 paul whay you would prefer would be to have that at zebra level ? 14:55 kados keyword is defined as a wordlist already 14:56 paul maybe I made wrong then. hdl, any idea ? 14:56 kados so it's unnecessary to add wrdl to the definition 14:56 paul (or maybe my zebra config file was/is wrong, and I solved the problem an improper way) 14:56 kados same applies for au, ti, etc. 14:59 hdl kados : in fact, changes are mostly due to the fact that some searches and links were used an unexpected way. 15:00 hdl For instance human search desc was used for page searching. 15:01 hdl I thought it was your way to think things. 15:01 hdl So I had to make human searchdesc be something taht could be processed by zebra. 15:02 kados hmmm 15:02 hdl (which to my mind was quite unclear since zebra ccl is not what I would call human readable) 15:02 kados human search shoudln't have been used for page searching 15:02 kados wait ... 15:02 kados no, not human search 15:02 kados federated search 15:02 kados that's the one that is machine readable 15:03 kados human search is human readable 15:04 hdl About wrdl, I thought that use simple blocks was much more efficient on the long run than hiding all the wrdl in ccl.properties. 15:04 hdl if you take au = au,wrdl 15:05 hdl you cannot do a search au,phr 15:05 kados wrdl is zebra's default 15:05 hdl No. 15:05 kados so you don't need to define au = au,wrdl 15:05 hdl it is not. 15:05 hdl At first when we typed paul Saint 15:05 hdl as an author 15:06 hdl we got no or wrong results because it searched paul and then saint 15:06 hdl This is why I had to add wrdl. 15:07 kados http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search 15:07 paul (hdl is not speaking of me here, he speak of the St paul of the holy bible ;-) ) 15:07 kados hehe 15:07 kados hdl: take a look at the way it works in dev_week 15:07 kados we have au and au,phr 15:08 kados in ccl.properties: 15:08 kados Author 5=1 1=1003 s=pw 15:08 kados au Author 15:08 kados and then: 15:08 kados st-phrase 4=1 15:08 kados phr st-phrase 15:09 hdl s stands for ? 15:10 kados structure 15:10 kados identical to 4 15:10 hdl In our ccl.properties until today, we donot have s=pw 15:10 kados yep, someone removed it I'm afraid 15:11 hdl It is not added for all the subjects. 15:11 hdl which should be searchable via word or phrase. 15:12 kados for subjects we should have two options: 15:12 hdl (I found it on your /etc/ccl.properties) 15:12 kados 1. with authorities, search authorities db, and show headings in results 15:12 kados 2. without authorities, search biblios fields and show results in results 15:13 hdl This would be the same as Auth link vs "Link" link 15:14 hdl (Where Auth jumps to the authorities and display authnumber=authid) 15:14 hdl (Link does a search on the subfield content in biblios) 15:16 kados where is that link? 15:16 hdl link is the old feature in koha2.2 15:16 hdl which allow you to search biblio database for a value in a field 15:17 hdl It use to take in a '200f','200g' list 15:17 hdl But now, it takes an index. 15:18 kados right 15:18 hdl where is word list stated by default ? 15:19 kados word list is default for zebra 15:19 kados it's the 'any' definition in bib1 I think 15:20 kados nope, I'm wrong 15:25 owen Is opac/maintenance.pl used? 15:32 gmcharlt owen: yes, it's where OPAC user is directed if DB is in need of a databaseupdate 15:33 owen Ah, I thought it might be something controlled by a system pref 15:33 kados owen: it is controlled by a syspref in dev_week 15:33 kados owen: which is useful if you are, for instance, re-indexing your bib data 15:33 kados it's on my list of things to port 16:07 owen In my test installation, there are many places where the call number does not appear (circulation.pl, for instance) 16:07 owen ..in the list of checkouts 16:21 hdl kados : is devweek up to date for search code ? 16:22 hdl Do you think I should investiguate And try harder and get it work on rel_3_0 ? 16:40 hdl kados ? 16:47 hdl kados : buildQuery seems to always return undef as first parameter. Why is it that way ? 17:07 paul owen around ? 17:07 owen yes 17:07 paul I've a question about detail.tmpl. 17:07 paul is it important for you to have the title in <h1> ? 17:07 owen Why do you ask? 17:07 paul because for french libraries, it's something ... mmm... fool ? 17:08 paul the ? being that I'm not sure of the term 17:08 owen I don't understand 17:08 paul but they find that : strange, annoying, non isbd standard, and many other adverb that I can't copy here ;-) 17:08 paul they want something like : 17:08 paul title [itemtype] / author 17:08 paul in a standard size, not that large 17:09 paul and in the yui-block, not on top. 17:09 paul so, is it important for us libraries to have things as you did them ? 17:09 owen Can you show me an example of another French interface that uses that kind of formatting? 