Time Nick Message 12:00 kados so something must be different about additem on 101 12:00 kados and in rel_2_2 12:01 kados very strange 12:01 kados owen: I bet that's because for NPL biblionumber and bibid are identical in most cases 12:02 kados owen: the template should be changed to bibid I think 12:02 kados owen: as that's what additem.pl is looking for 12:02 owen ? You mean <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='bibid' --> ? 12:02 kados yep 12:03 kados owen: see if you get the same results with that on 101 12:03 kados I'm guessing you'll find cases where you're not pulling up the correct items for a record 12:03 kados when you use biblionumber 12:04 kados maybe even cases like tim's where the items aren't showing up at all because there's a biblionumber that doesn't have a corresponding bibid 12:04 owen yes, I get the same results when I change it to bibid 12:04 kados and what do you get when you go 12:04 kados select * from marc_biblio where bibid='the id'; 12:04 kados well ... 12:04 kados select biblionumber from marc_biblio where bibid='the id'; 12:05 kados are they identical? 12:06 owen Yes 12:06 tim I just tried select * from marc_biblio where bibid=biblionumber and came up with nothing. 12:07 kados right 12:07 kados so that explains it 12:08 kados owen: try this: 12:08 tim So I shold change that on ours or did you already do that? 12:08 kados select bibid from marc_biblio where bibid!=biblionumber limit 10; 12:08 owen Just did :) 12:08 tim Thanks :) 12:08 owen And I confirm your conclusions 12:08 kados owen: and see if those ids come up funny when you try to edit 12:08 kados tim: yea, it's fixed on your box 12:09 kados tim: and we'll update cvs 12:09 kados tim: thanks for the bug report! 12:09 kados tim: and the solution ! (even better :-)) 12:11 kados thx 12:15 owen We really haven't been using bugzilla lately have we? 12:22 kados hehe 12:25 owen Hmmm... bugs from version 1.2.2? 12:25 kados hehe 12:52 thd kados: record number 10 from Columbia Univ. has the following problem when using bulkmarcimport.pl: not well-formed (invalid token) at line 40, column 60, byte 1678 at /usr/lib/perl5/XML/Parser.pm line 187 12:54 thd kados: as you would know bulkmarcimport.pl stops importing at that point 13:36 kyle hey all. 13:36 kyle I just added my templates to cvs 13:36 kyle under the title ccfls 13:36 kados excellent kyle 13:36 kyle could someone check to see if it worked? 13:36 kyle thanks. 13:36 kados I"ll look now 13:36 kados hmm, don't see anything coming through on koha-cvs 13:37 kyle hmmmm. 13:38 kados kyle: did you attempt a commit to rel_2_2? 13:38 kyle yes 13:38 kados kyle: better pass it by paul first if so 13:38 kados kyle: he's getting pretty close to a release of 2.4 13:38 kyle ok, any idea where I should put them? 13:38 kados hang on just a sec 13:38 kados phone call 13:39 kyle I wouldn't say there are completely done, but I would put them at %98-99 13:40 kyle plus I need to clean out some old, unused files. 13:42 kados back 13:42 kados no koha-cvs yet 13:42 kados kyle: where'd you put them? 13:42 kados kyle: koha/koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/ccfls ? 13:48 kyle yes 13:49 kados doesn't look like they came through 13:49 kyle i guess that's not a problem if that's not where I should be putting them anyway. 13:50 kados well, if it was up to me I'd put them there 13:51 kados but paul's the boss of rel_2_2 13:51 kyle do you want to ask him, or should I? 13:51 kados kyle: do you have a demo somewhere? 13:51 kados kyle: he'll be on tomorrow morning (our time) 13:51 kados kyle: if you want to talk to him 13:52 kados kyle: excited about France? 13:52 kyle we do have a test server, i'll ask cindy about it. 13:52 kados kyle: how's the data work going? 13:52 kyle I've never been out of North America, and I'm a bit anxious ; ) 13:52 kyle you mean all our marc problems? 13:52 kados is there some way to rush your passport? 13:52 kados yea :-) 13:53 kyle yeah, I did all that this morning, I should have it in 10 days or less. 13:53 kados sweet 13:53 kados well that's gonna be fantastic 13:53 kados it'll be great to have you all there 13:53 kyle I think I'm going to try your idea using the perl marc libraries and just combine each libraries records for now. 13:53 kados yea, that'd be what I'd do 13:53 kyle I'm looking forward to meeting everybody. 