Time Nick Message 07:04 masonj cya joe 07:00 chris sleep well 07:00 atz ttyl 07:00 atz well, sleeptime for me 06:58 chris heh 06:58 atz lol, he has LWP::UserAgent identify itself as "Mozilla/4.76 [en] (Win98; U)" 06:54 atz yeah, this doesn't seem to be related to opac code, necessarily 06:53 chris i stand corrected 06:53 chris oh really? i didnt think it did 06:53 atz actually, the C4::Amazon module does HTTP::Request or LWP connections to Amazon 06:51 chris not sure kados wrote the module, but i think so 06:50 atz so how do we know how to reference the correct image? formulaic mapping based on ISBN? 06:49 chris yeah hidden divs 06:49 atz but I suppose you can try some js to hide it after the fact 06:49 chris but it gives you more chance of staying with the t&c 06:49 chris yep 06:48 atz right... that looks lame 06:48 chris so you get empty review sections 06:48 chris right the amazon module as it stands just fetches 06:48 atz to know whether to include a "review" or "sample" section 06:47 atz other OPACs I've seen will query out first to verify added content exists 06:47 chris but you have to update them every 24 hours 06:47 chris if you decide to cache them locally, you can do that too 06:46 chris if you are doing it realtime 06:46 atz right 06:46 atz i realize the images are just statically mapped 06:46 chris ie the content is fetched from amazon to the browser 06:46 chris its the clients 06:46 chris its not the servers that do it 06:45 atz especially, say, in a hosted environment where many servers live on one box 06:44 atz and if it actually checks first w/ the service (it might, but I'm guessing it doesn't), then the servers would be connecting more often than 1/s under load 06:43 chris theres even a blog post on it 06:43 chris joshua has corresponded with amazon quite a bit 06:43 chris or even 20, depending on how many results per page its returning 06:43 chris true 06:42 atz I'm not sure how the API works... but one hits page is going to have 10 images on it 06:41 chris thats per ip isnt it? 06:40 atz I'm sure we do more than 1 hit per second. 06:40 atz I can't tell whether it was ever compliant with that page though. 06:30 atz that's good. maybe we're just hearing FUD. 03:42 kados since the last time I checked a few months ago 03:42 kados doesn't seem to have changed at all 03:41 kados http://www.amazon.com/AWS-License-home-page-Money/b/ref=sc_fe_c_2_3434651_2/105-6373537-4758038?ie=UTF8&node=3440661&no=3434651&me=A36L942TSJ2AJA 03:38 kados but I'll check right now 03:38 kados I haven't heard anything 03:06 atz Frenchies say Amazon is restricting the image service to "partners". 03:06 atz anybody hear anything stateside about the Amazon images ? 01:34 gmcharlt got the email, thanks 01:34 gmcharlt no, I'm not 01:33 thd gmcharlt: are you Foxnorth? 01:33 thd gmcharlt: I just sent the email 01:03 gmcharlt where does the 3.0 updatedatabase do that check? 01:02 ryan there's some fk constraint that has to be manually removed. 01:01 ryan yes, true... in fact , it does :) 01:01 gmcharlt thd: exactly why I want to write something to validate a DB against kohastructure.sql 01:00 thd ryan: I presume that it does but that does not mean that 3.0.2 will not miss something 00:59 ryan thd: updatedatabase for 3.0 starts from scratch 00:59 gmcharlt thd: thanks 00:59 thd gmcharlt: only a small bit of that patch is relevant so I will extract it and email it to you. 00:58 gmcharlt thd: I can wait, or can you e-mail me the patch? 00:55 thd I thought that I could give you a link but kados has not committed my latest patch 00:50 thd I can give you a URL to some code 00:50 gmcharlt thd: right 00:50 thd ... without noticing any consequence 00:49 thd gmcharlt: the code itself still does not use those columns so it was easy to miss them 00:48 thd gmcharlt: I discovered about three weeks ago that updatedatabase.pl missed some columns for my installation which had been added between 2.2.5 and 2.2.6 00:47 gmcharlt thd: by not including all of the schema changes, I assume? 00:46 thd gmcharlt: I also have some anecdotal evidence from my own experience that updatedatabase.pl may not have always worked. 