Time  Nick      Message
11:59 kados     hdl: which is quite impossible in this case
11:58 kados     hdl: it only works if staff manually edits the marc record
11:58 kados     hdl: so if I have notforloan=>1 = 'checked out' Koha does not know to update this when an item is checked out
11:58 kados     hdl: is that notforloan statuses are not updated automatically by Koha
11:57 kados     hdl: more important now I think
11:57 kados     hdl: and committed the fix
11:57 kados     hdl: I recently replied to myself about this
11:57 kados     hdl: yes ... paul and I already discussed this and it's now fixed
11:57 hdl       But maybe I misunderstood the question.
11:56 hdl       IMHO, I think that both notforloan on items and itemtype are needed... in tha way that an item which can be borrowed according to its itemtype may happen not to be borrowable since it is too old, to damaged.
11:55 hdl       kados: about your question.
11:52 kados     hdl: (I don't know the reason addbiblio loses leaders ... all I know is that it does ;-))
11:51 hdl       I have seen but not read atm
11:51 hdl       Maybe because there was no tag so it was quite a difference from MARC::Record.
11:51 kados     hdl: have you read my email to koha-devel?
11:51 kados     hdl: I have a proposal about statuses
11:49 kados     hdl: I'm not sure if breeding scripts may be responsible too
11:49 kados     hdl: simply because addbiblio loses leaders
11:49 kados     hdl: note that in most koha installation you must 'save' the biblio before going to 'items' ... so adding a new item to a biblio automatically results in losing the leader for that record ... even if it was there to begin with
11:49 hdl       Is this a problem of MARC::RECORD or simply because addbiblio loose leaders
11:48 kados     hdl: but if they then edit the record with addbiblio it is lost
11:48 kados     hdl: so if your client imports records with bulkmarcimport the leader is preserved
11:47 kados     hdl: it only works for bulkmarcimport
11:47 hdl       What about leader management that paul designed a few weeks ago ?
11:46 kados     hdl: leaders cannot be 'auto-generated' they must be hand-crafted by a librarian
11:45 kados     so it's a real problem
11:45 kados     and in Koha 3.0 we plan to use leaders for some functions
11:44 kados     not in Koha 2.2 ... but they will never have valid marc records again ;-)
11:44 hdl       is it ?
11:44 hdl       For internal use, it is not a problem.
11:43 kados     hdl: if they use it they will lose all their leaders
11:43 kados     hdl: you should warn your clients not to us Koha's internal cataloging!
11:42 kados     hdl: I may try later today but i was sick of it for now ;-)
11:42 kados     hdl: and that's where I gave up ;-)
11:42 kados     hdl: so I would need to include MARC::Record in processqueue
11:42 kados     hdl: I tried that but Net::Z3950 doesn't have a 'as_formated' method
11:41 hdl       If you give a try with printing marc records, tell me about it.
11:41 hdl       Gosh !
11:41 kados     hdl: it's a big bug
11:41 kados     hdl: the leader is lost !!
11:41 kados     hdl: but if that record is then edited with addbiblio (say to add a new item)
11:41 kados     hdl: in fact, when a record is added with bulkmarcimport the leader is preserved
11:40 kados     hdl: so there is data loss when a cataloger uses Koha's internal cataloging
11:40 kados     hdl: a bigger problem is that the leader does not appear in addbiblio
11:40 hdl       ok.
11:40 kados     hdl: in fact, I've given up for today ;-)
11:39 kados     hdl: nope
11:39 hdl       kados, is you problem solved ?
11:39 hdl       bonne soirée.
11:38 paul_away (le pb du netserver, c'est qu'il a un disque IDE, pas bon pour les perfs...)
11:38 paul_away là, away pour de bon
11:38 paul_away on en reparle jeudi si tu veux bien.
11:38 paul_away mmm... je vais y réfléchir.
11:38 hdl       En fait, c'est Madame jarroux qui a été gênée dans ses tests par mes déconnexions à cause de l'orage.
11:37 hdl       Mais ca a ses risques.
11:37 hdl       Ca permettrai de se libérer de ces problèmes de connexion.
11:37 hdl       pour les clients.
11:37 hdl       Je voulais savoir si l'on pouvait utiliser le netserver avec des bases de tests.
11:36 paul_away still here (but leaving...)
11:36 hdl       paul_away, ne pars pas maintenant...
11:36 hdl       paul encore dans les parages ?
10:41 kados     could that be a problem?
10:41 kados     No directory, logging in with HOME=/
10:41 kados     when I first run 'z3950daemon-launch.sh' (as root) I get:
10:36 kados     I wonder if I need to do a 'warn'
10:36 kados     hmmm ... I added this line but nothing shows up in the log
10:34 hdl       then you could know what you receive.
