Time  Nick      Message
12:00 kados     thd: ideally we'd have all the subjects returned to the template individually with an associated tagsubfield
12:00 kados     hmmm ... actually that's problematic ... how do you get the anchor to be correct?
12:03 thd       kados: You would not want as separate headings
12:03 thd       Greece
12:03 thd       History
12:03 thd       Rome
12:03 thd       Science
12:03 thd       Science, Ancient
12:04 kados     thd: what I meant was
12:04 kados     you have a TMPL_LOOP
12:04 kados     with two variables:
12:04 kados     subject, tagsubfield
12:04 thd       kados: You would want
12:04 thd       Science--History--Greece
12:04 thd       Science--History--Rome
12:04 thd       Science, Ancient
12:04 kados     so each set comes out like this:
12:05 kados     Science 650a
12:05 kados     history 650x
12:05 kados     Rome 650z
12:05 kados     (each is a separate value)
12:06 kados     so then you can build your link:
12:06 kados     <a href="
12:06 kados     <TMPL_LOOP_
12:06 kados     )
12:06 kados     oops
12:06 kados     >
12:06 kados     wait ...
12:07 thd       kados: There is a related issue for when the subfield order is not alphabetic but Paul hax fixed that in head for 2.4
12:08 kados     my idea is problematic
12:08 kados     I need to think further about this
12:08 thd       kados: Mostly order is alphabetic so there might be a 2.2.4 fix for this if you have one.
12:08 thd       kados: I had noticed something else.
12:08 kados     thd: just a sec
12:09 kados     thd: Science--History--Greece is one link?
12:09 kados     thd: or three?
12:10 thd       kados: one collective link but  could be separable by the user with a sophisticated interface
12:10 kados     :-)
12:10 kados     what's normally done?
12:10 kados     in 3.0 maybe we could have the user-defined one
12:10 kados     but in the meantime, what's should the default be?
12:10 kados     one collective or seperate?
12:11 thd       kados: almost every OPAC has just one
12:11 kados     ok ... so we want:
12:11 thd       collectively
12:11 kados     something like this:
12:11 kados     <a href="q=Science&q=History&q=Greece">Science--History--Greece</a>
12:11 kados     thd: right?
12:12 thd       kados: exactly
12:12 kados     we want each subject as it's own variable
12:12 kados     in the query right?
12:12 kados     and ideally they should even be ordered
12:12 thd       kados: otherwise they cannot be found in marc_words
12:13 kados     so it's actually q=Science*history*greece
12:13 kados     hmmm ... this will change drastically with Zebra
12:14 thd       kados: does that '*' work in marc_words with only separate entries for each elemental term?
12:15 kados     yep
12:16 thd       kados: I thought that your first query was correct
12:17 kados     thd: I think if we can get the script to order the subject correctly before passing them to the template this will work:
12:17 kados     <a href="<TMPL_LOOP NAME='MARCSUBJECTS"></TMPL_LOOP>
12:17 kados             q=<TMPL_VAR NAME='subject'>
12:17 kados     owen: what do you think?
12:17 kados             <TMPL_VAR NAME='subject'>--
12:17 kados     </TMPL_LOOP></a>
12:17 thd       for the way marc_words stores subfield values
12:18 kados     well it's not quite right ... it's missing a > to close out the first href
12:18 owen      Looks like the right idea
12:18 kados     yea ... a few probs with the syntax ;-)
12:19 owen      If you feed the search script the terms that way, will it search only for items matching those subject headings in that order?
12:20 kados     this is a bit better:
12:20 kados     <a href="search.pl?<TMPL_LOOP NAME='MARCSUBJECTS">
12:20 kados             q=<TMPL_VAR NAME='subject'>&
12:20 kados     </TMPL_LOOP>">
12:20 kados             <TMPL_VAR NAME='subject'>--
12:20 kados     </TMPL_LOOP></a>
12:20 kados     owen: that's the problem
12:21 kados     owen: I'm not sure about the order
12:21 owen      You wouldn't want to return a record with subjects "greece" and "history" if you were looking for something with the subject "Greece--History"
12:21 kados     right
12:22 kados     so that's problematic ...
12:22 kados     so you'd have to have a special syntax for searching in order
12:23 kados     I don't think the Koha boolean 'exact' search is working
12:23 thd       Koha does not understand subfield order yet even though it is recorded.
12:25 thd       kados: Why would you specfy a sequence of the subfields in the search when it is not present in marc_words yet while the individual terms would be present?
12:29 thd       kados: This could work well enough for now with q=Science&History&Greece without needing to change marc_words for q=Science*History*Greece.  Would it not?
12:30 owen      thd, but what if you have a book with one subject "science" and another "history--greece"?
12:31 owen      ...but you were searching for only "science--history--greece"
12:33 thd       owen: obviously my suggestion about how to approach fixing this for the moment is not perfect but would work now.  I doubt the query kados proposes would work without additional changes to marc_words.  Later, it will change for 3.0 for the proper solution.
