Time  Nick         Message
00:59 kados        hi paul__
22:00 chris        night
22:00 martinmorris off to bed, night! :)
22:00 martinmorris bug id 1370
21:54 chris        cool
21:54 martinmorris doing so now, ta
21:53 chris        bug is the best way to get lots of eyes on it, so even if it is a setup, they should be able to tell ya what is wrong
21:52 martinmorris wondering if i've set it up wrong, i'm fairly confidentish i haven't
21:52 martinmorris yeah, that's not happening either
21:52 chris        thats what id expect
21:51 martinmorris as a separate point, if my name authority has a 100 entry and a 400 entry, and i link it to a biblio, that biblio should be found whether i search for it through the 100 or 400 name, right?
21:51 chris        that way it will keep showing up in ppls bug lists and get fixed fast :)
21:50 martinmorris i think i might
21:50 chris        and write down what you did
21:50 chris        hmm, id report it as a bug
21:49 martinmorris there's nothing obvious in bugzila
21:48 martinmorris well, that's what I thought
21:48 chris        hmm that seems wrong
21:48 martinmorris it might be a simpler question - i'm just noticing that when i edit a biblio and link it to a name authority i've added - i then search for the name authority and it says it's used in 0 biblios
21:47 chris        well im not him :)
21:47 martinmorris evening all - i was asking an authorities question last night and the expert wasn't here - just wondering if he is tonight?
21:39 chris        morning
19:35 kados        afternoon saorge
19:19 kados        interesting
19:19 owen         Nope, doesn't work that way for us.
19:17 owen         Not in my experience.
19:16 kados        the normal return process should already do that
19:16 owen         Yes
19:16 kados        take the status off when the book's returned??
19:16 kados        what's the reverse?
19:16 owen         Maybe borrower notes as well
19:15 owen         You'd have to check for outstanding fines at the very least.
19:14 kados        but it has to be set up in the crontab
19:14 kados        it's distributed
19:09 owen         kados: the process by which patrons are set as debarred--is that a custom script NPL is running? Or is that distributed with Koha?
18:48 kados        wtf?
18:48 kados        defaultvalue isn't even in paul's database def
18:48 kados        huh
18:47 kados        every marc21 framework
18:47 kados        we have to add defaultvalue to every sql file I think
18:46 kados        oh man
18:41 ryan         but...
18:41 kados        our kohastructure.sql should have everything needed
18:41 kados        shouldn't have to do that with the installer
18:41 ryan         installer should have run it, eh?
18:41 kados        huh
18:41 ryan         missed updatedatabase.
18:40 kados        probably the reason my marc editor isn't working
18:40 kados        defaultvalue
18:40 kados        I guess that's something new
18:40 kados        [Tue Jul 03 11:39:19 2007] [error] [client] DBD::mysql::st fetchrow failed: fetch() without execute() at /koha/production/intranet/modules/C4/Biblio.pm line 1477., referer: http://aragorn.metavore.com/cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/addbooks.pl
18:40 kados        [Tue Jul 03 11:39:19 2007] [error] [client] DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Unknown column 'defaultvalue' in 'field list' at /koha/production/intranet/modules/C4/Biblio.pm line 1464., referer: http://aragorn.metavore.com/cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/addbooks.pl
18:40 kados        ryan: still around?
17:44 kados        in the install package it'll be laid out more sanely
17:44 kados        it's not the best place
17:44 kados        yea
17:44 jaron        ok, misc. wouldn't have thought to look there right away. thanks.
17:43 kados        prolly a good place to start
17:43 kados        http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/koha/misc/zebra/?root=koha
17:42 jaron        I'm working my way through the docs now
17:42 kados        so be warned
17:42 kados        zebra configuration is heady stuff
17:42 jaron        that'll be a start
17:41 kados        I can point you to the ones we use
17:41 kados        well, there are, but not globally for the project
17:41 kados        I don't think there are authoritative ones
17:41 kados        good question
17:41 kados        hehe
17:40 jaron        where would I find the zebra config files that koha 3.0 uses?
17:10 owen         I suspect so. I think we used "Restricted" before, which is probably better
17:09 kados        shouldn't it just be 'Frozen' or somehing?
17:09 kados        owen: that's uncommon too, right?
17:09 kados        owen: debarred?
17:05 kados        No. of times checked out?
