Time Nick Message
11:31 kados morning everyone
11:32 kados hope to be done before 2.2.6 is released
11:32 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl
11:32 kados several new plugins I will commit soon for marc21
11:32 kados for fixed fields
12:06 hdl kados : login password ?
12:06 hdl oops
12:06 hdl I saw.
12:06 kados circ / liblime :-)
12:08 kados 008 is not working 100% yet
12:08 kados I'm still working on it
12:08 kados same with 005
12:08 kados but nearly works correctly :-)
12:43 kados paul_away: you around?
13:36 owen It's strange, I'm having the same login problem today reported by Don Robertson on the Koha list
13:36 owen I have to re-log-in every time I click a link
13:37 kados huh
13:37 owen I cleared the cookies and logged in again, but same thing. And it was working fine yesterday
13:37 owen Not on .76
13:37 owen On 101, rel_2_2
13:37 owen But I didn't change anything on that machine yesterday
13:41 kados that might be my fault
13:42 kados I did some major upgrades on 101 yesterday
13:42 kados in anticipation of the need to get head working on it
13:42 kados (cause head only works with the latest zebra and yaz and MARC::Record, etc.)
13:48 owen So whatever's going on for me may not be the same issue as reported on the list
13:59 kados hehe
14:04 hdl paul is not at home.
14:04 hdl kados : you use Data::Dumper.
14:04 hdl With a hashref, how does it work ?
14:05 hdl I trid Dumper($hashref)
14:05 hdl But seems not to work.
14:06 kados it should
14:06 kados use Data::Dumper;
14:06 kados warn Dumper($hashref);
14:06 kados hdl: like that ^^
14:07 hdl I forgot warn :/
14:12 owen Is that possible right now?
14:23 thd kados: Did you see my last to comments last night about numbering in fixed fields starting with 00 as the first position?
14:24 thd kados: keep that in mind or everything will be off by one
14:24 thd hdsl: are you still there?
14:26 thd hdl: are you still there?
14:26 hdl yes.
14:27 hdl owen : should be, since there is a userenv branch variable.
14:28 owen hdl: would that need to be added to the template variables in each script?
14:28 hdl owen: but it is always the same branch as his entry branch.
14:28 hdl owen: Unfortunately, yes.
14:28 owen we have a problem here where for whatever reason workstations are getting set back to the 'default' branch without anyone realizing it.
14:28 thd hdl: the basic point I tried to convey yesterday was that the different relationship of business and ordinary retail customers have with vendors allows the vendor to change the price of anything even the books and inform of the new price upon the customer opening the box
14:29 owen so issues are getting marked with the wrong branch
14:29 hdl owen: I wanted to make a contact admin link.
14:29 hdl It requires to modify all scripts.
14:29 owen It would be nice to have the branch name in the header on every page so that it was clear at all times
14:29 owen I wonder if there's a better way to do that? Some kind of global variables?
14:31 hdl owen: maybe modifying issuescript would be ok.
14:31 owen The circulation screen can show the branch, but that's the only page that does
14:31 hdl But it would require to dig into it more deeply.
14:32 hdl And to define what should be done.
14:32 thd hdl: Changing the price in the middle of the transaction would be harmful to the relationship between vendors and ordinary retail customers
14:32 owen hdl: it's something to keep in mind for the future
14:33 hdl It is also the sole script where branch are so precious.
14:33 thd hdl: vendors will not change the price in that context and it may also be illegal then.
14:35 thd hdl: Another issue is that all material of the some presumed type will not necessarily have the same tax rate.
14:37 thd hdl: VAT or sales tax can vary by what the item is and where it originates with some things being exempt.
14:38 thd hdl: I think normal acquisitions may not allow such variance even if it were working completely.
14:41 thd hdl: Vendors may also charge nothing for shipping of some things as a promotion. Even a particular item may have no price applied when purchased with something else as a promotion.
14:45 thd hdl: The final issue I wanted to raise was that in the absence of individualised information per item or the absence of the time to record the individualised information carefully, it is useful to attribute some shipping price estimate to each item for accounting purposes.
14:47 thd hdl: In the absence of information or time, dividing the total shipping charge for a box by the number of items in a box is better than not attributing a shipping charge to items at all.
14:51 thd hdl: Even better would be dividing the pay for the time required of everyone who touches the order and receiving process by the number of items. Libraries often guess about that number when deciding a replacement fine. Libraries usually do not charge enough for replacement fines in that case.
15:02 hdl well bye.
15:06 owen kados: did you say you were going to do a system pref for patron images?
15:10 kados owen: yea ... lets
15:11 kados I'll put it on my list ...
15:11 kados hopefully get to it today
15:12 owen We're collecting quite an array of preferences
15:20 kados yea ... hopefully it won't affect performance
15:20 kados we're going to need to reorganize them
15:20 kados at some point
15:40 thd kados: are you there?
15:55 kados thd: hi
15:55 thd kados: cure yourself if you can
15:56 thd kados: where doe the leader script obtain the possible values from?
15:57 kados thd: the template
15:57 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl
15:57 kados thd: the 005 function now works perfectly
15:58 kados thd: (well, I don't calculate more than year,mon,day, but all the values are there ... tell me what you think
15:58 thd kados: Oh, I saw there were templates for the script but did not think that templates should be storing values.
15:58 kados me either ...
15:58 kados really, we need some XML for that
15:59 kados I've got really neat ideas for how to handle cataloging with XUL/XSLT/XML
15:59 kados but gotta get something going for the next few months first :-)
15:59 thd kados: In fact they should not but if it works for now and you can demonstrate that for prospective customers then that is good.
16:00 thd kados: I had thought that there should be some way of automatically parsing data from LC regarding what goes where that might reduce maintenance.
16:01 thd kados: I excel at reformatting documents for purposes that they were never intended
16:02 kados heh
16:02 kados thd: how do you like the 005?
16:02 thd kados: However, MARC changes so slowly I thought the advantage might be small.
16:04 thd kados: very nice
16:04 kados thd: the 008 has all the values listed
16:04 thd kados: it should be trivial to add seconds
16:04 kados thd: but it's truncating everything past number 32
16:04 kados thd: it will be
16:05 kados thd: but for now I'd like to get 008 working
16:08 thd kados: you should allow empty values for no attempt to code where the presence of the particular position is not mandatory in minimal level records.
16:09 thd kados: are you one position short because of a coding issue to compensate for numbering starting with 00?
16:09 kados it's possible ... I've been looking at this a LONG time now :-)
16:09 kados I should probably get some breakfast ... brb
16:10 thd kados: breakfast helps thinking :)
16:13 thd owen: kados has a cold, keep a safe distance
16:14 kados yay ... as I was pouring my cereal I figured it out
16:14 kados hehe
16:14 owen And we live in the same county!
16:14 kados owen: are you sure I still _have_ a face? :-)
16:15 thd kados: I usually solve these problems in the shower
16:15 kados thd: wohoo!
