Time Nick Message 12:00 chris i helped out? 12:00 Brooke all the time 12:00 chris ahh :) cool thanks 12:01 Brooke virtual chocs can be delivered from anywhere to anywhere else 12:01 Brooke no nut allergies, too :) 12:03 chris hehe 12:03 Brooke dumb question 12:03 chris fire away 12:04 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: rangi n=nchris@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz 12:04 Brooke how do I look at Book Funds? I'm clicking the little 100 and 101 for ALLCOM and Others over at the Liblime demo, and that seems to go over to an add screen. 12:05 chris ahh you want to see what has been spent in the bookfund instead? 12:05 Brooke yeah where do I need to clickerate for that 12:05 chris i think those templates dont have that set up 12:06 Brooke d'oh 12:06 chris lemme find a page that does and check its what you are after 12:06 chris and if so, then we can make put that on the todo list for the npl templates 12:06 Brooke hi jaro 12:06 Brooke n 12:08 jaron hiya, Brooke 12:08 chris hi jaron 12:08 jaron hi chris 12:08 Brooke how's it going? 12:09 jaron not so bad. 12:09 jaron what brings you to #koha Brooke? 12:10 jaron I don't know that I've seen you around 12:10 Brooke I figured that I'm single handedly helping depression in New Zealand >:) 12:10 chris brooke is our excelllent writer of the excellent Koha newbie guide 12:10 jaron great! 12:10 jaron Brooke 12:10 jaron Brooke++ 12:10 jaron documentation++ 12:10 Brooke You guys have added so many features 12:11 Brooke that the docs are WAY behind 12:11 chris Brooke: http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=9439 12:11 Brooke and folks are asking me all manner of newfangled question 12:11 chris and if you click on the spent column for one of them you end up at 12:11 chris http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=9442 12:11 chris is that what you were meaning? 12:12 Brooke yeah 12:12 Brooke those details lurked in my misty memory 12:12 Brooke but there was an error between the chair and the mouse 12:12 chris cool, yep i think those links are missing in the npl templates 12:13 Brooke I swear I'm not just trying to create work 12:13 chris dont spose either of you guys are going to library camp eh? 12:13 Brooke Library camp you say? 12:13 jaron I'm not going 12:13 chris http://librarycampnyc.wikispaces.com/ 12:13 chris ill be there 12:14 Brooke nutty fudgekins, registration is booked 12:14 chris doh i should have asked sooner 12:15 chris where do you live brooke? 12:15 Brooke real close in Albany 12:16 Brooke world tour! 12:16 jaron anything going on in Philly? 12:16 chris athens ohio :) 12:16 Brooke shhhh 12:16 Brooke we'll have Greece soon 12:16 chris cheesesteaks jaron 12:17 Brooke It's an easy invasion from Italy. >:) 12:17 jaron they've been in the news lately--cheesesteaks 12:17 chris Brooke:got an invite to do a paper for a greek library conference :) 12:18 chris jaron: you on facebook? 12:18 jaron nope--why? 12:18 chris if so i can send you a link to something going down near philly 12:21 chris :) 12:30 chris hmm i wonder whats for breakfast .. what do you americans eat donuts and coffee? :P 12:32 jaron I'd prefer a bagel if I was going to have something round with a hole in the middle 12:32 chris good suggestion 12:32 jaron have you been to the States much? 12:32 chris yeah, my wife is from Pittsburgh originally 12:32 jaron I'm from the 'Burgh myself 12:33 chris oh cool 12:33 chris shes from west view 12:33 jaron well, to the east 12:33 jaron Penn Hills and Monroeville 12:33 chris ohh cool 12:34 chris we get back to pgh usually once every couple of years 12:34 jaron that's about how often I get back there 12:35 jaron now that I go back I see that it's not such a bad place in a lot of ways 12:35 jaron when I was younger all I wanted to do was get out of there 12:35 chris yeah i quite like it 12:35 kados mornin 12:35 chris yeah, laurel and her brothers were the same 12:35 jaron Warhol, too :) 12:36 jaron hi, kados 12:41 chris jaron:: i saw the steelers play the browns in cleveland once, i think the fact i was an nzer was the only thing that saved me from being beaten up for cheering for the steelers :) 12:41 jaron heh 12:50 chris ok off to get some food 15:04 foxnorth hi all... 15:04 foxnorth kados around? 