Time  Nick      Message
12:35 thd       kados: ping
12:36 kados     thd: hi
12:36 kados     thd: what's up?
12:37 thd       kados: chase dismissed
12:37 kados     thd: congrats
12:37 kados     thd: you must be relieved
12:37 thd       kados: yes
12:37 paul      what means  "chase dismissed" ?
12:38 paul      (hello thd)
12:38 paul      (hello owen too)
12:38 thd       kados: avoid court in Newark, NJ at all costs
12:39 thd       paul: hello, I am out of gaol and prosecution for contempt of court in Newark, New Jersey.
12:41 thd       kados: I cannot resubscribe koha@alinto.com to the koha-devel list.
12:42 thd       kados: Messages were bouncing when I had not checked them just and my mailbox quota became overfilled.
12:42 kados     thd: I can add you manually
12:43 thd       kados: The system claims that I am already subscribed.
12:46 kados     thd: ok ... should be fixed
12:47 kados     thd: there was a flag for your email address because of too many bounced messages
12:47 thd       kados: can you ensure that koha@alinto.com is subscribed to all koha Savannah lists.
12:48 thd       kados: I was checking lawyers all the time not Koha mail and everything bounced after 6 Jan.
12:50 thd       kados: Apparently that flag cannot be reset externally.  Is that something that you control or is it a bug.
12:50 thd       ?
12:52 kados     thd: looks like koha@alinto is subscribed to every list except koha-win32 and koha-zebra
12:52 kados     thd: not a bug
12:54 thd       kados: could you subscribe me to those lists, including cvs.  I have certainly not been receiving anything from savannah.
12:55 kados     thd: you're subscribed to all except koha-win32 and koha-zebra ... please subscribe yourself to those lists as I'm quite busy :-)
12:57 thd       kados: I have re-subscribed myself to koha-zebra but there seems to be a bug if you do not see koha@alinto.com in the subscription list.
13:07 kados     T-MINUS ~3 HOURS TO ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING
13:07 kados     thd: might just take some time to update the list
13:08 kados     thd: and you _are_ listed
13:08 kados     thd: but you're not subscribed to koha-win32
13:09 thd       kados: koha-devel had even sent me a message informing me that I was still subscribed without indicating a problem when I attempted to resubscribe.
13:10 kados     thd: best thing to do is make sure your email doesn't bounce :-)
13:11 thd       kados: Hard to do from gaol :)
13:11 kados     hehe
13:12 thd       kados: It was actually some commits of large files to cvs that put me over the quota, otherwise all should be fine.
13:14 thd       kados: If there is a bug, it would be nice to prove it, the Savannah people seem very responsive and have recently added a couple of admins.
13:17 thd       kados: I can only see the outside half of the issue so that I cannot prove the bug myself alone.
13:17 kados     I recently adjusted the quota on koha-cvs
13:17 kados     so let me know if it happens again
13:18 kados     for now, I'm too busy to worry about savannah bugs :-)
13:18 kados     unless it becomes a serious problem for everyone
13:18 thd       kados: what do you mean by quota in this context?
13:18 kados     which, so far as I can tell, it's not
13:18 kados     thd: message size limit
13:19 thd       kados: OK, what happens now when the message exceeds what limit?
13:20 kados     thd: for all practical cases, there is no limit now
13:22 thd       kados: I should de anonomise myself to reduce the hazard.  I have been setting a few things up on my domain to prepare for that.
13:47 osmoze    hello
13:47 paul      hello
13:47 paul      ta démo s'est bien passée ?
13:47 osmoze    je pense oui :)
13:48 osmoze    j'attend un retour de Francis maintenant
13:48 paul      plein de portscans sur les ports 6880-6999 aujourd'hui...
13:48 paul      bizarre...
13:48 paul      c'est les ports du p2p ces trucs là sauf erreur.
13:48 osmoze    mais après reflexion, il faut etre fou pour rester chez A****
13:48 osmoze    paul, de msn pour la cam aussi
13:48 paul      y aurait il un virus/ver en cours de promenade.
