Time  Nick     Message
10:59 paul     * check with all subfields => authorities found : ok, i'm sure
10:59 paul     then you should do :
10:59 paul     (that's a situation build_authorities can't handle yet, but I answer and suppose you will modify the script)
10:58 kados    but very good auth records (fresh from OCLC)
10:58 kados    if I have many "john doe" some with birthdate and some without in bib records
10:57 paul     if you are confident with your datas, are sure that their quality is correct, you can put every subfield in key.
10:57 paul     it depends on what is in your datas !
10:57 kados    and what should be in 'key'?
10:57 kados    (I don't quite understand what to do)
10:56 kados    so what do you suggest I put in 'other' when importing MARC21 authority records ?
10:56 kados    yep
10:56 paul     that's why authorities are better in unimarc imho
10:56 kados    right
10:55 paul     iirc, in marc21 "linkage is a local problem, solved by local solutions".
10:55 kados    right
10:55 paul     that does not exist in marc21
10:55 paul     the diff between unimarc and marc21, is that in unimarc we have the $3
10:55 kados    in fact, I think MARC21 does not have this feature
10:55 kados    currently I have no such cases :/
10:54 kados    ahh ... so you have cases where an ID was preserved from the old system
10:54 paul     it's filled by build_authorities
10:54 paul     no, the $9 is our INTERNAL-KOHA linkage.
10:54 kados    I don't already have $9
10:54 paul     because it's supposed to be created/added by build_authorities.
10:54 kados    I set it up for some tags
10:54 kados    it is linkage right?
10:54 paul     you already have a $9 ?
10:54 paul     if you put key=a|b|d and have "1840-1894" and "1840-1894 (dec)" in 2 differents biblios, then you'll get 2 authorities, even if it's the same person
10:53 kados    I should select $9 as the key
10:53 kados    in marc21 if I have good data and authortiies
10:53 kados    I almost understand
10:53 kados    hmmm
10:53 paul     you have to choose between quality of your data and quality of your authorities !
10:52 paul     maybe you can't rely on birthdate.
10:52 paul     maybe one is 1840-1894 and the other 1920-
10:52 paul     there maybe more than 2 "john doe" in your DB
10:52 paul     yes
10:52 paul     for every subfield you want to report in authority but NOT use as a primary key, you have the "other"
10:51 kados    $3 is linkage?
10:51 paul     depending on your DB structure/quality, you may want to do one thing or the other !
10:51 paul     and you will get 2 differents authorities entries.
10:51 paul     if you set key=$a$b$d, then they are NOT the same authority
10:50 paul     and build_auth consider them as only 1 authority.
10:50 paul     if you set key = 3 (and only 3) then those 2 lines are similar.
10:50 paul     700$31234$aPOULAIN$bPaul
10:50 paul     oups, a 3 missing.
10:49 paul     700$1234$aPOULAIN$bPaul
10:49 paul     700$31234$apoulain$bPaul$d1968-
10:49 paul     (using 700 as personal name, and UNIMARC)
10:49 paul     ===== 1ST one ======
10:49 paul     it depends on what you try to migrate. let me take some examples...
10:48 kados    meaning all subfields to be used in a search?
10:48 paul     it's all subfields that you want to use as PRIMARY KEY.
10:48 kados    heh
10:48 paul     NO.
10:48 kados    key is all subfields, I understant his
10:48 paul     (at most 3)
10:47 paul     in UNIMARC, there are not so many.
10:47 kados    for a NAME entry, this will include: X00, X10, X11, X51 ... very many tags!
10:47 paul     => yes
10:46 kados    does this mean the list of bib MARC tags that this authority will fill?
10:46 paul     (bulkauthimport is really outdated & probably don't work at all)
10:45 kados    \ttaglist : the list of MARC tags using this authority
10:45 kados    I will paste in each element with the included explaination then explain my question:
10:45 kados    I cannot understand fully the whattodo hash
10:44 kados    I have read through both build_authorities.pl and bulkauthimport.pl
10:44 kados    but we will skip for now :-)
10:43 kados    but not for _editing_
10:43 kados    for _searching_
10:43 kados    in MARC21 PERSONAL NAME and CORPORATE NAME are grouped within NAME
10:43 paul     ok, let's delay this question
10:43 paul     In unimarc we have a little bit more search points, as, for authors, you may have author PERSONAL NAME or CORPORATE name.
10:43 kados    until I have more information
10:43 kados    ok ... we can skip that one :-)
10:42 paul     (or am not sure to see)
10:42 paul     yes, but I don't see where the problem is
10:42 kados    paul: does that make more sense?
10:40 kados    but as I'm not a cataloger I can't be 100% sure
10:40 kados    but I _think_ there are potentially many more editing frameworks desired
10:39 kados    (also called the headings)
10:39 kados    names, name/title combinations, uniform titles, or subjects.
10:38 kados    in MARC21 there are only 4 valid search points
10:38 kados    the problem is ... if I understand correctly
10:38 kados    the user must select one before performing the search
10:38 kados    so if you have NAME, SUBJECT, TITLE ...
10:37 kados    in authorities search, you have search points defined as the frameworks
10:37 kados    you have an option to search: 'titie', author, subject
10:37 kados    a search point means that when you go to search
10:37 paul     mmm... I don't see what you're speaking of.
10:36 kados    right, but they are also used as search points in authorites if I'm not mistaken
10:35 paul     and authtype for authorities
10:35 paul     I use framework in biblios.
10:35 paul     define the MARC templates, for biblio editing
10:34 kados    for instance: what is the role of the 'framework'?
10:34 kados    some of them I asked yesterday
10:34 kados    related to authorities
10:34 kados    paul: ok ... so my last question is actually several questions
10:33 kados    hdl: the db is a gziped mysqldump
10:33 hdl      ok
10:33 paul     yep
10:33 kados    paul: have time for my last question?
10:33 hdl      tarbal ?
10:33 kados    paul: while hdl sorts out serials problems ...
10:32 kados    hdl: ahh ... I haven't seen this page yet because of Internal Server Error :-)
10:32 hdl      unfortunately
10:32 kados    (i clicked on the wrong button)
10:32 kados    it fails on both :/
10:32 kados    wait ... I'm wrong
10:32 hdl      Callnumber Barcode  branch itemstatus location
10:32 hdl      Issue 			
10:32 hdl      Numbered  	 planned for  	 Status  	 Notes
10:32 kados    it does ... !
10:32 kados    http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-detail.pl?subscriptionid=3
10:31 kados    but this:
10:31 kados    statecollection page does not fail
10:31 kados    http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-detail.pl?subscriptionid=4
10:31 kados    why does this:
10:31 kados    interesting
10:31 kados    same error
10:30 hdl      you have a new line in statecollection page :
10:28 kados    liblime.com/koha_liblime.sql.gz is the database
10:28 hdl      In default template :
10:27 kados    (while I wait)
10:27 kados    hdl: how do I add items to a subscription?
10:26 kados    gzipping
10:25 kados    dumping db now
10:24 kados    liblime.com/koha_liblime.tgz is the install tarball (well, it is the cvs repo the install is symlinked too)
10:22 kados    sure
10:22 hdl      would you make me available a dump of your base and a tarball of your install ?
10:21 kados    strange that it still shows up ...
10:21 hdl      Never could get onto the page.
10:21 hdl      This is the one I TRIED to add.
10:21 kados    hdl: is that the one you added?
10:20 kados    hdl: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-detail.pl?subscriptionid=3
10:20 kados    [Tue Mar 07 05:17:39 2006] [error] [client] Premature end of script headers: statecollection.pl, referer: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-detail.pl?subscriptionid=3
10:20 kados    [Tue Mar 07 05:17:39 2006] [error] [client]  at /var/www/liblime.com/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/bull/statecollection.pl line 160, referer: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-detail.pl?subscriptionid=3
10:20 kados    [Tue Mar 07 05:17:39 2006] [error] [client] HTML::Template->output() : fatal error in loop output : HTML::Template::param() : attempt to set parameter 'itemlocationloop' with a scalar - parameter is not a TMPL_VAR! at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/HTML/Template.pm line 2963, referer: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-detail.pl?subscriptionid=3
10:19 kados    did it fail ... shoot
10:19 hdl      Internal server error
10:19 hdl      can you show me the logs ?
10:19 kados    (in Subscription summary, 'end date' is missing)
10:18 kados    btw: 'Waited' should be 'Waiting' in english
10:18 kados    (suggesting the problem is not always present)
10:17 kados    (IIRC yesterday, I could add one but your's failed)
10:17 kados    hdl: can you try adding the one you did yesterday?
10:17 kados    hmmm ... I just added a subscription and it seems to have worked
10:16 hdl      (HTML::Template version)
10:16 hdl        2.7
10:15 kados    done
10:15 kados    Checking for data required in table systempreferences...
10:14 kados    Checking for data required in table userflags...
10:14 kados    synch'ing biblioitems
10:14 kados    synch'ing biblio
10:14 kados    synch'ing items
10:14 kados    synch'ing borrowers
10:14 kados      Alter encoding in marc_breeding
10:14 kados    connected to your DB. Checking & modifying it
10:14 kados    $ updater/updatedatabase
10:14 kados    right
10:13 hdl      He says we are passing him a scalar in place of loop.
10:13 kados    what version of HTML::Template are you running?
10:13 hdl      The problem comes from a failure in HTML::Template output calculation
10:12 kados    I do
10:12 hdl      But normally, if you have serialsadditems
10:12 paul     there is a new systempref, so maybe yes.
