Time Nick Message 09:45 owen Heh.... from Bugzilla: "I will fix this tomorrow" 2003-06-02 :) 09:24 btoumi kados: ok 09:24 kados btoumi: I will ask him when he is back 09:24 kados btoumi: nevermind 09:23 btoumi kados: paul is perplexe but i must go in reunion 09:23 btoumi btoumi: paul is perplexe but i must go in reunion 09:21 kados btoumi: we know that it does happen 09:20 kados btoumi: even though we don't know why it happens 09:20 kados btoumi: also, wanted to ask him whether we need to file a bug report for the known bug of missing 090 fields 09:20 kados owen: do we have a bug report filed for that one? 09:20 kados just wondering if he saw owen's post above 09:20 btoumi ? 09:19 btoumi kados do u want to ask something to him 09:19 kados owen: keyboard acting up 09:19 kados owen: erp 09:19 kados owe 09:19 btoumi it works witth san op today 09:19 kados owen: we didn't solidify a release date yesterday, 09:19 btoumi no 09:18 kados paul_bed: sleeping on the job? :-) 09:18 kados is paul really in bed? 09:12 owen_ Is there an estimate for the next release of rel_2_2? 09:03 btoumi oué 09:02 kados yea 09:02 owen Poor Mordazy...keeps hoping someone will give him a different answer 08:59 Mordazy see you! 08:59 Mordazy thanks for answers, thanks a lot! 08:58 Mordazy I`ll be back in couple of hours 08:58 kados Mordazy: bye 08:58 Mordazy yeah, I know :) 08:58 Mordazy have to go 08:57 kados don't create your own set of templates :-) 08:57 Mordazy `hokay 08:56 Mordazy and would also learn a lot :) 08:56 Mordazy I could handle the cosmetics 08:54 Mordazy I hoped that Koha will suit our basic needs right of the box 08:53 Mordazy another 3 months for testing 08:52 Mordazy have 08:52 Mordazy i count that I`d hace system running until new year 08:51 Mordazy 7-8 months at best. 08:51 kados Mordazy: what's your timeline for leaving the consortium 08:50 Mordazy do I have to say more, why we`re desperately looking for an exit from this mess? :) 08:50 Mordazy of course the answer to any and all of our complaints was "it can`t be done" 08:49 kados toins: I don't know it 08:49 Mordazy two-three times more, to be exact :) 08:48 Mordazy 2) central lib always uses more licences than they paid for 08:48 Mordazy but they "float" between libs in a common pool 08:47 Mordazy 1) our licences are NOT bound to our computers 08:47 Mordazy we quickly discovered two things 08:47 Mordazy aha, the server for the whole thing is in the central lib 08:47 toins do you know this error : Connecting...error = System (lower-layer) error: Connection refused 08:47 Mordazy 4-5, 6, but never eight 08:46 Mordazy ...and we discovered, that we hardly can work on our 8 licences we paid for 08:46 toins oh yeah ! 08:45 toins kados: you around ? 08:45 Mordazy anyone in consortium can viev and CHANGE our records, so you can imagine the mess 08:45 Mordazy in the meantime the central catalogue appeared to be rather nightmare than blessing 08:44 Mordazy or course, they also could afford less than they needed 08:44 Mordazy of course, as new libraries joined, they had to buy licences for themselves 08:43 Mordazy so they could afford only a couple of licences 08:43 Mordazy VERY expensive, by the way 08:42 Mordazy the central lib picked Aleph 08:42 Mordazy ...and many others followed 08:42 Mordazy [I wasn`t working here yet] 08:42 Mordazy so, our previous manager signed in without thinking 08:41 Mordazy common policies, easier way to get grants from gov`t and so on 08:41 Mordazy they made a big noise about common database.. 08:41 Mordazy to make as many libraries as possible dependant on them 08:40 Mordazy so they came up with idea of making a consortium 08:40 Mordazy first of all, the current central library was about to be closed 08:40 Mordazy quide amusing, but also scary story :) 08:39 Mordazy if you`re not bored, I`ll tell you why our current consortium came to existence in the first place 08:38 Mordazy here that word is a synonym for rip-off :) 08:37 Mordazy not in Poland, unfortunately 08:37 owen Mordazy, I think that requires the dreaded word: consortium 08:36 Mordazy I`m very sad that Koha hasn`t more complete branch separation :( 08:36 Mordazy anyway 08:35 Mordazy the sad thing is that most thing go such way here :( 08:32 Mordazy ...the vet. 08:32 Mordazy ...and shot... 08:32 Mordazy ...and the same moment one of the cops panicked... 08:32 Mordazy with 08:32 Mordazy gave him some meat wit tranquilizer 08:32 Mordazy he managed to get close to the tiger 08:31 Mordazy a veterinary was sent for 08:31 paul (compiling zebra & yaz & zoom on btoumi computer) 08:31 paul kados, i'm here 08:30 Mordazy a couple years ago a tiger escaped from a zoo 08:30 Mordazy that saying about tigers running is kinda true 08:29 Mordazy you know 08:29 dewey i haven't a clue, owen 08:29 owen dewey: Poland is a country where tigers run freely on the streets 08:28 dewey owen: I forgot really 08:28 owen dewey: forget really 08:28 Mordazy actually, vice-prime minister 08:28 dewey really are quite different 08:28 kados really? 08:28 Mordazy a bandit with three sentences for various crimes is a prime minister here :) 08:26 kados yea, that's true 08:26 kados hehe 08:26 Mordazy in other words, it`s a place where NOTHING works as it should. 08:26 Mordazy uch 08:26 Mordazy in other words, it`s a plase that NOTHING works as it should. 08:26 kados paul: you around? 08:25 Mordazy and the cops shoot the veterinary :) 08:25 owen ? :) 08:25 Mordazy it`s a country, where tigers run freely on the streets 08:25 Mordazy it` Poland, man :) 08:24 owen If there are big bucks involved, couldn't that help justify the hiring of a developer? 08:24 Mordazy ...and pay big bucks for nothing :) :( 08:23 Mordazy if we haven`t a working ILS in April, we`ll have to stay in it for another year 08:22 Mordazy as I mentioned, we`re working on exit strategy from a consortium that indesputably is going to collapse in next two years max. 08:21 Mordazy that`s the problem 08:20 owen Then I'm afraid you're back to needing to hire a developer :( 08:19 Mordazy ow=of :) 08:18 Mordazy I would handle the rest 08:17 Mordazy the really crucial thing is that branch separation issuing / returning / renewing 08:17 Mordazy owen: my earlier emails were rather a bunch ow wishes :) 08:16 Mordazy Swidnica is about 500km from Krakow 08:16 owen Mordazy, I've just been looking over your emails again. It's hard to see how Koha could work for you as-is without separate installations at each branch... but then you'd lose the common catalogue (which I assume is a requirement) 08:14 Mordazy brb 08:09 Mordazy Wroclaw is current cultural centre in Poland 08:07 Mordazy ...but rather non-functional :) 08:07 owen Reminds me very much of Prague, which I've visited several times 08:06 owen Wow! Beautiful! 08:06 Mordazy pics of my library :) 08:06 owen Yes, there is always one common member database for all branches. And the IndependentBranches setting doesn't seem to prevent members of one branch from borrowing at another. 08:05 Mordazy http://www.mbp.swidnica.pl/main/bannery/hol1.jpg 08:05 Mordazy http://www.mbp.swidnica.pl/main/bannery/brama.jpg 08:04 Mordazy so, even with Independent.. turned on, a member registered in one branch is automatically registered in all? 08:03 owen There is definitely not a separate database 08:03 Mordazy or is there still common database and accounts? 08:03 owen Good question. As far as I know the IndependentBranches settings relate to the Koha Librarian, not to the Koha User 08:02 Mordazy by the way, does IndependentBranches also make members to register themselves separately to all branches? 08:00 Mordazy unfortunately, I need a fast solution :( 08:00 owen The core developers are working on numerous upgrade issues, so it's a bad time to ask for volunteers 07:59 owen Right... You'd have to wait an indeterminate amount of time or pay for the changes to be made 07:59 Mordazy the question is when :( 07:58 owen it seems that those changes would be a logical extension of the current IndependentBranches functionality 07:58 Mordazy ouch :( 07:58 owen Okay, my quick test indicates that Koha doesn't quite fit your needs: With the 'IndependentBranches' setting turned ON, I was prevented from issuing a book that belonged to another branch. But I wasn't prevented from renewing or from returning items from another branch. 07:56 Mordazy territorial :) 07:56 Mordazy we have 3 local branches and 3 in other locations, not to mention all branch managers are rather teritorial types :) 07:52 Mordazy thanks :) 07:51 owen I'm not an expert on the branch restrictions in Koha, because my library doesn't use them. It may be possible to restrict issing and renewing, but I'm less sure about returning. 07:51 Mordazy yes, this is crucial for me 07:51 Mordazy I mean, Adult Fiction handles only their items / transactions, but can`t change anything in other transactions 07:50 owen Ah, I recognize your question from the mailing list 07:50 Mordazy is it possible to restrict staff from different branches from issuing / returning / renewing items that belong to other branches? 07:49 Mordazy thanks 07:48 owen I'll answer if I can 07:48 Mordazy would you spare me a few minutes? 07:48 Mordazy I like Koha very much, but not sure if it suits our needs... 07:47 Mordazy I`m really impressed with the work you`ve done 07:44 Mordazy probably not, I`m new here 07:44 owen Hi Mordazy. Have we met before? 07:43 Mordazy hi owen 07:26 Mordazy does anybody know what Branch Categories actually do? 07:24 Mordazy does anybody know what Branch Categories actually do? 06:29 Mordazy re 04:49 Mordazy brb 04:49 Mordazy what`s the difference if I assign all branches to one category, or will have a few categories? 04:48 Mordazy can anyone explain me, what Branch Categories actually do? 04:48 Mordazy okay... 04:32 Mordazy see you! 04:32 mason righo , im off , see you online :) 04:31 Mordazy me too, my lib is not the only one that has distant branches :) 04:31 Mordazy thanks 04:31 mason ive got a feeling that koha has restrictions that may work close to what you are looking for 04:31 Mordazy ok, thakns 04:30 mason but , lurk about in the next few days and get some better info from other in #koha, who know more about these parts of the system than i do 04:29 Mordazy mason: thanks anyway :) 04:29 mason i have to head out about now :( 04:28 mason ah, ok 04:28 Mordazy mason: no, 3 are in the same building, 3 are in other locations 04:27 mason ah, branches are in the same building? 