Time Nick Message 11:51 thd owen: sorry, I was up last night nursing a file system issue. I got too late a start again today :) 11:48 thd owen: I was going to confirm that with paul in case of some hidden error but he became paul-away at that moment. 11:47 thd owen: They certainly seem to be. 11:47 thd tim: had you selected a range of biblionumbers? The ones that Koha stores, not the ones from your old 001 fields? 11:47 owen So it shouldnt' say "items are NOT exported by this tool"...because they are? 11:44 thd owen: above 11:44 thd wen: just a suggestion to remove it from the templates if the message is as out of date as it appears to be. 11:37 tim When I tried MARC export, it exported everything when I just asked it to export 10 records. 11:30 kados owen: I think it's just a bogus message 11:30 owen thd: a problem with the template? 11:28 thd owen: There is a message for MARC export falsely claiming that items will not be exported. 11:10 kados :-) 11:10 kados gotcha 11:10 owen The translator's being a little vague 11:10 owen No, I just wanted to confirm before I wrote the error message 11:09 kados owen: not a bad thing though is it? 11:09 kados owen: could be ... I haven't checked 11:07 owen kados: it looks like the password updater requires a six-character password. Is that correct? 11:07 thd Good evening paul 11:07 paul (not today, it's 6Pm in France, i'll leave in some minuts) 11:06 paul yes. 11:06 paul I don't know why it would happend a |, but i'll try when I have some time. 11:06 thd paul: But you did write the code once, did you not? :) 11:05 thd paul: He told me last night that he had been too busy to report it or ask you about it. 11:03 thd paul: kados thinks he found a bug in rebuildnonmarc.pl last weekend. He said that it seemed to be putting '|' in the itemtypes. 10:57 thd paul: The docs indicate sometimes not. When would it not be necessary? 10:56 paul (it is) 10:56 paul usually yes. 10:56 thd paul: When is it necessary or not to run rebuild non-MARC after chnging MARC to Koha links? 10:48 thd paul: Which people think that France will change to MARC 21? :) 10:47 paul afaik yes 10:47 thd paul: Is BnF is the only place INTERMARC is still used internally? 10:46 thd paul: BnF claims some data loss in converting INTERMARC to UNIMARC. 10:46 paul (some translation info : PEB = ILL) 10:45 paul http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/ 10:44 thd paul: what is the URL for the SUDOC OPAC? 10:43 thd tim :) 10:42 tim Thanks thd and paul 10:42 paul but if you want to check availability, you must look at local ILS 10:42 tim I had to set the Lock_tables_priv to Y in the db table to get it to work. It was one of the columns that didn't exist on the other server. 10:42 paul if you query the SUDOC, you can find who has a given material. 10:42 paul and it's included in local ILS 10:42 paul then every night, the sudoc sends a file by ftp with all changes from the day, 10:41 paul (with a proprietary software) 10:41 paul all libraries MUST use sudoc as cataloguing tool. 10:41 paul I explain : 10:41 paul none of them. 10:40 thd paul: SUDOC is a network or is it also an ILS? 10:40 paul marc21 !!!! 10:40 paul ... 10:40 paul ... 10:40 paul (note that it seems that some ppl expect france going to change once again, for ... 10:40 paul & school ministry as well as culture ministry want everybody using unimarc 10:39 paul french universities all uses SUDOC (mandatory system), that is un UNIMARC 10:39 thd paul: internally is what I meant 10:39 paul but all products are unimarc by default 10:39 paul internally they use it 10:39 paul not really. 10:38 thd paul: BnF still uses INTERMARC 10:38 paul thd : no, it's UNIMARC 10:38 thd paul: Is INTERMARC still the norm in French university libraries or such libraries with the richest collections? 10:37 tim The mysql database has more columns in the tables on the new install. 10:35 thd paul: One important one is the German MAG. Perhaps the may be a way of converting it to ISO 2709. Maybe that means converting it to UNIMARC instead of something more trivial. 10:32 paul no 10:31 thd paul: Do you know of anything for processing the non-ISO2709 MARCS? 10:29 thd paul: OK I had searched every doc and comment I could find for something like as_unimarc and as_intermarc :) 10:29 tim I'm comparing permissions with the test server to see where the problem is. 10:28 thd tim: Whatever user you use to start bulkmarcimport.pl the kohaadmin user is found and used to connect to the database. If you add more permissions for the kohaadmin user the error will go away. It does not seem to be an imortant error though. 