Time  Nick     Message
14:05 thd      kados: are you there?
19:04 paul     hello world. it's 9PM and 5 mn, am I the only one on this chanel ?
19:04 rch      hi paul (nope)
19:04 cm       nope, paul, you're not.  :)
19:04 paul     )
19:04 paul     was asking himself, of course ;-)
19:05 paul     kiwis are awaken...
19:05 russel   hi paul
19:05 paul     hi russel
19:05 paul     'morning
19:05 russel   very cold here this morning - hard to get out of bed :-)
19:06 tumer[A] hello all, long time its been
19:06 paul     hi tumer. nice to see you here for the meeting
19:06 kados2   wow
19:06 kados2   sorry golks
19:06 kados2   folks even
19:06 tumer    hi paul
19:06 kados2   IRC was blocked where I am currently
19:07 kados2   ryan found ircatwork.com for me, so thanks ryan
19:07 kados2   big turnout today!
19:07 tumer    i am here just by coincidence, been away from library work for some time
19:08 kados2   so are we ready to get started?
19:08 kados2   maybe we can do a roll call?
19:08 ryan     here!
19:08 tumer    tumer present
19:08 cm       cm here
19:09 sanspach sanspach lurking
19:09 russel   russel is here
19:09 paul     (I told him he will be
19:09 kados2   hey sanspach, long time no see
19:09 paul     (sorry)
19:09 kados2   morning russ, thanks for making it so early!
19:09 kados2   still waiting for chris I take it?
19:10 kados2   http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes07jun18
19:10 kados2   there's our agenda
19:10 kados2   I put in some suggested times as wel
19:10 kados2   we will have to postpone the discussion of Git until chris gets here
19:10 tumer    kados have you doubled?
19:11 russel   we needed more work out of him so we cloned him
19:11 kados2   hehe
19:11 kados2   so we have some new folks here
19:11 kados2   maybe you'd be willing to introduce yourselves
19:11 kados2   bureado?
19:11 kados2   johnb, cm, kyle_
19:12 kados2   sanspach, saorge
19:12 kados2   pecisk (don't recognise the nick)
19:12 paul     and maybe newlogbot should be introduced as well ;-)
19:12 kados2   burg, tnb too i think
19:12 kados2   hehe
19:13 pecisk   :))
19:13 kados2   so if you want, tell us who you are, and your interest in Koha, and if you have any development/documentation/specification/translation skills, etc.
19:13 kados2   or other things you'd like to do on Koha
19:13 pecisk   feel
19:13 cm       guess i'm the only one paying attention from ccfls... don't know where johnb & kyle_ are.
19:14 kados2   (cm, and ccfls isn't really new to Koha, but maybe new to the developer's chat)
19:14 kados2   :-)
19:14 johnb    I'm here
19:15 cm       yeah, i'm not on here much.  good news, though; we migrated our 1st & largest library to dev_week.
19:15 cm       now only 8 more to go.  ;)
19:15 kados2   wohoo!
19:15 cm       w00t!
19:15 tumer    I will be needing ILL module very soon has to be OCLC compliant, anyone working on that?
19:16 pecisk   I am Linux admin and dev, I am interested in Koha from a time when I girlfriend wrote project about implementing it in local museum, unfortunately lot of real time issues blocked to realise it in real life. However, I like that Koha is here and quite advanced, as I hate proritary backend stuff which is very expensive to license and doesn't work in lot of cases anyway :)
19:16 thd      cm: what are the ccfls?
19:16 kados2   chris: welcome
19:16 cm       crawford county federated library system, in northwestern pennsylvania
19:16 kados2   pecisk: welcome to Koha
19:17 pecisk   thanks :)
19:17 kados2   ok, well don't want to force anyone else to announce themselves
19:17 kados2   so we'll move on
19:17 kados2   news from developers?
19:17 kados2   I will start
19:17 pecisk   I could do translating and testing, but not much developer time for now, but I hope for more in future
19:18 thd      kados2: asking is not forcing
19:18 kados2   last IRC meeting I announced that Liblime was hiring chris, mason and russ from Katipo
19:18 kados2   so this time, I'm announcing that transition is completed
19:18 kados2   and also, the big news everyone heard on the list already, we have  Koha Project Day every week now
19:19 kados2   it will be on Sunday/Monday (Sunday for the US office, Monday for the NZ one)
19:19 toins_   good point
19:19 kados2   pecisk, great!
19:19 kados2   paul, do you have some news from France?
19:20 paul     yes, one that I alreday have mailed to koha-devel : 2 libraries are running Koha 3.0 live
19:20 paul     one with zebra, one without.
19:20 kados2   very cool
19:20 paul     we have open suivi.paulpoulain.com to track bugs.
19:20 paul     it's mantis, a bugzilla like, but it's in french, so easier for frenchies to fill.
19:20 kados2   neat
19:21 paul     and that will be our customer entry point for requests.
19:21 cm       we've been using mantis too.  very handy.
19:21 paul     another one : SAN-OP just published their RFP for a new acquisition module. we will answer, of course ;-)
19:22 paul     a last one : we should have a new large public library, in New Caledonia, switching to Koha in 2007 (half the size of SAN-OP / NPL)
19:22 kados2   fantastic paul
19:22 kados2   anyone else with some news?
19:23 tumer    i have a zip file for Windows with rel TG
19:23 tumer    it instalss all modules perl
19:23 kados2   wow, that sounds great tumer
19:23 tumer    zebra,sql in 3 minutes
19:23 kados2   !!
19:23 paul     wow... I can't believe it !
19:23 thd      tumer: can I build your release completely from that?
19:23 tumer    ready to download at http://library.neu.edu.tr/cgi-bbin/koha/opac-downlodas
19:24 toins_   404 not found...
19:24 tumer    it bulds all necessary files already downloaded 86 times
19:24 ryan     downlodas ?
19:25 ryan     downloads ?
19:25 tumer    the result is The Parliament library of Turkey wants us to install it (big library)
19:25 tumer     doing it next month
19:25 kados2   cool tumer
19:25 ryan     nice
19:26 thd      tumer: when is the Turkish national library switching to Koha?