17:05 kados        No. of Issues
17:03 kados        don't think I populated it in this install
17:03 kados        list of authorized values
17:03 kados        street, place, road, etc.
17:03 owen         Yeah, I think last borrwoer is appropriate
17:02 kados        last patron doesn't make quite as much sense
17:02 kados        ?
17:02 kados        I think Last Borrower is an appropriate use of the term, right/
16:59 jaron        I don't know about the intranet but the 'my account' part of the opac presents the user with their Checkouts
16:57 kados        owen: wrote down calendar thingy
16:57 kados        jaron: yea, well voyager says Charge Out and Charge In
16:57 owen         "Check Out" doesn't sound awkward when it's an action, but it sounds weird as a noun.
16:56 owen         jaron: are there places where unicorn refers to "checkouts"
16:56 jaron        while I think their Discharging is a weird word.
16:56 owen         We should use the calendar picker on the issues screen instead of those drop-downs for 'specify due date'
16:56 kados        that works
16:56 kados        sweet, thanks jaron
16:55 jaron        CheckOut is what unicorn uses for that task in the intranet
16:55 kados        I'll do checkouts
16:55 kados        yea
16:55 owen         I wish I could see what other ILSes use
16:54 owen         Yeah, it is. I'm not sure what the right choice is.
16:54 kados        awkward even
16:54 kados        it's awkard
16:54 kados        so issues -> checkouts?
16:53 kados        Define circulation rules in a matrix for libraries / patrons / itemtypes (number of XXX, ...)
16:53 kados        Define issuing rules in a matrix for libraries / patrons / item types (number of issues, duration, cost...).
16:53 owen         What's the context?
16:52 kados        checked out?
16:52 kados        check-outs?
16:52 kados        checkouts?
16:52 kados        so do you say
16:52 kados        I'm doing a template cleanup right now
16:51 owen         Looks like we've lost the link to issues from the borrower detail screen
16:49 owen         Then, "Overdues" :)
16:49 kados        lateissues.pl
16:49 kados        this is a report you can run to see who has overdues I guess
16:48 owen         That's awkward, because we would say "What do I have checked out," but "Check-outs" is no good.
16:48 kados        jaron: good point
16:47 kados        owen: how would you describe 'outstanding issues' report?
16:47 jaron        if it's going to be multistep, say something like (step 1 of 3)?
16:47 owen         yes
16:47 kados        owen: did you used to use 'check out' instead of issues?
16:47 kados        owen: I've got a language question for ya
16:46 owen         It doesn't look like you can change the borrower type after the patron has been added. I don't see how to change a "professional" to something else.
16:44 kados        yea
16:44 owen         More than one guarantor?
16:44 kados        cuz a lot of them do :-)
16:44 kados        is the ability for a child to have more than one parent
16:44 kados        one thing we have to add
16:44 kados        s/ne/new/
16:43 kados        owen: you can define ne patron categories and assign them to one of the four main types
16:43 kados        http://aragorn.metavore.com/cgi-bin/koha/admin/categorie.pl
16:43 kados        sec
16:43 kados        but there's another level too
16:43 kados        yea, that's part of it
16:42 owen         Do you mean the borrower types, adult child professional?
16:42 kados        :-)
16:42 kados        with like 128MB of ram
16:42 kados        btw: it's super slow because this is running on a virtual private server
16:42 jaron        owen: it's difficult to see.
16:42 kados        yea, look at the top
16:42 jaron        look towards the top.
16:42 kados        (soon to be called Patrons)
16:41 kados        owen: click on Borrowers
16:41 owen         kados, what do you mean by types of patrons?
16:41 jaron        at least
16:41 kados        so two bugs there
16:41 kados        and it still lists biblios in reservoir as none
16:40 kados        how is that possible?
16:40 kados        297 in the reservoir already?
16:40 kados        # 340 records parsed
16:40 kados        # 0 not imported because they seem not to be in MARC format (or ISBN/ISSN missing) !
16:40 kados        # 297 not imported because already in the reservoir
16:40 kados        # 0 not imported because already in catalog
16:40 kados        # 43 imported records
16:40 kados        owen: try out the types of patrons, that part is pretty cool
16:39 kados        no-one is willing to re-write it :-)
16:39 kados        owen: it's a blocker :-)
16:39 kados        owen: that's on the bug list
16:38 kados        owen: yes, unfortunately
16:38 kados        having catalog and cataloging so close togehter is confusing
16:38 owen         kados, borrower add is still a multi-step process?
