Time Nick Message 09:09 paul (depuis pfw.ineoms.com) 09:09 paul une dernière petite visite ? 09:08 paul hello pierrick 09:03 btoumi bye for all good week end 04:54 btoumi nick btoumi_lunch 04:54 btoumi :nick btoumi_lunch 04:52 dewey btoumi: that doesn't look right 04:52 btoumi change be doen for updatedatabase 04:16 btoumi qui allez le faire 04:16 btoumi donc je sais pas si c toi :paul ou :chris 04:14 btoumi par contre va falloir modifier la base de donnees de la head 04:00 btoumi est ce comprehensible? 04:00 btoumi et pas les modidications que l'on doit faire sur la base actuelle de la 3.0 03:59 btoumi je suis entrain de modifier l'updatedatabase pour que l'on puisse modifier la base d'une version anterieur 03:59 paul ouaip 03:58 btoumi en fait dans la version actuelle de la base de donnee de koha3.0 la table deletedborrower contient les champs de la table actuelle borrowers plus les anciens champ 03:57 btoumi je vais la faire en francais parce que la c chaud en anglais 03:57 paul pas sûr de bien comprendre la question... 03:57 btoumi isn't it? 03:57 btoumi i must do like if i have a koha 2.2.5 database 03:55 btoumi actually deletedborrowertable is not correct we have badfield name and useless field but if i modify updatedatabase 03:53 btoumi lol 03:53 btoumi champion 03:53 paul campion is away I think :-D 03:52 btoumi another question for campion 03:37 btoumi :chris around? 03:02 paul hdl around ? 02:46 btoumi hi chris and ty 02:45 chris cool that would be good 02:45 btoumi and commit 02:45 btoumi i ask u because actually the deletedborrowers table not the same i do the change in updatabase 02:44 chris because people often go .. oh i didnt mean to delete that, can I get it back 02:44 btoumi i think they work too much 02:44 chris yes it should be the same bruno, and when you delete a borrower it should get stored there 02:43 osmoze no champion here :p 02:43 btoumi hi osmoze 02:41 osmoze hello #koha 02:39 btoumi the deletedborrowers table is a same that the borrowers table? 02:39 btoumi one qustion for all champion 02:10 btoumi hi all 18:49 thd exactly 18:48 dewey thd: what? 18:48 thd dewey: CMU should give you a better parser. 18:47 dewey thd: i'm not following you... 18:47 thd dewey: exactly, carry on. 18:47 dewey thd: i'm not following you... 18:47 thd dewey: you do not need to follow me as long as you take good care of the forest. 18:46 dewey thd: i'm not following you... 18:46 thd dewey: remember all infobots named dewey must take good care of the forest. 18:45 dewey an infobot is at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot 18:45 thd dewey: what is an infobot? 18:44 dewey I can't find alternate spellings for 'inforbot' 18:44 thd dewey spell inforbot 18:44 dewey OK, thd. 18:44 thd dewey: dewey, the infobot, is to take good care of the forest. 18:44 dewey I can't find alternate spellings for 'nessacery' 18:44 russ dewey: spell nessacery 18:43 dewey wish i knew, thd 18:43 thd dewey: do you fix spelling errors? 18:42 dewey OK, thd. 18:42 thd dewey: dewey the inforbot is to take good care of the forest. 18:41 dewey ...but dewey is an infobot... 18:41 thd dewey: dewey is to take good care of the forest. 18:40 dewey thd: what? 18:40 thd dewey: take good care of the forest. 18:27 dewey ...but it is <reply>... 18:27 thd dewey: it is up to you to take good care of the forest. 18:27 dewey OK, thd. 18:27 thd dewey: huey and louie are broken. 18:26 thd s/hewey/huey/ 18:25 dewey thd: i haven't a clue 18:25 thd dewey: what happened to hewey and louie? 16:30 thd hdl: I am ok. I will be better in a couple of days after a full system update will give me Firefox 1.5 along with other things to use the record editor with fewer bugs. 16:28 thd you are quite welcome hdl 16:28 hdl hope you are fine. 16:28 hdl thx anyway. 16:28 hdl :D 16:27 thd hdl: http://zoomopac.liblime.com 16:26 hdl yes. 16:26 thd hdl: you do not mean his zoomopac search forms? 16:25 hdl I mean I have a demo tomorrow and client would certainly be impressed to see what kados has already up :))) 16:25 hdl No. 16:24 thd hdl: you mean head is not working so you want a working checkout? 16:24 hdl do you know where I could get access to a working current dev on zebra ? 