Time  Nick   Message
13:21 jaron  toins, can I ask you a question about opencataloger?
13:22 toins  yep jaron
13:22 jaron  are you using z39.50 extended services to get the records into the zebra database?
13:22 jaron  for koha that is.
13:23 toins  jaron: i use ZOOM
13:23 toins  don't know what is z3950 extended services...
13:23 jaron  same thing as zoom
13:23 toins  ah...
13:24 jaron  so you do something like 'update insert record.xml'
13:25 toins  jaron: here is the search script : http://svn.gna.org/viewcvs/opencataloger/trunk/cgi-bin/search.pl?rev=352&view=markup
13:29 jaron  toins: Thank you. I'll have a look at the code.
13:30 toins  your welcome
13:30 jaron  Right now I'm interested in how you get records into the database.
13:30 jaron  would that be in saveToKoha.pl?
13:31 toins  jaron: yes
13:31 jaron  thank you, toins.
14:29 jaron  hmmm... So I've installed koha-3. The marc structure is broken so I can't get records into the system. I can get records into zebra with yaz-client. Is there any way to get them to show up in the catalog now?
14:49 jaron  Is there any way to get records that are directly stored and indexed in zebra to show up in the catalog?
15:49 kados  he jaron_lunch
15:49 kados  jaron_lunch: are you sure it's the MARC structure that's broken?
15:49 kados  I ran the MARC check and it seemed to be fine
15:55 jaron  kados: you're right the MARC Checking shows my configuration is OK.
15:55 kados  I think toins committed some changes to the MARC editor recently
15:55 kados  maybe we should look to roll those back until they're ready?
15:57 jaron  at least for testing it would help to be able to have some records in the system :)
15:57 toins  kados: nope i haven't commited any things on the marc edior atm
15:57 toins  but soon ;-)
15:57 kados  ahh
15:57 kados  cool
15:57 kados  toins: does the current one in 3.0 work for you?
15:57 kados  toins: I'd be curious because we can't seem to get it working
16:01 toins  kados: the current marc editor works well yes
16:01 kados  that's really strange
16:01 kados  maybe it works for UNIMARC and not MARC21?
16:02 toins  don't know for marc21... But it works in 2 libraries in unimarc
16:25 hdl    kados : what do you mean by not working ?
16:25 hdl    you cannot edit ? you cannot save ?
16:28 kados  hdl: can't even view the MARC fields
16:28 kados  hdl: arwen.metavore.com - kohaadmin / PASSWORD
16:30 ryan   don't think that's the right url
16:30 hdl    Is there any bibliographic record?
16:30 hdl    That is OPAC.
16:30 kados  ahh, sorry
16:30 paul   liblime guys are fans of the lord of the ring...
16:30 kados  aragorn.metavore.com
16:30 kados  I got confused with which character it was :-)
16:31 paul   when does those 2 machines get married ?
16:31 kados  (all our servers are named after LOTR characters)
16:31 kados  hehe
16:32 hdl    any bib data to search for ?
16:32 kados  no bib data yet
16:32 kados  just try to add a MARC record
16:35 hdl    no marc structure in aragorn
16:36 hdl    http://aragorn.metavore.com/cgi-bin/koha/admin/marctagstructure.pl?frameworkcode=
16:36 hdl    maybe a problem with framework import ???
16:36 kados  ahh
16:36 kados  but that's not the only prob
16:36 kados  even when the frameworks import it's still a blank MARC page
16:36 kados  just a sec
16:37 kados  I'll re-do the installation
16:37 kados  ok
16:37 kados  I dropped and re-created the db
16:37 kados  hdl: you wanna run the installer?
16:38 kados  see if you get any errors?
16:38 kados  then, try to add a MARC record?
16:38 kados  otherwise I can run the installer and you can try to add a MARC afterwards
16:40 kados  hdl: let me know if you perfer to run the installer or want me to
16:40 hdl    I did.
16:40 kados  cool
16:40 hdl    It works now.
16:41 kados  wow!
16:41 kados  maybe you ran the installer differently than me?