04:26 Mordazy What Branch Categories actually DO? 04:26 Mordazy but wait 04:26 Mordazy there`s no common circulation desk for all branches 04:25 Mordazy you know, every branch in our lib has ITS OWN circulation desk 04:25 mason i think that the feature hasnt happened in koha yet, because there hasnt been a need. (yet) 04:24 mason your situation is uniquw, because the default behaviour is to restrict staff access 04:23 Mordazy honestly, I`m surprised that something as useful is not implemented in Koha yet 04:22 Mordazy the problem is that I have less than two months to have system running for tests and another one for testing 04:21 mason i imagine something like the unix file permissions idea, would work ok for this too 04:21 Mordazy [see ONLY :))] 04:21 Mordazy it would be nice, if she could eventually switch to "full view" and see ALL items borrowed by certain user 04:20 Mordazy "sally from Multimedia, cant issue or update other branches bibs , only view bibs from her branch" 04:19 mason it sounds like a useful feature for an ILS 04:19 Mordazy but exactly that`s what I want 04:18 Mordazy that doesn`t matter 04:18 mason snap 04:18 mason that makes more sense :) 04:18 Mordazy she could view items from other branches, but couldn`t change it 04:18 mason . 04:18 mason so sally from Multimedia, cant issue or update other branches bibs , only view bibs from her branch... 04:17 mason s/can/cant 04:17 mason so sally from Multimedia, can issue or update, only view bibs from her branch... 04:16 mason right, so your issue is more about access-control of bib records , defined by user groups 04:15 Mordazy prolonged=renewed 04:15 Mordazy but there were couple of regular wars between branches` staff members just because CDs borrowed from Multimedia Branch for two days were accidentally prolonged by two weeks by a girl from Adult Fiction. 04:12 Mordazy I`d just create branch-specific items 04:12 Mordazy issuing rules are notr a big problem 04:12 mason hmm its 9:15pm here in new zealand 04:11 mason as they all handle issuing rules differently 04:11 Mordazy when is he active, usually? 04:11 Mordazy chris, you say... 04:11 mason we usually end up doing little mods for each of our libraries... 04:11 Mordazy but it`s not the point 04:11 Mordazy I could spend couple of days writing of the central library screw-ups :) 04:10 mason chris has lots of knowledge about branches customisation 04:10 Mordazy nothing really works 04:10 Mordazy is a DISorganisation :D 04:09 Mordazy that consortium is not an organisation 04:08 Mordazy that`s a plan a :) staying in the consortium is z, maybe :) 04:08 Mordazy but my library consists of 6 branches 04:08 mason right, or at least a plan b... 04:08 Mordazy I want KOHA for my library ONLY 04:07 Mordazy my lib wants to escape from that damn thing before it collapses 04:07 Mordazy I don`t want KOHA for consortium 04:07 Mordazy in addition, there`s nobody in charge, nobody to take full control of anything 04:06 mason right i now understand your previous questions about branches. 04:06 mason ah, thats a powerful feature :( 04:05 Mordazy ANYBODY in the consortium can not only view, but also CHANGE our records 04:05 mason right, so not too much consorting at ther moment... 04:05 Mordazy but the whole thing is made without basic concept 04:05 mason wow, thats big 04:04 Mordazy there are 8 libraries in the consortium, in a couple of years will be 40 04:04 Mordazy that too 04:04 mason or because the staff are updating the bib info willy-nilly? 04:03 mason so, is your current DB garbage coz someone did a bad conversion? 04:03 Mordazy expensive, not user friendly and looking like windows 1.0 04:02 mason gotcha 04:02 Mordazy Aleph is an Israel-made system working on Oracle 04:01 Mordazy but my knowledge is not enough yet to do it, so I`m waiting for a friend doing it 04:00 Mordazy so we want to use our old databases and add later additions made in Aleph 04:00 Mordazy cleaning it is almost impossible 03:59 Mordazy our database is full of garbage 03:59 Mordazy but since anyone can change our records 03:59 mason uhuh 03:59 Mordazy mason: the guys in the central library converted our old record into Aleph 03:58 Mordazy no 03:54 mason so your database conversion problems are between your previous LS and Aleph? 03:51 Mordazy our previous LS was using non-relational, text-based databases, so now getting anything out it is a nightmare 03:50 Mordazy now we`re in consortium using Aleph ILS, which screwed our records totally 03:49 Mordazy I have Koha installed, localized and functional, but have serious problems with database conversion 03:14 hdl join #koha-fr 03:00 thd Mordazy: not many libraries actually use the independent branches feature 03:00 Mordazy brb 02:59 thd Mordazy: unfortunately, I do not know that 02:58 thd Mordazy: just remember that Koha is on http://savanah.nongnu.org/ not sourceforge 02:57 Mordazy yes, but does "intependant" mean in this case that also borrower will have to register in each branch and will have separate accounts with transactions and payments for each branch? 02:56 thd Mordazy: there are instructions for installing Koha on http://www.kohadocs.org 02:54 thd Mordazy: separate installations would be extra independent and require MySQL databases for each branch 02:53 Mordazy thd: I know. The problem is that I have no DB yet to conduct proper testing... 02:51 thd Mordazy: but it is not the same as multiple installations of Koha 02:50 Mordazy I`ve been told that independant branches have independant _everything_ 02:50 thd Mordazy: there is only one database really but independent branches is not extensively documented and not a very old feature. It dates from about a year ago 02:48 Mordazy that`s the problem 02:47 Mordazy hdl: what if independant branches are set? Is there still one borrower database? or each branch has its own borrower db? 02:39 thd hdl: if the framework code were smaller than the maximum allowed value in CHAR could the value returned have trailing spaces? 02:38 thd hdl: unless I goofed I notice that some tables have VAR for framework code and some use CHAR 02:37 thd hdl: that was the problem we were trying to trace but did not find until last night 02:35 thd hdl: is there any reason that changing the size of framework columns should cause a problem? 02:35 thd hdl: he just happened to notice something which did not look correct when tracing a problem for adding items 02:34 thd hdl: I am not certain that kados was confident about it being a real problem 02:33 hdl Or was it not what he reported ? 02:33 hdl yes. 02:32 hdl I have seen it on bugzilla... 02:32 thd hdl:m in the past 2 days? 02:32 hdl thd: Must have been corrected. 02:31 thd hdl: it was not obvious to me but he has familiarity with the code 02:30 thd hdl: a couple of days ago kados suspected he found code in addbiblio.pl that could lead to data loss if independent branches was set. 02:28 thd hdl: ok that was my suggestion for a method 02:27 hdl (not based on computers though, but on librarian branch) 02:27 thd Mordazy: there is your answer 02:27 hdl yes. 02:27 thd hdl: and if independent branches are set then not? 02:26 hdl unless IndependantBranches is set, yes. 02:26 thd hdl: can computers at one branch be used to circulate material not present at that branch? 02:25 hdl hi thd 02:25 osmoze lo hdl 02:24 thd good morning hdl 02:20 thd Mordazy: well that could certainly be another method of restriction and maybe that one works by default even where there maybe no restriction for the librarian with circulation privileges 02:19 Mordazy so I actually should have asked if computer in Adult Fiction branch can circulate items from Multimedia, since it`s registered in Adult Fiction 02:17 Mordazy I know that computer registers itself by a cookie, which branch it belongs to 02:16 Mordazy actually I don`t care about staff, I care about COMPUTERS in branches 02:16 Mordazy I guess my question was not precise 02:13 thd Mordazy: so you would only need the system to check the librarian branch affiliation when checking for circulation permission 02:12 Mordazy brb, will check something with our current ILS 02:11 Mordazy that branches` staff don`t go in each other`s way 02:11 thd Mordazy: the database has a place to store the home branch for each user including librarians 02:10 Mordazy but actually I demand only one thing 02:10 Mordazy yeah 02:10 thd Mordazy: very little good software would be expected to do that 02:09 Mordazy the problem is, that the management of my lib wants a system that works OUR way right out the box 02:09 thd http://www.koha.org/support/pay.html 02:09 thd Mordazy: you should communicate with some one on this list ... 02:07 Mordazy but not for me, at least yet :( 02:07 Mordazy probably 02:07 thd Mordazy: well there could be. I think it would be very easy to code actually 02:06 osmoze i think no 02:05 thd ? 02:05 thd osmoze: do you know if there is an existing method to prevent the circulating librarian from circulating or renewing material from a different branch to the branch that librarian is associated 02:04 osmoze 3 branch 02:04 osmoze yes 02:03 thd osmoze does you library have more than one branch? 02:03 thd hello osmoze 02:03 osmoze hello #koha 02:03 thd Mordazy: if it is not set implicitly by a combination of user and branch settings then you could easily hire someone familiar with Koha circulation to fix the code for that 02:01 Mordazy pity 02:01 Mordazy piry :( 02:01 Mordazy :( 02:01 thd s circulation 02:01 Mordazy the question is, whether the system denies such actions, or allows them 02:00 thd Mordazy: unfortunately I actually know least of all about how Koha manage 02:00 Mordazy exactly, no explicit permissions / restrictions 01:59 thd Mordazy: there seems to be no explicit permission restricting that in the members settings but that may be controlled by a combination of factors 01:57 Mordazy ? 