13:54 kados there are some routines that may help you with identifying duplicates 13:54 kyle I figure later I can learn more about zebra and do some cleanup then. 13:54 kados snoop around in addbiblio.pl 13:54 kyle will do. thanks for the tip. 13:55 kados kyle: line 452 13:55 kados kyle: FindDuplicate 13:55 kados you can probably use some ideas from that sub to build your own 13:56 kados and you'll definitely want to use the CVS versions of MARC::Record 13:56 kados MARC::File::XML and MARC::Charset 13:56 kados they're on sourceforge 13:56 kados the CPAN versions are really old 13:56 kados kyle: also, make sure you convert everything to utf-8 13:56 kyle ok, sounds good. 13:57 kados I'm 99% sure your records will come out as MARC-8 encoded 13:57 kados to convert to UTF-8 you can go: 13:57 kados my $uxml = $record->as_xml; 13:57 kados my $newrecord = MARC::Record::new_from_xml($uxml, 'UTF-8'); 13:58 kados assuming $record is a MARC::Record object 13:58 kyle ok. 13:58 kados and that you're using the latest SourceForge versions of MARC::REcord, MARC::File::XML and MARC::Charset 13:58 kados it's kind silly to go from binary to xml and back to binary just to change the encoding 13:59 kados but there's not a simpler way to do it in MARC::Record proper with binary marc 13:59 kyle : / 13:59 kyle someday... 14:00 kyle I wish marcxml were ubiquitous, it would make my life easier. 14:00 kados no kidding 14:01 kados kyle: you'll also want to read over the sections in MARC::Charset's Charset.pm on error reporting, etc. 14:01 kyle I can't believe how different our current ILS works, even from other ILSs of the time. 14:01 kyle ok, sounds good. 14:01 kados a lot of this stuff isn't documented and you have to go to the source 14:02 kados but the cool thing is that it's perl and the POD docs are usually pretty good 14:02 kyle yeah, i'd say so. 14:02 kados so perl=easy to read and POD=nice layout :-) 14:02 kados kyle: you should hang out here more often :-) 14:02 kyle i'll try to. 14:03 kados so all three of you coming to france? 14:03 kados or just you and Cindy? 14:04 kyle it seems that way. First it was just me and John. but Cindy rescheduled her vacation to come. 14:04 kyle so it's all three of us now. 14:05 kyle when I though it was just me i was *really* anxious. 14:05 kados hehe 14:05 kyle I imagined myself getting lost in Europe somewhere. 14:05 kados france is no sweat 14:05 kados you should try russia :-) 14:05 kados it gets real messy with visas and such 14:06 kados actually, I got pulled over and had my car searched when I was in Paris last :-) 14:06 kyle my wife went to russia, she said there are essentially no traffic laws and people park wherever they feel like. 14:06 kados they started pulling things out and throwing them on the sidewalk 14:06 kyle that's not cool. 14:06 kados it was tough because I didn't really know my rights 14:07 kyle it's hard enough to know your rights in your own country. 14:07 kados yea, parking in europe is interesting ... eastern europe especially :_) 14:08 kados whenever I get back from europe I'm always surprised at how large our cars are 14:08 kyle I was just thinking about that. 14:08 kyle I know European cars are gennerally much smaller. 14:08 kados yep 14:08 kyle Most american cars wouldn't fit on city streets. 14:09 kados kyle: looks like your commit's coming through 14:09 kyle mine probably would, I like very small cars. Except when moving. 14:09 kyle cool. 14:14 kados kyle: did you do an opac tempalte too? 14:15 owen I see the ccfls stuff coming down with my CVS update 14:15 owen If it was committed all at once, the message is probably being blocked for being too long (awaiting moderator approval) 14:15 kados yea, I approved it 14:16 kados kyle: liblime demo running ccfls template 14:17 kados looks cool 14:17 kyle no opac, at least no yet. 14:17 kyle thanks. 14:17 kados hehe, this rocks 14:18 kados open source _does_ work :-) 14:18 kados kyle: looks like you got current branch displaying as well 14:18 kyle i could definitly use some more eyes to spot those little problems. 