00:45 gmcharlt if email is convenient, mine is galen.charlton@liblime.com 00:44 gmcharlt great 00:44 thd gmcharlt: I have some code for part of your quest 20:50 gmcharlt kados said that if anything like this existed already, you might have done it 20:50 gmcharlt among other things, to verify that any given upgradedatabase is working 20:50 gmcharlt I was thinking of writing a tool to compare a current Koha DB against kohastructure.sql or another DB 20:50 gmcharlt yes -- first, let me introduce myself : my name is Galen Charlton, and I was recent hired by LibLime to work on Koha 20:49 hdl you wanted to ask me a question ? 20:49 gmcharlt had a question -- hold on one moment 20:49 gmcharlt yep 20:49 hdl gmcharlt: are you there ? 20:25 owen See y'all in 16 hours :) 20:22 gmcharlt Been living here for a while, ever since doing the Chicago -> Anchorage -> Tallahassee -> Chicago round trip 20:22 kados hehe 20:21 owen I went to school in Chicago, '89-'92 20:21 kados owen: galen will be in athens week of nov 5th, you can meet him in person 20:20 gmcharlt Chicago 20:20 owen Likewise. Where are you located, gmcharlt ? 20:19 gmcharlt Nice to meet you-, owen 20:19 kados and not to mention the official koha template interface designer :-) 20:19 kados gmcharlt: meet Owen, he's responsible for the new koha 3.0 templates, and the beautiful search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us 20:18 gmcharlt you can blame the CS department at my university for that :) 20:18 owen I was trying to remember your unpronounceable nick, gmcharlt ;) 20:18 kados and it seems to have spilled over into the main channel :-) 20:17 kados in a pmsg 20:17 kados gmcharlt: I was just telling Owen how impressed I was :-) 20:17 gmcharlt gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, yes 20:17 owen Ooops, wrong tab. 20:16 owen Yeah, I noticed some bug reports coming from Galen Charlton (gmcharlt, I assume) 18:17 gmcharlt hdl: you around? 18:16 kados thd: good point 18:16 thd s/ther/there/ 18:16 thd ... merely because removing hyphens from copy and paste queries for other systems which cannot cope is a nuisance. 18:14 thd kados: ther should perhaps be a user option to remove ISBN/ISSN/ISMN etc. hyphens even from display 18:13 kados thd: our default is to remove all hyphens from the data before the data is saved 18:13 kados thd: yes, I understand that now 18:13 kados thd: I'm here 18:12 thd kados: hyphens in ISBNs usually break queries when reused with hyphens on other systems. Hyphens are nothing more than an aid to human readability and help in retyping but are very problematic when used in copy and paste queries. 17:40 gmcharlt and we keep indexing as a background proces 17:40 kados definitely 17:40 kados hehe 17:40 kados gmcharlt: definively 17:40 kados but worth the normalization it'll give us 17:39 gmcharlt and even if we don't need it for ISBNs, we'll undoubted need it for other things 17:39 kados there will be a bit of a performance hit 17:39 kados that's actually a great idea 17:39 kados before indexing it in zebra 17:39 kados we could add a hook to normalize bib data 17:39 kados rule #1 :-) 17:39 kados ok, so we always remove hyphens 17:38 kados right 17:38 kados ok, good to know 17:38 gmcharlt the problem is that some "inexperienced" catalogers may enter the 020$a with the hyphens 17:38 gmcharlt so if the data is entered (or made to be entered that way) the ISBN will index as a single token 17:38 gmcharlt also one thing regarding hyphens -- per MARC 21, the hyphens are not supposed to be stored in the 020$a 17:37 gmcharlt are there hooks to do some normalization of the bib data before it is presented to zebra? 17:36 kados since we're indexing 020$a directly in zebra 17:36 kados that presents a challenge 17:36 gmcharlt but the 020$a should be left alone, and in the full bib display, taken from the 020$a directly if possible 17:35 gmcharlt for search purposes, they won't care 17:35 kados :-) 17:35 kados will catalogers be upset if we remove their parentheticals? 17:35 gmcharlt that sounds OK (keeping in mind that the last character of an ISBN can be an 'X') 17:34 kados gmcharlt: and then perhaps re-construct the dashes for display? 17:34 kados gmcharlt: is it good practice to normalize the ISBN down to a digit with no dashes for internal representation? 17:34 kados gmcharlt: what's your experience with how that's generally handled? 17:33 kados because i think hdl is assuming they don't have dashes in the db 17:33 hdl ) 17:33 hdl (assuming they are not STORED in database with dashes. 