15:05 kados hey foxnorth 15:05 dewey foxnorth is the programmer working on the new cataloging app for google summer of code 15:05 foxnorth hey kados 15:05 foxnorth just reading through your emai-- i like your ideas 15:05 kados sweet 15:05 foxnorth i'm not clear though how you envision the tabs working-- 15:06 foxnorth do you see just two tabs total, one for work stuff and one for options? 15:06 foxnorth or do you envision tabs within that work module for searching etc (kind of like now), and then another main options tab? 15:07 kados well ... good question 15:07 kados y'know, I'm not sure what the function if the second-level tabs (kind of like now) are 15:07 kados s/if/of/ 15:08 kados I guess just that you can have several things going on at once? 15:08 kados was there a plan to make interaction between tabs possible at some point? 15:08 foxnorth right...so you can have a couple of records open if you want to, to compare 15:08 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: darcilicious n=plinkit@159.121.122.150 15:08 foxnorth ah that's a good point, i hadn't thought of that exactly 15:08 foxnorth hhhm 15:08 jaron is that comparing in like a split view? 15:08 kados well, if we want to do a split view, that should be a feature 15:09 foxnorth a split view would work better in this case, you guys are right 15:09 kados ie, you select one or more records, put them into the 'split view' folder 15:09 foxnorth interesting idea 15:09 kados then you go into that folder and look at them, merge fields, etc. 15:09 foxnorth and maybe use something like your marc diff program jaron? 15:09 jaron I've done something like diff for my ruby script 15:09 foxnorth right- that's a very cool idea 15:10 kados chris also wrote a side-by-side merge thing for the koha marc editor 15:10 jaron but gui could make it much better 15:10 kados *nod* 15:10 foxnorth interesting 15:10 foxnorth hhmm.... 15:10 foxnorth i guess i had originally envisioned being able to have multiple record tabs open, but i think you guys might have a better idea here... 15:10 kados but i think the main thing now is, we need to take a step back and look at the overall ui design and workflows 15:11 foxnorth after all, switching between tabs isn't too great 15:11 foxnorth yeah i agree 15:11 jaron can I take a look at what you've got so far? 15:11 foxnorth definately! 15:11 jaron priv msg if you want 15:11 kados done 15:12 kados foxnorth: so what I'd say is, we have three tabs: search' 'edit' and 'options' 15:12 foxnorth uh huh 15:12 kados if you click on 'edit' without doing a search, you can make a new record 15:12 foxnorth would have to make that explicit 15:12 kados actually, maybe we shouldn't have an edit tab 15:13 foxnorth but that would work and be simpler than current approach 15:13 kados that'd be kinda confusing actually 15:13 foxnorth right- where would we stick the editor, though, if we have just 1 work tab? 15:13 jaron search should happen with an [ENTER] in the search box, btw. 15:13 foxnorth yeah, you're right 15:13 kados jaron: yea, that's on the list :-) 15:14 kados *thinking* 15:14 foxnorth the editor needs to be full screen and take up enough room to see it... 15:14 kados absolutely 15:14 foxnorth so the preview panel wouldn't be big enough 15:14 kados well, lets take zimbra 15:14 foxnorth i've got it open now 15:14 kados when you're reading a message, you don't see the list of messages 15:14 foxnorth is that right? 