01:57 Mordazy but if they can circulate, are they restricted from issuing/returning/prolonging materials from other branches 01:57 thd Mordazy: you have to enable permissions specifically 01:56 Mordazy okay... 01:55 thd Mordazy: staff cannot even circulate material by default 01:51 Mordazy My biggest concern is how to make sure that staff from branch one can`t mess anything in transactions from branch two. For example: can staff from Adult Fiction branch borrow, return etc. items from Multimedia Branch? I hope they can`t by default, because there were couple of regular wars between branches` staff members just because CDs borrowed from Multimedia Branch for two days were accidentally prolonged by two weeks by a girl from Adult 01:51 Mordazy transfers bettween branches are not important now 01:40 Mordazy brb 01:40 Mordazy so it`s possible to restrict staff from a branch from issuing, returning (or modifying issues) items from other branches? 01:39 thd Mordazy: there are also mechanisms where one branch can transfer material to another branch 01:39 Mordazy My Koha is not ready for use yet, and I need some quick answers... 01:38 thd Mordazy: I believe that you can prevent that absolutely 01:38 thd Mordazy: I do not administer a real library so I have not spent much time looking for where the options are 01:37 Mordazy the same applying to any other branch 01:37 Mordazy my lib has 6 branches, some in distant locations. I DON`T want staff from Adult Fiction to do ANYTHING but view with items or transactions from other branches 01:36 thd Mordazy: there are very detailed set of permissions for users including librarians 01:36 Mordazy o! tell me more. 01:36 thd Mordazy: you can also add restrictions 01:35 Mordazy hmmm 01:35 thd Mordazy: I may be mistaken, but I believe any branch can charge out items 01:35 Mordazy but I don`t want branches to mess in each other`s transactions 01:34 thd Mordazy: there is a branch transfer function 01:33 Mordazy I mean, there are two branches, for example Adult Fiction and Multimedia 01:32 Mordazy I need to know if branches can for example return or issue items from each other? 01:32 Mordazy sorry, I thought you asked about question I posted to mailing list 01:32 thd Mordazy: I do not understand your question if you have asked it yet 01:31 Mordazy on the koha mailing list? yes 01:30 thd Mordazy: did you have a question about branches? 01:30 Mordazy one question: 01:30 Mordazy okay 01:30 thd Mordazy: many are 01:10 Mordazy anybody here using KOHA in a lib that has several branches? 01:10 Mordazy hi all 23:37 thd kados:you will see that 4 characters will be difficult to keep the frameworks straight because the letters would become arbitrary code assignments 23:36 kados g'night #koha 23:36 thd kados: when you are awake I will explain something about what standard frameworks might be 23:36 kados thanks for troubleshooting with me thd 23:36 kados ok, I'm gonna head out 23:36 kados :-) 23:35 thd kados: I am too tired to go to sleep 23:35 kados anyway, I need to sleep now 23:35 kados it's frustrating 23:35 kados there's so much we could be doing if we had the resources 23:35 kados in 3.2 we could do it with xslt 23:34 kados yea ... 23:34 thd kados: I thought that was a 3.4 feature 23:34 kados I agree ... but that won't appear until 2.2.8 :-) 23:33 thd kados: I think the best solution is one framework that changes dynamically 23:33 thd kados: if all the code in Koha were that economical it would be unreadable 23:33 kados but i think we should stick with the 4 character limit when we commit 23:32 kados well however you want to represent them while editing is fine by me 23:32 kados :-) 23:32 thd kados: I mean staring at them for hours in vim till they do what they should :) 23:32 kados BKS is just as meaningful as SIMPLE_BOOKS 23:31 kados thd: yes I am :-) 23:31 thd kados: you are not editing them in vim 23:31 kados s/labels/codes/ in my original response 23:31 kados thd: that's what the labels are for :-) 23:31 thd kados: I think it is the underscore 23:31 kados thd: they don't need meaningful labels 23:30 thd kados: that would mean that very little could have meaningful labels. 23:29 kados it causes headaches for me :-) 23:29 kados but lets keep things simple and not diverge needlessly from the project's existing conventions 23:29 kados yes I know 23:29 thd kados:and you know that no one can detect the microseconds lost in indexing the key for the framework :) 23:28 kados thd: please change it back to 4 23:28 thd kados: I only made it VARCHAR (32) from (4) 23:27 thd kados:it is not as if I made the column a text field 23:26 thd kados: instead of the nice human readable labels we can have in XML 23:26 kados I am :-) 23:26 thd kados: it seems as if you are making an argument in favour of the byte economies of the original MARC design 23:24 thd kados: yes but that is not the same as indexing in MySQL, although, keys are certainly indexed 23:24 kados might as well just have a label to start with 23:24 kados there's no point to having a code and a label if the code is as verbose as the label 23:24 kados it has a key assigned to it I think 23:23 thd kados: is the framework code even indexed? 23:22 kados yes, it is 23:22 thd kados: I did not think that index efficiency was a function of string length 23:21 kados I will leave it to you to maintain, synch with other branches, etc. 23:21 kados ok, I have committed 23:21 thd kados: I am inclined to suspect the underscore or something else 23:21 kados thd: if all the codes start with SIMPLE then mysql doesn't index them efficiently 23:21 kados thd: the whole point of a code is that it's short and can be easily indexed 23:21 kados thd: that's what the lables are for 23:19 thd kados: I do like readable names and I do not think that we found the problem 23:19 kados and delete the asmp one 23:19 kados ok, I'll do that and commit 23:19 thd kados: marc21_simple_bib_frameworks.sql 23:18 kados marc21_bib_frameworks.sql? 23:18 kados ? 23:17 thd kados: your name suggestion 23:17 kados ok 23:17 thd kados: I have a name suggestion 23:17 kados thd: I'd like to call it marc21_bib_frameworks.sql 23:16 kados thd: I'd also like to rename the file 23:16 kados thd: and I removed reference to asmp 23:16 kados thd: I just changed the codes 23:16 kados thd: I'd like to commit what I did 23:15 thd kados: yes plenty in an absolute sense but not for readability 23:15 kados thd: way more than any koha install should have :-) 23:15 kados thd: plenty of possible codes 23:15 thd kados: plenty for what? 23:15 kados thd: I'm tired and just want a simple solution now :-) 23:15 kados thd: I'm not inclined to since 4 characters gives us plenty 23:15 thd kados: try that 23:14 kados thd: no 23:14 thd kados: have you tried 4 characters including an underscore? 23:14 kados thd: it worked 23:14 kados thd: that must be it 23:12 kados thd: I have changed all the codes to 4 characters in the demo and I'm re-testing 23:09 thd kados: that allowed for meaningful framework names and namespaces 23:08 thd kados: yes I increased the size of the columns 23:07 kados thd: the template restricts to 4 characters 23:07 thd kados: I think that the template will restrict you to 4 characters 23:07 kados it was TEST 23:07 kados no 23:07 thd kados: was your name more than 4 characters? 23:07 kados thd: I will test with an underscore 23:07 kados thd: no underscore 23:06 kados thd: no 23:06 kados it happens with BOOKS 23:06 thd kados: did you use an underscore for your duplicate name? 23:06 thd kados: yes, we would have had an import error if the SQL was a problem 23:05 kados I will test others to see 23:05 thd kados: does this happen with every non-default ASMP framework 23:05 kados thd: I suspect the sql syntax is flawless 23:04 thd kados: the default framework has only a few extra subfields from a few months ago 23:04 kados so there must be something wrong with the asmp_frameworks 23:03 kados thd: I created a testing framework that is a copy of the default and adding items works fine 23:03 kados thd: it occurs only with your frameworks ;-) 23:02 kados thd: it does not occur with a non-default framework 23:02 thd kados: oh yes that would be the easy way for that 23:02 kados wow, the default is really quite bloated 23:01 kados thd: I used the Intranet to create it 23:01 kados thd: the unmanagable one we started with perhaps? 23:01 thd kados: you added a framework name in all the correct places? 23:01 kados thd: it seems the default framework is back to a very bloated version 23:00 kados thd: I just duplicated the default framework and am testing that 22:53 kados ok 22:37 thd kados: ok I will make a test framework for the test I described earlier 22:35 kados brb 22:35 kados power is back on, I'm headed back to my office 22:34 kados thd: low priority request, remove all reference to ASMP 22:33 kados yep 22:33 thd kados: less verbosity makes it easier to spot the important parts when editing 22:32 thd kados: however, really stringent coding would require the most verbose form always so I asked paul 22:31 kados right 22:31 thd kados: there is no absolute need for the extra verbosity if you are newly creating the tables 22:30 kados and? 22:30 thd kados:yes I had a discussion about that with paul before I committed them 22:29 kados INSERT INTO marc_subfield_structure (tagfield, tagsubfield, liblibrarian, libopac, repeatable, mandatory, kohafield, tab, authorised_value, authtypecode, value_builder, isurl, hidden, frameworkcode, seealso, link) VALUES ('090', '9', 'Num?ro biblio (koha)', 'Num?ro biblio (koha)', 0, 0, 'biblio.biblionumber', -1, '', '', '', NULL, NULL, '', NULL, NULL); 22:29 thd kados:what is different about the syntax? 22:29 kados slightly different syntax than your's 22:28 kados it looks like the structure of the files are different ... paul's aren't commented at all and are mainly a bunch of insert statements 22:28 thd or edited them 22:28 kados hehe 22:28 thd chiefly that I wrote them 22:28 kados I've no idea :/ 22:27 thd kados:why would it not happen in UNIMARC 22:27 kados thd: so what is the difference between your frameworks and the unimarc ones? 22:27 kados thd: must it? 22:27 thd kados:must be the frameworks if it does not happen in UNIMARC 22:26 kados thd: so it's either your frameworks, or else something in the code 22:26 thd ;) 22:26 kados damn it 22:26 kados of course, it doesn't happen in unimarc :/ 22:21 speedyfs mason: the barcode reader works now 22:21 speedyfs mason: thanks a bunch 22:21 kados I have a UNIMARC install that paul sent me 22:21 thd ? 