Time Nick Message 10:03 kyle bon appetit ; ) 10:03 kados bbiab 10:03 kados phone's been ringing off the hook this morning :) 10:03 kados right now I've got to get some breakfast 10:03 kados kyle: cool ... I'll take a look asap 10:02 johnb yep 10:02 kados johnb: that site is useful because it actually has MARC tags and subfields that identify the FRBR hierarchy mappings 10:01 kados chris an I had a long chat yesterday about Koha 3.0's handling of bibliograpic levels 10:00 kados johnb: that _is_ interesting 09:53 kyle you can check it out at http://ccfls.org/koha/ 09:53 kyle *very*, that is. 09:52 kyle I finished a *ver* basic patron activity simulator. 09:52 johnb Kados: Found this site concerning multiple manifestations of the same work using MARC http://www.loc.gov/marc/marc-functional-analysis/multiple-versions.html 09:52 kyle hey all 09:45 kados or else we could dig in the code 09:45 kados that's a question for paul 09:45 kados well ... I'm not sure then 09:44 kados ahh .. 09:43 kados really? 09:43 owen It doesn't seem to be linked to anything 09:41 kados then check the biblio framework and see if that subfield is set to use an authorized value 09:41 kados s/linked/mapped 09:41 kados check the koha mappings for the itemlost column to find out where it's linked 09:40 owen Yes 09:40 kados which machine are you on, 101? 09:40 kados I think I can help 09:39 kados :-) 09:39 owen If you know the answer :) 09:39 kados is that the question you had for me? 09:39 kados hey owen 09:14 owen This one goes out to anyone listening: Why does my itemlost column contain three possible values? 0,1, and 2? 08:50 owen kados: you around? 06:40 kados paul_away: you around? 06:40 kados morning all 21:01 kados at least for the fields with character data 21:00 kados if the dtd is going to be used as a framework we might need plugin too 20:55 kados anything else? 20:55 kados so what attributes do these need ... I thought maybe type and length 20:50 kados I think each one just has it's own 20:50 kados not sure that elements biblioitem and item need biblionumber or biblioitemnumber 20:49 kados chris: hacked together the start of a dtd for koha tables 20:49 kados chris: http://library.afognak.org/koha.dtd 19:46 kados k :-) 19:46 chris ok i gotta go eat, bbiab 19:46 kados hmmm ... 19:46 chris yep 19:46 kados then, to implement a new record format all you'd need to do is write a dtd for it 19:45 kados if it was implemented as a framework, we could hypothetically use all the same code to manage the marc and koha editor 19:45 kados yea 19:45 chris that something could be any kinda cataloguing tool you liked 19:45 chris ie you give something xml and a dtd, and it gives you back xml 19:45 kados and this should just be a framework 19:44 kados maybe the frameworks should be dtds 19:44 chris you could build a myriad of ways to edit it 19:44 chris if you had xml and a dtd 19:44 kados what would be neat 19:44 kados if it was well implemented 19:44 chris yep 19:44 kados that could really rock 19:44 kados yea 19:44 chris somethign like that anyway 19:43 chris which lets us know how to build a form to edit it 19:43 chris title 125 varchar 19:43 chris eg 19:43 kados yea, dtd sounds good 19:43 chris that shouldnt be too bad either 19:42 kados to determine how to handle search requests, etc. 19:42 chris but if we make a dtd 19:42 chris the hardest thing is gonna be editing it 19:42 kados we'll need a driver layer 19:42 kados so behind the scenes 19:42 kados I think so too 19:42 chris reckon so 19:42 kados so the question is can zebra search that three-tier hierarchy the way we want? 19:41 chris to a public library, or some small special 19:41 kados yup 19:41 chris has quite different cataloguing needs 19:41 chris since a corporate library 19:41 chris i like it 19:41 kados and of moving completely away from MARC in completely new directions 19:41 chris exactly 19:41 kados is it opens up the possibility of libraries defining their own fields 19:40 chris its fully extensible 19:40 kados the cool thing about that approach 19:40 kados then we build some zebra config files to know how to search it 19:40 chris yep 19:40 kados easy as pie to export like that 19:39 chris