Time  Nick Message
06:29 thd  hdl: nevermind my last post.  I think line 1128 at the top of MARCmarc2kohaOneField() describes the previous problem that MARCmarc2kohaOneField() is designed to fix.  Previously, only the one value from repeated subfields was retrieved for old-db but after MARCmarc2kohaOneField() all values should be retrieved.
05:49 thd  hdl: If there is something that partly functions according to that comment it would help explain the problem for having only one ISBN populating biblioitems.isbn when there should be two in some cases ..
05:23 thd  hdl: How should I interpret "FIXME ?" ?   Does that mean something that needs to be done or has been done?
05:21 thd  hdl: did you see the comment in line 1128 in Biblio.PM?
05:17 hdl  thd : You're welcome
05:17 thd  hdl: thank you for pointing me to the right section of code.  I should have been searching for use of '|' but I feared too many uses outside the context for which I was looking.
05:01 thd  hdl: I was hoping this code was not in Biblio.PM as paul said that removing all the warnings raised by this module might be 12 hours debugging for him which would be many more for me :)
04:57 thd  hdl: I will use a function for array reversal.
04:54 thd  hdl: fixing the reversal should be as simple as popping the repeated values onto a new array.  Is there an easier way?
04:43 hdl  then marc2kohaOneField
04:43 hdl  then a call to marc2koha
04:43 hdl  comes from NEWnewbiblio
04:42 hdl  MARCmarc2kohaOneField
04:42 hdl  line 1159 in Biblio.pm
04:41 thd  hdl: But I have not found the code that adds the '|' when joining an array or the code that reads the subfields into the corresponding array for the mapped Koha columns.
04:40 hdl  you guess well.
04:39 thd  hdl: I imagine the reverse order comes from pushing the new values onto an array as they are read or some similar construct such that when the array values are joined together they are backwards from the MARC record..
04:39 hdl  thd: ISBN will folow the same rule.
04:36 thd  hdl: Other repeated subfields have the data populated in the Koha tables in reverse order with the '|' separator.
04:34 thd  hdl: ISBN is 020 in MARC 21.
04:33 thd  hdl: However, now that subfield ordering is fixed I have noticed a problem for the manner in which all repeated subfields are populating the Koha tables from the MARC record.
04:33 hdl  And there is no difference in code, unless ISBN is UNDER 010... But it is likely  not. So, this OUGHT to be a parameter failure.
04:32 thd  hdl: Other repeatable subfields are being populated in the Koha tables with the '|' separator.  Only ISBN is not now.
04:31 thd  hdl: Do I need to set repeatability for proper import behaviour in 2.2.4?
04:30 thd  hdl:  actually, I did not change the framework since that parameter was added.
04:29 thd  hdl: yes
04:29 hdl  thd : is YOUR MARC ISBN field repeatable ?
04:28 thd  hdl: Something just occurred to me.  Would running bulkmarcimport.pl behave any differently in how the Koha tables are populated with normal acquisitions on than with it off?
04:22 thd  hdl: Prior to 2.2.4 I could just increase the size of biblioitems.isbn to accommodate multiple ISBNs separated by '|' but now I have only one per record in biblioitems.isbn even for MARC records that have more than one ISBN..
04:19 thd  hdl: This is standard Anglo-American cataloguing practise and an easy way to get the popular binding ISBN from a library record.
04:17 thd  hdl: English MARC records often have the multiple ISBNs in one record for the various ISBNs for different bindings of the same title issued by the same publisher..
04:14 thd  hdl: Somewhere repeated subfields are being inserted into Koha table columns with values separated by a piping symbol.  Since 2.2.4 this is no longer happening for ISBNs which would have no difference for French books but for English language books is a problem.
04:13 hdl  thd: what do you mean differently : which peculiar treatment do you expect ?
04:11 thd  hdl: I would have thought that addbiblio was what I was looking for but I do not see anything for treating ISBNs differently from other values.