22:20 thd kados: you have your own UNIMARC install or the UNIMARC demo 22:20 kados now I"ll test with unimarc 22:19 kados and I don't see any strange errors either 22:18 kados basically any non-default framework triggers the problem for marc21 records 22:18 kados ok, it still happens 22:17 thd s/treating default/treating non-default/ 22:17 kados now I'll duplicate one created with default and see if it happens 22:17 kados thd: I confirmed that creating a new record with default works 22:16 thd kados:if it happens with the duplicate of default but not default then you know it is how the code is treating default 22:15 thd kados: you could duplicate the default framework as an additional framework 22:14 thd or confirm 22:14 kados thd: how? 22:14 thd kados:if you are confident that is not the framework then I can think of an excellent way to test 22:14 kados sigh 22:14 kados I confirmed it happens with stock rel_2_2 also 22:12 kados yep 22:12 thd kados: if paul tested only default for MARC 21 he would have missed this as a MARC 21 issue 22:11 kados thd: true 22:11 thd kados: well we never found out about the UNIMARC only bugs paul spoke of earlier 22:11 kados thd: it would not hurt to triple check the frameworks for some hidden problem though 22:10 kados thd: yes 22:10 thd kados: code meaning non-framework code? 22:10 kados yes 22:10 thd kados: code meaning non-template code? 22:09 kados I'm gonna try testing in stock rel_2_2 now 22:09 kados I'm 90% sure it's a code problem 22:09 kados thd: it only happens with non-default templates 22:09 thd kados: I thought that you said it happens with default also 22:08 kados thd: specifically, the ones you created as I have no other ones to test 22:08 kados thd: it only happens with non-default templates 22:08 thd ? 22:08 thd kados: does it happen if you reload the standard default framework only 22:07 kados shoot, this is a really big problem 22:05 kados I confirm it happens in the default tempaltes too 22:05 thd I had assumed that their deleting barcodes was the problem 22:04 thd kados: Afognak had many items with no bar code after they had edited them which could not be edited or deleted 22:02 kados ok now I test default 22:02 kados thd: I think it's been a bug for a long time and noone noticed 22:02 kados thd: I don't know 22:02 kados ok, bug filed 21:59 thd s(/this )(was)/\2 \1/ 21:58 thd kados: this was a problem before I changed the items labels? 21:57 kados then I'll test the default templates 21:57 kados so first off I'm gonna file a bug 21:56 kados the athens power companies are so laughable 21:56 kados thd: literally :-) 21:56 kados thd: yes :-) 21:56 thd kados: can you see lights on on one side of the street and off on the other? 21:55 mason no probs :) 21:55 kados so I packed up and head to a local bar :-) 21:55 kados (the half my office is in :/) 21:55 kados power just went out in half of Athens :-) 21:55 speedyfs sorry mason thanks 21:54 speedyfs yeah 21:54 kados it's definitely to do with frameworks though 21:54 kados thd: some things are saved, others are not 21:54 kados thd: yes, it has visible content 21:49 thd kados: my item has visible content and I cannot edit it 21:49 thd in the item that you cannot edit 21:48 thd kados: does your bad record have a items.itemnumber ID? 21:47 mason http://cpan.org.ua/authors/id/A/AR/AREIBENS/PDF-API2-0.3r77.tar.gz 21:46 mason http://cpan.org.ua/authors/id/A/AR/AREIBENS/ 21:44 mason speedyfs: u need an old version, for the old barcodes stuff? 21:38 speedyfs ? 21:32 speedyfs does anyone have a copy of PDF-API2-0.3r77.tar.gz 21:28 speedyfs hello everyone 21:18 thd sound extremely blocking :) 21:18 kados this is definitely a blocker bug! 21:17 kados it will be an empty item, impossisble to delete or edit 21:17 kados 6. create an item for that duplicate 21:17 kados 5. duplicate ehe record using a non-default framework 21:17 kados it will be a normal item 21:16 kados 4. create an item for that duplicate 21:16 kados 3. duplicate the record using the default framework 21:16 kados (it will be an empty item, impossible to delete or edit) 21:16 thd kados: all items use the default framework 21:16 kados 2. create an item for that framework 21:16 kados 1. create a record using a framework other than default 21:16 kados thd: here are the steps to duplication: 21:15 thd kados: you cannot create items with a framework 21:15 kados so it's a bug related to frameworks for sure 21:15 kados but if you duplicate it with the DVDs, VHS framework the same problem happens 21:13 thd kados:only the original record has the problem? 21:12 kados thd: if you then duplicate the record with the default framework the duplicate doesn't have the problem 21:10 kados thd: create an item using the DVDs VHS framework 20:55 thd kados: what is required to reproduce the bug? 20:35 thd kados:when do the frameworks not change? 20:35 thd hidden bug? 20:34 kados hidden bug I mean 20:34 kados so there's a hidden view 20:34 kados thd: I confirmed it happens in the demo too 20:29 thd s/installing/importing 20:29 thd kados: I have only seen frameworks not change when the frameworks had not finished installing 20:28 kados arrg 20:28 kados and changeframework isn't working for some reason 20:27 kados I am replicating this on the demo to test 20:27 kados framework incorrectly in some way? Is there a vital MARC field that Ishouldn?t be leaving blank or something? 20:27 kados inaccessible. The auto-barcoding worked and the item was given a uniquebarcode number, but now I can?t edit or delete that item. Could I be using the 20:27 kados I created a bibliographic entry for 6 + 1 Trait Writing: A Model That Worksusing the DVD, VHS framework. Then, when I added an item, it became 20:27 thd kados: when is it created? 20:25 kados thd: the problems with items not being saved properly persist 18:21 thd kados: are you locked out or locked in? 17:56 russ cool 17:56 thd russ: but if paul has not asked you I will remind him 17:56 thd russ: well paul had said he would ask Katipo about adding logbot for that channel so that people like me with poor connectivity can follow the developments in French occasionally 17:54 thd they had been using a private channel but recently started using #koha-fr instead 17:53 thd russ: people from SAN and some others are not comfortable communicating in French on a mostly English #koha IRC channel 17:52 russ sounds like a question for the koha-devel list 17:52 thd ? 17:52 russ no 17:52 thd russ:do you know about #koha-fr 17:51 thd russ: I forgot to bring it up during the meeting 17:51 thd russ: has anyone asked yet about logbot for #koha-fr? 17:50 thd hello russ 17:50 russ hi thd 17:49 thd russ: are you there? 17:49 thd oops, I dropped the keyboard 17:48 thd v \] ,............................................................................................................................................................ 17:18 thd kados: if you are stiff enough, I have a correction 17:17 thd ok chris 17:17 chris ok i better get back to work, got a bunch of tickets open from a client that i need to close 17:17 thd merely, that some language generation could be scripted and maybe that could be partly functional for templates 17:16 chris i think its just something we have to deal with, try to make it as easy as possible, but realise its always going to be a burden 17:15 thd yes: I do not see how to do without templates 17:15 chris but with freedom, means harder to keep up to date 17:15 chris templates give you a lot more freedom than simple translation 17:14 chris its more than that 17:13 thd chris: many variables would require much CPU but multiple files in different namespaces generated by a script should avoid the updating problem 17:12 thd chris: the problem with templates, even where they work, is updating them 17:10 chris it was just the defacto 17:10 chris cos they never got round to making english official 17:10 chris yep, was only one official language for a long time, maori 17:10 thd s/kados/chris/ 17:09 thd kados: I did not know that more than one was official 17:09 chris but then also samoan, tongan, chinese would be good too 17:09 chris there are 2 official languages in nz... it should be in least those 2 17:08 kados yep 17:08 chris for public libraries 17:08 kados it's very important to me 17:08 chris yes 17:08 thd chris: is multilingualism important for NZ libraries? 17:07 chris havent had a real chance to think about it 17:07 thd chris: did you have any idea for making zoomopac multilingual? 17:06 chris basically they were just the stuff that got missed out in 2.0 .. and then werent fixed for 2.2 ... but all good for 3.0 17:06 chris yep, it should be all the same in 3.0 17:05 thd chris: what you had described as NZ specific acquisitions during devel week sounded like all the things that any good acquisitions system for anywhere should have 17:04 thd chris: so everyone is working on the same thing? 17:04 chris we put all our fixes in 3.0 17:03 thd chris: what is the status or plan for NZ acquisitions in Koha 3.0 vs the acquisitions on which others have been working? 17:02 thd goodbye btoumi 17:02 btoumi bye all 17:02 thd bye alaurin 17:01 alaurin bye everybody 17:00 thd chris: meta-records can hold any basic standard record relationship that some script can discover 16:58 thd chris: 3.0 uses an entirely different indexing method and does not provide for meta-records which can each hold individually indexed records 16:57 thd chris: the dependency is Zebra 2.0 or greater 16:56 thd chris: that uses XPath indexing 16:56 thd chris: this is only efficient for at least the 3.2 API 16:55 thd chris: I have discussed it with tumer and found that we were thinking on some similar lines 16:55 chris ill do a workaround for 3.0 etc 16:55 chris righto 16:54 thd chris: well I am going to make certain it gets implemented circa 3.4 16:54 chris but id settle for the book under the same result :) 16:54 tumer goodnight all 16:54 chris yes 16:54 thd chris: that was part of your original conception for Koha was it not? 16:52 thd chris: there would still be individual MARC records underneath 16:52 thd chris: with a trans-adaptation FRBR meta-record you could have the film, the novel, and the play all as a single result if you wanted 16:51 toins bye all !!!!!!!!! 16:50 thd a much friendlier world than the one I was born into when you had too look at some massively large set of books to find out what other libraries held 16:50 toins paul_bed: ok 16:49 paul toins : same note, but at 8:15 ;-) 16:49 btoumi yep paul: 16:49 paul btoumi: & alaurin => see you tomorrow morning. 