14:19 kados at least on some pages 14:19 kyle I know I'm having trouble with finding some color settings. 14:19 kados kyle: one thing 14:19 kados kyle: charset=iso-8859-1 14:19 kados kyle: I bet it's hardcoded in your templates 14:19 kados kyle: check the latest NPL templates, there's a new syspref to store that var 14:19 kyle yeah, you're right. 14:19 kados kyle: chances are you'll want to run utf-8 anyway 14:19 kyle ok 14:20 kyle yeah. 14:21 owen kyle, what library are you with? 14:21 kados owen: Crawford County Federated Library aka Meadville Public 14:21 kados Meadville is to CCFLS as Athens is to NPL 14:21 kyle yup 14:22 owen Ah 14:22 kados kyle: it's the largest branch right? 14:22 kados kyle: meadville I mean 14:22 kyle yes. But the other libraries are actually independent, no branches. 14:22 kados ahh 14:22 kyle it makes getting things done alot harder. 14:23 kados kyle: so you opted against the left-hand bar eh? 14:23 kyle We have to get all the libraries to agree on anything we want to do. 14:23 owen Another WordPress site! Cool :) 14:23 kados kyle: I'm wondering why that was 14:23 kyle I was trying to create the simplest system possible. 14:24 kyle I wanted everything to be very obvious. 14:24 kyle we have alot of librarians who don't like change. 14:24 kados is this what your current system looks like? 14:24 kyle or, I should say, are just afraid of a new system. 14:24 kyle it's DOS based, blue background, white text. 14:25 kados ahh 14:25 kyle it's almost as old as I am ; ) 14:25 kados wow, this will be quite a change 14:25 kados hehe 14:25 kyle yes, to them, it's a huge change. 14:25 kados one thing NPL's librarians missed was the shortcut keys that their old system had 14:25 kados so owen cooked up a few 14:25 kyle but I've had alot of positive feedback on the templates. 14:25 kados sweet 14:26 kyle yeah, I'm not sure if that's going to be an issue here. 14:26 kados yea, it looks very nice 14:26 kyle When most of the librarians here use a computer, they are very mouse-centric. 14:26 kyle they might forget about shortcut keys altogether. 14:26 kados gotcha 14:27 kados yea, I think that's what happend with NPL too 14:27 kados don't think too many folks use the shortcuts 14:27 kyle kados: what browser are you using 14:28 kados kyle: FF 14:28 kados kyle: on OSX 14:28 kados kyle: looks like addbiblio doesn't work 14:28 kyle that's my target browser, I'm not sure how it will render in others. 14:28 kyle what happens? it works here. Maybe I missed a file. 14:29 kados it just reloads the page 14:29 kyle what's the login for the liblime demo? I could take a look. 14:29 kados ahh 14:29 kados kyle: circ / liblime 14:29 kados nevermind 14:29 kados you followd the default convention on that page 14:29 kados rather than the NPL one 14:29 kados where addbiblio takes you directly to the editor 14:30 kados kyle: may want to take a look at recent commits to addbiblo.tmpl 14:30 kados kyle: quite a few cleanups 14:30 kados kyle: in the NPL templates 14:30 owen addbiblio.tmpl is a bear. 14:31 kados yep, a mean one too 14:31 kyle ok. I'll have to do that. 14:32 kados very impressive kyle 14:32 kyle I hope the colors aren't too garish. 14:33 kyle personally, I would have went with a two or three tone theme. But the librarians liked the idea of remember that red is checkout, and so on. 14:33 kados yea, I was just gonna say 14:33 kyle so it's a bit more pragmatic. 14:33 kados for the librarian interface 14:34 kados it's more about pragmatics than beauty :-) 14:34 kyle the graphics are all multilayer png's, so it should be quite easy to change the colors (I used fireworks to make tham). 14:34 kados sweet 14:35 kyle what would be really sweet is to generate them on the fly with image-magick and have the color scheme in the preferences. 14:35 kyle but that's a project on it's own. 14:43 kados we come up with a lot of those around here :-) 14:44 kyle is there a list of ideas online somewhere? we should write this stuff down. Maybe I'll get around to it, eventually. 14:46 owen We used to post enhancement bugs to bugzilla, but that was always like dropping them down a well 14:52 kados hehe, yea 14:53 kyle maybe we should start an "enhancments" blog or wiki, or something. 