10:26 tim Nope. Didn't change it. That's what I was thinking because of the error, but this is a fresh install. Nothing's been changed. 10:25 thd tim: bulkmarcimport is accessing the database as the kohaadmin user unless you changed the source code. 10:24 tim I never had to mess with permissions on the other installs. I'll check into it anyway. 10:24 tim I'm using sudo to run bulkmarcimport as root. 10:23 thd tim: That is a database permissions error for the kohaadmin user. If you grant more permissions, I do not remember which one, to the kohaadmin user the error will go away. 10:22 paul tim => check the user running bulkmarcimport can read /etc/koha.conf 10:22 paul if the MARC::Record contains UNIMARC semantics, it works perfectly. 10:21 paul because when you call ->as_usmarc for example, you mean "as_iso2709()" in fact 10:21 paul in fact, it's what I said yesterday : the module should have been called "iso2709::Record" 10:21 paul thd i've understood the question. 10:20 thd paul: Well I would have to find that example code. Maybe 'usmarc'wa an unnecessary component of the example . 10:19 tim I get an access denied error (many) trying to do a bulkmarcimport, but it looks like it's going into the database anyway. 10:19 paul ??? 10:19 thd paul: why does code calling MARC::ecord use 'usmarc'? 10:18 paul (looking for 200 / 245 would be a solution, but un-official) 10:17 thd paul: Would there be a way to determine automatically? 10:17 paul I think 10:17 thd paul: Must the user must inform the application always? 10:16 paul + coded informations only in 1xx UNIMARC 10:16 paul + editor / publishing year 10:16 paul it usually gives you a good idea. 10:15 paul searching for title/author 10:15 paul when you look with a human eye, you can find 10:15 paul (I mean automatically) 10:15 paul I don't ! 10:15 thd ? 10:15 thd paul: How do you determine flavour from an unknown record 10:14 paul but there's no way to "find" this in iso2709 10:14 paul ! 10:14 paul while it's 245$a in MARC21 10:14 paul because 200$a means title in UNIMARC 10:13 paul (what has always be strange to me is that an iso2709 don't say anywhere "i'm UNIMARC" or "i'm MARC21") 10:13 paul and we use them a lot. 10:13 paul all other are MARC flavour independant. 10:13 paul I said we just ignore 2 methods of MARc::Record : ->title() and ->author() 10:12 thd paul: OK. I had asked about the support for different flavours of MARC in MARC::Record. 10:11 paul koha make HIGH use of MARC::Record ! 10:11 paul (and as I never drink alcohol...) 10:10 paul (or i was drunk ;-) ) 10:10 paul no 10:10 thd paul: you had said that Koha does not use MARC::Record 09:57 kados ahh ;-) 09:56 paul i resize to 1024 with webdev ;-) 09:55 kados with the click of a button ;-) 09:55 kados the Firefix Web Developer plugin allows you to custommize browser sizes to it's easy to check 09:54 kados (and I suspect elsewhere too) 09:54 kados because at NPL many librarians must use this resolution 09:54 kados I always resort to checking 800x600 09:54 kados better ... 09:52 paul should be better now. 09:50 kados so now you need more margin on the buttons ;-) 09:50 kados on bull-home (now) the buttons on the right-hand side are scrunched together and they ovverlap 09:48 paul right, go to see another page ;-) 09:48 osmoze that this owen 09:48 kados yes 09:48 paul (you mean in serial-issues.pl with selectview=complete ?) 09:47 paul (like this ?) 09:47 kados also, rolling over 'back to biblio', the text is crossed out 09:47 kados especially those on the 'complete view' page 09:46 kados I think you need a bit more padding around the text 09:45 paul (with 3 variables) 09:45 paul we could even say "Vol 2005-1 N°124" 09:45 kados I have a general commment about the buttons 09:45 owen If we used it, it might say "Vol. IV, No. 3" 09:45 paul right owen. 09:44 owen So it's up to the library to set it 09:44 kados ok 09:44 paul it's not koha-calculated 09:44 owen That's generated by the numbering formula, right Paul? 09:44 paul the N° has been typed by EMN 09:44 paul (without anything after the -> to say the subscription is still "alive") 09:44 kados how about just the numbers without the N 09:44 paul (in french, it should be written N° 233 -> ) 09:44 kados N° is confusing 09:43 paul N°233 -> 239 ? 09:43 paul what would you expect ? 09:43 kados Recieved Issue is a bit confusing: ,N° 233,N° 234,N° 235,N° 236,N° 237,N° 238,N° 239 09:42 owen I agree with kados. I'm used to seeing titles as links 09:41 kados paul: /me is used to titles as links 09:41 kados paul: dunno ... :-) 09:41 paul why do you want to do this ? 09:40 kados paul: paul can't I click on the title from the initial search results to go to the item? 09:39 paul so i'll remove this feature. 