10:34 hdl       you can add print $rec->as_formatted;
10:33 hdl       line 283
10:33 kados     ok ... I'll try it
10:33 hdl       in processz3950queue, you could print the marcrecord you get.
10:32 hdl       kados : simple idea.
10:31 kados     always the problem ;-) we're using two different MARCs ;-)
10:31 kados     paul: ip/port/db name for USMARC?
10:31 paul      an unimarc one ?
10:30 kados     paul: can you or hdl send me a 'known good' Z3950 server config?
10:27 paul      (i've seen this once in France, where a server returning UNIMARC wanted a type=usmarc even !)
10:27 paul      (like returning an empty string if you don't specify the format you want as they expect)
10:26 paul      (because sometimes, z3950 servers have strange behaviours)
10:26 paul      did you try with loc ?
10:26 paul      so we should investigate to understand why it does not work for you ;-)
10:26 paul      kados : almost all my libraries uses it.
10:22 kados     paul: so I assume none of your libraries use this feature?
10:22 kados     switched to default for nbbc and I get same error as with NPL
10:18 owen      It doesn't seem to be working on NPL's test server, even in the default template
10:17 kados     paul: and nothing in marc_breeding
10:17 kados     paul: same problem
10:17 kados     ok done ... I'll retest
10:16 paul      yes
10:16 kados     paul: marc_breeding?
10:15 paul      (it's a "delete from breeding", not a Koha feature)
10:15 kados     paul: done even
10:15 kados     paul: how is it doen?
10:15 kados     paul: didn't know I needed to
10:15 paul      (the one that contains the reservoir)
10:14 paul      did you empty the breeding table ?
10:14 kados     paul: exactly
10:14 kados     owen: well ... on nbbc production
10:14 paul      the log shows results, and the window says "no results"
10:14 owen      Where are you testing?
10:14 paul      I think it's exactly the problem we had with z3950 client on results "disappearing".
10:14 kados     have you ever gotten z3950 search results to display with NPL templates?
10:13 owen      Sorry...wasn't following.
10:13 kados     owen: what do you think?
10:13 kados     I wonder if it could be a template problem
10:13 kados     Nothing found
10:13 kados     Z3950 Search Results
10:13 kados     but the user sees:
10:13 kados     21517/19 : melvyl.cdlib.org:210 search done.
10:13 kados     21517/19 : MELVYL : 1 records found, retrieving them (max 80)
10:13 kados     21517/19 : connected to MELVYL
10:13 kados     21517/19 : creating and 21517/19 : working on results entry 23
10:12 kados     21517/19 : 2 >>
10:12 kados     21517/19 : Processing isbn=0380788624 at MELVYL melvyl.cdlib.org:210 CDL90 USMARC (2 forks)
10:12 kados     paul: here is the log entries:
10:10 kados     but the log shows results
10:10 kados     yes
10:10 paul      whatever you search, you get an empty result ?
10:09 kados     so I search by 0060512806
10:09 paul      (under certain circumstances)
10:09 kados     I can't see it but when I do a Z3950 search using the ISBN I get a result in the log
10:09 paul      (because i think there might be a bug if no isbn)
10:09 paul      is there an isbn is the retrieved record ?
10:09 kados     paul: in catalog or in resevoir
10:08 kados     paul: nothing found using the ISBN
10:07 paul      (because the check uses primarily the isbn)
10:06 kados     no ... I will do so now
10:06 paul      did you also check the ISBN ?
10:06 kados     I have checked several times ;-)
10:06 paul      so my question :
10:06 kados     but it does not exist ;-)
10:06 paul      that's why we think it may be a "discarded because it exist"
10:06 kados     but they are not visable to the user
10:05 kados     the log shows that it has found some results
10:05 kados     searching by title
10:05 paul      mmm... isbn checked ?
10:05 kados     and the record does not exist in the resevoir
10:04 kados     the library does not own this title
10:04 kados     in this case, I'm searching for a title called 'cryptonomicon'
10:04 kados     hmmm
10:04 paul      does this help ?
10:04 paul      that's why, for example, you can't do a "loop" with koha z3950 client querying  koha z3950 server
10:03 paul      when a MARC record is retrieved, if it is already in the DB, it's discarded
10:03 paul      kados, i'm here
10:01 kados     paul: do you have any comments?
10:01 kados     unless I'm not understanding what z3950/search.pl is supposed to do
10:00 kados     so a cataloger cannot add them to resevoir
10:00 kados     but ... for some reason, it's not listing them
09:59 kados     well ... the log shows that Koha's Z3950 client is finding records
09:59 hdl       I can provide you with a testZ3950.pl file
09:59 hdl       Maybe you could try with external tools.