14:53 kados we've got a blog 14:53 kyle well, i've got to go. I'll drop in tomorrow. 14:53 kados cool ... 14:53 kyle later. 14:53 kados read you tomorrow 14:57 owen ah, here's a good old enhancement bug: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=718 15:01 owen kados: if you're interested, I have more barcodes-related errors to report 15:02 owen Whenever. 15:03 kados owen: sure 15:03 kados owen: hit me with them 15:05 owen I get an error like this 6 times: File does not exist: /home/oleonard/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/barcodes/ITF-32000000135066.png 15:06 owen And this: Couldn't open file /home/oleonard/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/barcodes/new.pdf, No such file or directory can't open an error logg, Permission denied at /home/oleonard/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/barcodes/label-print-pdf.pl line 67 15:06 chris owen does /home/oleonard/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-tmpl/barcodes exist? 15:06 chris and is it writable by the user apache runs as? 15:07 chris -? 15:08 owen I'm a little hazy about permissions issues... it says the Owner is me, and it's not writable by anyone else. 15:08 chris write 15:08 chris right even 15:08 chris man i need coffee 15:08 chris do you have sudo rights? 15:09 chris if you do , sudo chown www-data barcodes 15:09 chris then apache should be able to write to it (to mark the barcode images) 15:09 chris make even 15:10 owen Thanks chris :) 15:13 kados owen: I'll take care of it 15:13 owen being hazy about permissions, I'm curious how this is handled for new installations. Will the installer make sure the permissions are correct? 15:13 kados it should 15:13 kados the apache user is stored in the koha.conf iirc 15:14 kados owen: try now 15:16 owen Okay, yeah. Looks like it's working now 15:16 kados sweet 15:17 owen The print preview isn't quite accurate 15:19 owen So kados is NPL's type of barcode in that list of barcode types? 15:30 kados hmmm 15:30 kados try code39 15:30 kados that should work 15:30 kados NPL's got some funky barcode stuff going on 15:32 kados ahh yea, we hve interleafed 2 of 5 15:32 kados but of course, the barcodes aren't stored as IL2of5 in the db 15:33 kados cause someone had the brilliant idea of stripping off some of the digits in the scanners 15:33 kados :-) 15:33 kados hmmm, still doesn't display 15:34 kados interesting, the preview page doesn't have the whole spine label either 15:34 kados so preview needs some work looks like 18:20 kados si: ! 18:21 kados hehe 20:42 thd kados: rate of progress is 51 records an hour with very little resource consumption. This is certainly mostly server response time. 20:43 kados thd: cool 20:43 kados thd: so how many hours has it been running? 20:43 thd kados: we are at 355/615 20:43 kados cool 20:45 thd kados: it has been running for about 6.75 hours. 20:47 thd kados: bad matches are quite minimal n my spot checks. A title like "Am salmon" deserves to mismatch a pop recording with full contents at LC. 20:51 thd kados: The Alaskan cookery book with every recipe in the full contents was a nice early LC match. 20:51 kados cool 20:53 thd kados: LC does not spend time creating records like that. Many recently published books of which that was a fine example have full contents for 505 supplied by the publisher. 20:55 thd kados: Many Canadian records provide two languages for the price of one with the LCSH in both English and French. 21:00 thd kados: I think the slower time this is taking relative to the first 29 record test is because the hit rate is higher for the records and more servers may be responding. More of them time out in very early morning. 00:42 thd kados: 456/615 total matches, a 74% match rate, from the automated process of 61 records/hour completed 1.05 AM. I will match more manually. Of course, a very few are bad matches and will need to be eliminated. 00:46 thd kados: I have equalled the best expected manual match rate from a highly reliable automated process. 00:46 kados thd: congrats! 00:47 thd kados: wow you are still awake :) 00:48 kados thd: just barely 00:48 kados thd: I'm actually gonna head to bed in a sec 00:48 kados thd: been working on the encoding probs in rel_2_2 00:49 thd kados: I am most of the way through preparing an explanation of the output for you. You can look at it the morning. 