12:34 thd       owen: I think your example is uncommon enough to not be bothersome for the moment.
12:37 thd       The basic issue of compund subjects is the norm for books in my experience but I actually had a modest difficulty finding some common titles at NPL for an example.
12:37 thd       kados owen: Do you see anything wrong with this title http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=65618
12:38 owen      Long-standing problem
12:38 owen      Supposedly being fixed incrementally by hand
12:39 thd       owen: What is the origin of the problem?
12:39 owen      I think it was caused by our previous ILS
12:40 thd       owen: OK.  I had imagined a template character set issue for 'ö'.
12:42 owen      That's not what's causing this problem.  But that doesn't mean there might not be an issue with extended character display, as evidenced by bug 885
12:42 thd       :)
12:48 thd       owen kados: The subfield order bug that paul has fixed for 2.4/3 is actually manifest in my example.  It did not seem correct to me.
12:49 thd       owen, kados: This example should be Science--Greece--History and Science--Rome--History.
12:50 thd       kados: your latest migration does not have either problem because that library incorrectly has 650  $aScience--Greece--History instead of 650 $aScience$Greece$xHistory
12:51 thd       s/$Greece/$zGreece
12:53 thd       kados:  The correct subfield ordering is not alphabetic in this case.  650 $aScience$zGreece$xHistory
13:00 thd       kados: you were asking paul about biblioitems.classification, biblioitems.dewey, biblioitems.subclass earlier.  Chris had explained it to me last night.
13:22 thd       kados: biblioitems.classification was originally intended for prefix (852 $k), biblioitems.dewey was originally intended for DDC (852 $h or 082 $a); and biblioitems.subclass was originally intended for cutter (852 $i or 082 $b)
13:22 thd       kados: However, currently chris had said that most people just usually put everything in biblioitems.dewey (852 $k, 852 $h, 852, $i 852 $m or 852 $k, 082 $a, 082 $b, 852 $m) and adjust the templates to accommodate the one column.  Searches work faster when everything is in one column.
13:40 kados     right
13:41 kados     thd: so how can we solve the subject ordering problem theoretically?
14:12 thd       kados: subfield order from imported records has been preserved in Koha from the beginning.  I have neglected to add a note to bug 997 about that.  The templates do not use the subfield order currently.  Paul has fixed this for 2.4/3.0 so I would not worry about the order problem for now just the other aspect of linking compound subjects.
14:13 kados     thd: could you add that note, and also write a summary of your findings about subjects to koha-devel?
14:13 kados     thd: IIRC chris has some good ideas for what to do with subjects (the original Koha did them nicely)
14:14 thd       kados: so your idea about solving the linking issue would not work?
14:14 kados     thd: I don't think so
14:15 thd       kados: I had a suggestion for paul but it is not in front of my mind at the moment.
15:11 owen      Boy the new menus added in the latest round of updates are really broken on our test machine
15:12 owen      They also look like they may be Macromedia Dreamweaver-generated code, which I don't think would fit into GPL
15:14 thd       owen: Is the output of HTML authoring applications encumbered by license restrictions?
15:14 owen      It might be if it's a built-in javascript
15:14 owen      I don't know for sure
15:15 thd       owen: Would that case not be more like a compiler where the license for the compiler does not attach to the object code?
15:19 owen      Well, in this case Dreamweaver is adding actual code to a page, rather than simply compliling something.  So it could be problematic
15:21 thd       owen: Now I understand, Dreamweaver creates code for the output instead of merely providing an editing environment.
15:22 owen      Yes
15:23 thd       owen: Well, that would require investigation.  They may just want to encourage use of their application and be fine with however the output was licensed.
15:57 owen      The best UPS in the world won't save you when your two-year-old presses the power button on your computer
15:57 rach      lol
15:58 rach      up there with puppy eating your cables (which both olive and sam did)
15:58 thd       owen: Teach your two year old to always press the button twice.
15:59 thd       rach: You need a two year old to play with your puppies. Perhaps an arrangement could be made :)
16:00 owen      That's quite a hike for a play-date, but we'd make the trip if we could ;)
16:03 rach      luckily the puppies did grow out of it
16:03 owen      rach: chris sent me a copy of your black-and-white templates.  I'm putting them on our test server now for a look
16:03 rach      sam loves kids, particularly when they get just big enough to throw things for her :-)
16:04 rach      either toys or food will do :-)
16:04 rach      cool owen, I'd say we put the most effort into acquisitions as that's what was most broken
16:05 owen      How up-to-date would you say they are compared to the default templates?
16:06 thd       rach: what is broke about acquisitions?
16:09 rach      we did them off the default and npl ones I think from 2.2.2 but check that with chris
16:09 rach      um template bugs if you have marc off (probably with marc on as well)
16:10 thd       rach: Do you have templates at Katipo that adress this problem or not yet?