16:49 thd paul chris: at least your new children will be born into a world with Koha 16:49 paul ok, bye bye & have a good day/evening/night depending on where you are located ! 16:48 btoumi congratulations 16:47 tumer it will be head! 16:47 kados hehe 16:47 paul answer in october (6th iirc) 16:46 paul the question being will it be a 4th boy or a 1st girl? 16:46 tumer pauls been busy:) 16:46 chris congrats paul 16:46 alaurin congratulations 16:46 paul that's my last announce for today ! 16:46 kados wow, so soon! 16:46 paul ... my family will have a 4th baby at the end of february ;-) 16:46 paul I won't post my wife picture, but... 16:46 chris paul: thats for you 16:45 chris http://www.bigballofwax.co.nz/blog/files/crayon.jpg 16:45 thd chris: we can fit your results on one line if you want :) 16:45 chris i dont care about complexity, i just dont want 17 pages of results, when it can fit on 2 :-) 16:44 paul how is going your wife ? 16:44 tumer yes 16:44 paul a last question to chris : 16:44 kados paul: yep 16:44 chris yep paul 16:44 thd chris: you can hide the record complexity and still have it embedded underneath 16:44 paul_2 can we end the meeting ? 16:44 chris yes 16:44 kados the single biggest problem with MARC IMO 16:44 chris was that the patrons got confused by the results 16:43 kados and it's what a lot of libraries hate 16:43 kados yep 16:43 chris s 16:43 chris thats one of the things they hated about their old system 16:43 chris cos thats a 'blocker' for not just hlt ... but any library that has gone to koha 16:43 kados FRBR is too MARC-centric I think 16:42 thd chris: my Idea is to extent FRBR to encompass the trans-adaptation conception of works in the original Koha record design 16:42 kados how can HLT and NPL both be happy :-) 16:42 paul_2 almost midnight in France (& 2AM in cyprus...) 16:42 kados it's the problem we've had from the beginning 16:42 chris but was gonna make sure i wasnt doing it needlessly if tumer had a solution 16:42 chris im sure i can do something to make it look like its grouping 16:42 kados it's mainly definitions 16:42 chris just checking 16:41 chris yeah 16:41 tumer that looks like some perl coding rather than zebra to me 16:41 thd chris: I am formulating a proposal for that for 3.4 16:41 kados the only way to do it is to create an abstract format that contains MARC (and other) records 16:41 chris yeah 16:40 kados zebra won't be able to do this natively using a standard MARC format 16:40 chris not 3 lines 16:40 chris ideally id like those first 3 results (the it's one) to all be on one line 16:40 thd chris: anything which functions in Zebra should work 16:40 chris im sure we can figure something out about that 16:40 tumer so any of kados's search engines will sit on top of it 16:39 chris right 16:39 tumer except everything is xml 16:39 tumer it works very similar to dev_week 16:38 chris http://zoomopac.liblime.com/search?&qf=it&do=Search&r=1 16:38 thd chris: what do you mean by like records? 16:38 chris can it, or will it be able to group 'like' records in the search results? 16:37 chris one question tumer 16:37 tumer and all proper UTF-8 16:37 tumer circulation is faster 16:36 tumer authorities works 16:36 tumer addbiblio is now better handling of XML 16:35 paul_2 stupid provider... 16:35 tumer it contains lots of bug remmovede that you have in rel_2 and rel_34 16:35 thd after that we can all work on 3.4 16:35 tumer so you decide what we do with it 16:35 dewey okay, tumer. 16:35 tumer i am also debugging it very fast as it it in use 16:34 tumer after that i cannot keep trying to synchh it 16:34 tumer by the end of this month it should be all finished and committed 16:34 chris cool 16:34 tumer currently i am trying to keep it in sync with rel_3 16:33 tumer this is what i plan with head: 16:33 chris yeah i can imagine 16:33 kados chris: the longest time spent on NPL's migration is fixing the MARC records from 2.2.5 16:33 thd s/replicate/populate/ 16:33 chris so i might be able to speed it up some, but not a huge amount i wouldnt imagine 16:32 thd paul: you just divide and replicate the items into separate records 16:32 tumer once you get the old marcs out of old db it can be automized 16:32 chris i have some recent experience optimising import code 16:32 paul but with your new biblio structure, how can it be possible to automatize all of this ? 16:31 tumer migration from dev_week to head should not tkae more than 2 hrs even less 16:31 paul (even if it's quite a pain) 16:31 paul tumer : 2.2 -> 2.4/3.0 migration is possible. kados & us already know how to do 16:31 paul chris : hehe... 16:30 kados hehe 16:30 chris that everyone can use for migrations ;) 16:30 tumer from Dev_week or earlier 16:30 thd kados: do you commit your nightmares? 16:30 chris is a fast computer, with a big ramdisk 16:30 tumer so from where HEAd should migrate from? 16:30 kados it's a nightmare :-) 16:30 kados the migrate script is a shell script that calls many other scripts 16:30 chris what we need 16:29 kados migrating NPL takes about 40 hours 16:29 paul that's my question 2 16:29 thd paul: only 2.2 is real trouble 16:29 kados just to get a sense of what is involved in migration 16:29 paul because tumer is playing a lot & greatly it seems, but we must remember we will have to migrate 2.2 &2.4 & 3.0 libraries ! 16:29 chris :-) 16:29 tumer well head is in production with us so yes it will be possible 16:28 paul (migrate the database I mean) 16:28 paul I'm curious to know if it will be possible & how to move from dev_week/rel_3 to head 16:28 chris yep 16:28 thd kados: I meant to say that you would need a namespace for the different files for multilingual use 16:28 kados yep, I do 16:28 paul some minuts to spend for tumer work ? 16:27 kados yep :-) 16:27 paul so, it seems we are done with rel_3 & dev_week questions ! 16:27 paul (most of my libraries have at least french & english active) 16:27 kados thd: where the user switches back and forth between languages 16:27 kados thd: that won't work for multi-language OPACs 16:26 thd one could simply run a script to create differing language versions of hard coded variables 16:26 paul yep 16:26 kados thd: can it wait a minute? 16:25 thd I have had a thought about language issues 16:25 kados yep 16:25 chris does that sound right? 16:25 chris in parallel, rel_3_0 will be kept up to sync, and beaten into a releasable form 16:24 chris liblime will work on dev_week ... with katipo doing some bugfixing (i have a couple of clients in mind for this version) 16:24 paul me too, but once again, i'm not sure to be able to work on this since a "long" time 16:24 chris ok, so to summarise 16:23 kados and I think probably after LibLime sells some dev_week stuff we're going to focus on that 16:23 chris yes im very interested in that too 16:23 thd s/XML/XPath indexing/ 16:23 kados so now that Zebra 2.0 has been released I can see that XML + XSLT is very interesting for Koha 16:23 chris lol paul 16:23 kados hehe 16:22 thd kados: even I am eager to do something with XML Zebra 16:22 chris but the good thing, is that we still get to share those with others 16:22 paul chris is our "old wisdom man" it seems... 16:22 kados yep, it's unfortunate but true 16:22 chris the reality of having to eat, means we have to do what our clients ask for 16:22 kados I assumed everyone would work on it (meaning zebra) 16:21 tumer they will say 1 000 000 $ not EUR 16:21 kados I think I didn't anticipate paul and hdl and chris being too busy to work on 3.0 16:21 paul and you didn't imagine that zebra will be such a pain either ! 16:21 kados hehe 16:21 paul of course, if a french library comes & say "ok, i want this version, and have 1 000 000 EUR for this", then i'll use it in france (& refund some % to LibLime ;-) ) 16:20 kados in fact, I didn't even know tumer and I am not a programmer :-) 16:20 chris but we all get the benefit from it 16:20 kados originally I did not imagine tumer and I would be the only one's working on zebra 16:20 paul it's just supported by liblime only. 16:20 paul :) 16:20 chris :) 16:20 kados hehe 16:20 thd paul: because kados has been developing 2.4 for NPL 16:20 paul it's not really private 16:20 kados it's not really private 16:20 chris yeah its not private 16:20 paul what do you call a "private fork" ? 16:19 kados so it seems 16:19 paul thd : why ? 16:19 kados thd: no, but LibLime has one 16:19 chris no 16:19 thd kados: so would that mean that NPL would have a private fork? 16:19 paul tumer: that's what is about to happend in fact ! 16:19 kados tumer: because I already have soe translations of it :-) 16:19 kados that makes sense 16:19 tumer why not get dev_week with NPL templates and for USA only without translations etc 16:19 chris and not make a 2.4.x release which we will have to try and maintain 16:18 chris so lets work on getting rel_3_0 installable and stable for developers 16:18 kados chris: that's fine with me 16:18 chris in dev_week, get sync'ed to rel_3_0 16:18 kados thd: no, but I might be able to afford to hire another programmer 16:17 chris as long as the fixes/improvements we make 16:17 thd kados: do you mean that if you had sponsorship you could work more hours? 16:17 chris but i dont think we need to spend time effort on packaging a releas of it 16:17 kados yep 16:17 chris he needs to get dev_week out to some clients 16:17 kados :-) 16:17 chris i wasnt meaning for kados to work on it 16:17 paul (i take care of incomes for us ;-) ) 16:17 paul (hdl is tired, he did some hard stuf for some hard clients, so is happy to code again & toins is just here to code) 16:16 chris ok, well imo we should be working towards a 3.0 release 16:16 paul I have some resources (mainly toins + hdl) 16:16 paul 2nd build a strong installer to have an easy installation. 16:16 kados my problem is that I've exausted all of my resources just getting to where we are ... I can't focus on development for the rest of the year, I need to do some sales, etc. 16:15 chris no 16:15 paul 1st have a stable version that can be installed by developers. 16:15 thd chris: is slef not working on that? 16:15 paul one step after the other chris... 