00:51 kados great 00:51 kados don't write me a book 00:51 kados :-) 00:51 kados k, I"m off to bed 00:51 kados have fun :-) 00:52 thd kados: no just an explanation of which files are which and the column values for delimited output. 00:52 kados cool 00:52 thd kados: Of course, you know me the column values have detailed explanations. 00:53 thd kados: no guessing required :) 02:52 paul hello world 03:03 pierrick hi paul 03:03 paul aye pierrick 03:25 paul (next week for sure) 03:25 paul code cleaning on the way (+ translations to english, as OP made many things in french :-( ) 03:39 russ hi paul, hi perrick 03:42 pierrick hi russ 03:42 pierrick paul, who is OP ? 03:42 paul (Ouest Provence) 03:43 paul (i was afraid you could have work on borrowers screens... but I loose my cell phone, so could not reach you. + I had no easy web access) 03:44 paul (happy to see you did not work on it ;-) ) 03:45 osmoze hello 03:46 paul hélhuile 03:46 pierrick hdl knew I was working on budgets :-) 03:46 pierrick paul, grande forme aujourd'hui 03:46 pierrick hello osmoze 03:46 osmoze lol 03:46 osmoze :) 03:56 slef si: can you /mode #koha -t please? 05:27 paul osmoze: ... 07:33 paul et revoilà pierrick ! 07:37 pierrick oui, en revenant de déjeuner j'ai pas cliqué sur le bon bouton... et l'ordi s'est éteint 07:37 paul pas glop ! 07:37 paul bon, en attendant, j'ai répondu à ta remarque sur koha-devel 07:38 pierrick oui, j'ai lu (priorité à la mailing-list par rappor à l'IRC) 07:48 kados hi #koha 07:48 kados welcome back paul 07:48 paul hello kados 07:48 kados paul: I committed partial fix for the encoding probs 07:49 kados paul: still working on one problem 07:49 kados paul: but at least now the records can be created without being completely destroyed 07:49 kados paul: (only problem remaining is contained in MARC::File::XML I think) 07:50 paul I've seen "as_xml_record". what is this done for ? 07:51 kados this creates the XML as <record></record> instead of <collection></collection> 07:51 kados but that's not the important fix I don't thing 07:51 kados think 07:52 paul it's 07:52 paul + my $xml= MARC::File::XML::header(C4::Context->preference('marcflavour'),C4::Context->preference('TemplateEncoding')); 07:52 paul ? 07:52 pierrick hi kados 07:53 kados paul: partly yes 07:53 kados paul: also in addbiblio.pl 07:53 paul kados: katipo commited new barcode print in rel_2_2 if I see correctly. 07:53 paul MARC::File::XML->default_record_format( 'UNIMARC' ); 07:53 kados that too 07:53 kados two more lines :-) 07:53 paul does this require an updated MARC::File::XML ? 07:54 paul my $record=MARC::Record->new_from_xml($xml,C4::Context->preference('TemplateEncoding'),C4::Context->preference('marcflavour')); 07:54 paul (twice) 07:54 kados paul: yes, and I'm stillworking in MARC::File::XML so it will require yet another update before I am done I think 07:54 kados paul: 100% :-) 07:54 kados paul: I continue to work on encoding this morning 07:55 paul then no more changes in rel_2_2 and work on head only (except for bugfixes) ? 07:55 paul the good news : I have code from Ouest Provence & should be able to commit it this week on next week. 07:56 paul the less good news : it's poor perl, i fixed many things, but it's still poor. 07:56 paul (it's the borrowers feature) 07:56 paul they should send me tomorrow all features for reserve & circulation 07:59 kados no more changes in rel_2_2++ 07:59 kados except for bugfixes 07:59 kados for instance, the marc_word bug I discovered needs to be fixed before 2.4 IMO 08:13 slef kados: I had something to say to you and I was going to put it in the topic but the topic is locked and there's no memoserv here as far as I know and now I forget what it was :-/ 08:14 kados hehe 08:14 kados yea, si needs to help us out when he gets up 08:20 slef oh yeah: are there notes from 2006-04-10 meeting? 08:24 kados hmmm ... we didn't really have one :-) 08:24 kados it was just pierrick and I 08:28 pierrick slef, during the meeting we talked about the next Bug Squashing Party (planned next week) and about Unicode status (I've sent a mail some minutes ago) 08:29 pierrick kados, what are the required version of additional packages for Zebra-plugin? 