10:12 kados    I run it now again
10:12 hdl      you may try.
10:11 kados    hdl: maybe I need to run updatedatabase?
10:11 hdl      Really Strange.
10:11 kados    no reported updates
10:11 kados    I just did cvs update from C4 dir ...
10:11 hdl      (paul : kados problem results in a 550 Internal server error)
10:10 hdl      (I don't remember which C4 file I modified to add serialsadditem Koha.pm or Bull.pm)
10:10 kados    I will check right now
10:09 hdl      did you update C4/*
10:09 hdl      kados
10:08 kados    right ...
10:08 paul     but i'm like hdl : I never had this problem.
10:08 kados    I also don't understand how to add an item with a serial
10:08 paul     I saw (if you speak of adding a serial)
10:08 kados    http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1048
10:08 kados    sometimes I cannot save a newly created serial
10:08 kados    I'm having trouble with rel_2_2 serials
10:07 kados    shorter one first:
10:07 kados    I have two questions left ... both quite long
10:07 kados    I hope so
10:07 paul     (unless savannah goes faster suddenly)
10:07 kados    heh
10:06 paul     expect it in april in your mailbox ;-)
10:06 kados    true
10:06 paul     ok, i'll write something to koha-devel.
10:06 paul     i'm afraid we could introduce new bugs with what is in rel_2_2, thus I think it's better to move the 2nd digit to warn the libraries.
10:06 kados    it's ok with me to be 2.4.0
10:06 kados    2.4.0 perhaps
10:05 paul     ok, for NPL, it would make sense to have itemcallnumber based on framework.
10:05 kados    (they use Dewey for non-fiction and a internal classification for Fiction)
10:05 paul     should we call the next release 2.2.6 or 2.4.0 ? because there are a LOT of new features, even if the DB schema did not change.
10:05 kados    (this may apply to NPL for instance)
10:05 kados    (only if a library uses more than one classification system I suspect)
10:04 paul     (but maybe i'm wrong)
10:04 paul     (+ I don't think we need a different value for each framework)
10:04 kados    your turn :-)
10:04 kados    ok
10:04 paul     because it was simple, quick & not too dirty.
10:04 paul     it's the default value. Thus, when you edit an item, it's automatically filled with 676$a, but you can overwrite it.
10:03 kados    why is it defined in sysprefs rather than the MARC framework?
10:03 paul     for example : 676a if a library has physical shelves based on dewey
10:03 paul     it's used to define the DEFAULT biblio subfield that will be automatically reported as itemcallnumber when creating a new item.
10:02 kados    what is the 'itemcallnumber' setting in sysprefs?
10:02 kados    ok ... one from me :-)
10:02 paul     or another one from you ?
10:02 kados    sure
10:02 paul     my second question then ?
10:01 kados    make sense?
10:01 paul     ah, OK got it !
10:01 kados    c
10:01 kados    b
10:01 kados    a
10:01 kados    650
10:01 kados    c
10:01 kados    b
10:01 kados    a
10:01 kados    650
10:01 kados    but my clients prefer:
10:01 kados    c
10:01 kados    b
10:01 kados    a
10:01 kados    c
10:01 kados    b
10:01 kados    a
10:01 kados    650
10:01 kados    your clients prefer the MARC labels to look like this:
10:00 kados    650 $a $b $c
10:00 kados    650 $a $b $c
10:00 kados    say you have two 650 tags like this:
10:00 kados    so for example
10:00 kados    was customized for your clients to be non-standard IIRC
10:00 kados    LabelMARCView: the previous code for display of MARC in OPAC results
09:58 paul     (i've another question in fact, so 2. But the 2nd one is not a quick one ;-) )
09:58 kados    right ...
09:58 paul     (your new systempref)
09:58 paul     I don't understand what LabelMARCView does
09:57 kados    your turn to ask ... :-)
09:57 kados    it should be enough I think
09:57 kados    ok ... what is the upper limit on TEXT?
09:56 paul     it could be TEXT, I agree
09:56 kados    (or actually, it might be of type 'text' now)
09:56 paul     (i've a quick question too)
09:56 kados    the current size of the 'search also' field is 255 chars
09:56 kados    ok good ... next questions
09:55 kados    yes, default
09:55 kados    that first query scares me :-)
09:55 paul     )
09:55 paul     (I suppose the framework is the default one.
09:55 paul     then mysql -uX -p XXX <new_framework.sql
09:55 paul     delete * from marc_*_structure where frameworkcode='';
09:54 paul     a sql dump of the 2 tables. then i'll include them as replacement in marc_datas/sql/marc21_en
09:54 kados    In fact, what is the best way to upgrade a framework (bib or auth)
09:53 kados    my first question is whats' the best way for thd to distribute the new MARC21 bib framework he's been working on?
09:53 paul     throw them, i'm listening
09:53 paul     and i think it's better when starting : he will have enough problems with HEAD bugs to avoid DB ones ;-)
09:53 kados    paul: looks like thd may have already asked some of them ...
09:53 kados    paul: so I actually have several questions
09:52 kados    pierrick: that'll work too :-)
09:52 kados    paul: yes in fact :-)
09:52 kados    you could also obtain some MARC and use bulkmarcimport ...
09:52 paul     full of authorities dreams ?
09:52 pierrick paul gave me a dump of a 2.2 installation from EMN (Ecole Mines Paris)
09:52 paul     hello kados. nice sleep ?
09:51 kados    and use LOAD DATA INFILE to  load it in
09:51 kados    pierrick: so you could, for instance, create a CSV file with some fake borrower information
09:51 pierrick hi joshua
09:51 pierrick (xchat, ça dépanne, mais je compte bien maîtriser irssi)
09:51 kados    pierrick: I'd suggest you load in data elements separately so you can get familiar with the process
09:50 kados    hi guys
09:41 osmoze   c est bien mieux xchat non pierrick  ;)
08:26 pierrick bon alors je quitte irssi que je ne maîtrise pas du tout, je reviens avec Xchat, c'est plus intuitif
08:25 paul     mmm... c'est sur channel privé !
08:24 pierrick Paul: do you have sample data to give me ?
08:13 thd      enjoy your lunch paul
08:09 thd      paul: OK now the function is clear.
08:09 paul     that will be in biblio !
08:09 paul     as this table is dropped, we have to put it somewhere else.
08:08 paul     the framework attached to a biblio is in marc_biblio in 2.2
08:08 paul     nope.
08:07 thd      paul: So you mean the framework types could be stored in one instead of two tables :) ?
08:06 paul     (I mean in 2.2.x, as marc_biblio will die in 3.0. and the link to framework will be/is stored in biblio table)
08:06 paul     biblio_framework and marc_biblio
08:05 paul     yep :
08:05 thd      paul: Are there also two tables for bibliographic frameworks?
08:03 paul     hello pierrick
08:03 paul     authority number 1244535, that is also a PERSONAL NAMES
08:03 pierrick (hello, by the way :-)
08:03 paul     auth_header : authority number 1353968, that is a PERSONAL NAMES
08:03 pierrick misc/sampledata-1.2 does not work, due to DB scheme modification
08:03 pierrick I'm looking for sampledata compatible with current HEAD
08:03 paul     auth_type : PERSONAL NAMES
08:02 paul     (look at the DB scheme, on koha.org/wiki)
08:02 thd      paul: I miss something.
08:02 paul     nope.
08:02 thd      paul: would that same content not function in one table?
08:01 paul     auth_header contains 1 row for each auth type.
08:00 paul     1 row for 1 auth type
08:00 paul     auth_types just contain authority definition (head of structure)
08:00 thd      ?
08:00 thd      paul: what is the function of each. Why two tables.
08:00 paul     yes
07:59 thd      auth_header and auth_types.
07:59 thd      paul: authority types are stored in two tables.
07:58 paul     (say in 2, to be sure)
07:58 paul     but i'll be back in one hour and a half.
07:58 paul     yep.
07:58 thd      ?
07:58 thd      paul: you mean I have ten minutes to ask you something before you leave for lunch :)
07:57 paul     leaving for lunch in 10mn...
07:57 thd      paul: are you there?
06:14 paul     have a good night
06:13 russ     catch you later
06:13 russ     but now i need to go to bed
06:13 russ     cool - i'll use the info i already have, and i will forward you a login to the cms for the website so you can see it before it goes live
06:12 paul     yep
06:11 russ     is that ok with you?
06:10 russ     and promoting the event
06:10 russ     paul - i will start making some pages to go up on koha.org that can be used for reference
06:07 chris    but the big papers are only interested if its something big, or new
06:07 chris    i would think only small non-specialised papers might be .. if you have them (here we have a few small free newspapers, who run pretty much any articles people send them)
06:05 paul     I'm not sure TV and non-specialised press could be interested.
06:04 chris    cool
06:04 paul     I think/hope Ineo will do. They plan to do something with specialized press at least (there are something like 5 librarian oriented news papers)
06:03 chris    ?
06:03 chris    paul, when its a little bit closer to the time, do you think we could/should contact some media in paris and marseille, see if they are interested
05:59 russ     as in loosely organised at the moment
05:59 russ     it sounds like it is still a bit loose
05:59 russ     umm
05:59 paul     russ : another question about the meeting ?