16:42 kados  which frameworks did you select? just mandatory ones?
16:43 kados  jaron: maybe try droping your datbase and running the installer again
16:43 hdl    (ANY)
16:43 hdl    :P
16:44 hdl    When I find things available, I check....
16:44 kados  ok
16:44 kados  paul_away: hdl did you see my mail about kohastructure.sql?
16:44 hdl    ( I wanted to see all the stuff you did.)
16:45 kados  ( right )
16:45 kados  it's strange because I did nothing different last time and the MARC page was blank
16:45 kados  did you run updatedatabase?
16:45 jaron  kados: What do I need to do now?
16:46 kados  jaron: I'm still trying to work it out, but the aragorn.metavore.com MARC editor seems to be working now
16:46 jaron  cool.
16:46 kados  hdl has the magic touch apparantly :-)
16:46 hdl    lol
16:46 hdl    kados : yes
16:48 kados  hdl: whats' your opinion about kohastructure.sql?
16:50 hdl    I agree kohastructure.sql should be authoritative.
16:50 hdl    And should be maintained by someone.
16:51 hdl    (or fixed for ONCE before getting further)
16:51 kados  cool
16:51 kados  so how can we arrive at what the 3.0 kohastructure.sql should be?
16:51 kados  should we have a meeting about it?
16:51 kados  and go through each table?
16:51 hdl    paul is away tommorrow for 2 weeks.
16:51 kados  right
16:52 hdl    I will be away for 2 in 1week time.
16:52 hdl    so now cannot be the time.
16:52 hdl    But 1st place to discuss could be the wiki.
16:53 kados  I would very much like to get a developers' release of 3.0 out this month
16:53 hdl    to explain table by table the field definition
16:53 kados  yes
16:53 hdl    and relation.
16:53 kados  good idea
16:53 kados  do you think you'd have time to work on that this month?
16:53 kados  do we need it before the developers' release?
17:00 kados  hdl: ?
17:00 hdl    Yes, If I work nights that month :P
17:00 kados  hehe
17:01 kados  IKWYM
17:01 kados  so I guess the answer is no
17:01 hdl    No I don't think taht we need such a definition before developer's release.
17:01 kados  which kohastructure.sql should we use for the release?
17:01 hdl    But would be VERY helpful.
17:02 hdl    which one did you use for aragorn ?
17:02 kados  we might need a Database Design Manager
17:02 kados  I ahve three on aragorn :-)
17:02 hdl    not full time but part time, yes
17:03 kados  I think the current one is based on Paul's sqldump
17:03 kados  it doesn't have defaultvalue in marc_subfield_structure though
17:03 kados  and I don't know what else it doens't have
17:06 hdl    maybe we could rely on a 22 base updated to rel30 base ? Couldn't we ?
17:06 kados  i don't trust updatedatabase :-)
17:06 kados  hmmm
17:08 hdl    Moreover updatedatabase fills in some values.
17:09 kados  yea
17:09 hdl    which is not necessary.
17:09 kados  agreed
17:09 hdl    But can give us a structure.
17:09 kados  maybe we could use one of the french libraries who are running 3.0 in production?
17:09 kados  as the structure?
17:09 kados  (for the developers' release)
17:10 kados  LANG=C mysqldump -cnQ koha >kohastructure.sql
17:10 kados  according to MJ is a good way
17:10 kados  to get it
17:10 hdl    that is to say what paul commited.
17:10 hdl    more or less.
17:10 kados  the one paul committed failed for me
17:10 kados  i did a bug on it
17:10 hdl    I will take this part tomorrow.
17:11 kados  ok
17:11 kados  hdl: http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/koha/installer/kohastructure.sql?root=koha&view=log
17:12 kados  hdl: will explain the error I got and why I reverted to the previous version of kohastructure.sql in CVS
19:06 slef   hi all
19:06 kados  hey slef
19:07 kados  slef++ for ideas on the kohastructure.sql
19:07 kados  :-)
19:07 slef   kados: spaces in filenames are pain
19:07 slef   kados: can we rename files to get rid of them, please?
