Time Nick Message 08:10 paul time to go to lunch. read you later 08:09 paul (stagiaire) 08:09 paul yep. but it's not an employee. 08:09 pierrick will your new employee be at Kohacon ? 08:08 paul (but I saw the new features "live" : they are great !) 08:08 paul yep. I will try it asap. 08:07 pierrick big commit as I can see 08:07 paul but usefull ! 08:07 pierrick s/he/the 08:07 paul yep. 08:07 pierrick paul: seems he night was long... 08:05 paul (kad os sleeping now) 08:00 pierrick 'night America 07:53 paul have sweet dreams. 07:53 kados good night all 07:53 kados paul: now I go to sleep :-) 07:52 kados paul: I committed my modifs ... and they are tested on the liblime demo 07:32 pierrick hi hdl 07:30 hdl hi all btw 07:30 hdl smileglasses 07:30 chris :-) 07:30 hdl And I thought about Easy riders... 07:30 chris ahh 07:29 hdl I was riding to Chambery. for Two days training period. 07:14 thd kados: If the selection tool pointer brought up the label for the collapsed subfield over which it was hovering that might help distinguish them better at the small size or otherwise. 07:11 thd the size for the repeated subfield plus could be a little larger as well as the size of collapsed subfield characters. 07:07 thd yaay labels are back :) 07:01 thd just the ones that are in editor and populated 07:01 thd kados: not the ones that are not editor, those should stay collapsed unless manually opened 07:00 kados thd: give me a sec 06:59 kados thd: that might be possible 06:59 si evening thd 06:58 thd hello si 06:58 thd if only the collapsed in editor ones were expanded when filled :) 06:57 thd yaay 06:57 kados thd: expanded subfields aren't skipped now 06:47 thd kados: you have the most recent that I sent but I fixed it some time ago at the subfield level I think the field was also copied from 001 06:46 kados thd: also, did you ever finish the holdings? 06:46 kados thd: not unless I don't have the most recent data loaded 06:46 thd kados: I thought I fixed that once already :) 06:45 kados thd: I'll look into it 06:45 kados thd: can you fix 003 to not be mandatory please? 06:41 thd kados: If you expand a collapsed subfield the tab key skips it when tabbing through the adjacent subfields. 06:33 thd all better now 06:27 chris 09:27PM|<kados> (BTW: only tab 0 is up-to-date ) 06:27 chris thd 06:26 thd kados: later tabs seem to have characteristics of appearance and behaviour prior to your recent changes. 06:24 thd kados: why do the later tabs look different from tab 0? 06:24 jyl57 Welcome on board, koha's board I mean ! 06:23 jyl57 Hi Pierrick 06:23 pierrick Hi jyl57 06:18 jyl57 Salut ! 06:18 thd kados: I think the problem that I had identified with multiple ISBNs failing to appear in biblioitems.1SBN and having the binding abbreviation truncated may be be related to some ISBN validation code gone wrong but as I said I have not traced it. 06:17 paul hello jyl57 06:11 thd paul: I will have to repay my sleep debt sometime in compensation. 06:10 thd paul: I could not write good original code without being alert but I can still write useful regexes and plod through 3,600 subfields. 06:09 thd kados seems to be able to code with no sleep. 06:08 thd paul: The range of tasks that I can perform with little sleep is somewhat limited. 06:07 thd paul: Although it is bad for productivity for the week as a whole. 06:06 thd paul: If I do not eat enough and am excited about something I can stay awake much too long :) 06:04 thd paul: I was too tired to sleep well and then kados pinged me to show the wonderful new features and major bugfixes. 06:03 thd kados: with reference to our previous discussion of ISBNs we need to replace the ISBN validation which may be breaking multiple ISBNs and binding information with ISBN-13. All systems are supposed to have been ISBN 13 compliant since January. 06:02 paul (do you ever sleep ?) 06:02 paul thd : I agree. 05:58 thd s/features/modules/ 05:58 thd paul: some people are afraid of being liberated all at once so one can liberate them by degrees with the best exportable features in Koha. 05:56 thd paul: I think that the guided record editor as a separate module would be a great way to expose more people to Koha even on other systems until they switch completely for full freedom. 05:54 paul they have to be copmpleted, for sure 05:54 paul I just suggested a few things. 05:54 thd paul: you had suggested an API for the record editor to do just that some months ago. 05:50 thd paul: I know that some cataloguers will never be happy unless they have nothing more than a text editor with a few extensions. Something will be needed to satisfy them but I think guided forms will be the future and everyone will eventually copy the Koha way if we do not separate the record editor so that it can be used with other systems as a stand alone disintegrated module. 05:50 chris i have to stay up til midnight to watch it now 05:49 chris yay nz in the final 05:46 thd as fast as is missing above that is my goal speed parity with greater precision 05:46 chris :) 05:46 paul his school validate the project, I can't change it ! 