Time Nick Message 12:12 kados anyone around yet? 12:12 kados paul_sleep: ? 12:12 kados hdl: ? 12:20 kados morning jaron 12:20 jaron good morning 12:20 kados jaron: for an idea of what a FAQ Manager would do, see that message from Rick Welykochy et al? 12:20 kados titled 'change password' 12:20 jaron just read it. 12:20 kados that thread would make an excellent FAQ 12:21 jaron yeah, I've started tagging messages koha_faq 12:21 kados sweet 12:21 jaron so I suppose I'm one step closer to just doing it 12:21 kados hehe 12:21 kados if you sign up at new.koha.org:8080 12:23 jaron I don't see a registration page or anything there. 12:23 kados 9(click on 'join) 12:23 kados I'll give you you can start writing stuff 12:23 jaron brb 12:23 kados2 my IRC client is stalled 12:23 kados2 anyway 12:23 kados2 if you sign up at http://new.koha.org:8080/koha 12:23 kados2 you can play around with plone 12:24 jaron yes, now I see 12:24 jaron under documentation 12:26 kados http://plone.org/products/faqulator/?searchterm=FAQ 12:26 kados looks pretty cool 12:28 jaron This looks like a good organization scheme too: http://plone.org/documentation/faq 12:29 jaron sections menu, view section in full, view entire faq in full, click on individual question 12:30 jaron brb 12:32 kados FAQLater installed 12:34 kados cool, so now you can add a 'faq section' as one of the types 12:36 jaron signed up as jronallo 12:36 kados yup 12:47 jaron when I go to 'preferences' on the left side there's 'site setup' and I should have the option under Add-on Product Configuration to change a setting for how the FAQ works. 12:48 kados ahh 12:48 kados I can do that for ya 12:48 kados you mean the default faq? 12:49 kados or the new faq product? 12:49 jaron I was just looking at the faq under documentation. 12:50 jaron if the other isn't present yet then my guess is that would be under plone configuration 12:50 kados the other one should be present 12:50 jaron if you look under 'preferences'? 12:50 jaron there's a 'site setup' box off to the left 12:50 kados documentation/faq ships with the help center product 12:51 kados faqlater is a separate product I just installed 12:51 jaron I see. 12:51 kados don't see site setup 12:51 kados I see portal settings 12:51 kados hi paul_sleep 12:51 kados paul: great! :-) 12:51 kados paul: I can bug you about the web installer (pun intended) :) 12:52 jaron paul can sleep and work at the same time? amazing. 12:52 paul (just forgot to change my nick) 12:53 kados heh 12:55 jaron kados: did you give those plone permissions to jronallo? 13:40 paul how summer works in france : 13:41 paul 10mn later, phone ring : "we have recieved your invoice, just want to inform that you won't be paid before september, because of holidays" 13:42 jaron september? 13:42 paul yep. 2 months "disappear" for business in france... 13:43 jaron they don't have a single person on the job that can take care of something like making sure someone gets paid what's due them? 13:44 paul a single ? you're a crazy american aren't you ? In france, to pay a 2600€ quote, you need at least 4 persons to validate the quote, check that you have the money, check that you had a contract, check that the amount is the same as expected, send the quote to public accountant, that will re-check again. then send the file to the bank. 13:45 paul :-\ 13:45 paul (of course, when you have public taxes, there is a delay, and being 1 day late means +10% ...) 13:50 sanspach can I ask a quick Koha migration question? 13:53 paul jaron: (was joking about crazy americans. The crazy guys are the frenchies...) 13:53 paul sanspach: throw your question... 13:54 sanspach I know of a site trying to move from another system (the one I work with in my real job) to Koha 13:54 sanspach and I'm trying to help them with data 13:55 sanspach they're thinking MARC for the bibliographic records, but that will probably lose a lot 13:55 sanspach is there a good way to bring in call numbers, item barcodes and all the stuff that's not normally stored in the MARC record? 13:55 sanspach or do they just have to re-enter a lot of that after loading their bibliographic records? 13:57 jaron sanspach: What kinds of records do they currently have? 13:58 sanspach bibliographic records can be exported in MARC, but they're having problems with that 13:58 sanspach I'd rather get the data out in a different way and include their copy data in it, but only if there's a viable way to import into Koha 14:06 jaron what problems are they having with their MARC records? 