13:49 paul      ah, ok, alors il doit y avoir une nouvelle faille exploitée ;-)
13:49 osmoze    je pense :)
13:50 osmoze    J ai cru comprendre que Francis te contacterai dans les prochains jours, peut etre t en dira t il plus
15:00 kados     T-MINUS 60 MINUTES UNTIL KOHA ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING
15:00 kados     AGENDA: http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koha_wiki/index.php?page=AgendAndNotes06jan30
15:07 kados     hi slef
15:07 slef      hi kados
15:47 kados     so should we get started a bit early chris?
15:47 kados     cause you're a major player here :-)
15:48 chris     i just edited the wiki a little
15:49 chris     yeah, unfortunately I have other meetings to go too :(
15:49 chris     but on the plus side, they are about koha
15:49 |hdl|     hdl here.
15:49 |hdl|     But paul wil be late.
15:49 |hdl|     He asked me to excuse him
15:50 chris     be back in about 5 mins
15:51 |hdl|     paul won't be much late
15:54 kados     chris: ping when you get back
15:58 kados     hey sanspach
15:58 sanspach  hello
16:01 kados     OK ... well my clock reads 11:01
16:01 kados     so who's here?
16:01 thd       here
16:01 paul      hello world
16:01 kados     hi paul
16:02 thd       still out of gaol
16:02 kados     still waiting for chris I think
16:02 slef      kados: aye
16:02 paul      lot of ppl tonight
16:03 kados     welcome everyone ...
16:03 kados     here's our agenda:
16:03 kados     http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koha_wiki/index.php?page=AgendAndNotes06jan30
16:04 kados     paul: while we wait for chris, could you summarize what you've done so far?
16:04 paul      on HEAD you mean ?
16:04 kados     yep
16:04 paul      (writing with baby near me... any typo is not mine ;-) )
16:04 paul      SO :
16:04 kados     hehe
16:04 chris     back
16:05 paul      * code cleaning, 2 steps :
16:05 chris     for about 45 mins
16:05 paul      - moving some scripts to a more logic directory
16:06 kados     paul: specifically, perl-zoom related stuff ...
16:06 paul      - rewriting some C4 packages to : get rid with useless subs, normalize others and move others
16:06 paul      * Perl ZOOM :
16:06 kados     paul: where are we at with perl-zoom integration? are there still some problems encountered?
16:06 paul      I can't make Perl ZOOM work correctly.
16:06 paul      2 problems remains :
16:06 paul      - search in CQL don't work
16:07 paul      - Extended services don't work well for me either
16:07 paul      when I try to have a key defined
16:08 paul      recordId: (bib1, Identifier-standard) in zebra.cfg I mean
16:08 paul      does not work.
16:08 paul      Thus i'm stuck and can't go further.
16:09 paul      in HEAD, C4/Biblio could be moved to zebra in less than 1 hour I bet when i'll have zebra working
16:09 kados     so as of yet, have you sucessfully updated a zebra database with new records using Perl-ZOOM (at all?)
16:09 kados     or this problem is preventing it?
16:09 paul      yes, but only without recordId, thus only add works. modif don't
16:09 kados     I see
16:10 kados     ok ... thanks paul
16:10 paul      + I can't really test, as I can't query the DB correctly !
16:10 kados     right
16:10 kados     so hopefully chris or the Index Data guys can shed some light on these problems
16:10 paul      I strongly hope !
16:11 kados     do we need to send another email to koha-zebra explaining them?
16:11 kados     (I can send if it would help)
16:11 paul      I think we should write one to remind some questions are still unsolved.
16:11 paul      but nothing new in fact !
16:11 kados     right
16:11 paul      (jeremie going to bed)
16:11 paul      I can summarize all my problems if you want.
16:12 kados     that'd be great
16:12 paul      (+ commit some non working code)
16:12 kados     thanks, that will help alot
16:12 chris     that would be good paul
16:12 paul      for CQL search, the main problem is a yaz-zebra-zoom config problem I think.