15:14 kados when you're making a new message, you don't see the list of messages 15:14 kados it's contextual 15:15 kados which I think makes a lot of sense 15:15 kados cuz you're really only ever doing one thing 15:15 foxnorth can you dbl click message to view it? can't seem to do that 15:15 kados ahh, do you have your preview pane on? 15:15 foxnorth i see it in the preview pane only 15:15 foxnorth yeah 15:15 kados well click on 'reply' 15:16 kados you'll see the list of messages goes away 15:16 foxnorth aaah 15:16 kados I guess for reading, you don't need the list to go away 15:16 foxnorth that makes more sense 15:16 foxnorth ok well this is a good example of how to do it 15:16 foxnorth just clicking edit button opens it up like this or something 15:16 kados *nod* 15:16 foxnorth and closing returns you to search list and preview 15:16 kados exactly 15:16 jaron what's a good search? I get search completed but to results :( 15:17 kados jaron: xml 15:17 foxnorth and record list can change depending on whether you click search results folder or save folder over at left 15:17 foxnorth try xml as keyword 15:17 kados foxnorth: yea 15:17 kados foxnorth: that'd be quite trick I think 15:17 foxnorth jaron: i don't *think* "console not defined" errors should be popping up 15:17 kados and each server can be represented as a 'folderish' object 15:17 foxnorth right that's a great idea 15:17 kados ie, it changes the view 15:17 foxnorth as well as save files 15:18 jaron yeah, you definitely want to associate hit with servers 15:18 foxnorth and you just have 1 current search open at a time 15:18 kados jaron: it does already 15:18 jaron if I get a record from a good source I do less editing than some other sources 15:18 foxnorth right 15:18 kados jaron: look at the left-hand ... but it's just text for now 15:18 jaron I'm still not getting any records to show up :( 15:18 foxnorth arg 15:18 foxnorth can you install/open firebug? 15:18 kados might need to delete your google gears directory 15:18 kados er ... the db for eowyn 15:19 kados bbiab 15:19 foxnorth jaron: could be there's an error which i thought i had fixed- if you check in firebug we can nail it down 15:20 foxnorth jaron: just checked on mine 15:20 foxnorth jaron: it is this debugging i have on 15:21 foxnorth jaron: hang on 1 sec while i change that 15:21 jaron k 15:22 foxnorth jaron: sorry- try refreshign whole app now 15:22 foxnorth jaron: should work 15:22 foxnorth jaron: my fault for updating but not turning off debugging 15:22 jaron ok, now it works--thanks 15:23 foxnorth there actually should be a paging bar (records 1 of 40...) which apparently isn't displaying :( 15:23 foxnorth i need to put that at the top of the list i think 15:23 foxnorth brb 15:26 jaron hmmm...up and down arrows skip over records in the results 15:26 foxnorth jaron: hhm lemme try that 15:26 foxnorth jaron: hhm doesn't seem to be skipping for me, but preview panel doesn't get updated 15:26 foxnorth strange 15:27 jaron and then I want to just hit enter to edit the highlighted record 15:27 jaron other little interface issues, but just quibbles right now :) 15:27 foxnorth good idea 15:27 foxnorth all is welcome! 15:28 foxnorth jaron: did you check the editor out? 15:29 jaron and I'm happy with the present layout of results and tabs for editing as long as I can use keystrokes to navigate between tabs 15:29 foxnorth uh huh 15:29 jaron yeah, some fields get cut off the bottom by the status bar 15:29 foxnorth yeah, that's no good 15:30 foxnorth and there's still a lot of whitespace in the editor, isn't there? 15:30 foxnorth tags could be closer spaced vertically i think 15:30 jaron yeah, it seem sthe indicators take up more than one line height 15:30 foxnorth fixed field editor still looks a little jumbled 15:30 jaron though it's good that they're narrower now :) 15:30 jaron yes, it does 15:31 jaron that's a difficult one because you don't want line breaks if you want to keep the same layout as other bib tools 15:32 foxnorth yeah 15:32 foxnorth and i wanted to keep subfields all together within a tag like other programs 15:32 foxnorth instead of breaking them out vertically or something 15:33 jaron I do like the subfield coloring 15:33 foxnorth cool i really wanted that 15:33 foxnorth hard enough to read tags as it is 15:33 jaron for some reason when I click to edit a field the font gets smaller? 15:33 foxnorth yeah it does- it's opening up a little wysiwyg html editor in there 15:34 foxnorth need to fix that of course 15:34 jaron i wonder if it'd be good to be more compact and have zebra stripes 15:34 foxnorth if we stick with this editor implementation 15:34 foxnorth yeah, zebra stripes are a good idea 15:34 foxnorth what else would you look for in an editor? 