19:26 tumer    http://library.neu.edu.tr/cg-bin/koha/opac-downloads.pl but instructions in Turkish
19:26 kados2   ok, we have a big agenda
19:26 kados2   so lets move on
19:26 kados2   we'll skip git details until chris gets here
19:27 kados2   except to say that LibLime have been using git internally
19:27 tumer    is it any good?
19:27 ryan     we like it
19:27 tumer    cool
19:27 kados2   the way koha version control works now it's very inefficient
19:28 kados2   we all run off of one 'stable' CVS branch
19:28 kados2   so every time someone commits something
19:28 kados2   it could break something else
19:28 kados2   with git, that won't happen
19:28 kados2   each person can have version control, and send notices to the RM when a new feature is ready
19:28 kados2   (similar to a commit, but doesn't affect the RM's version)
19:29 kados2   the RM can then branch, pull in the changes, test, and merge with the main tree
19:30 kados2   this will require the RM to be involved in every commit
19:30 kados2   which will improve our QA as well
19:30 kados2   if the RM doesn't have time, he can delegate the task to others
19:30 kados2   who he trusts to make the decisions
19:32 kados2   any questions/concerns/comments?
19:32 thd      kados2: are local repositories only available locally or are they distributed under git?
19:32 paul     yes, I have one !
19:32 kados2   thd: we can still have a main project repo
19:32 kados2   thd: and each developer can have their own repo
19:33 paul     how will we decide to switch to git and how will we manage the CVS => git move ?
19:34 kados2   good question
19:34 kados2   s
19:34 kados2   I was hoping we could decide today to switch
19:34 kados2   the CVS=>git transition can be handled by ryan, chris and I
19:34 kados2   along with documentation on how to use the new setup
19:35 paul     how will that work (the transition) ?
19:35 thd      kados2: how does git differ from the GNU project which starts with an 'a'
19:35 kados2   how to decide: I think it's all about concensus among the people who write code in CVS
19:35 kados2   thd: git is what the linux kernel uses for version control
19:35 kados2   paul: chris can tell us best
19:35 paul     so, the SAN-OP is the only one missing unless i'm missing someone
19:36 kados2   paul: yes, but they don't write much code, do they?
19:36 paul     anyway, if I have directions to help me start, I'm OK to move.
19:36 kados2   and we can have a CVS front-end
19:36 paul     right, but they synch their version with the HEAD one
19:36 kados2   so for people that only want to use CVS, it's OK
19:37 paul     with a cvs branch being managed by 1 git local repository (not sure to use the correct terms...)
19:37 paul     ?
19:37 thd      kados2: there is a gnu CVS version control system which starts with an ''a'.  How does git differ?
19:37 kados2   thd I don't know what that is
19:38 kados2   thd: http://git.or.cz/
19:38 ryan     paul: right, your repo will be master for rel_2_2 , and kados' for head
19:38 paul     ryan:  ok, understood, thx
19:38 kados2   we will also still have a web version history
19:38 kados2   it has better views than savannah currently has
19:39 kados2   and we can still have an email list for commits
19:39 paul     my other question was about how to have an easy to access source code. I think this is the answer ;-)
19:39 paul     what is a "commit" under git ?
19:39 paul     when someone want to tell ppl that something is available on it's repository ?
19:40 ryan     a commit will generate an email, or the committer might post to koha-devel
19:40 ryan     then everyone will pull changes to their repos
19:40 paul     I prefer an automatic email, to be sure not to forget ;-)
19:41 kados2   you can also 'push' to a shared repository
19:41 kados2   chris has been planning how it should work, and considering as well how each library/company will want their own repo
19:41 kados2   ok, so if there are no objections
19:42 kados2   we will plan this soon
19:42 paul     none from me (except that I hope we will find enough time to learn git & other git tools ...)
19:42 kados2   and chris will be writing a mail soon explaining the process
19:42 paul     do you also use cogito & other git related tools ?
19:42 kados2   (not me, but I think other LLers have played with it)
19:42 ryan     cogito has largely become a part of git proper
19:43 paul     part of git proper ???
19:43 paul     a part of git itself you mean ?
19:43 ryan     yes
19:43 ryan     it's very easy to use
19:43 ryan     you will like it :)
19:43 kados2   ok, so I have another item under 'Koha 3.0 release plan'
19:43 kados2   1st item is that I propose we move to git :-)
19:44 kados2   2nd is that I propose to move to time-based releases, starting immediately
19:44 tumer    seconded
19:44 paul     time based releases ? I fully agree with this idea...
19:44 kados2   the proposal is release 6 times a year
19:44 tumer    time-based?
19:44 kados2   three types of releases
19:44 kados2   alpha, beta, stable
19:44 paul     we say "it will be available at this date, we will see with what features"
19:45 kados2   so a new release every two months
19:45 kados2   July - Beta
19:45 kados2   Sept - Stable
19:45 kados2   Nov - Alpha
19:45 kados2   Jan - beta
19:45 kados2   Mar - Stable
19:45 kados2   etc.
19:45 paul     feature based release : "it will be able when those features will be included, whatever the date"
19:45 kados2   until now, with 3.0 it has ben impossible, because it wasn't stable at all
19:46 kados2   but we can do a beta now
19:46 paul     so your proposal is to completly change our release theory ?
19:46 kados2   (in July)
19:46 thd      what does time based release mean exactly?
19:46 kados2   and get feedback, and then a stable in sept
19:47 kados2   I am proposing a change in the release theory, yes
19:47 kados2   three types of releases
19:47 kados2   alpha - maybe some bugs, please test
19:47 kados2   beta - most bugs fixed, we think it's stable, please test
19:47 paul     what if a bug appears in a sept-stable version, that is discovered in, say, november ?
19:47 kados2   stable - tested, in production at some places
19:48 kados2   I think that we release the stable version with the bug fix
19:48 paul     + are you speaking of public releases ?
19:48 kados2   paul, yes public releases
19:48 kados2   so we have say 2.2.10
19:48 kados2   then, a bug is found
19:48 kados2   so we do 2.2.10b
19:48 kados2   with only the bug fix
19:48 thd      paul: is not issuing a new release the same as happens now?