04:09 hdl  Nope; does it with addbiblio and additem
04:08 thd  hdl: Does bulkmarcimport.pl use rebuildnonmarc.pl to populate the values?
04:05 hdl  thd: rebuildnonmarc.pl in scripts/misc should answer all your questions.
04:03 thd  hdl: I am looking for the script that actually populates the Koha table columns from the MARC data.
04:01 thd  hdl: Is not that a mappings validation script?
04:01 thd  hdl: There has been a change in 2.2.4 with the treatment of how biblioitems.isbn is filled.
04:00 hdl  checkmarc.pl in admin directory.
03:59 thd  ?
03:59 thd  hdl: Can you guide me.
03:58 thd  hdl: I have been trying to find the script that controls how the Koha tables are filled with mapped MARC subfields.
03:57 hdl  hello thd
03:56 thd  hello hdl and paul
03:48 hdl  Everybody hello
21:11 rach dogs are fine, have had their injections but are a little fat after a slothful winter
20:01 thd  rosa: A little more work is incrementing 20 separate copies with unused sequential barcode numbers.  The ISBN barcode can still be used to locate the books.
20:00 rosa be back later
20:00 rosa thd, sorry I've got to gofor a an hour or so
19:59 rosa no, but we often order 6 copies of local publications that we expect to go out of print and stay out of print
19:59 rosa mm that's true. Koha wants individual barcodes tyo receive more than one copy
19:58 thd  rosa: I guess you do not order 20 copies of the same title very often :)
19:57 thd  rosa: exactly, just changing the quantity of an item would be the easiest approach but may not mesh well with individual copy based acquisitions.
19:55 thd  rosa: Koha likes everything to have a unique barcode which is more than a shop needs.
19:55 rosa and each time one was sold you'd drop the inventory by one
19:54 thd  rosa: I would either add a column to the items table to use multiple instances of the same copy or automate the process of adding copies.
19:52 rosa how were you going to cope with mutliple copies?
19:52 thd  rosa: I would attempt to implement something that is actually consistent with a libraries use for the possibility of selling deaccessioned items.
19:51 thd  rosa: The new books already have barcodes with the ISBN.
19:51 rosa or use RFID (which I would have thought was more terrifying than a till)
19:50 rosa Woulkd she have to barcode every copy?
19:50 thd  rosa: Koha already has the code to manage patron transactions.  The items table needs a few new columns to simplify the reference to 20 copies of the same book where a separate bar code should not be needed.
19:50 rosa I think you're right. If you use circulation as sales - once it's gione, it's gone
19:47 thd  rosa: I can always cheat and create functionality that interacts directly with the database where I find deciphering some of the Koha Perl modules a little unfamiliar.
19:45 thd  rosa: She needs to just have some reassurance about how well what is already there works.
19:43 thd  rosa: The gap that I would have to bridge is to persuade the manager that a modest addition to Koha of  managing sales of material in a manner akin to circulation but much simpler is not a difficult project.
19:40 thd  rosa: It is a specialist shop with all decorative arts books, mostly new with some rare used books as well.
19:39 thd  rosa: It is a very friendly small bookshop that does not even have an automated till.
19:39 rosa where the owner actually cares about books?
19:38 rosa this may be the book shop we all dream about?
19:38 rosa oh dear
19:38 thd  s/order entry/sales entry/
19:37 thd  rosa: And she also has no interest in a till module for real time order entry as she suspects hand written receipts will always be faster.
19:36 thd  rosa: Only on Friday did I discover that the bookshop would want to use the acquisitions module for recording orders.
19:34 thd  rach: too much eating the garden can induce illness.  Hope your dog is better soon.
19:32 rach sam itchy - she will help me in the garden the rat, and olive had a stone bruise I think but seems fine now
19:31 rach um no, just cartrophen injections and checkups
19:31 thd  rosa: he was just over anxious about being audited for tax.