09:58 kados     also, the titles are not in the resevoir
09:57 kados     I've tried several titles that are not in the catalog
09:57 kados     well in this case, it's definitely not ;-)
09:56 hdl       I have had problems with this. But paul stated that was because it was already in base.
09:53 kados     hdl: any ideas?
09:51 kados     21222/16 : melvyl.cdlib.org:210 search done.
09:51 kados     21222/16 : MELVYL : melvyl.cdlib.org:210 records retrieved 2 SPEED: 2
09:51 kados     21222/16 : MELVYL : 2 records found, retrieving them (max 80)
09:51 kados     hdl: here's the last entries in log:
09:51 kados     hdl: title search
09:51 hdl       or author search ?
09:50 hdl       Did you try ISBN search ?
09:50 hdl       AHA!!!
09:50 kados     hdl: I'm not searching for an already existing biblio in this case
09:49 hdl       if you search for biblio you already have, doesnot say anithing, but answers no results.
09:49 kados     hdl: ok ... that seems to have fixed that specific bug ... but I still get 'no results found' when in the log there are results
09:48 kados     hdl: ok ... I'll test it
09:47 hdl       replace the second 0 with "" for instance.
09:47 hdl       refresh => ($numberpending eq 0 ? 0 : "search.pl?bibid=$bibid&random=$random"),
09:46 hdl       kados : line 103 in search.pl file in z3950 directory
09:42 hdl       In fact, you have to change the return value of a function which sometimes return a string and sometimes an int.
09:41 hdl       yes.
09:39 kados     is there a solution?
09:39 hdl       known problem.
09:39 hdl       Yes...
09:39 kados     [Tue Sep 06 08:36:54 2005] [error] [client 66.213.78.2] script not found or unable to stat: /home/nbbc/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/z3950/0
09:39 kados     hdl: but I get an error in the other log:
09:39 kados     hdl: I run a query, it finds a result (I can tell from the log)
09:39 kados     hdl: I'm having a strange problem with the cataloging Z39.50 client in Koha
09:38 kados     hdl: hi there
07:49 paul      j'ai pris un onduleur basique, pour 1PC 300W + écran + 1 prise régulée (pour mon bon vieux speedtouch home)
07:48 paul      mmm... je ne me souviens plus de ce que j'ai acheté.
07:48 hdl       Il en faut un de 750 VA Non ?
07:48 hdl       Je vais voir.
07:47 hdl       En tout cas, pas par rapport à la machine.
07:47 paul      (c'est sérieux)
07:47 paul      bon, allez, je t'ouvre un crédit pour acheter un onduleur
07:47 paul      c'est pas très cher et quand même bien rassurant...
07:47 hdl       Dieu merci, rien de grave.
07:46 hdl       Pendant que j'arrêtais ma machine, un gros pétard a éclaté bien prêt.
07:46 hdl       J'ai failli.
07:46 osmoze    pas touché hdl ? J ai regardé les infos a midi, c est pas beau vers chez toi
07:43 hdl       Saleté d'orages...
07:20 kados     /ni/nick kados
05:11 chris     laurels dad has been making dvd's of everything
05:10 chris     i could bore you with the dvd of the wedding too :-)
05:09 si        now we're talking
05:09 si        ohh, there's video?