16:12 paul      there are a lot of doc from indexdata, but in 3-4 different pieces.
16:13 kados     yep
16:13 paul      hard to solve the puzzle when you begin
16:13 kados     anything else on this topic?
16:13 paul      not from me.
16:13 kados     ok ... then we can move on ...
16:13 kados     Perl Packages
16:13 kados     mainly Date::Manip ...
16:14 kados     I think we all agree that we've got to get rid of Date::Manip for proc-sensitive operations
16:14 paul      I have asked a french newsgroup about this
16:14 chris     yes
16:14 kados     paul: did you get a response?
16:15 paul      yes : going to Datetime
16:15 paul      from Paul Gaborit, THE perl mongueur in France
16:15 kados     right
16:15 paul      thus, i bet it's the way to go
16:15 kados     anyone object to that idea?
16:15 chris     Date::Manip has its place in things like reports
16:15 chris     nope Damian Conway suggested Datetime too
16:16 kados     great ... ok so let's do that then ... next question ... who? :-)
16:16 chris     ill do it
16:16 thd       Date::Calc
16:16 kados     great ... thanks chris
16:16 kados     paul: did you add MARC::XML to the agenda?
16:16 paul      no. But it's a good idea !
16:17 kados     we should see some commits soon to MARC::Charset and MARC::File::XML
16:17 paul      (maybe I did it in fact...)
16:17 paul      my opinion is that XML is the way to go.
16:17 chris     cool
16:17 kados     prompted by some complaints I submitted to Ed Summers
16:17 paul      and MARC::XML is the natural tool to manage iso2709 files.
16:18 kados     there are some political problems with the maintainers of the MARC modules
16:18 kados     I don't know the history, but I suspect we might see a fork
16:18 kados     :(
16:18 paul      (could you explain a little bit more)
16:19 thd       kados: what fork are you expecting?
16:19 kados     well, off the record, I think Ed Summers (who maintains MARC::File::XML and MARC::Charset) is upset with Andy Lester (who maintained MARC::Record)
16:19 kados     I don't know any of the details
16:19 kados     but I know they're not speaking at the moment
16:20 shedges   who maintains MARC::XML?
16:20 paul      ok, that's enough for me.
16:20 paul      ed
16:20 kados     hopefully this won't cause any problems in the interoperability of the modules
16:20 kados     shedges: is there even a MARC::XML anymore?
16:20 paul      no, when I wrote MARC::XML, I speak of MARC::file::XML in fact
16:20 kados     I think it's been moved to MARC::File::XML
16:20 paul      I explain :
16:20 thd       these disagreements never make any sense to meet
16:21 thd       s/meet/me
16:21 paul      with MARC::File::XML, you can read/write XML files in a MARC::Record.
16:21 paul      thus, you can go XML in Koha very easily.
16:21 kados     right
16:21 kados     so there is a unicode-friendly version of MARC::Record on SourceForge ... the CPAN version isn't unicode friendly
16:22 kados     I've been bugging Andy about that ... hopefully he'll update CPAN soon
16:22 kados     something else to keep in mind
16:22 paul      a MARC::Record from Ed or andy ?
16:22 kados     andy
16:22 kados     well ... andy et al
16:22 chris     on the topic of perl modules
16:23 thd       what about creating a class for koha modules on CPAN?
16:23 chris     who here uses Smart::Comments ?
16:23 thd       Packaging distributions would be much easier.
16:23 kados     not me
16:23 chris     ok, its a great tool for debug
16:23 chris     use Smart::Comments;
16:24 chris     then if i type
16:24 slef      thd: new installer would be better, then MakeMaker and it will package easily anyway.
16:24 chris     ### $var
16:24 chris     it gets output
16:24 chris     then when im finished testing, i comment out use Smart::Comments
16:24 kados     cool
16:24 chris     and it goes back to being a comment
16:25 paul      does it work with HTML::Template ?