05:58 chris    yep, its pretty common
05:58 paul     lol (and available is most languages i've been told)
05:57 chris    paul is quite easy :-)
05:57 osmoze   ok paul :)
05:57 chris    ive been practising henri damien
05:57 chris    :-)
05:57 russ     :-)
05:57 paul     * Anna W..., CMI librarian (she's polish, her name is a nightmare for a frenchy, that's why I write W...)
05:56 paul     * pascale nalon, from ENSMP
05:56 paul     we also should have 2 librarians :
05:56 paul     I'll take care of coffee, stil have to speak with anna on those details.
05:56 chris    hi paul
05:56 paul     hello chris.
05:55 paul     + some restaurants close. Just have to check if we can get some vegetarian food.
05:55 chris    and a cafe nearby ?
05:55 chris    :)
05:55 paul     That's enough.
05:55 paul     * a good net connexion
05:55 paul     * the room (in CMI, a french library of mathematics, in Marseille, in one of Marseille University)
05:54 paul     for the developper meeting, we already have all what is needed :
05:53 russ     ah
05:53 paul     (if osmoze reads this thread, he will see very interesting things. pls jean sebastien, don't speak publicly of this yet. announcement in a week or 2)
05:52 russ     ok
05:52 paul     payments : still undefined.
05:52 paul     I just manage the "who speaks of what"
05:52 russ     right - so they will take the payments?
05:52 paul     and Ineo will manage registering too.
05:51 paul     yep.
05:51 paul     Ineo will manage mailings to invite pple widely (they already have the coordinates of the 1000 main libraries in France + we have 2-3 major mailing lists)
05:51 russ     ok cool - so if was to do a form on the koha.org site, it could submit to that address?
05:51 paul     we have a mail address conference.mai06@koha-fr.org for registering.
05:51 russ     great
05:50 paul     we already have a room (= ENSMP, still to be confirmed, but seems OK)
05:50 russ     we = katipo
05:50 russ     bit of background: i have lost count of the number of conference websites we have done for vairous things
05:50 paul     we will do it ourself (Ineo & me)
05:49 russ     are you thinking of hiring a professional conference organisor - or doing it yourselves?
05:48 russ     yep
05:48 paul     ;-)
05:48 paul     (May, 3 I mean. It's day 2)
05:48 paul     for day 3, we will probably ask a little bit more. the idea being to have some funds to give to the future NPO. that could be something like EUR50
05:47 russ     it is a good idea to ask for a small amount
05:47 russ     yep
05:47 paul     librarians will be OK to pay a small fee, and, once they have pay, they come. Otherwise, we may have zillions of registering, but only a few people.
05:46 paul     we think we will ask for a small fee (something like EUR15) for the 1st day.
05:46 paul     ok
05:46 russ     public
05:46 paul     are you speaking of the day for public demo (2-3) or the developper meeting ?
05:46 russ     this is for the events on the tuesday and the weds
05:45 russ     do people need to pay? do they need to register?
05:45 russ     ok here we go
05:45 russ     http://www.stats.govt.nz/census/default.htm
05:44 paul     throw the questions.
05:44 paul     census day ?
05:44 russ     the conference - how is that being organised?
05:42 russ     just finishing my form :-)
05:42 russ     its census day in nz
05:42 hdl      hello osmoze
05:42 russ     hi paul
05:41 paul     russ, i'm here.
05:00 osmoze   hello
04:48 russ     cool
04:48 hdl      in about half an hour.
04:48 russ     do you know if paul is going to be around soon?
04:48 hdl      hi russ
04:48 russ     hi hdl
04:39 thd      hdl: he was awake long past now Friday night and Saturday morning when he could not stop working on authorities but he is not as crazy as me ordinarily.
04:37 hdl      :)
04:37 hdl      But I tried anyway.
04:37 hdl      thd: seems not.
04:37 thd      hdl: Is kados awake?
04:31 hdl      I shall try and delete mine that works, to see if I get the same error.
04:31 hdl      And default templates ends in Internal server error.
04:29 hdl      npl donot propose data input for barcodes or branches and so on and so forth...
04:27 hdl      kados : I tried npl and default templates :
00:39 russ     thd :-)
00:29 thd      back in the correct universe now
00:27 thd      russ: unless I am now living in an alternate universe :)
00:26 thd      russ: yes sorry to have disturbed you with user error issuing IRC commands
00:25 russ     thd: so you are all good now?
00:24 thd      I was certain that I had always done it the same way but I must be mistaken
00:24 thd      sorry chris russ si: I had used syntax that was not parsed correctly
00:20 thd      the one running #koha?
00:19 thd      russ si: do you know the IRC system?
00:18 Jo       testing your bug fix..
00:18 Jo       Mason: can you come to hlt
00:18 thd      or anyone from Katipo who knows the IRC system
00:17 thd      chris: are you there?
00:17 thd      chris: I have found a problem on #koha
22:45 thd      kados: you should try to keep the generally useful things on the open channel as I just did for logbbot
22:44 thd      good evening kados
22:44 kados    ciao
22:43 kados    ok ... I've really got to go now
22:43 kados    as we may discuss money things :-)
22:43 kados    but it will probably be a pmesg
22:43 kados    undetermined
22:43 thd      ?
22:43 thd      circa what time if I rise :)
22:42 kados    I'll discuss this with paul tomorrow
22:42 thd      kados: OK
22:42 kados    thanks for your explainations thd
22:42 kados    I've got to head out
22:41 thd      kados: A page refresh is also required and absent to change labels after reordering subfields.
22:40 thd      kados: I do not know what extra state information would be needed to preserve tab location in JavaScript.  I have never looked at the record editor code.
22:38 thd      kados: This is usually manged with internal anchors while the page refreshes.
22:37 thd      kados: If I add a second 650 I am thrown back to the beginning of tab 0.
22:36 thd      kados: Another great inefficiency I have seen with the record editor is that context is not preserved when adding repeated fields.
22:34 thd      kados: As we discussed before, the current option is only to hide them where they cannot be recalled without changing the framework rather than as the need arises for the material being catalogued.
22:32 thd      kados: No one will be happy with a default framework that preserves all data but always has uncommonly needed fields and subfields in the way.
22:31 kados    right, that woudl be nice
22:30 thd      kados: This would be for the uncommonly used but occasionally needed fields and subfields.
22:29 thd      kados: Another framework column would also be good for collapse or hide in JavaScript editor unless explicitly opened or expanded.
22:26 thd      that would at least cover the explicit case if it works.
22:25 thd      s/value/label/
22:25 thd      kados: I will definitely experiment with a blank OPAC value for the subfields labelled non-public.
22:25 kados    thd: if you write a brief description of the feature and what indicators use it i will gladly code it
22:24 kados    thd: we need to account for that I agree
22:23 thd      kados: That does not cover the equally common case where the indicator is supposed to be read to determine privacy.
22:22 thd      kados: The possibility that a blank value for the OPAC label hiding the content is interesting.
22:20 thd      kados: But that information can never be entered in the record editor in the first place or changed for existing records if the subfield is hidden.
22:19 thd      kados: Anonymous donor may stop giving if his name appears in the OPAC as one example of the consequence.
22:18 kados    I think if you leave out the OPAC description for a given subfield it will not display but I haven't tested that theory
22:17 thd      kados: another problem is the lack of any way to separate OPAC from patron visibility.  There are fields and subfields which are private or non-public either absolutely or if an indicator is set.
22:16 thd      kados: Especially as until something is added to support it nothing would break.
22:16 thd      kados: new column is much less time I believe.
22:15 kados    thd: maybe ... I will bring it up to paul tomorrow
22:15 kados    thd: it would not take much time to add that
22:15 thd      kados: Adding a new column and modifying code to support it is also much less coding than managing than whatever would be needed to extend the original column.
22:15 kados    thd: there could easily be a tag 11 for the record editor
22:15 kados    thd: the goal is compliance, not usability for 2.2.6
22:14 kados    thd: i think it's ok if they don't appear in the logical place
22:13 thd      kados: and their is not even a tab 10 for the record editor.  Tab 10 is for items.
22:12 thd      kados: If I am not mistaken tab assignment sets order of appearance even in the OPAC MARC view.
22:11 thd      kados: Then they would not appear in the correct logical place in relation to the rest of the record in either the record editor or the OPAC.
22:10 kados    for obsolete fields
22:10 kados    we could create a tab '11'
22:10 thd      kados: No one will want those in the way if empty but everyone will want to see them when editing old records if they have content.
22:08 thd      kados: I am also concerned with the record editor being filled with obsolete fields and subfields.
22:07 kados    thd: it should automatically hide if empty in the record display
22:06 thd      kados: The problem is that -0 is the same number as 0 for obsolete fields/subfields that should appear in tab 0.
22:05 thd      kados: Because we have no column to support hide if empty because this field/subfield is obsolete but show if data present.
22:04 kados    why can't we just extend it as you propose?
22:04 kados    why do we need another colum?
22:03 thd      kados: I do like paul's frameworks very much.  I see no reason to abandon them for 3.0.  They might be extended or transformed.
22:01 thd      kados: Therefore another column is required.
22:01 thd      kados: I thought of changing behaviour by extending the value range so that obsolete would be shown only if present where -7 is obsolete for tab 7 but then -0 for tab 0 is not a numeral.
21:58 thd      kados: -1 preserves content but hides, 0-9 are tabs, and 10 is the items tab.
21:57 thd      kados: The values for subfield management are -1 - 10.
21:56 thd      kados: I do have an experiment to conduct with the hide option but that certainly does not help visibility..