15:34 jaron allows the lines to be closer together and still tell what belongs to what 15:34 foxnorth i personally am a huge fan of keystrokes 15:34 foxnorth yeah 15:35 jaron I don't want to click between fields to edit them I definitely want keyboard control it's faster 15:35 foxnorth as well as updating things like 260 |c from fixed field Date1 15:35 foxnorth agreed 15:35 foxnorth i definately want that too 15:35 foxnorth can't stand mouse when cataloging 15:36 jaron have you thought about scripted or macro-like changes? might be getting ahead of things 15:36 foxnorth definately 15:36 jaron good 15:36 foxnorth i'd like to allow plugins to do stuff like that 15:36 jaron nice 15:36 foxnorth make the editor as flexible and scriptable as possible 15:36 foxnorth this is always what i strived for when cataloging! 15:37 foxnorth with macros and such 15:37 jaron try clicking in the editor on a field that has more than one line--ie wraps 15:37 jaron I can't do it right now 15:37 jaron won't give focus to that field 15:37 foxnorth really... 15:37 foxnorth i just managed it 15:38 foxnorth could be these little wysiwyg editors misbehaving 15:38 foxnorth i've had some misgivings about them 15:38 foxnorth adn i'm not certain we should stick with them 15:38 foxnorth could be better to have 1 big wysiwyg editor 15:38 foxnorth and then parse fields to extract marc after 15:38 foxnorth instead of having individual divs for each tag etc 15:38 foxnorth not sure 15:38 jaron perl has marcmaker/breaker that could do that 15:38 jaron only problem is you would probably loose context sensitive help 15:39 foxnorth that's right 15:39 foxnorth which is 1 reason i split them up 15:39 foxnorth that, and being able to drag/drop as well 15:39 foxnorth it's a dilemma... 15:40 foxnorth did you manage to get that multi line thing to focus? 15:40 jaron in the best world you would have a choice 15:40 foxnorth heh 15:40 foxnorth well, that could be done 15:40 jaron no. it puts focus on the line above or below 15:40 foxnorth ah hah 15:40 jaron call it the experts editor 15:40 foxnorth haven't encountered that 15:40 foxnorth hhmm 15:41 jaron seems to only happen when there are more than one lines with wraps in a row? 15:41 foxnorth interesting 15:41 foxnorth lemme try on a diff record 15:41 jaron XML Schema Essentials 15:41 jaron the 856 lines 15:42 foxnorth that's just what i've got open 15:42 foxnorth but it's working for me 15:42 foxnorth but i think these things may be a little flaky 15:42 jaron do the 856 lines wrap for you? 15:42 jaron try a narrower browser window 15:43 foxnorth actually no, just the 505 15:43 foxnorth ah wait 15:43 foxnorth just clicked one and only the top focuses 15:43 foxnorth doh 15:43 foxnorth the problem is they've all got the same id! 15:43 jaron yeah 15:43 foxnorth silly me 15:44 foxnorth better make a note of that one 15:44 foxnorth a doozy 15:44 jaron while we're at it--there are two buttons between the tabs and the search and they are partly obscured 15:44 jaron I can only see what they are from tooltips 15:45 jaron search and save 15:45 foxnorth ah yeah 15:45 foxnorth thsoe are small demo icons 15:45 foxnorth we'll do something more visible 15:45 jaron k 15:46 foxnorth probably i'll use jquery to assign unique id's to multiple tags and then return them to single id for extracting marc on save 15:46 foxnorth that should work i think 15:47 jaron yeah, you got me there 15:47 jaron well, lunch time 15:47 jaron feel free to ping anytime me if you need someone to poke at it more 15:47 foxnorth hey thanks for all the ideas! it'd be great to integrate some of your ruby scripts as plugins for this thing! 15:48 jaron yeah, I could rewrite some in perl even 15:48 jaron they're really trivial 15:48 foxnorth cool 15:48 jaron but together get a lot of work done 15:50 foxnorth very cool- what i always wanted to do as cataloger1 16:03 kados akk 16:03 kados sorry foxnorth 16:06 kados foxnorth: so ... 16:06 kados foxnorth: did we resolve the tabs stuff enough? what's the plan again? 