Time  Nick         Message
12:14 kados        hdl: still around?
12:14 hdl          yes
12:14 kados        hdl: g'morning :-)
12:15 kados        hdl: did you have a chance to troubleshoot the SQL file?
12:15 hdl          not yet
12:18 hdl          In fact, ipt  rel30 counts  87 tables.
12:18 hdl          So we may have all the tables.
12:19 kados        hdl: any idea what that error is then?
12:19 hdl          No. I couldnot investiguate yesterday
12:19 kados        morning owen, jaron
12:20 jaron        g'morning owen & kados
12:20 kados        hdl: i think the SQL defs are the primary thing holding us back from a 'development' release
12:21 hdl          hi owen jaron and kados.
12:21 hdl          kados.
12:21 hdl          I will make it today.
12:21 kados        (just a friendly RM reminder ;-))
12:21 kados        hdl++
12:46 owen         Patrons should be able to cancel a reserve online!
12:47 kados        owen: they can't?
12:47 owen         Not unless this is a secret which has been kept from me :)
12:48 kados        probably not added, but it would be a trivial feature to add
12:49 kados        there's already a separate column for reserves in the account page, right?
12:49 owen         A separate tab
12:49 kados        that's what I meant
12:50 kados        ahh, I see now:
12:50 kados        If you no longer want a reserve, please send us an e-mail, or go to the circulation desk at your library to get it removed.
12:50 kados        hmmm
12:54 kados        owen:
12:54 kados        add the following somewhere in the template:
12:54 kados        <form action="/cgi-bin/koha/opac-modrequest.pl" method="post">
12:54 kados                <input type="hidden" name="from" value="borrower" />
12:54 kados                <input name="rank-request" value="del">
12:54 kados                <input type="hidden" name="biblio" value="16595" />
12:54 kados                <input type="hidden" name="borrowernumber" value="22994" />
12:54 kados                <input type="submit" name="submit" value="Remove" /></p>
12:54 kados        </form>
12:55 kados        owen: the biblio and borrowernumber numbers will need to be TMPL_VARs
12:55 owen         Will that redirect back to the reserves list?
12:55 kados        remove that stray </p> too
12:55 kados        owen: yep
12:59 owen         Hey, works like a charm
12:59 kados        :-)
12:59 kados        ok, I'll commit my script, you can commit the template :-)
12:59 [K]          *** join #koha@FreeNode: dbs n=dan@pdpc/supporter/active/denials
13:00 owen         Sure. I'm going to take a moment to add a javascript confirm
13:00 kados        *nod*
13:01 kados        hey dbs
13:02 [K]          <dbs@FreeNode> Figured I might as well auto-join #koha :)
13:03 kados        :-)
13:05 [K]          <dbs@FreeNode> btw, whenever you guys do hit a point where you think 3.0 is installable / testable from HEAD, please let me know and I'll be happy to give it a whirl
13:05 kados        dbs: thanks ... much appreciated
13:06 kados        bbl
13:06 [K]          <dbs@FreeNode> (and document whatever steps aren't fully documented / whip up a vmware image for other testers)
13:06 kados        dbs++
13:07 hdl          kados : some questions when you are back.
13:21 kados        hdl: back
13:22 hdl          first : ipt asked me some modifications into detailed page and that would entice changing some fields definitions.
13:23 hdl          So can I send you a report of all the things that need to be changed ?
13:23 kados        hdl: the detail page as in the detail page for a record?
13:23 hdl          yes.
13:24 hdl          that is to say changing some Kohafield length...
13:24 kados        right
13:24 kados        can you send it to koha-devel?
13:24 kados        let others weigh in also?
13:24 hdl          For instance, passing ISBN to more than 14.
13:25 hdl          I will report all their demands.
13:25 hdl          This is important for base structure requirements.
13:26 kados        agreed
13:27 hdl          Second, do you have an marcxml2ISBD stylesheet example ?
13:27 hdl          I have some from loc.
13:27 kados        I don't have a marcxml2isbd example
13:27 kados        specifically
13:27 dewey        specifically is not working?
13:28 kados        sec
13:28 hdl          But I think if it would be good to use xsl for ISBD rather than our ISBD parsing.
13:28 kados        I 100% agree
13:28 kados        I think we should use xsl for all detail displays
13:29 kados        hdl: http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/opac-tmpl/compact.xsl
13:29 hdl          In fact, there would me 3 modes, summary, ISBD, and complete.