19:07 kados  which ones?
19:08 slef   kados: or shall I silently remove them from the tarball?
19:08 kados  which files are we talking about?
19:08 slef   cd koha ; find . -name '* *'
19:08 kados  yowza
19:08 kados  it's all those images
19:08 slef   yes, mostly images
19:09 slef   and one release note
19:09 kados  and release notes
19:09 kados  I'd say we can rename those files
19:09 slef   should any directories that are in CVS not be in the tarball?
19:09 kados  hmmm
19:10 kados  koha/misc doesn't need to be
19:10 kados  koha/t either
19:10 kados  and, it appears
19:10 kados  koha/rss
19:10 slef   koha/t are tests, aren't they?
19:10 kados  yea
19:10 kados  koha/updater
19:10 slef   good to have in the tarball for "make test"
19:11 kados  yup
19:11 kados  no idea what koha/localfile is
19:11 kados  I think everything else should be OK
19:11 slef   ; cat localfile/modified_authorities/DO_NOT_REMOVE
19:11 slef   do not remove this file, used to avoid cvs deleting this directory
19:12 kados  huh
19:12 kados  weird
19:12 kados  I've no clue what that is
19:12 slef   put out an APB on koha-devel?
19:12 slef   oh wait
19:12 kados  or why it's cluttering my namespace :-)
19:12 slef   file DO_NOT_REMOVE was initially added on branch rel_2_2.
19:13 slef   adding a field useful only for CVS, to avoid deletion of empty directories. this directory is filled when modifying an authority. the merge_authority script get files here & deals with them
19:13 kados  huh
19:13 slef   ^^ paul's comments
19:13 kados  weird
19:13 kados  lets delete it
19:13 kados  /usr/tmp is a better place I think
19:13 slef   I'll exclude it from the tarball
19:13 slef   or even /var/tmp
19:13 kados  or even the db
19:13 kados  yea
19:14 slef   /usr/tmp shouldn't exist IIRC
19:14 kados  ahh, /var/tmp is what I meant then
19:15 slef   looks like default data is under misc/
19:15 slef   or have I misread that?
19:15 kados  misc/sql-datas/
19:15 kados  IIRC
19:16 kados  but that's a bad namespace I think
19:16 kados  or do you mean default data as in everything?
19:16 kados  we need to organize that better
19:16 kados  any ideas?
19:16 kados  types of data are:
19:16 kados  frameworks
19:17 slef   definitely a bad namespace... I'm confused by what to package
19:17 kados  sample bibliographic data
19:17 kados  sample authoritis data
19:17 kados  stopwords
19:17 kados  system preferences
19:17 kados  user flags
19:17 kados  sample patron data
19:18 kados  sample authorized values
19:18 kados  sample itemtypes
19:18 kados  sample borrower categories
19:18 kados  sample libraries (branch defs)
19:18 kados  sample circulation matrices
19:18 kados  namespace ideas?
19:19 slef   what are the misc/*.pl files?
19:19 kados  misc scripts that have accumulated over the years
19:19 slef   scripts not cgi-bins?
19:19 kados  command-line utilities ... basically misc is where you put all the unorganized shit
19:20 kados  right, not cgi-bins
19:21 slef   ok, I'm putting modules into the main perl module namespace
19:21 slef   cgi-bins under koha/cgi-bin/...
19:22 slef   misc scripts under koha/scripts/...
19:22 slef   what other file types need a home?
19:22 slef   presumably tmpls and sqls?
19:22 kados  hmmm
19:22 kados  sqls?
19:22 slef   the .sql files
19:23 slef   where does the web installer expect to find them?
19:23 kados  ahh
19:23 kados  atm they are in koha/misc/sql-datas
19:23 kados  but we should move them
19:23 kados  cuz that's ugly
19:23 kados  IMO
19:25 slef   so if I patch the web installer to find them wherever I put them, that's fine?
19:25 kados  yep, fine with me
19:25 kados  but I'd like to see what namespace you intend to use if that's alright
19:25 kados  lets make it right in the CVS
19:26 kados  IYKWIM
19:26 kados  like maybe a
19:26 kados  koha/data
19:26 kados  ?
