Time Nick Message
10:45 kados :-)
10:45 hdl No he is managing a trainig and each time you beep him, client is aware ;)
10:43 kados hdl: is paul_indispo with you?
10:40 kados but i wanted to clarify what is done in rel_2_2 and rel_3_0
10:40 kados so there is a periodic cron job that updates the MARC items data (in biblioitems.marc and in Zebra)
10:37 kados because updating items in MARC is too slow during circulation
10:37 kados in dev_week, I decided that items table would be the authority on items data
10:37 kados ok
10:36 hdl (he is reading)
10:36 kados paul_indispo: are you present?
10:36 kados perhaps that is what is already done, I'm not patient enough to step through every line of the code ;-)
10:35 hdl paul_indispo
10:35 hdl I think that what could be done in not UPDATE ALL the fields in items table but ONLY those who are found in MARC.
10:35 kados hdl: do you know if paul has any opinions on this issue?
10:34 kados hdl: also, at least in rel_2_2, we don't update the MARC data on circ like we do the items table
10:34 kados hdl: for one, there aren't enough subfields in a tag to contain all the items mappings
10:33 kados hdl: because unless I'm mistaken, the MARC items data shouldn't be authoritative ...
10:33 kados hdl: we almost need a 'rebuildmarc' script to add the stuff in items to MARC
10:27 hdl tumer around ?
10:27 hdl the second database seems not receiving queries.
10:23 kados hdl: I have tested it, but not put data into more than one database on zebra
10:22 kados hdl: well ...
10:22 kados hdl: I haven't tested it
10:22 hdl kados : have you tested work with more than One base on zebra ? Does this work ?
10:21 hdl because all fields are in OLDmoditem
10:20 hdl seems so.
10:17 kados for instance ... if datelastborrowed is not in framework, it is lost when rebuildnonmarc is run, right?
10:17 hdl But you can be careful,
10:16 hdl If you merely overwrite informations from items table, then yes.
10:15 kados here it seems that it's MARC that's authoritative ... but if something in items is unmapped, it is lost?
10:14 kados but I am still confused about whether items table or MARC is authority on items data
10:14 kados I think I understand it now
10:14 kados ok
10:14 hdl caintain stands for contain.
10:14 hdl In order to caintain biblio, biblioitem and items information.
10:13 hdl That will be completed over and over.
10:13 kados hdl: you beat me :-)
10:13 kados hdl: or is there something magical happening because $result is a ref to hash?
10:13 hdl It seems to me that $result could be a ref to a hash.
10:11 kados and it looks also like $result is overwritten every time something is added
10:10 kados and there is no flag passed to say which of biblio, biblioitems,items is to be pulled out
10:10 kados but that $sth is never eecuted ...
10:10 kados my $sth=$dbh->prepare("select tagfield,tagsubfield from marc_subfield_structure where frameworkcode=? and kohafield=?");
10:10 kados first line is:
10:09 kados it looks like someone was gonna check to see witch one to do
10:09 kados but if I understand correctly, MARCmarc2koha still stuff to biblio and biblioitems fields
10:08 kados $record contains only items fields
10:08 kados C4::Biblio::_koha_modify_item( $dbh, $olditem );
10:08 kados my $olditem = MARCmarc2koha( $dbh, $record,$frameworkcode );
10:08 kados sub localNEWmoditem has:
10:07 kados in rebuildnonmarc, MARCmarc2koha is used in a few places
10:05 kados but $field is not
10:05 kados right?
10:04 kados the first time this is called, $result is null
10:04 kados }
10:04 kados $result=&MARCmarc2kohaOneField($sth,"biblio",$field,$record,$result,$frameworkcode);
10:04 kados while (($field)=$sth2->fetchrow) {
10:04 kados for instance:
10:04 kados because I'm not 100% sure of the behavior
10:04 kados it seems somewhat recursive in a way that I'm not completely comfortable with
10:03 hdl yes.
10:03 kados hdl: do you understand the MARCmarc2koha sub?
09:13 hdl Strange.
09:13 hdl It does so only for authorities and not for biblios.
09:09 hdl As soon as I type f in a yaz-client connexion with db is closed.
09:05 kados has some useful tips
09:05 kados Zebra Programmer Guide
09:05 kados http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php#zebra_programming_resources
09:05 hdl To know if indexation didnot failed ?
09:05 kados hdl: there are some explainations already on the wiki
09:05 hdl how can I analyse what is in db with zebra ?
09:04 kados not yet
09:04 hdl have you read what I proposed on wiki.koha.org
08:49 kados sorry, no
08:48 hdl kados :Do you know why this can occur ?
