Time Nick Message 14:05 thd kados: are you there? 19:04 paul hello world. it's 9PM and 5 mn, am I the only one on this chanel ? 19:04 rch hi paul (nope) 19:04 cm nope, paul, you're not. :) 19:04 paul ) 19:04 paul was asking himself, of course ;-) 19:05 paul kiwis are awaken... 19:05 russel hi paul 19:05 paul hi russel 19:05 paul 'morning 19:05 russel very cold here this morning - hard to get out of bed :-) 19:06 tumer[A] hello all, long time its been 19:06 paul hi tumer. nice to see you here for the meeting 19:06 kados2 wow 19:06 kados2 sorry golks 19:06 kados2 folks even 19:06 tumer hi paul 19:06 kados2 IRC was blocked where I am currently 19:07 kados2 ryan found ircatwork.com for me, so thanks ryan 19:07 kados2 big turnout today! 19:07 tumer i am here just by coincidence, been away from library work for some time 19:08 kados2 so are we ready to get started? 19:08 kados2 maybe we can do a roll call? 19:08 ryan here! 19:08 tumer tumer present 19:08 cm cm here 19:09 sanspach sanspach lurking 19:09 russel russel is here 19:09 paul (I told him he will be 19:09 kados2 hey sanspach, long time no see 19:09 paul (sorry) 19:09 kados2 morning russ, thanks for making it so early! 19:09 kados2 still waiting for chris I take it? 19:10 kados2 http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes07jun18 19:10 kados2 there's our agenda 19:10 kados2 I put in some suggested times as wel 19:10 kados2 we will have to postpone the discussion of Git until chris gets here 19:10 tumer kados have you doubled? 19:11 russel we needed more work out of him so we cloned him 19:11 kados2 hehe 19:11 kados2 so we have some new folks here 19:11 kados2 maybe you'd be willing to introduce yourselves 19:11 kados2 bureado? 19:11 kados2 johnb, cm, kyle_ 19:12 kados2 sanspach, saorge 19:12 kados2 pecisk (don't recognise the nick) 19:12 paul and maybe newlogbot should be introduced as well ;-) 19:12 kados2 burg, tnb too i think 19:12 kados2 hehe 19:13 pecisk :)) 19:13 kados2 so if you want, tell us who you are, and your interest in Koha, and if you have any development/documentation/specification/translation skills, etc. 19:13 kados2 or other things you'd like to do on Koha 19:13 pecisk feel 19:13 cm guess i'm the only one paying attention from ccfls... don't know where johnb & kyle_ are. 19:14 kados2 (cm, and ccfls isn't really new to Koha, but maybe new to the developer's chat) 19:14 kados2 :-) 19:14 johnb I'm here 19:15 cm yeah, i'm not on here much. good news, though; we migrated our 1st & largest library to dev_week. 19:15 cm now only 8 more to go. ;) 19:15 kados2 wohoo! 19:15 cm w00t! 19:15 tumer I will be needing ILL module very soon has to be OCLC compliant, anyone working on that? 19:16 pecisk I am Linux admin and dev, I am interested in Koha from a time when I girlfriend wrote project about implementing it in local museum, unfortunately lot of real time issues blocked to realise it in real life. However, I like that Koha is here and quite advanced, as I hate proritary backend stuff which is very expensive to license and doesn't work in lot of cases anyway :) 19:16 thd cm: what are the ccfls? 19:16 kados2 chris: welcome 19:16 cm crawford county federated library system, in northwestern pennsylvania 19:16 kados2 pecisk: welcome to Koha 19:17 pecisk thanks :) 19:17 kados2 ok, well don't want to force anyone else to announce themselves 19:17 kados2 so we'll move on 19:17 kados2 news from developers? 19:17 kados2 I will start 19:17 pecisk I could do translating and testing, but not much developer time for now, but I hope for more in future 19:18 thd kados2: asking is not forcing 19:18 kados2 last IRC meeting I announced that Liblime was hiring chris, mason and russ from Katipo 19:18 kados2 so this time, I'm announcing that transition is completed 19:18 kados2 and also, the big news everyone heard on the list already, we have Koha Project Day every week now 19:19 kados2 it will be on Sunday/Monday (Sunday for the US office, Monday for the NZ one) 19:19 toins_ good point 19:19 kados2 pecisk, great! 19:19 kados2 paul, do you have some news from France? 19:20 paul yes, one that I alreday have mailed to koha-devel : 2 libraries are running Koha 3.0 live 19:20 paul one with zebra, one without. 19:20 kados2 very cool 19:20 paul we have open suivi.paulpoulain.com to track bugs. 19:20 paul it's mantis, a bugzilla like, but it's in french, so easier for frenchies to fill. 19:20 kados2 neat 19:21 paul and that will be our customer entry point for requests. 19:21 cm we've been using mantis too. very handy. 19:21 paul another one : SAN-OP just published their RFP for a new acquisition module. we will answer, of course ;-) 19:22 paul a last one : we should have a new large public library, in New Caledonia, switching to Koha in 2007 (half the size of SAN-OP / NPL) 19:22 kados2 fantastic paul 19:22 kados2 anyone else with some news? 19:23 tumer i have a zip file for Windows with rel TG 19:23 tumer it instalss all modules perl 19:23 kados2 wow, that sounds great tumer 19:23 tumer zebra,sql in 3 minutes 19:23 kados2 !! 19:23 paul wow... I can't believe it ! 19:23 thd tumer: can I build your release completely from that? 19:23 tumer ready to download at http://library.neu.edu.tr/cgi-bbin/koha/opac-downlodas 19:24 toins_ 404 not found... 19:24 tumer it bulds all necessary files already downloaded 86 times 19:24 ryan downlodas ? 19:25 ryan downloads ? 