16:38 kados        I'm also thinking of changing 'cataloging' to 'technical services'
16:37 kados        I'll see
16:37 jaron        do you have some you could import into the reservoir?
16:35 kados        hehe, yea
16:35 jaron        and difficult to get them in there without a marc editor :/
16:35 kados        don't think there are any yet
16:35 jaron        do you know of a record already in the database? my standby searches got no results.
16:34 kados        I know how to fix that one
16:34 kados        hehe
16:34 jaron        I tried to export the records so I could then search for a known record in the database and instead of exporting is sends me export.pl
16:31 kados        looks like the frameworks are OK
16:31 kados        where's toins when you need him :-)
16:30 kados        so that's well buggy :-)
16:30 kados        yep
16:29 jaron        I don't see anything come up when I try to catalog a record. no fields to fill in.
16:29 kados        yea, when I add a new MARC record I get a blank page
16:29 kados        but that's secondary :-)
16:29 kados        looks like the css is messed up in some places too
16:29 jaron        that's where I was.
16:29 kados        probably cataloging
16:27 jaron        any particular sections that need testing?
16:26 kados        kohaadmin / PASSWORD
16:26 kados        in case anyone wants to test koha 3.0 with me
16:26 kados        http://aragorn.metavore.com
15:56 kados        ok, I'll commit that change
15:56 kados        bingo
15:55 ryan         which is nonsensical anyway since it has no tag_to_report
15:54 ryan         that will allow to remove the auth_type ''
15:53 ryan         kados: FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS
15:52 paul         ryan : i have tested the english version.
15:52 ryan         set foreign_key_check = 0
15:52 kados        maybe the en way of defining authorities is wrong?
15:52 kados        paul: any ideas?
15:52 ryan         (paul?)
15:52 ryan         i don't know why they don't get that error.
15:52 kados        what was the syntax again?
15:52 ryan         fr/ version doesn't define any auth_types...
15:51 ryan         just auth_tag_struct ?
15:51 kados        do we need to add that line to every sql file?
15:51 ryan         because there shouldn't be an auth_type of ''.
15:51 kados        I tried that yesterday , couldn't get it to work
15:51 ryan         just do the skip-foreign-key-checks
15:50 kados        ryan: what's the solution then?
15:50 kados        redirect works now
15:50 ryan         kados: i think we should forget about the ordering.
15:50 kados        otherwise it works
15:50 kados        otherwise it gives an error
15:50 kados        then do the rest
15:50 kados        so you have to first do auth_type
15:49 kados        so the order is still causing the constraint prob
15:49 kados        ok
15:48 kados        I have it in the <config> directive
15:48 kados        <kohaversion>3.0</kohaversion>
15:48 kados        that's waht I meant
15:48 kados        yea
15:47 paul         kados : it's <kohaversion>
15:45 paul         (but I should update my wiki page, where there is a sample koha.xml)
15:45 kados        ahh
15:45 paul         there is no koha.xml in head, unless i'm mistaken
15:45 kados        paul: did you also commit <versionumber> to koha.xml in head?
15:41 kados        imo www-data user shouldnt have write access
15:41 paul         read my mail ;-)
15:41 kados        paul: does it write to koha.xml too?
15:40 kados        right
15:40 paul         if they are not the same => update needed !
15:40 paul         in koha.xml => it defines the version of the software
15:40 ryan         ah, yes, better in koha.xml, i think
15:40 paul         in systempref => it defines the version of the database
15:40 kados        ok
15:40 paul         (read my commit & my mail to koha-devel)
15:40 kados        but not in koha.xml
15:40 kados        I have it in systempreferences
15:39 paul         do you have <kohaversion> in koha.xml ?
15:39 kados        paul: so one problem fixed, but not the one you committed :/
15:39 kados        still loops me back to the installer
15:38 kados        click finish
15:38 kados        that worked too!
15:38 kados        s
15:38 kados        go back, select the other
15:38 kados        wow, that time it worked!
15:37 kados        so I just select 01_auth_types, everything else is unchecked
15:37 kados        everything's out of order
15:37 kados        o I click on install base configuration
15:37 kados        Now we're ready to do some basic configuration. Please install basic configuration settings to continue the installation.
