Time Nick Message
06:37 |hdl| hello all.
05:24 chris nope these are the quiet hours normally
05:15 rosa not much doing right now
05:14 rosa hello
05:14 osmoze hello
02:53 thd kados: I sent the email message about LC content
02:53 thd good night kados
02:52 kados cya all tomorrow
02:51 kados thd: :-)
02:51 thd kados: great, as soon as you have access to Cataloguer's Desktop you can start following AACR2 capitalisation rules for describing how Koha owned MARC :)
02:51 kados now we're back to not being able to repeat tags :/
02:51 kados shoot, how did that happen?
02:49 kados chris: got indicators! :-)
02:49 kados thd: indicators working
02:49 kados woot!
02:28 kados cool, thanks
02:27 thd kados: I will send you an email in a few minutes about the possibility of LibLime hosting the LC content.
02:26 kados sweet
02:26 thd kados: trials are good for 1-4 users.
02:26 kados then I sign up and you ride mine for 30 ... then we get chris to sign up ad infinatum :-)
02:25 thd kados: You can ride on my subscription for 30 days.
02:25 kados I figure you use it for 30 days
02:25 kados :-)
02:25 kados ok
02:25 thd kados: Do not sign up yet.
02:24 kados chris: ciao
02:24 kados thd: no, but I will soon, did you?
02:24 thd kados: have you signed up for a free trial of Cataloguer's Desktop?
02:24 kados thd: for when we get that in the interface
02:24 kados thd: it even supports repeated subfields
02:24 thd kados: that is fantastic
02:23 kados thd: the other bugs are squashed :-)
02:23 kados thd: but easily fixed
02:23 kados thd: it's a prob with the new design
02:23 chris no problemo
02:22 kados sweet, thanks for the help!
02:22 thd kados: no indicators for control fields, but that is merely a user interface issue I hope.
02:22 chris and it must be bedtime for you :)
02:22 chris but its dinner time now
02:22 kados k
02:22 chris ill have a think and take a crack at it later
02:22 chris values even
02:22 kados and increment there or something
02:22 chris yeah
02:22 kados you could probably just check for tags that eq ""
02:21 kados yea, I was thinking that earlier
02:21 chris then it would be easy peasy
02:21 chris so they are the same length as the @tags one
02:21 chris if we could pad the arrays
02:20 chris hmm ill have a think
02:20 chris maybe
02:20 kados commited
02:20 chris we need to build a hash .. but we have to make sure that if we get 2 indicators for the same tag we do something like {tag-1}
02:19 chris and i think for the indicators
02:19 chris and then commit
02:19 chris yep, get rid of those warns
02:19 kados lemme commit this real quick
02:18 chris right
02:18 kados and separate ones for repeated tags
02:18 chris like there is for tags
02:18 kados right, just one per tag
02:18 chris there isnt one for every subfield
02:18 kados I'm so excited I think I might poop my pants :-)
02:18 chris so our main problem with indicators is
02:18 kados yep
02:17 chris ok indicators
02:17 chris http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23745
02:17 chris yes
02:16 chris does the a,b bit show?
02:16 chris if you fill in 2 fields on the 245
02:16 kados any ideas on those?
