Time Nick Message 13:26 Brooke howdy 13:26 dewey what's up, Brooke 13:26 Brooke not much 13:26 Brooke how's it going? 14:00 Brooke howdy 14:03 slef hi all 14:03 slef /names 14:03 [K] *** #koha@FreeNode names: [K] rangi ru55el 14:03 kados hey slef 14:04 kados slef: we didn't announce the git move primarily because we're still leanring how to use it 14:04 kados slef: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:git_usage 14:04 slef is CVS still live? 14:04 kados slef: http://git.koha.org 14:04 kados CVS still exists, but we're not using it 14:04 kados we meaning paul and liblime 14:05 kados looks like sanop have just committed some stuff there 14:05 kados which one of us will have to port to git 14:05 slef you're not using the serene tree which pulls from CVS? 14:05 paul kados : seems that what sanop commited today is just an indenting stuff 14:05 paul (hello kados & slef however) 14:05 slef paul: you mean indent changes only? 14:06 kados paul: ahh, ok, maybe we can just do perltidy? 14:06 paul slef : yes. 14:06 paul kados : maybe (even if I think hard to read perltidyed code) 14:06 paul i'll become more confident in the next weeks I think 14:06 slef (not to koha) 14:06 paul LART ? 14:07 slef Luser Attitude Readjustment Tool 14:07 slef Also known as a 'clue-by-four' 14:07 slef looks surprisingly like a plank 14:07 slef I don't think they'll do it again ;-) 14:09 paul kados : mail sent to your mailbox, about patches management. 14:11 kados paul: checking 14:12 paul hdl coming back from Dakar (senegal) today... (an IFLA conference : http://www.dakar.aliaco.com/) 14:12 kados cool 14:13 kados sweet 14:13 slef can anyone tell me whether this URL prompts them what to save as: 14:14 kados slef: I committed one fix to git that was causing that 14:14 kados it was because the content-type was wrong 14:15 kados http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=commit;h=836b9857ed9d6ff51a8d9da088b44dac9154fefb 14:16 kados this was the problem line: 14:16 kados + -type => 'text/html; charset=utf-8', 14:16 kados - -type => 'utf-8', 14:16 kados - -cookie => $cookie 14:16 kados + -type => 'text/html; charset=utf-8', 14:16 kados sorr 14:16 kados sorry 14:16 kados my internet's acting up 14:17 slef owowow Lang just rude into the barrier horizontal 14:19 slef kados: that's a problem, but I don't think it causes this 14:19 slef can anyone tell me whether this URL prompts them what to save as: 14:19 slef http://11ns.co.uk/cgi-bin/koha/z3950/search.pl?oldbiblionumber=&isbn=0521606322 14:20 kados not in firefox 14:20 slef (by the way, z3950/search.pl seems not to check librarian authentication) 14:20 slef phone 14:20 paul not in ff for me either. 14:20 kados wait 14:20 kados if I click 'search internet' it does 14:24 paul same behaviour on konqueror. 14:24 paul the IES when you click may be an Auth problem... 14:28 slef off-phone 14:28 slef ah, yes, it does for me when I click search 14:32 slef the z39.50 search is erroring and the script is crashing 14:35 slef download is 0-bytes 14:35 slef download seems to be prompted by apache 14:35 slef so everyone's sort-of-right 14:36 kados paul: all your stuff should be pushed to git.koha.org 14:36 kados paul: can you verify? 14:37 paul (but my suggestion about mails is still valid...) 14:37 kados yes I agree 14:37 kados we also need a better test procedure, between chris and I 14:37 slef USA's Leipheimer sets new best time (individual time trial) 14:37 kados because IMO every piece of code should be tested before pushed to git.koha.org 14:37 kados not just eyeballed 14:38 paul that will be a huge huge stuff... 14:38 slef leader Jens Voigt just set a best time at the intermediate check, though... 14:38 slef kados++ 14:40 slef hrm, even if I feed my z search garbage, it doesn't break like that 14:40 kados paul: what do you think the role of updatedatabase is? 14:41 paul update the datatabase between 2 versions 14:41 paul minor or major ones. 14:41 paul except "super major" (koha 3.x => koha 4.x) 14:42 kados afaik, the updatedatabase in 3.0 curently is worthless 14:42 paul why ? 