19:49 kados2   paul (git will make this easier)
19:49 paul     thd : ???
19:49 kados2   paul: (as you know for 2.2, this is quite hard )
19:49 paul     right. It is harder because, as 3.0 was long to come, some ppl have added feature to rel_2_2 ...
19:49 kados2   right
19:50 thd      paul: I mean how would issuing a bug fix release be any different?
19:50 paul     what I wanted to propose was to have :
19:50 paul     - 2.2 branch, strictly bugfixes
19:50 paul     - 2.4 branch, based on 2.2+liblime additions (serials, barcode printing, and some others)
19:51 paul     - 3.0 branch, based on head.
19:51 kados2   hmmm
19:51 kados2   I would prefer only two:
19:51 kados2   2.2 branch, based on 2.2+liblime additions
19:51 kados2   3.0 branch, based on head
19:52 kados2   (liblime editions I think also include mysql 5 support by the way)
19:52 kados2   (which is necessary even for 2.2, as many people have trouble with 2.2 because they have mysql 5)
19:52 paul     you're right. except your additions have been done on npl templates, and we couldn't test them deeply, even if I asked toins to port them to default templates)
19:53 paul     so, in france, I have problems with this branch.
19:53 kados2   right
19:53 thd      paul: now that Etch is stable I think that 2.2 should have MySQL 5 support
19:53 kados2   ok
19:53 kados2   I will have LL team add to default then
19:53 thd      paul: what problems do you have in France with 2.4?
19:53 kados2   it will be less work in the long run
19:54 kados2   to get them working with both templates
19:54 kados2   than to have two branches and another release to manage
19:54 kados2   paul: is that OK?
19:54 paul     thd : right. I tried to port mySQL5.0 to 2.2.x, I may have missed some, but a large part of the stuff should be OK
19:54 paul     kados2 : yes, i'm OK.
19:54 kados2   great
19:54 kados2   so we have decided:
19:55 kados2   1. moving to git
19:55 paul     (even if I'll have to investigate & test your additions anyway, for my customers ;-) )
19:55 kados2   2. time-based releases: every two months, alpha, beta, stable
19:55 kados2   3. LL will commit to default templates, and we will not have a 2.4, but stay with 2.2
19:55 kados2   wow, very productive meeting :-)
19:55 paul     about 2. :
19:56 paul     how will we handle major new features that could not be done in just 6 months ?
19:56 paul     (git will help us will be the answer i think ;-) )
19:56 kados2   yes :-)
19:56 kados2   they can be created on a branch
19:56 kados2   and merged when they are ready
19:56 russel   and how will we handle when two teams are working on a similar feature at the same time?
19:57 kados2   russel: good question
19:57 russel   i am thinking of ACQ which everyone seems to want to have a crack at
19:57 kados2   acquisitions is a good example
19:57 kados2   snap
19:57 paul     right.
19:57 kados2   paul: some news: we have a large academic library that we have worked with to define some new acquisitions features
19:57 paul     yes, you already told me.
19:58 kados2   we could:
19:58 kados2   1. examine each other's specifications, and decide who will work on what, etc.
19:58 kados2   2. have two comletely different acquisitions modules
19:59 paul     1 = maybe, but will require a big coordination, and SAN-OP want something live for 2008, jan
19:59 paul     2 = would be a shame
19:59 kados2   yep
19:59 thd      Is either looking for a full accounting system?
19:59 kados2   thd: yes, ours is
19:59 paul     not for us
20:00 kados2   I think #2 is the only way for acquisitions
20:00 ryan     i like the idea of modularizing the modules.
20:00 thd      I have a suggestion for full accounting
20:00 paul     (maybe you can explain what you call "full accounting system") ?
20:00 ryan     so an acqisitions module can be 'installed' into koha
20:00 kados2   ryan: yea
20:00 paul     because in france, public structure accounting software are very specific, proprietary, expensive, user-unfriendly, ...
20:01 johnb    We had this conversation in France.  Due to everyones accounting quirks wouldn't it be best to make ACQ a plugin?
20:01 paul     maybe/probably
20:01 thd      paul: everything you might expect to manage all parts of a libraries budget control and payments
20:01 paul     so, definetly : NO speaking of SAN-OP plans.
20:01 russel   ok so step back from ACQ for a sec
20:01 russel   bigger picture
20:01 thd      s/libraries/library's/
20:02 russel   how do we manage when two sets of developers are working on similar features at the same time?
20:02 kados2   russel: depends on what you mean by 'manage'
20:03 tumer    1. declare your intention of developing a module
20:03 russel   or are we just going to have to reconcile that there will be duplicated effort from time to time?
20:03 thd      I think there is a namespace concern if they may not be compatible
20:03 tumer    2. discuss with other interested parties
20:03 tumer    3. share work
20:03 kados2   russel: I think tumer's right, we need to be better about declaring our intentions on the koha-devel channel
20:03 russel   tumer++
20:03 russel   i dont think we do enough of that is my concern
20:04 kados2   russel: I completely agree
20:04 cm       perhaps use a centralized tasklist on the wiki or somesuch?
20:04 paul     I don't remember having added a major feature without warning on koha-dev before. So it's not a big job ;-)
20:04 russel   well when do you give the warning?
20:04 russel   when you start working on it
20:04 tumer    paul you war that you added not adding?
20:04 kados2   paul: we have announced major features, but we haven't really been good about defining them ahead of time
20:04 russel   or just before you commit it?
20:05 paul     speaking of major additions, I share before writing them.
20:05 kados2   so maybe we need to:
20:05 kados2   1. announce the new feature
20:05 russel   paul: that is a good policy
20:05 paul     anyway, we should agree on what is a "major addition" ;-)
20:05 kados2   2. release specifications
20:06 kados2   part of the problem is, until now, many of the core devs haven't had time to read other people's specifications
20:06 kados2   because we are too busy with our own specifications :-)
20:06 kados2   but I can say, that is changing at LibLime
20:06 russel   i think it is getting to the stage where we all need to make the time
20:06 kados2   esp with the new Koha Project Jay
20:06 kados2   Day even
20:06 kados2   rusel: exactly
20:07 paul     a second part of the problem is that our customers want answers in french, and you don't speak french very well :-D
20:07 kados2   hehe
20:07 russel   well i have been talking to Irma in sydney, she has offered to help translate this type of thing
20:07 ryan     a defined process for public review of specs before implementation ?