09:39 owen I think the ISSN button isn't very clear to a new user. The title attribute helps a little. 09:39 paul it seems it was a bad idea (everybody here complains about it ;-) ) 09:39 paul in 2.2.3, you can delete a subscription only if there is no serial. 09:39 paul (wrong subscription) 09:39 paul "don't use, wrong biblio" 09:39 kados paul: paul false note? 09:38 kados paul: what is NE PAS BULLETINER !!!! NOTICE FAUSSE 09:38 owen paul: Recieve -> Receive 09:37 kados paul: Began on ... is fine 09:37 kados paul: IMO you don't need _It_ began on ... 09:36 paul that's 3 subscriptions for the same title 09:35 kados paul: but I only see one subscription with three notes ;-) 09:35 kados paul: ok i see now 09:35 paul because between subscription detail, subscription list, issues... i'm not sure buttons are clear enough. 09:34 owen osmoze, when you click the 'submit' button on the selectbranchprinter page it doesn't submit the form? 09:34 paul (type SVM in title filter, you'll get 3 subscriptions) 09:34 paul I need some proof reading & be sure that it's clear enough. 09:34 kados paul: do you need proof reading? 09:33 kados (asside from the Serials Subscriptions blank page) 09:33 kados paul: I don't see anything on the bull-home.pl screen 09:31 osmoze yes owen :) 09:31 kados paul: I'm not sure where it came from 09:31 kados paul: free-wheelin' is an idiom for 'does anything he wants' ;-) 09:31 paul (bachelor I think I understand, as we have a real-TV programm called "the bachelor" ...) 09:31 owen I didn't realize osmoze = Jean-Sébastien 09:31 paul free wheelin ??? 09:30 osmoze i had wrote a mail for the bug this morning to you owen 09:30 kados yep ;-) 09:30 paul (but owen has a wife & a baby...) 09:30 owen kados is a free-wheelin' bachelor 09:30 paul lol ! 09:30 paul are buttons here & other inside the pages clear enough ? 09:30 paul Recieve => go to reciept process of a serial. 09:29 paul Detail => go to subscription detail 09:29 owen Your bug message, osmoze? 09:29 paul ISSN button => go to the history of subscriptions for this title 09:29 paul (in title) 09:28 osmoze i think it's mine ^^ 09:28 paul here, search SVM 09:28 paul (my url : use test / test as usuall as login/password) 09:28 paul forward. 09:27 owen Paul, could forward you a bug-related message from a French speaker? I'm just not understanding his question, and maybe he'll do better in French 09:27 paul http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:9007/cgi-bin/koha/bull-home.pl 09:27 paul owen / joshua, I need some help / proof reading : 09:26 paul (was just a joke, no need to answer ;-) ) 09:25 owen I start work later than most people 09:25 paul :-D 09:25 paul why is kados always on irc 4 hours before Owen ? does Kados wake up very early or Owen very late ??? good question... 09:25 owen I'm looking forward to having a look at that change-password feature 09:24 paul hello owen 09:24 owen Hi kados 09:24 kados morning owen 06:48 osmoze c est un upgrade mais je vais voir de ce pas, d ailleurs, comme j ai pas de choix sur la localisation, je ne peux rien sortir vis a vis des sites 06:48 paul "hdl is away ..." 06:48 paul hdl, pourquoi je peux pas t'écrire en privé ??? 06:47 hdl Les informations sur les sites sont bien enregistrées ? 06:47 osmoze ^^ 06:47 osmoze et j ai de gros probleme dans les bilans 06:46 osmoze loubejac et Vazerac les annexes 06:46 osmoze Lafrancaise (principal) 06:46 osmoze et je n ai aucun choix dans la recherche par localisation 06:46 hdl détaille. 06:46 osmoze 3 sites 06:46 hdl Combine de sites as-tu ? 06:45 osmoze ou la bdp 06:45 osmoze sauf pour le site principale 06:45 osmoze une idée ? 06:45 osmoze j ai un petit probleme avec les bilans, losque je demande un bilan du catalogues, il ne met pour chaque sites 0 que se soit livres, cd ou autre ? 05:06 Sylvain ok, j'vais essayer d'investiguer ac ces infos merci 05:05 hdl En fait, je pense qu'on s'en sert surtout pour connaître le nombre d'élements d'un tableau. 05:02 hdl $# : préfixe pour obtenir le dernier index. 04:58 Sylvain une petite question de perl, ça correpsond à quoi ça : $#{$value} ? 04:54 hdl Peut-être proposer de saisir des valeurs par défaut qui seraient utilisées. 04:54 hdl ou bien il faudrait mettre cela à l'insert. 04:46 hdl Il semblerait que dans la vérification, on ait perdu ce "harcode" ??? 04:45 hdl "If nothing is set, default is 21,5 (hardcoded)" 04:45 hdl Paul, a quel moment tu mets les valeurs par défaut dans la table issuing_rules ? 04:40 hdl Il faut bien le dire. 04:39 hdl Ces vérifications étant tout de même poussées assez loin. 04:39 hdl Je pense que le bug est plus un manque de connaissance des différentes vérifications effectuées dans issuing_rules. 