16:15 kados I think it's working perfectly now
16:16 kados thd: can you double check for me?
16:16 thd kados: If I could get the thinking benefit from taking a shower 24 hours I would :)
16:16 kados hehe
16:16 kados yea in the shower and right as I'm falling asleep I have my best ideas :-)
16:16 owen They make special water-resistant writing boards for shower-thinking people, I think
16:18 kados heh
16:18 thd kados: the popup seems not to open now
16:18 kados thd: it might already be open
16:18 kados thd: I also have found I need to go to another page ... then go back to Add MARC
16:18 kados otherwise the javascript gets cached
16:19 thd kados: already opened. I will close that window and try again.
16:22 kados thd: did it work?
16:23 thd kadpos: yes, you need some good default values and some empty value possibilities.
16:23 kados thd: what should be the default values and which don't have empties and should?
16:23 thd kados: also some parts like language code need the language code list.
16:23 kados thd: that's way too long
16:24 kados thd: to be practical
16:24 kados thd: but I agree ... in the next cataloger for sure
16:24 kados we can scrape it off the LOC site
16:24 kados put it into XML
16:24 kados style it with XSLT
16:24 kados and display it in our nice XUL UI :-)
16:25 thd kados: a click here for more codes button could solve length after the most common languages.
16:25 kados thd: how about a link to the site that maintains them?
16:25 thd kados: That is what the weak record editors do.
16:26 thd kados: the weak ones would be the best of all the others.
16:27 kados is that a yes? :-)
16:27 kados thd: I'm also guessing 003 shouldn't be an authorized value
16:27 thd kados: the one that LC uses to do original cataloguing verifies against a value list after code entry but that is only for fast typists who know all the codes anyway.
16:27 kados thd: in the case of incoming MARC records
16:29 kados thd: link added
16:29 thd kados: Linking to get your codes here is last generation technology and that is where the best of the record editors is now.
16:30 thd kados: Koha is better than that.
16:31 kados thd: but not this version :-)
16:31 thd kados: provide at least a small value list of the major languages with large publishing industries and a default set to the OPAC language code default.
16:32 thd kados: pick the ten or twenty major languages for publishing.
16:33 thd kados: I will be happy to add it for you.
16:34 thd kados: 003 should be the institutional code from the official list of institutional codes.
16:35 thd kados: Anyone can get a code from LC but not everyone actually has an official one.
16:35 kados thd: I have a code :-)
16:35 kados thd: are you saying it's not official?
16:36 thd kados: It is official if you are in the US and obtained your code from LC.
16:36 kados thd: I did
16:36 thd kados: Then you have a valid code.
16:36 kados thd: it's OhAtLVL
16:37 kados LibLime Virtual Library (Athens, OH)
16:37 thd kados: This same code is supposed to be used in holdings of course.
16:37 kados I still don't know if our plugins can span multiple tags/subfields
16:37 kados ie, put a value in one and it updates the other one
16:38 kados thd: I also don't know how to set up linking
16:38 thd kados: Do you get a new code if you move, or is your virtual library always in Athens even if you move?
16:38 kados i think you get a new code
16:40 thd kados: paul is able to fill likely publisher name from ISBN but I do not know if that was the context of your earlier point.
16:41 kados thd: if we could obtain a csv list of Control Number Identifiers, we could put them in the authoroized values field
16:41 thd kados: what linking are you referencing in your question about setting up linking?
16:41 kados thd: well ... any linking really ... I have yet to see an instance of it in any real data
16:42 kados thd: so I guess I'm curious to know how it works and whether we can do it in Koha
16:42 thd kados: You were complaining about the language list being too large :)
16:42 kados but perhaps that's a question for another day
16:42 kados thd: yea, I retract my recent statment
16:42 kados thd: we'll have to wait till the new cataloger for that feature
16:43 kados thd: should we work on 007 and 006?
16:43 kados thd: or is 008 not sufficiently done?
16:43 thd kados: 006 is almost identical to 008
16:43 kados goody :-)
16:44 thd kados: 006 is required if and only if there is additional material to be catalogued that is part of the primary material being catalogued.
16:45 thd kados: 007 is the most fun though.
16:45 kados ok ... I should be able to whip up 006 in a few minutes
16:45 thd kados: A good plugin would make filling it fun so that it would actually be used.
16:48 thd kados: 245 $h can also be filled in most cases from the values in the leader as modified by 008, 006, and 007.
16:49 kados thd: check out how I did 245$h and tell me if you like it
16:51 thd kados: is that the AACR2 list?
16:52 kados I got it from oclc
16:55 thd kados: some institutions will find that list under-inclusive and many institutions use special material designation that is more closely associated with 007.
16:57 thd kados: for example many institutions actually have a practise of using 245 $h to designate DVD as opposed to VHS or Betamax instead of mere videorecording etc.
17:00 thd kados: The OCLC usage is the official practise of the antiquated AACR2 general material designation that they may require for their own records to ensure least specialised practise conformity in their cataloguing records.
17:05 thd kados: some institutions consider 300 $b to be too much of a free form text field so they expand the 245 $h list beyond the general material designation recognised by AACR2.
17:06 thd kados: AACR2, despite minor updates, is 30 years old and is undergoing a major rewrite.
17:07 thd kados: No one was satisfied so the committee working on the rewrite scrapped their proposals last year and started over again :)
17:08 thd kados: rule simplification is one major goal.
17:10 thd kados: AACR rewrite could drive some major changes for MARC but there is a chicken and egg problem, as well as the legacy records and systems problem.
17:12 thd kados: unfortunately, the radicals who understand well how evil MARC can be do not sit on that committee.
17:23 kados thd: 006 is listed as 'repeatable' does that mean the tag or the subfield?
17:23 thd kados: 008 needs a blank option for positions that are optional at minimal level cataloguing such as BOOKS 008/31 for index present. Some cataloguers are in too much of hurry to bother to encode that position or others when the standard does not require it to be encoded.
17:24 thd kados: '@' subfields are not real subfields and therefore only the field itself can be repeatable.
17:26 thd kados: '@' subfields are a hack for Koha to get around an issue where MARC was attempting to conserve every byte on mid-sixties computer systems.
17:29 thd kados: Otherwise the '@' subfield hack ought to have been part of the original MARC specification to preserve the record hierarchy when more verbose formats like XML had not been invented.
17:36 kados thd: OK ... 006 should be done
17:36 kados thd: I'll add a blank to 008/31
17:36 kados thd: actually ... no blank is specified in the standard
17:36 kados thd: you sure that's ok ?
17:38 thd kados: blank is not specified but filling it is optional and that is certainly not the only one.
17:39 kados ok
17:39 thd kados: everyone should fill it but not everyone will.
17:39 kados thd: can you recommend defaults to me?