15:37 kados        Step 3 Create tables OK
15:36 kados        step 2 OK
15:36 kados        step 1 OK
15:36 kados        now it finds the installer
15:36 kados        set perms on kohaadmin
15:36 kados        create database koha
15:35 kados        drop database koha
15:35 kados        cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha
15:35 ryan         well, wrong tree to bark up, i guess
15:35 kados        confirm apache can't find koha
15:35 kados        ok, rm -rf koha
15:35 ryan         hmm
15:35 kados        so it should be pruned already
15:34 kados        cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha
15:34 kados        to check out I do:
15:34 ryan         better, rm -rf english/
15:34 ryan         no sql in french/ before
15:34 ryan         i had sql and txt prior to prune
15:34 kados        just .txt and .readme
15:33 kados        no i don't have .sql
15:33 kados        wait
15:33 kados        even after that command
15:33 kados        yes
15:33 ryan         (do you have english/*.sql ?)
15:33 ryan         and the extra sql in english will go away
15:33 kados        it still redirects back to the installer
15:32 ryan         do a cvs update -dP
15:32 kados        huh
15:32 ryan         maybe it's doing both en and english?
15:31 kados        this is really strange
15:31 kados        ryan: why would mine load twice, but not paul's?
15:31 paul         back on thusday
15:31 paul         nop, he is teaching Koha
15:31 kados        ryan: loading the sql twice?
15:31 kados        I want to confirm it's OK to delete english and french
15:30 kados        is hdl present?
15:30 kados        (same for fr french it seems)
15:30 kados        why do we have two?
15:30 kados        paul: does it use the en dir or the english dir?
15:27 ryan         it must be loading the sql twice
15:25 paul         ryan : I tried with english, not with french :-(
15:17 ryan         well, in fr/ , there's no auth_types
15:12 kados        brb
15:12 kados        coffee break
15:12 kados        arrrg
15:11 kados        and we're both running off of a CVS repo
15:11 kados        I don't understand what else could be happening, because I have the same kohastructure as paul
15:11 kados        before the frameworks themselves are loaded
15:11 kados        I suspect the installer is populating the authorities frameworks
15:10 kados        ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 2: Duplicate entry '' for key 1
15:10 kados        ryan: if I just do auth_types.sql I get this error:
15:02 kados        "sql-datas dir, pick a naming convention, remove the rest"
15:02 kados        paul: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1369
15:02 kados        paul: did you see this error, I wonder if it's related:
15:01 kados        ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 2: Duplicate entry '' for key 1
15:01 kados        # 01_auth_types.sql
15:01 kados        ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 1: Duplicate entry '010-a' for key 1
15:01 kados        # 02_authorities_normal_marc21.sql
15:01 kados        ryan: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1368
14:17 sanspach     I totally understand that there could be issues with database stuff; but I think report output should be safe
14:17 kados        paul: just to avoid any legal problems with proprietary vendors
14:17 kados        sanspach: *nod*
14:16 paul         DMCA ?
14:16 sanspach     I plan to parse report output, not database structures, so I don't think there can be anything proprietary there
14:16 paul         why ?
14:16 kados        I have been advised by my attorney not to distribute any migration tools
14:15 paul         but you shold name the system, we may already have some tools on our disks...
14:15 kados        especially if it reverse engineers the proprietary data structures
14:15 kados        about distributing that
14:15 kados        but you have to be careful there
14:15 kados        potentially yes
14:14 sanspach     from that un-named system into Koha?
14:14 sanspach     kados: I could do this as a one-time thing, but would it be more useful to do something that could be re-used for future migrations?
14:10 sanspach     but their bibs can't be complicated and there are other, more flexible ways to get flat ascii, with both their bibs and items
14:10 sanspach     I don't know why they can't get their MARC export functionality to work (and unfortunately I've never worked with a Windows server)
14:09 kados        contact sales@liblime.com for a quote on that ;-)
14:09 kados        sure
14:09 sanspach     :)
14:09 sanspach     kados: so how about I help HCST get both bib and item data out in a flat ascii format and you pre-parse it to get it into Koha-compatible format?
14:07 kados        using MARC::Record probably
14:07 kados        I'd write something to pre-parse that data and put it into the MARC :-)
14:07 sanspach     but I thought if there were a way to get other, non-bib data into Koha, that it would be better to go a different route
14:06 sanspach     they can't get them to export :(  I'm working on that separately, trying to figure out why their old system won't export the records
14:06 jaron        what problems are they having with their MARC records?