04:39 hdl ok. Donc le patch est effectivement loufoque et ne vérifie quasiment RIEN. 04:36 paul value of the last expression evaluated.) 04:36 paul (Note that in the absence of an explicit "return", a subroutine, eval, or do FILE will automatically return the 04:35 paul scalar context, and (of course) nothing at all in a void context. 04:35 paul to the next (see "wantarray"). If no EXPR is given, returns an empty list in list context, the undefined value in 04:35 paul scalar, or void context, depending on how the return value will be used, and the context may vary from one execution 04:35 paul Evaluation of EXPR may be in list, 04:35 paul Returns from a subroutine, "eval", or "do FILE" with the value given in EXPR. 04:35 paul perldoc -f return 04:35 paul enfin, il me semble bine... 04:35 paul ca sort de la fonction 04:34 hdl C'est une question stupide qui vient de l'analyse d'un patch fourni poue le bug 1001 04:34 hdl paul : return ne fait que sortir d'une conditionnelle ou il fait aussi sortir d'une fonction... 04:10 paul moi aussi, je ne comprends pas tout. 04:09 hdl J'ai effectivement regardé. Alors j'ai mal compris les dires de Rachel. 04:08 paul (et c'est comme ca que ca fonctionne d'ailleurs) 04:07 paul sauf que ca ne dit rien que nous ne sachions déjà ! 04:07 paul http://www.katipo.co.nz/clients/helpdesk/koha-help.html 04:04 hdl Peut-être qu'en regardant les explications de Katipo, on en saurait plus. 04:04 hdl En fait, ce qui pose question et problème, c'est tout un tas de fonctionnalités non commentées, non présentées. 04:02 hdl Et je n'arrive toujours pas à créer une notice biblio à la réception. 04:02 hdl Je viens de réseeayer. 04:02 hdl Moi, je ne peux pas te dire. 04:02 hdl Il emsblerait que nos amis néozélandais ait la réponse. 04:00 paul (dans firefox j'entends, pas du pt de vue technique) 04:00 paul tu fais comment ? 03:59 hdl A propos de la fonctionnalité des réceptions sans commandes, c'est en entrant dans le code que j'ai vu que c'était possible. 03:57 paul http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/koha/koha/acqui/basket.pl?rev=1.28&view=log 03:57 paul donc chris ;-) 03:57 paul les 1er commits viennent de rangi 03:56 hdl comme personne ne le connaît ou ne le maîtrise vraiment reste TRES mystérieux, et donc peu maintenable. 03:56 hdl Cela dit, même le fonctionnement de ces acquisitions, s'il est intéressant...(Il permet de recevoir des commandes sans les avoir faites ;) ) 03:54 hdl Il semblerait qu'il ait eu à afire des adaptations pour Katipo. 03:54 hdl Chris peut-être ? 03:54 hdl Je me demande QUI maîtrise vraiment ajourd'hui. 03:54 paul ben non, pas bon... faudrait arriver à rendre ce module stable quand même ! 03:53 hdl Bon. 03:53 paul (sylvain a mis un javascript iirc) 03:53 paul impossible de créer une ligne avec qté =0 03:52 paul je ne maitrise pas assez les acquisitions pour être sûr qu'il ne mettrait peut être pas de pb ailleurs 03:52 hdl C'est peut-être le test Si quantité_commandée !=0 qui a fait que je n'ai pas de notice. 03:52 hdl Il semblerait que lorsque tu as fait un test sur ma machine, la notice ait été crée. 03:52 paul bon, je n'arrive pas à reproduire le truc... tant que je n'y arrive pas ou que tu m'expliques comment faire, je laisse ton patch dans le head et je ne le recopie pas dans le rel_2_2 03:47 paul sauf que tu dis avoir trouvé un endroit ou ca n'a pas été le cas ! il y ptet un bug 03:46 hdl ok, je veux bien. 03:44 paul newbiblio / newbiblioitems 03:44 paul line 87 et suivantes 03:44 hdl Visiblement, les notices pour matériaux et déchets ne sont pas créées. 03:44 paul addorder.pl 03:43 paul ben, pas tout à fait, je ne suis pas l'auteur du code. 03:43 hdl Es-tu sûr pour la création de la notice biblio minimale ? 03:42 paul et donc on devrait avoir toujours un biblio.title 03:42 paul en théorie, lorsqu'on créée une ligne d'acquisition, on créée immédiatement la notice Biblio minimale 03:42 paul dans quel cas on peut avoir truetitle vide ? 03:41 paul bon, revenons en au patch 03:41 paul (ce n'est pas un reproche, le code des acquisitions est à reprendre de fond en comble, nous sommes d'accord) 03:41 hdl avec les moyens du bord. 03:40 hdl Certes, mais j'aurais tellement de question sur les acquisitions que j'essaie de faire ce que je peux. 03:39 hdl Merci du compliment. 03:39 paul la bonne question serait : pourquoi avons nous 2 titres ;-) 03:39 paul (disons que c'est un patch cochon sur du code "moisi") 03:38 paul mais je ne suis pas sûr que ce soit bon pour autant. 03:38 paul je comprends mieux maintenant. 