Time Nick Message 11:59 thd kasos: In searching for an example I noticed something odd. 11:58 thd kados: paul said that he did not know how. 11:58 kados thd: all we have to do is tell the template to concatenate those entries 11:58 kados thd: that should be an easy fix 11:58 thd kados: yes, and every OPAC that I know gets this right. 11:57 kados thd: the History. and Greece are missing? 11:57 kados thd: is that what you mean? 11:57 kados thd: it becomes Science and Science, ancient 11:57 thd kados: look what happens to Science--History--Greece and Science--History--Rome in the detail view 11:57 kados thd: so what's the problem? 11:56 kados thd: ok ... I'm looking at it 11:55 thd kados: http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/cgi-bin/koha/opac-MARCdetail.pl?bib=66841 11:48 thd kados: I will compare two sources for the same record to compare the subject headings 11:47 thd kados: I am having difficulty finding an example at NPL suggesteing a deeper problem with records there 11:46 kados hdl: :-) 11:46 hdl Going to take care of my lovely chid. 11:46 hdl no problem. 11:45 kados hdl: (I'm a bit behind ;-)) 11:45 kados hdl: I'll post one soon 11:44 kados hdl: not yet 11:44 hdl is there an agenda for Website meeting 11:43 kados hdl: we closed shortly after you left 11:43 kados hdl: no 11:43 hdl Did I miss anything ? 11:43 kados hdl: paul has gone to dinner with his lovely family ;-) 11:43 kados hdl: no problem ... the bugfix meeting is over now :-) 11:42 hdl Sorry. 11:42 hdl paul_away kados I had powersupply failure. 11:38 thd ok. one moment 11:38 kados search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us 11:38 kados thd: could you give me a real word example from NPL's database? 11:38 kados thd: I still don't quite understand the problem you're mentioning (in the meantime) 11:38 thd kados: I had a suggestion for paul about this but he had to leave. 11:37 kados thd: and update them monthly 11:37 kados thd: maybe even have DDC and LCC as options for import 11:37 kados thd: I'm not sure how to do it ... but I think it's the right way to proceed 11:37 kados thd: of course 11:37 thd kados: That is the way it should be done but that is for 3.0 perhaps 11:36 thd kados: circa 250,000 becomes many more and very precise. 11:36 kados thd: and then mapping subject headings for records that are imported 11:35 kados thd: what do you think about importing LC subjects into Koha as an 'authority' 11:35 thd kados: there are circ 250,00 LC subject headings but you can get more exact headings by compounding them. 11:33 thd in Koha 11:33 thd kados: So they have MARC wrong but the linking works right because of that 11:33 kados thd: but I didn't get to it 11:33 kados thd: I need to look at the MARC standard for subjects ... in fact, it was on my list for this past weekend because I wanted to make sure my mappings for my client were correct 11:32 thd kados: In your latest migration they have 650 $aMethodology--Science 11:32 thd kados: 650 $aMethodology$xScience 11:31 kados thd: so in MARC how is this data stored? 11:30 thd kados: Koha shows Methodology only in the detail view and is linked to all subjects with methodology including Methodology--sociology 11:28 thd kados: example methodology--science 11:28 kados thd: I need an example 11:28 thd kados: If a subject is divided with subdivisions only the first subdivision appears and is lined in the detail view. 11:27 kados owen: if it works for you ;-) 11:27 kados owen: I'd mark it as WORKSFORME 11:27 kados thd: I'm not sure I grok it 11:27 kados thd: could you explain the problem first? 11:26 thd kados: the library you had just migrated works around this problem with nonstandard data :) 11:26 kados thd: no ... could you explain it? 11:25 thd kados: did you understand what I was referring to about subject linking in the details view? 11:24 owen I don't suppose anyone can confirm bug 1005? I don't see any problem here. 11:24 kados paul_away: read you soon 11:23 paul (6:30PM for me thd) 11:23 paul frenchies here will try to have a good night ;-) 11:23 thd good day paul 11:23 paul ok, have nice day americans. 