14:06 sanspach they can't get them to export :( I'm working on that separately, trying to figure out why their old system won't export the records 14:07 sanspach but I thought if there were a way to get other, non-bib data into Koha, that it would be better to go a different route 14:07 kados I'd write something to pre-parse that data and put it into the MARC :-) 14:07 kados using MARC::Record probably 14:09 sanspach kados: so how about I help HCST get both bib and item data out in a flat ascii format and you pre-parse it to get it into Koha-compatible format? 14:09 sanspach :) 14:09 kados sure 14:09 kados contact sales@liblime.com for a quote on that ;-) 14:10 sanspach I don't know why they can't get their MARC export functionality to work (and unfortunately I've never worked with a Windows server) 14:10 sanspach but their bibs can't be complicated and there are other, more flexible ways to get flat ascii, with both their bibs and items 14:14 sanspach kados: I could do this as a one-time thing, but would it be more useful to do something that could be re-used for future migrations? 14:14 sanspach from that un-named system into Koha? 14:15 kados potentially yes 14:15 kados but you have to be careful there 14:15 kados about distributing that 14:15 kados especially if it reverse engineers the proprietary data structures 14:15 paul but you shold name the system, we may already have some tools on our disks... 14:16 kados I have been advised by my attorney not to distribute any migration tools 14:16 paul why ? 14:16 sanspach I plan to parse report output, not database structures, so I don't think there can be anything proprietary there 14:16 paul DMCA ? 14:17 kados sanspach: *nod* 14:17 kados paul: just to avoid any legal problems with proprietary vendors 14:17 sanspach I totally understand that there could be issues with database stuff; but I think report output should be safe 15:01 kados ryan: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1368 15:01 kados # 02_authorities_normal_marc21.sql 15:01 kados ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 1: Duplicate entry '010-a' for key 1 15:01 kados # 01_auth_types.sql 15:01 kados ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 2: Duplicate entry '' for key 1 15:02 kados paul: did you see this error, I wonder if it's related: 15:02 kados paul: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1369 15:02 kados "sql-datas dir, pick a naming convention, remove the rest" 15:10 kados ryan: if I just do auth_types.sql I get this error: 15:10 kados ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 2: Duplicate entry '' for key 1 15:11 kados I suspect the installer is populating the authorities frameworks 15:11 kados before the frameworks themselves are loaded 15:11 kados I don't understand what else could be happening, because I have the same kohastructure as paul 15:11 kados and we're both running off of a CVS repo 15:12 kados arrrg 15:12 kados coffee break 15:12 kados brb 15:17 ryan well, in fr/ , there's no auth_types 15:25 paul ryan : I tried with english, not with french :-( 15:27 ryan it must be loading the sql twice 15:30 kados paul: does it use the en dir or the english dir? 15:30 kados why do we have two? 15:30 kados (same for fr french it seems) 15:30 kados is hdl present? 15:31 kados I want to confirm it's OK to delete english and french 15:31 kados ryan: loading the sql twice? 15:31 paul nop, he is teaching Koha 15:31 paul back on thusday 15:31 kados ryan: why would mine load twice, but not paul's? 15:31 kados this is really strange 15:32 ryan maybe it's doing both en and english? 15:32 kados huh 15:32 ryan do a cvs update -dP 15:33 kados it still redirects back to the installer 15:33 ryan and the extra sql in english will go away 15:33 ryan (do you have english/*.sql ?) 