yeah 19:39 kados <biblio> 19:39 kados </biblioitem> 19:39 kados <item> 19:39 kados <item> 19:39 chris thats where i was heading as well i think 19:39 kados <biblioitem> 19:39 chris nope thats fine 19:39 kados <biblio> 19:39 kados so you have: 19:39 kados store it as xml 19:39 kados instead of storing the koha tables stuff in the koha tables 19:39 kados this may be silly 19:39 kados for Koha 3.0 19:38 kados what I was thinking 19:38 chris searching using the old tables is slower 19:38 kados hmmm 19:38 chris yep 19:38 kados actually, he goes a step farther and searches using the old tables 19:38 chris its its nice and fast to fetch from biblio etc when you are fetching by their primary key 19:37 kados if zebra crashes 19:37 kados and tumer already does that to some extent 19:37 chris we can do the same thing 19:37 chris exactly 19:37 chris so with a zebra plugin for 2.4 19:37 kados so you could do the same thing with zebra 19:36 kados yea 19:36 chris thats all its doing really 19:36 chris search on one, display the other 19:36 kados I think I get it though 19:36 chris nope not in 2.2 19:36 kados well we're not fully marc compliant with marc=on either :( 19:36 kados yea 19:35 chris so its not fully marc compliant in the background .. but it has enough to allow it to work they way they want 19:35 kados the problem is, there are concessions on both sides to make this work 19:35 chris it shows me the marc stuff 19:35 chris if i have marc=on 19:35 kados I see 19:35 chris and uses that to fetch the biblio,biblioitems and items 19:34 chris it gets the biblionumber from that search 19:34 chris if i have marc=off 19:34 kados right 19:34 chris the only difference is 19:34 chris whether i have marc on or off 19:34 kados right 19:34 chris hence when i search on biblio.title, it actually searches marc_word for 245a 19:34 kados right 19:33 chris that mapping is there whether its on or off 19:33 kados to specific marc subfields 19:33 kados there's a mapping in place between fields in biblio, biblioitems and items 19:33 chris it searches the marc and displays the marc 19:33 kados because when marc is on 19:33 kados not entirely 19:33 chris that make sense? 19:32 chris then you just return the results from the biblio,biblioitems and items tables 19:32 chris it gets some biblionumbers from that 19:31 chris it searches on the marc_word 19:31 kados so but what I'm not clear on is how you implemented the marc record at the biblio level but still managed to maintain itemtype at the biblioitem level 19:30 chris and include the bibliogroup number 19:30 chris with a bit of work i could export all the records as marc records 19:29 kados hmmm 19:29 kados right 19:29 chris cos the 2.2 marc set up assumes a marc record will only have 1 itemtype in it 19:28 chris for searching by itemtype we have to drop back to looking at the biblioitem table 19:28 chris pretty much everything barring searching by itemtype works pretty well 19:27 chris koha2marc.pl does most of it 19:27 chris so it wasnt that hard 19:27 chris for eg 19:26 chris http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&type=opac&marclist=&and_or=and&excluding=&operator=contains&value=harry+potter&Go.x=0&Go.y=0 19:26 chris they already had the structure 19:26 kados how the heck did you do that? :-) 19:26 kados !! 19:26 chris no i fixed that 19:25 kados so if I'm understanding correctly HLT doesn't like the way that Koha 2.2 searches because it probably brings up 7 records instead of 1, right? 19:25 chris yep 19:25 chris koha 2.2 searches the marc tables 19:25 chris koha 1.0 searched biblio and biblioitems and items 19:25 kados so in fact, they would get the benefit of zebra 19:24 kados ahh ... 19:24 kados hmmm 19:24 chris it still searches the marc tables 19:24 chris with marc=off 19:24 chris so does koha 2.2 19:24 chris yes it does 19:24 kados does Koha 1.x search on anything but biblio table? 19:23 kados here's a question 19:23 kados well ... 19:23 chris so itd be nice to get it right(ish) 19:23 chris that will affect the project for years to come 19:23 chris its a fairly crucial decision 19:23 kados yea, suppose so 19:23 chris yeah but pretty far down the wrong road potentially 19:23 kados but it's making the plan that's tough 19:22 kados and if we had a plan I think I could get pretty far ... 