20:07 ryan     or is that too restrictive ?
20:07 paul     for example, i've written a 33 pages doc about all koha 3.0 new features... waiting for translation...
20:07 paul     (irma will do at least a part of the job it seems)
20:08 kados2   right
20:08 cm       paul:  i'll do it if noone else wants to.  ;)
20:08 thd      kados2: GnuArch is the Savannah supported distributed version control system of which I was thinking as comparable maybe more featurefull than git
20:09 kados2   thd: we looked at arch a while back
20:09 kados2   thd: 2.0.x had some arch repos in fact
20:09 kados2   ok, getting back
20:09 kados2   to the topic at hand
20:10 kados2   what we need I think
20:10 kados2   is to get more users involved
20:10 kados2   in the development process
20:10 kados2   people who work for libraries
20:11 kados2   we need to find some libraries who can directly devote staff time to koha IMO
20:11 thd      kados2: the problem is that having you library vendor ask for volunteers is lack asking to be payed twice for support
20:11 kados2   thd: not really
20:11 russel   well they probably are devoting a lot of time to koha, but internally
20:12 kados2   thd: because we don't get paid for things related to the project
20:12 kados2   thd: libraries want to pay as little as possible to us, so they just pay for the specific services we provide, like hosting, data migration, development
20:12 thd      kados2: I mean as compared to being asked by a foundation
20:13 thd      the request will always sound better coming from a foundation
20:13 sanspach russel: exactly  --the key is coordinating things so that their internal work can be made to work for testing and vice versa
20:13 paul     i've forgotten a french news !!!
20:13 paul     french koha NPO exist !!!
20:13 paul     www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr
20:14 paul     www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/
20:14 paul     search "kohala"
20:14 kados2   wow, great paul!
20:14 kados2   paul: johnb has organized a meeting at ALA this year (in about a week)
20:15 paul     the "we need to find some libraries who can directly devote staff time to koha IMO" reminds me this...
20:15 kados2   paul: to discuss a US one
20:15 kados2   yep
20:15 paul     yes, i've seen the announce
20:15 kados2   I still think, those are just 'users groups'
20:15 kados2   I'm not sure they are the same as a 'koha software foundation'
20:15 kados2   I've been looking at plone as a model: plone.org
20:15 kados2   they have a foundation
20:16 kados2   and it's worked quite well for them
20:16 kados2   but anyway, this is off track
20:16 kados2   and I have a meeting in 15 minutes :(
20:16 kados2   to touch on some points:
20:17 kados2   we don't need to move the IRC channel, we can 'relay' to freenode to increase visibility
20:17 paul     'relay' ???
20:17 kados2   a bot can relay messages from irc.freenode.net #koha to irc.katipo.co.nz #koha and back
20:17 kados2   we tested it last week
20:17 kados2   and it works fine
20:18 [K]      *** join #koha@FreeNode: toins n=toins@AMarseille-251-1-59-126.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr
20:18 paul     ok. so any of those both chanel are equivalent ?
20:18 kados2   hi toins at freenode :-)
20:18 toins_   hehe
20:18 kados2   paul: yes
20:18 kados2   ok, I'm going out of order
20:18 ryan     problem is there's no /who
20:19 kados2   perhaps we will skip 'copyright conventions' and leave that for the next meeting when slef is here
20:19 paul     I think the koha-dev thread was clear.
20:19 kados2   the koha-dev thread had some ideas, but no conclusions :-)
20:19 kados2   everyone had a different idea IIRC
20:20 paul     Ouch.  Surely that could be replaced by the shorter:
20:20 paul     # Copyright 2000-2007 Katipo Communications
20:20 paul     # Copyright 2002-2007 Paul Poulain
20:20 paul     # Copyright 2004-2007 LibLime
20:20 paul     sounds fair
20:20 thd      there is a big problem with that form of notice
20:21 ryan     i think the code should reference an external document.
20:21 kados2   ryan: that's my thinking lately too
20:21 thd      any one of those parties may be able to make a claim on the whole work
20:22 kados2   I have only 10 minutes now
20:22 thd      kados2 what else is on the agenda aside from copyright?
20:22 kados2   I think we should skip 'improving koha.org' because IIRC tina was going to show something and it's not ready yet
20:22 kados2   so we have two items left:
20:22 kados2   Open Positions in the Community
20:22 kados2   OpenCataloger
20:23 russel   you prolly have enough time for one :-) go with OpenCataloger would be my pick
20:23 kados2   hehe
20:23 russel   move copyright and positions to next meeting
20:23 tumer    seconded
20:23 kados2   russel: sounds good
20:23 russel   cos those will require lots of discussion
20:24 kados2   https://gna.org/projects/opencataloger
20:24 kados2   that's the project paul and toins created
20:25 kados2   and a new developer has joined the effort, it's the Google Summer of Code programmer Chris Catalfo
20:25 thd      I have a concern that the design of opencataloger not dilute the quality and usability of the plugins
20:25 kados2   there's a mailing list too
20:26 kados2   toins has already done a ton of work on this
20:26 kados2   maybe toins can talk about it briefly?
20:26 toins_   humm....
20:27 kados2   (maybe at the same time as toins is talking, everyone can say if this is a good time to meet in two weeks from now)
20:27 toins_   opencataloger is a web based application written in XUL/Javascript for the client side and perl for server side
20:27 kados2   (Monday, July 2nd)
20:27 kados2   (so we can finish the agenda?)
20:27 thd      good for me
20:28 cm       yep, good for ccfls folks too.