14:42 kados unless you know something I don't 14:42 kados well, #1, we don't have stable database definition 14:42 kados for 3.0 14:42 kados and #2, it has old database defs from 2.2, etc. 14:43 paul it does 90% of the upgrade from 2.2 to 3.0. The 10% missing being the specific stuff to create marcxml and move some fields. 14:44 kados one library, that uses a small subset of features 14:44 paul Idid EXACTLY what is written on : 22_to_30 wiki page 14:44 kados and only unimarc ;-) 14:44 paul yep, but the unimarc specific stuff is really small. 14:45 kados I bet that: 14:45 kados 1. 2.2 -> updatedatabase -> 3.0 14:45 kados 2. koha < kohastructure.sql (via installer) 14:45 kados 1 != 2 14:47 Brooke grrr 14:47 kados I bet that 2.2 -> updatedatabase -> 3.0 results in a different database structure than kohastructure.sql 14:47 Brooke If I had $ I'd take a French course 14:47 Brooke and a CSI course 14:47 kados heh 14:47 paul (CSI course ???) 14:47 Brooke Informatique 14:48 paul in some indexes & maybe a few foreign keys you're probably right. 14:48 paul but not more than this (or i made something wrong, which is always possible ;-) ) 14:49 kados Brooke: would you be willing to test migrating from 2.2. to 3.0? 14:50 kados Brooke: on a non-production system of course 14:50 Brooke what's this non production system you speak of? 14:50 paul I have 3 or 4 migrations from 22 to 30 to come in september... 14:50 kados hehe 14:50 Brooke I don't see why not 14:50 Brooke I can nag me husband to do it 14:51 Brooke are the files out there someplace in the aether? 14:52 kados Brooke: sort of 14:52 kados Brooke: http://git.koha.org 14:53 kados we don't have a release packaged yet 14:53 kados slef: how's the installer coming? 14:53 slef kados: working on it this afternoon after text/x-perl 14:53 kados slef++ 14:53 paul slef +++++ 14:53 kados paul: how is re-writing borrower management coming? :-) 14:54 kados paul: and have you seen bug reports from owen? 14:54 paul ??? you're waiting for me to do it ??? 14:54 paul yes about the bug reports from owen. 14:54 kados paul: and have you tested the authorities editor, we can't get it working 14:54 kados ahh, I thought you were re-writing borrowers 14:54 paul mmm... works fine on my setup... 14:54 kados I may have missunderstood 14:55 paul http://i15.bureau.paulpoulain.com/cgi-bin/koha/authorities/authorities.pl 14:55 paul (abel/abel) 14:55 paul no, I thought YOU were rewritting borrowers. 14:55 kados hehe 14:56 kados paul: would you like to see what happens running the installer, importing authorities, and trying authorities.pl? 14:56 paul you showed me something few months ago, saying the code size dropped from 1500 to 250 lines iirc 14:56 kados I will give you access to my vhost 14:57 paul hdl should have some time to devote to you next week 14:57 kados 1. remove all features that are broken 14:57 kados 2. delay the release further 14:57 paul 3. release a beta, with the list of what is broken, and delay the stable release a little 14:58 kados I'd consider #3, but not with major features broken 14:58 paul 1. seems impossible to me... 14:59 Brooke I like 4 14:59 Brooke opps 14:59 Brooke 3 14:59 kados if minor parts of a feature are not working, that's fine 14:59 kados but when major features are just throwing 500 errors by default 14:59 kados that's just going to spread FUD 15:00 slef we need a general 500-catcher 15:00 kados slef: people just need to test their code more :-) 15:00 paul wow... 500 errors ? I haven't seen that since months. Maybe it's because i'm working with a 22 => 3.0 database... 15:00 slef kados: what works one place won't work for another - witness this z problem 15:01 kados paul: and that's why we have a problem :-) 15:01 kados paul: that's why I don't trust updatedatabase :-) 15:01 kados I think that kohastructure.sql != updatedatabase 15:01 paul why do you trust more kohastructure.sql than 22+updatedatabase ? 15:01 kados there should be one authoritative place for the sql definition for 3.0 15:02 kados not two 15:02 kados paul: I only trust it more because it's readable 15:02 kados paul: updatedatabase isn't readable without spending 3 hours reading it :-) 15:02 kados I can't just go look up the structure of table X for instnace 15:05 slef you can, but it's in N parts 15:06 kados yea 15:06 kados the point is, we're all working off a different database structure 15:08 paul kados : would it be usefull for you to have ipt sql structure ? 