13:58 sanspach     I'd rather get the data out in a different way and include their copy data in it, but only if there's a viable way to import into Koha
13:58 sanspach     bibliographic records can be exported in MARC, but they're having problems with that
13:57 jaron        sanspach: What kinds of records do they currently have?
13:55 sanspach     or do they just have to re-enter a lot of that after loading their bibliographic records?
13:55 sanspach     is there a good way to bring in call numbers, item barcodes and all the stuff that's not normally stored in the MARC record?
13:55 sanspach     they're thinking MARC for the bibliographic records, but that will probably lose a lot
13:54 sanspach     and I'm trying to help them with data
13:54 sanspach     I know of a site trying to move from another system (the one I work with in my real job) to Koha
13:53 paul         sanspach: throw your question...
13:53 paul         jaron: (was joking about crazy americans. The crazy guys are the frenchies...)
13:50 sanspach     can I ask a quick Koha migration question?
13:45 paul         (of course, when you have public taxes, there is a delay, and being 1 day late means +10% ...)
13:45 paul         :-\
13:44 paul         a single ? you're a crazy american aren't you ? In france, to pay a 2600€ quote, you need at least 4 persons to validate the quote, check that you have the money, check that you had a contract, check that the amount is the same as expected, send the quote to public accountant, that will re-check again. then send the file to the bank.
13:43 jaron        they don't have a single person on the job that can take care of something like making sure someone gets paid what's due them?
13:42 paul         yep. 2 months "disappear" for business in france...
13:42 jaron        september?
13:41 paul         10mn later, phone ring : "we have recieved your invoice, just want to inform that you won't be paid before september, because of holidays"
13:40 paul         how summer works in france :
12:55 jaron        kados: did you give those plone permissions to jronallo?
12:53 kados        heh
12:52 paul         (just forgot to change my nick)
12:52 jaron        paul can sleep and work at the same time? amazing.
12:51 kados        paul: I can bug you about the web installer (pun intended) :)
12:51 kados        paul: great! :-)
12:51 kados        hi paul_sleep
12:51 kados        I see portal settings
12:51 kados        don't see site setup
12:51 jaron        I see.
12:51 kados        faqlater is a separate product I just installed
12:50 kados        documentation/faq ships with the help center product
12:50 jaron        there's a 'site setup' box off to the left
12:50 jaron        if you look under 'preferences'?
12:50 kados        the other one should be present
12:50 jaron        if the other isn't present yet then my guess is that would be under plone configuration
12:49 jaron        I was just looking at the faq under documentation.
12:49 kados        or the new faq product?
12:48 kados        you mean the default faq?
12:48 kados        I can do that for ya
12:48 kados        ahh
12:47 jaron        when I go to 'preferences' on the left side there's 'site setup' and I should have the option under Add-on Product Configuration to change a setting for how the FAQ works.
12:36 kados        yup
12:36 jaron        signed up as jronallo
12:34 kados        cool, so now you can add a 'faq section' as one of the types
12:32 kados        FAQLater installed
12:30 jaron        brb
12:29 jaron        sections menu, view section in full, view entire faq in full, click on individual question
12:28 jaron        This looks like a good organization scheme too: http://plone.org/documentation/faq
12:26 kados        looks pretty cool
12:26 kados        http://plone.org/products/faqulator/?searchterm=FAQ
12:24 jaron        under documentation
12:24 jaron        yes, now I see
12:23 kados2       you can play around with plone
12:23 kados2       if you sign up at http://new.koha.org:8080/koha
12:23 kados2       anyway
12:23 kados2       my IRC client is stalled
12:23 jaron        brb
12:23 kados        I'll give you you can start writing stuff
12:23 kados        9(click on 'join)
12:23 jaron        I don't see a registration page or anything there.
12:21 kados        if you sign up at new.koha.org:8080
12:21 kados        hehe
12:21 jaron        so I suppose I'm one step closer to just doing it
12:21 kados        sweet
12:21 jaron        yeah, I've started tagging messages koha_faq
12:20 kados        that thread would make an excellent FAQ
12:20 jaron        just read it.
12:20 kados        titled 'change password'
12:20 kados        jaron: for an idea of what a FAQ Manager would do, see that message from Rick Welykochy et al?
12:20 jaron        good morning
12:20 kados        morning jaron
12:12 kados        hdl: ?
12:12 kados        paul_sleep: ?
12:12 kados        anyone around yet?