03:38 paul (j'avais manqué le commit de Acquisition.pm= 03:38 paul mais ce n'est effectivement pas toujours le cas. 03:37 paul lequel titre est supposé être le même dans la notice B et la notice d'acqu 03:37 paul mais avec le titre qui est dans la "notice d'acquisition" 03:37 paul ce n'est pas en lien avec les suggestions ! 03:37 paul ah, ca y est, je pense que j'ai compris. 03:37 hdl la table aqorders contient un champ title. 03:36 hdl Alors, je les ai tous les deux renommés et j'ai dit, si le champ biblio.title existe, c'est celui-la, sinon.... 03:36 paul qui n'utilise pas les suggestions ou autre. 03:36 paul biblio.title"); 03:36 paul order by 03:36 paul group by aqorders.biblioitemnumber 03:36 paul aqorders.biblioitemnumber 03:36 paul and biblio.biblionumber=aqorders.biblionumber and biblioitems.biblioitemnumber= 03:36 paul and (quantityreceived < quantity or quantityreceived is NULL) 03:36 paul and (cancelledby is NULL or cancelledby = '') 03:36 paul and booksellerid=? 03:36 paul Select * from aqorders,biblio,biblioitems,aqbasket where aqbasket.basketno=aqorders.basketno 03:36 paul et que la requète SQL est : 03:35 paul avec C4/Acquisition.pm/getallorders 03:35 paul parce qu'on a rempli @results 03:35 paul zarbi. 03:35 hdl En tout cas, je me suis retrouvé devant une requête sql qui me paraissait avoir plusieurs fois le champ title. 03:34 hdl Le problème , c'est que tu peux avoir 2 titres : celui de la suggestion, et celui de la notice biblio. 03:34 paul comment tu arrives à truetitle / suggestedtitle ? 03:33 paul ! $line{title} = $results[$i]->{'title'}; 03:33 paul sur la 2.2.x, ca fonctionne correctement la ligne 03:33 paul ! $line{title} = ($results[$i]->{'truetitle'}?$results[$i]->{'truetitle'}:$results[$i]->{'suggestedtitle'}); 03:33 paul je ne comprends pas ton bugfix sur recieve.pl 03:33 hdl oui. 03:33 paul hdl tu es par là ? 03:13 Sylvain moi j'en ai un à signaler (enfin après avoir vérifier qu'il n'est pas dans bugzilla) 03:12 paul et c'est un envahissement des bleu blanc rouges sur le terrain.... 03:12 Sylvain salut les frenchies 03:07 paul_away coucou à tous les 2 03:07 hdl hi 01:42 osmoze hello 21:15 thd kados: MEDICI is only a library leaving much work up to the programmer for implementing something useful. 21:13 thd kados: MEDICI is an EDI library written to support Perl for EDI X12, the US standard, Teleorder, the UK standard; and UN EDIFACT, the international standard being adopted in many other countries. http://www.disintegration.org/~david/ The author could probably use additional support for more development though. This is not a mature program like SQL-Ledger. I was also planning to include this in my message. 21:07 thd kados: yes I was going to in reply to your message about acquisitions. 21:07 thd kados: I had started to implement it for my bookshop but could not find enough time befor priorities had to change. 21:06 kados thd: can you write a description of sql-ledger and mention it's uses for Koha on koha-devel? 21:05 thd kados: It might replace some additional external application that people may be using in addition to Koha acquisitions. 21:04 thd kados: It can do much more than merely support acquisitions. 21:04 kados thd: looks nice 21:04 thd kados: sql-ledger is a fairly mature GPL accounting program written in Perl, if the one in Koha is not featurefull enough. 21:02 kados thd: I don't understand the question 21:00 thd A fairly mature program. It does require postgres still though. MySQL 5 is theoretically possible. 20:58 thd http://www.sql-ledger.org/ 20:56 thd kados: have you looked at SQL-Ledger? 20:55 thd ? 20:54 thd kados: does opac-passwd fix anything other than accidental duplation of IDs. 20:50 kados chris rach (though it will need translation of about three lines of spanish) 20:49 kados chris rach it's a drop and run solution 20:49 kados chris rach you might want to get opac-passwd working for HLT and others right away 20:47 thd chris: If more people were actually using it well, they would have more of an interest in not breaking it. 20:43 thd rach: Do they use another appliction for accounting outside of Koha that does something other than Koha acquisitions? 20:43 chris but now i have to go work again 20:43 chris so 2.2.3 we are testing now, to see how fixed it is 20:42 chris which is why we didnt upgrade them, my purpose in life seems to be putting back stuff that ppl break :-) 20:42 chris its more that 2.0 busted it completely 20:41 thd rach: Do they export accounting data and put it in another application? 