17:39 kados for 008 and 006
17:40 kados thd: here are the current 008 defaults:
17:40 kados " s xxu g eng "
17:41 kados here are the current 006 defaults:
17:41 kados "a "
17:41 kados thd: should every value have a 'blank' option?
17:43 thd kados: only positions which are optional for the cataloguing level should have a blank option where one is not explicitly provided in the form of no attempt to catalogue.
17:45 thd kados: only the full documentation lists mandatory and optional elements of the record.
17:47 thd kados: There is obviously an inconsistency between the explicit provision of a no attempt to code value and another position having no such value yet being optional.
17:48 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl
17:48 thd kados: Design by many hands over time has led to inconsistancies.
17:48 kados thd: I changed the '...' to [values]
17:48 kados thd: tell me what you think
17:49 kados thd: should we work on 007?
17:49 kados thd: I'm not sure what to do about the defaults for 008 and 006 ...
17:50 thd kados: 007 is the most fun.
17:50 thd kados: especially cartographic material
17:51 thd kados: and works of art.
17:51 kados heh
17:51 kados I'm reading through it now
17:52 thd kados: museums do not even have anything as sophisticated as MARC to use and record exchange between museums is very poor because they have no standard.
17:53 thd kados: They should just adopt MARC and pressure enhancements and for a change to XML.
17:53 kados thd: what's the values in 007 for 'book' ?
17:54 kados thd: text?
17:54 thd yes
17:55 kados so all I need to do is :
17:55 kados 00 and 01
17:55 kados :-)
17:55 kados for today :-)
17:58 thd kados: 007 is too easy for books
17:58 thd kados: 008 defaults
18:00 thd kados 08/00-05 is supposed to be generated only once.
18:00 kados right
18:00 kados that makes sense
18:00 kados I'll have to ask paul whether our plugins can do that
18:00 thd kados: not regenerated every time someone edits 008 or the record as a whole.
18:00 kados yep
18:01 thd kados: It would be much easier if the frameworks allowed for dividing fixed fields into discrete functional parts.
18:02 thd kados: Each subpart could have its own subpart plugin.
18:05 thd kados: 008/06 should probably be 's' although 't' runs a close second.
18:08 thd kados: however 008/06 is optional for minimal level records so it so defaulting to blank should be considered which greatly eases the next few positions.
18:09 kados thd: ok ... 007 done for 'BOOK'
18:10 kados thd: in your opinion, should we have a separate framework for each materials designation?
18:10 thd kados:so make 008/06,07-10,11-14 all blank by default for minimal level records.
18:11 kados ok
18:11 thd kados: yes there should be a separate framework for each.
18:11 kados we need hotkeys too
18:12 thd kados: however, ideally in the long term you would change some important value in a control field and the whole framework would change with all the data.
18:13 thd kados: The frameworks are not that flexible yet but that should be the longterm goal.
18:14 kados thd: ok ... 06, 7-10,11-14 have defaults set to blank
18:14 kados in 008
18:15 thd kados: so if you discovered that your book was actually a serial or whatever everything would change by changing a value in the leader.
18:15 kados right now you'd have to select a new framework and start over i think
18:16 thd kados: similarly upgrade your framework by changing from minimal to nations level cataloguing by changing that in the leader etc.
18:16 thd kados: yes, now it requires separate frameworks.
18:17 thd kados: there should be an easy way to submit the old values to a new framework if there is a need for the cataloguer to change frameworks.
18:18 thd kados: This would be something less than the ultimate goal but a workaround for that basic need.
18:20 thd kados: Of course if there is no workaround, the incentive to achieve the ultimate goal will be greater :)
18:20 thd back to 008
18:26 thd kados:A mistake earlier, make 008/06,07-10,11-14 all '|' for no attempt to code by default for minimal level records.
18:28 thd kados: If there is a no attempt to code option provided then there should not be a blank option unless blank happens to be the code used for no attempt to code.
18:30 kados thd: sorry ... I don't quite understand
18:30 kados thd: that happend on koha.liblime.com?
18:32 Jo Can one of you Katipo guys please give me the url for the koha test site .... so I can bookmark it! I know the login name and password but can't find the link ....
18:32 thd kados: 008/15-17 has xxu and that is good for the US but you should have the top 20 counties for Koha use at least in a selection list.
18:33 russ Jo you there?
18:33 Jo yep
18:34 thd kados: you understood that for dates in 008 '|' means no attempt to code.
18:35 thd kados: no attempt to code is an explicit option provided in the standard and acceptable for minimal level records.
18:35 kados thd: got hour,min,sec working for 005
18:35 kados :-)
18:35 kados thd: is it | or !?
18:36 thd kados: the piping symbol
18:36 kados http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/Bib0438.htm
18:36 kados you mean 008/07-10 ?
18:36 kados or other dates?
18:37 thd kados: that is a different case where blank might be the official option for no attempt to code often designated as # in documentation for clarity.
18:37 kados I don't quite understand what you're telling me to do
18:39 thd kados: 008/07-14 even uses fill characters with dates but make all of 008/06-14 filled with '|' in each position.
18:40 thd s/position/position by default/
18:42 kados thd: on koha.liblime.com?
18:42 kados thd: or somewhere else?
18:42 kados thd: are you telling me to make koha.liblime.com do that?
18:42 kados thd: or are you complaining that it is? :-)
18:44 thd kados: I have not looked I am merely describing what should be a minimal level record default for MARC 21 wherever.
18:45 thd kados: previously I had said blank for 008/06-14 but that was mistaken. Each of those positions should be the piping symbol instead of blanks.
18:47 thd kados: that is different from a case where blank designated by # in the documentation has been explicitly provided for the same purpose.
18:49 thd kados: that is also different from the case of index present in BOOKS 008/31 where the documentation allows no coding for minimal level records but does not explicitly provide a no attempt to code designation symbol.
18:50 kados thd: where are you getting this information?
18:50 thd kados: the designation symbol must necessarily be blank when not explicitly provided for no attempt to code if no attempt to code is allowed.
18:52 thd kdos: The complete MARC manual has this optional and mandatory; national and minimal information.
18:54 thd kados: An expensive looseleaf binder subscription service; a subscription service that used to be on CD ROM, Catalogers Desktop; now an online subscription service; or wait for it ...
18:57 thd kados: your taxes paid for it, as a product of your government it is in the public domain in the US by law, although LC has copyright; therefore;
18:58 thd kados: TLC has it repackaged for you at no charge with some occasional circulars about code interpretation and usage advice missing.
18:59 thd kados: http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/CRS0000.htm
19:00 thd kados: you knew all that already, but there is a lot of content there.
19:01 thd kados: The equivalent detail for UNIMARC, when it exists, requires paying money.
19:03 thd kados: The problem with ISO and IFLA funding is not the creature of any one government and therefore must go begging for money and charging for even standards publications.