02:16 kados indicators
02:16 kados yep :-)
02:16 chris :-)
02:16 chris we own MARC
02:16 kados working like a charm
02:15 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23741
02:15 kados rock on
02:15 chris and if so we can comment out our warns and give it a commit
02:15 chris through in a pile of stuff and lets see if it all comes thru
02:14 kados or two actually
02:14 chris k
02:14 kados let me throw a 600 in there
02:14 chris rock on
02:14 kados repeated tags too :-)
02:14 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23741
02:14 kados wooot
02:13 chris ok lets see what our xml looks like now
02:13 kados done
02:13 chris line
02:13 chris befofe the $xml.="<subfield code=\"@$subfields[$i]\">@$values[$i]</subfield>\n";
02:12 chris }
02:12 chris $first=0;
02:12 chris $xml.="<datafield tag=\"@$tags[$i]\" ind1=\" \" ind2=\" \">\n";
02:12 chris if ($first){
02:12 kados yep
02:12 chris after the else { we just uncommented
02:11 chris ok i have a plan
02:11 chris and we just have to figure out why no <datafield
02:10 chris that will fix that
02:10 kados k
02:10 chris yeah lets uncomment that thing we commented out
02:10 kados <subfield code="b"></subfield>
02:10 kados also, there are lots of blank subfields
02:10 kados <controlfield tag="008"> is the previous tag
02:10 chris right
02:10 kados but there is no containing tag
02:09 chris right
02:09 kados <subfield code="a">Joshua Ferraro</subfield>
02:09 kados stuff is there
02:09 kados interesting
02:08 chris might let us see what we are doing wrong ... we are so so close
02:08 kados k ... here goes
02:08 chris so we can see what the xml looks like
02:08 chris lets whack in a warn $xml right at the end before the return
02:07 kados right
02:07 chris doesnt look like that was the problem
02:07 kados but it still doesn't work
02:07 kados I had one to omany }
02:06 kados actually, no
02:06 kados yea
02:05 chris spazzing about blank subfields eh?
02:05 chris now ?
02:05 chris so its just $xml.="<subfield code=\"@$subfields[$i]\">@$values[$i]</subfield>\n";
02:04 kados done
02:04 chris and see if that makes any difference
02:03 chris can yuo comment out the if and else bit
02:03 chris }
02:03 chris $xml.="<subfield code=\"@$subfields[$i]\">@$values[$i]</subfield>\n";
02:03 chris else {
02:03 chris }
02:03 chris if (@$values[$i] eq "") {
02:03 chris i wonder
02:02 kados weird
02:02 chris s
02:02 chris then it work
02:02 chris in title
02:02 chris if you fill in every field
02:02 chris http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23742
02:02 chris yes thats it
02:00 kados and maybe if there's just one filled in subfield it just omits it altogether?
02:00 chris subfield i mean
01:59 chris its anything that has more than one field
01:59 chris ahh
01:59 kados now, if we can just get our catalogers to switch to using JUST the 300 :-)
01:59 chris just have to figure out why it not starting a new tag for the 100 an 245
01:58 kados hehe
01:58 chris it has a bunch in the 300 tag and it didnt flinch
01:58 chris good news is, it wil handle repeating subfields
01:57 kados hehe
01:57 chris and 300 tag contains the 100 and 245
01:57 chris isbn came thru
01:57 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23741
01:57 chris http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23740
01:57 kados well my 100 and 245 got dropped anyway
01:57 chris nope
01:57 kados looks like everything> 10 gets dropped
01:57 chris thats what it did for me
01:56 kados hehe
01:56 kados still no luck
01:56 chris i bet if you put a 300 tag, the 100 info would end up in that
01:56 kados done
01:55 chris back to that
01:55 kados yep
01:55 chris can you try changing that to < 10 again
01:55 kados my 245 and 100 just got lost completely
01:55 chris cool i think this ight be our lt bit
01:55 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23741
01:55 kados good news is 006 is repeating:
01:54 kados heh
01:54 chris its lost the info about 100 and 245 ... they ended up int the 300 tag
01:54 chris its got the subfields
01:54 chris http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23740
01:54 chris ohhh
01:53 kados let me try repeated fixed fields
01:53 chris damnit
01:53 kados now it does all the fixed fields but nothing else :-)
01:53 kados heh
01:52 chris committed again
01:52 chris ok
01:47 chris ill try a few more things
01:47 chris right
01:47 chris ah yes cos the leader is always going to be first
01:46 kados leader too
01:46 chris missing all the ones that have more than one subfield now
01:46 chris the 003 etc came for me
01:45 chris http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23738
01:45 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23737
01:45 kados nope ... now just the 000 and the 001 are coming through
01:43 chris ok committed again
01:43 kados k
01:42 chris 2 secs
01:41 chris darn
01:41 kados [Tue Feb 28 20:40:10 2006] [error] [client 70.104.108.241] Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/MARC/File/SAX.pm
01:40 chris i did a commit that may have fixed it
01:40 kados chris: any news?