16:10 rach      yes that's what we've just given to owen
16:12 thd       owen: let me know when they are in CVS
16:12 owen      I could add them if rach and chris want, but it's up to them
16:13 thd       owen: Was your intention to use them as a model to fix the NPL template?
16:14 owen      They might be the basis for a new default template for Koha.  We'll see.
16:16 thd       owen rach: I know someone who could use a minimal working acquisitions module.
16:17 thd       owen: I need to know what to tell her about the status of acquisitions in Koha.
16:18 owen      The fact is, I don't know what the status is because we don't use Koha's acquisitions functions.  I've been through the templates, but never as a person actually using them
16:18 rach      thd - the underlying code works
16:18 rach      there are some template bugs, but our templates do fix them
16:18 rach      all our clients use acq either simple or normal, so we have templates if the regular ones aren't doing it for you
16:19 rach      jsut be a bit or hand waving to get them going - might not work out of the box
16:19 rach      (or CVS)
16:19 thd       rach: but you do not know if your templates work in MARC Koha?
16:20 owen      I wish I knew what the acquisitions workflow was.  If I had a acquisitions 'timeline,' I could have a better understanding of what people do/need step by step
16:21 thd       owen: there is an interactive presentation of cquisitions at Katipo.
16:22 rach      um I believe they do thd
16:22 rach      as in we have switched back and forth
16:24 thd       owen: Katipo acquisitions tutorial, http://www.katipo.co.nz/clients/helpdesk/koha-help.html , requires a little time or bandwidth to download.
16:25 thd       owen: Do you know how NPL currently manages accounting for acquisitions?
16:27 rach      and there is another one for simple
16:28 rach      http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/album27
16:28 rach      the process hasn't changed much
16:28 owen      NPL does all acquisitions and cataloging outside of Koha, and bulk imports MARC records
16:30 thd       owen: Is the cataloguing and accounting tied together in any way at NPL?  I know that you use ITS MARC for Windows to do cataloguing.
16:31 owen      I don't think so
16:31 owen      Ordering is done separately from cataloging
16:32 thd       owen: What software package is used for acquisitions accounting at NPL?
16:33 owen      I don't know, it's not my department :)
16:33 thd       :)
19:07 thd       Why would items not be exported in the MARC export?
19:29 thd       Nevermind, "Note : the items are NOT exported by this tool" in the template for MARC Export must be left over from a time when items were not exported.
19:32 thd       rosa: how interested in additional acquisition options might you be?
19:42 thd       rosa: rach has posted a message to the koha-devel list suggesting that "it would be worth checking with Rosalie how interested in additional acquisition options they might be."
19:43 thd       rosa: I may have someone else interested as well, if you are?
20:12 kados     thd: who do you have that's interested?
20:26 rach      IRC won't be the way to do that though - e-mail would be bgetter
20:27 thd       rach: OK but they are your customer.
20:28 thd       rach: Maybe you should really ask.
20:30 thd       rach: you know them best, and what they actually do.
20:34 rach      well I will talk to them about it, but if you want to start a dialogue on the list you can
20:34 rach      I'm not sure if the thing about acquisitions went to other than koha-devel for example
20:36 rach      they aren't using 2.2/2.2.3 yet, so it's a bit moot at the moment
20:36 thd       rach: I only noticed it on koha-devel.
20:36 thd       rach: what are they using?
20:37 rach      we haven't up graded them
20:37 thd       rach: 2.0
20:37 rach      nope
20:37 rach      1.3 ish
20:37 rach      so no marc
20:37 thd       rach: I did not expect that they were using MARC.
20:38 thd       rach: What do they use for accounting now?
20:39 rach      ? they use koha acquisitions - normal, they are who we wrote it for
20:39 rach      so it does what rosa wants, she speced it
20:39 rach      we just try to stop the rot usually
20:40 thd       rach: It seems as if it does what Rosa origianally wanted.  Perhaps her desires have changed since version 1.3 :)
20:41 thd       rach: Do they export accounting data and put it in another application?
20:42 chris     its more that 2.0 busted it completely
20:42 chris     which is why we didnt upgrade them, my purpose in life seems to be putting back stuff that ppl break :-)
20:43 chris     so 2.2.3 we are testing now, to see how fixed it is
20:43 chris     but now i have to go work again
20:43 thd       rach: Do they use another appliction for accounting outside of Koha that does something other than Koha acquisitions?
20:47 thd       chris: If more people were actually using it well, they would have more of an interest in not breaking it.
20:49 kados     chris rach you might want to get opac-passwd working for HLT and others right away
20:49 kados     chris rach it's a drop and run solution
20:50 kados     chris rach (though it will need translation of about three lines of spanish)
20:54 thd       kados: does opac-passwd fix anything other than accidental duplation of IDs.
20:55 thd       ?