19:26 slef   works for me
19:26 kados  koha/data/sql
19:26 kados  koha/data/sample_bibliographic
19:26 slef   or should they be in koha/installer?
19:26 kados  yea, maybe that
19:26 kados  I dunno
19:26 slef   Does anything other than the installer use them?
19:27 kados  no, not those specifically
19:27 kados  just the installer
19:27 kados  the koha/misc/sql-datas ones are only used by the installer
19:27 kados  so installer/data/en installer/data/fr ?
19:28 slef   sounds good
19:28 slef   do I want to install everything from koha-tmpl?
19:29 slef   koha-tmpl/errors contains CGI scripts... that's nice.
19:35 kados  weird
19:36 slef   seems I already handled that with rules I'd already written
19:36 kados  everything else looks OK
19:36 kados  why is errors in there I wonder
19:37 slef   someone taking advantage of Options ExecCGI on their server, at a guess
19:37 kados  should we relocate it as well?
19:37 slef   doesn't matter to me
19:38 slef   I call *.pl a CGI as long as it's not in misc
19:38 kados  cool
19:41 slef   dinner time here... bbi60
20:19 slef   back early
20:33 hdl    kados : localfiles stores authorities modification
20:33 hdl    misc stores overdue scripts.
20:33 hdl    and updater should be in tarball for sure.
20:34 kados  hdl: updater shouldn't be in cgi though
20:34 kados  misc is pretty dissorganized for my tasts
20:34 kados  tastes even
20:35 slef   so updater in the tarball?
20:35 kados  yep, but not in the cgi
20:35 slef   what about rss?
20:36 kados  same I think
20:37 hdl    And it is interesting.
20:37 hdl    I agree reorganizing things could be a good thing.
20:38 hdl    But should be explained on koha-devel... at least.
20:38 kados  hdl: yep
20:38 kados  hdl: good to get a plan first, then post to koha-devel for comments
20:39 hdl    remember we have two libraries running koha rel30 cvs
20:39 kados  right
20:40 slef   do they cvs up automatically? ;-)
20:40 hdl    IPT no, we do it.
20:41 hdl    neither do San WP.
20:41 hdl    If a big warning is on koha-devel.
20:41 hdl    It will be OK.
20:42 slef   why is there a koha/.htaccess ?
20:43 slef   those could go in koha-production-httpd.conf
20:43 slef   and anyway: /cgi-bin/koha/koha-tmpl/errors/400.pl ??? cgi-bin/koha/koha-tmpl!  My eyes, they burn, they burn! ;-)
20:43 slef   more seriously - I don't like koha-tmpl being put under cgi-bin
20:44 slef   hdl: are you getting gales and rainstorms too?
20:44 kados  ok, so .htaccess is probably in there for those of us that run off of CVS
20:44 kados  I'm guessing
20:45 kados  in that case, cgi-bin is symlinked directly to the koha dir
20:46 slef   so far, so good
20:46 hdl    .htacess is only redefining error pages.
20:46 hdl    to cgi-bin.
20:47 slef   ok, I'll not install it anywhere
20:47 kados  hdl++
20:47 hdl    23PM in France time to go to bed
20:47 kados  hdl: g'night, thanks for your help this evening
20:48 slef   Package does not provide a long description -  Please fill it in manually.
20:56 slef   it copies files to half-sane locations
20:56 slef   but it doesn't yet generate config files
20:56 slef   perldoc Makefile.PL
20:56 slef   if you want to see the notes
20:57 slef   damn... ytpo
21:03 kados  slef++
21:03 kados  w00t
21:04 kados  hehe
21:13 slef   any luck?
21:13 kados  I get a ton of [Thu Jul  5 14:18:49 2007] Makefile.PL: Warning: prerequisite PDF::API2 2 not found.
21:14 kados  when i do perl Makefil.PL
21:14 slef   Do you have it installed?