16:08 kados ooh, jaron has some great ideas 16:08 foxnorth yeah! 16:10 foxnorth what do we think about the tabs then? 16:10 foxnorth i like the idea of having a clean interface with just the 1 search/edit tab 16:10 kados yea, i guess we need to chat abotu that 16:10 kados I think I agree 16:10 kados maybe ... 16:10 foxnorth and a persistent left hand folder tree as in zimbra? 16:10 kados Biblios | Authorities | Holdings | Options 16:10 foxnorth although having multiple record editors open wouldn't work so well 16:11 kados should be the tabs 16:11 kados maybe ... 16:11 foxnorth although what if i don't want to edit authorities and holdings? 16:11 kados well, you don't have to 16:11 foxnorth then they would be kind of useless for me 16:11 kados yep 16:11 foxnorth hhhmm 16:11 kados well in zimbra, if you don't use the 'documents' feature, it's useless 16:11 foxnorth true 16:11 kados but it's still a separate module 16:12 kados i think the point of the tabs is separate modules 16:12 kados so we might have another module later on we want to add 16:12 foxnorth hhmm.....i coudl see that 16:12 foxnorth sure 16:12 kados (mabe in fact, the current tab is for biblios, authorities, holdings ... I dunno) 16:12 kados for at least for now we really just have two tabs I think 16:13 foxnorth and get around the multiple open records with the split idea 16:13 kados *nod* 16:13 foxnorth sorry i seem to be hung up on that! :) 16:13 foxnorth but the split idea is a good one 16:13 foxnorth and so each search would be put in a recent searches button/area 16:13 kados yup 16:14 foxnorth but only 1 search would be open at once in the view pane 16:14 kados yep 16:14 kados for now 16:14 foxnorth divided into server folders on the left hand tree list 16:14 kados I think for now we should focus on the core tasks 16:14 foxnorth agreed 16:14 kados and making the interface work smoothly for those 16:14 foxnorth yeah 16:14 foxnorth i think the tree list i the last ui element of extjs i haven't used 16:15 foxnorth will be fun to learn 16:15 foxnorth and very intuitive 16:15 foxnorth for the end user i hope 16:15 kados w00t 16:15 kados I can't wait until i can drag-drop a record from results into my save file :-) 16:15 foxnorth me too 16:15 foxnorth in terms of save files 16:16 foxnorth definately want to be able to name them to keep track of various projects etc 16:17 foxnorth maybe best to create a new save file table to keep track of data about them 16:17 foxnorth as it currently stands, the save files exist only in so far as each record has a particular status 16:17 foxnorth not sure how complex we want to get 16:17 foxnorth but for the future, a new table might allow more room for growth 16:18 foxnorth ? 16:18 kados my idea 16:18 kados is to have save 'folders' 16:18 foxnorth right 16:18 kados so you have a root folder, and you can add new folders 16:18 kados and they should nest 16:18 foxnorth each would be row in save file table 16:18 foxnorth yeah 16:19 foxnorth that would be cool 16:19 kados so we have some default folders that you can'd delete 16:19 kados drafts is one 16:19 foxnorth how to track folder nesting in save file sql table? 16:19 foxnorth that's a good idea 16:19 kados trash is another 16:19 foxnorth yeah 16:19 kados saved is another 16:19 kados then you can add subfolders to the saved one 16:19 kados if you want to further organize 16:19 foxnorth sure 16:20 chris http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:git_usage 16:20 kados ext had some folder nesting stuff ... how do they track it? 16:20 kados there are a couple ways to handle it in sql 16:20 foxnorth not sure how they do it 16:20 foxnorth may just be populated from xml and that's it 16:20 kados nested sets (hard to understand, but fast) 16:21 kados and store parentid is the other way 16:21 foxnorth makes sense 16:21 kados and order if you want to get fancy 16:21 foxnorth how do you mean? 16:22 kados well, probably makes sense to just order the folders by alphabetical 16:22 foxnorth ah you mean sorting them 16:22 kados yea 16:22 foxnorth actually i think ext has a tree sorter of some sorts 16:23 foxnorth have you checked out the extjs documentation page? some good examples on there 16:23 kados cool 16:23 foxnorth http://extjs.com/deploy/ext/docs/index.html 16:23 kados yea, i