15:33 kados yes 15:33 kados even after that command 15:33 kados wait 15:33 kados no i don't have .sql 15:34 kados just .txt and .readme 15:34 ryan i had sql and txt prior to prune 15:34 ryan no sql in french/ before 15:34 ryan better, rm -rf english/ 15:34 kados to check out I do: 15:34 kados cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha 15:35 kados so it should be pruned already 15:35 ryan hmm 15:35 kados ok, rm -rf koha 15:35 kados confirm apache can't find koha 15:35 ryan well, wrong tree to bark up, i guess 15:35 kados cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha 15:35 kados drop database koha 15:36 kados create database koha 15:36 kados set perms on kohaadmin 15:36 kados now it finds the installer 15:36 kados step 1 OK 15:36 kados step 2 OK 15:37 kados Step 3 Create tables OK 15:37 kados Now we're ready to do some basic configuration. Please install basic configuration settings to continue the installation. 15:37 kados o I click on install base configuration 15:37 kados everything's out of order 15:37 kados so I just select 01_auth_types, everything else is unchecked 15:38 kados wow, that time it worked! 15:38 kados go back, select the other 15:38 kados s 15:38 kados that worked too! 15:38 kados click finish 15:39 kados still loops me back to the installer 15:39 kados paul: so one problem fixed, but not the one you committed :/ 15:39 paul do you have <kohaversion> in koha.xml ? 15:40 kados I have it in systempreferences 15:40 kados but not in koha.xml 15:40 paul (read my commit & my mail to koha-devel) 15:40 kados ok 15:40 paul in systempref => it defines the version of the database 15:40 ryan ah, yes, better in koha.xml, i think 15:40 paul in koha.xml => it defines the version of the software 15:40 paul if they are not the same => update needed ! 15:40 kados right 15:41 kados paul: does it write to koha.xml too? 15:41 paul read my mail ;-) 15:41 kados imo www-data user shouldnt have write access 15:45 kados paul: did you also commit <versionumber> to koha.xml in head? 15:45 paul there is no koha.xml in head, unless i'm mistaken 15:45 kados ahh 15:45 paul (but I should update my wiki page, where there is a sample koha.xml) 15:47 paul kados : it's <kohaversion> 15:48 kados yea 15:48 kados that's waht I meant 15:48 kados <kohaversion>3.0</kohaversion> 15:48 kados I have it in the <config> directive 15:49 kados ok 15:49 kados so the order is still causing the constraint prob 15:50 kados so you have to first do auth_type 15:50 kados then do the rest 15:50 kados otherwise it gives an error 15:50 kados otherwise it works 15:50 ryan kados: i think we should forget about the ordering. 15:50 kados redirect works now 15:50 kados ryan: what's the solution then? 15:51 ryan just do the skip-foreign-key-checks 15:51 kados I tried that yesterday , couldn't get it to work 15:51 ryan because there shouldn't be an auth_type of ''. 15:51 kados do we need to add that line to every sql file? 15:51 ryan just auth_tag_struct ? 15:52 ryan fr/ version doesn't define any auth_types... 15:52 kados what was the syntax again? 15:52 ryan i don't know why they don't get that error. 15:52 ryan (paul?) 15:52 kados paul: any ideas? 15:52 kados maybe the en way of defining authorities is wrong? 15:52 ryan set foreign_key_check = 0 15:52 paul ryan : i have tested the english version. 15:53 ryan kados: FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS 15:54 ryan that will allow to remove the auth_type '' 15:55 ryan which is nonsensical anyway since it has no tag_to_report 15:56 kados bingo 15:56 kados ok, I'll commit that change 16:26 kados http://aragorn.metavore.com 16:26 kados in case anyone wants to test koha 3.0 with me 16:26 kados kohaadmin / PASSWORD 16:27 jaron any particular sections that need testing? 16:29 kados probably cataloging 16:29 jaron that's where I was. 16:29 kados looks like the css is messed up in some places too 16:29 kados but that's secondary :-) 16:29 kados yea, when I add a new MARC record I get a blank page 16:29 jaron I don't see anything come up when I try to catalog a record. no fields to fill in. 16:30 kados yep 16:30 kados so that's well buggy :-) 16:31 kados where's toins when you need him :-) 16:31 kados looks like the frameworks are OK 16:34 jaron I tried to export the records so I could then search for a known record in the database and instead of exporting is sends me export.pl 16:34 kados hehe 16:34 kados I know how to fix that one 16:35 jaron do you know of a record already in the database? my standby searches got no results. 16:35 kados don't think there are any yet 16:35 jaron and difficult to get them in there without a marc editor :/ 16:35 kados hehe, yea 16:37 jaron do you have some you could import into the reservoir? 