08:29 pierrick Net:Z3950::ZOOM? Zebra? Yaz? 08:30 kados pierrick: required versions for a stable system is the latest versions available from indexdata.dk 08:30 kados pierrick: ZOOM 1.1 I think 08:30 kados pierrick: zebra 1.4? 08:31 kados pierrick: not sure about yaz, but latest debian feed from indexdata has correct version 08:31 kados pierrick: sarge feed is several versions behind 08:33 pierrick OK, I update my installed packages 08:35 shedges hi paul 08:35 paul hi shedges 08:35 shedges may I ask a question (or two) about "Installation de Koha sous Windows?" 08:41 shedges paul: are you the author, or hdl, or both? 08:41 paul (sorry, I was on phone) 08:41 paul it's hdl 08:41 paul but he's away & won't be back until tomorrow 08:41 shedges paul: the document refers to a koha-2.2.6 directory, should that be koha-2.4.0? 08:41 paul mmm... no, that should be 2.2.5 08:42 shedges (location of KohaBMutf8.sql) 08:42 paul (as there are some problems for 2.4.0 it seems) 08:42 shedges OK, I list hdl as the author, change 2.2.6 to 2.2.5 08:42 paul hdl planned to release it with 2.2.6, but as 2.2.6 will finally be called 2.4.0 and it has some bugs, we decided to release it now 08:43 shedges thanks! 08:43 paul you're welcome 09:10 cm paul, are you here? 09:10 paul yep 09:10 paul hello cm. 09:10 paul but who is cm ? 09:11 cm hello--this is cindy from CCFLS. :) 09:11 paul hi cindy. 09:11 paul (a liblime customer if i don't mind) 09:11 cm Kados said I should pop in to talk to you. We're coming to the dev week. 09:12 paul wow, great 09:12 paul "we" means how many ppl ? 09:12 kados cm: hey cindy 09:12 cm Yeah, a week in france is not so bad! 09:12 cm hey kados! 09:12 cm three people, paul. John, Kyle and me. 09:12 kados paul: I told them they might need to rent a car to join us if they stay in marseille 09:12 kados paul: all our cars are full, right? 09:12 kados s/our/your/ :-) 09:13 paul maybe yes, maybe no : antoine, my student has a car ! 09:13 cm i booked the hotel. we're staying in the same one as everybody else. 09:13 slef cars? in France? bwahaha 09:13 kados ahh...great! 09:13 slef Cedez le Passage ! 09:13 paul hehe, this hotel will be filled by KohaCon (as it's a small one) 09:13 kados cm: great news! I was worried ther wouln't be space 09:13 slef ...like hell I will... 09:13 kados hehe 09:13 cm at least in france you drive on the proper side of the road. :D 09:13 kados slef walks 40K to the meeting each day :-) 09:13 paul imho, the main problem for an american is to deal with manual driving 09:14 slef slef stays on the trains in France 09:14 paul is wiki.koha.org up now ? 09:14 kados :-) 09:14 slef Autoroutes are masochism, far too full, like to London motorways 09:14 kados paul: yes, but it needs checking to ensure it's completely migrated 09:14 cm can we rent an automatic? 09:14 slef you want wide open farm tracks like East Anglia 09:14 paul http://wiki.koha.org/ => not found 09:14 kados I need to step away for about 20 minutes 09:15 paul you can probably, but that will cost more money 09:15 paul (although i could not tell you how much) 09:15 slef holidayautos.com or easycar? 09:15 kados paul: it works fine for me 09:15 cm we'll have to check into 'em. thanks, slef. 09:15 paul now it works. 09:15 paul strange... 09:16 paul cm: could you give me complete name of ppl coming ? 09:16 cm is there a metro stop near the university? 09:17 cm John Brice, Kyle Hall, Cindy Murdock. 09:17 paul nope. It's something like 1-1.5km from the metro. 09:17 cm that's not too bad. 09:18 paul kados: what's the name of tina & sara pls ? 09:19 paul kados: what do you plan to do between 4th and 8th ? could we have 1 day in Marseille to organize the devWeek ? 09:20 paul (maybe on sunday, I could get you when you arrive, invite you in my home & take few hours to speak of the devWeek program) 09:20 slef Do enterprise rent-a-car have shops in France? 09:20 paul for sure slef 09:21 slef might be easy for foreigners, I guess 09:34 cm I can't find rentals for france at enterprise.com; autoeurope.com has them. we'll have to shop around. 