13:30 kados        IMO the ideal would be to store the XSL in a syspref
13:30 kados        we don't really need multiple views
13:30 kados        ie, patrons don't care about that
13:30 kados        at least IMO ;-)
13:31 owen         kados: there are some other changes to NPL's opac-user.tmpl that hadn't been committed, so I checked our copy of opac-user.pl as well, and it too has changes that don't seem to have been committed.
13:31 owen         Can you take a look at our opac-user.pl and commit the changes if everything looks good?
13:32 owen         I don't want to commit a template that's not in synch with the script.
13:32 kados        owen: sure
13:34 hdl          kados: when librarians navigate between Summary and ISBD, we should be able to provide them with both.
13:35 kados        hdl: sure
13:35 hdl          Summary is really important for result lists.
13:35 kados        yep
13:35 hdl          And since any library want to personnalize the list, it would be good to leave it up to them in siche a file.
13:37 kados        sure
13:37 kados        I'd say post it to the list and see what others say
13:38 kados        owen: a bit more verifying than I have time for this morning, can you send a mail to support requesting it?
13:38 owen         Sure
13:39 kados        morning foxnorth
13:39 foxnorth     hey kados- just the guy i'm looking for! :)
13:40 kados        :-)
13:40 foxnorth     got a few minutes?
13:40 kados        sure
13:45 kados        hdl: we need to make the OPAC redirect to the Staff for the Installer
13:46 hdl          (kados : xsl should not be stored in system preference but rather in itemtypes and there is already sthg for summary : summary defined by paul... Could be changed to longtext and input via interface. All we would have to do is add xsl processing and an ISBD field.)
13:46 hdl          sorry  ?
13:46 kados        hdl: pre-installation, the OPAC redirects to /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl
13:46 hdl          you mean. we should tell at OPAC : wait for the librarian to set up Koha ?
13:47 kados        hdl: yea, that would work too
13:47 hdl          too ?
13:47 kados        either one would be OK
13:48 hdl          OK.
15:11 [K]          *** join #koha@FreeNode: darcilicious n=plinkit@159.121.122.150
15:11 [K]          <darcilicious@FreeNode> hola! :-)
15:18 lloyd        well I suppose i'll say hello as everyone else is being rude :)
15:27 kados        hey lloyd
15:27 [K]          <darcilicious@FreeNode> lloyd :)
15:32 lloyd        omg.. microsoft just completely borked my exchange server!
15:33 hdl          kados: is there a data design modell document ?
15:33 hdl          online ?
15:33 hdl          MCD in Franch.
15:33 kados        hdl: just paul's on the wiki that I know of
15:33 hdl          I cant find it.
15:34 kados        huh, neither can I :(
15:34 kados        yet another reason to move to plone :-)
15:34 kados        ok, I gotta run
15:34 hdl          :P
15:34 hdl          run forest
15:35 kados        :-)
15:35 kados        later all
15:44 lloyd        if anyone uses WSUS and Exchange 2007 don't let it install Exchange 2007 Rollup 3
16:23 kyle_        hey all, I've essentially completed my Koha Offline Circulation program, If anyone is interested, I'll package it up. The client is written in Java and the server is written in perl. It uses XML-RPC for communication. The only thing I can't seem to get working is XML-RPC over SSL. I'm still working on that. I think it may be the version of Java I'm using.
16:24 jaron        kyle_++
16:24 kyle_        thanks.
16:24 jaron        I don't have a use for that myself, but know that many big libraries would like to have such functionality.
16:25 ryan         hi kyle_
16:25 kyle_        I've been working on a solution on and off, but when our internal network went down for an hour or two, I made offline circ a top priority.
16:25 kyle_        hey ryan
16:25 ryan         how do you store the data on the client ?
16:26 kyle_        The data is stored in memory, and can later be saved to a file. When first run, it asks for a file and will continuously write the data out to that file, if you so choose.
16:27 jaron        kyle_: how do you then move the information back into the production server?
16:28 kyle_        Using XML-RPC. I wrote an XML-RPC server using perl Frontier library.
16:29 kyle_        It uses the C4 libraries to actually authenticate, issue and return items.
16:30 ryan         so it runs on the production server
16:30 ryan         does it throw back errors or warnings to the client when encountered ?
16:30 kyle_        yes, it's just another file in cgi-bin
16:30 jaron        What happens if production server is down? Is this still useful?
16:32 kyle_        sort of, one can never verify the success of many C4 function calls, because function like checkin have no return value.