19:25 tumer the result is The Parliament library of Turkey wants us to install it (big library) 19:25 tumer doing it next month 19:25 kados2 cool tumer 19:25 ryan nice 19:26 thd tumer: when is the Turkish national library switching to Koha? 19:26 tumer http://library.neu.edu.tr/cg-bin/koha/opac-downloads.pl but instructions in Turkish 19:26 kados2 ok, we have a big agenda 19:26 kados2 so lets move on 19:26 kados2 we'll skip git details until chris gets here 19:27 kados2 except to say that LibLime have been using git internally 19:27 tumer is it any good? 19:27 ryan we like it 19:27 tumer cool 19:27 kados2 the way koha version control works now it's very inefficient 19:28 kados2 we all run off of one 'stable' CVS branch 19:28 kados2 so every time someone commits something 19:28 kados2 it could break something else 19:28 kados2 with git, that won't happen 19:28 kados2 each person can have version control, and send notices to the RM when a new feature is ready 19:28 kados2 (similar to a commit, but doesn't affect the RM's version) 19:29 kados2 the RM can then branch, pull in the changes, test, and merge with the main tree 19:30 kados2 this will require the RM to be involved in every commit 19:30 kados2 which will improve our QA as well 19:30 kados2 if the RM doesn't have time, he can delegate the task to others 19:30 kados2 who he trusts to make the decisions 19:32 kados2 any questions/concerns/comments? 19:32 thd kados2: are local repositories only available locally or are they distributed under git? 19:32 paul yes, I have one ! 19:32 kados2 thd: we can still have a main project repo 19:32 kados2 thd: and each developer can have their own repo 19:33 paul how will we decide to switch to git and how will we manage the CVS => git move ? 19:34 kados2 good question 19:34 kados2 s 19:34 kados2 I was hoping we could decide today to switch 19:34 kados2 the CVS=>git transition can be handled by ryan, chris and I 19:34 kados2 along with documentation on how to use the new setup 19:35 paul how will that work (the transition) ? 19:35 thd kados2: how does git differ from the GNU project which starts with an 'a' 19:35 kados2 how to decide: I think it's all about concensus among the people who write code in CVS 19:35 kados2 thd: git is what the linux kernel uses for version control 19:35 kados2 paul: chris can tell us best 19:35 paul so, the SAN-OP is the only one missing unless i'm missing someone 19:36 kados2 paul: yes, but they don't write much code, do they? 19:36 paul anyway, if I have directions to help me start, I'm OK to move. 19:36 kados2 and we can have a CVS front-end 19:36 paul right, but they synch their version with the HEAD one 19:36 kados2 so for people that only want to use CVS, it's OK 19:37 paul with a cvs branch being managed by 1 git local repository (not sure to use the correct terms...) 19:37 paul ? 19:37 thd kados2: there is a gnu CVS version control system which starts with an ''a'. How does git differ? 19:37 kados2 thd I don't know what that is 19:38 kados2 thd: http://git.or.cz/ 19:38 ryan paul: right, your repo will be master for rel_2_2 , and kados' for head 19:38 paul ryan: ok, understood, thx 19:38 kados2 we will also still have a web version history 19:38 kados2 it has better views than savannah currently has 19:39 kados2 and we can still have an email list for commits 19:39 paul my other question was about how to have an easy to access source code. I think this is the answer ;-) 19:39 paul what is a "commit" under git ? 19:39 paul when someone want to tell ppl that something is available on it's repository ? 19:40 ryan a commit will generate an email, or the committer might post to koha-devel 19:40 ryan then everyone will pull changes to their repos 19:40 paul I prefer an automatic email, to be sure not to forget ;-) 19:41 kados2 you can also 'push' to a shared repository 19:41 kados2 chris has been planning how it should work, and considering as well how each library/company will want their own repo 19:41 kados2 ok, so if there are no objections 19:42 kados2 we will plan this soon 19:42 paul none from me (except that I hope we will find enough time to learn git & other git tools ...) 19:42 kados2 and chris will be writing a mail soon explaining the process 19:42 paul do you also use cogito & other git related tools ? 19:42 kados2 (not me, but I think other LLers have played with it) 19:42 ryan cogito has largely become a part of git proper 19:43 paul part of git proper ??? 19:43 paul a part of git itself you mean ? 19:43 ryan yes 19:43 ryan it's very easy to use 19:43 ryan you will like it :) 19:43 kados2 ok, so I have another item under 'Koha 3.0 release plan' 19:43 kados2 1st item is that I propose we move to git :-) 19:44 kados2 2nd is that I propose to move to time-based releases, starting immediately 19:44 tumer seconded 19:44 paul time based releases ? I fully agree with this idea... 19:44 kados2 the proposal is release 6 times a year 19:44 tumer time-based? 19:44 kados2 three types of releases 19:44 kados2 alpha, beta, stable 19:44 paul we say "it will be available at this date, we will see with what features" 19:45 kados2 so a new release every two months 19:45 kados2 July - Beta 19:45 kados2 Sept - Stable 19:45 kados2 Nov - Alpha 19:45 kados2 Jan - beta 19:45 kados2 Mar - Stable 19:45 kados2 etc. 19:45 paul feature based release : "it will be able when those features will be included, whatever the date" 19:45 kados2 until now, with 3.0 it has ben impossible, because it wasn't stable at all 19:46 kados2 but we can do a beta now 19:46 paul so your proposal is to completly change our release theory ? 19:46 kados2 (in July) 19:46 thd what does time based release mean exactly? 19:46 kados2 and get feedback, and then a stable in sept 19:47 kados2 I am proposing a change in the release theory, yes 19:47 kados2 three types of releases 19:47 kados2 alpha - maybe some bugs, please test 19:47 kados2 beta - most bugs fixed, we think it's stable, please test 19:47 paul what if a bug appears in a sept-stable version, that is discovered in, say, november ? 19:47 kados2 stable - tested, in production at some places 19:48 kados2 I think that we release the stable version with the bug fix 19:48 paul + are you speaking of public releases ? 19:48 kados2 paul, yes public releases 19:48 kados2 so we have say 2.2.10 19:48 kados2 then, a bug is found 19:48 kados2 so we do 2.2.10b 19:48 kados2 with only the bug fix 19:48 thd paul: is not issuing a new release the same as happens now? 19:49 kados2 paul (git will make this easier) 19:49 paul thd : ??? 