21:55 thd      kados: But this is a problem now because the same column that is used to place the subfields into the correct tab for viewing in the right sequence is also the same one for setting them to not viewable.
21:54 kados    and it's not worth spending too much energy patching a sinking ship :-)
21:54 kados    because the current design is deficient
21:54 kados    I'm not as concerned about usability
21:53 kados    my goal with 2.2.6 is to be MARC compliant
21:53 kados    so when we're ready to spec that out we'll definitely discuss it with you
21:53 thd      kados: Although, I suspect that in the real world at least some obsolete subfields do not have small use.
21:53 kados    paul and I will be working on a new XUL-based design
21:53 kados    but I think that's a version 3.0 discussion
21:52 kados    good point
21:52 thd      kados: No one wants their record editor forms supplying them with many obsolete fields and subfields merely to support the small but valuable set of records that use obsolete fields.
21:51 kados    that's true
21:50 thd      kados: However, the options to support visibility of content are very limited in the Koha frameworks.
21:49 thd      kados: so my first purpose with the default frameworks has been to ensure that users do not loose data that they already have.
21:48 thd      kados:  There tends to be a correlation between libraries with money and libraries with the oldest MARC records but there is a big gap where records may have been copy catalogued by poor libraries from rich libraries with old records and then never updated at the poor libraries.
21:46 thd      kados: However, some obsolete fields were not even moved but simply abandoned with changes in AACR.  Those fields still have data of value if they are populated.
21:44 thd      kados: Libraries who cared and had money sent their records off for conversion to the newer format.
21:43 thd      kados: changes over time have moved the correct place to encode data from one place to another.
21:42 thd      kados: a modest code change in a few places would allow legacy fields and subfields which should no longer be used to create current records but still bring them up in the correct place if filled with legacy data.
21:40 kados    could you expand on what those are?
21:39 thd      kados: a new column is needed for obsolete fields and subfields
21:39 kados    what's that?
21:39 thd      kados: there is something that ought to be changed now for the frameworks though.
21:37 thd      kados: more fine grained aspects for individual indicator and fixed field positions
21:36 thd      kados: mandatory needs gradations at some point.
21:35 thd      kados: so If incomplete records were submitted there should be a warning to accept an incomplete record instead of refusal, although I do not remember what the message is now when leaving out something mandatory.
21:13 thd      kados: signify when your are off phone he said as he stepped out of the room for a moment.
21:12 thd      kados: It should also be possible to create incomplete records that require further editing.
21:11 kados    (phone call)
21:11 kados    what about the 'mandatory' flag?
21:10 thd      kados: Also, as you correctly point out it would be helpful to add a check for 6XX as good to have even if not mandatory under some LC standard.
21:09 thd      kados: However, issues outside of fill some 1XX may be more likely missed accidentally.
21:08 thd      kados: So that some 1XX is always filled.  Any cataloguer worth his pay understands that.
21:07 thd      kados: there is no way to express mandatory if applicable.
21:06 thd      so the bibliographic framework design does not have a problem but it does have inadequacies for expressing what is mandatory.
20:19 kados    thd: just sent you a private message ... could you see it?
20:19 kados    nope :-)
20:18 thd      kados: Or me blocked :)
20:18 kados    :-)
20:18 kados    nope
20:18 thd      kados: Do you have private messages blocked?
20:18 kados    nope
20:18 thd      kados: have you changed your IRC client configuration?
20:18 kados    thd: no
20:17 thd      kados: Are you connecting from an unusual place?
20:17 kados    thd: no ... strangely
20:16 thd      kados: did you see my messages now?
20:10 kados    thd: time limitation factor?
20:09 kados    thd: I didn't see it
20:07 thd      kados: We do not have to discuss the possibility at this moment but there is a time limitation factor.
20:05 thd      kados: Did you see my private messages from an hour and a half ago?
20:04 thd      kados: a rel_2_2 update must have changed it unless my dump was constrained for compatibility with multiple versions of MySQL.
20:02 thd      kados: varchar was the original when I had started working on it.
20:01 kados    thd: thanks for the command :-)
20:01 kados    I'll ask paul whether text or varchar would be better there
20:00 thd      kados: here is the ALTER command:  ALTER TABLE `marc_subfield_structure` CHANGE `seealso` `seealso` VARCHAR( 2047 ) NULL DEFAULT NULL;
19:58 kados    dunno
19:57 thd      kados: it has been changed to type text in rel_2_2.  What are the limitations on text?
19:52 thd      kados: `marc_subfield_structure`(`seealso` varchar(2047) default NULL ); is in there but that is not the code you would want ot commit.
19:49 kados    and I'll commit it to rel_2_2
19:49 kados    tell me what you have in your SQL file
19:49 kados    right
19:49 thd      kados: I could find the confirmed exact answer to your question in a minute but I did it differently,
19:47 thd      kados: I have been dro[pping the table and recreating it from an SQL file filled with insert statements.
19:46 thd      ALTER `marc_subfield_structure.seealso` VARCHAR(2047);  or something like that
19:46 kados    thd: don't you have it in your mysql client history?
19:45 kados    :-)
19:45 thd      kados tests my instant SQL  coding
19:44 kados    thd: what was involved in fixing it ... do you have the SQL?
19:44 kados    right
19:44 thd      kados: of course I have not fixed it at LibLime because I do not have that level of access.
19:43 kados    thd: I'll bring that up to paul as well tomorrow
19:43 thd      kados: Yes
19:43 kados    thd: do we need to increase the size of that field?
19:43 thd      kados: I have fixed it.
19:43 kados    thd: so the 255 byte limit for the 'search also' feature is a problem, eh?
19:42 kados    thd: sorry ... got disconnected
19:37 thd      kados: are you still there?
19:34 thd      kados: That is needed to support seealso searching of all relevant subfields from all related fields.
19:32 thd      kados: The completed default MARC 21 bibliographic framework will increase the size from 255 to marc_subfield_structure.seealso VARCHAR(2047).
19:28 thd      kados: the default bibliographic framework already had 100q.  I added whatever I could within 255 bytes to the see also for 100 $a in the default MARC bibliographic framework.
19:26 thd      kados: So I added 100d which had been missing from the see also for 100 $a in the default bibliographic framework.
19:24 thd      kados: All I did was add all the author subfields contained in existing 100 authority records.
19:22 thd      kados: I had meant to make the change while you were still awake but was then distracted when I realised that you may be reading too much from a non-working bulkauthimport.pl design.
19:21 kados    thd: I did notice that though I'm not sure what you did ... could you expand?
19:20 thd      kados: I fixed authorities author searching from the LibLime demo OPAC for the advanced search pop-up last night.   Maybe you missed my announcement in the log.
19:18 thd      kados: ISBD configuration should inform the system only which fields and subfields to return at what points as well as what joining punctuation to use.  The order of repeated fields and any specified intra field subfields should be whatever order appears in the record while now it is the order that they appear in the ISBD configuration specified.
19:14 thd      kados: In either case the Koha ISBD design needs to change to read field and subfield order from the record rather than from the supplied configuration.
19:11 thd      kados: you are missing the field separator from the code that you had used
19:09 kados    I haven't looked at it
19:09 kados    it's possible the ISBDdetail code works better than the ISBD code that was included in the authorities display
19:09 thd      kados: However it does have repeated subjects correct.
19:08 kados    right
19:08 thd      Which is unavoidable in the current Koha ISBD design.
19:06 thd      kados: This record has multiple publishers in 260 $a $b $a $b $c repented as 260 $a $a $b $b $c.
19:04 thd      kados: you can see both the success and the failure of the Koha ISBD configuration in this record http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-ISBDdetail.pl?bib=109 .
19:01 kados    hdl: try to add the serial again please
19:01 kados    hdl: I deleted statecollection.pl/tmpl and grabbed latest cvs copies
18:59 hdl      The first version I commited had to be worked upon.
18:58 hdl      kados : I know I first had this error when I first commited. But should have been fixed for more than one week now.
18:57 thd      kados: Your ISBD system preference is empty.  I will fill it
18:50 hdl      thd: we are both on latest rel_2_2
18:49 kados    hdl: i will delete and reload from cvs
18:49 kados    hdl: in fact, they are stock cvs
18:49 thd      hdl: Does it work with the latest rel_2_2 or are you and paul using the 2.2.5 release?
18:49 hdl      henridamien at koha-fr dot org
18:49 kados    sure
18:49 hdl      would you send me your statecollection.pl and statecollection.tmpl ?
18:48 hdl      it works.
18:48 hdl      and paul has the same behavior as I.
18:47 kados    hdl: strange then
18:47 hdl      I work on english templates.
18:47 thd      kados: yes just look at any record with multiple repeated subject fields using the ISBD configuration that I supplied to you
18:46 kados    hdl: could french templates be different than english templates?
18:46 kados    thd: do you have an example of the previous one working?
18:45 thd      kados: However, 260 $a $b  $a $b comes out as 260 $a $a $b $b
18:45 kados    hdl: (but no changes were listed)
18:45 kados    hdl: (I updated all templates in default/en)
18:45 kados    hdl: try now
18:44 kados    hdl: I'll check
18:44 kados    thd: you'll have to show me how
18:44 thd      kados: so you can make 400 $a $d 400 $a $d work
18:44 hdl      Are your templates up to date ?
18:43 hdl      Strange.