16:25 chris     http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Smart-Comments-1.0.1/lib/Smart/Comments.pm
16:25 paul      or in log ?
16:25 chris     in the log
16:25 paul      ok, so it's H::T compatible.
16:26 chris     yep, just a little tip, handy for debugging
16:26 kados     I'm all in favor of it
16:26 kados     so ... getting back to M::R and M::F::X ... anything we need to decide on that?
16:26 slef      yuck, executable comments
16:27 chris     if you dont like them, dont use them
16:27 chris     its only a development tool
16:28 chris     the other module ive found useful lately is want
16:29 thd       kados: Nothing to decide until people start creating XML records to large to convert back to MARC.
16:29 chris     but we can talk about that one another time
16:29 kados     thd: don't we already have that problem at some libraries?
16:30 thd       kados: yes we may have :)
16:31 thd       kados: We need to find the precise threshold of when size breaks MARC.
16:31 kados     IIRC it's 9999 chars
16:31 paul      it's 9999B iirc
16:31 paul      kados : you won ;-)
16:31 kados     :-)
16:31 paul      and the problem is that MARc::Record don't cut a too long MARC::Record when exporting in iso2709
16:31 slef      chars != bytes (welcome to unicode)
16:32 paul      but set size to something stupid
16:32 kados     good point slef ...
16:32 thd       kados: I was working on that problem till I was caught in a certain municipal court disputing US$1.25
16:32 paul      I won : it's 9999 Bytes !
16:32 kados     so paul wins then :-)
16:32 chris     heh
16:32 chris     ok I have 10 mins more then i have to go
16:33 kados     ok ... wanna talk about modperl then
16:33 chris     right, im about to start work on getting koha to place nice under mod_perl and mod_perl2
16:33 paul      we should speak of what chris will work on don't we ?
16:33 kados     yep ... mod_perl(2) and new serials then
16:33 chris     i hope to clean some stuff as I go, like paul was doing
16:34 kados     cool
16:34 thd       paul: what counts for bytes, all data when expressed as an ISO2709 format?
16:34 chris     the serials spec is being read by a few libraries
16:34 kados     everyone note that mod_perl2 is different than mod_perl 1.9998 which is what debian is calling mod_perl2
16:34 kados     and they changed the namespaces so it does matter what version you have
16:34 chris     once we have collated their comments, and made some changes, work on the serials module will start
16:35 chris     it will be built around the work on serials that has already been done
16:35 thd       kados: etch has broken my Postgres
16:35 paul      I plan to add a small feature in serials, in 2.2.6
16:35 chris     but extended to meet a few more requirements, and with system preferences to allow libraries to choose what features they need
16:35 paul      it's auto creation of an item when recieving
16:36 chris     excellent
16:36 chris     we need that
16:36 owen      0078936
16:36 slef      kados: what's actual deb package name?
16:36 paul      owen ? is it your password ?
16:36 paul      or your bankcard secret code ?
16:36 kados     is anyone working on serials routing?
16:36 slef      slef: libapache2-mod-perl2
16:36 chris     we will be, if no one else is
16:36 paul      there's already something in HEAD on this subject
16:36 paul      quite simple, but working.
16:37 paul      you can define a routing page, that can be printed.
16:37 chris     cool
16:37 paul      it contains borrowers selected from borrowers or entered manually
16:37 chris     right, we'll probably extend that a bit too
16:37 paul      it does not handle following a serial
16:37 kados     slef: it might be: libapache2-mod-perl2
16:37 chris     a client is paying for the serials work, and routing is the major thing they want
16:38 slef      kados: debian has libapache2-mod-perl2 2.0.2 in testing, should be a simple apt-get source --build
16:38 kados     slef: yep, I was just alerting debian users that stable mod_perl2 is not mod_perl2 :-)
16:38 slef      http://packages.qa.debian.org/liba/libapache2-mod-perl2.html
16:38 chris     as part of the mod_perl stuff
16:39 chris     ill have to check every part of koha works under it
16:39 kados     yep
16:39 chris     so I hope to squash some bugs at the same time
16:39 slef      kados: aye, looks like upstream's release dates coincided badly
16:39 kados     last time I checked there were some weird problems with mod_per2 and circ
16:39 chris     or at least, get mason and bob to squash them for me
16:39 kados     though I did get the OPAC working fine
16:39 kados     heh
16:39 kados     ok ... so all good there ...