09:34 paul cm: i'm not sure it's a good idea to rent a car for Marseille. 09:35 paul as the hotel is in the center, and it's a problem to get parking 09:35 paul + marseillais (marseille citizens) really drive madly 09:35 paul + you won't have a big need for the car 09:36 paul but do as you want ;-) 09:37 pierrick paul, no parking in the hotel? 09:37 paul I don't think so. but public parking close. 09:37 paul (not cheap) 09:38 kados paul: no plans yet from 4-8, will arrive in marseille on 7th, so maybe we could plan that day? 09:38 paul yep. 09:38 paul do you think we should plan the program before ? 09:38 kados yes, and I intend to make a wiki page with what I think we should do 09:38 paul I don't know, & I must say i'm really really overbooked & don't have time to organize anything 09:39 paul ok, so I let you the lead here 09:39 kados right ... I'm quite busy as well but I hope to have a few days before I leave + some days in Geneva 09:39 paul (you're release manager, so be leader ;-) ) 09:39 kados ok :-) 09:39 pierrick paul, did you plan devWeek "afters" ? 09:39 paul not yet. 09:40 paul I asked SAN-OP, they are ok, but did not suggest anything yet 09:41 cm paul: thanks for the tip. I suspected as much about the crazy driving. ;) 09:58 kados morning owen 10:00 owen Hi 10:03 kados paul owen and pierrick 10:03 kados I made a commit yesterday that completed a transition from 10:04 kados CGIitemtype to itemtypeloop for opac-search.pl 10:04 kados this is directly relevant to the current thread on koha-devel about templates I believe 10:05 kados paul: what is the status of the cloneField? is it stable? 10:05 paul no, the mail on koha-devel is still relevant 10:05 paul (addbiblio & cloneTag) 10:06 paul chris told me he would ask bob to fix it, but no news from nz 10:07 kados ok 10:07 kados nz is working on a major bug in acquisittions I think 10:07 kados quite busy on it from what I understand 10:08 kados so that may explain the delay 10:08 paul do you know which kind of bug ? 10:09 kados no 10:09 kados but it's with budget-based acquisitions 10:09 kados so probably doesn't affect either of us :-) 10:09 kados many other things to absorb this year :-) 10:10 kados (about template mail) 10:10 kados yes, it's still relevant 10:10 kados what I mean is that the commit I made is related to the mail :-) 10:11 kados because if I understand correctly 10:11 kados pierrick is arguing _for_ CGIitemtype 10:11 kados while owen is arguing _against_ it 10:11 kados ie, more control in the template or not 10:12 owen kados: your particular case demonstrated an additional argument against CGIitemtype: the introduction of unstranslatable strings 10:12 kados right 10:12 owen But is there a way to do it that wouldn't introduce that problem? 10:13 owen If you're looping out <option> tags, there's no reason why you couldn't hand-code additional <option>'s above or below the loop 10:13 kados well, what exactly is the problem? 10:14 kados the length of the template strings? 10:15 pierrick IMO, a problem is that we can't use localized strings outside of templates 10:15 owen Actually, I don't think pierrick even addressed the CGIitemtype issue directly 10:15 pierrick we should be allowed to do this with gettext in Perl 10:15 owen His example was the 'selected' attribute in a select list 10:15 paul pierrick : the problem here is that we don't translate "on the fly". 10:15 pierrick owen, you're right I didn't but if I read CGIitemtype examples, I wowuld be OK to use them 10:16 paul so, your solution means having 1 cgi-bin directory for each language 10:16 kados paul: who's solution? 10:16 paul that's really poor I think. 10:16 paul (having strings translated in perl) 10:16 kados ahh, right 10:16 pierrick paul, I understand why we don't translate on the fly (performances I suppose) but I'm not sure this is really relevant 10:16 kados ideally, all strings should be in the template 10:17 pierrick kados, why? 10:17 paul pierrick : this is, unless you run mod-perl. 10:17 kados pierrick: because for translators, it's best 10:17 paul and mod_perl must not be mandatory 10:17 kados pierrick: otherwise, it's going to be too hard to translate everything 10:17 kados pierrick: will have to modify cgi-bin and template dirs 10:18 kados mod_perl means that everything is pre-compiled 10:18 pierrick I never said we should have strings in scripts 10:18 kados ok 10:18 kados so what is your suggestion? 