00:42 kados I should be back in about an hour or so
00:42 kados excellent
00:42 kados thanks for the help tonight ...
00:42 chris k ill commit when i have something that i think might work :)
00:41 kados do some shopping
00:41 kados I'm gonna head out for a bit
00:41 kados ok I'll tell them that
00:41 kados ahh
00:41 chris you need to return it off a borrowers card if you want it to stop charging
00:41 chris they will
00:41 kados :-)
00:40 kados btw: looks like NBBC's fines are working out well ... only prob is that they are charging even for items they've marked lost
00:35 kados thx
00:35 kados yep, just warns
00:35 chris and commit
00:35 chris ill rearrange it
00:35 chris all we have done since my commit was warns right?
00:34 kados you mean before the if?
00:34 chris need to be in that section
00:34 chris that only have one line
00:34 chris those ones
00:33 chris we have it in the wrong place
00:33 kados ahh ... right!
00:33 chris ahh
00:33 chris cos its not the same as the prev tag
00:33 chris it keeps matching that
00:33 chris i reckon thats the problem
00:33 chris what about a warn after that
00:32 chris if ((@$tags[$i] ne $prevtag) && ($prevtag != -1)){
00:32 chris ok
00:32 chris cool as it should be
00:32 kados only 100 and 245 show up there
00:31 chris maybe for some reason first is getting set to 0
00:30 kados k
00:30 chris after that
00:30 chris if (!$first){
00:30 chris how about we put a warn here
00:29 chris hmm
00:29 kados yea, it shows up before the if, but nowhere else!
00:29 chris what the hell
00:29 kados either
00:29 kados yea ... so not showing up inside if (@$values[$i] eq "") {
00:26 chris yep
00:25 kados (these logs files are getting hard to parse :-))
00:25 kados let me put the tags in so I can see what they are
00:25 kados well I get some action there
00:24 chris in that bit?
00:24 chris not even after if (@$values[$i] eq "") {
00:24 chris thats just weird
00:24 chris -its
00:24 kados nope
00:24 chris but its they arent showing up anywhere else?
00:24 kados they are there
00:22 kados ok
00:21 chris and make sure the tags are at least gettting to it
00:21 chris just do a warn @$tags[$i];
00:21 chris before that
00:21 chris if ((@$tags[$i] ne $prevtag) && ($prevtag != -1)){
00:20 chris hokay lets just try
00:20 chris and nothing in the warns as to where it went?
00:20 kados still missing 003,005,008
00:20 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23733
00:19 kados sure
00:19 chris get that bit sorted, then worry about the mod? although it shouldnt matter
00:18 chris could we just try doing an addbiblio ?
00:18 chris hmm
00:17 kados and that line in Biblio.pm is in MODmodbibitem
00:17 kados cause I've been doing a mod item here
00:17 kados I suspect that other prob too
00:17 kados yea
00:16 chris could we put a warn here, maybe its matching in there when it shouldnt?
00:16 kados [Tue Feb 28 19:14:59 2006] [error] [client 70.104.108.241] DBD::mysql::db do failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax. Check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 22 at /var/www/liblime.com/koha/intranet/modules/C4/Biblio.pm line 1796
00:16 kados here's something interesting
00:16 chris if (@$values[$i] eq "") {
00:14 chris well thats good
00:14 kados only matched for the 000
00:12 chris make sure thats not matching all the time
00:12 chris lets try sticking a warn in the leader bit
00:12 chris weird
00:11 kados I only get it for 245
00:11 chris for anything except the title?