19:22 chris i think that there must be a way to do it 19:22 kados so i was hoping to get a whole week of coding in 19:22 kados and I happen to have some time because all our big projects are done for a bit 19:22 kados i guess I'm in a coding mood 19:21 kados yea, that part is early 19:21 kados hehe 19:21 chris no its early .. this discussion started what last night? 19:21 kados I've got to roll this out asap :-) 19:21 chris we have only just started to think about how to do it 19:21 kados maybe it's early for you :-) 19:21 chris i wouldnt commit to any decision 19:21 kados ?? :-) 19:21 chris well its early days yet 19:20 kados I can't think of a way to implement this hierarchy with zebra without really losing the benefits of zebra 19:20 chris im not sure im mad keen about that idea 19:20 kados yea ... 19:20 chris so they dont get any of th benefits of zebra? 19:20 chris thatd be a shame 19:20 chris hmm 19:19 kados and just build the zebra stuff next to that 19:19 kados and update all the scripts 19:19 kados kohaXXX 19:19 kados rename all the routines 19:19 kados now I'm thinking we leave the old koha 1.x stuff alone 18:45 kados they won't get the new search features ... and that kinda sucks ... 18:45 kados exactly the way it is 18:45 kados maybe we should just keep that up and running 18:45 kados but in reality, it's still running Koha 1.x back there 18:44 kados I thought it was just a way to hind MARC 18:44 kados I didn't realize that MARC=OFF actually did something to the back end 18:15 chris k 18:14 kados I'm gonna run that by paul tomorrow 18:14 kados and play with zebra 18:14 chris ziggactly 18:14 chris yep 18:14 kados that would let us play some more with head 18:14 chris i think thats a great step 18:14 kados and folks could get started using zebra 18:14 chris yeah 18:14 kados and revise the zebra plugin documentation 18:14 kados all we'd need to do is wrap tumer's stuff in a systempref 18:13 kados the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of releasing 2.4 with a Zebra plugin option 17:26 kados bbiab 17:26 kados right ... I'm gonna grab some dinner 17:25 chris yeah something like that 17:24 kados </bibliogroup> 17:24 kados <itemnumber>1</itemnumber> 17:24 kados <itemgroupnumber>1</itemgroupnumber> 17:24 kados <biblionumber>1</biblionumber> 17:24 kados <bibliogroupnumber>1</bibliogroupnumber> 17:24 kados <bibliogroup> 17:24 kados something like: 17:23 kados k 17:23 chris anyway ill have a think about it 17:23 chris or that might just make it more complicated 17:22 chris we could use zebra to interface with it 17:22 kados hmmm ... 17:21 chris that has the bibliogroups etc in it 17:21 chris why dont we store some xml 17:21 kados got it? :-) 17:21 chris oh oh oh 17:20 kados thanks for brainstorming with me 17:20 chris no worries its interesting 17:20 kados yep, sorry for taking up so much time 17:20 chris ill have to think about it more, but now i better actually do some work :) 17:19 kados especially with an external cataloging client 17:19 chris so we dont have to scan zebra 17:19 kados yea, that's what I'm thinking 17:18 chris we may want to store the highest value somewhere 17:18 chris yep 17:18 kados and it generates a new id ...? 17:18 chris that you need to break into 2 1 to many relationships 17:18 kados or item 17:18 kados so to create a new bibliogroup or itemgroup you basically just use an existing biblio to do it 17:17 chris when you have a many to many relationship 17:17 chris you only need a joining type table 17:17 chris its 1->many 1->many 17:17 chris nope 17:16 kados I guess we don't have that now 17:16 kados I'm confused about that point 17:16 kados you don't need two tables to keep the ids and membership outside of the records? 