Time Nick Message 10:54 |hdl| Normally, it is Alphabetical order and not numerical one 10:53 |hdl| sorry (was on phone ;) 10:17 kados does it sort correctly? 10:17 kados I have a question about inventory report sorting and LOC 10:16 |hdl| yes kados 10:15 |hdl| morning 10:14 kados |hdl|: are you there still? 10:14 kados morning all 09:49 |hdl| hello 09:03 osmoze hello 07:52 |hdl| sorry. 07:52 |hdl| 2 late. 07:51 |hdl| chris around ? 01:07 thd chris: please consider a response, improvement, rejection, etc. thanks 01:06 chris i havent had time to read it properly and consider my response 01:05 chris the former 01:05 thd chris: is that for lack of time or no opinion? 01:05 chris not at the moment i dont 01:04 thd chris: do you have any comment on this thread http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/koha-devel/2006-02/msg00020.html ? 01:02 vircuser We are off to the land of nod. See u thru the week or the windoze :-) 00:59 vircuser Cool. Thanks a bunch 00:59 chris umm, im guessng EST between 9-5 00:59 vircuser Hours plus from now 00:58 vircuser What would the best time of the day be for them? 00:55 chris usually not this time of the day tho 00:55 chris yep, stephen is often on, as is owen 00:53 vircuser Does anyone here know if anyone from the Ohio library comes on line at all? 00:46 rosa :) 00:45 vircuser i.e. not on-line (NB May be mythical) 00:45 vircuser In the "real world" 00:45 rosa ITRW? 00:43 vircuser Techguy says - I've just been saying the same thing ITRW 00:41 rosa for everyone 00:41 rosa Or you can regard the money you've allocated for the next ten years for license fees to your proprietary supplier as dollars available for investing in making Koha much better 00:39 vircuser Ok. 00:39 chris so much cheaper in the long run, not nessecarily cheaper in the short term, if that makes sense? 00:38 vircuser Ok. Yes 00:37 chris not every year with a license fee :-) 00:37 russ once you have the data in you will need to do some testing to verify the data, and library staff will need training - once again either you can do this yourselves or pay someone 00:37 chris plus you only need to pay for it once 00:36 chris the beauty with Koha, is that it can do exactly what you want it to do, its open source you can change it, or hire someone to change to fit your needs 00:36 chris and then you may want to spend some money building a feature you want, or tweaking some existing feature to work the way you want 00:35 chris but you still have to pay someone(maybe your own staff) to install it, and convert your data 00:35 chris it is 00:35 vircuser Why isn't it necessarily cheaper? I thought it was free. 00:35 rosa Or it's too expensive 00:35 rosa Or will have to wait ages for 00:35 chris Koha isnt nessecarily cheaper 00:34 rosa Bit I do know I can get what I want from Koha, and most librarians I know who use commercial systems get very frustrated asking for customisation they're told they can't have 00:34 vircuser It's one thing to say we could save money, it's another to say we could accomplish the same tasks with the same ease. 00:34 vircuser That's what we really need. 00:33 rosa Nope 00:33 vircuser Have you ever seen a point-by-point comparison between Koha, Sirsi/Dynix, and TLC? 00:33 rosa I'm a librarian 00:33 rosa Hi vircuser 00:32 chris then youll get responses from librarians 00:32 vircuser My trustees have been looking at Sirsi/Dynix and The Library Corporation. 00:32 chris its probably best to post an email to mailing list too 00:32 vircuser Here is one now... 00:32 russ i would say you are enlightened - not stupid :-) 00:32 vircuser I like that answer. Will recommend our librarians join here to discuss it. 00:32 chris its running in lots of public libraries around the world already 00:31 vircuser :-) 00:31 chris not very 00:31 vircuser How stupid are we being? 00:31 vircuser We are thinking of evaluating Koha in our public library. 00:31 chris only the nzers awake at the moment i think 00:31 vircuser Just seeing how awake the support group for Koha is... 00:30 vircuser Hi 17:09 thd slef: yes, I still wait for paul and chris. 