did peek yesterday 16:23 foxnorth ok let's see then 16:23 foxnorth 2 main tabs: a work tab and an options tab for now 16:24 kados yep 16:24 foxnorth within work tab a left hand tree list with servers to search/save and save folders 16:24 kados yep 16:24 foxnorth and a dual vertical pane in the middle with grid for view search results or save file 16:24 foxnorth then opening a record from one of those 16:24 foxnorth hides that contentpanel and shows the editor panel 16:24 kados brilliant 16:24 foxnorth closing record will of course return to default view 16:25 kados you got it 16:25 foxnorth that sounds very cool 16:25 kados and resident 'action' buttons that let the user perform tasks 16:25 foxnorth right 16:25 foxnorth at top of tab 16:25 kados they have labels, icons and tooltips 16:25 foxnorth right 16:25 foxnorth and change according to srch results, save file or editor views 16:25 dewey foxnorth: that doesn't look right 16:26 kados yep, exactly 16:26 foxnorth good 16:26 foxnorth i think this will be a lot easier to navigate 16:26 foxnorth along with keyboard shortcuts 16:26 foxnorth (got to have those) 16:26 kados yep 16:26 kados hehe, should keep you busy :-) 16:26 foxnorth alright so time to get coding! 16:27 foxnorth brb 16:51 foxnorth scratch that-- bbiab 19:18 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el n=russel@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz 19:23 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> heya ru55el :) 19:24 chris thats 'new dad' russel :) 19:27 [K] <ru55el@FreeNode> hiya darci 19:27 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> that's right!! 19:27 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> congratulations!! :) 19:28 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> heya, chris -- how's the u.s. treating you so far? :) 19:28 chris so far so good 19:29 [K] <ru55el@FreeNode> thanks darci 19:32 chris its hot though :) 19:34 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> that's right, it's winter time where you came from :) 19:35 chris sure is, its some mental heat here today .. 92f (thats 33c for russ) 19:36 chris and it was about 12c when i left wellington 19:36 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> yowza 19:44 [K] * ru55el@FreeNode wonders off 19:44 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: ru55el n=russel@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz 19:48 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el n=russel@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz 21:57 kados foxnorth_away: still around? 21:57 kados foxnorth_away: eowyn seems to have gone away 22:13 [K] <darcilicious@FreeNode> gotta go... 22:13 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: darcilicious n=plinkit@159.121.122.150 22:19 foxnorth_away kados: oops 22:19 foxnorth_away kados: lemme recopy that over to www 22:20 foxnorth_away \me checking 22:21 foxnorth_away kados: ok it's back. sorry 'bout that. my mistake when updating svn 22:22 kados Trouble with db: Database operation failed. ERROR: database is locked DETAIL: database is locked 22:23 kados could we have a 'unlock db' button added to that error? 22:23 kados otherwise I have to delete the db every time 22:32 foxnorth yeah that's getting annoying isn't it. i've been closing and reopening firefox to get around 22:33 foxnorth i need to investigate why that's popping up 22:33 foxnorth i *think* i'm now closing all db connections 22:33 foxnorth but it's entirely possible i've missed one/some or that's not it at all ... 23:17 kados w00t 09:21 Brooke hi 09:47 chris hey brooke, just sent you an email 09:47 chris you're up early .. whats ur excuse mine is my body thinks its in nz still :) 09:47 Brooke Outstanding, I'll check it in a sec - I'm mid email 09:47 Brooke I don't do the whole sleep thing well 09:47 Brooke Koha is a great excuse :D 09:48 chris hehe 09:51 Brooke I love having something to do no matter the hour. The world has to put me to some use for all the oxygen I steal 09:51 chris lol 09:56 Brooke :) 09:56 Brooke Wow that was quick 09:56 Brooke Chris ++ 09:56 Brooke only my coding loops infinitely 09:57 Brooke Ah