08:48 hdl zebra closes connexion before yaz-client can make any search. Target closed connection
08:48 kados since our MARC management is unreliable
08:47 kados in 3.0 I think we should make the items table the authoritative source of items data
08:46 hdl I ran rebuild over and over and didnot have such a problem.
08:45 kados I haven't investigated carefully why
08:45 hdl imho
08:45 kados all I know is, I run rebuildnonmarc, and it moves items data around ... and items data is missing
08:45 hdl (tagorder is here for that purpose)
08:44 hdl or tagorder ?
08:44 hdl What about subfieldorder ?
08:44 kados yep
08:44 hdl Does it ?
08:43 kados hdl: and moreover, marc_subfield_table has no understanding of how to properly order items data ... so if you have items ordered as Vol 1, Vol 2, etc ... it will re-arrange them randomly when you rebuildnonmarc
08:42 kados hdl: because before one month ago, marc_subfield_table was never updated with new items information if items were edited
08:42 kados hdl: but in fact, it's incorrect for all versions of Koha except 2.2.6
08:41 hdl Hi owen.
08:41 hdl I see no problem in that.
08:41 dewey salut, owen
08:41 owen Hi
08:41 hdl It states the fact taht MARC values are more valuable than non-MARC ones.
08:41 kados morning owen
08:40 hdl It does and it is the way rebuild non marc work.
08:40 kados hdl: items table I mean
08:40 kados hdl: rather than in the items data
08:40 kados hdl: it seems to assume that the authoritative items data is in the MARC
08:40 hdl what do you mean by "does not properly re-construct items data"?
08:39 kados hdl: so do not run it on any client data or items will be destroyed!
08:39 kados hdl: rebuildnonmarc.pl does not properly re-construct items data
08:39 hdl kados: got this. I will try.
08:38 kados hdl: I have discovered something very important (a bug)
08:36 kados hmm ... not sure why it closes connection
08:35 kados hdl: check your email
08:35 kados hdl: Mike R has already submited a UNIMARC patch :-)
08:35 hdl Do you know why this can occur ?
08:35 hdl Target closed connection
08:35 hdl But yaz-client closes connexion before making any search.
08:35 kados cool!
08:35 hdl I did get my stuf indexed.
08:34 hdl OK. I shall invest.
08:34 hdl Maybe I want to have too much precisions.
08:34 kados the ccl.properties file I committed has some explaination of bib1, based on online bib1 syntax documents
08:34 hdl You donot have enough distinctions between them.
08:33 hdl If you want to query only $a heading or whole heading or rejected forms ...
08:33 kados headings? you mean subject headings?
08:33 hdl yes but bib1 seems to be lacking some ways to question headings.
08:32 kados and my record.abs is likewise, very close to the standard
08:30 kados it adheres to bib1 as closely as possible, but I did expand on the standard in the 8XXX and 9XXX attribute sets
08:30 kados # $Id: bib1.att,v 1.1.2.2 2006/09/18 20:02:47 kados Exp $
08:30 kados at the top of the file I have:
08:29 kados I wrote a quite comprehensive bib1.att ... do you have that one?
08:29 hdl or if we can build up our own.
08:28 hdl and dont know whether there are norms, since bib1 and gils seem to be generalized.
08:28 kados :-)
08:27 hdl But *.att and *.abs files are quite a mystery to me.
08:27 hdl Still trying to get an authority file into zebra.
08:27 kados a bit tired ... but otherwise, well
08:27 hdl hi how are you ?
08:21 kados hi hdl
07:59 dewey hmmm... kados is becoming a true Perl Monger...
07:59 hdl kados ?
03:25 paul_away cd koha./nick paul_indispo
16:39 kados sorry bout that
16:39 kados ahh ... oops :-=)
16:39 russ when you add a new item for the news, check the homepage box otherwise it will just show up in the news section
16:38 kados russ: yep
16:36 russ kados you there?
16:14 russ two secs i'll change it
16:14 russ http://koha2.edit.katipo.co.nz/admin/news/
16:13 kados thx
16:13 russ the news editor is at
16:13 russ http://koha2.edit.katipo.co.nz/kaka to access the editor
16:12 russ http://koha2.edit.katipo.co.nz to browse the edit site
16:12 russ two secs
16:12 russ sure
16:12 russ how do
16:11 kados russ: can you remind me of how to access the editing interface for koha.org?
16:11 kados hey russ
16:11 kados heh
16:11 chris thats how i do it
16:11 chris hmmm fire it at russ :)
16:10 kados I'd submit some stuff but I can't remember how :-)
16:10 chris kados: yes we do
16:10 tumer nice work chris
16:10 chris so im just seeing what was written about it
16:10 kados chris: sweet!