15:08 kados yep 15:08 kados and sanop too 15:08 kados and whatever other koha systems you have installed too 15:11 kados paul: features should work after a stock installation IMO 15:12 paul stock ? 15:12 kados when I run the web installer on a brand new install 15:12 kados all major modules should compile and run the basic functions of the module 15:12 kados that's my definition of a 'beta' 15:12 paul agree. 15:13 Brooke hooray agreement 15:13 Brooke :) 15:13 kados stable is when all major modules compile, and all functions work 15:13 kados when I can run the installer and have all features working, I'll release 3.0 beta 15:13 Brooke sooo emmmm 15:13 Brooke as a whiny user 15:13 Brooke when should we stop getting listened to in favour of the current features getting ironed out before new features are added? 15:14 kados paul: because it was broken 15:14 Brooke I mean, you guys seem too nice to us. 15:14 paul Brooke: that's difficult, because libraries are always OK to fund new features, never to sponsor fixing ones :\ 15:14 kados paul: it caused the web installer to crash 15:14 kados paul: you can try it from the CVS version if you like 15:15 Brooke *nod* 15:15 Brooke I realise that you have to eat 15:15 paul how did you build the actual kohastructure.sql ? 15:15 Brooke but should there be a point where folks scream no more new features til we fix the old? 15:16 kados paul: I just reverted and I've been adding minor changes manually since then 15:16 kados IMO, from here on out, the kohastructure.sql should be edited manually 15:17 kados and not the restul of a sql dump 15:17 kados thx 15:18 kados slef: you voiced an opinion on this on the koha-devel list IIRC 15:18 Brooke hmmmm 15:18 Brooke I have a perhaps stupid ide 15:18 Brooke a 15:18 paul i've kdiff3-ed the 2 sql. there are a lot of differences : 15:18 Brooke if Libraries sign on for a new feature 15:18 Brooke can part of the fee automatically go to fixing an old? 15:18 paul - 80% of them are varchar <=> char. not a problem, but strange. Maybe a consequence of a mySQL setup ? 15:19 paul - some are table that can be removes (5-6 on my side, 2-3 on your side) 15:19 paul - some are foreign keys missing on my side 15:19 paul - 3 missing columns on my side (the one recently added by hdl) 15:20 paul only the foreign keys are important I think 15:22 kados paul: how do we know what tables can be removed? 15:22 paul because they are useless :-D 15:22 paul like "websites" 15:22 paul and marc_biblio 15:22 dewey somebody said marc_biblio was where you can find the relationship between marc_subfield_table.bibid and biblioitems.biblionumber in the 2.2 series of Koha 15:22 paul wait, wait... 15:23 paul all my foreign key constraints are at the end of the dump. 15:23 paul I don't know why... 15:23 paul so there may be only a few diffs... 15:23 paul kados : I suggest : 15:23 paul -create database ipt 15:23 paul - mysql ipt <ipt3(2).sql 15:23 paul - mtysqldump ipt >ipt3(3).sql 15:24 paul -mysqldump yourdb >yourdb.sql 15:24 paul - kdiff3 ipt3(3).sql yourdb.sql 15:24 kados *nod* 15:24 paul so you'll have the same dump look... 15:24 paul (you'll see some mysql text in french at the en as well ;-) ) 15:26 kados slef: what were the mysqldump options you preferred? 15:26 slef Yes, I think the sql should be hand-maintained along with a changelog written in sql or perl as far as possible 15:26 slef erm 15:28 slef -cdQ at least, maybe --compatible=ansi if you're using mysql-5 15:30 slef does/how does git.koha.org relate to the serene git? 15:30 kados slef: serene git? 15:31 slef git://serene.ttllp.co.uk/opt/koha.git/ 15:31 kados slef: I don't think it relates at all 15:31 slef Announced in http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/koha-devel/2007-06/msg00008.html 15:31 kados slef: you'd ahve to ask chris though 15:31 kados I think we did a cvs convert ourselves 15:32 slef well that makes my life less simple... 