17:08 slef thd: that would be possible, but paul should OK it IMO 17:08 thd slef: The installer should also have a warning against MySQL 5 until there is more identifier quoting. 17:06 thd slef: I mean what about filling db_scheme in koha.conf from the installer for 2.2.6 with a warning that only MySQL currently has enough support for a working Koha? 17:02 thd slef: what about supporting db_scheme in koha.conf even for 2.2.6? 17:01 slef this might be related, but I don't understand that part of updatedatabase, so I pass it to paul 17:00 thd yes that was it 17:00 slef lock tables or something else? 17:00 thd slef: there had been a problem with Koha under MySQL 4.1 where the installer did not grant enough privileges to the Koha user for what MySQL 4.1 required. 16:58 slef looks to me more like dangerous coding style in updatedatabase, but I can't tell 16:56 thd slef: That bug is related to normal acquisitions which is not working now, see above. 16:55 slef thd: I am here, looking at that bug. 16:55 thd russ: Is chris there? 16:55 thd slef: are you there? 16:54 thd slef: you could already have code in the installer for supporting db_scheme in koha.conf. 16:51 thd slef: with respect to alternate DB SQL. There is already code in C4::context.pm for a db_scheme value for koha.conf. 16:46 thd slef: however, dangerous bugs should still be expected for many 3.0 features, initially. 16:43 thd slef: normal acquisitions will be fixed for 3.0 16:43 thd slef: chris told me that normal acquisitions is not completely fixed in 2.2.X and will not be, although, they made a special NZ only shortcut for one Katipo library. 16:40 thd slef: last minute recoding of a special modification for mediawiki 16:40 slef just came in today 16:40 slef http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1045 16:39 slef should koha 2.2.5 work with mysql 4.1.0? 16:39 slef which REALLY SUCKS for FSF with "Any Browser" on their pages. (lies!) 16:39 slef thd: aye, the wiki works. The comments system doesn't, unless you use one of a few firefox versions afaict 16:38 thd slef: There is certainly a wiki for commenting on the GPL v3 draft document 16:37 thd slef: I have not checked but everything was recorded to have been posted a week later. 16:36 slef thd: are there proceedings for that conference online yet? 16:36 thd good evening hdl 16:36 hdl good evening folks. 16:36 thd kados: at the GPL 3 conference there was a slide citing a GPL license for Postgres which is still news to me. 16:35 kados good evening hdl 16:35 hdl If meeting is closed, will leave you for a good dinner. :) 16:34 hdl thd: thx for your participation and for your suggestion. Will try to abide by them from now on. 16:34 thd s/DB routines/DB flavour routines/ 16:33 thd s/fi/if/ 16:33 kados yep 16:32 hdl and it is MORE "FSF" compliant. 16:32 thd hdl: fi you read the message carefully and my followup correction you would see that DBM neutrality is impossible with identifier quoting unless there are alternate routines for different DB routines. 16:32 kados postgreSQL++ 16:32 hdl postgreSQL seems to be now a VERY good DBM 16:32 slef I think a few DBMSes will be able to match mysql's features. 16:31 kados yep 16:31 hdl I think if there is an international dev meeting, we can speak and deal with this problem more deeper. 16:31 kados anything else to discuss today? 16:31 kados I think it should be noted, and probably sumarized for the coding guidelines 16:31 kados ok ... so thd if you have time to work on it, great! 16:30 hdl I have no clear answer. 16:30 hdl BUT we must be cautious and not limit ourselves too much with a good will to be DBM independant. 16:29 hdl That's why I thought that using too much Mysql constriants could be annoying. 16:29 slef thd: sounds good. Nothing to add from me, but no time to work on it here right now. 16:28 hdl I agree with you. Could be a good point to be DBM independant. 16:27 kados http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/koha-devel/2006-02/msg00020.html 16:27 thd hdl: I will find the link now 16:26 hdl Remember I am not on my machine. 16:26 hdl thd: not suer I saw this. 16:26 hdl kados: no other point. 