16:15 tumer a proper updater as well 16:15 chris before we can release anything 16:15 chris someone needs to work on making the installer work 16:14 paul and 2.4 is just 2.2+zebra, which is not interesting small libraries, that are happy with sql only 16:14 tumer if we have clean code working than we should use it! 16:14 kados paying libraries? 16:14 paul but libraries are waiting for 3.0 ! 16:13 paul I already said I won't release 2.4 here for frenchies. 16:13 chris thats the next big thing 16:13 chris id like an installable version of either :-) 16:13 paul what time line for which version ? 16:13 thd exactly 16:12 paul that was my next question ;-) 16:12 tumer so why release 2.4 and not 3? 16:12 chris then rel_3_0 will be dev_week plus all of san-ops improvements 16:12 chris if ppl keeping commiting to dev_week, and toins keeps syncing 16:12 kados ok, I"ll commit asap 16:11 paul so, i'm waiting imptiently for what is still missing ;-) 16:11 chris in that case, its all good then 16:11 chris ohh cool 16:11 thd I have an idea for the language problem 16:11 paul on a "daily" basis. 16:11 tumer i think kados will keep on committing whenever we sync 16:11 paul toins already synch. 16:11 kados well I need to commit the search stuff for sure 16:11 paul :) 16:11 kados hehe 16:11 chris by we i meant not me :) 16:11 chris or do we wait for kados to commit a few more things? 16:10 chris do we try to sync dev_week to rel_3_0 now 16:10 chris the question then becomes 16:09 paul yes & no thd. that's not the biggest problem, even if that's one. they need to organize teaching, plann the deployment, buy a server... 16:08 tumer head is in sync except acquisitions 16:08 thd paul: does SAN have to decide tomorrow about extending its legacy ILS contract? 16:08 kados but if someone else can do this, more power to them 16:08 tumer i have done that 16:07 kados and I found it was impossible for me 16:07 kados at one point several months ago I attempted to merge rel_3_0 (then head) and dev_week 16:06 tumer my circ is faster than ever 16:06 tumer i do everything in marc 16:06 kados s/or/of/ 16:06 kados NPL does a huge amount or circ 16:06 kados tumer: also, you aren't doing any circ, right? 16:06 tumer yes i know, mine is better:) 16:06 kados tumer: what's your's? 16:06 kados tumer: I have a different script I think :-) 16:05 tumer kados:i have it in production works smoothly 16:05 kados I've got a script that runs every 5 minutes and I think that works well but hasn't been tested in a production environment 16:05 paul chris is right here. 16:05 thd kados: but you must have had some thought as a basis for suggesting 'impossible' 16:05 chris i dont think there will be conflict between their work and the catalogue/search stuff 16:05 kados how to keep biblioitems.marc, items, and zebra index in synch 16:04 chris and fines/overdues etc 16:04 kados there is one big issue to resolve 16:04 chris SAN-OP have been working mainly in the members side 16:04 kados I don't know :-) 16:04 paul why wouldn't it ? 16:04 paul (& won't probably never become a lover ;-) ) 16:04 kados I can't evaluate whether what we've got will work for SAN 16:03 paul although i'm still not a friend of zebra 16:03 paul I begin to understand it too, & hdl & toins too. 16:03 kados and I'm not a programmer :-) 16:02 kados the problem we're facing is that only tumer and I understand how to use zebra 16:02 tumer by head i think paul means rel_3 16:01 paul so I really need to have a clear view of what has to be done 16:01 thd kados: what had prompted you to think the differences in Biblio.pm between 2.4 and 3.0 are 'impossible'? 16:01 paul it is VERY important, because SAN will decide tomorrow wether they go to Koha on january 1st or not. 16:00 paul so, kados, are we missing something ? 16:00 paul my idea/goal being to reach a stable branch asap, for SAN-OP 16:00 toins except the code not commit by SAN ... 16:00 paul - it is synch'ed with dev_week by toins 15:59 kados ok, I"m back 15:59 toins except today commit 15:59 paul - it contains all head enhancements (the one from SAN-OP, and some from me) 15:59 paul - it contains everything from rel_2_2, toins takes care of it 15:59 paul to summarize rel_3_0 15:58 tumer kados:?? 15:57 paul are we missing something ? 15:57 toins i haven't test authorities.. just searching the catalogue from opac or librarian interface 15:57 paul kados ? your opinion ? 15:56 tumer so no problem than 15:56 toins tumer: rel_3_0 still work with zebra 15:56 paul it already works, toins is playing with it daily ! 15:56 tumer so rel_3 can start working with zebra withminor changes 15:55 toins tumer: yes 15:55 toins currently Biblio.pm from dev_week & from rel_3_0 are quite the same 15:55 tumer the dev_week biblio could almost work as it is with rel_3 15:55 paul do you mean the API has been so deeply modified ? 15:54 paul ? 15:54 paul but if we do a copy/paste, won't it work N 15:54 kados thd: everything in Biblio.pm 15:54 thd kados: what do you mean by Biblio stuff? 15:54 tumer it should not be that difficult 15:53 kados for search, should be quite simple 15:53 kados it will need to be re-written IMO 15:53 kados for Biblio stuff it's nearly impossible 15:53 paul do you think it's impossible/complex/quite complex/quite easy/easy ? 15:52 paul ok, so i'll ask toins to port zebra things to rel_3_0 15:52 kados only 15:52 kados not mostly 15:52 kados right 15:52 paul right ? 15:52 kados toins has spent a long time making this very different from dev_week which is branched from rel_2_2 15:52 paul and you're is mostly 2.2 + zebra 15:52 kados code cleanup 15:51 kados templates 15:51 kados new db structure 15:51 kados it's the former head with all the new features 15:51 paul in what is it completly different ? 15:51 kados where not? :-) 15:51 paul where ? 15:51 kados but rel_3_0 is completely different! 15:50 paul if you think it's stable, then, I'll ask toins to port everything to rel_3_0. 15:50 thd paul: if the solution to the first is good enough then you need a faster or load balancing server 15:50 kados paul: so it's a challenge 15:50 kados paul: I agree, but we can't agree on what features to pursue as a group! 15:50 paul so we really need to reach a 1 branch only to join our strenghtes. 15:49 thd paul: the first is satisfied with a good set of language dependent defaults with some differing options 15:49 paul and we all agree we miss some ressources. 15:49 kados I anticipate official release to be in November 15:49 kados and two other libraries in November 15:49 toins and it will be a 2.4 release ? 15:49 paul because the main question I have is : we have 3 branches atm (+2.2) 15:49 kados NPL goes live first week in October 15:49 kados nearly 15:48 paul would you say it's stable ? 15:48 kados go ahead paul 15:48 paul what is the status of this version ? 15:48 paul yes, me !!! 15:48 paul - CPU consumming 15:48 kados anyone have any additional things to say about dev_week? 15:48 paul - complexity for the library 15:48 paul thd : we have 2 problems here : 15:48 kados ok, I will commit what I have 15:47 thd kados: you can variablise anything as you pointed out during devel week 15:47 paul because seing the code, a new idea could emerge 15:47 paul but I encourage you to commit what is already done 15:47 paul i'm afraid I don't 15:47 kados does anyone have suggestions for how to solve this problem 15:47 kados as tumer points out 15:47 kados so the problem is duplicated in the MARC details page already 15:46 tumer we have multi lingual opac which only returns english labels for MARC details pages same problem? 15:46 kados so we need a way to translate labels stored in the database 15:46 chris but the other ones will have to wait for 3.0 or 3.2 15:46 chris will be good for our libraries that only have 1 or 2 copies of each thing... they wont notice 15:46 kados tumer: exactly 15:45 kados chris: it's too MARC_centric 15:45 chris yep 15:45 kados chris: yes, but 2.4 won't have that ability 15:45 chris apart from that (and unfortunately thats a big thing for them) it rocks 15:45 tumer yes but marc_labels are also teh same 15:45 kados tumer: because when you switch languages the strings aren't translated 15:45 thd chris: the inspirational model has been very well play tested but kados has some improvements you cannot guess until you perform a search using words often considered stop words on some systems 15:44 chris is the repeating biblios 15:44 kados tumer: yes, but that approach doesn't work with multiple language opacs 15:44 tumer so they can be in any language 15:44 tumer kados:i have a similar one in head but those are just labels read from a user defined table 15:44 chris http://zoomopac.liblime.com/search?&qf=it&do=Search&r=1 15:43 chris the only problem the libraries i work with are going to have with it is 15:43 kados all of those options are hardcoded as references to arrays of hashes and such so that in the template you don't have any of the variables stored 15:42 chris first off, let me say that looks really good 15:42 kados Keyword, Author, Author Phrase, etc. 15:42 kados there is: 15:42 kados in the advanced search 15:42 kados for instance 15:41 tumer what is hard coded 15:41 tumer kados:i am loosing you 15:41 thd kados: so it would be trivial to variablise them all 15:40 kados but I wanted to agree on a data structure before doing that 15:40 kados easy to convert to database table entries 15:40 kados right now all of the search options are hard-coded as hash references 15:39 kados click on advanced search 15:39 paul maybe you could commit as it is & looking in the code will give us some ideas 15:39 thd kados: you had a fine idea during dev_week 15:39 kados so for example, take a look at zoomopac.liblime.com 15:39 tumer kados what translation 15:39 kados thd: no 15:39 kados so I am eager for ideas for how to do that 15:38 tumer ? 15:38 thd kados: do you plan to integrate the improved features into your old Zebra search as well? 15:38 kados a way to translate the labels of search points into other languages 15:38 kados only one thing prevents me from committing 15:38 kados it also takes many things out of the template to allow a librarian to customize how a search looks and works 15:37 kados and more completely uses CCL as a query language 15:37 kados there is a new search API which is not entirely committed but is much simpler than the old zebra one 15:36 kados as you all know, I've been working on dev_week quite a lot, mainly with searching 15:36 kados I can start 15:36 paul hdl is not here ? 