19:04 thd kados: ISO standards are very expensive :(
19:06 thd s/not the creature/that ISO and IFLA are not the creatures/
19:07 thd kados: back to 008
19:15 thd kados: 008/18-21 should be '|' in each position for no attempt to code as it is optional for minimal level records. There should be a separate selection list with the same content unless you can think of a better way to group them.
19:17 thd s/separate selection list/separate selection list for each of those positions/
19:19 thd kados: 008/22 again '|' for no attempt to code as optional at the minimal level.
19:21 thd kados: 008/23 is optional at the minimal record level but blank for none of the above is a safe default for most cases.
19:26 thd kados: I was wrong about the value filling if encoded for 008/18-21. The default should be '|' in each position for no attempt to code as it is optional for minimal level records.
19:27 kados thd: could you break that down into an actual string for me?
19:27 kados for 008, 006, etc.
19:27 kados I'm too tired to interperate it atm
19:28 thd kados: When values are actually chosen for 008/18-21 the have to be sorted in alphabetical order.
19:29 thd kados: I will proceed to a string.
19:29 kados thx
19:31 thd kados: take your great grandmother's spicy soup remedy. It may not cure you but it will help :)
19:33 thd kados: sleep is also good :)
19:34 kados heh
19:34 thd owen: are you still there?
19:34 owen yes
19:36 thd which template controls marc_subfields_structure.pl if it is not auth_subfields_structure.tmpl?
19:37 owen parameters/marc_subfields_structure.tmpl
19:38 thd owen: is that the same in the default templates?
19:39 owen It's controlled by the script, so yes: get_template_and_user({template_name => "parameters/marc_subfields_structure.tmpl"
19:41 kados owen: btw: I've been meaning to mention
19:41 kados owen: you can create a 'NPL' sys pref
19:41 kados owen: JUST on the NPL box
19:41 kados owen: then enclose all those NPL-specific tags (or exclude) based on that pref
19:42 kados so long as you enclose with the requisite <TMPL_IF clauses
19:42 kados it won't affect any off the other systems using the template
19:42 thd owen: thank you. They shared so much I thought they must be the same and did not check further. I have fixed a small bug now.
19:44 thd own: small bug had been confusing me producing extra data entry mistakes when I would forget what it should read. All is fine now and I will commit it.
19:56 owen kados: it's probably not worth the effort. I should probably just cut that stuff out and rely on my own record-keeping to keep track of changes.
19:57 owen We've already accomodated many of the old hacks.
20:13 thd kados: I see what was prompting your question about '|' usage for no attempt to code.
20:13 kados :-)
20:15 thd kados: That value is absent from the the old complete MARC reference at TLC but it is present in the up to date concise documentation at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ecbd008s.html .
20:18 kados thd: I think this paragraph:
20:18 kados The data elements are positionally-defined. Character positions that are not defined contain a blank (#). All defined character positions must contain a defined code; for some field 008 positions, this may be the fill character (|). The fill character may be used (in certain character positions) when a cataloging organization makes no attempt to code the character position. The fill character is not allowed in field 008 positions 00-05 (Date entered on file). Its use
20:19 kados means that my 008 is invalid :-)
20:19 kados because I dont' change the meaning of position 23/29 depending on the 008 config
20:25 thd kados: It seems that some of my suggested defaults may be off by that paragraph you quoted. At least my suggestions are partly disparaged usage.
20:26 thd kados: I should read the introduction to documentation more often.
20:28 kados we need a more dynamic selection box
20:28 thd kados: We would need a mechanism for changing frameworks with the same data in order to change a framework when editing as opposed to creating an original record.
20:29 thd kados: JavaScript can give you an endlessly dynamic selection box.
20:31 kados yep
20:31 kados don't have the time to program that now though :-)
20:31 kados or the energy :/
20:32 kados hopefully this will be enough to satisfy the elementary school catalogers I'm meeting with tomorrow :-)
20:34 thd kados: yet the issue they are referring to with regard to 008/23 or 29 is already taken care of by the framework.
20:36 kados thd: btw: don't know if you get the journal 'American Libraries', but LibLime is mentioned in a article in the Feb issue
20:36 kados pg 43
20:36 thd kados: they simply mean that 008/23 is used for form of item for books while 008/29 is used for form of item for maps and neither is used for computer files.
20:38 thd kados: my subscription lapsed long ago when I found no justification for my ALA membership fee.
20:43 thd kados: computer files have type of item in 008/26 but that is not necessarily form of item. I bothered myself a great degree by that inconsistency a year and a half ago when I was putting all this into Zope.
20:52 thd kados: I guess that is the logical equivalent for computer files but except for byte conservation there should be much more consistency between the coding of different material types.
21:11 thd kados: your spiffy new default for BOOKS 008 minimal level records for cataloguing done in the US is as follows. # means blank.
21:11 thd kados: ######t########xxu|||||#||||#00|#0#eng#d
21:13 thd kados: Of course, 08/00-05 need filling with the correct originating value.
21:15 thd kados: It should not be difficult to capture what is already there in the field for 008/00-05.
21:20 thd kados: never mind for merely 008/00-05. Editing should use all values already present and not reset them to a new default.
21:35 thd kados: the equivalent for BOOKS 006 would be a|||||#||||#00|#0#
21:41 thd kados: sorry small mistake for no double checking. It seemed wrong intuitively.
21:42 thd kados: BOOKS 008 ######t########xxu|||||r||||#00|#0#eng#d
21:44 thd kados: similarly BOOKS 007 a|||||r||||#00|#0#
21:45 thd s/007/006/
21:46 thd kados: explicitly similarly BOOKS 006 a|||||r||||#00|#0#
21:47 thd kados: similarly BOOKS 007 ta
22:55 kados thd: those # should be spaces right?
22:55 thd kados: yes spaces
22:56 kados ok ... I'm gonna add those defaults now
22:56 thd kados: although 008/00-05 should have a date.
22:56 kados thd: and it should keep the original, yes, I know
22:56 kados thd: that should be pretty easy
23:05 kados thd: i'm guessing that default values shouldn't be an option ... they should just be the defaults if nothing is selected, right?
23:06 kados thd: esp the | ?
23:07 thd kados: the '|' should be selectable in the selection list.
23:08 thd kados: wherever they are applicable.
23:08 kados ok
23:08 thd kados: I removed the deprecated ones.
23:09 kados cool
23:10 thd kados: The default intranet templates are currently the only ones supporting moving the relative positions of subfields within the editor.
23:12 kados thd: really? I didn't know such a feature existed
23:12 kados I'll have to check it out
23:12 thd kados: Arranging subfield order when adding new records or modifying existing records is necessary to create some types of valid records.
23:12 kados right
23:13 thd kados: In CVS little arrows move subfield order up the list within the field.
23:14 thd kados: paul has stated that motion will be bidirectional by 2.26 release.