05:09 chris     slow learner obviously
05:09 chris     i used to do them on the back porch and get the it stuck between the slats and trip on them
05:09 chris     ill have to show you the video some time we converted it from my grandmas super8 camera thing
05:09 si        really
05:08 chris     rules=rulers
05:08 chris     yep
05:08 si        when you pinch players from all over the souther hemisphere
05:07 chris     ill have to wait till the next big test to see :)
05:07 si        as you do
05:07 chris     i think they even slipped a couple of samoan and fijian actions into it
04:58 chris     has the translation of both of them
04:58 chris     http://www.nzallblacks.net/haka.asp
04:56 chris     yep ill find it for you
04:56 chris     my brother in laws cousin wrote the new one
04:55 chris     yeah the new one is can only really be done in nz, its about how this is their land
04:55 si        it is hard to make up a truly unique dance move, though
04:54 chris     the new one is new words, but the actions are a mish mash of other hakas
04:54 si        the new one just says "heads up, this is going to hurt" as far as I can tell
04:54 si        the old one, that is
04:53 chris     thats right
04:53 si        paul: the haka actually describes his joy at surviving an invasion from his enemies by hiding in a kumara pit, if my memory serves
04:52 chris     he was certainly smart
04:52 si        and he did build a stunning church
04:52 si        it's all a matter of perspective
04:51 si        paul: lest you get the wrong idea, he was a local hero in the area I grew up
04:48 chris     it predates the all blacks .. and in fact predates new zealand :-)
04:45 chris     its about a man called Te Rauparaha who was a particularly ruthless and bloodthirsty man
04:44 chris     the old all black haka is not about the all blacks or rugby at all paul
04:44 chris     yeah, everyone from kapiti south ;)
04:44 si        he was pretty unselective about who he killed
04:43 si        not just yor relations, mind
04:43 chris     (the old haka that is)
04:43 chris     plus its about a man who was responsible for the death of a lot of my relations
04:43 si        so you can be sure that the rugby union will be keeping very close tabs on the new haka
04:42 si        paul: one suggestion is that the old haka isn't copywritable, since it's in the public domain (being over 100 years old)
04:42 chris     they will only ever do that haka in new zealand
04:42 chris     yep
04:42 paul      some things that may look common for kiwis can be really strange for strangers
04:41 paul      but all blacks are world-wide famous, so they should be carefull. imho
04:41 si        well indeed, throat slitting is pretty commonplace in schoolboy haka
04:40 chris     throat slitting is pretty tame
04:40 paul      in france, many ppl where really angry with it.
04:40 chris     who obviously had never seen a real haka before
04:40 paul      the noise was about the throat slitting.
04:40 si        which did suprise a few folks
04:40 chris     they are keeping both, and using the new one on special occassions
04:40 si        other than the throat slitting
04:39 chris     yes, it was a suprise to us, but everyone really liked it
04:39 chris     did you like it paul?
04:38 paul      because in France it did !
04:38 paul      did the last Aka from all blacks make noise in NZ ?
04:38 paul      chris : some minuts to speak of rugby ?
04:26 paul      yes, of course.
04:26 shaun     it won't be long... i take it you saw the design?
04:20 paul      I saw the link, I was looking for something without .htaccess restriction ;-)
04:19 shaun     yep, koha2.edit.katipo.co.nz, but unfortunately it's currently restricted to content editors
04:19 shaun     paul: hi
04:18 paul      is there a private url to see the future website ?
04:17 paul      ih shaun
03:53 paul_away oups, alt-F4 par erreur
03:52 osmoze    ok
03:52 paul      il y a eu 2 annonces.
03:52 paul      pas de diff ou de patch.
03:52 paul      j'annonce sur la liste les bugs bloquants/critiques avec leur fix.
03:52 paul      tu veux dire sources publiques ?
03:51 osmoze    paul, comment cela marche pour les correction avant la 2.2.4 ? Il y a une mise a jour des sources avec les correction petit a petit pour la 2.2.3 ou pas ?
03:26 osmoze    -er +ais
03:26 osmoze    je retrouver en retrouvant les erreurs :)
03:17 hdl       Rafraîchis ma mémoire.
03:17 hdl       très vaguement.
03:17 paul      salut jseb
03:17 osmoze    bonjour paul :)
03:16 osmoze    hdl>  te souviens tu d un fichier sur les bilans me semble t il que tu m avais modifier en partie et qu il fallait que je continu suivant ton modele ?
03:13 hdl       hello
02:12 osmoze    hello
17:58 thd       kados: perhaps the Argentines were trying to build codes that worked like ISBNs with a country code prefix.
17:55 thd       kados: ISBNs have county built into the code, but the country prefix is expected to be part of the 10 digit and soon to be 13 digit code.
17:51 thd       kados: When I have written barcode generation routines,  I used code 39.   No error checking, but much easier to implement.  The encoded '*' is the start and stop character, '*BARCODENUMBER*'.  Code 128 is a much more compact symbology and better in every way except ease of programming.
17:45 thd       kados: my suggestion is that the Argentines are either using a different type or differently configured scanner from yours or Koha is missing a routine a custom routine to parse the input from the scanner.
17:42 thd       kados: unless of course the scanner internal software is expected to strip everything out except your barcode.  Not all barcode scanners have the programming logic for that in the scanner.  Some expect the application program to supply the logic.
17:40 kados     thd: not sure yet
17:40 thd       kados: what is the purpose of the country code?
17:40 kados     thd: I should re-read it
17:40 kados     thd: I didn't get that from your email at all
17:40 kados     thd: really?
17:39 thd       kados: The suggestion from my message is that Koha is missing some of the code to use their barcode generation code correctly.
17:39 kados     thd: with more on the way ;-)
17:38 kados     thd: I already committed one fix
17:38 kados     thd: naw ... I'm reading the code ;-)
17:37 thd       kados: have you enquired with the Argentines about barcode generation?