18:43 kados    thd: I don't think it can represent repeated tags acceptably either
18:43 kados    thd: right
18:42 kados    [Mon Mar 06 13:39:36 2006] [error] [client] Premature end of script headers: statecollection.pl, referer: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull-home.pl
18:42 thd      kados: Orderliness is not read from the record in the existing Koha ISBD model it is instructed in the Koha ISBD configuration supplied.
18:42 kados    [Mon Mar 06 13:39:36 2006] [error] [client]  at /var/www/liblime.com/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/bull/statecollection.pl line 160, referer: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull-home.pl
18:42 kados    hdl: [Mon Mar 06 13:39:36 2006] [error] [client] HTML::Template->output() : fatal error in loop output : HTML::Template::param() : attempt to set parameter 'itemlocationloop' with a scalar - parameter is not a TMPL_VAR! at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/HTML/Template.pm line 2963, referer: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull-home.pl
18:42 hdl      I tried Iowa journal.
18:42 kados    hdl: when did you get it?
18:42 hdl      yes.
18:42 kados    hdl: I just attempted and it seems to have worked
18:42 kados    hdl: did you get an internal server error?
18:41 hdl      internal server error?
18:41 thd      kados: The existing Koha ISBD model can represent repeated fields acceptably but has a problem with repeated subfields within the field where the repeated subfields are not consecutive.
18:40 kados    try 'american' with itemtype magazine
18:40 kados    any search for 'magazine'
18:40 hdl      can you give the name of the serials ?
18:39 kados    hdl: use 9903 as bib record (magazine)
18:38 kados    supplier 1 is EBSCO
18:38 kados    hdl: try with default templates
18:38 hdl      there are.
18:38 kados    hdl: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-add.pl
18:38 hdl      SURE!!!!
18:37 kados    hdl: (btw: are there any changes to make to a template to support serials itemization?)
18:37 kados    hdl: I tested with default templates even
18:36 kados    and the errors are in the log as i posted to the bug report
18:36 kados    adding any serial fails
18:36 kados    you can try it on liblime demo
18:35 kados    right ...
18:35 hdl      can you give me details for you bug #10008 paul and I couldnot see it happen.
18:35 kados    http://www.loc.gov/marc/uma/index.html
18:35 kados    http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/Auth0001.htm
18:35 kados    hdl: the best resources are the following (for marc21)
18:35 kados    hdl: so you can see what I did
18:34 kados    hdl: I committed my changes
18:34 kados    thd: can you expand on what you said earlier about ISBD?
18:34 hdl      kados : i will have to work hard on authority soon.
18:33 kados    thd: I'll add that to my list of questions for him tomorrow
18:33 kados    thd: I'm guessing paul can help us to distribute it in the best way
18:33 kados    thd: good news about the framework
18:32 kados    thd: if you need to discuss anything with me
18:32 kados    thd: I'm back now
18:32 kados    thd: nice :-)
18:32 thd      kados: I have been so careful that I have even found a typo in an official MARC 21 document.
18:17 thd      In summary still a few more days required.
18:16 thd      s/corrections/careful verification/
18:15 thd      s/corrections/careful proofreading/
18:15 kados    thd: give me just a sec and I"ll be with you
18:15 kados    thd: excellent
18:14 thd      kados: I worked on the MARC 21 default framework all day yesterday and will be done after another day except for corrections and a proper import script.
18:12 thd      kados: There is much to discuss.
18:12 pierrick thanks Joshua
18:10 chris    thanks kados
18:10 kados    I'll post a summary later today
18:10 thd      pierrick: If you have good sound and tolerable video it can be acceptable.  Poor sound is bad.
18:10 hdl      Thx
18:10 hdl      Nope.
18:10 kados    k ... meeting's closed then ... thanks everyone!
18:10 chris    yes, its hard work
18:10 hdl      And transcription is a real job.
18:09 chris    not from me
18:09 kados    anything else to discuss?
18:09 pierrick making great quality video seems to be quite complicated, not so sure it will be possible
18:08 hdl      Stupid of me.
18:08 hdl      you're right pierrick....
18:07 hdl      Sorry EMP.
18:07 pierrick Nantes ??? Paris, you mean
18:07 hdl      I shall remind paul.
18:06 hdl      Ecole des Mines de Nantes (User's conf)
18:06 thd      Someone needs to know how to make the equipment work.  Good equipment run by an unprofessional user might as well be poor equipment.
18:06 pierrick EMN?
18:06 chris    having the transcriptions of the talks are valuable
18:06 pierrick MN ?
18:06 hdl      If EMN is involved, thay can have a good auditorium room.
18:06 chris    we should get people to transcribe also
18:05 thd      However, someone needs to have the right well tested equipment.  Poor quality sound is poor publicity.
18:05 chris    should be done soonish
18:05 kados    sweet
18:05 chris    we are working on getting a US based mirror for koha.org
18:05 hdl      :D
18:05 chris    or both :)
18:05 chris    yep
18:04 hdl      or koha.org ?
18:04 hdl      maybe on koha-fr.org
18:04 kados    thd: good idea
18:03 thd      pierrick: A video archive should be posted somewhere when it is all done unless it is too poorly organised.  It ought to be an enduring archive of good publicity.
18:03 chris    :)
18:03 kados    obvoiusly we need to start promoting it as soon as possible
18:03 kados    do we need to talk about anything else related to the con?
18:02 kados    plus some time off inbetween
18:02 kados    well ... 11 :-)
18:02 kados    so basically about 10 days
18:02 pierrick video ? we didn't speak about it? It's a good idea. I'll ask my boss.
18:01 thd      Will there be a video archive?
18:01 kados    heh
18:01 pierrick and someone will translate to french
18:00 pierrick Joshua will speak english on day 2
18:00 hdl      Since we are mostly english speaking persons.
18:00 hdl      But not for dev conf.
18:00 hdl      For users' conf, will be needed.
17:59 thd      spoken French, I would have no chance
17:59 hdl      :)
17:58 chris    i plan to pay pierrick or hdl or paul with chocolate to sit next to me and translate :-)
17:57 chris    cool pierrick
17:57 chris    may 2 and 3 in paris
17:56 pierrick INEO plans to call some french libraries for the first day presentation
17:56 chris    may 8-12 developer week in marseille
17:56 hdl      They could then gather and share experiences.
17:56 chris    may 4-7 free time (explore paris)
17:56 chris    may 3 - koha users - for existing koha users
17:56 chris    may 2 general koha presentation, everyone interested come along
17:55 chris    so
17:55 hdl      And 4 days for developers in Marseille
17:55 hdl      2 days with users
17:55 russ     sorry i have another meeting, i must go, catch you all later
17:55 hdl      1 day gl presentation
17:54 pierrick (sorry HDL, go on)
17:54 pierrick 1 day of general presentation
17:54 hdl      yes
17:54 kados    hdl: can you?
17:54 kados    so maybe hdl should summarize what our plans are thusfar :-)
17:54 chris    we have some dates
17:54 russ     cos we really need to get something out to all the lists and the site soon
17:54 kados    right
17:54 hdl      and Marseille
17:54 russ     i'll email paul again
17:54 kados    Paris in fact
17:53 pierrick Koha Con(ference)
17:53 kados    thd: we're organizing a Koha Conference to be held in France in May
17:53 thd      what is Koha Con?
17:53 russ     i had hoped he would be here today
17:53 kados    chris: ?
17:53 russ     i have some dates from Paul
17:53 russ     Koha Con - um not really :-)
17:52 kados    russ: can you summarize where we're at with that?
17:52 russ     i have some urls on a scrap of paper that i will dig out when i see the post on the list
17:52 kados    last item on the agenda is the Koha Con
17:52 kados    cool
17:52 russ     no i think that covers it for me
17:52 kados    anything else to discuss on that topic?
17:51 kados    sounds good
17:51 chris    so lets start a discussion on what, on the list and see if some nice goals coalesce
17:50 chris    i think what has to be decided first, and then where after
17:50 thd      There are different costs and liability issues for various jurisdictions
17:50 russ     chris: i agree
17:50 russ     oops
17:50 russ     chris : me
17:49 russ     know you were going to ask that
17:49 chris    i think thats best discussed on the devel list
17:49 russ     before we start down the process of creating an entity
17:49 russ     lets find out if they are even remotley aligned
17:49 kados    cool ... got urls?
17:49 russ     kados: exactley
17:49 russ     who have published their cert of incporp
17:49 kados    doesn't need to be _too_ specific, though I think it would be a good exercise to put down in writing our goals
17:49 russ     i found an example of another software project
17:48 kados    "to promote the Koha integrated Library system"
17:48 kados    something like:
17:48 kados    in the US it's usually just a two-three sentence mission statement
17:48 russ     and then decide where
17:48 kados    yep
17:48 russ     i think we need to work on that first
17:48 russ     or a definition of purpose
17:47 russ     but with both you need a constitution
17:47 russ     i have looked a little bit at us, but mainly nz not for profit setups
17:47 russ     and the thing is that you need to have a clear idea of what you want to do
17:47 kados    cool ... what'd you find out?