23:14 chris one more . thd :)
23:14 chris 2.2.6
23:14 chris its only the 6th 2.2 release :)
23:15 thd kados: unidirectional is still sufficient for creating valid records if you click a little more
23:17 chris i think ive got it so it actually does something now :)
23:17 thd chris: yes, 2.2.6. It is good that it will finally be possible to create valid MARC records by the sixth 2.2 release.
23:20 kados thd: ok ... check my 006 field
23:22 thd kados: It has a repeatable "@' control subfield. Only the field itself should be repeatable.
23:23 kados ok
23:23 kados thd: doesn't look like repeatable subfield to me
23:23 thd kados: looks good.
23:24 kados I see ... it says (R)
23:24 thd kados: you are right it was the verbose name.
23:25 kados thd: for position 22 in 008, a space is listed as Unknown or not specified
23:25 thd kados: my frameworks have control filed or fixed position control field as the names for '@' subfields.
23:26 kados thd: can you confirm that it should be instead a | ?
23:26 kados or in addition to?
23:26 kados thd: ahh ... that's probably a better name
23:27 kados thd: which is which?
23:30 thd kados: the introduction to the concise manual for 008 states which is more explicit. The designation should be 'No attempt to code' for '|' you have it as 'unknown' where I have noticed.
23:31 thd kados: there is a difference between unknown and no attempt to code.
23:32 thd kados: I think that difference is absent in historical usage for some earlier version of the standard.
23:33 kados thd: ok ... check my 008 now
23:33 kados thd: I guess the question is, for original cataloging, is there anything wrong with this framework (for Book Monograph)?
23:33 kados can we generate a truly valid MARC record?
23:34 kados (asside from MARC holdings)
23:37 thd kados: 008/22 is missing the '|' for no attempt to code. Only the ambiguous unknown or no attempt to code is present.
23:37 thd s/ambiguous/# ambiguous/
23:38 thd s/# ambiguous/ambiguous #/
23:39 kados thd: see my question above
23:39 kados 'not specified' sounds like 'the cataloger didn't bother to look'
23:39 kados to me
23:39 kados unless you have a more recent reference
23:41 thd kados: '|' no attempt to code is better and should be an option. Unknown can mean that it was not possible to determine satisfactorily from the material.
23:41 kados ok
23:42 thd kados: so unknown can mean that the cataloguer did bother but was unsuccessful
23:43 thd kados: no attempt to code informs means clearly that the cataloguer did not have enough time or maybe had no direct access to the material.
23:43 kados thd: ok ... done
23:46 thd kados: you have an exclamation mark instead of a piping symbol as an option in 008/23
23:47 thd s/instead of/in addition to/
23:48 thd kados: how are you planning to derive 008/24-27?
23:50 kados thd: they should be able to be derived from other parts of the MARC record
23:50 kados I won't tackle that problem until i can get the plugins doing that
23:50 kados (ie getting stuff from other parts of the record)
23:51 thd kados: yes, no need to code things twice.
23:52 thd kados: I mean no need for the cataloguer to encode things twice or even three times for some cases.
23:55 kados right
23:57 teknotus1 How can I tell if the z3950 deamon started correctly?
23:57 thd kados: I like it. I like it a lot.
23:58 kados thd: cool
23:58 kados teknotus1: well for one thing, you should be able to find stuff using the Z3950 client :-)
23:58 kados teknotus1: also:
23:58 kados ps aux |grep z3950
23:58 thd kados: we can now create valid records provide MARC::Record is managing the record size part of the leader.
23:58 kados that will at least tell you if it's running
23:58 kados thd: yep
23:59 kados thd: I'm fairly certain that it does
00:00 teknotus1 kados I tried that
00:00 teknotus1 Nothing
00:00 teknotus1 What user should it run as
00:00 thd kados: Karen Coyle had told me that she we not the most well informed about record editors but she only knew of one new one from Spain or in Spanish that had selection options for coded data fields.
00:01 thd teknotus1: Sorry, I have neglected you.
00:01 teknotus1 Do I use deamon-launch, or deamon-shell?
00:02 thd teknotus1: It will run as your Apache user. www-data by default on a Debian system.
00:03 thd teknotus1: one of those calls the other and kados remembers correctly.
00:03 teknotus1 But if I am manually launching to test it out do I start it as root?
00:04 thd teknotus1: start it as root and then it will su to the proper user.
00:05 kados thd: cool!
00:05 kados thd: I assume that's a good thing
00:06 thd kados: It was a generation ahead of other MARC record editors but lacked what you have been working on for the MARC 21 side.
00:07 thd kados: The frameworks do need amplification for things that are now awkward.
00:08 kados thd: of course, I'm viewing this as a proof-of-concept for a client that wanted anal-retentive MARC compliance in the editor
00:08 kados thd: I think before I spend too much more time on it I'll need to find one of those
00:08 kados thd: so they can sponsor the complete set of frameworks
00:09 thd kados: It would certainly be time consuming to do it right.
00:10 thd kados: However, the record editor could be disintegrated from Koha and used as a Trojan horse into other systems.
00:13 thd kados: paul had written to koha-devel about that with an API long ago and I applauded the support it had for one part of the old email message I will send you after my default framework is complete.
00:14 teknotus1 Q : select distinct m1.bibid from biblio,biblioitems,marc_biblio,marc_subfield_table as m1 where bib
00:14 teknotus1 lio.biblionumber=marc_biblio.biblionumber and biblio.biblionumber=biblioitems.biblionumber and m1.bi
00:15 teknotus1 bid=marc_biblio.bibid and (m1.subfieldvalue like '0596000278%' and concat(m1.tag,m1.subfieldcode) in
00:15 teknotus1 ('020a')) order by biblio.title ASC at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules/C4/SearchMarc.pm line 288.
00:15 teknotus1 That was in the error log just after trying to do a search
00:16 thd teknotus1: what was in the Z39.50 popup?
00:17 teknotus1 Search results nothing found
00:17 teknotus1 The only place I found to do a search is from adding a new book.
00:17 teknotus1 Still ?? requests to go
00:19 teknotus1 It doesn't even seem like an error message. It looks like an SQL query.
00:20 teknotus1 Oh I have debian packages for the three perl modules that aren't in debian that koha needs if anybody wants them.
00:21 teknotus1 I'm using koha-2.2.5
00:21 thd teknotus1: someone will want them and the build scripts
00:26 thd teknotus1: grab the latest search.pl for rel_2_2 from CVS http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewcvs/*checkout*/koha/z3950/search.pl?rev=1.3.2.6&root=koha
00:33 teknotus1 Where do I put it. I see multiple search.pl's
00:34 teknotus1 An opac one, and an intranet one
00:37 thd teknotus1: Replace the file in /usr/local/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/z3950/search.pl or wherever you put z3950/search.pl . Be cerain to preserve teh proper permissions from the old search.pl file.
00:38 thd teknotus1: proper permissions should be read and execute for the Apache user.