10:19 pierrick I said we should have the possibility to do things like $template->param('text' => gettext('My string to find in a PO file')); 10:19 kados interesting 10:19 pierrick (that's how all other softs works ;-) 10:19 pierrick I invent nothing 10:19 kados right 10:20 kados so a translator has to translate template + create a new PO file? 10:20 pierrick concerning strings in templates, we create useless limitations 10:20 pierrick how could I have "Show 34 budgets"? 10:21 kados where? 10:21 pierrick with Perl I would do sprintf(gettext('Show %d budgets'), scalar @budgets) 10:21 pierrick kados, in a template 10:21 pierrick with template only solution, this is not possible 10:21 kados in the template you woudl ahve 10:22 kados Show <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="number" --> budgets 10:22 pierrick kados, you're not linguist? 10:22 pierrick ;-) 10:22 kados hehe 10:22 owen We've discussed the gettext option before 10:23 owen And one of the reasons for rejecting it is the layer of complexity it puts on the process of creating templates 10:23 kados hang on, I don't quite understand 10:23 kados pierrick: are you suggesting we could have 'budget' and 'budgets'? 10:23 kados pierrick: depending if there were 1 or more budgets? 10:24 pierrick kados, for some languages you have to translate and to change the template, because de the number of budgets have to be at the end of the string 10:24 paul yes pierrick, but our gettext tool handle that ! 10:24 paul it transforms Show <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="number" --> budgets into 10:24 pierrick kados, problems of singular/modal/plural is not what I was pointing and is a very difficult problem 10:24 paul Show %d budgets 10:24 paul that can be translated to : 10:24 paul montre budgets (%d au total) 10:25 paul and the template compiler will generate : 10:25 paul "montre budgets (<!-- TMPL_VAR name="number" --> au total) 10:26 pierrick so you moved complexity to the template translator :-) 10:27 pierrick anyway, I would have liked to be able to reach localized strings from Perl :-) 10:27 pierrick for the pagination_bar for example 10:28 owen What about a /limited/ use of that? For cases of like the pagination bar? 10:29 paul pierrick: the translator tool has been written by ambrose C Li, a chinese guy. So he had most of the problem we could ever get ;-) 10:30 paul (in fact, I had the idea & wrote the 1st version, but it was not with gettext & was really poor. ambrose almost rewrote everything) 10:37 owen kados: are we getting any closer to an answer for you :) 10:37 owen ? 10:37 kados owen: i think so :-) 10:38 kados so the answer is that we move all CGI stuff to loops that the template designer / tranlator can deal wtih 10:49 owen kados: what's new with the expiration dates? 10:50 kados owen: they should be calculated based on the borrower's category rather than hardcoded to 30 days 10:50 kados owen: that is if they are working :-) 10:50 owen Okay, I'll try it out 10:50 paul kados: they are (on head) 10:50 kados paul: this is different ... 10:50 kados paul: it's just a button that NPL requested 10:50 paul ok 10:52 kados hehe 10:56 owen Okay kados, I see one problem: when you renew a patron, it adds X number of years to the expiration date, rather than X number of years to /today's date/ 10:56 owen The latter is what I would expect 10:56 kados owen: ahh 10:56 kados ok, I'll fix that real quick 10:58 kados owen: open circulation.pl 10:58 kados line 130: 10:58 kados my $renewaldate = DateCalc($warningdate, $offset); 10:58 kados change that to: 10:58 kados my $renewaldate = DateCalc('today', $offset); 10:58 kados owen: if it works, commit it 10:58 kados owen: otherwise let me know 11:13 owen Yes, it seems to work fine now 11:37 pierrick I'm leaving office, read you tomorrow folks :-) 11:38 owen Have a good evening, pierrick 11:52 kados paul: got a sec? 11:52 kados paul: I'm wondering what the process is for translation as things change 11:52 kados paul: is there a way to just translate the changes?