16:23 hdl thd : 16:23 thd hdl: above 16:22 thd kados: is somewhere, maybe working on the record editor bugs. 16:22 thd hdl: I am here 16:21 dewey thd: excuse me? 16:21 thd dewey: at least the rest of us can appreciate the humour 16:21 dewey thd: i don't know 16:21 thd dewey: what silly things you have collected together. 16:20 dewey thd is probably just dying to tell you but I fear that if I reveal all I will lose the ability to obtain funding for a business myself. or skeptical about that as I would have seen only changes in the DOM that provide enhanced methods of access to the document historically. 16:20 hdl thd ? 16:20 hdl kados around ? 15:03 thd goodbye kyle 15:03 kyle bye all 15:03 kyle thd: talk to you later. 15:01 thd kyle: furthermore my Z39.50 client identifies the most complete record with multiple matching records and will give you the record with the complete table of contents and most subject headings etc. 15:00 kyle thd: that's interesting. However, I've got to do. Talk to you later. 14:59 thd kyle: a collection of weighted key fields can yield very accurate matches for almost all records with a large enough set of targets. 14:57 thd kyle: and then even valid numbers will match records which are related but not identical material. 14:55 thd kyle: also ISBNs, LCCNs or other standard identifiers alone have a 15 to 20 percent error rate for having a valid match if they were entered manually. 14:52 thd kyle: yes lots of fun especially as bugs in the Koha MARC editor have delayed the manually making the resulting records perfect. 14:51 kyle thd: that makes alot of sense 14:50 thd kyle: the greatest difficulty with even real records is that no two cataloguers will catalogue perfect ideal matching records for the same material and so you have to match on multiple fields with varying weights and give the records a score to know that you have a good automated match. 14:50 kyle thd: wow, that must've been fun. 14:48 thd kyle: the LibLime customer did not even have MARC data so, obviously that made the matching more difficult when sometimes the only field was a title field with a couple of words. 14:46 thd kyle: Unfortunately, the LibLime customer was anxious to have records quickly so I did manual post processing of a few hundred records to give them results without correcting my script to do it right automatically. 14:45 thd kyle: I have tried this for one LibLime customer already so that I do have real experience with matching some very poor quality records and I know all the published research on MARC record matching techniques. 14:43 thd kyle: I am actually disparate for any kind of work so that I am having to do things which keep me from working on Koha. 14:42 thd kyle: I am actually desperate for work but I have spent months researching how to do this well so that I can do it well. 14:41 kyle thd: yeah, I can imagine so. 14:41 thd kyle: the basic problem is that being confident that you have the same record is much more tricky than you would imagine at first. 14:41 kyle thd: I'll ask him about it next time I see him. Can't hurt to ask. 14:40 thd kyle: It need not cost much because I am very cheap but have John talk to kados. I do want to share the code but it has no comments and I have changed the PHP/Yaz client just recently so that the Perl would need updating at least to communicate the correct variables. 14:38 kyle thd: that's sounds nifty. 14:37 thd kyle: It currently consists of an LWP Perl script that drives special hidden features in a PHP/Yaz client that I had started before Perl::Zoom was ready. 14:36 kyle thd: I wish I had the clout to do that, but John's still waiting for Zebra to be fully integrated into koha, I don't think I'll be talking him into funding another project anytime soon ; ) 14:34 thd kyle: I would be happy to share it but it needs a little more work to avoid false matches. Maybe you could hire LibLime to hire me to improve the code. 14:32 kyle thd: that's great, is it available somewhere? 14:32 thd kyle: I have some code to do just that. 14:31 kyle thd: what I would like to write is a marc "scrubbing" program that would look at a marc file's isbn or other identifier, download the corrosponding marc file from LOC, and fill in any missing fields. 14:31 thd s/MARC record/MARC::Record/ 14:30 thd kyle: you export it first and manipulate it in MARC record. 14:30 kyle thd: yes, I imagine so. The problem being that I have no idea how to manipulate data in Zebra. 