16:32 kyle_        jaron, the point of it is to run the client until the production server is back up, then syncronize the data from the offline circ client to the production server.
16:33 kyle_        but the client does verify that the call to the server was successful. If an attempt to synchronize data fails, the client continues to store that data.
16:33 jaron        cool. ok, so I am understanding how it works. :)
16:34 jaron        gotcha
16:34 kyle_        it's not pretty, but it's functional. It will process issues, renewals, and returns.
16:34 jaron        well, functional is what you need in those situations.
16:35 jaron        better than pen and paper, huh? :)
16:35 kyle_        indeed ; )
16:35 kyle_        *much* better than pen and paper.
16:35 ryan         very nice, kyle_
16:36 kyle_        Thanks. I'll write up some documentation and package up the program and put it on my site.
16:36 jaron        kyle_: maybe a screenshot?
16:37 kyle_        will do.
16:37 jaron        thanks
16:41 kyle_        http://catalog.ccfls.org/koc_snapshot.png
16:41 jaron        kyle_++
16:42 jaron        Looks super simple.
16:42 jaron        Exactly the kind of simple interface you need for something you're hopefully not going to be running much.
16:43 [K]          <dbs@FreeNode> Just don't use the acronym to refer to the offline client :)
16:43 kyle_        thanks. It's amazing how much code is required for even a simple gui interface.
16:43 jaron        dbs: heh
16:43 kyle_        what would you call it, [K]?
16:44 jaron        kyle_: [K] is a bot. that was dbs speaking.
16:44 jaron        from over on freenode
16:44 kyle_        ok
16:44 kyle_        I don't know what your talking about, but I'll accept it ; )
16:45 jaron        [K] is a relay bot. he takes messages from the freenode #koha channel and sends them over to this channel.
16:45 kyle_        so it ties to IRC channels together?
16:45 jaron        the part to look at for the person actually typing is nick@Freenode. see?
16:46 jaron        kyle_: yes
16:46 jaron        in case anyone wanders over to freenode looking for koha folks
16:47 kyle_        ok. any suggestions on name the offline circ client, i've just been calling it KohaOfflineCirculation, with the server being kocd
16:47 jaron        How about Offline Koha?
16:47 jaron        O.K.
16:48 jaron        system goes down--you're still O.K.
16:48 kyle_        heh, heh ; )
16:48 owen         kyle_, what happens if when you're offline you check something out to someone who is actually debarred?
16:49 kyle_        it gets checked out, reguardless. It's in that persons possesion, so it gets checked out.
16:49 jaron        It would be nice once you update into production to get a report of those kinds of warning, though.  Something to think about.
16:50 owen         That makes sense--so it bypasses whatever restriction would normally be in place. Does it handle issuing rules the same way? Someone checks out a non-circulating reference item for instance?
16:50 kyle_        yes, that would be nice. I suppose it could also run as a background proccess and periodically get lists of debarred patrons and th elike.
16:51 kyle_        I haven't tried that, but I believe it will still issue the item. I would hope a librarian would catch that one though ; )
16:51 jaron        owen: hopefully the circulation staff catch that one
16:51 jaron        jinx
16:51 kyle_        heh ; )
16:51 owen         Sure, I'm just running down possible snags
16:52 owen         When you synchronize with online Koha, how does it handle reserve messages on returned items?
16:52 kyle_        Always a good idea.
16:52 kyle_        It doesn't.
16:53 owen         ( here at NPL we spent quite a bit of time working out what would be required for an offline system and I even hacked together some PHP stuff but it never got far )
16:53 kyle_        We dont' use koha reserves yet, so I haven't thought about that.
16:53 kyle_        That should be in some kind of post-sync report as well.
16:54 kyle_        if you documented any of those offline circ requirements, I would take a look at them.
16:54 owen         The way it stands, when something gets checked in that's on reserve it wouldn't be allocated would it? It wouldn't be marked as found?
16:55 kyle_        I imagine not.
16:56 owen         As long as reserved items weren't marked as found, you could simply wait until they showed up on the reserve list. You wouldn't necessarily even need a report. But a report would be good too.
16:57 owen         Is the client careful to synch Issues data before returns data?
16:57 owen         Or does it do everything sequentially?
16:57 kyle_        yes, issues go before returns
16:58 kyle_        wait, no. Returns go before issues. In case a book is returned then issued again.
16:59 owen         But if I check something out and then return it before the system goes back online the book ends up going back on my account.
16:59 kyle_        yes, I see.