20:28 toins_   its tries to let the cataloger free to do what he wants
20:28 paul     july 2nd is OK for me
20:28 ryan     ++
20:29 toins_   it s a marc editor for advanced cataloger
20:29 toins_   what more ? Except as kados2 has certainly notify, it not work very well atm
20:30 kados2   it works well, except for saving :-)
20:30 toins_   its can searchs on multiple Z3950 server
20:30 toins_   edit records
20:30 toins_   classify them on an 'finish reservoir' and 'unfinish reservoir'
20:30 kados2   Chris plans to have it working and ready for production by the end of the summer
20:31 thd      toins_ it is actually much more efficient than the existing Koha record editor independent of experience
20:31 kados2   alng with toins help of course
20:31 toins_   currently only saveToKoha22.pl works well
20:31 ryan     toins_++
20:32 kados2   ok, I have to go now
20:32 kados2   thanks everyone
20:32 paul     you"re welcome
20:32 kados2   sorry, my travel plans were unexpected
20:32 paul     time to go to bed for frenchies
20:32 kados2   it won't happen next time, I promise :-)
20:32 kados2   (but probably ok anyway, to keep meetings short)
20:32 kados2   I'll write a summary
20:32 kados2   and mail to koha-devel
20:32 kados2   and announce the next meeting
20:32 kados2   bye
20:32 toins_   bye
21:52 bureado  kados:
22:07 chris     heya bess
22:07 bess     hi!
22:08 bess     wow, there's quite a few people in here
22:08 bess     is everyone koha developers or admins?
22:08 chris    not everyone but a few of us are
22:08 bess     can I ask some koha zoom installation questions?
22:08 chris    there are some koha users too .. and people asleep :)
22:09 chris    sure
22:09 chris    I may or may not be able to answer it :)
22:09 bess     so, I'm following the installation instructions...
22:09 chris    on the wiki?
22:09 bess     I'm following the ones can came with the installation package that kados sent me.
22:09 bess     Is there a better set on the wiki?
22:10 bess     maybe I should try those
22:10 bess     What is the url?
22:10 dewey    the url is, like, http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/
22:10 chris    ahh kados sent you some ... those are probably better
22:10 bess     hmmm... that url doesn't work dewey
22:10 chris    the wiki ones are old
22:10 chris    dewey is a bot :)
22:10 chris    http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=installingzebraplugin226
22:10 bess     ah!
22:11 bess     so, is koha zoom the same thing as koha 2.2.6?
22:11 chris    nope
22:11 bess     hi, chris!! Yes, I'm bess sadler
22:12 bess     wow, that's cool. :)
22:12 chris    koha zoom hasnt had a public release yet
22:12 bess     okay, so I'm trying to install koha zoom
22:12 bess     are the installation instructions that come with it the right ones to use?
22:12 chris    yep, so koha zoom is koha 2.2.x plus the Zebra plugin
22:12 bess     ah, okay, making more sense.
22:13 chris    if kados sent them, id assume so :)
22:13 bess     yes, but he sent them over a month ago
22:13 bess     I'm very behind on the project I'm working on
22:13 chris    we havent managed to build an easy to install release for koha zoom
22:13 bess     right.
22:13 bess     See, I'm trying to get you funding to do that. :)
22:13 chris    hence no public release
22:13 bess     Do you know about library-in-a-box?
22:13 chris    but the code is all in cvs
22:13 chris    sure do
22:14 chris    i heard you talking with talis about it :)
22:14 bess     okay, so this is me trying to get it installed so I can report back to the soros foundation
22:14 chris    righto
22:14 bess     really? you heard that podcast. Cool?
22:14 chris    yep
22:14 bess     okay, so, something weird...
22:14 chris    fire away
22:14 bess     Warning: DocumentRoot [/koha/production/intranet/htdocs] does not exist
22:14 bess     Warning: DocumentRoot [/koha/production/opac/htdocs] does not exist
22:14 bess     And sure enough, they don't exist.
22:15 bess     Or, to be more accurate...
22:15 chris    ah ha
22:15 bess     cgi-bin -> ../rel_3_0/koha/
22:15 bess     and there is nothing in rel_3_0/koha
22:15 chris    do joshuas instructions include setting up the symlinks?
22:15 bess     no
22:15 chris    hmm
22:15 bess     there is a symlink
22:15 bess     but it links to an empty directory
22:16 bess     which seems problematic to me.
22:16 chris    thats helpful :)
22:16 bess     :)
22:16 chris    yeah thats not gonna work :)
22:16 bess     so did the CVS checkout not work completely?
22:16 bess     maybe?
22:16 chris    could be
22:17 chris    id have to see the instructions
22:17 bess     so there is supposed to be stuff in that folder, yes?
22:17 bess     What's your email?
22:17 bess     I'll send them to you
22:17 chris    crc@liblime.com
22:17 bess     hang on...
22:18 chris    ta
22:19 bess     okay, I just sent them off
22:19 chris    cool
22:20 chris    right ill quickly read through them
22:20 bess     okay, thanks
22:20 bess     brb
22:22 bess     I'm back
22:22 chris    still reading :)
22:22 bess     take your time
22:24 chris    hmm
22:24 chris    so you have a /koha dir
22:25 bess     yes
22:25 chris    which should have production/ testing/ bin and cron under it ?
22:25 bess     hang on..
22:26 bess     trying to get my screen arranged so I can type and look at the text window
22:26 chris    righto :)
22:26 chris    oh and log and etc
22:27 bess     yes, /koha has backups bin cron etc log production testing and tmp
22:27 chris    right
22:27 chris    hmm
22:28 chris    and in /koha/production/intranet
22:28 chris    there is a symlink to a non existing dir?
22:28 chris    and no htdocs?
22:28 bess     cgi-bin -> ../rel_3_0/koha/
22:28 bess     htdocs -> ../rel_3_0/koha/koha-tmpl
22:28 chris    ok
22:29 bess     modules
22:29 chris    i think we can fix this
22:29 chris    if we do
22:29 chris    cd /koha/production/cvsrepo/
22:29 bess     ok
22:30 chris    in there is there a koha/ dir ?
22:30 bess     y
22:30 bess     hmmm... C4
22:30 bess     that's one of my missing directories
22:30 chris    and thats our cvs checkout
22:30 bess     so is installer
22:30 chris    yeah
22:30 chris    now what i dont understand is
22:31 chris    is why cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha
22:31 chris    ahhh i do understand
22:32 bess     yes?