16:10 kados we need to be better about updating the news on the koha.org site while I think about it
16:09 chris plus the Minister for libraries
16:09 chris there were 3 reporters there yesterday
16:08 kados gonna do a press release?
16:08 kados w00t
16:08 chris was their launch yesterday
16:08 kados chris: looking nice
16:07 chris classy
16:07 kados yea, it's a disaster
16:07 kados so you end up with an item you can't use ... and can't edit or delete either
16:07 chris yikes
16:07 kados what I've seen a lot of recently, is items saved to the marc_subfield_table, but not to items table
16:07 chris www.rangitikeilibrary.org.nz ?
16:06 dewey I haven't seen 'this', chris
16:06 chris seen this
16:06 chris hi guys
16:06 kados hey chris
16:06 tumer hi chris
16:06 chris hmm in the olden days, barcode was a unique column in mysql .. so you couldnt have duplicates mysql wouldnt let you .. i think that got ripped out at some point, and no one replaced it with checks in the code
16:05 tumer i dont remember
16:04 kados is there a bug filed for it?
16:04 owen I don't mean it /will/ be
16:04 kados will have to make a note of it
16:04 kados wow, that's something I didn't know
16:04 tumer i have that fixed in head
16:04 tumer but when editing it does not
16:04 owen I mean it /should/ be.
16:04 tumer not when creating a new one
16:03 kados owen: really?
16:03 kados tumer: I haven't tested that in dev_week, but in rel_2_2 it's definitely not permitted to have duplicate barcodes
16:03 owen Another thing to be fixed in 2.2.6b :)
16:03 kados as in it takes the not-up-to-date marc data for items and puts it in items table, rather than using the authoritative data from the items table itself
16:02 tumer you can edit a barcode and have duplicate barcodes
16:02 kados I recently discovered that in rel_2_2 (and probably elsewhere), rebuildnonmarc completely destroys items data
16:02 tumer i think barcode checking of items was lost as well
16:01 tumer so i have it in head only
16:01 kados :(
16:01 tumer yes i have written that just after dev_week to addbiblio.pl but somebody lost it
16:00 kados tumer: we are?
15:59 tumer we are all doing the same things differenly allover again
15:59 tumer its in dev week
15:57 kados should be just in dev_week
15:57 kados don't think so
15:57 tumer this new thing that came to head instead of dev_week is it?
15:56 tumer k
15:56 kados tumer: yea, check out the DelBiblio routine
15:56 tumer have you updated i did not see that
15:55 kados tumer: not in dev_week
15:55 tumer[A] owen:you can still delete a bibliographic record (together wit all the items) even if any is on issue , but don't tell them
15:51 kados gotcha
15:50 owen :) My point is that we're fine having only one level of catalog access because we understand we've got to work with what we've got
15:50 kados owen: right
15:49 kados in an ideal world I'd have a team of 12 programmers to work on koha :-)
15:49 owen Even the deletions can be tricky, although less so now if we've got Koha stopping deletions of items still on issue
15:49 kados right
15:49 owen In an ideal world we'd have several levels of cataloging access: Full, "Simple" (for things like MORE items), and deletion-only
15:46 kados but we wouldn't want them to have access to the regular items, right?
15:45 kados because iirc some folks create MORE items
15:45 kados it's tricky
15:45 owen That's why I'm thinking about this stuff now
15:44 owen We talked today about who all would have edit privileges on the catalog
15:44 dewey owen: I forgot tomorrow
15:44 owen dewey: forget tomorrow
15:44 kados hehe
15:43 dewey tomorrow is our national day
15:43 kados tomorrow
15:43 kados I'll touch base with her
15:43 kados ahh, good to know
15:43 owen Donna today talked as if she's still concerned about not having all the information she needs
15:43 kados is put together a cataloging manual ;-)
15:43 kados what we're going to need to do
15:43 kados we've been discussing it
15:43 kados they already know most if them
15:42 kados yes
15:42 owen You mentioned at the last Liblime meeting that there would be some new requirements for the catalogers to follow in order to get all the right data into records for the purpose of the new searching
15:41 kados right
15:40 owen had been, I mean
15:40 owen There had be some question about statistics with the itemtype scheme, but she said it's fine
15:39 kados approved the new itemtype?
15:38 owen Lauren approved that, so it can go on the to-do list
15:37 kados not sure it will happen before golive though
15:37 kados yep, that can still be done
15:37 owen We talked about setting up a MORE item type which wouldn't be searchable through the OPAC
15:37 kados right
15:35 owen I'm not sure it makes any more sense to make it a call number than part of the title, since it's a number like '29382103921'
15:35 kados that's no longer the case ;-)
15:34 owen The issue previously was that the title field seemed to be the best place to put that number in order for it to be searchable
15:34 kados why not put it in callnumber field?