19:49 kados2 paul: (as you know for 2.2, this is quite hard ) 19:49 paul right. It is harder because, as 3.0 was long to come, some ppl have added feature to rel_2_2 ... 19:49 kados2 right 19:50 thd paul: I mean how would issuing a bug fix release be any different? 19:50 paul what I wanted to propose was to have : 19:50 paul - 2.2 branch, strictly bugfixes 19:50 paul - 2.4 branch, based on 2.2+liblime additions (serials, barcode printing, and some others) 19:51 paul - 3.0 branch, based on head. 19:51 kados2 hmmm 19:51 kados2 I would prefer only two: 19:51 kados2 2.2 branch, based on 2.2+liblime additions 19:51 kados2 3.0 branch, based on head 19:52 kados2 (liblime editions I think also include mysql 5 support by the way) 19:52 kados2 (which is necessary even for 2.2, as many people have trouble with 2.2 because they have mysql 5) 19:52 paul you're right. except your additions have been done on npl templates, and we couldn't test them deeply, even if I asked toins to port them to default templates) 19:53 paul so, in france, I have problems with this branch. 19:53 kados2 right 19:53 thd paul: now that Etch is stable I think that 2.2 should have MySQL 5 support 19:53 kados2 ok 19:53 kados2 I will have LL team add to default then 19:53 thd paul: what problems do you have in France with 2.4? 19:53 kados2 it will be less work in the long run 19:54 kados2 to get them working with both templates 19:54 kados2 than to have two branches and another release to manage 19:54 kados2 paul: is that OK? 19:54 paul thd : right. I tried to port mySQL5.0 to 2.2.x, I may have missed some, but a large part of the stuff should be OK 19:54 paul kados2 : yes, i'm OK. 19:54 kados2 great 19:54 kados2 so we have decided: 19:55 kados2 1. moving to git 19:55 paul (even if I'll have to investigate & test your additions anyway, for my customers ;-) ) 19:55 kados2 2. time-based releases: every two months, alpha, beta, stable 19:55 kados2 3. LL will commit to default templates, and we will not have a 2.4, but stay with 2.2 19:55 kados2 wow, very productive meeting :-) 19:55 paul about 2. : 19:56 paul how will we handle major new features that could not be done in just 6 months ? 19:56 paul (git will help us will be the answer i think ;-) ) 19:56 kados2 yes :-) 19:56 kados2 they can be created on a branch 19:56 kados2 and merged when they are ready 19:56 russel and how will we handle when two teams are working on a similar feature at the same time? 19:57 kados2 russel: good question 19:57 russel i am thinking of ACQ which everyone seems to want to have a crack at 19:57 kados2 acquisitions is a good example 19:57 kados2 snap 19:57 paul right. 19:57 kados2 paul: some news: we have a large academic library that we have worked with to define some new acquisitions features 19:57 paul yes, you already told me. 19:58 kados2 we could: 19:58 kados2 1. examine each other's specifications, and decide who will work on what, etc. 19:58 kados2 2. have two comletely different acquisitions modules 19:59 paul 1 = maybe, but will require a big coordination, and SAN-OP want something live for 2008, jan 19:59 paul 2 = would be a shame 19:59 kados2 yep 19:59 thd Is either looking for a full accounting system? 19:59 kados2 thd: yes, ours is 19:59 paul not for us 20:00 kados2 I think #2 is the only way for acquisitions 20:00 ryan i like the idea of modularizing the modules. 20:00 thd I have a suggestion for full accounting 20:00 paul (maybe you can explain what you call "full accounting system") ? 20:00 ryan so an acqisitions module can be 'installed' into koha 20:00 kados2 ryan: yea 20:00 paul because in france, public structure accounting software are very specific, proprietary, expensive, user-unfriendly, ... 20:01 johnb We had this conversation in France. Due to everyones accounting quirks wouldn't it be best to make ACQ a plugin? 20:01 paul maybe/probably 20:01 thd paul: everything you might expect to manage all parts of a libraries budget control and payments 20:01 paul so, definetly : NO speaking of SAN-OP plans. 20:01 russel ok so step back from ACQ for a sec 20:01 russel bigger picture 20:01 thd s/libraries/library's/ 20:02 russel how do we manage when two sets of developers are working on similar features at the same time? 20:02 kados2 russel: depends on what you mean by 'manage' 20:03 tumer 1. declare your intention of developing a module 20:03 russel or are we just going to have to reconcile that there will be duplicated effort from time to time? 20:03 thd I think there is a namespace concern if they may not be compatible 20:03 tumer 2. discuss with other interested parties 20:03 tumer 3. share work 20:03 kados2 russel: I think tumer's right, we need to be better about declaring our intentions on the koha-devel channel 20:03 russel tumer++ 20:03 russel i dont think we do enough of that is my concern 20:04 kados2 russel: I completely agree 20:04 cm perhaps use a centralized tasklist on the wiki or somesuch? 20:04 paul I don't remember having added a major feature without warning on koha-dev before. So it's not a big job ;-) 20:04 russel well when do you give the warning? 20:04 russel when you start working on it 20:04 tumer paul you war that you added not adding? 20:04 kados2 paul: we have announced major features, but we haven't really been good about defining them ahead of time 20:04 russel or just before you commit it? 20:05 paul speaking of major additions, I share before writing them. 20:05 kados2 so maybe we need to: 20:05 kados2 1. announce the new feature 20:05 russel paul: that is a good policy 20:05 paul anyway, we should agree on what is a "major addition" ;-) 20:05 kados2 2. release specifications 20:06 kados2 part of the problem is, until now, many of the core devs haven't had time to read other people's specifications 20:06 kados2 because we are too busy with our own specifications :-) 20:06 kados2 but I can say, that is changing at LibLime 20:06 russel i think it is getting to the stage where we all need to make the time 20:06 kados2 esp with the new Koha Project Jay 20:06 kados2 Day even 20:06 kados2 rusel: exactly 20:07 paul a second part of the problem is that our customers want answers in french, and you don't speak french very well :-D 20:07 kados2 hehe 20:07 russel well i have been talking to Irma in sydney, she has offered to help translate this type of thing 20:07 ryan a defined process for public review of specs before implementation ? 