00:43 teknotus1 It seems to have the same permissions
00:44 teknotus1 I don't get a popup any more.
00:46 thd teknotus1: Is the popup open in another window?
00:46 teknotus1 Oh Ok
00:46 teknotus1 I guess it was loading in the old window that was burried
00:48 teknotus1 DBD::mysql::st execute failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL serv
00:48 teknotus1 er version for the right syntax to use near '' at line 1 at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules/C4/Breeding.pm line 167.
00:50 teknotus1 There are a few fetch without execute errors.
00:54 thd teknotus1: Does your MARC Check pass OK?
00:54 teknotus1 yep
01:00 thd teknotus1: You should now have the promised message from me in your gmail box.
01:05 teknotus1 I don't understand the environment variables that it says it needs in the email
01:09 teknotus1 PERL5LIB="/usr/local/koha/intranet/modules" KOHA_CONF="/etc/koha.conf" ../intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/z3950-daemon-launch.sh
01:09 teknotus1 I just launched it like that
01:10 thd teknotus1: That looks right but were the variables both set and exported?
01:11 thd teknotus: What shell is root running?
01:13 teknotus1 bash
01:14 teknotus1 I just killed the deamon, made sure the environment was set, and restarted it to no effect
01:16 thd teknotus: What do you have from env | grep PERL5LIB and env | grep KOHA_CONF when executed by root?
01:18 thd kados: Do you mean Stephen or Steven?
01:18 teknotus1 freekbox3:/usr/local/koha/log# env | grep PERL5LIB
01:18 teknotus1 PERL5LIB=/usr/local/koha/intranet/modules
01:18 teknotus1 freekbox3:/usr/local/koha/log# env | grep KOHA_CONF
01:18 teknotus1 KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha.conf
01:20 teknotus1 Is there something I could edit into the search so that logs more stuff, and makes it easier to track down what is broken?
01:20 kados thd: Steven
01:20 thd tektotus1: is the Z39.50 daemon options file set correctly?
01:20 kados thd: have you read his reply to me?
01:20 chris did he do an off list reply?
01:20 kados chris: dont' think so
01:21 chris ahh that might be why i havent seen it
01:21 teknotus1 thd: it exactly matches the one in the email
01:21 kados shoot ... he did
01:21 kados damn it
01:21 chris he did that too me too
01:22 teknotus1 thd: also it seems to be right.
01:23 chris lol you used my quote
01:24 kados yea :-)
01:24 kados hope it makes sense
01:26 thd teknotus1: what are the permissions you have for z3950-daemon-options?
01:26 chris i think thats a great reply
01:26 kados chris: do you know of a way I can resend a message in mutt without 'forwarding' it or 'replying'?
01:26 kados chris: I have sent messages stored in Mail/sent
01:27 chris bounce
01:27 chris b for bounce
01:27 teknotus1 rwxr-xr-x 1 www-data www-data 174 2006-02-22 18:46 intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/z3950-daemon-options
01:28 kados thx
01:30 thd teknotus1: kados: what does the z39.50 daemon appear as in ps?
01:31 thd kados: what does the z39.50 daemon appear as in ps?
01:31 kados thd:
01:31 kados root 15511 0.0 0.2 4328 1076 pts/2 S 09:12 0:00 su -s /bin/sh -c /var/www/liblime.com/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/z3950-daemon-shell.sh - apacheapache 15512 0.1 1.8 16072 9188 pts/2 S 09:12 0:43 /usr/bin/perl /var/www/liblime.com/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/processz3950queue /var/www/liblime.com/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/logapache 16357 0.0 0.0 0 0 pts/2 Z 10:40 0:00 [processz3950que] <defunct>apache
01:31 teknotus1 www-data 4229 0.0 3.4 13668 8828 pts/2 S 20:12 0:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/processz3950queue /usr/local/koha/log
01:34 kados russ: re: sleep ... I go in spurts ... sometimes I sleep way too much, sometimes hardly at all
01:34 thd teknotus1: try ps aux | grep z3950
01:36 teknotus1 www-data 4229 0.0 3.4 13668 8828 pts/2 S 20:12 0:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon
01:37 teknotus1 /processz3950queue /usr/local/koha/log
01:37 teknotus1 Is it also supposed to have that z3950-deamon-shell.sh in there?
01:38 kados well ... that's how you start it :-)
01:38 teknotus1 I ran deamon-launch
01:42 teknotus1 I think I'm about ready to give up for the night.
01:43 teknotus1 Thanks for all the help.
01:45 thd kados: paul mentioned a disremembered problem with MARC record export in Koha. He seemed to 'know' that it was there despite my inability to notice it on a superficial record examination.
01:46 thd kados: paul could not remember the exact nature of the problem but he should know because he wrote the code.
01:46 thd kados: there is a caution in the templates about MARC record export.
01:47 thd kados: He invited me to open a bug report but I never did open a bug report for a bug that I could not identify.
01:48 thd kados: Clearly if the problem is real t will need to be addressed for migration to Koha 3.x.
01:53 kados thd: I don't think it's a problem
01:53 kados thd: I've exported stuff from Koha and it looks fine
01:55 thd kados: so did I but paul still seemed to think that there was a hidden problem that he knew but could not remember well enough to specify when I asked him about the warning.
01:56 kados there may be a sync problem with exporting the correct status information
01:56 kados I'm sure if there is a problem Steven will find it :-)
01:57 kados hmmm, for one thing, it doesn't seem to be prompting for a file download
01:58 kados i seem to remember something about specifying a filetype to alert the browser
01:58 thd kados: yes, well there are still very many problems until you have the complete and accurate framework that I am going back to now
01:58 kados chris: do you know what to do about that?
01:58 kados thd: not for storage
01:58 kados thd: only for original cataloging
01:58 kados thd: not for export either
01:58 kados thd: our problems with MARC in 2.2 are creating the MARC and using the MARC
01:59 kados thd: ie, using all the semantic info encoded in it
01:59 kados thd: rather than just a few basic 1-1 mappings
02:00 thd kados: editing an existing MARC record with an incomplete framework is a problem as well as adding items with an incomplete framework.
02:00 kados thd: right
02:01 kados thd: that's easily addressed with the proper combo of plugins and field definitions
02:01 thd kados: you should fix the long broken function that fills the the item call number using the system preference that you had asked about.
02:02 kados thd: which one is that?
02:02 kados thd: expand on it a bit ...
02:03 thd kados: It should be more intelligent so as to fill the item call number using both the classification and cutter subfields.
02:04 thd kados: the one where the preference description mistakenly identifies UNIMARC exclusively.
02:04 kados hmmm
02:04 thd kados: It has been broken since at least Koha 2.2.3.
02:05 thd kados: I do not know when it was working.
02:06 thd kados: oops maybe I am confused about what is broken sorry.
02:07 thd kados: That works but does need the cutter number as well.