16:40 kados     anything more about serials or mod_perl?
16:40 chris     not from me
16:40 kados     ok ... lets hit on Database ...
16:40 kados     paul: you added this I assume?
16:40 paul      yep.
16:40 thd       I would say something but I have not kept up this past month
16:41 thd       I have not caught up yet  :)
16:41 kados     so I am happy with the idea of constraints
16:41 paul      I just wanted to say that I'va added constaints in DB schema
16:41 paul      + move to innoDB
16:41 kados     nice job there paul
16:41 chris     ok i better go catch a bus .. ill read the log
16:41 chris     and email any things i think of
16:41 kados     ciao chris ... read you soon
16:41 paul      i'm not afraid with Oracle buying innoDB company.
16:41 slef      paul: what does koha do if a constraint is violated?
16:42 kados     i was gonna ask about that
16:42 paul      as innnoDB is GPL unless i'm missing something.
16:42 paul      it depends.
16:42 paul      most constraints are CASCADE
16:42 paul      meaning : if you delete the parent data, all childs are deleted too
16:42 kados     slef and thd, you are our IP experts ... any probs using InnoDB in a GPL project like Koha that you can forsee?
16:43 paul      some are RESTRICT, meaning deleting a parent is forbidden when a child exists
16:43 paul      and a few are SET NULL, meaning, the childs are set to nULL when parent deleted.
16:43 thd       what license does InnoDB have?
16:43 paul      SET NULL are for issues, not to drop issues when a borrower is deleted : we keep the issuing record, anonymous
16:43 slef      kados: checking
16:44 paul      RESTRICT are for constraints like branches >> items.
16:44 paul      you can't delete a branch if an item exists on it.
16:44 paul      would be quite dangerous to set cascade here ;-)
16:45 sanspach  why not RESTRICT for borrower >> issues ?
16:45 kados     right
16:45 paul      because we can't delete issues !
16:45 shedges   "The GNU GPL license, under which both MySQL and InnoDB are published, does not allow, without a permission from MySQL AB and Innobase Oy, linking of InnoDB and MySQL, or the client libraries of MySQL, to a product which you distribute but which does not itself satisfy the GNU GPL license."
16:45 slef      kados: http://www.innodb.com/licenses.php says "The GNU GPL license, under which both MySQL and InnoDB are published [...]" = no problem AFAICT
16:45 shedges   http://www.innodb.com/licenses.php
16:46 paul      CASCADE or SET NULL are valid possibilityes, but RESTRICT is a bad idea I think
16:46 kados     hehe
16:46 slef      shedges: have you seen /usr/share/doc/mysql-server/copyright though? Not happy.
16:47 paul      (should be somewhere else, but where ?)
16:47 thd       shedges: Is that GPL 2 or a later version at the recipient's option?
16:47 slef      paul: I hear mandriva put their copyright files in /dev/null ;-)
16:48 kados     slef: what about future releases of innodb ... do we need to worry about them not being GPL?
16:48 thd       shedges: this has become important now that there is a draft of GPL 3
16:48 slef      kados: if it ever changes, I'd expect someone will probably fork mysql
16:49 kados     ok ... so we do need to keep our eyes on what Oracle's doing with innodb
16:49 shedges   thd:  the page links to GPL 2
16:49 kados     but in the meantime, I suppose we should move forward with it
16:49 kados     as it's a much better storage engine
16:49 paul      and say "mysql could not delete what you wanted to delete blabla"
16:50 kados     right
16:50 thd       shedges: what is the exact link?
16:50 paul      I'm OK to continue managing the DB schema in the future.