22:32 chris    he has modified the instustions for koha 3.0 .. but not all the way
22:32 bess     ah
22:33 chris    can we do a rm -r koha (in  /koha/production/cvsrepo/ )
22:33 bess     sure
22:33 bess     done
22:33 chris    and we will then checkout the dev_week (which is koha zoom)
22:34 bess     how do I do that?
22:34 chris    cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -r dev_week -P koha
22:35 chris    in that directory
22:35 bess     from /koha/production/cvsrepo?
22:35 chris    thats the one
22:35 chris    once thats done we can make or symlinks to the right places
22:35 bess     it's downloading
22:35 chris    our even
22:35 bess     :)
22:36 bess     okay, done
22:36 chris    speedy
22:36 bess     yes, I'm at the uni. :)
22:36 chris    much faster than over here to nz
22:36 bess     where are you? NZ?
22:36 chris    yep
22:36 bess     cool.
22:36 chris    wellington
22:36 chris    ok
22:36 bess     I've always wanted to go there
22:37 bess     ok, what next?
22:37 chris    lets go to /koha/production/intranet
22:37 bess     ok
22:37 chris    and our htdocs symlink should be htdocs -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/koha-tmpl/
22:38 bess     done: htdocs -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/koha-tmpl
22:38 chris    cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/
22:38 bess     done: cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha
22:39 chris    now what i do here
22:39 bess     what about modules/C4?
22:39 bess     same thing, yes?
22:39 chris     -> /koha/prodcution/cvsrepo/koha/C4/
22:39 chris    yep
22:40 bess     okay, done
22:40 chris    righto
22:40 chris    you got all the perl modules installed, and zebra up and running eh?
22:40 bess     yes
22:41 chris    in theory .. it might be working now :)
22:41 chris    we may have to restart apache
22:41 bess     restarting....
22:41 bess     hmm... not yet
22:42 bess     The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server.
22:42 bess     http://lab3.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl
22:42 chris    hmm i wonder if he did want you to install koha 3 .. not zoom
22:43 bess     I'm still not clear on the distinction
22:43 bess     What URL should I go to?
22:43 chris    heres what we can do
22:43 bess     could there be a problem w/ my httpd config?
22:44 chris    no, its fine
22:44 bess     I wasn't sure how to setup the virtualhosts, so I just took a guess based on how my other server is set up.
22:44 chris    what is confusing me is saying Koha ZOOm but the instructions seem to be for 3.0 (which is the upcoming release ... ok i have a plan)
22:44 bess     ok
22:44 chris    lets cd back to /koha/production/cvsrepo
22:45 chris    mv koha koha_dev_week
22:45 bess     ok
22:45 chris    cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha
22:45 chris    (we will check out 3.0 this time)
22:45 bess     ok
22:45 chris    our symlinks should all still be good
22:45 bess     3.0 is the upcoming release, right?
22:45 chris    yep
22:46 bess     drat! no joy. :(
22:46 chris    still the same error?
22:46 bess     The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server.
22:46 chris    hmm
22:47 bess     hang on...
22:47 bess     something is fishy
22:47 chris    what does ls /koha/production/intranet/cgi-bin/ say ?
22:47 chris    is there an installer dir there?
22:48 bess     yes
22:48 bess     I think maybe apache is cacheing something
22:48 chris    ok and in our httpd.conf
22:48 chris    we have
22:48 bess     do you want the whole thing?
22:48 chris    ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/koha/ /koha/production/intranet/cgi-bin/
22:48 chris    ?
22:49 bess     in httpd.conf or in /koha/etc/koha-production-httpd.conf?
22:49 chris    sorry the latter
22:50 bess     no, we have    ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/koha/ "/koha/production/opac/cgi-bin/"
22:50 chris    hmm do we have 2 virtualhosts
22:50 chris    one for opac one for intranet?
22:50 bess     well, I didn't know how to set them up.
22:50 bess     So, maybe I didn't do it right
22:50 bess     NameVirtualHost *:80
22:51 chris    you could email me that file if you wanted
22:51 chris    might be easier
22:51 chris    and i can edit and send back?
22:51 bess     it's already on the way :)
22:51 chris    :)
22:53 bess     okay, it took me a second to get it sent off
22:53 bess     I realized I can't send mail from the actual server
22:53 chris    ahh bummer
22:53 bess     it's on the way now
22:53 chris    koha wont be able to send you overdue notices :-)
22:53 bess     good point
22:54 bess     I finally got the university to cough up a debian server
22:54 bess     we run red hat here and boy was that a fiasco, trying to install this on red hat
22:54 chris    yeah its been done, but its not easy .. these are all things we have to overcome to get a nice public release
22:54 chris    ok .. so this looks ok to me
22:55 bess     but what about the second virtualhost?
22:55 chris    the url you are hitting is productionintranet   right?
22:55 bess     I don't understand the question
22:55 bess     the hostname of the server is lab3.betech.virginia.edu
22:55 chris    ah ha
22:56 bess     I'm missing a vital concept, aren't i?
22:56 chris    :)
22:56 chris    yeah that will take you to the opac
22:56 bess     so how do I get to the other?
22:56 bess     it says ServerName productionintranet
22:56 bess     I see that now
22:56 chris    yeah
22:56 bess     how should I change it?
22:57 bess     I mean, we don't have anything called productionintranet registered w/ DNS
22:57 chris    now is it possible to get a nice person who looks after your dns is
22:57 chris    to set up
22:57 chris    opac.lab3.betech.virginia.edu
22:57 chris    and
22:57 bess     Oh, I have an alias!
22:57 chris    staff.lab3.betech.virginia.edu
22:58 bess     koha.betech.virginia.edu
22:58 bess     will that do?
22:58 chris    then you can change the servernames
22:58 chris    sure lets try that
22:58 bess     lab3.betech.virginia.edu = koha.betech.virginia.edu
22:58 chris    change the productionintranet to be koha.betech.virginia.edu
22:58 dewey    chris: that doesn't look right
22:59 chris    ssh dewey
22:59 bess        ServerName koha.betech.virginia.edu
22:59 bess     for the intranet
22:59 chris    yep
22:59 bess     is that right?