02:08 thd kados: autogeneration of barcode numbers is broken. I guess no one actually uses barcode autogeneration to fill the item field automatically.
02:09 thd kados: yes that could function similarly to item call number filling.
02:11 kados thd: yikes
02:11 kados thd: I think the | is splitting things up into separate subfields
02:11 kados thd: bad news
02:12 thd kados: so automatic call number filling is missing the provision to create a number from 082 $a as well as $b if using DDC. Currently only 082 $a would be filled automatically.
02:12 thd kados: oops :-)
02:13 kados I hope I can find a quick workaround for that
02:13 kados otherwise steven's gonna have a field day :-)
02:13 thd kados: Quoting needed somewhere.
02:14 thd Quoting needed many somewheres most likely.
02:15 thd kados: a quick fix would be to change all the piping symbols to blanks for now.
02:16 thd kados: there is plenty for Steven to find in the bibliographic framework if he looks.
02:17 kados yea
02:17 thd kados: I will send you what I have completed tomorrow morning.
02:18 thd kados: have you committed the plugins.
02:18 thd ?
02:20 kados thd: no
02:20 kados thd: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=9508
02:20 kados thd: why are the 008's displaying so strangely
02:23 thd kados: would you not think that was the effect of the piping symbol?
02:24 kados thd: I think I remember it happening before
02:25 thd kados: The piping symbol is also used as a subfield separator when adding repeated subfields to the original Koha record columns.
02:25 kados yea, so we need to fix that asap
02:25 kados certainly before 2.2.6
02:25 kados should be easy, bet paul could do it in like 2 secs
02:25 thd kados: paul knows where the code is actually located.
02:27 thd kados: Editing your own program is easy. Deciphering someone else's insufficiently commented code can take time.
02:29 thd kados: I do know where some of that code is. I had to understand how repeated subfields were being stored for a fix that no longer works because the bug has been moved to a different location.
02:30 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/MARCdetail.pl?bib=23710
02:30 kados thd: look for flaws in that test record
02:31 thd kados: paul does have a big comment in some recent changes to Biblio.pm about strange subfield display ordering problems that he was having trouble squashing so he wrote a very dirty workaround.
02:35 thd kados: you should look at how that record is stored in the MARC tables to see if it was ever stored correctly.
02:36 kados thd: it looks right to me
02:36 thd kados: you need to distinguish between mere display problems and problems that go deeper.
02:36 kados thd: why would I need to look in the tables?
02:36 kados thd: sure ... but i don't see any display problems with that test
02:36 kados thd: do you?
02:36 thd kdaos: to see how the record is actually stored.
02:39 thd kados: No, I have no display problems with the record itself. I only have minor display problems for the functions on the far right that distracted me from seeing that the record looks fine.
02:40 kados thd: yea
02:40 thd kados: had you changed the piping symbols to blanks for that record?
02:40 kados thd: did I hear correctly that the default template now allows reording subfields?
02:40 kados thd: well ... read you anyway :-)
02:40 kados thd: I wonder what it would take to get the NPL one to do that
02:41 kados thd: and I wonder what it would be used for
02:42 kados thd: that's strictly on the addbiblio.pl page right?
02:42 thd kados: the record editor otherwise only allows filling subfields in alphabetic order.
02:43 thd kados: many fields can require non-alphabetic order if the material being catalogued needs it.
02:43 kados http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl
02:44 kados thd: I don't think that's quite ready for production
02:44 kados thd: it seems to be swapping subfield order randomly
02:44 kados thd: let me know if it works as you expect it to
02:45 thd kados: maybe it is not ready I did not look closely but did see that something happened.
02:47 thd kados: see examples in related bug 997 for why it is needed. Field reordering is also needed but that is of lesser importance.
02:47 kados thd: it should restrain movement to within a single tag right?
02:48 thd kados: maybe the arrows are too powerful :)
02:48 kados thd: is this still true:
02:48 kados " the item to be catalogued
02:48 kados differs from the Koha default subfield order. Even when the correct subfield
02:48 kados order is imported from an external record, the Koha MARC framework has no means
02:48 kados to preserve the order of subfields in data storage when the order differs from
02:48 kados the Koha default order."
02:52 thd kados: Bug 997 has been largely fixed.
02:53 thd kados: There are corollary bugs relating to the record editor.
02:54 thd kados: Actually the editor does not allow the creation of additional repeated subfields in the record editor, even experimentally.
02:56 thd kados: Subfield repeatability is ignored in the record editor even when present in the framework but I think paul plans to include it for 2.2.6.
03:01 thd kados: bug 997 record storage issues were always false when bulkmarcimport.pl was used and items were added externally as the comment I added to the bug indicates.
03:04 kados thd: so I can't currently create multiple repeated subfields in a single tag?
03:05 kados thd: what's an example of a field that should have repeatable subfields?
03:05 thd kados: no but you can designate repeatability in the framework for the record editor to use when that is fixed.
03:06 thd kados: most of them but not all material needs the repeatability when cataloguing.
03:08 kados thd: I'm guessing that's more important that being able to reorder subfields
03:08 thd kados: the examples I gave in bug 997 generally have both need subfield repeatability and non-alphabetic ordering to catalogue.
03:10 thd kados: It is hard to say which is more important since they both often function together.
03:10 kados right
03:12 thd kados: I think that paul plans to have both working for 2.2.6. If the frameworks are there to take advantage of them all will be well in the land :)
03:14 thd kados: Originally, he had not planned them until 3.0 but he has at least one customer that needed that bug fix sooner.
03:28 kados thd: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl
03:28 kados thd: got the subfield ordering to work better
03:28 kados thd: (only in the '1' tab for now)
03:29 kados thd: give it a shot and tell me what you think
03:33 kados it won't allow you to cross the tag boundry
03:33 kados not actually functional yet either
03:33 kados just moves the values around
03:34 kados should be fairly trivial to move elements around around it though
03:34 thd kados: I had originally noticed the arrows and that something changed when pressing on them in the default template, however, one thing that I had not noticed at the time was that the labels, etc. do not change.
03:34 kados thd: yet :-)
03:36 thd kados: yes, I also imagined subfield + - signs that were not there.
03:37 thd were not there yet :-)
03:41 kados right :-)
03:46 kados thd: ok ... labels now switching too
03:47 kados thd: had to play with them a bit though
03:47 kados thd: might not be ideal
03:47 kados thd: but I figure we can style it later
03:47 kados also it's still not functional, meaning they still retain their original values on submit
04:04 thd kados: In addition to +- signs for subfield repeatability there should be an add more subfields link that brings up a pop-up to add a group of repeatable subfields selected from a checkbox according to a sequence specified in a framework parameter.
04:04 thd kados: Subfield order changing should allow the insertion of any subfield before an already completed subfield. I am uncertain that the example you showed for order changing was heading in that direction for already completed subfields.