21:14 slef   anyway, it will work anyway... it just checks for koha's prerequisites
21:15 slef   that's so one day we can make cpan install stuff automatically
21:15 slef   and also to help the deb and rpm packaging
21:15 slef   which should be able to generate their dependencies from it
21:16 kados  gotta buy this ticket for Chris to come to the US ;-)
21:18 slef   sadist
21:18 chris  lol
21:18 slef   ;-)
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08:59 chris  hi hdl
09:09 toins  hello chris
09:09 toins  how are things in NZ ?
09:35 chris  hi toins, things are cold and rainy
09:35 chris  how are things in france?
09:36 toins  fine... we have a pretty hot summer here..
09:38 chris  we have been having tornadoes in nz over the last few days
09:39 chris  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10450116
09:40 toins  wow
09:44 chris  yep, weird weather
10:16 devin  greetings
10:18 chris  hi devin
10:20 devin  How are you chris?  I've been working on installing Koha and have a question about the 'items' table.  Could you help out?
10:22 chris  i can try :)
10:24 devin  OK.  I just imported all our MARC records, but they don't have any 'item type' or branch associated.  So I want to mass change them through MySQL.  I'm wondering if it's correct to just adjust the items table directly.
10:25 chris  hmmm
10:25 chris  if you want to be able to search on those values
10:25 chris  then they will need to be in the marc_word table also
10:26 chris  itemtype is on the biblioitems table, and branch (holdingrbanch and homebranch) are on the items table
10:27 chris  but you will want to put entries into marc_subfield_table and marc_word also
10:27 chris  it might be easier to check why it wasnt made (probably framework, or marc2koha links set up problem) and reimport them
10:28 devin  Ok, it wasn't made because they didn't have those values
10:28 chris  ahh
10:28 chris  well it might be easier to use MARCedit
10:28 chris  and add the values to the marc records then import them
10:29 devin  So I should export them all to MARC, edit them, then re-import them?
10:29 devin  Do you know any MARC editor not for windows?
10:30 chris  yep export them from whatever system you are coming from, edit them to have the info you want, then import them into Koha
10:30 chris  hmm i think you can use marcedit under mono
10:31 chris  http://oregonstate.edu/~reeset/marcedit/html/index.php
10:31 chris  but i havent tried .. i have an old windows laptop i use just for marcedit :)
10:31 chris  if you had to do it in mysql
10:31 devin  OK, thanks.  I guess I'll do that.  I was hoping it would be easier though.
10:32 chris  it wouldnt be that easy, unless the marc files are pretty small .. ie there is nothing in the marc records that isnt in the koha tables (biblio,biblioitems and items)
10:33 chris  if that was the case, then you could change biblioitems and items
10:33 chris  and run koha2marc.pl
10:33 chris  but if you had stuff in the marc records that wasnt in one of those tables, it would get wiped
10:34 devin  I think there is other information, and you're making sense.
10:34 devin  I have another question.  Is there a search that will return all items?
10:35 chris  hmm i think if you do a keyword search on %%%% you get everything, let me just check
10:36 devin  I can't get that to work
10:39 chris  ahh yep, they have stopped that
10:40 chris  nope since that hole has been plugged i dont think there is anymore ... i have one other idea
10:41 chris  ah ha
10:41 chris  go to cataloging
10:41 devin  yes
10:41 chris  adn try %%%% there in the title
10:43 chris  or just one %
10:43 chris  ah no %% or more work
10:44 devin  Well it returned a few books with %% or %%%%, but not all of them for sure.
10:44 chris  darn
10:44 chris  guess we cant anymore
10:45 jamesa hi, i have a suggestion - publication date 1900 - 2100 ?
10:45 jamesa assuming you do not have old books !
10:46 jamesa and that info is in the marc
10:46 chris  yep that would work as long as that info is there
10:46 devin  And strangly it says they are in the resovior, when I thought I had none there.  When using bulkmarcimport.pl, are the books supposed to go to the resovior?
10:47 devin  None of my books have that field
10:47 jamesa oh well
10:47 chris  hm nope devin reservior is from uploading marc, or from z3950 searchs
10:47 chris  are you running 2.2.9?