17:10 paul sudoc.abes.fr 17:10 paul sudoc catalogue 17:10 paul type "harry potter" in the 1st <input 17:10 paul choose the 1st. 17:10 paul you should see : 17:11 paul Titre : Harry Potter et la coupe de feu [Texte imprimé] / J. K. Rowling ; trad. de l'anglais par Jean-François Ménard 17:11 owen I can't reach http://sudoc.abes.fr/ 17:11 paul title : Harry potter and the fire cup [printed] / JK Rowling, translated from english by JF Ménard 17:11 paul www.sudoc.abes.fr maybe ? 17:12 paul yep 17:14 owen I'm not sure how to solve our difference. All the major examples I look at show it as a heading: http://worldcat.org/oclc/271160 17:14 owen http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0670038199 17:14 owen http://www.librarything.com/work/5969 17:15 paul http://www.librarything.com/?highload=1 :( 17:18 owen anyway, you get the idea. To me the format in the sudoc example is less friendly 17:19 hdl owen : but it is less useful for a research index. 17:19 paul owen : maybe moving the title inside the yui-b & lowering the size ot the title could be more friendly. 17:19 owen I'm not sure what you mean, hdl 17:20 paul + I thing the large space between the 2 columns is something that make the libraries unhappy 17:21 hdl if you are a student or a searcher, having things presented in a way that is close to normalized ISBD is more interesting. 17:21 owen Then shouldn't ISBD be set as the default biblio view for those institutions? 17:22 hdl (If we had zotero interface, this argument would not be so interesting. But at the moment, since we have many institutions ...) 17:51 paul owen: in the bibloitems table, there is a "place" table. 17:51 paul is it for the "place of publication" or is there another meaning for this "place"? 17:52 owen place of publication. 17:52 paul (this "place" is not in detail.tmpl, and could be added) 17:52 owen Ah, you're right. 18:13 owen paul: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhm2vzk_3fpwjqc 18:14 owen kados: that also shows the view tabs I worked on the other day (still not committed) 18:19 hdl owen : when there is many notes, things are quite unbalanced. 18:20 owen the alternative is to stick with the single-column layout of 2.x 19:29 owen Should the ISBD view be considered a replacement for the "normal" view? Will ISBD fans want to see the normal view too? 19:33 owen ISBD doesn't show holdings, of course... 20:25 owen ryan: kados and I have been trying to draw a distinction between "views" and "actions" in the UI, with actions in a toolbar and views in a sidebar menu 20:26 owen That's our justification for moving the views out of the toolbar 20:33 fbcit g'afternoon koha 20:39 hdl owen: about your question for ISBD. The fact is that information from one view to another is not the same. 20:41 hdl For instance ISBD can provide ppl with higly personnalized URLs, so that you can have links on MANY information and display only selected and required information 20:41 owen hdl: Sure, but if a library wants the ISBD view, wouldn't they want it to contain all the information the "normal" view includes? why would they want to switch between the two? 20:41 hdl Normal viw has availability statuses. 20:41 hdl Normal view has availability statuses, which MARC and ISBD has not. 20:42 hdl MARC is quite convenient when cataloguing is concerned. 20:42 owen But that could be easily fixed, if it were preferable to have ISBD as the primary view instead of normal. 20:46 hdl then librarians would be able to have a very flexible and customizable display system. 20:47 hdl Because Normal view will always be a problem. Some will want it amazon way, others abes way, others star trek way. 20:48 martinmorris hello, can someone point me to instructions on how to checkout the version 3.0 beta 20:56 kados martinmorris: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:git_usage 20:57 kados hdl: I've committed the xslt example I think 20:57 kados hdl: if you look at the actual stylesheet it's really simple 20:57 kados hdl: could take you about 20 minutes to do a unimarc one I bet 20:58 martinmorris ah marvellous, thanks kados 20:58 fbcit kados: you were looking me earlier? 20:58 kados fbcit: ahh, yea, just wanted to let you know I had chris working on the installer a bit over the weekend 20:59 fbcit great! what's new? I sent up a couple of patches to change the zebradb dir structure to make more sense... 20:59 kados there are a few patches ... but I think we need to take a few of the issues to koha-devel 20:59 fbcit k 20:59 kados ahh, cool, well chris can see how they fit in with what he did too 20:59 kados where to put things seems to be the trickiest part :-) 20:59 kados there don't seem to be any conventions unfortunately 21:00 kados for a full blown web app anyway 21:00 fbcit I simply broke out into markflavour to be consistent... 21:00 kados cool 21:00 fbcit with existing structures in koha... 21:00 kados chris did much the same with marcflavour and language IIRC 21:00 fbcit I was working on adding lang selection to makefile.... 21:01 kados chris did that bit already 21:01 fbcit it appears that rfc has changed 21:01 kados rfc? 21:01 kados you mean rfc4646? 21:02 fbcit that's the one... gmcharlt mentioned 3066, but I "discovered" 4646 Friday... 