04:04 thd kados: actually a pop-up insertion form accessible from a link before and after every subfield is probably easier than moving arrows around. Moving arrows is how it is commonly done in user interfaces but not necessarily the most efficient.
04:10 thd kados: If you do use arrows for moving any completed subfield content should also move.
04:13 thd kados: The issue is not only about creating content from a completely empty record but adding additional in the midst of an already existing record. in the midst of an already existing set of subfields.
05:43 hdl hi
05:43 chris hi hdl
05:43 paul hello world
05:43 kados hi paul
05:43 chris and paul
05:43 hdl hi chris.
05:43 kados paul: just committed a fix that stops | from splitting fixed fields
05:43 paul wow, nobody in bed !
05:44 mason me too!
05:44 chris heh its a party
05:44 kados yea, maybe we should have a meeting
05:44 kados :-)
05:44 hdl chris: did you see my request for some more information about parcel reception ?
05:44 chris ahh yes
05:44 mason me too!
05:44 chris i meatn to answer sorry
05:44 mason me too!
05:44 chris p&p = post and packaging
05:45 paul mason : U2 : nice music for a party :-D
05:45 hdl is P&P so much different from freight ?
05:45 mason im on my 2nd beer...
05:45 mason i wouldnt think so?
05:45 chris no, i think p&p is no longer required
05:45 chris p&p == freight
05:46 hdl OK.
05:46 chris HLT like the freight to be split up over the order
05:46 chris so if you have 10 items, and the freight is 10 francs
05:46 chris its 1 franc per item
05:46 chris so that is used for the replacement cost
05:47 chris does that help?
05:47 hdl Yes.
05:47 paul chris : nobody here uses franc anymore : we use Euro since 3 years now ;-)
05:47 chris oh of course :)
05:47 chris i meant ummm
05:47 chris swiss francs :)
05:47 paul lol
05:47 paul (there are still "pacific francs" if I don't mind)
05:48 chris oh in new calendonia?
05:48 chris and tahiti?
05:48 paul yes.
05:49 chris 2.5 hours to new caledonia from new zealand
05:49 chris (they are advertising holidays there on tv at the moment)
05:49 chris maybe i should go to practice french before i visit france again :)
05:50 si chris: did it help last time?
05:50 si the practice, I mean
05:51 chris a little, i could order a coffee and croissant .. so i could eat breakfast :)
05:52 si and lunch, and dinner
05:52 si what's the french for croissant, then?
05:52 si :-)
05:52 chris :-)
05:52 paul si : it's croissant
05:52 chris i only visited paris for 1 week, most people spoke english better than me :-)
05:53 mason cwah-sont
05:53 si paul: yup, all our best words are pinched from french
05:55 si pox
05:55 chris whoops
06:00 mason ok, ive got to head out kids
06:00 chris night mason
06:02 si excellent, that's that fixed
06:03 mason chris: ive made a bit of progess with the item/ordernum bug
06:03 mason http://koha.hlt.katipo.co.nz/cgi-bin/koha/acqui/acquire.pl?recieve=107316&biblio=92543&bibitem=177098&invoice=3FebBarnesNoble&supplierid=63&gst=&set_barcode=L02342605&catview=yes
06:03 mason the links arnt worksing , and i havent sorted thru what fields arnt needed
06:04 chris good start
06:04 chris ill look more properly tomorrow when my brain isnt so tired :)
06:05 mason i might have a crack later tonite while its fresh in my memory
06:57 thd paul hdl: Do you plan for framework specified subfield repeatability to be useful in the record editor for 2.2.6?
08:50 Paras room need some help
08:51 Paras i have installed koha ... and whe i tried to run.. http://192.168.2.19/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl cannot be executes and throws Internal server error
08:52 Paras error log of opac is
08:52 Paras install_driver(mysql) failed: Can't load '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so'
08:53 Paras help plz
09:49 hdl Paras
09:49 hdl around ?
09:49 hdl Paras: Seems either you don't use mysql or you didn't install DBD::mysql
09:50 hdl Paras: pls tell us more about your OS and installation
10:23 Paras hdl, DBD::mysql is there
10:23 Paras hdl, it's FC3
10:25 hdl /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/
10:25 hdl have you been there ?
10:25 hdl is there mysql.so
10:25 hdl ?
10:25 Paras hdl, it has mysql.bs mysql.so
10:26 hdl is mysql-devel installed ?
10:26 Paras hdl, no
10:26 Paras hdl, do i need it?
10:26 hdl or mysql server ... (I can't remember)
10:26 Paras hdl, mysql-server is there
10:27 Paras hdl, while installtion mysql datbases and tables for koha is successully created
10:28 hdl yes, but this is a Perl DBD::mysql error.
10:28 Paras yes seems so..
10:28 hdl It does not recognize your server.
10:28 Paras [Thu Feb 23 17:23:26 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] Premature end of script headers: opac-main.pl
10:28 Paras [Thu Feb 23 17:23:45 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] (13)Permission denied: exec of '/usr/local/koha/opac/cgi-bin/opac-main.pl' failed
10:28 Paras that is the opac error log
10:29 hdl chmod -R uog+x /usr/local/koha/opac/
10:29 Paras hdl, ok..
10:29 hdl (should be a permission error.
10:30 Paras done.. same problem
10:31 Paras apache runs as apache.apache and the permissions seems ok to me
10:31 hdl Koha file owner must be in apache permission and files with x permiddion.
10:31 hdl cd /usr/local/koha/opac/
10:31 hdl is this wher you installed koha ?
10:31 Paras hdl, yes
10:32 Paras -rwxr-xr-x 1 apache apache 1727 Feb 23 17:02 opac-main.pl
10:32 Paras permissions seems ok
10:35 Paras this is koha-error log
10:35 Paras [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] install_driver(mysql) failed: Can't load '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so' for module DBD::mysql: /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/mysql/mysql.so: failed to map segment from shared object: Permission denied at /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line 230.
10:35 Paras [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] at (eval 5) line 3
10:35 Paras [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] Compilation failed in require at (eval 5) line 3.
10:35 Paras [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] Perhaps a required shared library or dll isn't installed where expected
10:35 Paras [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] at /var/www/html/koha/intranet/modules/C4/Context.pm line 411
10:35 Paras [Mon Feb 20 18:28:52 2006] [error] [client 192.168.2.2] Premature end of script headers: mainpage.pl
10:35 Paras hdl, so what do u think.. DBD::mysql not working?
10:36 hdl there seems to be two problems :
10:36 Paras hdl, ok
10:36 hdl First execute permission.
10:36 hdl then DBD::Mysql.
10:37 Paras hdl, ok
10:37 hdl I would try and reinstall DBD::Mysql.
10:37 Paras hdl, me too.. will do it :)
10:40 Paras hdl, it seems ok with DBD::mysql
10:40 Paras permission problem is still there
10:42 Paras i have change /usr/local/koha to 777 with -R
10:42 Paras same problem