05:46 paul I don't plan to abandon it : i'll have a student for 2 month (april/may) 05:45 thd paul: please do not abandon the guided form based scheme my goal is to make the guided form based system as typing the codes into a text editor. 05:44 chris sounds very interesting 05:44 chris paul 05:43 thd paul: even though his head hurt as I asked him to provide for all the possibilities he managed to extend hidden in a way that worked quite well except for the default that I was not awake enough to catch until just after he had gone to sleep that collapsing or minimising a subfield already in the form hides the content even if populated. 05:43 paul (I wrote a paper about this a few months ago) 05:42 paul that's the idea chris, but with many help ;-) 05:42 chris :-) 05:42 chris and they can just type the marc in 05:42 chris just give them one textarea 05:42 paul I just try to find an idea to have the cleanest form as possible at the beginning of a new biblio. 05:42 paul that will provide en "empty" form, that the cataloguer will fill. 05:42 paul of course thd, that's why we will write a new system for 3.0 05:39 thd paul: so I was not happy about the constraint that imposed upon thinking well about the design but kados had more sleep than I and was able to think very well under the pressure for an interim solution to the problem that you cannot fit 3,600 subfields in a form and have a responsive system 05:36 kados heh ... yea :-) 05:36 thd kados: we did this mostly in one night while I was half asleep and Kados had a customer starting in the morning. 05:35 thd because you would have no way to know what had been filled or not without expanding. 05:34 thd paul: also, current behaviour that needs to be changed actually hides filled content of the collapsed subfields included in the editor by default which is not good. 05:33 paul ok thd. 05:33 thd paul: my goal was the same as your idea but moving the mouse pointer to expand a collapsed subfield subfield takes too much time and I only retained a few collapsed ones to see what collapsed looks like. 05:31 thd paul: as kados implements more keyboard friendly features in his JavaScript I would change the way the form is presented. 05:30 paul not necessary. 05:30 paul kados : ok, that's almost similar, I agree. 05:30 kados paul: or do you mean a function that expands all subfields at once? 05:29 thd paul: I do understand well what you mean now I was merely trying to make something quick to tab through without a fast way to expand the collapsed subfields when needed. 05:29 kados paul: but we specify at the level of subfield not tag 05:29 kados paul: we already have that :-) 05:29 paul should change nothing on network/memory. 05:29 paul thd : my idea is just to minimise the subfields that are here, so that's just a "visibility" property 05:28 thd paul: it is a problem to minimise many subfields as the form quickly becomes too large for memory and the network 05:28 paul in tab 0, 024 is a good candidate too 05:28 kados paul: we can already choose to do that based on the visibility flag ... but on the subfield level rather than the tag level 05:27 kados (BTW: only tab 0 is up-to-date ) 05:27 paul => takes a large part of the screen, 80% ofr the time for nothing ! 05:27 paul the 210 is rarely filled I bet. 05:27 kados we can do that now in fact 05:27 paul in your sample, tab 2 05:27 kados right 05:27 paul but with all fields minimized by default 05:26 paul when ADDING a biblio, we could have the tag 701, 05:26 kados why not just mark the subfields? 05:26 paul because some are while some are not ! 05:26 paul in UNIMARC, the 701 will be something like 20% filled. 05:26 kados I'm not sure why tags are marked mandatory 05:26 thd hello I have been communicating outside of logbot because I was half asleep 05:25 paul * it's in tab, say 5, with subfields $a, $x, $z. 05:25 paul * 701 field is "NON mandatory". 05:25 paul I mean : in framework, you can say : 05:25 paul hi thd. 05:25 thd paul I do not understand what you are asking immediately 05:25 kados we have a fairly compex method for determining 'visibility' currently 05:24 kados I will think about this and discuss it with thd 05:24 kados hmmm 05:24 paul we have those informations. 05:23 paul if a tag is non mandatory (& has no values if it's a modif), we could hide all subfields by default. 05:23 kados sure 05:23 paul a suggestion for hidden tags : 05:23 paul ah, ok, that's great too ! 05:23 kados ignoring subfieldids 05:22 kados it will start at 000 and increment correctly 05:22 kados hit 'tab' 05:22 kados no ... after page loads 05:22 kados (yes it's on; the labels will show up if you roll over the tag or the subfield id 05:21 paul the "waiting while page load" ? 05:21 kados hit the 'tab' key 05:21 paul advancedMARC editor is ON on antioch isn't it ? 05:21 kados ahh ... when the page loads 05:20 paul what do you call "proper tabs" ? 