15:32 kados best wait for chris next week 15:32 kados he can tell you how he did it 15:32 kados I wasn't around that day 15:33 slef can you please announce developments to koha-devel? 15:33 slef even if they're not ready/final 15:34 kados slef: I plan to announce git to koha-devel this weekend 15:34 slef else it burns others 15:35 slef but you said we need chris next week to say how it relates to users of the current git? 15:37 kados who uses the current git? 15:37 kados I didn't realize that was a production git 15:37 slef don't know... it's public and I've not been following the logs 15:38 kados paul: importing iptdb now 15:39 kados paul: will mysqldump and diff shortly 15:40 slef hrm, that was probably an error... doesn't look like it's logged 15:44 kados paul: would it be worth having a meeting to go through kohastructure in detail and make choices? 15:45 kados even things like meduimtext vs text should be decided for official 3.0 15:45 kados and what default values should be 15:46 kados and which constraints to use 15:46 kados varchar vs char 15:47 kados there are column differences for some tables too 15:47 kados paul: ? 15:48 Brooke I'm off like a prom dress 15:48 Brooke I've to go to "work" 15:48 kados hehe 15:48 kados Brooke: cya 15:49 paul varchar vs char = I think it's a mysql version choice. iirc, for char <=3, it doen's matter, mysql does always char. otherwise, it's just the way mySQL stores the value internally. 15:49 paul mediumtext vs text = should always be longtext imho 15:49 paul as text is SMALLtext iirc... 15:49 paul I had some problems storing long marcxml (with +100 items iirc) 15:49 kados paul: shouldn't we have a meeting and step through each table? 15:50 kados I see about twice as many constraints in ipt 15:51 kados slef: ? 15:51 paul otherwise, agree about a meeting, and constraint definitions. 15:51 paul twice as many constraints in ipt ??? 15:51 kados quite a few more are defined in ipt db 15:56 kados paul: kados.org/stuff/kohastructure-ipt.sql 15:56 kados paul: for instance, look at the constraints on accountlines 15:57 kados paul: compare to kados.org/stuff/kohastructure.sql 15:57 paul constraints missing should not cause Koha bugs externally. We may have problems with constraints, not without. (but that's fine : we can detect bugs or errors thanks to constraints) 15:57 paul sorry guys, i've been disconnected... 15:57 paul I said : 15:57 paul constraints missing should not cause Koha bugs externally. We may have problems with constraints, not without. (but that's fine : we can detect bugs or errors thanks to constraints) 15:57 paul jmf : your kohastructure is marked "mySQL 4.1.x". Aren't you using mySQL 5 ? 15:58 paul (that may be an explanation too) 15:58 kados the kohastructure is not 'mine' 15:58 paul and havent recieved any answer 15:58 kados I didn't create it 15:58 kados answer? 15:58 dewey answer is usually yes 15:59 paul nothing after my sentence (1mn disconnected, I may have missed something) 15:59 kados can you look at the kohastructure-ipt.sql 15:59 paul where ? 15:59 paul on my desktop ? 15:59 kados maybe irc is acting up :-) 15:59 kados kados.org/stuff/ 15:59 kados kohastructure-ipt.sql 15:59 kados oops 15:59 kados kados.org/stuff/kohastructure-ipt.sql 16:00 slef kados? 16:00 dewey kados is probably champion alligator-wrestler in 7 counties 16:00 kados look at the 5 constraints on accountlines for instance 16:00 kados dewey: botsnack 16:00 dewey :) 16:00 kados paul: are all 5 of them meaningful? 16:00 kados it seems to me only 2 are 16:01 kados slef: do you think we should have a meeting to go through the kohastructure? 16:01 slef sounds a good idea, but paul is away 10 days? 16:02 kados yea, maybe when he gets back? 16:02 slef so two weeks today? 16:02 kados that works for me 16:02 kados paul: is that a good date for you too? 16:02 paul kados : right, fk2, fk3, fk4 and fk5 are the same. silly 16:02 paul but probably not causing harm 16:03 paul aug, 31 then ? 16:03 paul OK for me. 16:03 kados cool 16:03 kados I'll announce it on koha-devel 16:04 kados paul: have a good trip 16:04 paul what time ? 16:04 dewey somebody said time was 648 16:04 paul 18GMT ? 