22:59 chris    and restart apache
22:59 bess     restarting...
22:59 chris    and in theory
22:59 chris    koha.betech.virginia.edu = intranet
22:59 chris    lab3.betech.virginia.edu = opac
23:00 bess     dammit
23:00 bess     same error
23:00 bess     The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server.
23:00 chris    still defaulting to the opac?
23:00 bess     http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl
23:00 chris    hmm
23:01 chris    ok
23:01 bess     How should the top part of the file be?
23:01 bess     oh wait!
23:01 chris    is there any other error in the main apache2 error log?
23:01 bess     Yes, I broke the top part of the file, and when I changed it back it started working!
23:01 chris    yay
23:01 bess     NameVirtualHost *
23:01 bess     that's what it should say
23:02 bess     I changed it to NameVirtualHost *:80
23:02 bess     because that's how our other apache configs are setup
23:02 bess     but look, it gives a warning when you restart apache:
23:02 chris    cool, and now its happy? koha->intranet lab3->opac ?
23:02 bess     Forcing reload of web server (apache2)...[Mon Jun 18 10:58:57 2007] [warn] NameVirtualHost *:0 has no VirtualHosts
23:03 chris    yeah we can ignore that i think
23:03 bess     I don't know, I haven't run the installer yet.
23:03 bess     What's the login / pass?
23:03 bess     Is it the mysql?
23:03 chris    ahh whatever you set up in your koha.xml
23:03 chris    and used when you made your database
23:03 bess     I didn't change it
23:03 bess     hang on...
23:04 bess     oh wait
23:04 bess     so I'm looking at /production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/koha.xml
23:04 bess     yes?
23:05 chris    ahh /koha/etc/
23:05 chris    i there i think
23:05 bess     okay, hang on
23:05 chris    koha-production.xml in there
23:06 bess     kohaadmin / K0h4R0ck$
23:06 bess     right?
23:06 bess     but it doesn't work
23:06 chris    hmm is there another one further down
23:06 chris    actually when you did this step
23:06 bess     yes, that's the one
23:06 bess     kohaadmin / PASSWORD
23:07 chris    does that work?
23:07 bess     yes
23:07 chris    cool
23:07 bess     creating database tables (this is so exciting to get this far!)
23:07 chris    :)
23:07 bess     dammit!!
23:07 bess     The following error occcurred while importing the database structure:
23:07 chris    i havent done a 3.0 install .. so from here is all new to me
23:08 bess     Unknown suffix '-' used for variable 'port' (value '-u')
23:08 bess     mysql: Error while setting value '-u' to 'port'
23:08 chris    ahh that looks like a bug in the installer
23:08 bess     "Please contact your system administrator" <--- so helpful! :)
23:08 chris    heh
23:08 bess     so this must be happening in install.pl, right?
23:08 chris    does the error log tell you anything
23:09 chris    if it does and it has a linenumber i can go inspect the code
23:09 chris    and maybe fix, then a cvs update should sort you out
23:09 bess     Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /koha/production/intranet/cgi
23:09 bess     in/installer/install.pl line 339., referer: http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=3
23:10 chris    ahh thats a warn, we can ignore that one
23:10 bess     that's the only error
23:10 chris    darn
23:10 chris    ill have a quick look
23:10 bess     how do you know it's a warn?
23:10 chris    use of uniinitialzed value is always a warn
23:11 bess     oh
23:11 chris    ok
23:12 chris    in ur koha-production.xml file
23:12 bess     yes?
23:12 chris    is there a hostname line?
23:12 bess     hang on
23:13 bess     yes. localhost
23:13 chris    k
23:13 bess     that should be right
23:15 chris    yep
23:15 bess             my $str = qx(mysql -h $info{hostname} -P $info{port} -u $info{user} -p$info{password} $info{dbname} <$filename 2>&1);
23:15 bess     I bet there is no value for port
23:15 chris    yeah
23:15 chris    good spotting
23:15 bess     That would make that line read as -P -u username
23:15 bess     which would throw that error
23:15 chris    yep
23:16 bess     there's no place to set port in the koha.xml file
23:16 chris    right
23:16 chris    and if we look at the koha.xml in our cvs repo .. is there one there?
23:16 bess     hang on
23:16 chris    if so, we can copy and paste it ,.. and see if that fixes it
23:17 bess     where would that be?
23:17 chris     /production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/koha.xml
23:19 bess     no
23:19 bess     can I just hack it and put in 3306?
23:19 chris    sure lets try that :)
23:20 bess             my $str = qx(mysql -h $info{hostname} -P 3306 -u $info{user} -p$info{password} $info{dbname} <$filename 2>&1);
23:21 bess     Database tables created
23:21 bess     :)
23:22 bess     i'm installing all the optional stuff...
23:22 bess     hope that's okay
23:23 chris    your guess is as good as mine a this point :)
23:25 bess     everything worked except importing authorities
23:25 chris    ahh
23:25 bess     Congratulations, Installation complete
23:26 bess     whatever that means. :)
23:26 chris    yippy skippy
23:26 chris    i wonder what happens when you hit http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/
23:26 chris    or lab3.
23:27 bess     lab3.betech.virginia.edu redirects me to http://lab3.betech.virginia.edu/apache2-default/
23:27 bess     which just says: It works!
23:27 bess     apache default
23:28 chris    ah we may have to do some more apache config trickery maybe put that as the servername
23:28 chris    in the opac
23:28 chris    does the koha. one get you into the intranet/librarian interface?
23:29 bess     no
23:29 bess     it redirects me to http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=3
23:29 bess     apache config weirdness, you think?
23:29 chris    hmmm i thought it said we were finished
23:29 bess     it did
23:29 chris    :)
23:30 bess     but then it reloaded the page automatically and we were back at http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=3
23:30 chris    ok does http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl work?
23:30 bess     and if I go to http://koha.betech.virginia.edu it takes me there too
23:30 bess     it redirects to the same place! weird.
23:31 chris    that is weird
23:31 chris    lemme look at that config again
23:31 bess     want me to send you the updated one?
23:32 chris    hmm doesnt seem to be any redirects in there
23:33 chris    is there a .htaccess file in /koha/production/intranet/cgi-bin ?