20:07 ryan or is that too restrictive ? 20:07 paul for example, i've written a 33 pages doc about all koha 3.0 new features... waiting for translation... 20:07 paul (irma will do at least a part of the job it seems) 20:08 kados2 right 20:08 cm paul: i'll do it if noone else wants to. ;) 20:08 thd kados2: GnuArch is the Savannah supported distributed version control system of which I was thinking as comparable maybe more featurefull than git 20:09 kados2 thd: we looked at arch a while back 20:09 kados2 thd: 2.0.x had some arch repos in fact 20:09 kados2 ok, getting back 20:09 kados2 to the topic at hand 20:10 kados2 what we need I think 20:10 kados2 is to get more users involved 20:10 kados2 in the development process 20:10 kados2 people who work for libraries 20:11 kados2 we need to find some libraries who can directly devote staff time to koha IMO 20:11 thd kados2: the problem is that having you library vendor ask for volunteers is lack asking to be payed twice for support 20:11 kados2 thd: not really 20:11 russel well they probably are devoting a lot of time to koha, but internally 20:12 kados2 thd: because we don't get paid for things related to the project 20:12 kados2 thd: libraries want to pay as little as possible to us, so they just pay for the specific services we provide, like hosting, data migration, development 20:12 thd kados2: I mean as compared to being asked by a foundation 20:13 thd the request will always sound better coming from a foundation 20:13 sanspach russel: exactly --the key is coordinating things so that their internal work can be made to work for testing and vice versa 20:13 paul i've forgotten a french news !!! 20:13 paul french koha NPO exist !!! 20:13 paul www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr 20:14 paul www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/ 20:14 paul search "kohala" 20:14 kados2 wow, great paul! 20:14 kados2 paul: johnb has organized a meeting at ALA this year (in about a week) 20:15 paul the "we need to find some libraries who can directly devote staff time to koha IMO" reminds me this... 20:15 kados2 paul: to discuss a US one 20:15 kados2 yep 20:15 paul yes, i've seen the announce 20:15 kados2 I still think, those are just 'users groups' 20:15 kados2 I'm not sure they are the same as a 'koha software foundation' 20:15 kados2 I've been looking at plone as a model: plone.org 20:15 kados2 they have a foundation 20:16 kados2 and it's worked quite well for them 20:16 kados2 but anyway, this is off track 20:16 kados2 and I have a meeting in 15 minutes :( 20:16 kados2 to touch on some points: 20:17 kados2 we don't need to move the IRC channel, we can 'relay' to freenode to increase visibility 20:17 paul 'relay' ??? 20:17 kados2 a bot can relay messages from irc.freenode.net #koha to irc.katipo.co.nz #koha and back 20:17 kados2 we tested it last week 20:17 kados2 and it works fine 20:18 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: toins n=toins@AMarseille-251-1-59-126.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr 20:18 paul ok. so any of those both chanel are equivalent ? 20:18 kados2 hi toins at freenode :-) 20:18 toins_ hehe 20:18 kados2 paul: yes 20:18 kados2 ok, I'm going out of order 20:18 ryan problem is there's no /who 20:19 kados2 perhaps we will skip 'copyright conventions' and leave that for the next meeting when slef is here 20:19 paul I think the koha-dev thread was clear. 20:19 kados2 the koha-dev thread had some ideas, but no conclusions :-) 20:19 kados2 everyone had a different idea IIRC 20:20 paul Ouch. Surely that could be replaced by the shorter: 20:20 paul # Copyright 2000-2007 Katipo Communications 20:20 paul # Copyright 2002-2007 Paul Poulain 20:20 paul # Copyright 2004-2007 LibLime 20:20 paul sounds fair 20:20 thd there is a big problem with that form of notice 20:21 ryan i think the code should reference an external document. 20:21 kados2 ryan: that's my thinking lately too 20:21 thd any one of those parties may be able to make a claim on the whole work 20:22 kados2 I have only 10 minutes now 20:22 thd kados2 what else is on the agenda aside from copyright? 20:22 kados2 I think we should skip 'improving koha.org' because IIRC tina was going to show something and it's not ready yet 20:22 kados2 so we have two items left: 20:22 kados2 Open Positions in the Community 20:22 kados2 OpenCataloger 20:23 russel you prolly have enough time for one :-) go with OpenCataloger would be my pick 20:23 kados2 hehe 20:23 russel move copyright and positions to next meeting 20:23 tumer seconded 20:23 kados2 russel: sounds good 20:23 russel cos those will require lots of discussion 20:24 kados2 https://gna.org/projects/opencataloger 20:24 kados2 that's the project paul and toins created 20:25 kados2 and a new developer has joined the effort, it's the Google Summer of Code programmer Chris Catalfo 20:25 thd I have a concern that the design of opencataloger not dilute the quality and usability of the plugins 20:25 kados2 there's a mailing list too 20:26 kados2 toins has already done a ton of work on this 20:26 kados2 maybe toins can talk about it briefly? 20:26 toins_ humm.... 20:27 kados2 (maybe at the same time as toins is talking, everyone can say if this is a good time to meet in two weeks from now) 20:27 toins_ opencataloger is a web based application written in XUL/Javascript for the client side and perl for server side 20:27 kados2 (Monday, July 2nd) 20:27 kados2 (so we can finish the agenda?) 