16:26 kados thd: sure 16:26 thd kados: we could ask hdl and slef about my koha-devel post 16:26 hdl thd: installing a mod_perl unsafe version at a customer is quite clumsy. 16:25 kados if not, I'll close the meeting 16:25 thd hdl: DAMNED? 16:25 kados any other news? 16:24 hdl DAMNED 16:24 kados so perhaps we should backport what he does to 2.2.6 16:24 kados but chris will be working on this problem in 3.0 very soon 16:24 kados so I'm not sure where the problems are 16:24 kados I didn't do any tracing 16:24 hdl MANY MANY mem leaks indeed. 16:23 kados it will definitely cause data to be incorrect 16:23 hdl and what prevented intranet to be mod_perl safe. 16:23 kados but there are memory leaks I suspect 16:23 kados when I was attempting it 16:23 kados due to the number of errors, I didn't have time 16:23 hdl Did you trace what went wrong in intranet... ? 16:23 kados chris will make the intranet mod_perl safe in 3.0 16:22 kados yes, only the opac is mod_perl safe at this point 16:22 hdl I wasnot aware of this. 16:22 hdl GOSH. 16:22 hdl kados: yes vcould be. 16:22 kados hdl: yes, and determined that the intranet is not mod_perl safe :-) 16:21 kados is to _not_ show item records for certain itemtypes 16:21 hdl kados: Did you test thoroughly mod_perl behavior ? 16:21 kados hdl: one that I have done for some clients 16:21 thd hdl: just as it should be that is fine 16:20 hdl thd: you don't create a new biblio for each serials issue. 16:20 kados thd: I think we'll have to find a solution for displaying such items 16:20 hdl But many items 16:19 hdl thd: It will be since you will only have 1 Title line. 16:19 kados hdl: if so, that's because the intranet is not mod_perl safe 16:19 kados hdl: do you mean you have had problems implementing mod_perl? 16:19 kados slef: mostly talking about news 16:19 kados slef: light meeting today, no chris or paul 16:18 slef hello 16:18 thd hdl: what protects against finding many screenfulls of serial results from a serial title search when serials are itemised? 16:18 kados hey slef 16:18 hdl and virtualshelves function with one of our customer. 16:18 kados could you explain? 16:18 hdl Except I have problems with mod_perl. 16:17 hdl Not from France. 16:17 kados anything else anyone? 16:17 kados ok 16:16 hdl Old behavior won't be changed. 16:16 thd not trivial was not necessarily meant to refer to serial itemisation. 16:16 kados :-) 16:16 hdl of course. 16:16 hdl and in serials. 16:16 kados and in serials? 16:15 hdl Serial number wil be stored in itemnotes. 16:15 kados should be enough 16:15 hdl Not more. 16:15 hdl (barcodes, homebranch and itemcallnumber + status and location) 16:15 hdl But itemization wil be quite simple 16:14 kados I bet ... 16:14 hdl Not so trivial. 16:14 kados hdl: that's good news 16:14 kados yep 16:14 hdl kados: yes 16:14 thd kados: if it is worth doing and not trivial there will be trouble :) 16:14 kados excellent ... for 2.2.6? 16:13 hdl shall give it a try, if i have a little time. 16:13 kados serial itemization++ 16:13 hdl I saw. 16:13 kados I committed some code over the weekend 16:13 hdl I am working on serial itemization 16:13 kados right 16:13 hdl One cannot anticipate until we face pbs. 16:12 kados any other news ? 16:12 kados I never anticipated such trouble getting perl-zoom integrated 16:11 hdl he IS. 16:11 kados paul must be very frustrated! 16:11 kados ok, I hope they can find out the problem soon 16:10 hdl yep sir. 16:10 hdl He sent a-e-mail on the lkoha-zebra list 16:10 kados from index data right? 16:10 hdl paul is waiting for help 16:10 kados right 16:09 hdl But the other one was solved by installing the LATEST hot YAZ 16:09 kados is paul waiting for help, or will he continue to troubleshoot it? 16:09 hdl CQL and config problem 16:09 hdl yes 16:09 kados CQL right? 16:08 hdl but problem 1 stays alive 16:08 kados good ... what was it? 16:08 hdl problem #2 solved 16:08 kados hdl: any news on perl-zoom? 16:06 thd kados: someone from every major timezone? :) 16:06 kados hdl: do you have any idea where paul is with perl-zoom? 16:06 kados right 16:06 hdl Not coming tonight 16:06 kados paul? 16:06 hdl But My other me is loging in. 16:06 kados thd: think we need chris, or russ, or someone from NZ :-) 16:05 hdl I am in Montpellier at my parents :) 16:05 hdl sorry to be late 16:05 thd kados: Does hdl make a quorum? 