16:50 kados     we definitely need good error handling with the constraits
16:50 shedges   http://www.innodb.com/gpl.txt
16:50 kados     great, thanks paul
16:50 kados     anything more on the databases or innodb stuff?
16:50 paul      ;-)
16:50 kados     paul: :-)
16:51 paul      nope. Except i'll take a look at innoDB tweaks/config files
16:51 kados     ok ... great
16:51 paul      to see what to do to improve perfs.
16:51 paul      i'll write the result on the wiki
16:51 kados     if we need to discuss the licensing stuff lets start a thread on koha-devel
16:51 kados     next is programming templates
16:51 kados     owen can wake up now :-)
16:52 paul      owen... time to leave your bed ;-)
16:52 paul      derelict ???
16:52 kados     hehe
16:52 slef      thd: looks like version at time of publication only http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/introduction.html
16:52 owen      ...But paul has been taking up the slack
16:52 paul      a last note on DB :
16:52 paul      DB constraints requires mySQL 4.1
16:53 paul      this is important I think
16:53 paul      (even if every every major distro now provides it)
16:53 kados     right
16:53 kados     I'm ok with that
16:53 kados     a last note on mod_perl2: it requires apache2
16:54 kados     unless I'm mistaken
16:54 |hdl|     but won't be required for Koha to work
16:54 kados     right
16:55 kados     ok ... so programming templates
16:56 kados     at some point, hopefully soon, we're going to start designing some official Koha templates right?
16:56 paul      hopefully.
16:56 paul      and I won't be the designer, for sure ;-)
16:57 owen      I thought Katipo was going to work on a design for us
16:57 kados     hi si
16:57 si        morning all
16:57 paul      hi si
16:57 paul      (not really morning for us, but hello even)
16:57 kados     si: do you know if katipo plans to work on a new template design for 3.0?
16:57 si        paul: quite
16:57 kados     si: that Owen can code?
16:58 si        I'd imagine we are
16:58 si        but I'll check with the oracle (russ) who's just walked in the door
16:58 thd       slef shedges: from http://www.innodb.com/gpl.txt "you have the option of following the terms and conditions either of that version or of any later version published by the Free Software Foundation" look for this text it is now important
16:59 si        thd: it's important to remeber that's in the informatiuon about the license, not the license itself
16:59 russ      kados : yes i think we will be doing templates
16:59 kados     great ... so I'm assuming we'll know more about that in a couple of weeks when chris is almost done with perl-zoom stuff :-)
16:59 kados     ok ... anything else to talk about regarding templates?
17:00 paul      nope.
17:00 paul      except that we have 2 possibilities:
17:01 paul      - katipo defines a design that changes only a few PROG code. That should be possible because owen design + my improvements makes them really versatile
17:01 paul      - katipo defines a design when Koha 3.0 is aalmost here
17:01 paul      as it's really hard to update 2 sets of templates.
17:02 paul      I tried, on 2.0 with en/fr, before the great translator tool knocks
17:02 paul      and owen could confirm I bet
17:02 kados     good point paul
17:02 kados     ok ... lets move on to the installer
17:02 kados     slef: can you update us on that?
17:03 owen      We didn't really decide on paul's two possibilities
17:03 owen      russ: any thoughts on those two options?
17:03 paul      (we don't have, owen. katipo will tell us the way they want to follow)
17:04 russ      sorry i compeltely forgot about this meetng
17:04 slef      kados: the new installer is there, but the basic mechanics need some work and I most of all need a current INSTALL instructions
17:04 kados     heh
17:04 russ      i need to way up the pros and cons with the team
17:04 owen      That's fine...as long as the ball is in the right court! :)
17:04 paul      slef : "there" ? do you mean you have it or it is commited ? (I didn't saw anything on cvs on this subject)
17:05 kados     slef: I think the closest thing to that we have is a couple of email I sent last month
17:05 kados     (or was it in late November)
17:05 slef      kados: do you have links handy so I can add them to comments?
17:05 thd       what were paul's two possibilities?  sorry for being behind.