14:27 thd kyle: your script may be tied to Koha 2.2 but if you would need to do something similar in future, a similar thing could be done more easily with Zebra and MARC::Record than doing it mostly in SQL as I imagine that you had done. 14:24 kyle thd: yeah. 14:24 thd kyle: and Koha 2.2 provided that. 14:23 thd kyle: well you have certainly solved it what would seem to be the difficult way to me but I guess every way requires creating a database of which records are which before merging holdings content. 14:21 kyle thd: yes, that is correct. 14:21 kyle thd: that's why I took the route I did. Processing a couple hundred thousand records only takes a few hours with my current program. 14:20 thd kyle: I assume that you can now export your records from Koha as individual MARC records with holdings attached? 14:19 thd kyle: yes, that would not be practical for CPU usage in real time 14:18 kyle thd: no, I was going to go that route but the processing time would have been astronomical, to the tune of factorial($numberOfMarcRecords) 14:18 thd kyle: no wonder that took an incredible amount of time :) 14:17 thd kyle: I was wondering if you had added some record deduplication function to Koha itself, about which I had no knowledge. 14:17 kyle thd: so it will only work on the 2.2 branch of koha. 14:17 kyle thd: actually, what we did was import them into koha as is, then I wrote a program to manipulate the koha database directly to remove the duplicates and readd them as additional items to a single biblio. 14:16 kyle thd: the latter 14:16 kyle thd: we could have used the records as they were, but koha would have showed five separate instances of said book, instead of one book with five items attached. 14:15 thd kyle: I mean did you change Koha to accommodate your records as they were or did you attach all your holdings to a single record before import into Koha? 14:14 thd ? 14:14 thd kyle: was your incredible amount of time spent to fix Koha so that it would use the records in the same manner or fixing your MARC records so that Koha could use them. 14:11 kyle thd: I spent an incredible amount of time writing a program to fix it so that koha sees one biblio with multiple items. 14:10 kyle thd: we can get MARC data out, but it stores a marc record for each item in the database, 5 copies of a book = 5 identical marc records. 14:09 thd kyle: actually, as I remember, your database does not export its own data like most similar databases without a fee being paid. 14:07 thd ? 14:07 thd kyle: Can it export MARC from its own format if the MARC records were gone or would it be just a small subset of MARC. 14:06 kyle thd: basically, yes, it only grabs data from the MARC record on import, then stores and ignores it. 14:05 kyle thd: it uses a database called Btrieve. 14:05 thd s/record creation/original record creation/ 14:05 thd kyle: Does your ILS stores record data in SQL or some other database model but only reads MARC at the time of record creation? 14:02 thd owen: especially as every plugin is a server side call. 14:01 thd owen: such a model could have the same resource consumption as the current JavaScript model. 14:00 thd owen: there is yet another model possible with small pages of one tab at a time being sent where most everything stays on the server. 13:57 thd owen: yes, I understand the reason and agreed reluctantly that it must be JavaScript 13:56 owen thd: true, but for an advanced editor to be efficient, it needs to be fast. addbiblio is too large a page to continually refresh as you're editing a record. 13:56 thd However, that would be server side. 13:56 kyle it has it's own scheme for ordering search results. 13:55 kyle our current ILS only stores marc data, but doesn't use it. 13:55 thd owen: Perl is much better scripting tool for managing complexity. 13:55 kyle many that should have an indicator > 0 don't, and some that *should* have 0 have some other number. 13:54 kyle extremely 13:54 thd kyle: are your 245 fields broken? 13:54 owen few pages should /require/ javascript, but addbiblio is the exception, because of the complexity it demands 13:53 thd all pages needing JavaScript should be in the intranet only. 13:53 thd owen: Very few pages should actually need JavaScript 13:52 kyle The perl module for user simulation, and a marc tool for fixing 245 fields. 