16:05 kados s/way/wait/ 16:05 kados guess we'll way a bit, if chris or anyone at katipo shows up we could have at least some status reports 16:04 hdl hi kados. 16:04 kados hi hdl 16:04 kados we don't seem to have quorum, so I think we're gonna have to postpone the meeting 16:03 sanspach too busy to keep up; but that's normal 16:03 kados how's it going? 16:03 sanspach hi 16:03 kados hey sanspach 16:02 thd here 16:00 kados well, this will be easy to summarize :-) 15:59 kados heh 15:59 kados anyone here? :-) 15:59 kados hello? 15:59 kados T-MINUS 2 MINUTES TO KOHA MEETING 15:55 kados T-MINUS 5 MINUTES TO KOHA MEETING 15:46 kados T-MINUS 15 MINUTES TO KOHA MEETING 14:55 kados be back before the mtg 14:46 kados don't think we really need an agenda ... not much to talk about with paul missing :( 14:45 kados T-MINUS ~1 hour 15 MINUTES TO KOHA ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING 14:28 thd kados: exactly, it will tell you so breaking from old files seems very odd. 14:27 kados though usually cvs will warn you when you try otherwise 14:27 kados thd: always make sure you're working from the latest cvs before you commit anything 14:26 thd kados: I just want to be certain I do not do anything worse if there is some good practise I can follow to avoid that for myself :) 14:26 kados I suspect someone overwrote the fix somewhere along the way 14:25 kados thd: other than it's working now :-) 14:25 kados thd: don't know what to tell ya 14:25 thd kados: 2.2.5 seemed to have broken it for all the templates. 14:24 thd kados: Yet, it was working correctly for the CSS templates at that time. 14:23 thd kados: the subject search fix was committed for the NPL templates a few days after 2.2.4 after I noticed it and pointed it out to owen. 14:22 kados thd: I'm trying to stop doing that :-) 14:22 kados thd: mostly what's happening is we forget to commit the fixes right away 14:13 thd kados: Are people working with old copies of rel 2_2 files and then reusing them for later updates to CVS? 14:11 thd kados: Is there not some good standard practise that prevents that from happening? 14:10 thd kados: what is happening when the fixed things become broken all over again? 14:09 thd _hdl_: Are you still there? 14:08 kados thd: no template or script modifs 14:08 kados thd: kohatest.liblime.com is running stock cvs 14:08 kados thd: yep 14:07 thd kados: did you commit the needed template changes to all templates? 14:07 kados thd: np :-) 14:06 thd kados: sorry for causing trouble testing on your test system without first having tested on my own. 14:04 thd kados: The value must have been truncated with bad syntax. 14:03 thd kados: The above seems to have been the problem yesterday with my attempt to search all possible subject subfields. 14:02 thd _hdl_: Is there any reason why marc_subfield_structure.seealso cannot be VARCHAR (2048) instead of VARCHAR (255)? 13:30 thd :) 13:30 thd kados: very expensive for much of the same information 13:29 kados a service that many libraries pay syndetic solutions or some other vendor to use 13:29 kados the only link to Amazon.com on the OPAC is a link to the 'read it now' service they offer 13:28 kados what about using a service from a company like Amazon 13:28 thd kados: I know but someone had made a rule that allowed the publishers name but did not allow linking to a commercial business or something, at least at that library. 13:26 kados well ... any time a library has a book publisher listed on the OPAC it's advertising :-) 13:26 thd kados: where osmoze works 13:25 thd kados: French public library 13:25 thd kados: I remember a discussion on #koha where the library would not be allowed to in essence advertise for a private business such as Amazon. 13:25 _hdl_ Could ask osmoze in fact. 13:24 _hdl_ But usually, french librarian are reluctant to redirect ppl to market places. 13:24 _hdl_ kados: could be. 13:23 kados _hdl_: (/me wonders if any french libraries would like the amazon stuff) 13:23 kados _hdl_: have you had a chance to try out the new code I committed? 