19:31 rach yeah I got in lots of trouble with the other till grrls
19:31 rosa dog sick?
19:31 rach ok lunch time for me, then dogs to vets
19:31 rosa a red letter day
19:31 thd  rosa: my business associate had no experience of larger businesses where the idea of counting pennies is laughable.
19:30 rosa anyone who can manage that isn't busy enough
19:29 thd  rosa: I see.  I am certainly accustomed to errors in the system even though I had a business partner who had a fit if the till did not balance to the penny.
19:28 rosa and Rach's comments, too
19:27 rosa staff purchases being coded as library purchases, stock arriving at a different discount from usual and the staff member not remembering to change the setting in Koha.
19:27 thd  rosa: was it stocktaking that you were referring to not accountancy of funds?
19:27 rach but would be bad data entry, exchange rates not quite right I think
19:27 rach so if you run a shop, you'd get that sort of error - better than the 30% that I seem to recall was the old rate :-)
19:26 rach 3% is pretty usual I think error for stock taking in general
19:25 thd  rosa: what accounts for the 3% error?
19:25 rosa no
19:25 rosa within 3% isclose enough for me
19:25 thd  rosa: So you do not export information from one to the other?
19:24 rosa we do not require it to interface with Koha - just to get a close figure for expenditure on books
19:24 thd  rosa: using tracings and references from subject authority records pigs can become hogs in a future version of Koha.
19:23 rosa we use a NZ programme called Cash Manager
19:22 thd  rosa: yes
19:22 rosa by general ledger you mean an accounting programme?
19:21 rosa We have used such a thing in the past, but we've got pickier over the years - some subject headings we use, some we change. The classic Hogs-juvenile literature would be meaningless for a NZ reader looking for the Three little pigs.  Pigs are pigs, not hogs
19:20 thd  rosa: What software do you use for the general ledger at the library?
19:19 thd  rosa: I would have thought that you had a conversion script to do that automatically.
19:18 rosa tend to be subjects
19:18 rosa they are MARC records, but we cut and paste the bits we want
19:17 thd  rosa: What form do the copy catalogue records that you use have before you add them to non-MARC Koha?
19:17 rosa The same word is used for the same service in NZ academic libraries too - as in "the reserved book room"
19:17 rach so you could just go and put in the words that were appropriate to your country/library if it was going to cause problems
19:17 rach the reason we went with HTML templates for the OPAC & Intranet was basically so we didn't all need to argue over terminology :-)
19:16 rach words
19:16 thd  rach: the reserve desk is mostly a feature of large academic libraries where material has been taken for circulation periods reduced to hours rather than days so that more patrons can use the high demand material :)
19:16 rach but I would expect that different countries would have different "normal
19:15 rach Reserves and Requests are the two terms I'd seen used here for the same thing - both less "active" words than "hold"
19:14 rach "clash" of meanings between what a member of the public would understand, and what a librarian might understand, we generally favoured making it easy for the public
19:13 rach where there was a "
19:13 rach depending on what library systems they've used probably
19:13 thd  rach: Reserve is better for ordinary English.  It is just a little confusing as library jargon because reserve has a reserved sense of short circulation material or a special non-circulating reserve collection as distinct from a larger reference collection.
19:13 rach I would expect that librarians would know what you mean by either term here
19:12 rach but reserves are put on books that aren't actually in the library generally
19:11 rach so if you hold something for someone at a shop, you put it behind the counter until the customer can come pick it up
19:11 rach it means the book might not come in for a while - but you're in line for it
19:11 rach there are some words that we use because it's what the patrons understand - hold implies you have it, where as when you reserve it
19:11 thd  rosa: Is 'hold" not part of the NZ library jargon?
19:10 thd  rosa: Koha uses reserve for what I had always found described as hold in library jargon as opposed to ordinary English usage.
19:09 rosa though not always an upgrade!