20:56 thd       kados: have you looked at SQL-Ledger?
20:58 thd       http://www.sql-ledger.org/
21:00 thd       A fairly mature program.  It does require postgres still though.  MySQL 5 is theoretically possible.
21:02 kados     thd: I don't understand the question
21:04 thd       kados: sql-ledger is a fairly mature GPL accounting program written in Perl, if the one in Koha is not featurefull enough.
21:04 kados     thd: looks nice
21:04 thd       kados: It can do much more than merely support acquisitions.
21:05 thd       kados: It might replace some additional external application that people may be using in addition to Koha acquisitions.
21:06 kados     thd: can you write a description of sql-ledger and mention it's uses for Koha on koha-devel?
21:07 thd       kados: I had started to implement it for my bookshop but could not find enough time befor priorities had to change.
21:07 thd       kados: yes I was going to in reply to your message about acquisitions.
21:13 thd       kados: MEDICI is an EDI library written to support Perl for EDI X12, the US standard, Teleorder, the UK standard; and UN EDIFACT, the international standard being adopted in many other countries.  http://www.disintegration.org/~david/  The author could probably use additional support for more development though.  This is not a mature program like SQL-Ledger.  I was also planning to include this in my message.
21:15 thd       kados: MEDICI is only a library leaving much work up to the programmer for implementing something useful.
01:42 osmoze    hello
03:07 hdl       hi
03:07 paul_away coucou à tous les 2
03:12 Sylvain   salut les frenchies
03:12 paul      et c'est un envahissement des bleu blanc rouges sur le terrain....
03:13 Sylvain   moi j'en ai un à signaler (enfin après avoir vérifier qu'il n'est pas dans bugzilla)
03:33 paul      hdl tu es par là ?
03:33 hdl       oui.
03:33 paul      je ne comprends pas ton bugfix sur recieve.pl
03:33 paul      ! 	$line{title} = ($results[$i]->{'truetitle'}?$results[$i]->{'truetitle'}:$results[$i]->{'suggestedtitle'});
03:33 paul      sur la 2.2.x, ca fonctionne correctement la ligne
03:33 paul      ! 	$line{title} = $results[$i]->{'title'};
03:34 paul      comment tu arrives à truetitle / suggestedtitle ?
03:34 hdl       Le problème , c'est que tu peux avoir 2 titres : celui de la suggestion, et celui de la notice biblio.
03:35 hdl       En tout cas, je me suis retrouvé devant une requête sql qui me paraissait avoir plusieurs fois le champ title.
03:35 paul      zarbi.
03:35 paul      parce qu'on a rempli @results
03:35 paul      avec C4/Acquisition.pm/getallorders
03:36 paul      et que la requète SQL est :
03:36 paul      Select * from aqorders,biblio,biblioitems,aqbasket where aqbasket.basketno=aqorders.basketno
03:36 paul        and booksellerid=?
03:36 paul        and (cancelledby is NULL or cancelledby = '')
03:36 paul        and (quantityreceived < quantity or quantityreceived is NULL)
03:36 paul        and biblio.biblionumber=aqorders.biblionumber and biblioitems.biblioitemnumber=
03:36 paul        aqorders.biblioitemnumber
03:36 paul        group by aqorders.biblioitemnumber
03:36 paul        order by
03:36 paul        biblio.title");
03:36 paul      qui n'utilise pas les suggestions ou autre.
03:36 hdl       Alors, je les ai tous les deux renommés et j'ai dit, si le champ biblio.title existe, c'est celui-la, sinon....
03:37 hdl       la table aqorders contient un champ title.
03:37 paul      ah, ca y est, je pense que j'ai compris.
03:37 paul      ce n'est pas en lien avec les suggestions !
03:37 paul      mais avec le titre qui est dans la "notice d'acquisition"
03:37 paul      lequel titre est supposé être le même dans la notice B et la notice d'acqu
03:38 paul      mais ce n'est effectivement pas toujours le cas.
03:38 paul      (j'avais manqué le commit de Acquisition.pm=
03:38 paul      je comprends mieux maintenant.
03:38 paul      mais je ne suis pas sûr que ce soit bon pour autant.
03:39 paul      (disons que c'est un patch cochon sur du code "moisi")
03:39 paul      la bonne question serait : pourquoi avons nous 2 titres ;-)
03:39 hdl       Merci du compliment.
03:40 hdl       Certes, mais j'aurais tellement de question sur les acquisitions que j'essaie de faire ce que je peux.
03:41 hdl       avec les moyens du bord.
03:41 paul      (ce n'est pas un reproche, le code des acquisitions est à reprendre de fond en comble, nous sommes d'accord)
03:41 paul      bon, revenons en au patch
03:42 paul      dans quel cas on peut avoir truetitle vide ?