00:11 chris so you dont even get the not called bit
00:10 chris damn
00:10 kados nope :(
00:10 kados liblime demo updated
00:09 kados rollback seems to have worked
00:09 kados ahh
00:07 chris if its a controlfield or leader you dont want that subfield bit
00:07 chris ohh i do
00:07 chris oh no i dont
00:06 chris ahh i think i see whats wong here
00:06 chris umm i dont actually know
00:05 kados chris: is that wrong ?
00:05 kados chris: cvs update -j 1.154 Biblio.pm
00:03 chris :)
00:03 kados k ... committed to rel_2_2 this time :-)
00:00 kados k :-)
00:00 chris can you commit what you have, and ill take a look, its hard to do it in my head :)
00:00 chris hmmm
00:00 kados though it's filled with a value
00:00 chris so then it must be matching the if
00:00 kados even 100 doesn't show up
23:59 chris hmmm
23:59 kados just the 245
23:58 chris is it printing out what the tags are in the error log now?
23:58 chris im not sure that is the problem
23:58 chris dunno
23:58 kados will perl do that?
23:58 kados to set it to an integer
23:58 kados $current_tag = @$tags[$i];
23:58 kados maybe we need to do something like:
23:57 kados :(
23:57 kados wait I"m wrong
23:57 chris -;
23:56 chris @$tags[$i] lt "010";
23:56 kados I did :-)
23:56 chris lets try lt
23:55 kados so that last else never gets called ?
23:55 kados lt maybe?
23:55 kados hmmm ...
23:55 chris whats for stribngs?
23:55 chris < for integers
23:55 chris hmm so == is for integers eq is for strings
23:54 kados k
23:54 chris so we can see what its getting?
23:54 chris warn @$tags[$i];
23:54 chris could we put in the next else bit
23:53 chris darn
23:53 kados still nogo
23:52 chris @$tags[$i] < "010"
23:51 chris lets try
23:51 chris but are strings
23:50 chris it could be because they arent really integers
23:50 chris right
23:50 kados gives me nuthin
23:50 kados warn "IN THE IF";
23:50 kados } elsif (@$tags[$i] < 10) {
23:49 kados it's not in the if
23:48 chris just to check if we are getting into there, and then if we are, then its just a matter of fixing our xml
23:48 kados sure
23:48 kados (sprintf "%03s",@$rtags[$i])
23:48 kados I'm gonna try this:
23:48 chris see if we are getting into that if
23:48 chris can we whack a warn in there
23:47 kados $xml.="<controlfield tag=\"@$tags[$i]\">@$values[$i]</controlfield>\n";
23:47 kados not working
23:47 kados ho hum
23:47 chris hmm either it still didnt work, or i beat you
23:46 chris ok ill try submitting again
23:46 kados ok, fixed
23:46 kados and no @$values[$i] :-)
23:46 chris that could well be why :-)
23:45 chris :)
23:45 kados not valid XML even :-)
23:45 kados heh
23:45 kados http://www.loc.gov/standards/marcxml/Sandburg/sandburg.xml
23:45 kados $xml.="<controlfield tag=\"@$tags[$i]\"</controlfield>\n";
23:45 chris ?
23:45 chris so the leader works, but the others below 10 dont .. are we sure the xml is right for them
23:44 chris oh i lie i did
23:44 chris nope
23:44 kados those are mandatory so you had to fill them in right?
23:44 kados 003, 005, 008
23:43 chris what other fields?
23:43 kados but none of the other fields
23:43 chris yep?
23:43 kados in your test it has the leader
23:43 kados not really
23:43 chris adding a new one seems to be working?
23:43 chris i filled in all the fields it yelled at me to fill in
23:42 chris http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23730
23:42 chris nope
23:41 kados did you disable javascript to get it to submit? :-)
23:41 kados wait ... so if you saved that with a leader, 005, 008, etc.
23:41 chris lemme try sticking some stuff in the leader
23:40 kados hmmm, maybe my test record wasn't right
23:40 chris whats it doing wrong?