19:09 rach and can be negative- so if a user put effort into their short records, they might not like the MARC one that came in over the top
19:09 rosa don't airlines use it too?
19:09 rach bump has that more "it could be a surprise" element
19:08 thd  rosa: bump is good.  Upgrade is more common in the US for that function.
19:08 rach :-)
19:07 rosa seems too useful to do wothout
19:07 rosa is this a NZ term?
19:07 rosa terminology used here for replacing an inferior (local, short, temporary) record with the LC or BL record when that record becomes available
19:07 thd  rosa: that is a beneficent bump not an injurious one :)
19:06 rach bump = replace
19:06 rosa Then we tend not to overwrite fiction records, but we do copy nonfiction
19:06 thd  rosa: What do you mean by bump the record?
19:05 rosa We do a mixture. Because we order a lot pre-publication, we have to create short records just as a marker.
19:05 rosa But if you're calm that you cna download a MARC record that will bump the short acquisitions record, I don't see why it wouldn't work
19:04 thd  rosa: Do you do copy cataloguing or just create original records?
19:04 rosa what we don't do is download MARC records
19:03 rosa yep, that works flawlessly for us.
19:03 thd  rosa: and foreign currencies which may be helpful to her as well.
19:03 rosa We specced it so that we could place orders pre-publication(we see a lot of publishers reps) and then receive them at some future date
19:02 rosa and Koha acquisitions manages discounts (varaiable) and local taxes with aplomb
19:01 thd  rosa: However, it would still track the use of a general fund.
19:01 rosa which doesn't seem particularly relevant for a book shop
19:01 thd  rosa: Bookshops order books in the same way that libraries do.
19:00 rosa We use it with prime purpose of managing expenditure in a group of funds (ie subsets of the total budget)
19:00 thd  rosa: The point that I think is especially good about Koha for this bookshop is that it can use MARC records instead of merely publisher records that have very little information.
19:00 rosa it's true. I'm trying to get my head around just how a bookshop would use Koha acquisitions.
18:58 thd  rosa: libraries have better bibliographic records than publishers.
18:57 thd  rosa: The bookshop manager wanted to communicate with people who actually use the system to ask how they liked it in particular with reference to managing acquisitions.
18:57 rosa Are they looking at downloading data from publishers?
18:55 thd  rosa: The smallest bookshop in New York City might adopt Koha if I can persuade them that there is enough there to manage inventory for a bookshop with modest modifications.
18:53 thd  hello rosa
18:52 rosa hi thd
18:47 rach she's head of libraries @ horowhenua public
18:47 rach send them to talk to rosalie - she speced it :-)
18:47 rach are the only 2 I know for certain are
18:47 thd  rach: I need some names and email addresses of someone at libraries using normal acquisitions so that the bookshop I hope will adopt Koha can ask some actual users about how wonderful Koha is or is not.
18:47 rach Horowhenua & rangitikei public libraries
18:40 thd  rach: Which libraries are now using normal acquisitions in Koha?
18:40 thd  rach: I have to provide her with some more confidence.  I told her that I would make some modifications to support inventory control.
18:39 thd  rach: Even in NYC it is mostly chains but in big cities in the US bookshops have difficulty paying the high rents for a good location.
18:37 rach ah yep, we don't have many small bookshops here  - it's mostly chains
18:37 thd  rach: And also that even most librarians will not have heard of koha.
18:36 thd  rach: Her confidence dropped when I told her that no bookshops were know to be using Koha.
18:36 rach oh no, what was that?
18:35 thd  rach: I failed one test with the prospective bookshop Koha user I have, with whom I met Friday.
18:34 rach chris is away today - sending a library live - with all our acqui mods
18:31 thd  chris: I met with someone Friday who actually would want to use it.
18:30 thd  chris: can you tell me if a working normal acquisitions for 2.2.4 is committed to CVS now?
18:28 thd  kados: are you there?