17:15 kados hmmm 17:15 kados and 090 for the bibliogroupnumber 17:15 kados so I say we use 001 for the biblionumber 17:14 chris right 17:14 kados you return one bibliogroup ... with the biblios , itemgroups and items attached 17:13 kados not quite I think ... because you want to show the items too I think 17:13 chris you only need to return one 17:13 chris ie, if you have 2 with the same bibliogroup 17:13 chris basically u want to drop duplicates from ur results 17:13 kados we're getting there :-) 17:13 chris i think its soluble tho 17:13 kados this is a very challanging problem :-) 17:12 kados rather than by title author etc. 17:12 kados because you're stuck with a sort based on group only 17:12 chris will allow clumping together easily too 17:12 kados well ... but you end up with a problem then 17:12 chris or sort by it 17:12 kados hmmm, interesting 17:11 chris u could rank on it 17:11 kados I'm not sure how to do it in xpath (or if it's even possible) 17:11 chris if it was in the record 17:11 chris yeah 17:11 kados constructing that query in sql would be tough ... 17:11 chris yeah 17:11 kados maybe with xpath? 17:11 kados and if it's in the record, can we use Zebra to find it? :-) 17:10 kados maybe not 17:10 chris if we stored it in the record, do we need it in the db? 17:10 kados hmmmm ... maybe not with Z3950 17:10 kados though it would be tough to tie it into the db 17:10 chris yep 17:09 kados that way we could still use an external cataloger 17:09 chris yep 17:09 kados they're record-level and item-level 17:09 chris cant see why not 17:09 chris yeah 17:09 kados seems like we shouhld be able to 17:09 chris reckon so 17:09 kados I wonder if we could store the bibliogroupid and itemgroupid in the record 17:08 chris like most nz public libraries 17:08 kados right 17:08 chris and libraries that get no value from marc 17:08 chris yep 17:08 kados corporate and tiny libraries 17:08 kados yea 17:08 chris nope all the corporate libraries 17:08 kados so I'm invested in making this work well 17:08 kados I've got clients who don't want to use MARC 17:08 kados and HLT isn't the only one 17:07 kados right ... 17:07 chris this is for people who want to catalog in the biblio,group,item style of koha 1 17:07 kados hmmm 17:07 chris right i think ppl using an external cataloger wont have this switched on 17:06 kados well I'm just thinking of how to add new records with an external cataloger like we do now 17:06 chris for the user side, it simplifies both 17:06 chris from the programming side yes 17:05 kados and searching :-) 17:05 kados this complicates cataloging :-) 17:05 chris etc 17:05 chris 1,3,2,3 17:05 kados right, 17:05 chris 1,2,1,2 17:05 kados hmmm 17:05 chris 1,1,1,1 17:04 chris bibliogroupid,biblioid,itemgroupid,itemid 17:04 chris one table 17:04 chris couldnt we just have 17:04 chris we do? 17:04 kados hehe 17:04 dewey itemgroup is for issuing/reserves 17:04 kados itemgroup 17:03 dewey it has been said that bibliogroup is for searching only 17:03 kados bibliogroup 17:03 kados also, we need two tables 17:03 chris should be doable, just will need some thought 17:02 kados how about sorting? 17:02 kados yea 17:02 chris its just for displaying the results 17:02 chris its not really even for the searching, we still just search the same way 17:01 chris so we need to abstract over that, to make it look like it doesnt :) 17:01 kados yea 17:00 chris ie it contains bunches of redundant (replicated) data 17:00 kados :-) 17:00 kados sheesh 17:00 kados ok, I think I get it 17:00 chris but we have to becuase marc is not normalised 17:00 kados so we need 4 because of the searching thing 17:00 kados hehe 17:00 kados hmmm 17:00 chris to recreate the 3 that we had 17:00 chris we are using 4 levels 16:59 kados yea ... 16:59 chris really 16:59 chris but bibliogroup is what biblio was in koha 1 16:59 kados we need to be able to define circulation rules on all three of the bottom levels I think 16:59 chris yeah 16:58 kados cause in 1.0 we only had three levels right? 16:58 kados so this is a bit different than 1.0 16:58 chris itemgroup is for issuing/reserves 16:58 chris yes 16:58 kados and bibliogroup is for searching only 16:57 kados right 16:57 chris in koha 1 16:57 chris a biblio has groups, groups have items 16:57 kados and so a biblio is just the MARC record 16:57 chris im using groups because thats how hlt think of them 16:57 chris that;ll work 16:57 kados make sense? 