23:33 bess     yes
23:33 bess     ErrorDocument 400 /cgi-bin/koha/koha-tmpl/errors/400.pl
23:33 bess     several ErrorDocument declarations
23:33 chris    *nod*
23:33 chris    any Redirect ones?
23:34 bess     no, only the ErrorDocument lines
23:34 chris    ok
23:34 bess     should I bug Kados about this?
23:34 chris    how bout /koha/production/intranet/htdocs ?
23:34 bess     You're being so helpful, but I worry that I'm taking up all of your time
23:35 bess     no .htaccess file there
23:35 chris    we'll give it 10 more mins :)
23:35 bess     ok, thanks. :)
23:35 chris    hmm
23:35 chris    i wonder where the redirect is coming from
23:36 chris    lets try a brute force :)
23:36 bess     wait!
23:36 bess     I found a problem!
23:36 bess     we updated the symlinks for the intranet, but not for the opac
23:37 bess     cgi-bin -> ../rel_3_0/koha/opac
23:37 bess     which doesn't exist
23:37 chris    ah yep, the opac isnt going yet, (ie we end up at that apache default page)
23:37 bess     I mean, I don't know if this solved our particular problem, but it's something to fix
23:37 chris    yep for sure
23:37 chris    lets go
23:38 bess     so where do the files in /koha/production/opac point to?
23:38 chris    cd /koha/
23:38 chris    grep -r "Redirect" *
23:38 chris    see if we can find this redirect
23:38 bess     wait, I will, but I want to fix one thing at a time
23:38 bess     where do the sym links in /koha/production/opac go?
23:39 chris    ahh i was leaving the opac until we get the intranet going .. but yep we can do it now we will have to change the servername to get the opac to work too
23:39 bess     oh, okay that's fine, we can leave it for later
23:39 chris    opac/cgi-bin goes to the same place as intranet/cgi-bin
23:39 chris    same with htdocs
23:40 chris    sorry i lie,
23:40 chris    opac/cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/opac/
23:40 chris    opac/htdocs ->/koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/koha-tmpl/
23:41 chris    thats all of them eh?
23:41 bess     yes, that's all of them
23:41 chris    cool
23:41 chris    and if we change ServerName to lab3. ...
23:42 chris    and restart apache, hopefully we get the opac up
23:42 bess     wait, change which ServerName?
23:43 chris    the opac one
23:43 chris    (first one)
23:43 bess     it already is lab3
23:43 chris    hmm
23:43 chris    lets try changing
23:43 bess     okay
23:43 chris    <VirtualHost *:80>
23:43 chris    to
23:44 chris    <VirtualHost lab3.betech.virginia.edu:80>
23:44 chris    for the first virtual host
23:44 bess     okay
23:44 bess     restarting
23:44 chris    (its not quite the 8 minutes it takes me to install 2.2 :)
23:45 bess     hooray!
23:45 chris    we have opac? yay
23:45 bess     well, not yet
23:45 bess     but a different error. :)
23:45 chris    heh
23:46 bess     I get a list of files... favicon.ico, index.html, intranet-tmpl, intranet.html
23:46 bess     if I click on index.html I get a 404
23:46 chris    ahh try
23:46 bess     If I click on opac.html I get The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl was not found on this server.
23:47 chris    lab3.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl
23:47 chris    (we have a missing redirect there, and one we dont want in the intranet :))
23:47 bess     The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl was not found on this server.
23:48 chris    hmm
23:48 bess     let's double check those sym links I made
23:48 chris    ls /koha/production/opac/cgi-bin
23:48 chris    if its not there
23:48 chris    then our symlink is wrong
23:48 bess     cgi-bin didn't get the symlink created
23:48 chris    ah ha
23:48 bess     I could have sworn I changed it
23:48 bess     hang on
23:49 bess     dammitt!!
23:50 chris    it wont stick?
23:50 bess     now it's redirecting to The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server.
23:50 bess     the install.pl again!
23:50 bess     Only now it tcan't find it
23:50 bess     pwd = /koha/production/opac
23:50 bess     cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/opac
23:51 chris    thats right
23:51 chris    ok theres some madness going on with this redirect
23:51 chris    lets try our grep
23:51 bess     okay
23:51 chris    cd /koha/
23:51 bess     ok
23:51 chris    grep -r "Redirect" *
23:52 chris    brb, crying son, just checking if my wife needs a hand
23:52 bess     nothing that looks like our culprit:
23:52 bess     ok
23:52 bess     production/intranet/cgi-bin/misc/Install.pm:   Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$opacport/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl
23:52 bess     production/intranet/cgi-bin/misc/Install.pm:   Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$intranetport/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl
23:52 bess     production/cvsrepo/koha_dev_week/misc/Install.pm:   Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$opacport/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl
23:53 bess     production/cvsrepo/koha_dev_week/misc/Install.pm:   Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$intranetport/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl
23:53 bess     production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/Install.pm:   Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$opacport/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl
23:53 bess     production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/Install.pm:   Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$intranetport/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl
23:53 chris    back
23:53 chris    hmm nope those all look right
23:54 chris    ah well im afraid im stumped
23:54 chris    might have to ask kados
23:54 bess     that's okay,  you've been a huge help
23:54 bess     I'll email Josh and see if he can help me
23:54 chris    cool
23:54 bess     Thank you for taking the time,  I really appreaciate it
23:54 bess     Go spend time w/ your baby. :)
23:54 chris    cc me in if you want, i wouldnt mind knowing the answer :)
23:54 bess     okay, I will
23:55 chris    ahh its 11.54am here
23:55 bess     Ha!
23:55 chris    i have to spend time merging in changes to a clients repository :)
23:55 bess     I'm grouchy b/c I missed dinner and it's getting too dark to ride hom
23:55 bess     home
23:55 bess     stayed late at work
23:55 chris    ahhh
23:55 bess     have a good day, then!
23:55 chris    thank, have a good evening, and cya another time :)
23:55 bess     okay, bye, and thanks again
11:05 [K]      *** join #koha@FreeNode: rangi n=chris@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz
11:44 lloyd    productive meeting last night?