23:39 chris http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23729
23:39 kados ahh
23:38 chris that will never match cos if it eq "000" it will get caught by the first if anyway
23:38 chris (@$tags[$i] ne "000"))
23:38 chris &&
23:38 chris dont need this bit
23:37 chris nope
23:37 kados do I need some 'next;'s in there?
23:37 kados yep
23:36 chris if ($first == 1){
23:36 chris does all of that come after
23:36 chris yep thats right
23:36 kados I set $first=1 because I thought it shouldn't tag on a closing </datafield>
23:35 chris hmm
23:34 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23727
23:34 kados chris: ends up looking like this:
23:34 kados chris: that ^^ isn't working
23:34 kados }
23:34 kados $first=0;
23:34 kados $xml.="<datafield tag=\"@$tags[$i]\" ind1=\" \" ind2=\" \">\n";
23:34 kados } else {
23:34 kados # everything else
23:34 kados $first=1;
23:34 kados $xml.="<controlfield tag=\"@$tags[$i]\"</controlfield>\n";
23:34 kados } elsif ((@$tags[$i] < 10) && (@$tags[$i] ne "000")) {
23:34 kados # rest of the fixed fields
23:34 kados $first=1;
23:34 kados $xml.="<leader>@$values[$i]</leader>\n";
23:34 kados if (@$tags[$i] eq "000") {
23:34 kados # leader
22:12 thd kados: What I wanted is the record editor that Koha has now working the way it will soon. I never had the time to create that so I used programmatic transformations inside a coloured syntax text editor and everyone rightly hated it.
22:06 thd kados: Of course, I was doing that for a business that could not afford the relatively leisurely and expensive pace at which original library records are usually created.
22:03 thd kados: i have copy catalogued books and I always wanted more improvements to make the process faster before my fingers wore out. Especially when I had to start with a record which only partly matched the material that I was cataloguing.
21:59 kados thd: good points
21:58 thd kados: Bringing up subfields one at a time and then pushing the order around with arrows will allow valid records to be created but some types of records will be especially tedious to create if the subfields cannot be brought up in groups already in the correct order in the place they are needed.
21:55 thd s/most commonly used/most commonly used for that field/
21:54 thd kados: Towards that end, it would be good to be able to add special groups of repeatable subfields brought up in an order that is most commonly used or adjustable in some framework column, other preference setting, especially good if it is changeable from a selection list for a particular record in the midst of editing.
21:50 kados thd: soon as we get the new editor back-end working (ie, fix the bug where it saves blank fields, get subfield repeatability and subfield ordering) I'll work that in
21:50 kados thd: yep
21:50 thd kados: Exactly, as long as there is a means to bring them into view when needed.
21:49 kados thd: it should be trivial to have a setting for 'hide unless clicked'
21:49 kados thd: my thought was that we could hide those with judicious use of javascript
21:49 thd kados: It just seems undesirable for a cataloguer to be passing across large parts of a form to fill the needed values in needed places.
21:47 thd kados: In addition to the issue about subfield plugins, with added columns for the frameworks to support them there is the issue of too many seldom used optional fields and subfields or even mandatory if applicable fields and subfields for even item type specific minimal frameworks.
21:46 kados cool, thanks
21:43 thd kados: I know at least one of them is still working there :).
21:42 thd kados: See what kind of response you can obtain first and then I will give you some inside email addresses.
21:41 thd kados: Now the mailbox for leaving telephone messages is liable to be full.
21:40 thd kados: However, before you could at least get a direct answer from someone over telephone about simple questions.
21:39 thd kados: They were not especially speedy before.
21:39 kados wow!
21:39 thd kados: Expect a slow response to you enquiry.
21:39 thd kados: They have only one person in technical support now.
21:38 thd kados: They are planning to refill positions but that will not happen instantly.
21:38 kados heh, yea I heard about that
21:37 thd kados: Also 40% of CDS staff took an early retirement incentive in January.
21:36 kados hehe
21:36 thd kados: Warning, they charge lots for packaging.
21:36 thd kados: If they have it packaged. They would certainly sell a copy to you.