17:47 russ     well i have been looking into that
17:47 kados    so the first step is to get an org going
17:46 kados    good point
17:46 chris    i dont think we want/need to do everything at once
17:46 chris    2 slowly evolve/expand organisations role
17:46 chris    1 get some kinda not for profit organisation
17:45 thd      Therefore rach has a small kaitiaki assistant :)
17:45 chris    its a process
17:45 chris    the way i see it
17:45 kados    right
17:45 chris    and a company to look after .. its a pretty unrealistic thought that she can devote the time necessary to the role
17:44 chris    technically she is, but with a hmm 6 week old baby
17:44 chris    a not for profit allows for funding to be sought to remunerate people
17:44 thd      I thought rach was kaitiaki currently
17:44 kados    there's a ton of press from that time period
17:44 kados    pate did an excellent job while we were transitioning from 1.2 to 2.0
17:43 russ     it also takes a special kind of person
17:43 kados    yep
17:43 chris    and it takes a huge amount of work
17:43 chris    it has always been a volunteer role
17:43 chris    they are the central point of contact .. overall guidance, press, etc
17:42 thd      chris what has the kaitiaki done in the past?
17:41 chris    guardian
17:41 thd      what is the meaning of kaitaiki?
17:40 chris    which is currently not being done
17:40 chris    is fulfilling the kaitiaki role
17:40 chris    what i see the foundation doing
17:40 thd      s/righting/writing/
17:39 thd      russ: claim is not about righting it is about administering the license
17:39 chris    im sure there is some skemotah in there too
17:39 kados    thd: Amazon.pm is copyright LibLime IIRC
17:39 russ     we wouldn't lay claim to writing all the code
17:39 chris    plus i dont even want to start on the whole gpl v3
17:39 thd      chris: which code is that?
17:38 chris    there is some code copyright to others
17:38 hdl      chris : yes, but developers can be at risk.
17:38 chris    no its not
17:38 thd      chris: now the community is small and all assignment is to Katipo so only one entity can upgrade to GPL V3
17:38 kados    we had different assumptions then :-)
17:38 kados    ahh :-)
17:38 chris    koha
17:38 chris    the project
17:38 kados    safer for who?
17:38 chris    than having one copyright holder
17:37 chris    is safer
17:37 chris    so having more copyright holders
17:37 thd      chris: yes that is the virtue of assignment
17:37 chris    yes, but in order to change the license you must get agreement of all the copyright holders
17:37 kados    chris: because any legal disputs over patents then have to be filed against the corp and not the individual
17:37 thd      s/assignment/copyright assignment/
17:36 kados    chris: I disagree, though I'm not a lawyer ... I think the fsf always recommends turning over the copyright of a GPL work to them
17:36 chris    i have no plans to upgrade the license
17:36 thd      chris: assignment is an absolute requirement to upgrade the license
17:36 hdl      :D
17:36 hdl      India ?
17:36 russ     i think the details need to be worked on and discussed
17:35 thd      :)
17:35 thd      kados: Then it should be based or have qualified offices in every country where grant money is available but no country with software idea patents.
17:35 chris    i think its safer/good for developers own copyrights
17:35 russ     to me the purpose of the non profit discussion at this stage is to ensure that the project carries on
17:35 chris    2. im not sure about
17:35 kados    (against suits, etc.)
17:34 kados    3. it will provide a measure of protection for companies selling services on Koha
17:34 kados    )
17:34 kados    (think 'Apache foundation'
17:34 kados    2. the non-profit will own the Koha brand as well as copyrights on the code
17:34 kados    work even
17:34 kados    1. we can go after grants for development works
17:33 kados    in detail
17:33 thd      kados: please explain the basic conception behind the non-profit.
17:33 kados    thd: several purposes that we can discuss after the meeting
17:33 thd      kados: what purpose does the the non-profit have?
17:33 russ     :-)
17:33 kados    so ... now I have :-)
17:32 kados    07:50 < kados> paul: OK ... I will mention this at the meeting
17:32 kados    07:46 < paul> I suspect it would be easier to do something in US and "localize" it in France, than the opposite.
17:32 russ     i concur :-)
17:32 kados    07:45 < paul> that must be handled carefully, with an international lawyer. I asked a french from mozilla fundation (Tristan Nitot), but didn't get any answer yet
17:32 kados    07:44 < paul> my conclusion : it's a very very hard question.
17:32 kados    07:43 < kados> paul: (since you will not be attending the meeting tonight ... do you have any results from your queries into where the non-profit should be located: france, us, or elsewhere?)
17:32 kados    I'll paste in the conversation
17:31 kados    I spoke to paul about the non-profit briefly this morning
17:31 pierrick thank you thd for asking a brief explanation :-)
17:30 thd      kados: yes please do as I have no idea what that is even
17:30 kados    thd: lets move on to discuss the Koha non-profit
17:30 thd      kados: you should check my comprehensive MARC 21 ISBD system preference to see how it is done
17:30 kados    thd: actually ... lets postpone that until after the mtg
17:29 kados    thd: please explain
17:29 thd      kados: you are a little mistaken about the hierarchy issue in Koha ISBD
17:29 kados    thd: though as we've discussed, the behavior after selection is not as expected
17:28 kados    thd: I think it's working now for all but author searches
17:28 kados    $400 $a $b $400 $a $b was represented as $400 $a $a $b $b
17:28 thd      hdl: the OPAC advanced search pop-up lacks template corrections
17:27 kados    the problem with the old ISBD style of building the summary was that it could not represent the true hierarchy of the record
17:27 thd      hdl: what you may see has not been corrected for all template parts
17:26 kados    for one, the 'from source'
17:26 kados    there are several other types I'd like to add to the summary
17:26 kados    so it's quite easy in fact to categorize the hierarchy correctly for display
17:26 kados    all see and see also are in 4XX and 5XX respectively
17:25 thd      There is much less divergence than with the bibliographic standards except for subject subdivisions which are much more troublesome in MARC 21
17:25 kados    in MARC21 all authorized headings are in the 1XX field
17:25 hdl      If ppl wil be able to have different summary for 1 auth type or what use we could do for different summary (headings)
17:24 kados    hdl: I'm listening
17:24 thd      UNIMARC and MARC 21 authorities are very similar
17:24 hdl      I wonder
17:23 kados    I think we can move on ... unless anyone has something to add to the auth discussion
17:23 thd      s/read authorities/read authorities in Koha/
17:22 kados    I plan to talk at detail tomorrow with paul about some other ideas we have
17:22 kados    though we also hacked on the authorites editor as well as the framework
17:22 kados    mainly they were display issues
17:21 kados    will give you a good feel for what the modifications we made will allow
17:21 thd      kados: If you read a little French then you can read authorities :)
17:21 kados    a NAME search on 'Lewis' or Twain
17:21 kados    there is now an authorities search in the OPAC
17:21 kados    http://opac.liblime.com
17:21 thd      kados: just that most of what I saw was in a compressed time a few months ago
17:20 kados    first let me show off what thd and I did
17:20 kados    thd: great!
17:20 thd      kados: I understand authorities fairly deeply
17:20 kados    paul's not here so I think we'll have to skip authorities discussion in detail
17:19 kados    ok then we can move on eh?
17:19 kados    woot :-)
17:19 chris    me
17:19 kados    for perl-zoom?
17:19 kados    so ... who's gonna work on that task list?
17:19 kados    right
17:18 chris    this isnt upgrading from 2.2 to 3.0 .. its slapping zebra into 2.2 .. but yes that will be needed in the future thd
17:18 thd      code needs to change to preserve holdings ID from rel_2_2 to 3.0
17:18 chris    in zebra, then zebra has to know what the currentbranch is
17:18 kados    to change holdingbranch?
17:17 chris    if we are searching the branch location
17:17 chris    yes
17:17 kados    it does?
17:17 chris    returns has to update zebra
17:17 chris    returns .. if we search over branch by zebra
17:17 kados    ok ... sounds reasonable
17:16 chris    3.0 will
17:16 kados    zebra's got a much better system for handling stop words that we should definitely use
17:16 chris    they should be stripped before the search is called
17:16 chris    stop words should just keep working
17:16 kados    for searching
17:16 thd      upgrading is a problem for holdings
17:16 kados    also, stopwords
17:15 chris    the only thing i can think of
17:15 kados    order by
17:15 pierrick I don't
17:15 kados    anyone think of anything else?
17:15 chris    cant see why they wouldnt
17:15 chris    which would be good
17:14 chris    if rebuild_zebra works, then that will allow us to upgrade
17:14 chris    no
17:14 kados    bulkmarcimport and rebuild_zebra been tested with the plugin?
17:14 kados    what else?
17:14 kados    k ... two more todos then
17:14 chris    dunno havent tested
17:14 kados    and edits?
17:14 kados    how about deletions?
17:14 chris    yep
17:14 kados    and items as well ...
17:14 chris    yep
17:13 kados    adding biblios works eh?
17:13 chris    yeah
17:13 kados    series title, format, location, barcode, call #, publisher, published between dates
17:13 kados    sweet
17:13 chris    its very easy
17:13 chris    then another elsif in SearchMarc.pm
17:12 chris    basically we just have to add more data to collection.abs and pqf.properties
17:12 kados    so that's a todo
17:12 chris    itemtype will when we add it to our collection.abs and pqf.properties
17:12 chris    isbn
17:12 kados    any others?
17:12 kados    author, title, subject I think
17:11 kados    so chris, what search points are working now?
17:11 kados    pierrick: yep, installation's never been easy in Koha
17:11 kados    thd: one of my clients who sponsored perl-zoom development
17:11 pierrick I mean libyaz/yaz/ZOOM/zebra
17:10 thd      kados: What is meadville?