16:37 kados I'll see 16:38 kados I'm also thinking of changing 'cataloging' to 'technical services' 16:38 owen kados, borrower add is still a multi-step process? 16:38 kados having catalog and cataloging so close togehter is confusing 16:38 kados owen: yes, unfortunately 16:39 kados owen: that's on the bug list 16:39 kados owen: it's a blocker :-) 16:39 kados no-one is willing to re-write it :-) 16:40 kados owen: try out the types of patrons, that part is pretty cool 16:40 kados # 43 imported records 16:40 kados # 0 not imported because already in catalog 16:40 kados # 297 not imported because already in the reservoir 16:40 kados # 0 not imported because they seem not to be in MARC format (or ISBN/ISSN missing) ! 16:40 kados # 340 records parsed 16:40 kados 297 in the reservoir already? 16:40 kados how is that possible? 16:41 kados and it still lists biblios in reservoir as none 16:41 kados so two bugs there 16:41 jaron at least 16:41 owen kados, what do you mean by types of patrons? 16:41 kados owen: click on Borrowers 16:42 kados (soon to be called Patrons) 16:42 jaron look towards the top. 16:42 kados yea, look at the top 16:42 jaron owen: it's difficult to see. 16:42 kados btw: it's super slow because this is running on a virtual private server 16:42 kados with like 128MB of ram 16:42 kados :-) 16:42 owen Do you mean the borrower types, adult child professional? 16:43 kados yea, that's part of it 16:43 kados but there's another level too 16:43 kados sec 16:43 kados http://aragorn.metavore.com/cgi-bin/koha/admin/categorie.pl 16:43 kados owen: you can define ne patron categories and assign them to one of the four main types 16:44 kados s/ne/new/ 16:44 kados one thing we have to add 16:44 kados is the ability for a child to have more than one parent 16:44 kados cuz a lot of them do :-) 16:44 owen More than one guarantor? 16:44 kados yea 16:46 owen It doesn't look like you can change the borrower type after the patron has been added. I don't see how to change a "professional" to something else. 16:47 kados owen: I've got a language question for ya 16:47 kados owen: did you used to use 'check out' instead of issues? 16:47 owen yes 16:47 jaron if it's going to be multistep, say something like (step 1 of 3)? 16:47 kados owen: how would you describe 'outstanding issues' report? 16:48 kados jaron: good point 16:48 owen That's awkward, because we would say "What do I have checked out," but "Check-outs" is no good. 16:49 kados this is a report you can run to see who has overdues I guess 16:49 kados lateissues.pl 16:49 owen Then, "Overdues" :) 16:51 owen Looks like we've lost the link to issues from the borrower detail screen 16:52 kados I'm doing a template cleanup right now 16:52 kados so do you say 16:52 kados checkouts? 16:52 kados check-outs? 16:52 kados checked out? 16:53 owen What's the context? 16:53 kados Define issuing rules in a matrix for libraries / patrons / item types (number of issues, duration, cost...). 16:53 kados Define circulation rules in a matrix for libraries / patrons / itemtypes (number of XXX, ...) 16:54 kados so issues -> checkouts? 16:54 kados it's awkard 16:54 kados awkward even 16:54 owen Yeah, it is. I'm not sure what the right choice is. 16:55 owen I wish I could see what other ILSes use 16:55 kados yea 16:55 kados I'll do checkouts 16:55 jaron CheckOut is what unicorn uses for that task in the intranet 16:56 kados sweet, thanks jaron 16:56 kados that works 16:56 owen We should use the calendar picker on the issues screen instead of those drop-downs for 'specify due date' 16:56 jaron while I think their Discharging is a weird word. 16:56 owen jaron: are there places where unicorn refers to "checkouts" 16:57 owen "Check Out" doesn't sound awkward when it's an action, but it sounds weird as a noun. 16:57 kados jaron: yea, well voyager says Charge Out and Charge In 16:57 kados owen: wrote down calendar thingy 16:59 jaron I don't know about the intranet but the 'my account' part of the opac presents the user with their Checkouts 17:02 kados I think Last Borrower is an appropriate use of the term, right/ 17:02 kados ? 17:02 kados last patron doesn't make quite as much sense 17:03 owen Yeah, I think last borrwoer is appropriate 17:03 kados street, place, road, etc. 17:03 kados list of authorized values 17:03 kados don't think I populated it in this install 17:05 kados No. of Issues 17:05 kados No. of times checked out? 17:09 kados owen: debarred? 