16:57 kados items 16:57 kados itemgroup 16:57 kados biblios 16:56 kados bibliogroup 16:56 kados lets call them 16:56 kados ok 16:56 chris works own biblios, biblios own groups, groups on items 16:56 chris here we go 16:55 chris workid is much higher 16:55 chris no no no 16:55 kados isn't that the same as workid? 16:55 kados hehe 16:55 kados what the heck is groupid? 16:55 kados ahh! 16:55 chris and groupid 16:55 kados where does the fourth id come in? 16:55 chris yes 16:55 kados itemid 16:55 kados biblioid 16:55 kados workid 16:55 kados so now we need three ids 16:55 kados the biblio belongs to a work 16:54 chris and that belongs to a work 16:54 kados then we've got an item ... called item 16:54 chris yep 16:54 kados lets call that biblio 16:54 chris yep 16:54 kados we've got a MARC record 16:54 kados ok ... 16:54 chris sorry? 16:54 chris biblio->biblioitems->items in koha 1.0 16:54 kados where does the record fit in? 16:53 chris which is 16:53 chris that gives us works->groups->items 16:53 chris yep 16:53 chris yep 16:53 kados and items into groups? 16:53 kados so we're grouping MARC records into works 16:53 chris but im fine with id too 16:53 kados sure 16:53 chris just a naming convention i have 16:53 kados so we have: 16:52 kados right, that's fine ... 16:52 chris thats the reason i use itemnumber, biblionumber etc 16:52 kados :-) 16:52 chris cos its a number 16:52 chris i like number 16:52 kados (and why XXXnumber instead of XXXid?) 16:52 kados right 16:51 chris think of biblionumber as marcrecord id 16:51 chris not really 16:51 kados I thought biblio was a group of items 16:50 chris work is a group of biblios 16:50 chris group is a group of items 16:50 chris group is a lower level 16:50 kados what's the diff between worknumber and groupnumber? 16:50 kados worknumber,groupnumber,biblionumber,itemnumber,itemtype 16:50 kados woops 16:49 kados chris: could you explain the groupnumber,biblionumber,itemnumber,itemtype a bit more in our new bibliogroup table? 16:22 kados thanks 16:21 chris eg, take a look at C4/Date.pm 16:21 kados ahh, cool 16:21 chris so when u open the module you can see the version and who last committed easy 16:21 chris # $Id: $ 16:20 chris just below the copyright 16:20 kados thanks 16:20 chris also i like to put this 16:20 kados heh, yea :-) 16:20 chris easy eh 16:20 chris # $Log: $ 16:20 kados and the log bit? 16:20 chris its cool like that 16:20 kados nice 16:20 chris cvs will fix it to the right value 16:19 chris when u cvs commit 16:19 chris just leave it as that 16:19 kados what do I set 1.71 to? 16:19 chris shift(@v) . "." . join("_", map {sprintf "%03d", $_ } @v); }; 16:19 chris $VERSION = do { my @v = '$Revision: 1.171 $' =~ /\d+/g; 16:19 chris just put this line in 16:19 chris righto 16:18 kados i'd like to have a log on this just like for Biblio.pm 16:18 kados chris: before I commit Record.pm ... could you explain how to add the VERSION stuff? 16:14 chris yep 16:14 kados morning russ 16:14 russ morning kados 16:14 kados it's just a matter of putting it in the right places 16:13 kados we've got most of the code written already 16:13 kados it's not too bad actually ... 16:13 kados and now I'm thiking Bibliogroup.pm 16:13 chris right 16:13 kados Holdings.pm 16:12 kados Biblios.pm 16:12 kados and I've begun working on: 16:12 chris sweet 16:12 kados * changeEncoding - the mother of all encoding routines, convert from and to any encoding (MARC-8, UTF-8, etc.) in any record format (MARC, MARCXML, XML, etc.) for any flavour of MARC (MARC21, UNIMARC, etc.) 16:11 kados * html2marc - old routine to take HTML and convert directly to MARC (broken now, but might be useful someday) 16:11 kados * html2marcxml convert from HTML to MARCXML (used in addbiblio and additem) 16:11 kados * marcxml2marc - convert from MARCXML to MARC 16:11 kados * marc2marcxml - convert from MARC to MARCXML 16:11 kados it does this: 16:11 chris sweet 16:11 kados it's for managing records of all types 16:11 chris whats it do? 16:11 chris cool 16:11 kados called Record.pm 16:11 kados I spent about 4 hours today working on a new module 16:11 kados chris: so ... 15:52 kados bbiab 15:52 kados ok, I'm gonna summarize this stuff on the wiki 15:52 chris yeah 15:52 kados yep, when we trust it 15:52 kados yea 15:52 chris when zebra/zoom is mature-er 15:52 chris maybe we should leave gutting the db for 3.2? 