15:34 owen No. The records don't need to be searchable other than by title, since we put the MORE tracking number into the title field
15:33 kados any other fields?
15:33 owen Yeah, of course.
15:33 kados with barcode
15:32 kados plus an item I'm guessing
15:32 kados just those fields?
15:32 owen Currently, MORE items are added with minimal information: title, itemtype.
15:30 kados ok, tell me a bit about it
15:30 kados ahh, right
15:30 owen We need to set NPL up with a specialized framework for MORE items
15:30 kados why, is there something you'd like to change?
15:30 kados I rely on carefully constructed sql files ;-)
15:29 kados I don't trust the frameworks editor
15:28 owen Yeah. We had problems in previous versions with the process for editing frameworks
15:28 kados owen: what part of frameworks? management of them?
15:27 owen kados: have you tested frameworks in dev_week?
12:02 kados hdl: and only if we find someone else to do a good job on MARC21 Biblio management
12:02 hdl So I shall strive to understand what you did.
12:02 kados hdl: but only after NPL goes live ;-)
12:01 kados hdl: I will
12:01 hdl which I doubt ;)
12:01 hdl I would be happy only if you tell us that you cope with UNIMARC too :D
12:01 kados hdl: because I would vote myself as the Search manager :-)
12:00 kados hdl: now you will be happy when I say we need to split the roles of koha developers ;-)
12:00 kados hdl: it took many many months :-)
12:00 hdl kados :Error /retry ?
11:59 hdl kados : How did you manage to build bib1.att and record and usmarc.mar and .chr files ?
11:58 kados hdl: some of the doc is for 2.0, some is for 1.3 ;-)
11:57 hdl Is there another Doc source ?
11:57 hdl kados : Documentation about bib1.att and record.abs and gils on Indexdata site isOK for use on zebra1.3 ?
11:56 kados right
11:56 hdl I could work on this but maybe after authorities management.
11:55 kados (and even for me ... very difficult)
11:55 kados but no way for the librarian to fix
11:55 kados and items that can't be deleted because they have no itemnumber
11:54 kados with the one client I have using this
11:54 kados I have some cases of duplicated barcodes
11:54 hdl I have done this on the rush. And couldnot think about linking and updating.
11:53 kados because it is clearly not ready for production
11:53 hdl And how this could be implemented and designed.
11:53 kados but I also think that we shouldn't advertise itemization of serials as a new feature
11:53 kados ok
11:53 hdl What I can propose is to write on the wiki what I thought of to manage this stuff.
11:52 hdl And not see it 4 times in your statecollection.
11:52 hdl Because you want to say : OK I got this number in my library.
11:51 kados why?
11:51 hdl If we receive 4 times an issue number... you are doomed.
11:51 hdl only partly.
11:50 kados it would solve a lot of problems
11:50 kados why not just add itemnumber to serials?
11:50 hdl There are many problems to solve.
11:50 hdl I thought on this problem.
11:50 hdl BUT.
11:50 hdl for item records, you should use biblios.
11:49 kados you can only update the serials tables
11:49 kados using serials control
11:49 kados there doesn't seem to be a way to update the Vol No info in an item record
11:49 kados hdl: only partly
11:48 hdl would that solve your problem ?
11:48 hdl I should hide the display of items for old elements.
11:48 kados hdl: blank meaning it will not have barcode or itemcallnumber, but will have serial info
11:48 kados hdl: it will add a new blank item then
11:47 hdl Becaus serial doesnot have an itemnum field a the moment.
11:47 hdl No.
11:46 kados hdl: but if they receive a serial, with a barcode and itemcallnumber, then next month, repeat, but the barcode and itemcallnumber aren't included for the back issues, it will break their items
11:46 hdl kados : they are.
11:46 hdl kados : tey are.
11:45 hdl Another problem would be for multiple items reception.
11:45 kados hdl: or itemcallnumbers?
11:45 kados hdl: your client won't be adding barcodes to their serials?
11:45 hdl I am striving to solve this on rel_3_0
11:44 hdl This is because there is no "link" between serial and items.
11:44 hdl this is a problem.
11:44 kados hdl: have you seen this behaviour?
11:44 hdl yes
11:44 kados hdl: it seems that barcodes and itemcallnumbers aren't recalled when editing back issues of a serial
11:43 kados hdl: got a quick question regarding itemization of serials
11:43 dewey there is a minor diff in <div>s, that I missed
11:43 kados hdl: still there?
11:33 hdl ok.