20:27 thd good for me 20:28 cm yep, good for ccfls folks too. 20:28 toins_ its tries to let the cataloger free to do what he wants 20:28 paul july 2nd is OK for me 20:28 ryan ++ 20:29 toins_ it s a marc editor for advanced cataloger 20:29 toins_ what more ? Except as kados2 has certainly notify, it not work very well atm 20:30 kados2 it works well, except for saving :-) 20:30 toins_ its can searchs on multiple Z3950 server 20:30 toins_ edit records 20:30 toins_ classify them on an 'finish reservoir' and 'unfinish reservoir' 20:30 kados2 Chris plans to have it working and ready for production by the end of the summer 20:31 thd toins_ it is actually much more efficient than the existing Koha record editor independent of experience 20:31 kados2 alng with toins help of course 20:31 toins_ currently only saveToKoha22.pl works well 20:31 ryan toins_++ 20:32 kados2 ok, I have to go now 20:32 kados2 thanks everyone 20:32 paul you"re welcome 20:32 kados2 sorry, my travel plans were unexpected 20:32 paul time to go to bed for frenchies 20:32 kados2 it won't happen next time, I promise :-) 20:32 kados2 (but probably ok anyway, to keep meetings short) 20:32 kados2 I'll write a summary 20:32 kados2 and mail to koha-devel 20:32 kados2 and announce the next meeting 20:32 kados2 bye 20:32 toins_ bye 21:52 bureado kados: 22:07 chris heya bess 22:07 bess hi! 22:08 bess wow, there's quite a few people in here 22:08 bess is everyone koha developers or admins? 22:08 chris not everyone but a few of us are 22:08 bess can I ask some koha zoom installation questions? 22:08 chris there are some koha users too .. and people asleep :) 22:09 chris sure 22:09 chris I may or may not be able to answer it :) 22:09 bess so, I'm following the installation instructions... 22:09 chris on the wiki? 22:09 bess I'm following the ones can came with the installation package that kados sent me. 22:09 bess Is there a better set on the wiki? 22:10 bess maybe I should try those 22:10 bess What is the url? 22:10 dewey the url is, like, http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/ 22:10 chris ahh kados sent you some ... those are probably better 22:10 bess hmmm... that url doesn't work dewey 22:10 chris the wiki ones are old 22:10 chris dewey is a bot :) 22:10 chris http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=installingzebraplugin226 22:10 bess ah! 22:11 bess so, is koha zoom the same thing as koha 2.2.6? 22:11 chris nope 22:11 bess hi, chris!! Yes, I'm bess sadler 22:12 bess wow, that's cool. :) 22:12 chris koha zoom hasnt had a public release yet 22:12 bess okay, so I'm trying to install koha zoom 22:12 bess are the installation instructions that come with it the right ones to use? 22:12 chris yep, so koha zoom is koha 2.2.x plus the Zebra plugin 22:12 bess ah, okay, making more sense. 22:13 chris if kados sent them, id assume so :) 22:13 bess yes, but he sent them over a month ago 22:13 bess I'm very behind on the project I'm working on 22:13 chris we havent managed to build an easy to install release for koha zoom 22:13 bess right. 22:13 bess See, I'm trying to get you funding to do that. :) 22:13 chris hence no public release 22:13 bess Do you know about library-in-a-box? 22:13 chris but the code is all in cvs 22:13 chris sure do 22:14 chris i heard you talking with talis about it :) 22:14 bess okay, so this is me trying to get it installed so I can report back to the soros foundation 22:14 chris righto 22:14 bess really? you heard that podcast. Cool? 22:14 chris yep 22:14 bess okay, so, something weird... 22:14 chris fire away 22:14 bess Warning: DocumentRoot [/koha/production/intranet/htdocs] does not exist 22:14 bess Warning: DocumentRoot [/koha/production/opac/htdocs] does not exist 22:14 bess And sure enough, they don't exist. 22:15 bess Or, to be more accurate... 22:15 chris ah ha 22:15 bess cgi-bin -> ../rel_3_0/koha/ 22:15 bess and there is nothing in rel_3_0/koha 22:15 chris do joshuas instructions include setting up the symlinks? 22:15 bess no 22:15 chris hmm 22:15 bess there is a symlink 22:15 bess but it links to an empty directory 22:16 bess which seems problematic to me. 22:16 chris thats helpful :) 22:16 bess :) 22:16 chris yeah thats not gonna work :) 22:16 bess so did the CVS checkout not work completely? 22:16 bess maybe? 22:16 chris could be 22:17 chris id have to see the instructions 22:17 bess so there is supposed to be stuff in that folder, yes? 22:17 bess What's your email? 22:17 bess I'll send them to you 22:17 chris crc@liblime.com 22:17 bess hang on... 22:18 chris ta 22:19 bess okay, I just sent them off 22:19 chris cool 22:20 chris right ill quickly read through them 22:20 bess okay, thanks 22:20 bess brb 22:22 bess I'm back 22:22 chris still reading :) 22:22 bess take your time 22:24 chris hmm 22:24 chris so you have a /koha dir 22:25 bess yes 22:25 chris which should have production/ testing/ bin and cron under it ? 22:25 bess hang on.. 22:26 bess trying to get my screen arranged so I can type and look at the text window 22:26 chris righto :) 22:26 chris oh and log and etc 22:27 bess yes, /koha has backups bin cron etc log production testing and tmp 22:27 chris right 22:27 chris hmm 22:28 chris and in /koha/production/intranet 22:28 chris there is a symlink to a non existing dir? 22:28 chris and no htdocs? 22:28 bess cgi-bin -> ../rel_3_0/koha/ 22:28 bess htdocs -> ../rel_3_0/koha/koha-tmpl 22:28 chris ok 22:29 bess modules 22:29 chris i think we can fix this 22:29 chris if we do 22:29 chris cd /koha/production/cvsrepo/ 22:29 bess ok 22:30 chris in there is there a koha/ dir ? 22:30 bess y 22:30 bess hmmm... C4 22:30 bess that's one of my missing directories 22:30 chris and thats our cvs checkout 22:30 bess so is installer 22:30 chris yeah 22:30 chris now what i dont understand is 22:31 chris is why cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha 22:31 chris ahhh i do understand 22:32 bess yes? 22:32 chris he has modified the instustions for koha 3.0 .. but not all the way 22:32 bess ah 22:33 chris can we do a rm -r koha (in /koha/production/cvsrepo/ ) 22:33 bess sure 22:33 bess done 22:33 chris and we will then checkout the dev_week (which is koha zoom) 22:34 bess how do I do that? 22:34 chris cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -r dev_week -P koha 22:35 chris in that directory 22:35 bess from /koha/production/cvsrepo? 