05:20 paul (but same second ;-) ) 05:20 paul kados won ! 05:20 kados heh 05:20 chris good idea 05:20 kados good idea 05:20 paul I think i'll rewritte only on head, to avoid bugs. 05:20 paul (I wrote addbiblio when I was a beginner with MARC::Record, and made many stupid things) 05:19 kados ok ... but be quite careful :-) 05:19 paul I think we can /10 the number of loops to do. 05:19 paul + I will improve a little bit the .pl, because many foreach nested are useless. 05:19 kados paul: it will be tested in a production system before I commit 05:19 chris :-) 05:19 paul yes, i'm 100000% ok ! 05:18 kados paul: and head of course 05:18 kados paul: rel_2_2 if it's ok for you 05:18 paul hi pierrick. 05:18 pierrick hello :-) 05:18 paul do you plan to submit this on rel_2_2 or head ? 05:18 kados yep 05:18 paul for instance, the + submit the form, that's a lot of network & time 05:18 kados it might take some time 05:18 paul I was speaking of the +, sorry : 05:17 kados maybe eventually we can convert + to the new method for tags too 05:17 kados paul: no because MARC framework does not have a 'hidden' for tags 05:17 paul yep. For instance, the + submit the form ... 05:17 kados paul: you mean hide a complete field? 05:17 paul same thing somewhere for a complete field ? 05:17 kados (so if the book had hardcover/softcover, etc.) 05:17 chris ahh right 05:16 kados anyway, xisbn is a web service ... you send them an isbn and they send you back all the isbns of all the same items 05:16 paul except it's so small that it's not easy to click on it ! 05:16 paul ah, ok, now I see. 05:16 kados paul: this is the 'visibility' feature 05:16 kados paul: click on them 05:16 paul no 05:16 paul what are the small "bz" just below the 010$a for example 05:15 chris nope 05:15 kados do you guys know about xisbn service from oclc? 05:15 kados here's what I'm working on now 05:15 chris :-) 05:15 paul :-) 05:15 kados we're very close to having one of the top MARC editors on the planet :-) 05:15 chris hehe 05:15 paul (yes chris, and he told me I was early on my keyboard !) 05:15 kados hehe 05:15 chris cut down on the coffee man :-) 05:14 kados chris: yea :-) 05:14 paul yes, very great ! 05:14 chris are you still awake kados 05:14 kados like 015$a 05:14 kados ahh ... look for small + next to some subfields 05:14 paul yes, i'm on it, but can't see. 05:14 kados I sent you a link in pmesg 05:14 paul what do you mean by "proper tabs" ? 05:14 kados try it out 05:13 paul how do you handle subf repeatability? 05:13 kados heh 05:13 kados * some special mouse cursor effects 05:13 paul there will be no need for a new MARC editor soon ;-) 05:12 kados * add a new systempreference for 'advancedMARCEditor' which allows professional cataloger to remove tag and subfield labels (off by default) 05:12 kados * add some nice formatting and proper 'tabs' 05:12 kados * hide indicators and subfield tags of fixed fields 05:12 kados * subfield reordering 05:11 kados * subfield repeatability 05:11 kados here's what i added: 05:11 kados I'm not quite finished 05:11 kados no commit yet 05:11 paul I've seen a commit, but not investigated it in fact 05:10 kados paul: I have made many many improvements on the editor while you slept 05:10 kados great 05:10 kados hehe 05:10 paul (& have seen ed & mike mails on perl4lib. I'll try to give cvs file:xml a try today) 05:09 paul so yes, i'm back ! 05:09 paul it's 9am in France. 05:09 paul so soon ? 05:09 kados paul: back so soon? 22:49 thd not very awake but back :) 22:49 thd kados: I am back 18:22 CaptPancakes I was definately making it way to hard on myself, thanks kados 18:21 CaptPancakes that was much easier 18:21 CaptPancakes my goodness... 18:16 kados np 18:16 CaptPancakes okay, I'll try it, instead... thanks 18:15 kados use that as your guide 18:15 CaptPancakes yes, it's there. 18:15 kados it puts it in /etc by default 18:15 CaptPancakes okay 18:15 kados well if you run installer.pl it'll generate a koha-httpd.conf file for you 18:15 kados huh 18:15 CaptPancakes anyways, I'm using the Hints file that came with the tar.gz. I'm using it strictly for a generic httpd.conf that will only run koha 18:14 CaptPancakes I'm going by what documentation I can find 18:14 CaptPancakes now I'm to the part where I need to setup my httpd.conf file, I would assume 18:14 CaptPancakes I mostly answered with the defaults, cause I'm just testing 18:13 kados k 18:13 CaptPancakes and I've untar'd and ran installer.pl 18:12 CaptPancakes I've got all of my deps. in order. 18:12 CaptPancakes 2.0.52 18:11 kados what version are you running? 18:11 kados right 18:11 CaptPancakes I'm learning I should say =) 18:11 CaptPancakes I'm not very familiar with Apache 18:11 kados gotcha 18:11 CaptPancakes here's my scenario... I'm running Clarkconnect Home 3.2, it's based on CentOS which isn't too different from Fedora 18:10 kados sure 18:10 CaptPancakes cool, I have a question about the install procedure 17:55 CaptPancakes anyone here? 15:08 kados lunch 15:01 kados yay logbot!