17:05 slef      paul: there's an old version committed... I need to commit the latest changes
17:05 kados     slef: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/koha-devel/2005-12/msg00013.html
17:06 kados     slef: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/koha-devel/2005-12/msg00015.html
17:06 paul      thd : defining templates as late as possible, or defining them now, but using prog basis.
17:06 kados     slef: well , that thread anyway
17:07 slef      kados: thanks. Leaves me unpicking the 2.2.4 installer still, sadly.
17:07 paul      slef : could you point me what you're speaking of ?
17:07 paul      (in cvs )
17:07 kados     yep, less than ideal, but not too bad if you've got the koha dirs symlinked to CVS
17:07 slef      paul: koha/Makefile.PL
17:08 paul      ok, thanks
17:08 slef      if anyone can fill in the right module versions, please do
17:08 kados     so slef can you commit what you've done ... and we can take a look and talk about it at next meeting?
17:09 kados     or on koha-devel
17:09 slef      kados: ok
17:09 slef      I'll mail koha-devel once it's in
17:09 shedges   does the new installer handle MySQL 4.1 (no password() function)?
17:09 kados     ok ... Fix budget-based acquisitions is a chris thinkg
17:09 kados     slef: thanks
17:10 |hdl|     will there be a Windows inwtaller too ?
17:10 kados     user reviews is a chris thing too
17:10 thd       before we leave installer may I ask about CPAN class for Koha?
17:10 kados     I see 'plan approach for Feb' on the agenda
17:10 slef      |hdl|: can't Windows perl use MakeMaker?
17:11 kados     slef: what do you think about having Koha on CPAN?
17:11 slef      thd: what are the benefits?
17:11 slef      kados: I think maybe get MakeMaker working and then look again.
17:12 thd       slef: I have spoken with  Debian project leaders who recommend that for simplifying Debian packaging
17:12 slef      |hdl|: same boat as me. I assume moving to MakeMaker won't make Windows installers harder anyway.
17:12 slef      thd: far be it from me to contradict other developers, but that sounds odd.
17:13 thd       slef: It keep the namespace clear when there is a universally recognised class.
17:13 slef      thd: the main problems with a koha.deb are 1. getting the dependencies packaged and 2. finding a Maintainer. I'll be an Uploader if anyone is willing to be Maintainer.
17:13 thd       for the modules to use
17:14 slef      thd: ah, I think I see what you mean. Move C4 to either Koha or to Koha::C4 ?
17:14 thd       exactly
17:14 slef      thd: now that bit I can see the point of! Yes, please!
17:15 thd       It should be an easy change unless someone knows of a problem
17:15 slef      I can only think of the cvs directory layout and sheer number of places to change
17:15 kados     yea, it would be a pain
17:16 kados     but might be worth it in the longrun
17:16 kados     paul: do you have an opinion on this?
17:16 thd       paul: any problem with running a regex on the code to create a koha class
17:16 kados     I'd be happy to maintain the CPAN
17:16 paul      in fact, i'm not sure to understand what is suggested here
17:16 kados     and might even be convinced to upload it :-)
17:16 thd       paul: what is the opposite?
17:16 slef      kados: let's try to get into shape in that way, then revisit?
17:17 slef      kados: s/in that way/ready for upload/
17:17 paul      letting things as it (I mean for C4 package)
17:17 kados     paul: we're talking about moving all Koha perl modules into a Koha:: class
17:17 kados     paul: and having Koha::C4::
17:17 kados     paul: then we can upload Koha to CPAN
17:17 paul      OK, thus I understood.
17:17 kados     slef: sounds like a plan
17:17 kados     anything else to discuss?
17:17 paul      what is not clear is : is Koha::C4 useful for someone else than us ?
17:18 slef      paul: non-web frontend writers, if I'm dreaming.
17:18 paul      if not, then I don't understand why it's a good idea
17:18 kados     slef: yea, that'd be great!
17:18 kados     getting it out on CPAN can't hurt
17:18 paul      right.