03:42 paul      en théorie, lorsqu'on créée une ligne d'acquisition, on créée immédiatement la notice Biblio minimale
03:42 paul      et donc on devrait avoir toujours un biblio.title
03:43 hdl       Es-tu sûr pour la création de la notice biblio minimale ?
03:43 paul      ben, pas tout à fait, je ne suis pas l'auteur du code.
03:44 paul      addorder.pl
03:44 hdl       Visiblement, les notices pour matériaux et déchets ne sont pas créées.
03:44 paul      line 87 et suivantes
03:44 paul      newbiblio / newbiblioitems
03:46 hdl       ok, je veux bien.
03:47 paul      sauf que tu dis avoir trouvé un endroit ou ca n'a pas été le cas ! il y ptet un bug
03:52 paul      bon, je n'arrive pas à reproduire le truc... tant que je n'y arrive pas ou que tu m'expliques comment faire, je laisse ton patch dans le head et je ne le recopie pas dans le rel_2_2
03:52 hdl       Il semblerait que lorsque tu as fait un test sur ma machine, la notice ait été crée.
03:52 hdl       C'est peut-être le test Si quantité_commandée !=0 qui a fait que je n'ai pas de notice.
03:52 paul      je ne maitrise pas assez les acquisitions pour être sûr qu'il ne mettrait peut être pas de pb ailleurs
03:53 paul      impossible de créer une ligne avec qté =0
03:53 paul      (sylvain a mis un javascript iirc)
03:53 hdl       Bon.
03:54 paul      ben non, pas bon... faudrait arriver à rendre ce module stable quand même !
03:54 hdl       Je me demande QUI maîtrise vraiment ajourd'hui.
03:54 hdl       Chris peut-être ?
03:54 hdl       Il semblerait qu'il ait eu à afire des adaptations pour Katipo.
03:56 hdl       Cela dit, même le fonctionnement de ces acquisitions, s'il est intéressant...(Il permet de recevoir des commandes sans les avoir faites ;) )
03:56 hdl       comme personne ne le connaît ou ne le maîtrise vraiment reste TRES mystérieux, et donc peu maintenable.
03:57 paul      les 1er commits viennent de rangi
03:57 paul      donc chris ;-)
03:57 paul      http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/koha/koha/acqui/basket.pl?rev=1.28&view=log
03:59 hdl       A propos de la fonctionnalité des réceptions sans commandes, c'est en entrant dans le code que j'ai vu que c'était possible.
04:00 paul      tu fais comment ?
04:00 paul      (dans firefox j'entends, pas du pt de vue technique)
04:02 hdl       Il emsblerait que nos amis néozélandais ait la réponse.
04:02 hdl       Moi, je ne peux pas te dire.
04:02 hdl       Je viens de réseeayer.
04:02 hdl       Et je n'arrive toujours pas à créer une notice biblio à la réception.
04:04 hdl       En fait, ce qui pose question et problème, c'est tout un tas de fonctionnalités non commentées, non présentées.
04:04 hdl       Peut-être qu'en regardant les explications de Katipo, on en saurait plus.
04:07 paul      http://www.katipo.co.nz/clients/helpdesk/koha-help.html
04:07 paul      sauf que ca ne dit rien que nous ne sachions déjà !
04:08 paul      (et c'est comme ca que ca fonctionne d'ailleurs)
04:09 hdl       J'ai effectivement regardé. Alors j'ai mal compris les dires de Rachel.
04:10 paul      moi aussi, je ne comprends pas tout.
04:34 hdl       paul : return ne fait que sortir d'une conditionnelle ou il fait aussi sortir d'une fonction...
04:34 hdl       C'est une question stupide qui vient de l'analyse d'un patch fourni poue le bug 1001
04:35 paul      ca sort de la fonction
04:35 paul      enfin, il me semble bine...
04:35 paul      perldoc -f return
04:35 paul      Returns from a subroutine, "eval", or "do FILE" with the value given in EXPR.
04:35 paul      Evaluation of EXPR may be in list,
04:35 paul                     scalar, or void context, depending on how the return value will be used, and the context may vary from one execution
04:35 paul                     to the next (see "wantarray").  If no EXPR is given, returns an empty list in list context, the undefined value in
04:35 paul                     scalar context, and (of course) nothing at all in a void context.
04:36 paul      (Note that in the absence of an explicit "return", a subroutine, eval, or do FILE will automatically return the
04:36 paul                     value of the last expression evaluated.)
04:39 hdl       ok. Donc le patch est effectivement loufoque et ne vérifie quasiment RIEN.
04:39 hdl       Je pense que le bug est plus un manque de connaissance des différentes vérifications effectuées dans issuing_rules.
04:39 hdl       Ces vérifications étant tout de même poussées assez loin.
04:40 hdl       Il faut bien le dire.
04:45 hdl       Paul, a quel moment tu mets les valeurs par défaut dans la table issuing_rules ?