16:59 owen         Maybe the client should record timestamps for all transactions and synch issues and returns squentially?
16:59 jaron        unless you're doing the updating by transaction time?
17:01 kyle_        jaron, could you explain?
17:01 jaron        like owen's idea.
17:01 jaron        use timestamps
17:01 jaron        process the earliest transaction first
17:02 kyle_        ok, I see. That could definitley be done. Probably the best way to do it as well.
17:02 kyle_        The client just starts with the first transaction it records, and ends with the last one. All issues and returns are done in chronological order
17:05 owen         I look forward to getting a look at it, kyle_
17:05 jaron        as long as it updates the database in that strict time order then it ought to be alright, methinks.
17:06 kyle_        I'll get interesting when you think about the fact that most libraries will be running multiple clients.
17:06 kyle_        Maybe it would be easier to have the clients just save the files, and have a separate program read all the files at once, arrange the transactions, and commit them to koha.
17:06 jaron        sure. and that's where timestamps could be used to pool all the transactions and sort
17:07 jaron        yep
17:07 kyle_        good brainstorming. I'd better get back to coding ; )
17:07 jaron        might not be easier but ought to be better
17:07 jaron        :)
17:07 kyle_        better is rarely easier ; )
17:53 foxnorth     hdl still around?
17:54 foxnorth     had a question about web installer from the latest CVS-- after running the web installer i'm still being redirected back to it
17:59 hdl          em... normally. you should have a version in your
18:00 hdl          systempreferences
18:00 hdl          and in your koha.xml
18:02 foxnorth     hdl: thanks! lemme see what i've got in there
18:08 kados        ahh, I remember
18:09 kados        <version></version> needs to be in koha.xml
18:09 kados        that's the problem
18:11 foxnorth     this is down in the <config> section?
18:11 kados        yea
18:12 foxnorth     what version number (or do i need to check the systempreferences)?
18:12 kados        doesn't matter
18:12 foxnorth     ah well that makes it easy!
18:12 kados        it doesn't check the value yet, just that it exists :-)
18:12 foxnorth     ok
18:13 foxnorth     do we think i should run the install.pl again?
18:13 kados        yea, drop the db and start over
18:13 foxnorth     ok thx will give it a try
18:13 kados        <kohaversion>
18:13 kados        is actually what it should be
18:13 foxnorth     ok
18:13 kados        <kohaversion></kohaversion>
18:14 foxnorth     here goes...
18:16 foxnorth     it works!
18:16 kados        w00t!
18:16 foxnorth     thanks all!
18:16 kados        now you can find all the bugs :-)
18:16 foxnorth     a bug-hunting i'll go...
18:17 kados        hehe
18:17 kados        that'd be great actually
18:17 kados        the more eyes the better
18:22 kados        ok, now I really do have to leave
18:22 kados        :-)
21:42 martinmorris evening all
21:42 martinmorris got a question about my koha installation when i try to use it through IE 6
21:43 chris        opac or staff side?
21:43 martinmorris staff side
21:43 martinmorris i'm editing a biblio at 100$a
21:43 martinmorris to use a name authority
21:44 martinmorris get an error icon in the bottom left hand corner which, when i click on it, gives this message
21:45 chris        ahh there may be bits that dont work, the opac should work with all browsers, staff side we test hard for firefox but not so many other browsers so it depends on if the person doing the templates has spent time testing/building for IE
21:45 martinmorris sorry my client crashed there
21:45 martinmorris right, so it's possible that it just doesn't work with IE and that's it :)
21:45 chris        could well be :)
21:45 martinmorris so long as i know and it's not something i'm doing wrong
21:46 chris        is it a javascript error you are getting?