20:40 thd rach: It seems as if it does what Rosa origianally wanted. Perhaps her desires have changed since version 1.3 :) 20:39 rach we just try to stop the rot usually 20:39 rach so it does what rosa wants, she speced it 20:39 rach ? they use koha acquisitions - normal, they are who we wrote it for 20:38 thd rach: What do they use for accounting now? 20:37 thd rach: I did not expect that they were using MARC. 20:37 rach so no marc 20:37 rach 1.3 ish 20:37 rach nope 20:37 thd rach: 2.0 20:37 rach we haven't up graded them 20:36 thd rach: what are they using? 20:36 thd rach: I only noticed it on koha-devel. 20:36 rach they aren't using 2.2/2.2.3 yet, so it's a bit moot at the moment 20:34 rach I'm not sure if the thing about acquisitions went to other than koha-devel for example 20:34 rach well I will talk to them about it, but if you want to start a dialogue on the list you can 20:30 thd rach: you know them best, and what they actually do. 20:28 thd rach: Maybe you should really ask. 20:27 thd rach: OK but they are your customer. 20:26 rach IRC won't be the way to do that though - e-mail would be bgetter 20:12 kados thd: who do you have that's interested? 19:43 thd rosa: I may have someone else interested as well, if you are? 19:42 thd rosa: rach has posted a message to the koha-devel list suggesting that "it would be worth checking with Rosalie how interested in additional acquisition options they might be." 19:32 thd rosa: how interested in additional acquisition options might you be? 19:29 thd Nevermind, "Note : the items are NOT exported by this tool" in the template for MARC Export must be left over from a time when items were not exported. 19:07 thd Why would items not be exported in the MARC export? 16:33 thd :) 16:33 owen I don't know, it's not my department :) 16:32 thd owen: What software package is used for acquisitions accounting at NPL? 16:31 owen Ordering is done separately from cataloging 16:31 owen I don't think so 16:30 thd owen: Is the cataloguing and accounting tied together in any way at NPL? I know that you use ITS MARC for Windows to do cataloguing. 16:28 owen NPL does all acquisitions and cataloging outside of Koha, and bulk imports MARC records 16:28 rach the process hasn't changed much 16:28 rach http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/album27 16:27 rach and there is another one for simple 16:25 thd owen: Do you know how NPL currently manages accounting for acquisitions? 16:24 thd owen: Katipo acquisitions tutorial, http://www.katipo.co.nz/clients/helpdesk/koha-help.html , requires a little time or bandwidth to download. 16:22 rach as in we have switched back and forth 16:22 rach um I believe they do thd 16:21 thd owen: there is an interactive presentation of cquisitions at Katipo. 16:20 owen I wish I knew what the acquisitions workflow was. If I had a acquisitions 'timeline,' I could have a better understanding of what people do/need step by step 16:19 thd rach: but you do not know if your templates work in MARC Koha? 16:19 rach (or CVS) 16:19 rach jsut be a bit or hand waving to get them going - might not work out of the box 16:18 rach all our clients use acq either simple or normal, so we have templates if the regular ones aren't doing it for you 16:18 rach there are some template bugs, but our templates do fix them 16:18 rach thd - the underlying code works 16:18 owen The fact is, I don't know what the status is because we don't use Koha's acquisitions functions. I've been through the templates, but never as a person actually using them 16:17 thd owen: I need to know what to tell her about the status of acquisitions in Koha. 16:16 thd owen rach: I know someone who could use a minimal working acquisitions module. 16:14 owen They might be the basis for a new default template for Koha. We'll see. 16:13 thd owen: Was your intention to use them as a model to fix the NPL template? 16:12 owen I could add them if rach and chris want, but it's up to them 16:12 thd owen: let me know when they are in CVS 16:10 rach yes that's what we've just given to owen 16:10 thd rach: Do you have templates at Katipo that adress this problem or not yet? 16:09 rach um template bugs if you have marc off (probably with marc on as well) 16:09 rach we did them off the default and npl ones I think from 2.2.2 but check that with chris 16:06 thd rach: what is broke about acquisitions? 16:05 owen How up-to-date would you say they are compared to the default templates? 