17:10 chris    theres still bunches of bugs that need to be ironed out
17:10 pierrick personnaly, HEAD installation was not so easy, mainly due to environnement issues
17:10 kados    i forwarded the description email to meadville so they should start testing soon
17:09 chris    ie, it works fine if you install clean, make the db changes and then load your data in
17:09 kados    right ... so maybe a shell script or two to help with that
17:09 chris    well, currently there is no easy way to upgrade from a 2.2 install
17:09 kados    hmmm
17:09 chris    so whats left to be done?
17:08 chris    there is no added functionality, BUT searches are now done on zebra
17:07 chris    there is more work to be done, and some more testing ... but its all work useful for 3.0 also
17:06 kados    (I wrote a mail to koha-devel about how to get the plugin working but it hasn't arrived yet)
17:06 chris    with a few database changes, and copying some scripts and some modules from HEAD to a 2.2.5 koha install, you can get zebra playing nice with 2.2
17:06 chris    ok
17:05 kados    chris: want to summarize where we're at with the plugin?
17:05 kados    so perl-zoom integration
17:05 kados    I'll take that as a no
17:04 pierrick (I'm CVS expert, but not Koha yet)
17:04 thd      Koha is intuitive only cvs is not
17:04 kados    anything to add before we start taking about perl-zoom?
17:04 kados    http://tinyurl.com/ztkar
17:04 kados    here's our mtg agenda:
17:03 russ     most excellent, welcome aboard pierrick
17:03 chris    :-)
17:03 pierrick (bwouhaha)
17:03 kados    he's a fast learner apparantly :-)
17:03 kados    pierrick did his first commit today
17:03 kados    pierrick even :-)
17:03 pierrick thank you Joshua
17:03 kados    welcome to pierick!
17:03 kados    so first things first
17:02 kados    paul's not going to make it
17:02 pierrick I'm her
17:02 thd      s/her/here/
17:02 thd      still her
17:01 kados    who's here?
17:01 kados    lets get our mtg started ... so first ... roll call
17:01 kados    ok ... it's 20:00 GMT
17:01 hdl      ok.
17:01 kados    if not let me know
17:01 kados    yep, that should do it
17:01 kados    zebrasrv localhost:2100
17:01 kados    zebraidx commit
17:00 kados    zebraidx create kohadb
17:00 kados    hdl: so the steps are:
17:00 hdl      is that all ?
17:00 kados    hdl: zebraidx commit
17:00 hdl      ow do you run a commit ?
17:00 kados    AGENDA: http://tinyurl.com/ztkar
16:59 kados    it was driving me batty :-)
16:59 kados    yea ... quite a relief when i figured it out
16:59 chris    cool, its good that we know what it is now
16:59 kados    and that seemed to be the only solution
16:59 kados    I ran into the same prob with setting up owen's test site
16:59 thd      kados: I was forgetting that this was almost a JavaScritp template :)
16:59 chris    ill let you answer hdl on the list then
16:58 chris    ahh
16:58 kados    you have to run a 'commit' after you create a new db
16:58 chris    ahh
16:58 chris    joshua and I were having this problem
16:58 kados    I suspect it's shdow registers
16:58 kados    I think I know the problem
16:58 kados    actually chris ...
16:58 chris    for your zebra problem .. how did you create your kohazebra db ?
16:58 kados    thd: and we need some javascript for reordering of subfields within a tag too
16:57 kados    thd: we just need some javascript to insert a new subfield below the existing one
16:57 chris    just quickly before our meeting hdl
16:57 kados    hi hdl
16:57 thd      kados: So the template work to support the underlying remains?
16:57 chris    hi hdl
16:57 hdl      hi
16:57 kados    thd: but the actual editor hasn't been modified to support it
16:56 kados    thd: the underlying marc structure and routines support it now
16:56 thd      kados: Have you fixed original cataloguing subfield repeatability in the biblo record editor some where?
16:52 kados    in the next ten minutes or so
16:52 kados    if anyone has stuff to add, please do
16:51 kados    MEETING AGENDA: http://tinyurl.com/ztkar
16:51 chris    but i couldnt see any way to do it
16:51 kados    well ... not a big deal really
16:51 chris    ill have to go read hybrid-ircd docs more
16:51 kados    I'm pretty sure anyway ...
16:50 kados    in Unreal ircd you can add channel opers too
16:50 chris    irc operators can ban, gline etc .. but they dont have any special rights in a channel
16:50 chris    you can add irc operators .. but not channel operators
16:49 kados    ahh
16:49 kados    and reload the config without killing everyone
16:49 chris    doestn work that way
16:49 chris    no
16:49 kados    if so, you should be able to manually add operators
16:49 chris    hybrid-ircd
16:49 kados    chris: ircd?
16:48 kados    chris: is this running on a katipo box though?
16:48 thd      kados: I have his address if you still need it
16:48 kados    i get it now ... he was first on
16:48 kados    isn't this a katipo box?
16:47 kados    what!
16:47 mason    :)
16:47 russ     pate-lurk is the only one who does
16:47 chris    only pat can
16:47 kados    chris: so can't change the topic
16:47 kados    chris: I don't have oper privs
16:47 kados    chris: you here?
15:28 thd      I will find you tomorrow paul_away
15:21 thd      paul: are you there?
13:10 paul     (and he is doing a pretty good job it seems !)
13:10 paul     lol
13:09 owen     He's probably out conquering North America in the name of Liblime :)
13:09 paul     [16:52:19] <kados> as I have several appointments today
13:09 paul     [16:52:09] <kados> now ... unfortunately I must go :/
13:08 paul     hello owen. kados leaves 10mn ago.
13:07 pierrick OK
13:06 paul     borrowers
13:06 pierrick where are stored members in DB ? I see table "users" was dropped by updatedatabase
12:59 hdl      owen : can you answer ?
12:57 hdl      And it seems thet all my files were committed.
12:57 hdl      kados : I donot have the same problem. Is it with npl templates ?
12:53 paul     kados : yep, i'll be here tomorrow
12:53 kados    pierrick++
12:53 pierrick see you tonight
12:53 kados    bye all
12:52 kados    I would like to discuss authorites and serials in further detail
12:52 hdl      yes.
12:52 kados    paul: hdl: will you be around tomorrow?
12:52 kados    as I have several appointments today
12:52 kados    now ... unfortunately I must go :/
12:51 kados    paul: OK ... I will mention this at the meeting
12:51 kados    hdl: maybe forgot a commit?
12:50 hdl      Or have I forgotten a commit ?
12:49 hdl      Did you change something ?
12:49 hdl      kados : seems it work for me.
12:48 paul     (I know, but I tried ;-) )
12:47 paul     I suspect it would be easier to do something in US and "localize" it in France, than the opposite.
12:47 pierrick Tristan is a very busy person
12:47 paul     that must be handled carefully, with an international lawyer. I asked a french from mozilla fundation (Tristan Nitot), but didn't get any answer yet
12:46 pierrick I can't drink so much ! (I don't drink alcohol at all in reality)
12:46 paul     for a large commit
12:46 kados    wow very large champagne :-)
12:46 paul     my conclusion : it's a very very hard question.
12:45 kados    hehe
12:45 paul     http://www.box-evenement.com/site/photos_grandes_tailles/visuel/bouteille_champagne.jpg
12:45 kados    paul: (since you will not be attending the meeting tonight ... do you have any results from your queries into where the non-profit should be located: france, us, or elsewhere?)
12:45 paul     champagne for pierrick 1st commit !
12:44 kados    ahh ... quite huge in fact :-)
12:43 pierrick typo fixed: a ";" was missing at the end of Zebra connection retrieving in C4::Search->get_record
12:43 kados    heh
12:43 pierrick something huge
12:43 kados    pierrick: what was it? :-)
12:43 pierrick what a great modification I made !!!
12:42 kados    pierrick: congrats
12:42 kados    pierrick: woohoo! :-)
12:42 pierrick (I made my first commit, yeah :-)
12:41 kados    hdl: error codes in the report
12:41 kados    http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1048
12:40 kados    serials creation don't work anymore in rel_2_2 :-)
12:39 hdl      remind
12:39 hdl      Can you remid me ?
12:39 hdl      Seems I read it.
12:39 kados    hdl: did you see my bug report on serials creation?
12:38 kados    (also, authorities editor seems to truncate the 008 field)
12:35 kados    but I have not investigated why
12:35 kados    finally, the plugins do not seem to work in the auth editor ...
12:34 kados    (subfield reordering and repeatability within a tag for both authorities editing and biblios editing will be a giant step as well)
12:32 kados    (I'm quite excited about our level of conformance to MARC in 2.2.6)
12:32 kados    I'm not sure what function they serve
12:32 kados    however, for editing purposes
12:32 kados    at least to the patron looking for items
12:31 kados    as currently designed, the frameworks are used as 'search points' so they most closely resemble the 'headings' (ie, names, name/title combinations, uniform titles, or subjects. )
12:30 paul     I imagined thesaurus frameworks just to be able to have whet is in the 2nd digit : personal//corporate...
12:30 kados    I think we are very close to supporting full MARC authorities -- closer than I thought
12:29 paul     wow... /me never asked myself this question ;-)
12:29 kados    paul: so which of these levels of the hierarchy are the 'Thesaurus Frameworks' designed to handle?