17:36 thd       a tessellating chocolate fish :)
17:34 kados     hehe ... now I think I remember chris mentioning it at some point
17:34 kados     :-)
17:34 russ      marshmallow fish with with a little bit of caramel coated in a thin layer of chocolate
17:33 russ      something that often gets given out a small reward for doing something
17:33 russ      http://www.silverfernz.com/prodView.asp?idProduct=388 - it is a kiwi thing
17:32 kados     but it's probably got something to do with being late getting something done ;-)
17:31 kados     no ;-)
17:28 russ      great
17:23 kados     russ: I've got 'history' about 50% done as well
17:17 russ      doing an email now
17:17 russ      hi guys - content status report - http://www.russandsarah.gen.nz/kohawebredev/content-status-good.html
17:16 rach      for all it's faults at least we know how kea works, and how to tweak it if necessary
17:15 rach      so we (katipo) still want to give it a go, but we want a website up more :-)
17:15 thd       rach: needing Java is a big strike from the start.
17:14 rach      it needed java to run and the good volunteers didn't have time/energy to learn how to use it
17:11 thd       russ: my email had asked about why Open CMS was dropped.  I did have some understanding of why Mambo had been dropped which was your reply.  Why was Open CMS dropped after all the trouble installing it?
17:08 thd       kados: are you still there?
17:01 thd       russ: aspell or ispell spell checking does not fix everything, like my dropped words or poor word order.  Occasionally, it makes things much worse when I select the wrong misspelling suggested correction.
16:57 thd       kados: I would like to have the MARC schema supporting every field indicator and subfield so that I could use it with confidence.  Single record importing with breeding.pl is more natural than using bulkmarcimport.pl .
16:55 russ      :-) now that is a good idea
16:51 thd       russ: I never type correctly.   I now have a spell check plug-in for X-Chat at home.
16:49 thd       kados: I mistrust the import scripts aside from bulkmarcimport.pl.  The others only import the what is included in the MARC schema.  Paul considers that a feature, as may well be.  However I mistrust the schema as well.   I am rewriting the Z39.50 client to use bulkmarkimport.pl and bypass everything else.
16:49 russ      typing requires at least 2 coffees
16:49 russ      sorry only one coffee so far this morning
16:43 kados     thd: s/cna/can/ ;-)
16:43 kados     thd: but the leader doesn't show up
16:43 thd       russ: 'cna'?
16:43 kados     thd: every other field seems to be fine
16:43 kados     thd: maybe ... but it could also be a problem when breeding.pl imports the file right?
16:40 thd       kados: you meant the version of addbiblo with 'leader management'
16:40 russ      cool guys - i'll finish this, and maybe we cna get a chance to discuss in a little while
16:39 kados     I wonder if paul forgot
16:39 thd       russ:  I have been devoting several hours each day since Saturday to writing and becoming familiar with some features that I had never looked at closely in Koha.
16:39 kados     I don't see any commits related to leader for breeding.pl
16:37 kados     thd: I'll check breeding.pl
16:36 kados     thd: right ... from what I can tell I've got the version of addbiblio that has record management
16:36 thd       kados: the leader question: You will not have a leader for records imported before the fix where the leader had been stripped off.
16:35 kados     russ: great ... sorry I've been behind in writing
16:35 russ      hi thd and kados - i am just preparing a summary of where we are at with the content, you should have it in your inbox within the hour
16:31 kados     cool you've got a client
16:31 thd       kados: I will have October to actually implement it but I need to know enough to specify the lowest possible price in advance.
16:30 thd       kados: I do need to have it all working with a very low price for a bookshop client by the 22 September.
16:28 thd       kados: I had been working on rewriting the Z39.50 client so I have not experimented with bulkmarkimport stage recently.
16:27 kados     thought you would have had an essay on it by now ;-)
16:27 kados     ahh
16:26 kados     thd: (leader doesn't seem to be working for me when I use addbiblio.pl and items that have previously been imported into the resevoir
16:26 thd       kados: I assume that you would know better than I as I never installed the leader fix, yet :)
16:26 kados     thd: also, are there any 'gotchas' for resevoir-imported records that you know of (asside from the normal ones that also apply to bulkmarcimport)
16:25 kados     thd: do you know if the leader is working for resivoir-imported records?
16:25 thd       kados: you had asked for me earlier.  What had you wanted?
16:23 thd       hello kados
16:22 kados     thd: hi
16:21 thd       kados: I am paying attention now :)
16:03 rach      bonjour
13:55 kados     thd: you around?
13:55 kados     hdl: you around?