15:51 kados this is starting to come together 15:51 kados right 15:51 chris plus we lose the failover stuff tumer has done if we gut the db 15:51 chris i quite like the fact the raw marc is being stored 15:51 chris yes 15:49 kados and we need a way to rebuild it if it dies 15:49 kados I guess our problem is that we don't trust Zebra 100% yet 15:49 kados ? 15:49 kados items 15:49 kados biblio 15:48 kados we have bibliogroup 15:48 chris right 15:48 kados then in SQL 15:48 kados reservoir is identical to biblios but not the actual catalog 15:48 kados authorities is authority records 15:48 kados holdings is the items data 15:48 kados biblios is the bibliographic data 15:47 kados reservoir 15:47 kados authorities 15:47 kados holdings 15:47 kados biblios 15:47 kados so we have the following Zebra databases: 15:47 kados erp 15:47 kados so in Zebra we store: 15:45 chris yeah i think so too 15:44 kados but I think grouping MARC records will do it 15:44 kados unless we want to do both for some reason :-) 15:44 kados it looks like MARC items 15:44 kados I gues s my question was were to do the grouping, do we group MARC records or items 15:43 chris right thats essentially all we want to do too 15:43 kados yea 15:43 kados they create a metarecord that basically just groups marc records 15:43 chris as that is in fact the entire point of being a library ;) 15:43 kados in fact, it's how evergreen works 15:43 chris they want a search that allows their patrons to find books easy 15:43 kados it makes perfect sense 15:43 kados yep :-) 15:43 chris our clients are more pragmatic than dogmatic :) 15:42 kados yea, that part seems easy 15:42 kados because FRBR actually doesn't map a 1-1 between MARC and any of the levels they define 15:42 chris they just dont want 5 lines of the same title showing 15:42 chris they dont want frbr 15:42 kados it's still not gonnabe FRBR 15:42 kados it 15:41 chris could be 15:41 kados the same way we do when searching with bib1 15:41 kados maybe rather than map those fields to a single MARC field, they should be mapped to multiple fields 15:40 chris yep 15:40 kados hmmm 15:40 kados its' messy 15:40 kados and there are multiple authors and multiple subjects and stuff 15:40 chris right 15:40 kados because of course, in MARC that stuff is all over the place 15:40 kados which makes it problematic 15:40 kados it'd have to store some of that stuff too I suppose 15:40 kados yea ... and gives the user just title and author 15:40 chris yep 15:40 kados it groups all the records 15:40 chris it groups biblios together as works 15:39 kados and if it's turned on 15:39 kados so you do a search 15:39 kados ahh 15:39 chris its a number unique within a worknumber 15:39 kados now we have 4 levels? 15:38 kados what's the groupnumber? 15:38 chris etc 15:38 chris i think 5 different groupnumbers 15:38 kados that makes sense 15:38 kados right 15:38 chris all with worknumber the same 15:37 chris there would be 9 rows 15:37 chris http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=35551 15:37 chris for eg 15:37 chris worknumber,groupnumber,biblionumber,itemnumber,itemtype 15:36 chris ud want 15:36 chris hmm no ignore that 15:36 chris groupnumber,biblionumber,itemnumber,itemtype 15:35 chris you could have 15:35 kados hmmm 15:35 chris yep 15:35 kados otherwise searching'll be mad slow 15:35 kados I think we'd need to store the group information beforehand 15:34 kados maybe my original idea ... 15:34 kados well ... 15:34 chris title + author 15:33 kados how would you group them? 15:33 chris so only libraries that want it have it 15:33 chris it could be a system preference 15:33 chris just a grouping of results when u get them back from zebra 15:32 chris u know what would probably work just fine 15:32 chris k 15:32 kados i think 15:31 kados we'd basically have to reinvent the wheel 15:31 kados is that we lose all of the search options that Zebra gives us for working with MARC records 15:31 kados the problem with that approach 15:31 chris yeah 15:31 kados those become the biblios 15:31 kados derive a set of 'works' 15:31 chris yep that might work 15:31 chris hmm 15:30 kados is to apply the FRBR working set to the set of MARC records 15:30 kados one way we could acomplish this 15:30 kados so that actually complicates things quite a bit 15:30 chris yep 15:29 kados yea ... 