12:29 kados    Reference and subdivision
12:29 kados    	
12:29 kados    g
12:29 kados    Established heading and subdivision
12:29 kados    	
12:29 kados    f
12:29 kados    Node label
12:29 kados    	
12:29 kados    e
12:29 kados    Subdivision
12:29 kados    	
12:29 kados    d
12:28 kados    Traced reference
12:28 kados    	
12:28 kados    c
12:28 kados    Untraced reference
12:28 kados    	
12:28 kados    b
12:28 kados    Established heading
12:28 kados    	
12:28 kados    a
12:28 kados    specifically position 9:
12:28 kados    and finally, there are designations in the 008 fixed field
12:28 kados    ie X00 == personal names X10 == corporate names, etc.
12:27 kados    there are also content designation in the remainder of the tag
12:26 kados    etc.
12:26 kados    4XX 	See from tracings
12:26 kados    3XX 	Complex see also references
12:26 kados    2XX 	Complex see references
12:26 kados    1XX 	Headings (authoritative and reference)
12:26 kados    0XX  Standard numbers, classification numbers, codes
12:26 kados    The variable data fields are grouped into blocks according to the first character of the tag, which identifies the function of the data within the field. The type of information in the field is identified by the remainder of the tag. The blocks are:
12:26 kados    [snip]...
12:26 kados    "All headings are one of the following types: names, name/title combinations, uniform titles, or subjects."
12:26 kados    http://www.loc.gov/marc/uma/pt1-7.html#pt4
12:26 kados    specifically this section:
12:25 kados    http://www.loc.gov/marc/uma/
12:25 kados    this reference is quite useful:
12:24 kados    (hint, a type of authority can hold several different headings)
12:24 kados    or different authorities types?
12:23 kados    are they to specify different authorities headings?
12:23 kados    I also have a question about intended uses of the 'frameworks' in authorities
12:23 kados    hmmm
12:23 paul     (gg)
12:23 paul     ok, ok, I resign ! you won !
12:23 hdl      and rejected form.
12:23 hdl      parrallel form
12:23 hdl      Associate from
12:23 hdl      Main form
12:22 kados    for instance, authorities from OCLC
12:22 hdl      Maybe would it be useful to have 3 or 4 tabs :
12:22 kados    in fact, MARC21 authority records can be quite long
12:22 hdl      But paul, with MSC, I have some exemples where you have 5 or 6 subfields on the same page.
12:22 kados    right
12:21 hdl      and not only the fields that you needfor your authority.
12:21 hdl      because they display every field.
12:21 hdl      kados : yes
12:20 kados    paul: for some reason, the default auth records are quite long in fact
12:20 paul     and it don't need any DB modifs unless i'm missing something
12:20 paul     modify auth editor to look like bib editor : of course. (except for tabs, that are useless I thought, an authority record is never so long that it needs tabs)
12:18 kados    paul: may require some modif to the db as well ?
12:18 kados    paul: can you modify the auth editor to work like the bib editor (with tabs, etc.)
12:17 kados    paul: :-)
12:17 paul     (that just require a link to be added to fulfill UN requirements ;-) )
12:17 kados    there are still some problems with the authorities editor
12:16 kados    sent to koha-devel
12:16 kados    ok ... I'll commit it along with some documentation
12:16 paul     so, it's a great feature !
12:16 kados    paul: it will append any subfields that exist correctly
12:16 kados    paul: and for the see (4XX) and seealso (5XX)
12:15 kados    paul: the code follows MARC21 practice for determining the authorized heading (ie 1XX)
12:15 paul     otherwise, I think it's really a good hack if it work for all MARC21. It should work for UNIMARC as well if I don't mind, as, i've been told that authorities are closed between UNIMARC And MARC21
12:14 kados    paul: look at the 'Twain' example
12:14 paul     * what append if there is another field/subfield that is not in your "template" ?
12:14 paul     * how will it work if there is no "see also", or "see" ?
12:13 kados    paul: with a new syspref for 'authoritiesheadings'
12:13 kados    paul: I could commit it as an alternative without touching 'summary'
12:13 kados    paul: the hard-coded example on opac.liblime.com will work with all MARC21 authorities records
12:13 paul     pierrick : read private channel.
12:12 paul     kados : right.
12:12 kados    paul: it does not understand that this is a hierarchy
12:12 kados    paul: [400a] will repeat right next to itself
12:12 kados    paul: 100 $a 100 $d 100 $q 400 $a 400 $a 400 $d
12:11 kados    paul: HOWEVER, the display will come out like this:
12:11 kados    paul: [100a] [100d] [100q] [400a] [400d]
12:11 kados    paul: the ISBD entry would look like this:
12:10 kados    paul: 100 $a $d $q 400 $a $d 400 $a
12:10 kados    paul: however, if you have a record like the 'Lewis' record:
12:09 kados    paul: it will work fine for this example because there is no repeatability
12:09 kados    paul: [100a] [100c] [400a] [400d] [500a] [500d]
12:09 kados    paul: in the ISBD method you can say you want those to display as:
12:08 kados    paul: 100 $a $c 400 $a $d 500 $a $d
12:08 paul     (je suis le paul poulain co-auteur et Release Manager de Koha ;-) )
12:08 kados    paul: it has the following entries in MARC:
12:08 kados    paul: NAME heading
12:07 kados    paul: look at the auth heading for 'Twain'
12:07 fsouchon tu bosses où?
12:07 paul     (c'est mon business Koha, donc si tu veux qu'on fasse une affaire ensemble ;-) )
12:07 kados    paul: I will try to explain
12:06 paul     kados : ???
12:06 fsouchon merci paul
12:06 kados    paul: the problem with ISBD is it can't handle repeatability correctly
12:06 fsouchon mais là le choix ne nous appartient pas
12:06 paul     and if you need more help : 04 91 31 45 19
12:06 fsouchon je susi fondamentalement contre M$ et sa saube de IIS
12:06 paul     you're welcome fsouchon
12:06 fsouchon paul,
12:06 paul     you could use the summary column.
12:06 fsouchon merci pa
12:06 kados    paul: (what used to be called 'summary')
12:06 pierrick on my working copy of HEAD, many pages produce "Internal Server Error". Only very few log in koha-erro_log, just "Premature end of script headers: systempreferences.pl, referer: http://plegall:8080/cgi-bin/koha/admin/admin-home.pl". How do I turn on log verbosity?
12:05 kados    paul: yep
12:05 paul     you mean the "authorized headings column ?
12:05 kados    paul: it does not use the ISBD style as ISBD is flawed in this instance
12:05 kados    paul: the display for that is hard-coded
12:05 paul     men, you rock !
12:05 kados    paul: do a seach for 'NAME' Lewis
12:04 kados    paul: there is now a authorities heading search on the opac
12:04 kados    paul: http://opac.liblime.com/
12:04 kados    paul: specifically the display
12:04 kados    paul: I've been hacking on authorities
12:04 kados    hi pierrick
12:04 kados    great
12:03 paul     yep, of course (4PM in France)
12:03 pierrick hello Joshua
12:03 paul     hello joshua
12:03 kados    paul: are you still around?
11:57 paul     (et je ne crois pas qu'il y ait un seul développeur de Koha sous windows... donc ca va pas changer... l'OPAC est testé sous IE, mais en toute fin de développement)
11:57 paul     si elle marche sous IE, c'est "par hasard"
11:57 paul     enfin, l'interface bibliothécaire est garantie sous mozilla.
11:56 paul     mais windows/apache, ca fonctionne, moyennant de l'huile de coude.
11:56 paul     (et compliqué à installer sous windows)
11:56 paul     le susnommé process utilise Net::z3950 qui est tout cassé sous IIS.
11:56 paul     pour ca, un process perl sur le serveur Koha va interroger les serveurs z3950
11:55 paul     Le client z3950 de Koha permet d'interroger les serveurs z3950 tout autour de la planète.
11:55 fsouchon ça passe?
11:55 fsouchon mais sur client web http
11:55 paul     je précise :
11:55 fsouchon oki
11:55 paul     perl Net::z3950 qui est tout cassé en IIS
11:55 fsouchon Moz /IE
11:55 fsouchon non c pour du client web léger
11:55 paul     là, ca marche po.
11:54 fsouchon quel est le problème?
11:54 paul     et pas question de mettre un client z3950 dessus
11:54 fsouchon arf
11:54 paul     c'est possible, mais ca marche fort mal.
11:54 fsouchon c petit :)
11:54 fsouchon c né d'une spécialisation de ntsys en opensource
11:54 paul     bon, pour répondre à la question :
11:54 paul     inconnu au bataillon.
11:54 fsouchon c nouveau
11:54 fsouchon alternancesoft
11:54 paul     un nom, un nom...
11:54 fsouchon est-ce possible?
11:54 fsouchon donc
11:54 fsouchon une SSLL
11:54 fsouchon ma boite
11:53 paul     c'est qui "on" ?
11:53 paul     sauf si kados est levé !
11:53 fsouchon mais en IIS :/
11:53 fsouchon on a uen demande
11:53 paul     (et même que ca pour tout dire.)
11:53 fsouchon lol
11:53 paul     plein de frenchies aujourdh'ui...
11:53 fsouchon bonjour
11:53 paul     fsouchon bonjour
11:53 fsouchon Is it possible to run Koha via a IIS server ?
11:53 paul     pierrick : koha >> parameters >> sytempreferences is your friend
11:52 fsouchon hello
11:52 pierrick where do I set the default intranet theme ? (I brutally modified C4::Output::themeLanguage, but it's obviously not the correct method)
11:02 pierrick ;-)
11:02 pierrick How could it be slower?
11:01 paul     for CVS it's really faster than sourceforge !
11:00 pierrick If you knew the speed of Gna! infrastructure :-)...