10:48 devin  2.2.8  Strange then, how there could be books there
10:49 devin  Ah, I think I know.  I tried to upload them, but it failed mysteriously.  Maybe it still uploaded a few.
10:49 jamesa phpmyadmin tells me how many rows I have in the items table if that helps
10:50 chris  ok 2 secs devin
10:51 chris  how are you at editing perl? :) if we comment out 2 lines in C4/SearchMarc.pm
10:51 chris  we should be all good
10:52 chris  around line 212 is  @$value[$i] =~ s/^%//g;
10:52 chris  if we make that #  @$value[$i] =~ s/^%//g;
10:52 chris  then line 221 (ish) is  $word =~ s/%//g unless length($word)>4;
10:52 chris  if we make that #  $word =~ s/%//g unless length($word)>4;
10:53 chris  then searching on % in the keyword should get us everything
10:53 devin  Let me try
10:54 chris  (me was looking at the 2.2.9 file so the line numbers might be a little out)
10:58 devin  no luck
10:58 devin  I mean it is the same as before
10:58 chris  dang
10:59 chris  ahh one more line
10:59 chris  246
10:59 chris    $word =~ s/%//g unless length($word)>4;
10:59 chris  again
10:59 chris  #  $word =~ s/%//g unless length($word)>4;
11:01 devin  Thanks that does the trick.  %% now returns all books.  % still returns nothing
11:01 chris  actually i think if we uncomment that
11:01 chris  then %%%%%% should work
11:02 chris  cos that code says remove the first % making it %%%%% .. then if its not greater than 4 remove the other %'s
11:02 chris  so as long as we have 6 or more it should get all things (% is the wildcard in mysql)
11:03 devin  Yes, how unnessesary.  I don't want to have to ever explain that to my users.  But I just want it working now for cataloging, to make sure I don't miss anything
11:03 devin  So are you a Koha developer?
11:04 chris  well searching on everything is a nightmare for big libraries
11:04 chris  you dont want 10 ppl doing that on your opacs at once
11:04 chris  when you anything over 100k titles
11:04 devin  Well, since you only return the first 10 or 50 records, it shouldn't be so bad
11:05 chris  still has to find them all
11:05 chris  specially if its a title search
11:05 devin  That's the bug then.  Searching on everything is too useful to forgo
11:05 chris  so it can order them by title
11:05 chris  no way you can order them unless you see them all
11:06 devin  how about with a mysql index?
11:06 chris  searching on everything is fine for the librarians
11:06 chris  it uses indexes
11:06 chris  but its still has to sort everything
11:07 devin  But the index is already sorted
11:07 chris  yes, but you return all the rows, not just the index
11:08 chris  and it has to join them with the other tables to find things like callnumber, and branch
11:09 devin  Yes, but since there is already a sorted index for title, it simply loads those first 20 rows, then joins them.  It shouldn't take more resources then other sources.  There is no reason to look at the other rows
11:10 chris  that might be true if you only ever look at 245a
11:10 chris  for title
11:11 chris  but koha allows you to define what you want title to search, so it can search subtitles and unititles as well
11:11 chris  unless you simply did select * from biblio order by title .. it cant make good use of the index for sorting
11:11 devin  Anyway, probably however Koha does it, it's slow.  So I can understand blocking it.  But like you just explained, using %%%%%%% will search everything anyway
11:12 chris  super fast in 3.0 and zoom, slower in 2.2.x
11:13 chris  more flexibility = slower, its the tradeoff
11:14 chris  but with the zebra backend we get a ton more flexibility and lots faster search too
11:14 devin  So when using zebra does it use MySQL at all?
11:14 chris  yep just not for bibliographical data
11:14 chris  still uses it for transactions
11:14 chris  and patron data
11:15 devin  OK, well I look forward to it.
11:15 devin  BRB
11:16 chris  or yep as jamesa said you can do a select * from biblio in phpmyadim :) or from the mysql commmandline
11:22 chris  but now i have to go to sleep
11:22 jamesa cul
11:23 _devin goodnight