17:33 kados so i think we need to be explicit about how we're storing ISBNs internally 17:33 gmcharlt but also, the parenthetical information is mostly not needed for that sort of check 17:32 hdl kados : my patch display ISBN13 with correct dashes. It is all it does. 17:32 gmcharlt the parentheses currently cause a crash in the search code during hte dedupe check 17:32 gmcharlt it makes no particular assumptions -- it just strips out parenthetical stuff in the 020$a that catalogers add 17:31 kados and in index vs sql vs marc ? 17:31 kados gmcharlt: your intention with that patch was to normalize the isbn query ... does it assume a specific format that isbns are being saved in? 17:31 gmcharlt my patch probably isn't related to ISBN13 specifically, but should be compatibile with them 17:30 kados (I don't think I've seen them yet, chris gets up in a few hours) 17:30 hdl It is only a rewrite for DisplayISBN 17:30 kados hdl: is that related to your patches? 17:30 kados http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=commit;h=afe642bc5233bb316537558351bc26e49bff7a9c 17:30 gmcharlt yep 17:30 kados gmcharlt: you around? 17:30 kados gmcharlt did some work on ISBN 13 normalization I think 17:29 kados ahh, ok 17:29 hdl The only one that will work is the third. 17:29 hdl I sent 3 patches. 17:29 kados hdl: I'd like to ask you about your ISBN 13 note ... I don't understand it 17:29 hdl yes 17:29 hdl passing by. 17:28 kados hdl: you around? 14:23 twiggle ^.^ 14:23 twiggle (yea, that's a problem) 14:23 paul (and if the guy who think it's true is the amazon president ...) 14:22 twiggle i kno, i'm just being contrary ;) 14:22 twiggle :) 14:22 paul twiggle: i never said it's true. I just said some ppl may think it's true ;-) 14:22 twiggle i've been known to be a "try before you buy" library user 14:21 twiggle i'm not sure that's true really (libraries lowering amazon business) especially if the pic links back to their interface 14:21 atz like syndetics 14:21 paul (even if I feel it will be hard, because amazon business don't grow through libraries. someones may even think it is lowered by libraries...) 14:21 atz if you are going to pay for content though, you might choose other sources 14:20 paul liz_ ++ 14:20 liz_ well maybe if they hear from enough libraries they would consider a "library partner" designation 14:18 atz we'll have to check that out... I don't imagine it is very easy to get ahold of anybody there via phone :[ 14:18 paul nope, just some mails in french from SAN-OP and another guy that uses amazon images in it's opac (internally developped) 14:17 atz do you have a link or a communication from them about it? 14:17 paul (I would be pleased if someone checked & confirm this information) 14:17 liz_ aw bummer 14:17 atz that is bad news! 14:15 paul It has been reported to me by jerome pouchol, so feel free to comment/complete this information. 14:14 paul So it seems that this feature can't be used by our libraries. 14:14 paul kados : about amazon images. Do you know that the terms of use changed recently and are now limited to business partners ? 12:46 hdl I just sent a new patch which works now 12:46 hdl kados I sent a first commit for ISBN-13 management. But it was buggy. 12:39 hdl Congrats to all 12:38 paul kados: just to let you know what it means to have a company in France. I just recieved a paper from my gov taxes service. There is a list of "dates to respect" (to declare or pay taxes). The list contains... 29 dates !!! we are not concerned by all of them, but the 1st game is to find which ones are for us (as it's not specified). 12:37 kados paul: yes, it's on my list for today 12:29 paul could you pls take care of them? 12:29 paul kados : there are 12 blo/cri bugs, at least 5 of them waiting for an answer from you. 12:25 kados :) 12:25 kados and Koha too, for being a Finalist 12:24 kados congrats chris! 12:24 kados w00t 12:18 paul http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/?p=672 12:18 paul wow, chris is now a "famous kiwi"... 12:13 kados (even though it's 'true' for perl) :-) 12:13 kados and I couldn't tell because in sysprefs it displays as 'no' :-) 12:13 kados paul: I think that was the cause of many problems for me :-) 12:12 kados paul++ for seeing 'insecure == 'NO''