13:52 thd owen: there should however, be a standard warning message that is visible if JavaScript is not turned on for pages that need JavaScript to function. 13:51 kyle It has my firefox extension, reports generators and other stuff in it. 13:51 kyle fyi, I created a project on sourceforge called koha-tools. 13:51 kyle hello thd : ) 13:51 thd hello kyle 13:50 owen Bummer, that would have been an easy fix ;) 13:50 kyle hey all 13:50 thd owen: yes now I am certain 13:48 thd owen: yes 13:48 thd owen: actually Linux versions are usually a little behind. 13:48 owen Are you sure javascript is turned on? 13:48 owen Again, it seems unlikely that it's a browser version issue 13:47 thd owen: maybe I need 8.54 instead of 8.52 (GNU/Linux) 13:46 owen thd: the clone tag function? It works fine for me in Opera 8.54 (Windows) 13:43 thd I have now tested with standards compliant Opera 8.52 and observed the same conditions as with Firefox 1.07 exactly. 13:43 kados I can only assume something he did is responsible ;-) 13:43 kados since all of this was working in rel_2_2 right before paul made his changes 13:42 kados that screen has a mangled record on it 13:42 kados (which it is of course) 13:42 kados of the original record 13:42 kados and it asks me if it's a duplicate 13:42 kados it's when I go to save it 13:42 kados no ... 13:42 owen kados: Did you mean that when you clicked the 'duplicate record' button the record that opened was incomplete and/or empty? 13:39 kados I'm planning to spend a few hours on this later today 13:39 kados it's possible paul changed something in the scripts that broke MARC21 13:37 owen kados also saw a problem with the "duplicate record" function from the catalog 13:36 owen kados noticed and I confirmed that information was getting lost when saving records after editing. 13:34 thd owen: what sort of problems is kados seeing, which are unrelated to JavaScript? 13:33 dewey okay, thd. 13:33 thd owen: yes, I am also skeptical about that as I would have seen only changes in the DOM that provide enhanced methods of access to the document historically. 13:32 owen Anyway, the problems kados is seeing are much more than just a javascript issue 13:31 thd kados: I suppose that could be possible but that did not seem to be a reasonably likely account of the difference without actually knowing how the code changed and how it worked. 13:29 thd kados: This morning paul suggested to me that he was supposing the DOM had changed in some significant way between Firefox 1.0X and 1.5 so that the means for accessing the same part of the document in one version would not work in the other version. 13:27 thd kados: in another three or four days or so I will have updated Firefox to version 1.5 along with just about everything else on my system 13:25 kados thd: i also discovered some major bugs in the new editor 13:25 kados thd: i will have a couple hours later today to troubleshoot these issues 13:25 thd s/no/know/ 13:25 thd owen: I do no where it always had been actuated previously :) but that is good to check 13:24 owen The link is just a dummy--it's a trigger for a javascript function. So the link itself doesn't matter. 13:24 thd owen: I have this as an example for the link intended to create another ISBN, field 020: http://localhost:8082/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl?oldbiblionumber=30# . 13:23 owen You're talking about the little plus sign link after the tag description, right? e.g. 'INTERNATIONAL STANDARD SERIAL NUMBER' 13:22 thd owen: no error messages and the add field has only a link to the same addbiblio.pl page for the record with a blank page anchor. 13:16 owen No problem. 13:15 thd owen: This may take a few minutes because most resources are being consumed by a giant system update on my low bandwidth. 13:14 owen It would be very helpful to know any relevant Javascript errors. 13:14 thd owen: I did not check very extensively. Let me look now. 13:13 owen Are there any errors in the Javascript Console? 13:12 thd owen: I have only a non-JavaScript link to the same page itself with a blank anchor at the end. 13:11 owen Wow...so it just fails silently? 13:10 thd owen: My test showed that there is no JavaScript functionality in the add repeatable field link for Firefox 1.07