21:35 thd kados: That would be very nice.
21:33 kados thd: imagine how nice that would be :-)
21:33 kados thd: and if I ask nicely enough maybe I can get it :-)
21:32 kados thd: right, but ideally they have the data in a really nice format like XML
21:30 thd kados: Certainly the ALA still owns AACR2 and no law states that you own it became it is not from the US government. There are specific laws stating that you own LC products.
21:28 thd kados: If LC produced it themselves, you own the content already under US law. However, an outside contractor may have copyright over the user interface and they might add play nicely terms to the user agreement.
21:25 thd kados: Certainly, TLC just copied everything at one point and added their own user interface. Yet they have not taken the effort to keep their copy up to date.
21:24 kados TaC that is :-)
21:24 kados thd: I'm reading ToC now
21:23 thd kados: Except that the user interface is probably restricted and you probably have to sign something that might encumber the right that you would have to do that otherwise.
21:23 kados thd: that'd be a killer feature
21:23 kados thd: maybe we could nab it from Cataloger's Desktop in electronic form and wrap it into Koha somehow :-)
21:22 thd kados: AACR2 is not in the public domain but all their other information is. You could make a copy and distribute it.
21:21 kados thd: looks like you can get the 30 day free trial
21:21 thd kados: They still have a 30 day free trial so I do not have to worry about the out of date TLC copy of the documentation.
21:19 thd kados: http://www.loc.gov/cds/desktop/
21:19 kados thd: would that be useful?
21:19 thd While using Cataloger's Desktop you can look up a rule in AACR2 and then easily consult the rule's LC Rule Interpretation (LCRI). Also features extensive links to the MARC 21 format.
21:19 thd kados: AACR2 - in Cataloger's Desktop
21:19 kados thd: I could even give you access to it as an agent of LibLime :-)
21:19 kados maybe I should look into that
21:17 thd kados: It certainly has up to date MARC21 manual and other fine circulars, etc.
21:16 thd kados: An online subscription for LibLime to what at least used to be called Cataloguer's Desktop may include AACR2.
21:14 thd s/won/own/
21:14 thd kados: Cataloguers guard their won references jealously though.
21:13 thd kados: There is one at every library that employs professional cataloguers.
21:13 kados thd: there's one at the library :-)
21:12 thd kados: I do not see how you can operate your business at a high standard without at least having ready access to a copy.
21:11 thd kados; it would be easy to extend the framework to include extra columns in the marc_tag_structure to make it more like the marc_subfield_structure so that it could support independent plugins for each indicator.
21:11 kados thd: is it worth it do you think?
21:10 kados thd: I'm thinking of purchasing AARC2
21:10 kados interesting
21:07 thd kados: Any MARC reference will give the values.
21:06 thd kados: The value of the indicators should also change the descriptive label for the field but that is a supplementary issue.
21:05 thd kados: They should all have plugins separately for each in most cases just like the ones that you had made for fixed fields.
21:04 kados rather than all tags having all legal values?
21:03 kados I see ... so are there tags where the indicators only have certain legal values?
21:03 thd kados; My issue was not about theoretically extra indicators but rather plugin support for them independently rather than merely value lists collectively.
21:02 kados thd: if we need to expand it in the future we can
21:02 kados thd: seems easiest for us if we stick with two for now
21:01 thd kados: Some ancient systems occasionally tried to put system information in a third indicator but that was rare and definitely discouraged since LC could suddenly define values for a third indicator not that they ever have or would.
20:59 kados ok
20:59 kados thd: have you?
20:59 thd kados: only two at the most are officially designated.
20:59 kados thd: in actual data
20:59 kados thd: I've never seen more than two used
20:59 thd kados: there are letters and other symbols used
20:58 thd kados: yes just two defined although the standard theoretically allows for more but each of the two can have more than ten values.
20:57 kados thd: you sure? I thought it was just two place values
20:57 thd kados: pity the poor music cataloguer :)
20:56 thd kados: no some are very very long
20:56 kados thd: for the indicators?