15:36 kados sure 15:36 paul so we could go to head/rel_3_0/dev_week questions ? 15:36 chris we could release patches, and see 15:36 kados tumer: I like the patches idea, maybe we can explore it in the future 15:35 thd patches are only difficult to apply if they are difficult to apply 15:35 paul good news ! 15:35 tumer well i am not sure about patches feeling 15:35 kados ok, great ... so we all agree :-) 15:35 paul yes, 100% 15:35 kados paul: do you agree with chris? 15:35 kados paul: ok 15:34 paul I agree with : "I've a feeling they're too hard to apply for users" 15:34 kados chris: I agree 15:34 chris no i meant that a 404 error reported after a release, with 2 workarounds isnt enough to trigger another immediate release .. but it certainly should be fixed before the next release .. if it was discovered before the release, it would block it 15:34 tumer any new release is quite nerve recking when installing a patch may not be 15:34 kados paul: what do you agree with? 15:33 thd chris: did you mean that user reported bugs are often qualitatively different to bugs already known to developers? 15:33 paul I agree. 15:33 tumer and a tar containing only the debugged bits 15:33 kados I've a feeling they're too hard to apply for users 15:33 kados we've never done patches before 15:33 tumer yes 15:32 toins tumer: so a 22.214.171.124 then a 126.96.36.199 ? 15:32 tumer yes 15:32 kados tumer: do you mean a patch? 15:31 tumer not arelease but may be just an update of debugged 15:31 chris yes 15:31 kados (maybe language translations too) 15:31 kados with nothing but bugfixes 15:30 kados then, maybe a month or two later, do another release 15:30 chris yes 15:30 kados I think it would make sense to do a release with no known blocker bugs 15:30 thd_ chris: how do before and after release bugs differ qualitatively? 15:29 tumer chris++ 15:29 paul but a tinyurl bugzilla could be enough 15:29 chris any bugs that are 500 or 404 errors leading up to a release are blockers and should be fixed before the release 15:29 owen Have fun everyone, I'll catch up in the logs 15:29 paul bugzilla is not considered as very friendly by most librarians. 15:28 russ paul: cant you make a release in bugzilla and use a bugzilla report? 15:28 paul (but not in the next days) 15:28 tumer together with workorounds 15:28 thd_ chris:what is the difference for those 2 types of bugs? 15:28 paul maybe we could have a wiki page to point every bug we know and that will be fixed in next release ? 15:27 chris ie as he said, we wouldnt do a release just to fix that 15:27 paul chris: ++ 15:27 chris its not in category 2 15:27 chris pauls example above is a blocker in category 1 15:27 kados yep 15:27 chris 2/ Bugs reported just after a release 15:27 chris 1/ Bugs reported leading up to a release 15:26 chris i think the confusion is, there are 2 different types of bugs 15:26 paul having a monthly release is too much for most libraries. 15:26 thd_ ? 15:26 thd_ paul: do I understand correctly that your users expect a reasonably consistent release schedule 15:26 tumer well at leat an official release should confirm taht at least one of the templates is working 15:26 chris the difference is that bugs are quite different before and after a release 15:26 kados if we were doing monthly releases we could do as defined on that page 15:26 chris BUT 15:26 kados up till now we've been doing releases every 4-6 months 15:25 chris under those definitiions pauls above isnt actually a blocker 15:25 thd_ kados: I think for paul it is actually a similar problem as you 15:24 owen What do you know... there's definitions on koha.org: http://www.koha.org/community/bugzilla.html 15:24 paul it's not a matter of leaving it, it's a matter of official releasing. 15:24 paul however, I 100% agree, i maybe rock as developper, but I suck as vendor... 15:24 tumer paul: if you know the bug why leave it? If you dont its not a blocjer until reported 15:23 paul in this case, it's easier to fix it, in CVS. but releasing just for this is using a rocket bomb to kill a fly (imho) 15:23 kados it blocks the user from feeling like Koha is stable 15:23 owen I remember seeing a good definition of the bug categories a while back, I wish I could remember where I saw it 15:22 chris thats not a blocker if you remove the broken way 15:22 kados it's about perception of the software 15:22 paul but it's not blocking 15:22 tumer and its frustating 15:22 paul I agree it's stupid, silly, and marketing unproductive. 15:22 tumer yes but they do not know that 15:22 owen True... 15:22 paul but it's NOT blocking users. They have 2 workaround, one of them having just 1 more clic ! 15:22 owen If we had known about that bug, I would have considered it a blocker. 15:22 tumer not blocking for programmers blocking for users 15:21 owen The thing about blockers...they're only blockers if you know about them 15:21 paul not blocking for me, blocking for kados 15:21 kados does anyone agree with paul that the example he cited above is not a blocker? 15:21 paul just 1 more clic 15:21 paul circulation => view member => edit 15:21 paul thus you could do : 15:21 paul (not a 404, but something that did not work) 15:21 tumer priority i mean 15:21 paul BUT it was broken in 2.2.4 15:20 paul circulation => edit member 15:20 paul you could do it from : 15:20 tumer if you know it than correct it, if nobody noticed than its pririty bug when reported 15:20 paul you usually do that from members => search => view detail => modify 15:20 chris 404 is easy, tahts always a blocker 15:20 paul modifying a patron. 15:20 paul example (existing in 2.2.4 iirc) 15:19 paul for example, something that is usually reached from somewhere, but can be reached from somewhere else. 15:19 kados tumer: that's what we're arguing about :-) 15:19 tumer 404 or 500 is "blocker" right? 15:19 kados chris: sounds good to me 15:19 tumer what is an aceptable 500 error as owen says? 15:19 chris if we know it doesnt work .. why point people at it 15:18 chris yes 15:18 kados same with 404 errors I assume 15:18 chris does that sound reasonable? 15:18 chris so that you can only do it the other way 15:18 owen Unless paul (or someone) can provide an example of an acceptable 500 error, I'm inclined to agree that any 500 error is a blocker. 15:17 chris then the link to the 500 error page should be removed 15:17 chris but if it can be done another way 15:17 kados 'block' even 15:17 chris i think if something is known to 500 error 15:17 kados thd: that's not quite the issue here ... it's more that paul and I disagree over what should 'bock' a release 15:16 paul yes 15:16 thd kados: can we provide multiple types of blocking bugs in bugzilla? 15:16 chris yes 15:16 kados I think we all agree that 'blocker' means 'can't do a release until it's fixed', right? 15:16 kados so how can we resolve this difference of opinion for the official definition of a blocker bug? 15:16 thd ? 15:16 thd Is there no way to add an additional blocked for kados reasons 1 and 2 as options 15:16 chris might be better to do the redirect in the koha-httpd.conf 15:16 kados IIRC it's not by default in debian 15:15 chris yeah 15:15 kados ahh, so you have to have that enabled in apache chris 15:15 chris ahh 15:15 toins currently a ".htaccess" is used to redirect when an error occured 15:15 kados maybe just for 2.2.6 ... /me isn't sure 15:15 chris or does it do that for 2.2.6? 15:15 chris hmm but not set by default? 15:15 kados chris: I think we have that already 15:15 toins chris: i think 500.html is already done 15:15 kados so how can we resolve this difference of opinion for the official definition of a blocker bug? 15:14 chris that says things like check the error logs, report bugs at bugs.koha.org etc 15:14 thd kados: I do not impute your motives of course, and I understand that users may perceive most anything as blocking including being troubled by colour choice in the default CSS 15:14 chris we should make a 500.html page, and set apache to use that for 500 errors 15:14 paul kados: yes. 15:14 chris speaking of 500 errors 15:13 tumer i agree with kados 15:13 kados paul: is that a fair characterization? 15:13 kados paul thinks that it's ok as long as there is a workaround somewhere else 15:13 kados so just to be clear on the point that paul and I disagree on 15:13 thd kados: I agree that paul's concept of blocking as the traditional concept 15:12 tumer yes but i think any official release should not have 404 or 500 and just give notice 15:12 kados so I'm not sure I 100% agree with thd on my motives :-) 15:12 paul but I know kados & me disagree here 15:12 paul for 1 & 2, i would add => and that can't be done in another way with Koha. 15:12 kados I think all of the bugs I've marked as a blocker are one of those three 15:11 kados 3. anything causing data loss 15:11 kados 2. a function that doesn't work as advertised (like acquisitions in rel_2_2) 15:11 kados 1. any 500 or 404 error and a link that leads to such 15:10 kados to me a blocker is: 15:10 kados hmmm 15:10 thd kados: I think we should have some additional value to indicate blocked for marketing 15:09 kados (paul, since acquisitions is broken, that should be acknoledged as well in release notes) 15:09 thd some people namely kados are considering bugs blocking if it blocks there ability to market their services yet the program functions 15:09 kados thd: what is your perception of this topic? 15:08 thd I have a concern about competing concepts of blocking bugs 15:08 paul ok, then we all agree, so i've nothing to add to 2.2.6 15:08 kados yes, so long as the relase notes clearly define what we know is broken 15:07 paul (with proper release notes warning for unfixed problems) ? 15:07 paul ? 15:07 paul those bugs fixed or not fixed, do you agree for a 2.2.6 official release 15:07 paul ok. 15:07 toins chris: ok 15:07 chris so be ready for you tomorrow france time 15:07 kados same here 15:07 chris toins/paul: ill put comments on the bugs after the meeting 15:06 kados cool 15:06 chris all the way back from 1999 15:06 chris not even joking :) 15:06 kados hehe 15:06 kados sent on Sept 06 15:06 kados "about bugs in rel_2_2" 15:05 chris whats the subject line? 15:05 kados ahh ... I see now 15:05 chris yeah i didnt notice it either 15:05 toins kados: "about bugs in rel_2_2" 15:05 toins i'have writed a sum up on koha-devel 15:05 chris hmm i dont recall that 15:05 kados which email? 