Time  Nick  Message
03:18 paul  bonjour jean
03:45 thd   good morning paul
03:46 thd   paul: are you feeling any better today?
03:56 paul  hi thd. I'm fine now, thanks
03:58 thd   paul:  You had written to koha-devel a few weeks ago about good defaults for the leader to use in MARC 21 and I answered you on #koha.
03:58 paul  yes.
03:59 thd   paul: Had you told me that one of your libraries was migrating from UNIMARC to MARC 21?
04:05 shdl  bonjour
04:06 thd   shdl: Good morning.  Are you related to hdl?
04:07 hdl   asair no.
04:07 thd   :)
04:07 thd   where did paul go?
04:08 hdl   But he is french and work with paul.
04:08 shdl  :) no im not related with hdl
04:08 shdl  :)
04:09 thd   hdl: Both good things :)
04:10 thd   Ah jean, good morning shdl-jean.
04:11 thd   paul: Have you gone away again?
04:15 thd   hdl: As paul seems to have vanished temporarily, can you answer the question that I had posed to him?  Is one of your libraries was migrating from UNIMARC to MARC 21?
04:15 hdl   thd : no, afaik, why ?
04:16 hdl   thd : And why sould they do so ?
04:27 thd   hdl: No reason for them to do so.  Paul had told me some time ago that one of his libraries was going from one MARC standard to the other.  I do not remember which direction.   The importance is that paul had seemed interested in at least one field of MARC 21 defaults.
04:27 thd   hdl: I was wondering what paul's intentions and motivations were for supporting MARC 21 defaults in Koha 3.0 while currently almost all the default support with default frameworks and plugins is understandably for UNIMARC only.  Had he planned to do something more for MARC 21 specifically in Koha 3.0?
04:30 hdl   thd : paul is not koha-3.0 kaitiaki. kados is. And thus, he is more experienced with MARC-21. But we are still involved, so we shall ahve both MARC-21 AND UNIMARC well supported :).
04:32 thd   hdl: How complete is your intention or should I ask kados?
04:54 hdl   should ask paul and kados. but should also make the question more accurate.
05:01 paul  thd => i'm back
05:01 paul  in france, we use almost only unimarc, so i'm not marc21 specialist.
05:02 paul  afaik, the only thing that won't work with marc21 are unimarc_* plugins
05:02 paul  and they have no equivalent in marc21 as nobody developped them.
05:02 paul  but frameworks / authorised values / authority mechanism should work whatever the marc flavour.
05:03 paul  at least that's what I expect !
05:03 thd   paul: Is one of your libraries changing MARC formats or has already changed MARC formats?
05:03 paul  yes, marc21 => unimarc
05:05 thd   paul: I had wondered why you had asked about leader defaults for MARC 21 unless you were planning to add default prepackaged plugins for MARC 21 to Koha 3.0?
05:06 paul  i have no plans for marc21. except that, when developping the leader  plugin for unimarc, I also decided to create the plugin for marc21.
05:06 paul  as they were close.
05:06 paul  (although not exactly the same)
05:06 paul  so now, there is 1 plugin for marc21, you're right, the leader one !
05:06 paul  hdl : update your cvs, i've just commited Biblio.pm fix
05:07 hdl   ok.
05:07 thd   paul: Yes they are very close, too bad they could not be exact.  That would be too nice to be true :)
05:10 thd   paul: I have a concern that kados has not seen closely how the frameworks and plugin support work based on the message he posted yesterday with this URL http://www.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/wiki/doku.php?id=catalogingproject)
05:13 thd   paul: Of course I should ask kados about this.  He is not up yet I suspect.  Certainly, after all it is only a class exercise but a 10n week class is not enough time to learn MARC well enough to start to design a good MARC editor :)
05:14 paul  in fact, we spoke of this project a little yesterday.
05:14 paul  my opinion is that, for instance, we have 2 cataloguing tools in Koha :
05:15 paul  * MARC=OFF => the one for ppl that don't want to hear anything from MARC
05:15 paul  * MARC=ON => the one for ppl that speak MARC, but don't dream of it every night.
05:16 paul  we need a 3rd tool for ppl that "dream" MARC. I mean, a tool where the user can do whatever he want,
05:16 paul  with being guided when he want. and when he want only !
05:18 thd   paul: I suspect that kados has not seen the benefits of the frameworks and plugins, as well as authority support.  The good default configurations are for UNIMARC.  The NPL templates do not support authority editing so no one at NPL is likely to have looked at authority support in Koha.
05:20 thd   paul: Do you mean for the third tool something like a conventional MARC editor where editing MARC is more like editing in a text editor than with guided forms?
05:24 thd   I did tell owen that I would write something to help assist him in seeing how authority records work presently in Koha, if I have the time to do so this week.
05:27 thd   paul: I assume you are familiar with conventional text editor like MARC record editors.  Is that what you mean as a tool for those who dream in MARC where the user can do whatever he would like?
05:31 thd   paul: I imagine that a competent conventional text editor for MARC records could be built as part of a ten week class.
05:37 thd   paul: Building a guided forms based editor is something I dream about for MARC or anything else.  Designing that correctly for MARC requires more familiarity with MARC than students are likely to acquire quickly enough during a ten week class unless they were already familiar with MARC, which does not seem to be expected for this class.
05:45 thd   paul: what do you mean by "guided when he want, and when he want only"?  Does that mean that value lists or plugins would be accessible from a link or button, adjacent to a text box.  How do you envision combining the doing "whatever he want" with the "guided when he want"?
05:48 thd   paul: have you vanished again?
06:19 paul  thd : was at lunch (remember i'm gmt+2 ;-) )
06:20 paul  I will try to write a small concept screenshot asap
06:21 thd   paul: I never mean to detain anyone from eating or sleeping aside from myself :)
06:21 paul  :-D
06:22 thd   paul: When do you depart for yellow fever country?
06:22 paul  saturday, 24
06:22 paul  but next week, i'm 3 days in Paris (for Koha teaching)
06:23 paul  (mon -> wed)
06:26 thd   paul: If you have time before your departure for Paris to identify you concept for different forms of record editing I would be pleased.  I would be just as happy with more words or even ASCII art :)
10:00 owen  paul, you around?
10:00 paul  yep
10:00 paul  morning owen
10:01 owen  Hi.  I'm wondering when you plan to release 2.2.4?
10:01 paul  working on french this afternoon
10:01 paul  2.2.4RC1 for hdl & me tomorrow
10:02 paul  public release next friday (before my departure for burkina)
10:02 paul  hdl has 1 install to do, me too.
10:02 paul  we will test the release before official release.
10:02 owen  Friday 16 September ?
10:02 paul  no, 23
10:02 owen  Oh, okay.
10:03 owen  You said it correctly, I just wanted to be absolutely sure
10:03 owen  That will give me plenty of time to catch up the NPL templates.
11:41 hdl   kados around ?
11:41 kados hdl: yep
11:42 hdl   we happened to encounter a new record type last week.
11:42 kados yea?
11:42 kados SUTRS perhaps? ;-)
11:42 hdl   Do you remember in which package we should have  used ?
11:43 kados no ... I don't ...
11:43 hdl   GRS1 Afair
11:43 kados right
11:43 kados but I do know that I had to change USMARC to MARC21  in the processqueue
11:43 hdl   I did a perldoc. But can't remember wichi function I looked for.
11:43 kados to get MARC21 records