16:04 rach cool owen, I'd say we put the most effort into acquisitions as that's what was most broken 16:04 rach either toys or food will do :-) 16:03 rach sam loves kids, particularly when they get just big enough to throw things for her :-) 16:03 owen rach: chris sent me a copy of your black-and-white templates. I'm putting them on our test server now for a look 16:03 rach luckily the puppies did grow out of it 16:00 owen That's quite a hike for a play-date, but we'd make the trip if we could ;) 15:59 thd rach: You need a two year old to play with your puppies. Perhaps an arrangement could be made :) 15:58 thd owen: Teach your two year old to always press the button twice. 15:58 rach up there with puppy eating your cables (which both olive and sam did) 15:57 rach lol 15:57 owen The best UPS in the world won't save you when your two-year-old presses the power button on your computer 15:23 thd owen: Well, that would require investigation. They may just want to encourage use of their application and be fine with however the output was licensed. 15:22 owen Yes 15:21 thd owen: Now I understand, Dreamweaver creates code for the output instead of merely providing an editing environment. 15:19 owen Well, in this case Dreamweaver is adding actual code to a page, rather than simply compliling something. So it could be problematic 15:15 thd owen: Would that case not be more like a compiler where the license for the compiler does not attach to the object code? 15:14 owen I don't know for sure 15:14 owen It might be if it's a built-in javascript 15:14 thd owen: Is the output of HTML authoring applications encumbered by license restrictions? 15:12 owen They also look like they may be Macromedia Dreamweaver-generated code, which I don't think would fit into GPL 15:11 owen Boy the new menus added in the latest round of updates are really broken on our test machine 14:15 thd kados: I had a suggestion for paul but it is not in front of my mind at the moment. 14:14 kados thd: I don't think so 14:14 thd kados: so your idea about solving the linking issue would not work? 14:13 kados thd: IIRC chris has some good ideas for what to do with subjects (the original Koha did them nicely) 14:13 kados thd: could you add that note, and also write a summary of your findings about subjects to koha-devel? 14:12 thd kados: subfield order from imported records has been preserved in Koha from the beginning. I have neglected to add a note to bug 997 about that. The templates do not use the subfield order currently. Paul has fixed this for 2.4/3.0 so I would not worry about the order problem for now just the other aspect of linking compound subjects. 13:41 kados thd: so how can we solve the subject ordering problem theoretically? 13:40 kados right 13:22 thd kados: However, currently chris had said that most people just usually put everything in biblioitems.dewey (852 $k, 852 $h, 852, $i 852 $m or 852 $k, 082 $a, 082 $b, 852 $m) and adjust the templates to accommodate the one column. Searches work faster when everything is in one column. 13:22 thd kados: biblioitems.classification was originally intended for prefix (852 $k), biblioitems.dewey was originally intended for DDC (852 $h or 082 $a); and biblioitems.subclass was originally intended for cutter (852 $i or 082 $b) 13:00 thd kados: you were asking paul about biblioitems.classification, biblioitems.dewey, biblioitems.subclass earlier. Chris had explained it to me last night. 12:53 thd kados: The correct subfield ordering is not alphabetic in this case. 650 $aScience$zGreece$xHistory 12:51 thd s/$Greece/$zGreece 12:50 thd kados: your latest migration does not have either problem because that library incorrectly has 650 $aScience--Greece--History instead of 650 $aScience$Greece$xHistory 12:49 thd owen, kados: This example should be Science--Greece--History and Science--Rome--History. 12:48 thd owen kados: The subfield order bug that paul has fixed for 2.4/3 is actually manifest in my example. It did not seem correct to me. 12:42 thd :) 12:42 owen That's not what's causing this problem. But that doesn't mean there might not be an issue with extended character display, as evidenced by bug 885 12:40 thd owen: OK. I had imagined a template character set issue for 'ö'. 12:39 owen I think it was caused by our previous ILS 12:39 thd owen: What is the origin of the problem? 12:38 owen Supposedly being fixed incrementally by hand 12:38 owen Long-standing problem 12:37 thd kados owen: Do you see anything wrong with this title http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=65618 12:37 thd The basic issue of compund subjects is the norm for books in my experience but I actually had a modest difficulty finding some common titles at NPL for an example. 12:34 thd owen: I think your example is uncommon enough to not be bothersome for the moment. 12:33 thd owen: obviously my suggestion about how to approach fixing this for the moment is not perfect but would work now. I doubt the query kados proposes would work without additional changes to marc_words. Later, it will change for 3.0 for the proper solution. 