16:04 paul (6PM GMT) 16:04 paul ok for me, when you want 16:04 kados 18:00 GMT works for me 16:05 kados slef: ? 16:05 kados earlier for slef? 16:05 paul okfor me 16:05 slef before 16GMT if possible, but I'll do 1800 if there's no better time 16:05 paul except 5GMT,because it's dinner time. 16:05 paul 4PM GMT is OK 16:05 kados for me too 16:05 slef paul: you eat dinner before breakfast? ;-) 16:06 paul :-D 16:07 kados slef: I'd like to talk abotu the installer when you have a chance 16:07 kados slef: is today good for that? 16:08 slef yes, as soon as I've finished slapping this disk and then kicked the other storage 16:08 paul bye bye kados, see you in 2 weeks then 16:08 slef bye paul... safe journey 16:36 slef ok, I think that's all working now 16:36 slef I know I've an email about the installer awaiting reply, by the way 16:37 slef but I'll talk anyway 16:37 kados yea, I wasn't sure how to respond to that email actually 16:37 kados lemme pull it up 16:38 kados what's the subject again? 16:38 kados Development Schedule? that one? 16:39 slef searching... 16:42 slef Message-ID: <18380450.2021183984919108.JavaMail.root@mail.liblime.com> 16:43 slef sorry for the delay 16:44 kados my mail client doesn't work wtih message ids 16:44 kados subject? 16:44 slef the one you said 16:44 slef Development Schedule 16:44 kados k 16:44 slef oh, I see another tab 16:45 kados I did respond btw ;-) 16:45 slef seems old 16:45 kados Jul 9th 16:45 slef "more coming soon"? 16:45 kados yea 16:45 kados this is it mate :-) 16:45 slef is this the more? 16:45 slef ok 16:45 slef cool 16:46 kados so what do you think about the comments first off 16:46 slef I've stopped it running the tests and I disagree that it's the installer's job to be the INSTALL instructions 16:46 kados ahh, ok 16:46 kados so lets identify the elements of an install and roles of those elements 16:46 slef but anyway, if we make this CPAN-friendly, the installer should be able to trigger the installation of the prereqs itself 16:46 kados to make sure we have expectations set properly 16:47 kados triggering would be nice 16:47 kados there are some things that can't be installed from CPAN obviously 16:47 kados like zebra 16:48 slef indeed. should be a 1% job to add those to the packaging 16:48 kados do we test for those things currently? 16:48 slef not directly, but could 16:48 kados there is a list of them in the install.pl file 16:48 kados but I'm not sure if hdl's method of testing is portable 16:49 slef what would I look for? A zebra binary? 16:49 kados and whether there is a portable way of doing that anyway ... 16:49 kados that's a good question 16:49 kados I'm not sure how to handle that in a portable way 16:49 slef might be safer to leave it to the packaging system 16:49 slef (s) 16:51 kados slef: ping me when you're back 17:13 thd kados: have we switched to git? 17:13 kados thd: we have 17:14 kados thd: announcement forthcoming 17:14 thd kados: so my CVS commits will have no effect? 17:15 kados well, someone has to manually merge them with git 17:15 kados so far there have only been 5-6 or so 17:17 thd I am about to commit another 6 17:20 kados hmmm 17:20 kados thd: do you have git installed? 17:25 slef phone 17:25 thd not yet 18:33 thd kados: so I have committed to CVS. I will have to learn git later. marc21_simple_bib_frameworks.sql now has authority links in CVS. 18:38 kados thanks thd 18:39 kados thd: does it also have the extra column for default value? 18:39 thd kados: the copy in HEAD does 18:42 thd kados: all 10 frameworks files for rel_2_2 and HEAD have been updated 18:43 thd s/10/10 MARC 21/ 18:44 thd kados: the only thing missing is last year's MARC 21 bibliographic format changes which were announced a few months ago. 18:53 kados thd: I'll update git 18:53 kados thd: thanks! 20:06 slef hahahaha 20:07 slef ---- Unsatisfied dependencies detected during [K/KO/KOHA/koha-2.9.2007081719.tar.gz] ----- 20:07 slef Shall I follow them and prepend them to the queue of modules we are processing right now? [yes] 20:07 slef now that's what I call music! 04:15 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el n=russel@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz