Time Nick Message
11:25 toins bye world
11:01 paul I hope, but am not sure yet
11:00 owen Does that mean it works for folks who have the official directory structure but not for CVS?
10:56 paul i'm afraid there is a problem with directories, depending on whether you have a CVS or a official directory structure
10:55 owen Yes, but I am trying to get it to work
10:55 paul owen : if you looked carefully, I said it was not guaranteed to work.
10:55 owen intranet-tmpl/patronimages?
10:54 owen The script says my $destdir = C4::Context->config('intrahtdocs') . "/patronimages";
10:54 owen Anyone here know where the new patronimages script is expecting to put stuff?
08:46 thd paul: oh I understood required to avoid the bug :)
08:45 paul the rest was just a SUGGESTION, not related to the bug
08:45 paul but it's fixed now.
08:45 paul any record, when you tried to duplicate a 0xx field.
08:44 thd paul: do you have an example of a MARC 21 authority record which is confusing the Koha code does not work for bug # 1128?
08:44 paul (or use OpenCataloger that will solve this kind of problem ;-) )
08:43 paul so, for marc21 you have very very large forms & it was a bad idea to remove the tab system. We could reintroduce them.
08:40 thd paul: yes, but MARC 21 is similar using 1XX instead of 2XX
08:39 paul i'm speaking of UNIMARC ;-)
08:39 thd paul: MARC 21 records can be more complex for authorities
08:39 thd paul: yes you are
08:39 paul unless i'm mistaken, in unimarc, i'm speaking of real world records !
08:38 paul just, for example, 0xx, 250, 350, 450, 550.
08:38 thd paul: is it not better to have more robust scripting that can manage to cope with real world records
08:38 paul that makes really smaller forms !
08:38 paul so, when you create your authority framework, you can activate just 1 of them.
08:38 paul in UNIMARC, you can't have 200 & 210 & 230 & 250 on the same authority.
08:37 paul none. it's just that I suggested to remove marc tags to have a lighter form.
08:37 thd paul: yes I have read that bug but it has no example of the MARC 21 authority record which causes the problem
08:36 paul look at http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1128
08:36 thd paul: are you finding that titles together with personal names creates a problem?
08:35 thd paul: you mentioned titles together with personal names
08:35 paul and in UNIMARC such a form is impossible, for the reason I gave in bugzilla.
08:34 paul I don't see any problem thd, i just see a very very large authority form.
08:34 thd paul: is the problem that you are seeing with MARC 21 authorities where a personal name authority has 100 $a Someone $d born- $t Some title ?
08:24 thd kados are you back from coffee?
08:18 kados brb
08:12 kados esp today :-)
08:12 toins kados, ok
08:12 kados toins: as it will be volitile for a while :-)
08:12 kados toins: wait to sync until next week I think
08:12 toins i'll daily syncronize your commit on head....
08:12 kados hehe
08:12 kados so if we want cql and pqf they will be a separate script
08:11 kados (at least for me :-))
08:11 kados it turns out it's too complex to maintain three query syntaxes with one script :-)
08:11 toins ok
08:11 kados now it's going to be 100% ccl
08:11 toins ah...
08:10 toins kados, yep
08:10 kados toins: don't work too much on searching in HEAD as I just re-wrote the API (again!) :-)
08:10 kados toins: are you there?
08:09 kados but free is better of course :-)
08:08 kados because I have some budget for paying a translator also
08:08 kados ok
08:08 paul but I could investigate a little (after holidays)
08:08 paul nope.
08:08 kados in fact, if WIPO won't do it, do you know anyone who would?
08:07 paul that would ease a lot future versions of 2.2.x
08:07 paul (anna, from CMI would be very happy with this. if it happends, I think I could switch to npl templates for future support of 2.2.x
08:06 kados yep :-)
08:06 paul (that would be nice to have npl in french ;-) )
08:06 kados yes
08:06 paul you mean all the 7 official languages ?
08:06 kados (and not sure if they still work on this)
08:06 kados but WIPO has not finished translating them :(
08:05 kados I had hoped to have all UN languages for NPL templates too
08:05 paul no, i missed this
08:04 kados did you see the hungarian in npl templates?
08:03 kados cool :-)
08:03 kados I will test the new basket problem
08:03 paul you're welcome
08:03 kados ok, thanks for clarification
08:03 kados right
08:03 paul so if you run updatedatabase once again, you'll have nothing done, as the table already exist
08:03 kados I understand now
08:02 kados right
08:02 paul as no official release has been done, I just modify the updatedatabase, in CREATE table part.
08:02 paul in 2 days, I realize a field is missing.
08:02 paul you'll get it when updating your cvs copy. and create it through updatedatabase
08:02 kados ok
08:02 paul suppose this morning I create a new table, through updatedatabase.
08:01 paul ok, I explain once again :
08:01 kados I still don't understand your updatedatabase comment :-)
08:01 kados thanks for fixing the bug
08:01 kados perhaps they could be made smaller
08:00 kados but perhaps I should speak with thd about trimming them into discreet types
08:00 kados for instance
08:00 kados you can have 'personal name' field, that also includes a 'title' :-)
08:00 kados no ...
08:00 paul all of them in the same authority category ? really strange (& weird)
08:00 kados paul: but ... you can have in the same record, different types
07:59 kados paul: things are similarly logical as with Unimarc
07:59 kados paul: for MARC21 Authorities, I'm afraid they have many fields :(
07:57 paul (I mean blocking one)
07:57 paul all the bugs affected to me have an answer (& waiting for something from you or someone else)
07:57 kados looking now
07:57 paul did you see my answers on bugzilla ?
07:57 paul hi owen
07:57 paul "morning to you joshua.
07:57 owen Hi paul and kados
07:57 kados paul: yep
07:56 paul kados around ?
07:00 paul ;-)
06:57 slef So, yet again, English proves that most of its phrases have no known meaning ;-)
06:57 slef The most likely origin of this idiom is the episode of Homer's Odyssey in which Odysseus and his crew is caught between Scylla and Charybdis.
06:55 slef It's a nice story, but the problem is that "between the devil and the deep blue sea" was used by landlubbers for at least 200 years before
06:55 slef http://www.word-detective.com/back-l2.html
06:55 slef the "devil" in this phrase is not Old Nick -- it was sailor's slang for a seam around the hull of an old sailing ship, all the way down by the waterline. The seams of wooden ships required periodic caulking with pitch (a tar-like substance) lest they develop leaks, and often this caulking had to be done while the ship was at sea. A sailor lowered over the side to caulk "the devil" found himself in a very precarious position indeed -- "between
06:54 slef s/devil/anvil/ ; yes, I think the rock and a hard place one might be more similar, but doesn't sound so pretty ;-)
06:53 paul "hammer & devil" is not a question of choice for frenchies. It's a question of being caught whatever you do (& even if you do nothing). And harmed !
06:52 paul ah, ok !
06:52 slef well, which would you jump into?
06:52 paul ok ;-)
06:52 slef but that's too long to fit the rhythm
06:52 paul i still don't see the relation between devil & a see...
06:51 slef deep blue sea
06:51 slef Ah,
06:51 paul what is "deep blue" ?
06:51 paul why in english between "devil" & "deep blue"
06:51 paul lol
06:50 slef yeah, backwards Frenchies ;-)
06:49 paul we uses it even in 2006 ;-)
06:48 paul it's a word to word translation from french.
06:48 slef paul: it's valid in English, but I've not seen it used in anything later than 1960s.
06:25 paul slef, yes, hammer & anvil.
06:11 slef paul: was it between hammer and anvil? => in English: between the devil and the deep blue, or between a rock and a hard place
04:57 osmoze bye
04:07 osmoze va falloir que je m y mette aussi bientot en parlant de ca :/
04:07 osmoze c est des reeditions
04:07 osmoze :)
04:00 paul c'est le grand délire aujourd'hui sur #koha !!!
04:00 paul Comete: je dirai plutot des doublons, puisque dans ce cas, ce serait 2 documents identiques (même titre, même éditeur, même code barre). Par contre, les exemplaires, s'ils sont rattachés à la même notice bibliographique "poulain", ont leurs spécificité (code barre différent : 29/09/95 pour le 1er, 14/09/00 pour le second et 01/10/04 pour le 3eme)
03:58 paul lol
03:58 osmoze déformation professionnelle :)
03:56 Comete ou des exemplaires non ? :)
03:55 paul heu... on appelle ca des jumeaux. les doublons, c'est sur un ordinateur ou dans un catalogue de bibliothèque ;-)
03:55 osmoze des doublons...
03:55 osmoze il aurait manqué plus que ca !
03:54 paul une seule chose est sûre : il n'y en n'a qu'un !
03:54 paul en fait, non, ca m'est égal : une fille ce serait super, et un garçon, je sais déjà comment ca marche. Donc les 2 seront bien.
03:54 osmoze mdr :)
03:54 osmoze tu m etonnes, et toi aussi non ?
03:54 paul :-D
03:53 paul pour éviter d'être averell
03:53 paul du coup, Simon notre ainé espère vraiment une fille
03:53 osmoze lol
03:53 paul et si c'est encore un garcon, ca fera les 4 daltons.
03:53 paul ouaip
03:53 osmoze roh :) ca va faire 4 alors si mes mathematiques primaire sont bonnes
03:52 paul Tiens, une petite nouvelle, osmoze : la famille poulain va s'agrandir (en février prochain).
03:51 paul retour le 28 aout
03:51 paul vacances 2 semaines.
03:51 paul en tous cas, les pbs principaux dans l'éditeur MARC, dans les acquisitions et dans le bulletinage ont été éradiqués.
03:51 toins salut osmoze
03:51 osmoze salut toins
03:51 osmoze t es en vancances combien de temps ?
03:51 toins que de francais ce matin....
03:51 osmoze bonjour Comete
03:51 osmoze ok paul
03:51 paul hello st lo
03:50 paul encore que, je diffuserai ptet direct en 2.2.6 officielle, vu que joshua l'a déjà installée aux US
03:50 Comete bonjour à tous
03:50 paul donc ca attendra mon retour.
03:50 paul ok, sauf que je serai en congés
03:49 osmoze je la monte mercredi ou jeudi matin et vendredi c est parti
03:49 paul (hdl et kados on fait plusieurs bugfixes sur les périodiques et le bulletinage, et il en reste encore un peu)
03:49 osmoze coucou non, je dois avoir l alim mercredi qui arrive
03:48 paul sinon, je publie un 2.2.6RC3 rien que pour toi...
03:48 paul osmoze, tjs pas de retour de ta machine de tests ?
03:48 paul hello osmoze
02:41 osmoze hello #koha
02:35 toins salut hdl
02:34 dewey what's up, hdl
02:34 hdl hi
02:28 toins hi all !
20:05 thd kados: are you still there?
17:36 thd kados: they never started with those policies although they did become especially mean soon after they bought Forest press including DDC.
17:34 thd kados: OCLC is overdue for a policy change about records data and suing people for doing fun things with DDC.
17:31 thd kados: even when the libraries are members of OCLC they often have better more complete records than the ones in OCLC which they have not contributed and never will.
17:30 kados :-)
17:30 thd kados: do not worry there is better data outside OCLC. I can prove it.
17:29 kados but once it goes into OCLC, there it stays
17:29 kados thd: if they shared their data, I'd be fine with them having it all
17:29 thd kados: OCLC having all data is not terrible. What is terrible is that they want to claim ownership of almost all the data in their system.
17:27 thd johnb: I spent all my money completely travelling to Europe
17:27 kados johnb: hehe
17:27 johnb thd: unclear of question. Did not attend ALA this year, all travel money spent on some trip to France.
17:26 kados thd: that was me that was vexed :-)
17:26 thd johnb: what vexed you at the ALA convention?
17:25 johnb thd: We do not use OCLC due to the cost, though they have sent a team here to study our ops
17:25 kados thd: they are not _open_
17:25 kados thd: OCLC believes that all data should be in OCLC
17:24 thd johnb: what aspects oft OCLC do you find most vexing?
17:23 thd johnb: yet, of course we should not be restricted by mistakenly choosing some overly narrow legal statement of the purpose of the foundation.
17:22 johnb thd: anyone can form there own community, manage the community the way they want to, while still at the same time benefit for being part of a much larger community
17:21 thd johnb: I just want Katipo and HLT, and nervous potential Koha users to be able to see there way to supporting the foundation in future.
17:20 johnb thd: the beauty of the apach foundation is that they allow the different communities to run themselves with very very little oversite
17:20 thd johnb: I definitely like that idea
17:19 johnb thd well the philosophy I am following is to m ake the organization as all inclusive as possible well at the same time allowing everyone to contribute without being threatening
17:18 thd johnb: I see no reason that a foundation which includes reference to Koha cannot do other things that do not relate perfectly to what Koha does now.
17:17 thd johnb: would you be reassured if you were not directly involved?
17:16 johnb thd: good question. I do not have an answer.
17:16 Burgwork -devel
17:15 thd johnb: would Koha users be reassured by a foundation that did not include Koha in the foundation name?
17:14 thd Burgwork: do you mean your review posted on koha-devel or some other review?
17:13 Burgwork currently just produce hot air. I did a review of the OPAC interface (zoomopac)
17:12 thd Burgwork: what do you do with Koha?
17:12 Burgwork thd, just Userful
17:04 thd ?
17:04 thd Burgwork: do you work for both Userful and Katipo
17:02 thd Burgwork: have them put it under GPL V 3 next year with a few optional restrictions to ensure everyone knows that they made it and they should be happy.
17:00 thd list of possible names?
17:00 thd johnb: what list?
16:59 johnb Kados: If you want to keep the list please feel free, I am just proposing here
16:59 Burgwork thd, DiscoverStation
16:59 thd Burgwork: what is DS?
16:59 johnb We can change it to make it more exclusive
16:58 Burgwork johnb, why limit your foundation to just ils'? what about public computing projects (when I convince my work to opensource DS)
16:55 kados johnb: I could make a list on liblime.com tonight if we wanted
16:55 kados johnb: we meaning meadville? or meaning you and I :-)
16:54 johnb Kados: I think we will start a list
16:51 kados (though it is registered ... but I bet we could get it if persistant)
16:51 kados I even think we could buy oslc.org as it doesn't seem to be used
16:51 kados johnb: what do you think?
16:50 kados johnb: thought of that one at ALA while being annoyed at OCLC :-)
16:50 kados johnb: OSLC ;-)
16:50 kados johnb: the Open Source Library Consortium
16:50 kados johnb: I've got a name recommendation
16:49 johnb I will try to get the comments working tomorrow so everyone can contribute
16:49 kados I'll have a look john
16:49 johnb It is posted under http://www.meadvillelibrary.org/director and is entiled a Modest Proposal
16:49 kados cool!
16:48 johnb I have done a rough rough draft for a foundation
16:47 johnb Good evening everyone
16:47 kados johnb: how's things?
16:47 kados johnb even :-)
16:47 kados hi jon
16:47 kados thd: i agree
16:47 johnb Good evening everyone!
16:44 thd s/build/built/
16:44 thd kados: I want to ask her ideas about meta-record design as well because she has some and build what tumer proposed 28 years ago without XML.
16:42 thd kados: the major point about meta-record indexing is that it should be so efficient if it can be that Karen Coyle who knows and cares much about library system efficiency would say that Koha is using some efficient principles.
16:26 thd kados: are you still there?
16:25 thd a modest task because it has to match the class attribute usage from the wiki
16:24 thd kados: I worked on making the wiki CSS like the koha,org CSS before switching to frameworks.
16:23 thd kados: not that I finished that document.
16:22 thd kados: does that mean that you have the groundworks for http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:subject_subdivisions_access_pt1 ?
16:16 kados thd: you'll be glad to know I laid the groundworks for fully extensible facets
16:15 kados yes
16:15 thd kados: are you back from coffee?
16:10 kados but first, coffee :-)
16:10 kados still some cleanup to do
16:10 kados woot
16:10 kados heh ... facets are now done in 35 lines
15:56 kados have a good evening
15:56 kados sounds good
15:56 owen kados: I'm heading out. I'll read you in the morning.
15:45 owen Go ahead
15:39 kados owen: any objection to me hacking on navigation.inc for a bit?
15:39 kados owen: wanted to update the template
15:39 kados owen: just finished the new facets builder
15:39 kados owen: you around?
14:53 chris but now i must go to tech meeting
14:52 chris yep, reviews are committed to head already
14:50 kados 3.0'll have reviews too, right?
14:50 kados that'd be sweet
14:50 chris i need to finish my rss feed for items on issue too, and commit that
14:48 kados when I get a chance I'll release it
14:48 hdl Impressive.
14:48 kados not strictly part of Koha, but a side project of LibLime's
14:48 kados it's an opensearch->z3950 proxy
14:48 kados but the rss isn't committed yet
14:48 kados yes
14:48 hdl Is this devweek ?
14:47 kados :-)
14:47 hdl Cool.
14:47 hdl I've seen some rss features.
14:47 kados hdl: the new way is much cleaner
14:47 kados hdl: plus as I did it before it was too proc intensive
14:47 hdl Congratulations.
14:46 kados I've seen good designs with both
14:46 kados I dont' have a strong opinion on the liquid vs fixed
14:46 kados owen: that's fine ...
14:46 kados hdl: what took about 100 lines I'm gonna do in about 10
14:46 hdl oh.
14:45 kados hdl: I'm re-writing the facets again :-)
14:45 kados hdl: yep
14:45 kados definitely not liquid
14:45 hdl oho : refine your serach loses your previous search.