22:35 chris thats the one 22:35 chris once thats done we can make or symlinks to the right places 22:35 bess it's downloading 22:35 chris our even 22:35 bess :) 22:36 bess okay, done 22:36 chris speedy 22:36 bess yes, I'm at the uni. :) 22:36 chris much faster than over here to nz 22:36 bess where are you? NZ? 22:36 chris yep 22:36 bess cool. 22:36 chris wellington 22:36 chris ok 22:36 bess I've always wanted to go there 22:37 bess ok, what next? 22:37 chris lets go to /koha/production/intranet 22:37 bess ok 22:37 chris and our htdocs symlink should be htdocs -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/koha-tmpl/ 22:38 bess done: htdocs -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/koha-tmpl 22:38 chris cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/ 22:38 bess done: cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha 22:39 chris now what i do here 22:39 bess what about modules/C4? 22:39 bess same thing, yes? 22:39 chris -> /koha/prodcution/cvsrepo/koha/C4/ 22:39 chris yep 22:40 bess okay, done 22:40 chris righto 22:40 chris you got all the perl modules installed, and zebra up and running eh? 22:40 bess yes 22:41 chris in theory .. it might be working now :) 22:41 chris we may have to restart apache 22:41 bess restarting.... 22:41 bess hmm... not yet 22:42 bess The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server. 22:42 bess http://lab3.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl 22:42 chris hmm i wonder if he did want you to install koha 3 .. not zoom 22:43 bess I'm still not clear on the distinction 22:43 bess What URL should I go to? 22:43 chris heres what we can do 22:43 bess could there be a problem w/ my httpd config? 22:44 chris no, its fine 22:44 bess I wasn't sure how to setup the virtualhosts, so I just took a guess based on how my other server is set up. 22:44 chris what is confusing me is saying Koha ZOOm but the instructions seem to be for 3.0 (which is the upcoming release ... ok i have a plan) 22:44 bess ok 22:44 chris lets cd back to /koha/production/cvsrepo 22:45 chris mv koha koha_dev_week 22:45 bess ok 22:45 chris cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha 22:45 chris (we will check out 3.0 this time) 22:45 bess ok 22:45 chris our symlinks should all still be good 22:45 bess 3.0 is the upcoming release, right? 22:45 chris yep 22:46 bess drat! no joy. :( 22:46 chris still the same error? 22:46 bess The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server. 22:46 chris hmm 22:47 bess hang on... 22:47 bess something is fishy 22:47 chris what does ls /koha/production/intranet/cgi-bin/ say ? 22:47 chris is there an installer dir there? 22:48 bess yes 22:48 bess I think maybe apache is cacheing something 22:48 chris ok and in our httpd.conf 22:48 chris we have 22:48 bess do you want the whole thing? 22:48 chris ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/koha/ /koha/production/intranet/cgi-bin/ 22:48 chris ? 22:49 bess in httpd.conf or in /koha/etc/koha-production-httpd.conf? 22:49 chris sorry the latter 22:50 bess no, we have ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/koha/ "/koha/production/opac/cgi-bin/" 22:50 chris hmm do we have 2 virtualhosts 22:50 chris one for opac one for intranet? 22:50 bess well, I didn't know how to set them up. 22:50 bess So, maybe I didn't do it right 22:50 bess NameVirtualHost *:80 22:51 chris you could email me that file if you wanted 22:51 chris might be easier 22:51 chris and i can edit and send back? 22:51 bess it's already on the way :) 22:51 chris :) 22:53 bess okay, it took me a second to get it sent off 22:53 bess I realized I can't send mail from the actual server 22:53 chris ahh bummer 22:53 bess it's on the way now 22:53 chris koha wont be able to send you overdue notices :-) 22:53 bess good point 22:54 bess I finally got the university to cough up a debian server 22:54 bess we run red hat here and boy was that a fiasco, trying to install this on red hat 22:54 chris yeah its been done, but its not easy .. these are all things we have to overcome to get a nice public release 22:54 chris ok .. so this looks ok to me 22:55 bess but what about the second virtualhost? 22:55 chris the url you are hitting is productionintranet right? 22:55 bess I don't understand the question 22:55 bess the hostname of the server is lab3.betech.virginia.edu 22:55 chris ah ha 22:56 bess I'm missing a vital concept, aren't i? 22:56 chris :) 22:56 chris yeah that will take you to the opac 22:56 bess so how do I get to the other? 22:56 bess it says ServerName productionintranet 22:56 bess I see that now 22:56 chris yeah 22:56 bess how should I change it? 22:57 bess I mean, we don't have anything called productionintranet registered w/ DNS 22:57 chris now is it possible to get a nice person who looks after your dns is 22:57 chris to set up 22:57 chris opac.lab3.betech.virginia.edu 22:57 chris and 22:57 bess Oh, I have an alias! 22:57 chris staff.lab3.betech.virginia.edu 22:58 bess koha.betech.virginia.edu 22:58 bess will that do? 22:58 chris then you can change the servernames 22:58 chris sure lets try that 22:58 bess lab3.betech.virginia.edu = koha.betech.virginia.edu 22:58 chris change the productionintranet to be koha.betech.virginia.edu 22:58 dewey chris: that doesn't look right 22:59 chris ssh dewey 22:59 bess ServerName koha.betech.virginia.edu 22:59 bess for the intranet 22:59 chris yep 22:59 bess is that right? 22:59 chris and restart apache 22:59 bess restarting... 22:59 chris and in theory 22:59 chris koha.betech.virginia.edu = intranet 22:59 chris lab3.betech.virginia.edu = opac 23:00 bess dammit 23:00 bess same error 23:00 bess The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server. 