04:45 hdl       "If nothing is set, default is 21,5 (hardcoded)"
04:46 hdl       Il semblerait que dans la vérification, on ait perdu ce "harcode" ???
04:54 hdl       ou bien il faudrait mettre cela à l'insert.
04:54 hdl       Peut-être proposer de saisir des valeurs par défaut qui seraient utilisées.
04:58 Sylvain   une petite question de perl, ça correpsond à quoi ça : $#{$value} ?
05:02 hdl       $# : préfixe pour obtenir le dernier index.
05:05 hdl       En fait, je pense qu'on s'en sert surtout pour connaître le nombre d'élements d'un tableau.
05:06 Sylvain   ok, j'vais essayer d'investiguer ac ces infos merci
06:45 osmoze    j ai un petit probleme avec les bilans, losque je demande un bilan du catalogues, il ne met pour chaque sites 0 que se soit livres, cd ou autre ?
06:45 osmoze    une idée ?
06:45 osmoze    sauf pour le site principale
06:45 osmoze    ou la bdp
06:46 hdl       Combine de sites as-tu ?
06:46 osmoze    3 sites
06:46 hdl       détaille.
06:46 osmoze    et je n ai aucun choix dans la recherche par localisation
06:46 osmoze    Lafrancaise (principal)
06:46 osmoze    loubejac et Vazerac les annexes
06:47 osmoze    et j ai de gros probleme dans les bilans
06:47 osmoze    ^^
06:47 hdl       Les informations sur les sites sont bien enregistrées ?
06:48 paul      hdl, pourquoi je peux pas t'écrire en privé ???
06:48 paul      "hdl is away ..."
06:48 osmoze    c est un upgrade mais je vais voir de ce pas, d ailleurs, comme j ai pas de choix sur la localisation, je ne peux rien sortir vis a vis des sites
09:24 kados     morning owen
09:24 owen      Hi kados
09:24 paul      hello owen
09:25 owen      I'm looking forward to having a look at that change-password feature
09:25 paul      why is kados always on irc 4 hours before Owen ? does Kados wake up very early or Owen very late ??? good question...
09:25 paul      :-D
09:25 owen      I start work later than most people
09:26 paul      (was just a joke, no need to answer ;-) )
09:27 paul      owen / joshua, I need some help / proof reading :
09:27 paul      http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:9007/cgi-bin/koha/bull-home.pl
09:27 owen      Paul, could forward you a bug-related message from a French speaker?  I'm just not understanding his question, and maybe he'll do better in French
09:28 paul      forward.
09:28 paul      (my url : use test / test as usuall as login/password)
09:28 paul      here, search SVM
09:28 osmoze    i think it's mine ^^
09:29 paul      (in title)
09:29 paul      ISSN button => go to the history of subscriptions for this title
09:29 owen      Your bug message, osmoze?
09:29 paul      Detail => go to subscription detail
09:30 paul      Recieve => go to reciept process of a serial.
09:30 paul      are buttons here & other inside the pages clear enough ?
09:30 paul      lol !
09:30 owen      kados is a free-wheelin' bachelor
09:30 paul      (but owen has a wife & a baby...)
09:30 kados     yep ;-)
09:30 osmoze    i had wrote a mail for the bug this morning to you owen
09:31 paul      free wheelin ???
09:31 owen      I didn't realize osmoze = Jean-Sébastien
09:31 paul      (bachelor I think I understand, as we have a real-TV programm called "the bachelor" ...)
09:31 kados     paul: free-wheelin' is an idiom for 'does anything he wants' ;-)
09:31 kados     paul: I'm not sure where it came from
09:31 osmoze    yes owen :)
09:33 kados     paul: I don't see anything on the bull-home.pl screen
09:33 kados     (asside from the Serials Subscriptions blank page)
09:34 kados     paul: do you need proof reading?
09:34 paul      I need some proof reading & be sure that it's clear enough.
09:34 paul      (type SVM in title filter, you'll get 3 subscriptions)
09:34 owen      osmoze, when you click the 'submit' button on the selectbranchprinter page it doesn't submit the form?
09:35 paul      because between subscription detail, subscription list, issues... i'm not sure buttons are clear enough.
09:35 kados     paul: ok i see now
09:35 kados     paul: but I only see one subscription with three notes ;-)
09:36 paul      that's 3 subscriptions for the same title
09:37 kados     paul: IMO you don't need _It_ began on ...
09:37 kados     paul: Began on ... is fine
09:38 owen      paul: Recieve -> Receive
09:38 kados     paul: what is NE PAS BULLETINER !!!! NOTICE FAUSSE
09:39 kados     paul: paul false note?
09:39 paul      "don't use, wrong biblio"
09:39 paul      (wrong subscription)
09:39 paul      in 2.2.3, you can delete a subscription only if there is no serial.
09:39 paul      it seems it was a bad idea (everybody here complains about it ;-) )
09:39 owen      I think the ISSN button isn't very clear to a new user.  The title attribute helps a little.