21:46 chris        if so, and you have firefox installed, give it a whirl with that, and see if it works
21:47 martinmorris i normally use a mac and had no probs at all, happened to use windows for the first time with it today and got this problem
21:47 martinmorris trying to cut and paste it now
21:47 martinmorris won't let me, OK here's the relevant bits
21:47 martinmorris Error: Invalid argument
21:47 martinmorris Code: 0
21:48 chris        yeah that feels like javascript
21:48 martinmorris URL: http://<hostname>/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl?oldbiblionumber=1110
21:48 chris        yep i think the template has some js that IE doesnt like
21:48 martinmorris might upgrade to ie7 out of curiosity, and spit as i do so :)
21:49 chris        heh
21:50 ryan         martinmorris: marc editor won't work with ie atm
21:50 ryan         works well with Opera
21:50 ryan         and FF
21:50 martinmorris fair enough - thanks
21:50 martinmorris just that my library's staff computers only have IE on without permissions to install anything else
21:52 chris        what we need is someone who knows js and the foibles of IE
21:52 martinmorris if i did, i would happily help
21:54 ryan         yeah, i don't think there's too much to do to get it working
21:54 ryan         just nobody to do it :)
22:04 kados        martinmorris: might want to send a mail to the koha-devel list, addressed to Tumer Garip
22:04 kados        I know he uses IE and the MARC Editor
22:04 martinmorris that means joining the list first i take it? :)
22:05 kados        ahh, yea
22:05 kados        painless though
22:05 kados        http://koha.org/community/mailing-lists.html
22:05 kados        look for the link to Koha Developers List
22:05 martinmorris got it
22:07 martinmorris requested to join now, will see what happens
22:16 kados        martinmorris: went through
22:16 kados        martinmorris: now we just wait for tumer to respond :-)
22:16 kados        martinmorris: he's in Cyprus
23:33 [K]          *** join #koha@FreeNode: darci|away i=plinkit@c-76-105-203-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net
00:23 chris        hey jaron, got a sec?
00:23 jaron        sure, what's up.
00:23 chris        was talking with walter today about ruby-zoom
00:24 chris        http://rubyforge.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=6652&group_id=592&atid=2347
00:24 chris        was wondering if you wanted to add a comment to that, add your voice as one who wants the extended services too
00:25 jaron        I am very interested in extended services.
00:25 chris        i figure if more ppl say "me too" it might get done :)
00:25 jaron        funny thing is just today ed made me a developer on that project
00:25 jaron        thing is I don't know a bit of C to complete the binding
00:25 chris        yeah thats how it came about, i saw ed's blogpost
00:26 chris        yeah my 1991 1st year university C just wont cut it :)
00:26 jaron        I'm not sure whether Laurent would be interested in doing it.
00:26 walter       hey jaron, walter here
00:26 jaron        hey, walter
00:27 walter       yeah, i have a rails plugin that uses the perl api as a fallback
00:27 walter       would like to elimenate that dependency
00:27 jaron        I've been doing the same thing on occassion.
00:27 jaron        I understand that definitely
00:27 jaron        and you're using zebra too?
00:28 walter       yep
00:28 walter       so, if we got someone to put together the ruby-zoom extended services functionality
00:28 walter       you have a line on someone that could get it commited to the project, i take it
00:29 jaron        I think I could commit it now.
00:29 walter       ah, get it now
00:29 walter       didn't realize that you were new committer
00:29 walter       cool
00:29 jaron        ed added me today
00:30 walter       was thinking of putting the word out in local rails community as a project
00:30 jaron        mostly because I submitted a doc patch and had others I'd like to see
00:30 walter       cool
00:31 jaron        yeah, ed got the project only because Laurent didn't really seem interested in it anymore and there was a namespace issue with ruby-marc
00:31 walter       nice that is actually a gem now
00:31 jaron        he just did that today
00:31 jaron        at my prodding
00:31 walter       cool
00:31 walter       nice
00:32 jaron        so the only changes ought to be that it's a gem and some test suite added to it
00:32 walter       i'm working on an installer on my project and that will make it easier for me
00:32 walter       cool
00:32 jaron        haven't even had a chance to look at the testing yet
00:32 jaron        my project just got easier too ;)
00:33 walter       i'll see if i can find someone to do the extended services and let you know
00:33 chris        ok, im gonna grab some lunch, bbiab
00:33 jaron        from what ed said it seemed rather easy to write a binding
00:33 jaron        but that's also coming from ed
00:33 jaron        but I doubt he'd be much interested in the project
00:34 jaron        bbiab
00:40 jaron        walter, that sounds great.
00:43 walter       i just posted to my local rails list, hopefully get a nibble there
00:44 jaron        I don't have any developer connections but definitely let me know what I can do to help make this happen
00:52 walter       will do
02:32 [K]          *** part FreeNode!#koha: dbs n=dan@pdpc/supporter/active/denials
07:40 chris        morning toins
07:41 toins        evening chris
07:41 toins        ;-)
07:52 chris        did you hear about the rugby ball nz is building in paris?
07:53 chris        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00125.htm
07:53 chris        crazy idea :)
07:59 chris        hi hdl and lloyd
08:00 hdl          hi chris.
08:08 lloyd        morning Chris =)
10:17 Fallor       hi
10:17 dewey        que tal, Fallor