12:31 owen ...but you were searching for only "science--history--greece" 12:30 owen thd, but what if you have a book with one subject "science" and another "history--greece"? 12:29 thd kados: This could work well enough for now with q=Science&History&Greece without needing to change marc_words for q=Science*History*Greece. Would it not? 12:25 thd kados: Why would you specfy a sequence of the subfields in the search when it is not present in marc_words yet while the individual terms would be present? 12:23 thd Koha does not understand subfield order yet even though it is recorded. 12:23 kados I don't think the Koha boolean 'exact' search is working 12:22 kados so you'd have to have a special syntax for searching in order 12:22 kados so that's problematic ... 12:21 kados right 12:21 owen You wouldn't want to return a record with subjects "greece" and "history" if you were looking for something with the subject "Greece--History" 12:21 kados owen: I'm not sure about the order 12:20 kados owen: that's the problem 12:20 kados </TMPL_LOOP></a> 12:20 kados <TMPL_VAR NAME='subject'>-- 12:20 kados <TMPL_LOOP NAME="MARCSUBJECTS"> 12:20 kados </TMPL_LOOP>"> 12:20 kados q=<TMPL_VAR NAME='subject'>& 12:20 kados <a href="search.pl?<TMPL_LOOP NAME='MARCSUBJECTS"> 12:20 kados this is a bit better: 12:19 owen If you feed the search script the terms that way, will it search only for items matching those subject headings in that order? 12:18 kados yea ... a few probs with the syntax ;-) 12:18 owen Looks like the right idea 12:18 kados well it's not quite right ... it's missing a > to close out the first href 12:17 thd for the way marc_words stores subfield values 12:17 kados </TMPL_LOOP></a> 12:17 kados <TMPL_VAR NAME='subject'>-- 12:17 kados owen: what do you think? 12:17 kados <TMPL_LOOP NAME="MARCSUBJECTS"> 12:17 kados q=<TMPL_VAR NAME='subject'> 12:17 kados <a href="<TMPL_LOOP NAME='MARCSUBJECTS"></TMPL_LOOP> 12:17 kados thd: I think if we can get the script to order the subject correctly before passing them to the template this will work: 12:16 thd kados: I thought that your first query was correct 12:15 kados yep 12:14 thd kados: does that '*' work in marc_words with only separate entries for each elemental term? 12:13 kados hmmm ... this will change drastically with Zebra 12:13 kados so it's actually q=Science*history*greece 12:12 thd kados: otherwise they cannot be found in marc_words 12:12 kados and ideally they should even be ordered 12:12 kados in the query right? 12:12 kados we want each subject as it's own variable 12:12 thd kados: exactly 12:11 kados thd: right? 12:11 kados <a href="q=Science&q=History&q=Greece">Science--History--Greece</a> 12:11 kados something like this: 12:11 thd collectively 12:11 kados ok ... so we want: 12:11 thd kados: almost every OPAC has just one 12:10 kados one collective or seperate? 12:10 kados but in the meantime, what's should the default be? 12:10 kados in 3.0 maybe we could have the user-defined one 12:10 kados what's normally done? 12:10 kados :-) 12:10 thd kados: one collective link but could be separable by the user with a sophisticated interface 12:09 kados thd: or three? 12:09 kados thd: Science--History--Greece is one link? 12:08 kados thd: just a sec 12:08 thd kados: I had noticed something else. 12:08 thd kados: Mostly order is alphabetic so there might be a 2.2.4 fix for this if you have one. 12:08 kados I need to think further about this 12:08 kados my idea is problematic 12:07 thd kados: There is a related issue for when the subfield order is not alphabetic but Paul hax fixed that in head for 2.4 12:06 kados wait ... 12:06 kados > 12:06 kados oops 12:06 kados ) 12:06 kados <TMPL_LOOP_ 12:06 kados <a href=" 12:06 kados so then you can build your link: 12:05 kados (each is a separate value) 12:05 kados Rome 650z 12:05 kados history 650x 12:05 kados Science 650a 12:04 kados so each set comes out like this: 12:04 thd Science, Ancient 12:04 thd Science--History--Rome 12:04 thd Science--History--Greece 12:04 thd kados: You would want 12:04 kados subject, tagsubfield 12:04 kados with two variables: 12:04 kados you have a TMPL_LOOP 12:04 kados thd: what I meant was 12:03 thd Science, Ancient 12:03 thd Science 12:03 thd Rome 12:03 thd History 12:03 thd Greece 12:03 thd kados: You would not want as separate headings 12:00 kados hmmm ... actually that's problematic ... how do you get the anchor to be correct? 12:00 kados thd: ideally we'd have all the subjects returned to the template individually with an associated tagsubfield