13:22 kados thd: now that the syspref is there, it's easy enough to add 13:22 thd kados: A link should be fine. 13:22 kados thd: I'll leave that to the interface designers :-) 13:22 thd kados: The default for the intranet is certainly about Koha. 13:22 _hdl_ If there is ISBN, summary and title and author, yes. 13:22 kados thd: maybe even a graphic? :-) 13:22 kados thd: maybe ... something like 'Koha ILS' with a link to the koha homepage or something? 13:21 thd kados: Shouldn't there be a default for the OPAC? 13:20 thd _hdl_: Your description seems to be the copyright page if it were English. Do you refer to that as 'le avis de copyright'? 13:15 kados no default 13:13 thd kados: Do all templates have a default for that? 13:12 kados thd: and any other privacy policy, etc. that they might have 13:12 kados thd: a link that goes to the disclaimer 13:12 kados thd: of course, they can just put a link in the opaccredits :-) 13:12 thd kados: If it seldom seen, then it cannot be very scary. 13:10 thd kados: Although, I think people almost never see the bottom of a web page unless either no scrolling is required or scrolling is needed for useful information the user was expecting. 13:07 thd kados: That is even better but if the all caps for the Amazon notice is required that seems just a little scary on every page as opposed to a special content disclaimer page. 13:05 kados thd: at the bottom of the page (in the NPL template) 13:05 kados thd: that allows inserting text into each template 13:05 kados thd: it's a system pref 13:04 kados thd: it's not a page 13:04 thd kados: I will look for the opaccredits page. 13:03 kados just add some html to that systempref 13:03 kados since it's a systempref, they don't even need to edit the template file 13:03 kados thd: dunno ... but my new 'opaccredits' can be easily used for that 13:03 _hdl_ thd: usually, in france, title, authors, page count ISBN, and so on and so forth, no beautiful image or display 13:02 thd kados: Why is there no About Koha default page for the OPAC? 13:01 kados thd: feel free to post a note to koha-devel recommending it 13:01 kados thd: I think I'll leave that up to each Koha site to put into their template 13:00 thd kados: I do not think that it necessarily does. I think an about Koha page, copyright, or disclaimers page in the OPAC would be fine. 12:59 kados thd: so would a link to 'content disclaimer' satisfy you? 12:59 kados thd: 'reasonably viewable' does not mean 'on the same page' 12:59 thd _hdl_: What text actually appears on the fourth cover page? 12:58 thd kados: We both know that they do not bother to enforce this but it is much too useful to fail to comply like many others. 12:57 kados :-) 12:57 _hdl_ Sorry to interrupt 12:56 _hdl_ or you can play, in France with 4th cover page not submitted to copyright. 12:56 kados thd: when they click on the 'search inside' link 12:56 thd kados: That seems to suggest that the notice could be located on an OPAC About Koha page when web services is enabled. 12:56 kados thd: 'reasonably viewable' is nice and vague :-) 12:53 thd kados: http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html/ref=sc_fe_c_2_3434651_3/102-8292207-9264126?%5Fencoding=UTF8&node=3440661 12:50 thd kados: 1.B.4. If you display any Amazon Properties within your Application, you must add the following disclaimer in a place that is reasonably viewable by the user of your Application: "PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT SOME OF THE CONTENT THAT WE MAKE AVAILABLE TO YOU THROUGH THIS APPLICATION COMES FROM AMAZON WEB SERVICES. ALL SUCH CONTENT IS PROVIDED TO YOU "AS IS." THIS CONTENT AND YOUR USE OF IT ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND/OR REMOVAL AT ANY TIME." 12:49 thd kados: I asked you before about some minor nuisance clause for using Amazon web services in accordance with their license. 12:24 thd good morning 12:24 shedges morning kados 12:24 kados morning shedges, thd 11:14 kados perhaps we should reschedule 11:14 kados ok thanks 11:07 _hdl_ Too tired. 11:07 _hdl_ Paul won't be ale to be there tonight. 11:07 _hdl_ morning joshua.