17:18 thd       paul: maybe not but it makes packaging for binary distribution much easier when the namespace for the modules is clear and in CPAN
17:19 slef      kados: it could. Might end up with stale code up there (sourceforge?)
17:19 paul      ok, I'm not a monger here, so i will follow your opinion
17:19 paul      stale ?
17:20 kados     slef: so we'd have to make sure we maintained it
17:20 kados     slef: I can definitely commit to that
17:20 thd       paul: old or out of date but I have no knowledge of any problems updating to CPAN
17:20 kados     ok ... if there's nothing else,
17:20 kados     thanks everyone ...
17:20 kados     while you're still here ...
17:20 kados     any problems doing this again next Monday?
17:21 thd       Monday is good
17:21 kados     paul: work for you?
17:22 kados     I'll try to get a summary out later today
17:22 paul      should be OK for me
17:22 kados     great ... hopefully chris will be ok with another early monday
17:22 thd       I will try to be up to date by next Monday :)
17:22 paul      bye bye thus
17:22 kados     ciao paul
17:23 thd       I have a months worth of work to catch up to
17:23 thd       goodbye paul
17:24 |hdl|     bye folks.
17:24 slef      hdl: bye, A+
17:24 thd       good evening hdl_away
17:25 thd       goodbye slef
17:27 thd       kados: I am going to treat my re-subscription after bouncing messages problem as a bug and forward it to the Savannah maintainers unless you have information otherwise.
17:28 kados     thd: it's not a bug
17:28 kados     thd: don't bother them
17:29 thd       kados: kados I do not want to bother anyone but the system clearly informed me that I was still subscribed when I could no longer receive messages after I attempted to re-subscribe.
17:30 kados     thd: it's fixed now, so don't worry about it
17:31 thd       kados: If you say so :)
17:32 thd       kados: I should soon subscribe a non-anonymous address but even that would not guarantee never bouncing.
17:34 slef      can we boot that list @googlegroups?
17:34 thd       slef: what list?
17:34 slef      freesoft@googlegroups - if I post to koha-devel, I get a bounce from them
17:35 slef      It's because google has banned *@*.coop
17:35 thd       slef: I do not understand what is banned.
17:35 slef      here, let me paste some of the email I get:
17:36 slef      You do not have permission to post to group freesoft. You may need to join the
17:36 slef      group before being allowed to post, or this group may not be open to posting.
17:36 slef      Visit http://groups.google.com/group/freesoft/about to join or learn more about
17:36 slef      who is
17:36 slef      allowed to post to the group.
17:36 slef      [end quote]
17:36 slef      every bloody time I post to koha-devel
17:36 slef      I wish people would wise up about google... http://mjr.towers.org.uk/blog/2006/google
17:36 richard   it is really annoying to get those bounces
17:37 slef      richard: oh, does everyone get them?
17:37 slef      I thought it was the googlegroups ban on .coop again.
17:37 richard   i do and i saw an email from someone else complaining about them too
17:38 slef      biabb, dinner
17:41 russ      next monday is superbowl?
17:41 shedges   SUNDAY!  (here, anyway)
17:41 russ      ah of course
17:42 thd       slef: now I understand about what you meant.
17:44 thd       russ: whenever a significant part of the world is paying attention to a sporting event that just seems like an ideal opportunity to for me to get more work done.
17:54 russ      thd : fair enough
17:56 thd       russ: If chess tournaments were broadcast there was a time when i might have payed attention.  However, the idea of a broadcast chess tournament is laughable :)
21:47 kados     anyone around?
21:52 thd       kados: I am still around
21:53 richard   hi
21:59 thd       kados: has chris fixed normal acquisitions in 2.x?
23:40 thd       kados: are you still there
23:40 thd       ?
23:51 kados     thd: sort of
23:53 thd       kados: are you placing a dependency on a particular DB flavour in Koha 3.0?
23:58 thd       |hdl|: Did you see the question I just asked kados?
05:04 osmoze    bonjour
05:18 paul_away (hello osmoze