20:56 kados thd: but it's just values from 1-9 right?
20:56 thd s/each plugin/indicator/
20:56 thd kados: filling them collectively is crazy unless by plugin because each plugin is usually independent.
20:56 kados thd: I'll put it on my list
20:55 kados thd: it should be trivial to do that
20:55 thd kados: indicators may be hand edited or filled collectively from a value list.
20:54 kados correct me if I"m wrong
20:54 kados as I understand it, the indicators can be automatically generated
20:54 kados ahh
20:54 thd kados: sorry I meant no support exists for indicator plugins
20:53 kados thd: could you expand on that?
20:53 kados thd: 'subfield grouping'?
20:53 kados thd: 'subfield plugin'?
20:52 thd kados: They were a couple of days ago.
20:51 thd kados: Did you see my #koha messages to you after you may have gone to sleep about the need for subfield plugin support in the frameworks, subfield grouping, and bringing up seldom used fields and subfields in the editor without having them clutter the screen?
20:46 thd kados: Changes are only official once a year, currently in October it seems.
20:45 kados yep
20:45 thd kados: of course that will be a constellation of defaults for different record types and encoding levels.
20:44 kados :-)
20:44 thd kados: even in Koha 6.7
20:44 kados by providing a really solid default
20:44 kados the goal is to minimize the instances when that will be necessary
20:43 kados I think it's going to always be tricky to update a framework in Koha 2.2
20:43 thd kados: maybe satisfying custom use in standard frameworks is necessarily a logical impossibility :)
20:42 thd kados: Updated standard frameworks can always be provided but it would be nice if they satisfied custom use as well.
20:40 thd kados: I mean if the less a user would need to customise standard frameworks to keep their custom framework up to date the better.
20:39 thd kados: It would be easiest for the user if they had less work to do ensuring that their custom framework was up to date if they could always rely on the standard one.
20:37 thd kados: Every October if not a little before there will be revisions to MARC 21 with new fields and subfields and others marked obsolete. Maybe there will be more format integration from variant national systems.
20:36 kados thd: remind me of what you mean
20:36 thd kados: what about the issue of updating the standard fields on a regular basis.
20:35 thd kados: I had liked the confidence, Koha cannot loose any data that conforms to the standard, but I had not measured the possible performance issue of adding over an extra hundred subfields with all local use fields and subfields having at least a filler definition.
20:32 kados thd: I think that's a good place to draw it
20:32 kados thd: we have to draw the line somewhere between local customization and default settings
20:32 kados thd: because otherwise the editor might be too confusing to use
20:32 thd kados: OK
20:32 kados thd: yes I think that would be better
20:31 kados thd: that one could present to a client saying "if you have data in any of these fields let us know"
20:31 thd kados: I have not populated all local use fields yet. I still have some standard fields to complete. Do you think it is better to let the user beware to customise the framework to avoid data loss for local use fields?
20:31 kados thd: I think all possible undefined local use fields might be overkill .. though it might be nice to have a spec sheet outlining what they could potentially be used for
20:30 thd kados: Therefore, I have attempted to rely on documentation for obsolete fields in the standard field areas to safeguard legacy data.
20:28 kados thd: that seems like an awful lot of local use fields
20:28 thd kados: I intend to fill all possible undefined local use fields and subfields with enumerated subfields to preserve that information but filling all possible fields and subfields for even standard fields would be overkill that would slow down the record editor.
20:27 kados thd: yay!
20:25 thd kados: Yow should be able to tell all libraries that even if they do not hire you the framework will not eat their information.
20:24 kados it only uses default
20:24 kados btw: I asked paul about cases where 'search also' was defined in more than one framework differently
20:24 thd kados: These are fields that are not valid for new information but Koha 2 discards the when editing records or adding items.