14:45 kados yep
14:45 kados if anyone had the time to learn how to use it
14:45 owen ...but oriented towards fixed layouts, as I recall
14:45 kados some really nice stuff in there
14:45 kados which is pretty much airtight
14:45 kados there's also the yahoo stuff
14:44 kados yep
14:44 owen But if we want to tighten things up...
14:44 owen The original NPL OPAC template is pretty loose, in part because I avoided hacks in favor of letting things shift around a little bit in different browsers
14:43 kados yea, it's pretty nice
14:43 kados but I forgot
14:43 kados a few weeks back
14:43 owen It's a very flexible layout system, but it seems to use just about every hack imaginable.
14:43 kados I was actually gonna point you to it
14:43 kados yep
14:43 owen Have you seen this article? http://www.positioniseverything.net/articles/onetruelayout/
14:42 kados are we in quirks mode?
14:42 kados which ones?
14:42 kados hehe
14:42 owen Trying to decide how I feel about CSS hacks...
14:42 kados hdl: it's been shifting quite a bit today
14:42 owen Actually, right now I'm trying to evaluate some alternative CSS layouts for use in the OPAC
14:42 kados yep
14:41 hdl is it in zoompoac ?
14:41 kados owen: yea, they rock :-)
14:41 hdl can you show me some of your games ?
14:41 owen I'm all about the gradients, baby!
14:41 kados hdl: owen is :-)
14:41 hdl owen : are you playing web 2.0 ?
14:38 Burgwork too bad
14:37 kados nope
14:37 Burgwork kados, linuxworld san fran
14:35 kados Burgwork: what's that?
14:34 Burgwork kados, you headed to LWESF?
14:06 kados I can run them all within OSX and don't need to reboot to use them now
14:06 kados the parallels software runs so well ...
14:06 kados I reformatted my hd again, no more native windows or linux partitions
14:06 kados osx, windows, and linux
14:05 kados I'm tellin ya ... can't beat a macbook :-)
14:05 kados :-)
14:02 kados might as well use the new OPAC
14:02 owen right
14:02 kados dev_week OPAC I mean
14:02 kados I was figuring that probably the class would just be evaluating whatever dev_week ends up looking like when NPL goes live
14:01 kados definitely
14:01 owen If there's any way I can contribute to the process let me know
13:57 kados s/like to/plan to/
13:57 kados I'd like to take her recommendations from the study, and incorporate them into the next version
13:56 kados so your work will be under the microscope soon :-)
13:55 kados yea, it should be good
13:55 owen Very cool
13:55 kados which will also include some info on relavance ranking
13:55 kados we're planning to co-author an article on OPAC usability
13:54 kados and ...
13:54 kados so we'll get some pretty nice data from that
13:54 kados and she's gonna use the Koha OPAC as the classes project
13:54 kados the other class is on usability
13:54 kados ie, they have to set up a virtual library, etc.
13:54 kados and LibLime has set up a bunch of koha installs for her students to learn on :-)
13:53 kados one is on 'Integrated Library Systems'
13:53 kados she teaches a couple classes at UofT
13:53 owen Wow, that's cool
13:53 kados sometime in Sept
13:52 kados I'm going to be hiring a prof in texas to do a usability study on the new OPAC
13:52 kados I should tell you ...
13:51 kados yea, it really is surprising
13:51 kados heh
13:50 owen Then again, I still wonder how people can /not/ use the tab key to go from the username to the password form field!
13:49 kados but just thought you might be interested
13:49 kados as many opinions as people :-)
13:48 kados design is bullocks :-)
13:48 kados I _think_ at least that it's a focal point
13:48 kados amazon does a nice job of framing out the search bar within the header
13:47 kados all along :-)
13:47 owen Do you mean just in the new design, or all along?
13:47 kados or whether it's because it's not a focal point of the page
13:47 kados I don't know if that's just because they're librarians ....
13:47 owen :D
13:46 kados also ... talked to james and tina today ... and neither of them even noticed the search bar that stays resident on the top of the page
13:46 owen I think it was the opac stylesheet switch. I need to go back in and pick up the changes from yesterday
13:45 kados did you not like the underlined links for them?
13:45 kados seems like the facets have changed since yesterday
13:45 kados right
13:45 owen I haven't tested yet in anything other than Firefox
13:44 owen Just playing around.
13:44 kados owen: looking pretty web 2.0 :-)
13:44 kados owen: wow, you've been busy