21:02 kados yea, 3066 is obsoleted 21:02 kados by 4646 21:02 fbcit so what's left? 21:02 kados I've actually already written code to handle that 21:02 kados parsing the language code strings that is 21:02 hdl kados : will you answer my questions on buildQuery ? 21:02 kados hdl: which questions? 21:02 kados fbcit: yea, it's a nightmare of a regex, lemme tell ya :-) 21:03 hdl <hdl> kados : is devweek up to date for search code ? 21:03 hdl [17:30:52] <hdl> Do you think I should investiguate And try harder and get it work on rel_3_0 ? 21:03 hdl [17:48:26] atz [~chatzilla@cpe-71-74-91-27.insight.res.rr.com] a quitté IRC : Quit: viva la koha 21:03 hdl [17:49:09] <hdl> kados ? 21:03 hdl [17:56:09] <hdl> kados : buildQuery seems to always return undef as first parameter. Why is it that way ? 21:03 kados hdl: I'm working on Search.pm today, I hope to be finished by this evening 21:04 kados hdl: unfortunately, though dev_week works quite well, so much has been changed in 3.0 I'm going to have to re-factor what we have 21:04 hdl oh. ok. 21:05 kados I should have something for you to test by morning 21:05 hdl ok. send it to me. 21:05 fbcit kados: so what direction should I proceed? ...talk with chris? 21:07 kados fbcit: yea, I'd say talk with chris 21:09 kados chris: you around? 21:09 fbcit chris? 21:09 fbcit heh 21:09 fbcit what do they say? Great minds get stuck in the same rut? 21:09 kados hehe 21:10 fbcit isn't chris in NZland? 21:10 kados yup 21:13 fbcit brb 21:26 ryan cgi-bin/koha/reserve/renewscript.pl 21:26 ryan anyone ? 21:28 ryan <!--TMPL_IF NAME="issuecount"--> 21:28 ryan <form action="/cgi-bin/koha/reserve/renewscript.pl" method="post"> 21:32 ryan hmm.... temporary blindness. nm 21:32 masonj_ :) 21:44 laura good day 21:44 laura can any one advise if this koha open source offers SIP or NCIP? 21:51 atz SIP 21:51 atz NCIP is in development, afaict 21:51 laura very exciting! 21:52 laura we are a vendor who uses SIP for our library customers and our library customers have asked us to support this 21:52 laura thank you for your answer 21:52 atz ryan or kados would be able to speak more authoritatively 21:54 laura Ok I will stay on for them to confirm 21:54 laura thank you 21:54 ryan laura: feel free to contact me for details: ryan.higgins@liblime.com 21:54 ryan yes, the upcoming release support SIP2 21:56 laura thanks I will email you. we have several customers that have asked if they can use your service with our service I will email you the details 21:56 ryan great, i'll look for your email 22:02 fbcit chris: ping 22:03 masonj_ fbcit , chris is out, back in about 1.5 - 2 hours 22:08 martinmorris can someone remind me where i get zoom 1.16 from? 22:12 ryan http://search.cpan.org/~mirk/Net-Z3950-ZOOM-1.16/ 22:13 ryan martinmorris: do you have problems with 1.20 ? 22:18 masonj . 23:56 fbcit-1 hi chris 02:18 fbcit-1 hi chris 02:19 fbcit-1 -;-) 02:22 chris you were after me before? 02:24 fbcit-1 chris: kados said you worked on the installer this weekend. 02:24 fbcit-1 I was wondering where things stand and what direction I need to go... 02:27 chris right 02:28 chris currently what i have done is get it so it sets up the right zebra files so if you choose unimarc it copies the right file to be record.abs 02:29 fbcit-1 I assume that is based on the value of MARCFLAVOUR? 02:29 chris this is the Makefile.PL 02:29 fbcit-1 right 02:30 chris so yeah it can be an ENV or it can prompt when you run perl Makefile.PL 02:30 fbcit-1 I was referring to an env var. 02:30 chris it'll prompt if there isnt an env var set 02:31 chris same with language (for zebra only en or fr at this stage) 02:31 fbcit-1 how about the language selection? 02:31 fbcit-1 so the installer is done? 02:31 chris and it will copy the right sort-string.chr 02:31 chris not quite ive been moving the opac scripts out of hte same dir as the staff side on install 02:33 chris and im not sure the templates should end up under lib/perl5/koha/templates 02:33 chris thats about it 02:34 fbcit-1 sounds good. 02:40 fbcit-1 tnx chris. 08:07 hdl chris ? 08:07 chris hi hdl 08:07 hdl hi how are you ? 08:08 chris good thanks, kahurangi turned 1 year old today 08:08 chris so he has gone to bed with his new teddy bear :) 08:08 hdl happy birthday kahurangi 08:08 masonj heya hdl 08:09 hdl I was wondering whether joshua could fix search problems. 08:09 hdl hi masonj 08:09 chris ahh i havent seen a patch yet, i think he is still working on them 08:13 chris i have 34 patches that i have checked and sent through 08:14 chris that are waiting for joshua to check 08:14 chris but lots of them are from paul 08:15 chris i expect ill have some from joshua waiting when i wake up 08:15 chris he is concentrating on fixing search 08:16 hdl In fact, I would have liked to test what joshua did in order to improve for us or adapt our defaults configuration files. 08:16 chris right 08:17 chris if i see him, ill ask him to cc you on any patches he sends 08:18 hdl hopefully, i will catch him before you. 08:18 chris yep, 3.20am for him so he will be awake before me :) 08:24 hdl :D