20:23 kados thd: but it's pretty easy for me to simply move those if need be -- it's part of the normal migration process to move tags/subfields from one location (852) to another (952)
20:22 thd kados: It is not so much the local use fields as the obsolete and even deleted fields and subfields that still carry legacy content on many systems.
20:21 kados thd: maybe do that after the rest of the framework is finished
20:21 kados thd: I wouldn't worry too much about the local use fields
20:21 thd kados: Otherwise, the up to date version from LC costs money although it is legal to copy and distribute.
20:19 thd kados: I will investigate a time limited remedy from LC. Maybe I can even try hard enough at NYPL, although, I only was successful in obtaining access to the looseleaf binder with complete documentation once several years ago after asking the right person very nicely and making a special appointment.
20:14 thd kados: Therefore that documentation is missing MARC unification information from UKMARC and others. It only includes USMARC and CAN/MARC unification information.
20:12 thd kados: one problem that I have documenting obsolete fields and subfields that can exist in legacy records as well as local use fields is that the complete MARC 21 documentation at TLC is three years old, although, I have been using 6 different sources of documentation.
20:07 thd kados: record number is 090 $c
20:07 thd kados: there are a few subfields that 090 uses
20:06 thd kados: 001 is strictly for record number
20:06 thd kados: ones that you suggested for 9XX use with $6 would conflict with Canadian use
20:05 kados what about 001?
20:05 kados cool
20:05 thd kados: I am going to post a query to find what the best local fields to use for strictly local system use actually are
20:04 kados thd: shouldn't be hard to change it
20:04 kados thd: yep
20:04 thd kados: did you see from the meeting log that I found a problem with 090?
20:03 kados thd: good news
20:03 chris ok
20:03 kados chris: that one has a major design flaw
20:03 kados chris: I think we need to start over :-)
20:03 thd kados: I seem to be fine now
20:03 chris got your email kados, shall i just work with the copy you sent me?
20:03 thd kados: I felt sick yesterday evening
20:03 kados thd: good to take breaks :-)
20:02 thd kados: it is mostly finished but I did not work on it during the past 2 days
20:02 kados thd: chris and I will be fixing the MARC editor this evening
20:02 kados thd: how's that MARC framework coming?
20:02 kados thd: sweet
20:00 thd kados: I am around again
17:14 kados chris: i started a rewrite of MARChtml2marc
17:14 tim Maybe I need to do more work in the server room
17:13 tim If I had an actual office...
17:13 chris 15 years ago .. how scary is that
17:13 chris ohh .. this song came out in my first year of university
17:12 chris fair enough tim :-)
17:12 tim I just sent that link to my home email. I'm not allowed to share music with the whole library.
17:12 chris i actually like this band, miniut
17:12 chris heh
17:12 shedges I kinda like it...
17:11 chris hehe
17:11 owen Or all your library patrons, for that matter!
17:10 chris hehe
17:10 chris you can annoy your coworkers by listening to nz music
17:09 chris http://www.kiwifm.co.nz/default,streaming.sm
17:08 owen Hi chris
16:56 chris morning
16:51 tim Thanks! I didn't think there were any reserves yet, but I thought I'd check.
16:46 kados tim: it was a security check on the hostname ... fixed now
16:45 kados tim: I'll have a look
16:44 richard morning
16:33 tim kados: When I click on Reserve List on the intranet, it sends me to the opactest home.
14:17 _hdl_ YEAH RELAX!
14:17 _hdl_ BUGS should be normal and no stress on that.
14:16 _hdl_ There are so many changes in 3.0
14:13 _hdl_ members donot work any more
14:13 _hdl_ kados: ItemType branches where are they now ?
13:07 osmoze ++
12:42 tim Is there any way to get Koha to auto generate barcode numbers during marc entry?
12:41 osmoze demain je pense :)
12:39 |hdl| tu as un autre problème ?
12:33 osmoze coucou hdl, désolé, je suis en train de faire un script, j avais une petite erreur mais j ai trouvé désolé :)
12:32 |hdl| osmoze toujours away ?
11:01 |hdl| kados : yes