15:04 paul toins sended a mail to koha-devel, but you didn't answer 15:04 chris hmm, ill look through those after the meeting and put in answers 15:04 kados ok 15:04 paul and all of them waiting for an answer from you or chris. 15:04 kados so maybe we should schedule a bug squash meeting? 15:04 paul only 7 being blo or critical. 15:03 paul I can see 33 bugs still open & related to rel_2_2 15:03 kados paul++ 15:03 paul i've worked on bugzilla, to clean all bugs declared affected to me. 15:03 kados good news 15:03 paul they reported me 2 unimarc specific problems, and nothing more. 15:03 paul i've installed 2.2.6RC3 (unofficial RC) to 1 of my library. 15:02 kados sure let's begin, take us away paul 15:02 kados ok, that can be in the rel_2_2 section 15:02 paul & maybe we could start with this. 15:02 paul (to add to the agenda) 15:02 paul just some words about 2.2.6 15:01 kados paul: true :-) 15:01 paul yes, but the content quite huge ! 15:01 thd maybe if my system s finished thrashing 15:01 kados anyone have anything they'd like to add before we get started? 15:01 kados so the agenda's pretty slim 15:01 kados cool ... I'd say that quorum 15:00 kados hehe 15:00 tumer me 2 15:00 paul (and tumer seems to have started ;-) ) 15:00 alaurin yes 15:00 chris me 15:00 tumer yep 15:00 kados roll call first ... who's here? 15:00 kados everyone ready to start the meeting? 15:00 tumer thd: i have modifieds it to save invoice number 14:59 tumer paul:Catalogue API is finished , works with prog templates 14:59 thd tumer: and they have invoice numbers saved? 14:59 tumer i can find things in DB directly 14:57 paul tumer : just create a strong & stable API for catalogue, and we will take care of acquisition module on rel_3_0, with prog templates. 14:55 thd tumer: can you find the order in the DB the directly? 14:55 kados MEETING AGENDA: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=agendandnotes06sep13 14:55 tumer well i add an order but when i search for it i do not get it back so i cannot go further than there 14:54 toins prog template aren't good enough for you ? ;-) 14:54 toins tumer: what's your problem exactly ? 14:54 kados T-MINUS 5 minutes to Koha Meeting 14:53 toins e 14:53 toins heh 14:53 tumer well i am still struggling as dewey says 14:52 toins default & npl template has been deleted on this branch 14:52 toins rel_3_0 can only work with prog template 14:52 tumer let me rephrase that: is it the prog templates that supposed to work cause some modules seem to work with default templates and some not 14:52 toins i can't test now, this computer hasen't koha installed 14:51 toins tumer: normally all should be almost good on rel_3 acquisitions.... 14:50 tumer toins: i cannot get rel_3 acquisitions to work have you tested it all? 14:49 tumer well i have found code that budgets are defined to end in July unless you set it 14:49 toins_ tumer: yep 14:48 chris and australia 14:48 chris nz is GST 14:48 paul in France, we have jan => dec 14:48 tumer toins are you here? 14:48 paul the budgets are as you want tumer. 14:48 tumer also acquisitions sets the beginning of budgets or end of budgets to end of June (where for us its January, Brits April and so on) 14:46 tumer sorry paul my broken french 14:46 dewey rumour has it hi tumer is still strugling 14:46 toins_ hi tumer 14:46 paul france is TVA 14:46 tumer toins_:hi my man!! 14:45 tumer which country is it that uses GST, Brits use VAT Fench use TAV (i think) we use KDV who is GST? 14:42 chris :-) 14:42 alaurin tumer is winning 14:42 paul 9:41PM here 14:42 tumer 22:41 in Cyprus 14:41 chris 7.41 am here :) 14:41 paul rel_2 works 14:41 paul hello chris (not really morning here) 14:41 tumer paul:do you know any rel_? that acquisitions properly work? 14:40 chris morning 14:40 btoumi hi all 14:40 paul hi alaurin 14:40 paul tumer : i don't understand 14:39 alaurin hi everybody 14:38 tumer well they do not, actually acquisitions dont work any working branch? 14:38 paul although I did not test them at all 14:38 paul tumer: you should ask toins, but PROG templates are supposed to work. 14:38 paul i've removed opac/default in rel_2_2 14:37 tumer paul:i am having problems with rel_3 acquisitions does it work and with which templates do you know 14:37 kados paul: in what branch? 14:37 paul but I won't succed i'm "afraid" ;-) 14:37 paul I try to beat tumer as the largest commiter in a few minuts. 14:31 tumer[A] owen ++ for template 14:30 kados :-) 13:19 kados no ... they will be at the meeting 13:18 tumer but they are probably asleep 13:18 kados maybe add your questions to the meeting agenda? 13:18 kados and hdl 13:18 kados pauls' better for acquisitions anyway 13:18 tumer k, acquisitions questions later than 13:18 btoumi good lunch kados 13:18 kados tumer: I'll be back in 30 minutes or so 13:18 kados tumer: not at the moment, I'm headed out to get lunch 13:17 btoumi yes 13:17 tumer staying for IRC? 13:17 btoumi peraphs i ask u something tommorow 13:17 tumer see you tonight btoumi 13:17 btoumi ok thanks tumer: and kados for yr answer 13:16 tumer kados:have some time? 13:15 tumer we currently use 2Ghz pentium 1Gb memory (2 will be better) with RAID SCSI disks 13:14 btoumi we take a 6go or 8 go ram i think 13:13 tumer firdt time indexing about 200Mb is very good 13:13 btoumi yes i think so in migration part 13:13 tumer i mean indexing the first time (all the records) 13:12 btoumi but zebra don't indexing all the time? 13:12 tumer but for server i checked it even at busy times it never recahes 36Mb limit 13:11 tumer for indexing at first you need as much as you can give 13:11 btoumi tumer: 13:11 btoumi we need only 36 Mb RAM for zebra u think 13:10 tumer zebra search is miliseconds, retrieval is slower 13:10 tumer about 36 Mb at maximumum 13:10 btoumi ah ok 13:09 tumer no zebra uses very small memory 13:09 tumer but we fixed opacs to return 10 results per page 13:09 btoumi but zebra use lot of memory ? 13:08 btoumi ok 13:08 tumer with zebra whether you are searching 200k records or 100k its the same 13:07 btoumi ;=) 13:07 tumer and kados did not give me space to try on his server:( 13:07 btoumi ok 13:06 tumer never managed to get linux running 13:06 tumer windows server 13:06 btoumi tumer: do u have windows server or linux server? 13:06 btoumi it's a solution 13:05 btoumi ok it's a good thinks 13:05 tumer yes i think its better to have them running on different disks 13:05 btoumi in different disk 13:04 btoumi tumer: uthink that separate zebra and mysql is a good think 13:04 tumer have zebra running on a differnt disk than mysql and it works fine 13:03 tumer btoumi:we have more than 200K records at the momemt, with zebra even one server is very satisfactory 13:02 btoumi yep 13:01 kados which is why we choose Zebra in the first place :-) 13:01 kados and the db 13:01 kados in the code 13:01 kados the problem is one of design 13:01 kados and even then, there's only so much you can do 13:00 kados it's also necessary to fine tune mysql 13:00 kados I don't think throwing more hardware will help much 12:59 btoumi peraph's the best 12:59 btoumi i think it's good solution 12:57 btoumi and he said me that we can choose quadriprocessor 8 go ram 4 scsi disc 12:56 btoumi we discuss about this with paul 12:56 btoumi but i think we work with only one server 12:55 kados or else it will be quite slow 12:55 kados 2. do mysql replication 12:55 kados 1. use 2.4 (with zebra) 12:55 kados for that size you will need to either: 12:55 kados ahh, yes 12:55 btoumi ~250000 notice 12:54 kados how many records do you have in the collection>? 12:54 btoumi ok 12:54 kados only KOha 12:54 btoumi ? 12:54 btoumi your server works only with koha or u have another web site or other applications 12:53 kados it worked quite well 12:53 kados and all search requests were performed on the slaves 12:52 kados two were slaves (read only) 12:52 kados one server was master (all writes) 12:52 kados with mysql replication 12:52 kados we had three servers set up: 12:52 kados in the past we did something similar 12:52 btoumi ok 12:51 kados not currently 12:51 btoumi for example one server for mysql 12:51 btoumi do u have different serveur? 12:51 kados it has 4 gigs of ram and 10000RPM drives, and a 2GHZ processor 12:50 kados it's the one that zoomopac.liblime.com is running on 12:50 kados the new server is much nicer 12:50 kados and 7200RPM drives (slow) 12:50 kados 900MHZ I mean 12:50 kados it is a 99MHZ Pentium with about 2 gigs of RAM 12:49 kados the current Koha server is quite old 12:49 kados the other interal interface provides a DMZ for all the servers 12:49 btoumi ? 12:49 btoumi what sort of server do u have for koha 12:49 kados then an internal router does NAT on one interface for the LAN 12:48 kados there is one gateway router to the internet ... which is provided by the state 12:47 kados I can tell you how we have NPL set up 12:47 kados (I work at liblime.com now) 12:47 btoumi ok 12:47 kados (also, I don't work for a library anymore :-)) 12:47 btoumi sorry for my english 12:47 kados network materials? 12:47 btoumi can i have some details about network materials u use in ure library? 12:46 btoumi ok now 12:46 kados now is a good time for me 12:46 btoumi like u want u decide u are the boss ;=) 12:45 kados btoumi: sure 12:45 btoumi ok i think so but i u check ure email we can see about this tommorow 12:44 dewey i already had it that way, kados. 12:44 kados btoumi: now is a good time 12:44 btoumi kados: sorry i ve lost my connexion 12:42 kados hehe 12:42 kados btoumi: now is a good time 12:42 btoumi kados: when u have time can i ask u some details about koha server needs 12:41 tumer see you than, i am working on acquisitions module 12:41 kados T-MINUS 2 HOURS 40 MINUTES TO KOHA MEETING 12:40 kados you're right 12:40 tumer i think 2 hrs 40 minutes to GMT 20:00 12:40 btoumi hi kados: 12:39 tumer are you sure about this timing? 12:38 kados T-MINUS 40 MINUTES TO KOHA MEETING 12:38 tumer btoumi:i have been very busy lately, how are you in general? 12:38 kados I think that's in about 40 minutes, right? 12:37 kados there is a meeting at GMT 20:00 12:37 tumer do you know is there a meeting? 12:37 btoumi tumer: yes i konw 12:36 btoumi tumer: hi tumer how are u tonight? 12:35 tumer btoumi:is there a meeting tonight? 12:35 btoumi kados: are u around?