09:39 paul      so i'll remove this feature.
09:40 kados     paul: paul can't I click on the title from the initial search results to go to the item?
09:41 paul      why do you want to do this ?
09:41 kados     paul: dunno ... :-)
09:41 kados     paul: /me is used to titles as links
09:42 owen      I agree with kados.  I'm used to seeing titles as links
09:43 kados     Recieved Issue is a bit confusing:  ,N° 233,N° 234,N° 235,N° 236,N° 237,N° 238,N° 239
09:43 paul      what would you expect ?
09:43 paul      N°233 -> 239 ?
09:44 kados     N° is confusing
09:44 paul      (in french, it should be written N° 233 -> )
09:44 kados     how about just the numbers without the N
09:44 paul      (without anything after the -> to say the subscription is still "alive")
09:44 paul      the N° has been typed by EMN
09:44 owen      That's generated by the numbering formula, right Paul?
09:44 paul      it's not koha-calculated
09:44 kados     ok
09:44 owen      So it's up to the library to set it
09:45 paul      right owen.
09:45 owen      If we used it, it might say "Vol. IV, No. 3"
09:45 kados     I have a general commment about the buttons
09:45 paul      we could even say "Vol 2005-1 N°124"
09:45 paul      (with 3 variables)
09:46 kados     I think you need a bit more padding around the text
09:47 kados     especially those on the 'complete view' page
09:47 kados     also, rolling over 'back to biblio', the text is crossed out
09:47 paul      (like this ?)
09:48 paul      (you mean in serial-issues.pl with selectview=complete ?)
09:48 kados     yes
09:48 osmoze    that this owen
09:48 paul      right, go to see another page ;-)
09:50 kados     on bull-home (now) the buttons on the right-hand side are scrunched together and they ovverlap
09:50 kados     so now you need more margin on the buttons ;-)
09:52 paul      should be better now.
09:54 kados     better ...
09:54 kados     I always resort to checking 800x600
09:54 kados     because at NPL many librarians must use this resolution
09:54 kados     (and I suspect elsewhere too)
09:55 kados     the Firefix Web Developer plugin allows you to custommize browser sizes to it's easy to check
09:55 kados     with the click of a button ;-)
09:56 paul      i resize to 1024 with webdev ;-)
09:57 kados     ahh ;-)
10:10 thd       paul: you had said that Koha does not use MARC::Record
10:10 paul      no
10:10 paul      (or i was drunk ;-) )
10:11 paul      (and as I never drink alcohol...)
10:11 paul      koha make HIGH use of MARC::Record !
10:12 thd       paul: OK. I had asked about the support for different flavours of MARC in MARC::Record.
10:13 paul      I said we just ignore 2 methods of MARc::Record : ->title() and ->author()
10:13 paul      all other are MARC flavour independant.
10:13 paul      and we use them a lot.
10:13 paul      (what has always be strange to me is that an iso2709 don't say anywhere "i'm UNIMARC" or "i'm MARC21")
10:14 paul      because 200$a means title in UNIMARC
10:14 paul      while it's 245$a in MARC21
10:14 paul      !
10:14 paul      but there's no way to "find" this in iso2709
10:15 thd       paul: How do you determine flavour from an unknown record
10:15 thd       ?
10:15 paul      I don't !
10:15 paul      (I mean automatically)
10:15 paul      when you look with a human eye, you can find
10:15 paul      searching for title/author
10:16 paul      it usually gives you a good idea.
10:16 paul      + editor / publishing year
10:16 paul      + coded informations only in 1xx UNIMARC
10:17 thd       paul: Must the user must inform the application always?
10:17 paul      I think
10:17 thd       paul: Would there be a way to determine automatically?
10:18 paul      (looking for 200 / 245 would be a solution, but un-official)
10:19 thd       paul: why does code calling MARC::ecord use 'usmarc'?
10:19 paul      ???
10:19 tim       I get an access denied error (many) trying to do a bulkmarcimport, but it looks like it's going into the database anyway.
10:20 thd       paul: Well I would have to find that example code.  Maybe 'usmarc'wa an unnecessary component of the example .
10:21 paul      thd i've understood the question.
10:21 paul      in fact, it's what I said yesterday : the module should have been called "iso2709::Record"
10:21 paul      because when you call ->as_usmarc for example, you mean "as_iso2709()" in fact
10:22 paul      if the MARC::Record contains UNIMARC semantics, it works perfectly.
10:22 paul      tim => check the user running bulkmarcimport can read /etc/koha.conf
10:23 thd       tim: That is a database permissions error for the kohaadmin user.  If you grant more permissions, I do not remember which one, to the kohaadmin user the error will go away.
10:24 tim       I'm using sudo to run bulkmarcimport as root.
10:24 tim       I never had to mess with permissions on the other installs.  I'll check into it anyway.