9 lines with the same title 15:29 chris instead of 1 line, with nine items 15:29 chris you get 9 lines in your search results 15:29 chris is when you search on return of the king 15:29 chris the main thing they dont want 15:28 kados and the group stuff is biblio level 15:28 kados so maybe we keep the MARC at the biblioitem level 15:28 kados yea 15:27 chris id expect this one be more than one marc record 15:27 kados and have written several hundred lines of code so far working on it 15:27 chris http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=12180 15:27 kados I've been working on a new API for Koha 3.0 15:27 kados with this idea 15:26 kados so before we do anything, we need to understand when they'd want that and whether we could acomodate it 15:26 chris perhaps 15:26 chris so that they know to use that table 15:26 kados so the question is, are there times when they'd want more than one MARC record to be grouped in a single biblio? 15:26 chris then a chunk of work on acquisitions, reserves, and the detail.pl and more-detail.pl scripts 15:25 kados it would be pretty simple to build that table too 15:25 chris should do 15:25 kados that might do it 15:25 kados so if we had biblionumber,itemnumber,itemtype in biblioitems 15:24 chris yep 15:24 kados because that's how you do circ rules and reserves 15:24 chris yep 15:24 kados the one thing that needs to be there is the itemtype 15:23 chris its all interface really 15:22 chris could 15:21 chris right, yep we probably cooul 15:21 kados just maintain it as a separate table 15:21 kados ie, not map it to the MARC fields 15:21 kados so the question is, can we emulate the concept of a group with a biblioitem table that had biblionumber,itemnumber columns 15:21 chris you can of course shift items between groups too 15:20 kados of course 15:20 chris take that away, and all our users will go mental 15:20 chris when adding a new item you can choose which group to add it to, or make a new group, or if needs be make a new biblio and group 15:19 chris it also gives you a three tiered approach to cataloguing 15:19 chris yes it does 15:17 owen I'd love to be able to link directly to other formats from the details screen. "This title also available as..." 15:16 kados well from what I can tell, the only thing that biblioitems gives them is the ability to group items together and manage circulation rules and reserves and acquisitions based on those groups rather than just the Biblio or item 15:15 kados right 15:15 chris only if it appeared to them if nothing had changed 15:15 chris maybe 15:15 kados would that work for HLT? 15:15 kados to group holdings data (items) 15:14 kados and to have a grouping table 15:14 kados my latest idea is to store bibliographic and holdings data separately ... 15:14 kados yea, that's what I was thinking 15:14 chris but you can abstract over that to make it appear like you are 15:14 chris you cant 15:13 chris no 15:13 kados I'm trying to figure out whether we could represent the three-tier model in MARC21 and UNIMARC 15:08 chris there were technical reasons, and functionality reasons 15:08 chris and database normalisation 15:08 chris acquisitions too 15:08 chris no 14:50 kados chris: was it for circulation rules and for reserves ... and just that? 14:50 kados hey owen 14:50 kados chris: I need to ask you about the 1.x Koha design, specifically about grouping biblioitems into a single biblio 14:50 kados chris: you around? 12:32 veki bbl 12:25 veki there is tool Hera that you can find on www.sidar.org/hera which may help in increasing level of accessibility 12:20 veki when I say accessiility I think on W3C recommendations 12:20 veki it may be good to work on increase of accessibility of library sites 12:19 veki ok, great, no problem. It is my pleasure to do so 12:19 kados veki: thanks! 12:03 veki I have put link to your site on our site http://www.gnucentar.org.yu in Links/access to knwoledge and information category. I hope tha this will increase number of users of KOHA.