23:00 chris still defaulting to the opac? 23:00 bess http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl 23:00 chris hmm 23:01 chris ok 23:01 bess How should the top part of the file be? 23:01 bess oh wait! 23:01 chris is there any other error in the main apache2 error log? 23:01 bess Yes, I broke the top part of the file, and when I changed it back it started working! 23:01 chris yay 23:01 bess NameVirtualHost * 23:01 bess that's what it should say 23:02 bess I changed it to NameVirtualHost *:80 23:02 bess because that's how our other apache configs are setup 23:02 bess but look, it gives a warning when you restart apache: 23:02 chris cool, and now its happy? koha->intranet lab3->opac ? 23:02 bess Forcing reload of web server (apache2)...[Mon Jun 18 10:58:57 2007] [warn] NameVirtualHost *:0 has no VirtualHosts 23:03 chris yeah we can ignore that i think 23:03 bess I don't know, I haven't run the installer yet. 23:03 bess What's the login / pass? 23:03 bess Is it the mysql? 23:03 chris ahh whatever you set up in your koha.xml 23:03 chris and used when you made your database 23:03 bess I didn't change it 23:03 bess hang on... 23:04 bess oh wait 23:04 bess so I'm looking at /production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/koha.xml 23:04 bess yes? 23:05 chris ahh /koha/etc/ 23:05 chris i there i think 23:05 bess okay, hang on 23:05 chris koha-production.xml in there 23:06 bess kohaadmin / K0h4R0ck$ 23:06 bess right? 23:06 bess but it doesn't work 23:06 chris hmm is there another one further down 23:06 chris actually when you did this step 23:06 bess yes, that's the one 23:06 bess kohaadmin / PASSWORD 23:07 chris does that work? 23:07 bess yes 23:07 chris cool 23:07 bess creating database tables (this is so exciting to get this far!) 23:07 chris :) 23:07 bess dammit!! 23:07 bess The following error occcurred while importing the database structure: 23:07 chris i havent done a 3.0 install .. so from here is all new to me 23:08 bess Unknown suffix '-' used for variable 'port' (value '-u') 23:08 bess mysql: Error while setting value '-u' to 'port' 23:08 chris ahh that looks like a bug in the installer 23:08 bess "Please contact your system administrator" <--- so helpful! :) 23:08 chris heh 23:08 bess so this must be happening in install.pl, right? 23:08 chris does the error log tell you anything 23:09 chris if it does and it has a linenumber i can go inspect the code 23:09 chris and maybe fix, then a cvs update should sort you out 23:09 bess Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /koha/production/intranet/cgi 23:09 bess in/installer/install.pl line 339., referer: http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=3 23:10 chris ahh thats a warn, we can ignore that one 23:10 bess that's the only error 23:10 chris darn 23:10 chris ill have a quick look 23:10 bess how do you know it's a warn? 23:10 chris use of uniinitialzed value is always a warn 23:11 bess oh 23:11 chris ok 23:12 chris in ur koha-production.xml file 23:12 bess yes? 23:12 chris is there a hostname line? 23:12 bess hang on 23:13 bess yes. localhost 23:13 chris k 23:13 bess that should be right 23:15 chris yep 23:15 bess my $str = qx(mysql -h $info{hostname} -P $info{port} -u $info{user} -p$info{password} $info{dbname} <$filename 2>&1); 23:15 bess I bet there is no value for port 23:15 chris yeah 23:15 chris good spotting 23:15 bess That would make that line read as -P -u username 23:15 bess which would throw that error 23:15 chris yep 23:16 bess there's no place to set port in the koha.xml file 23:16 chris right 23:16 chris and if we look at the koha.xml in our cvs repo .. is there one there? 23:16 bess hang on 23:16 chris if so, we can copy and paste it ,.. and see if that fixes it 23:17 bess where would that be? 23:17 chris /production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/koha.xml 23:19 bess no 23:19 bess can I just hack it and put in 3306? 23:19 chris sure lets try that :) 23:20 bess my $str = qx(mysql -h $info{hostname} -P 3306 -u $info{user} -p$info{password} $info{dbname} <$filename 2>&1); 23:21 bess Database tables created 23:21 bess :) 23:22 bess i'm installing all the optional stuff... 23:22 bess hope that's okay 23:23 chris your guess is as good as mine a this point :) 23:25 bess everything worked except importing authorities 23:25 chris ahh 23:25 bess Congratulations, Installation complete 23:26 bess whatever that means. :) 23:26 chris yippy skippy 23:26 chris i wonder what happens when you hit http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/ 23:26 chris or lab3. 23:27 bess lab3.betech.virginia.edu redirects me to http://lab3.betech.virginia.edu/apache2-default/ 23:27 bess which just says: It works! 23:27 bess apache default 23:28 chris ah we may have to do some more apache config trickery maybe put that as the servername 23:28 chris in the opac 23:28 chris does the koha. one get you into the intranet/librarian interface? 23:29 bess no 23:29 bess it redirects me to http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=3 23:29 bess apache config weirdness, you think? 23:29 chris hmmm i thought it said we were finished 23:29 bess it did 23:29 chris :) 23:30 bess but then it reloaded the page automatically and we were back at http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=3 23:30 chris ok does http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl work? 23:30 bess and if I go to http://koha.betech.virginia.edu it takes me there too 23:30 bess it redirects to the same place! weird. 23:31 chris that is weird 23:31 chris lemme look at that config again 23:31 bess want me to send you the updated one? 23:32 chris hmm doesnt seem to be any redirects in there 23:33 chris is there a .htaccess file in /koha/production/intranet/cgi-bin ? 