10:25 thd       tim: bulkmarcimport is accessing the database as the kohaadmin user unless you changed the source code.
10:26 tim       Nope.  Didn't change it.  That's what I was thinking because of the error, but this is a fresh install.  Nothing's been changed.
10:28 thd       tim: Whatever user you use to start bulkmarcimport.pl the kohaadmin user is found and used to connect to the database.  If you add more permissions for the kohaadmin user the error will go away.  It does not seem to be an imortant error though.
10:29 tim       I'm comparing permissions with the test server to see where the problem is.
10:29 thd       paul: OK I had searched every doc and comment I could find for something like as_unimarc and as_intermarc :)
10:31 thd       paul: Do you know of anything for processing the non-ISO2709 MARCS?
10:32 paul      no
10:35 thd       paul: One important one is the German MAG. Perhaps the may be a way of converting it to ISO 2709.  Maybe that means converting it to UNIMARC instead of something more trivial.
10:37 tim       The mysql database has more columns in the tables on the new install.
10:38 thd       paul: Is INTERMARC still the norm in French university libraries or such libraries with the richest collections?
10:38 paul      thd : no, it's UNIMARC
10:38 thd       paul: BnF still uses INTERMARC
10:39 paul      not really.
10:39 paul      internally they use it
10:39 paul      but all products are unimarc by default
10:39 thd       paul: internally is what I meant
10:39 paul      french universities all uses SUDOC (mandatory system), that is un UNIMARC
10:40 paul      & school ministry as well as culture ministry want everybody using unimarc
10:40 paul      (note that it seems that some ppl expect france going to change once again, for ...
10:40 paul      ...
10:40 paul      ...
10:40 paul      marc21 !!!!
10:40 thd       paul: SUDOC is a network or is it also an ILS?
10:41 paul      none of them.
10:41 paul      I explain :
10:41 paul      all libraries MUST use sudoc as cataloguing tool.
10:41 paul      (with a proprietary software)
10:42 paul      then every night, the sudoc sends a file by ftp with all changes from the day,
10:42 paul      and it's included in local ILS
10:42 paul      if you query the SUDOC, you can find who has a given material.
10:42 tim       I had to set the Lock_tables_priv to Y in the db table to get it to work.  It was one of the columns that didn't exist on the other server.
10:42 paul      but if you want to check availability, you must look at local ILS
10:42 tim       Thanks thd and paul
10:43 thd       tim :)
10:44 thd       paul: what is the URL for the SUDOC OPAC?
10:45 paul      http://www.sudoc.abes.fr/
10:46 paul      (some translation info : PEB = ILL)
10:46 thd       paul: BnF claims some data loss in converting INTERMARC to UNIMARC.
10:47 thd       paul: Is BnF is the only place INTERMARC is still used internally?
10:47 paul      afaik yes
10:48 thd       paul: Which people think that France will change to MARC 21? :)
10:56 thd       paul: When is it necessary or not to run rebuild non-MARC after chnging MARC to Koha links?
10:56 paul      usually yes.
10:56 paul      (it is)
10:57 thd       paul: The docs indicate sometimes not.  When would it not be necessary?
11:03 thd       paul: kados thinks he found a bug in rebuildnonmarc.pl last weekend.  He said that it seemed to be putting '|' in the itemtypes.
11:05 thd       paul: He told me last night that he had been too busy to report it or ask you about it.
11:06 thd       paul: But you did write the code once, did you not? :)
11:06 paul      I don't know why it would happend a |, but i'll try when I have some time.
11:06 paul      yes.
11:07 paul      (not today, it's 6Pm in France, i'll leave in some minuts)
11:07 thd       Good evening paul
11:07 owen      kados: it looks like the password updater requires a six-character password.  Is that correct?
11:09 kados     owen: could be ... I haven't checked
11:09 kados     owen: not a bad thing though is it?
11:10 owen      No, I just wanted to confirm before I wrote the error message
11:10 owen      The translator's being a little vague
11:10 kados     gotcha
11:10 kados     :-)
11:28 thd       owen: There is a message for MARC export falsely claiming that items will not be exported.
11:30 owen      thd: a problem with the template?
11:30 kados     owen: I think it's just a bogus message
11:37 tim       When I tried MARC export, it exported everything when I just asked it to export 10 records.
11:44 thd       wen: just a suggestion to remove it from the templates if the message is as out of date as it appears to be.
11:44 thd       owen: above
11:47 owen      So it shouldnt' say "items are NOT exported by this tool"...because they are?
11:47 thd       tim: had you selected a range of biblionumbers?  The ones that Koha stores, not the ones from your old 001 fields?
11:47 thd       owen: They certainly seem to be.
11:48 thd       owen: I was going to confirm that with paul in case of some hidden error but he became paul-away at that moment.
11:51 thd       owen: sorry, I was up last night nursing a file system issue.  I got too late a start again today :)