17:09 kados owen: that's uncommon too, right? 17:09 kados shouldn't it just be 'Frozen' or somehing? 17:10 owen I suspect so. I think we used "Restricted" before, which is probably better 17:40 jaron where would I find the zebra config files that koha 3.0 uses? 17:41 kados hehe 17:41 kados good question 17:41 kados I don't think there are authoritative ones 17:41 kados well, there are, but not globally for the project 17:41 kados I can point you to the ones we use 17:42 jaron that'll be a start 17:42 kados zebra configuration is heady stuff 17:42 kados so be warned 17:42 jaron I'm working my way through the docs now 17:43 kados http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewvc/koha/misc/zebra/?root=koha 17:43 kados prolly a good place to start 17:44 jaron ok, misc. wouldn't have thought to look there right away. thanks. 17:44 kados yea 17:44 kados it's not the best place 17:44 kados in the install package it'll be laid out more sanely 18:40 kados ryan: still around? 18:40 kados [Tue Jul 03 11:39:19 2007] [error] [client 71.171.181.120] DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Unknown column 'defaultvalue' in 'field list' at /koha/production/intranet/modules/C4/Biblio.pm line 1464., referer: http://aragorn.metavore.com/cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/addbooks.pl 18:40 kados [Tue Jul 03 11:39:19 2007] [error] [client 71.171.181.120] DBD::mysql::st fetchrow failed: fetch() without execute() at /koha/production/intranet/modules/C4/Biblio.pm line 1477., referer: http://aragorn.metavore.com/cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/addbooks.pl 18:40 kados I guess that's something new 18:40 kados defaultvalue 18:40 kados probably the reason my marc editor isn't working 18:41 ryan missed updatedatabase. 18:41 kados huh 18:41 ryan installer should have run it, eh? 18:41 kados shouldn't have to do that with the installer 18:41 kados our kohastructure.sql should have everything needed 18:41 ryan but... 18:46 kados oh man 18:47 kados we have to add defaultvalue to every sql file I think 18:47 kados every marc21 framework 18:48 kados huh 18:48 kados defaultvalue isn't even in paul's database def 18:48 kados wtf? 19:09 owen kados: the process by which patrons are set as debarred--is that a custom script NPL is running? Or is that distributed with Koha? 19:14 kados it's distributed 19:14 kados but it has to be set up in the crontab 19:15 owen You'd have to check for outstanding fines at the very least. 19:16 owen Maybe borrower notes as well 19:16 kados what's the reverse? 19:16 kados take the status off when the book's returned?? 19:16 owen Yes 19:16 kados the normal return process should already do that 19:17 owen Not in my experience. 19:19 owen Nope, doesn't work that way for us. 19:19 kados interesting 19:35 kados afternoon saorge 21:39 chris morning 21:47 martinmorris evening all - i was asking an authorities question last night and the expert wasn't here - just wondering if he is tonight? 21:47 chris well im not him :) 21:48 martinmorris it might be a simpler question - i'm just noticing that when i edit a biblio and link it to a name authority i've added - i then search for the name authority and it says it's used in 0 biblios 21:48 chris hmm that seems wrong 21:48 martinmorris well, that's what I thought 21:49 martinmorris there's nothing obvious in bugzila 21:50 chris hmm, id report it as a bug 21:50 chris and write down what you did 21:50 martinmorris i think i might 21:51 chris that way it will keep showing up in ppls bug lists and get fixed fast :) 21:51 martinmorris as a separate point, if my name authority has a 100 entry and a 400 entry, and i link it to a biblio, that biblio should be found whether i search for it through the 100 or 400 name, right? 21:52 chris thats what id expect 21:52 martinmorris yeah, that's not happening either 21:52 martinmorris wondering if i've set it up wrong, i'm fairly confidentish i haven't 21:53 chris bug is the best way to get lots of eyes on it, so even if it is a setup, they should be able to tell ya what is wrong 21:54 martinmorris doing so now, ta 21:54 chris cool 22:00 martinmorris bug id 1370 22:00 martinmorris off to bed, night! :) 22:00 chris night 00:59 kados hi paul__