23:33 bess yes 23:33 bess ErrorDocument 400 /cgi-bin/koha/koha-tmpl/errors/400.pl 23:33 bess several ErrorDocument declarations 23:33 chris *nod* 23:33 chris any Redirect ones? 23:34 bess no, only the ErrorDocument lines 23:34 chris ok 23:34 bess should I bug Kados about this? 23:34 chris how bout /koha/production/intranet/htdocs ? 23:34 bess You're being so helpful, but I worry that I'm taking up all of your time 23:35 bess no .htaccess file there 23:35 chris we'll give it 10 more mins :) 23:35 bess ok, thanks. :) 23:35 chris hmm 23:35 chris i wonder where the redirect is coming from 23:36 chris lets try a brute force :) 23:36 bess wait! 23:36 bess I found a problem! 23:36 bess we updated the symlinks for the intranet, but not for the opac 23:37 bess cgi-bin -> ../rel_3_0/koha/opac 23:37 bess which doesn't exist 23:37 chris ah yep, the opac isnt going yet, (ie we end up at that apache default page) 23:37 bess I mean, I don't know if this solved our particular problem, but it's something to fix 23:37 chris yep for sure 23:37 chris lets go 23:38 bess so where do the files in /koha/production/opac point to? 23:38 chris cd /koha/ 23:38 chris grep -r "Redirect" * 23:38 chris see if we can find this redirect 23:38 bess wait, I will, but I want to fix one thing at a time 23:38 bess where do the sym links in /koha/production/opac go? 23:39 chris ahh i was leaving the opac until we get the intranet going .. but yep we can do it now we will have to change the servername to get the opac to work too 23:39 bess oh, okay that's fine, we can leave it for later 23:39 chris opac/cgi-bin goes to the same place as intranet/cgi-bin 23:39 chris same with htdocs 23:40 chris sorry i lie, 23:40 chris opac/cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/opac/ 23:40 chris opac/htdocs ->/koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/koha-tmpl/ 23:41 chris thats all of them eh? 23:41 bess yes, that's all of them 23:41 chris cool 23:41 chris and if we change ServerName to lab3. ... 23:42 chris and restart apache, hopefully we get the opac up 23:42 bess wait, change which ServerName? 23:43 chris the opac one 23:43 chris (first one) 23:43 bess it already is lab3 23:43 chris hmm 23:43 chris lets try changing 23:43 bess okay 23:43 chris <VirtualHost *:80> 23:43 chris to 23:44 chris <VirtualHost lab3.betech.virginia.edu:80> 23:44 chris for the first virtual host 23:44 bess okay 23:44 bess restarting 23:44 chris (its not quite the 8 minutes it takes me to install 2.2 :) 23:45 bess hooray! 23:45 chris we have opac? yay 23:45 bess well, not yet 23:45 bess but a different error. :) 23:45 chris heh 23:46 bess I get a list of files... favicon.ico, index.html, intranet-tmpl, intranet.html 23:46 bess if I click on index.html I get a 404 23:46 chris ahh try 23:46 bess If I click on opac.html I get The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl was not found on this server. 23:47 chris lab3.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl 23:47 chris (we have a missing redirect there, and one we dont want in the intranet :)) 23:47 bess The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl was not found on this server. 23:48 chris hmm 23:48 bess let's double check those sym links I made 23:48 chris ls /koha/production/opac/cgi-bin 23:48 chris if its not there 23:48 chris then our symlink is wrong 23:48 bess cgi-bin didn't get the symlink created 23:48 chris ah ha 23:48 bess I could have sworn I changed it 23:48 bess hang on 23:49 bess dammitt!! 23:50 chris it wont stick? 23:50 bess now it's redirecting to The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server. 23:50 bess the install.pl again! 23:50 bess Only now it tcan't find it 23:50 bess pwd = /koha/production/opac 23:50 bess cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/opac 23:51 chris thats right 23:51 chris ok theres some madness going on with this redirect 23:51 chris lets try our grep 23:51 bess okay 23:51 chris cd /koha/ 23:51 bess ok 23:51 chris grep -r "Redirect" * 23:52 chris brb, crying son, just checking if my wife needs a hand 23:52 bess nothing that looks like our culprit: 23:52 bess ok 23:52 bess production/intranet/cgi-bin/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$opacport/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl 23:52 bess production/intranet/cgi-bin/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$intranetport/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl 23:52 bess production/cvsrepo/koha_dev_week/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$opacport/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl 23:53 bess production/cvsrepo/koha_dev_week/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$intranetport/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl 23:53 bess production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$opacport/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl 23:53 bess production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$intranetport/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl 23:53 chris back 23:53 chris hmm nope those all look right 23:54 chris ah well im afraid im stumped 23:54 chris might have to ask kados 23:54 bess that's okay, you've been a huge help 23:54 bess I'll email Josh and see if he can help me 23:54 chris cool 23:54 bess Thank you for taking the time, I really appreaciate it 23:54 bess Go spend time w/ your baby. :) 23:54 chris cc me in if you want, i wouldnt mind knowing the answer :) 23:54 bess okay, I will 23:55 chris ahh its 11.54am here 23:55 bess Ha! 23:55 chris i have to spend time merging in changes to a clients repository :) 23:55 bess I'm grouchy b/c I missed dinner and it's getting too dark to ride hom 23:55 bess home 23:55 bess stayed late at work 23:55 chris ahhh 23:55 bess have a good day, then! 23:55 chris thank, have a good evening, and cya another time :) 23:55 bess okay, bye, and thanks again 11:05 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: rangi n=chris@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz 11:44 lloyd productive meeting last night?