11:22 kados I've got some stuff to do too ;-) 11:22 kados let's close the bug meeting 11:22 kados great 11:22 paul I have their DB, i'll look. 11:22 kados 892: data in a closed order appear differently than data before c 11:21 kados right 11:21 paul ok, guy, 1 or 2 bugs, & i'll have to leave. 11:21 owen I can try 11:21 paul maybe a mail could be a good idea. 11:21 kados owen: can you look into it? 11:21 paul yes. but we didn't hear from him since a long time 11:20 paul and the only change done recently has been done by me, and it was related to copying css & non translatable files. 11:20 kados so acli needs to do that I suppose 11:20 paul tmpl_process3 must be modified to handle charset management. 11:20 kados ahh 11:19 kados owen: do you know of a way to fix it? 11:19 paul (know) 11:19 owen I'm not even sure what would have to be chagned. 11:19 paul not that I no. 11:19 owen Nothing has changed to affect that bug, I think 11:19 kados I was wondering if it has been fixed since then 11:19 kados ok ... but 885 was quite a while ago 11:19 paul so he knows what he is speaking of ;-) 11:19 paul acli is the tmpl_process3.pl author & bugreporter 11:18 paul probably 11:18 kados paul: is 885 valid? 11:17 kados 885: Non-ISO8859-1 charset support broken in CSS theme in 2.2 11:17 kados :-) 11:17 paul no hesitation ;-) 11:17 paul => chris 11:17 kados 995: Group Maintenace Looks like it should do something but it do 11:16 kados paul: ok ;-) 11:16 paul ok, joshua, you can FIXED if ;-) 11:16 owen As far as I know. 11:15 kados owen: do you agree? 11:15 paul mmm... 810 seems fixed to me. 11:14 paul thd : that works in MARC view. lot of problems in non MARC view. And I was speaking of the same thing as you were. 11:14 kados 810: Cannot set renewal limit, renewals always set to 0 11:13 kados paul: ok ... great 11:13 thd s/subsubjecta only/subjecta only/ 11:13 paul 15 minuts. 11:13 kados paul: how much longer can we work on bugs today? 11:13 kados thd: I'm interested to know what you mean 11:13 kados thd: lets talk about this after the bug meeting 11:12 kados (each URL is actually a set 'title' and 'url' ... I can't remember the subfields now but they are linked somehow in the record ... at the time I couldn't figure out a way to have Koha link them) 11:12 thd paul, kados: I had been speaking of linking to what you had referred to as 'builded' subjects in the OPAC: so that subjecta--subsujectx links to subsubjecta-subsubjectx and not merely displaying as subsubjecta only in the OPAC. 11:12 paul maybe i could give it a try, but not sure, as i'm not sure to be able to reproduce it. 11:12 paul we let 864 open, for sure. and wait for someone to fix it. 11:11 kados (I discovered them after I added MARCURLS subroutine) 11:11 kados (the urls have titles: 'Table of Contents' and 'Summary' in the MARC record) 11:11 paul ??? 11:11 kados so what are we doing about 864? 11:10 kados (if you want to really improve it you will get the 'titles' to show up as the anchor for the url :-)) 11:10 kados (thanks :-)) 11:10 paul (& in fact i was just improving a little some of your code) 11:09 paul in non marc view, when MARC=off, there should be no changes 11:09 paul yes, but they work only when MARC=ON, in non marc view. 11:09 kados paul: am I correct? 11:09 kados paul: about marc=off ... I think I saw a fix in the MARCURLS code you recently fixed ;-) 11:08 paul thd : not sure I was speaking of the same thing you were. 11:07 kados thd: using the 'seealso' fields 11:07 kados thd: Koha can already do this 11:07 thd paul: It is something every good ILS does easily now. 11:07 kados someone needs to go through and fix all the marc=off bugs 11:06 kados ok ... so now getting back to 864 :-) 11:06 paul thd : not soon. some pitfalls i don't know yet how to solve 11:05 hdl 2.2.2b 11:05 kados very nice 11:05 thd paul: when will 6XX $a $x $etc. link to the appropriate match in opac-details.pl instead of just linking 6XX $a? 11:05 paul (or in 2.2.3 ?) 11:05 paul it's something hdl added in 2.2.2 iirc 11:05 owen It's fairly new 11:05 kados paul: wow ... I didn't even know that existed 11:05 owen I was confused by the "..." in your sentance. 11:04 owen Oh, right. 11:04 paul you can do a "dictionnary" search here. 11:04 paul click on the ... after subject line 11:04 kados actually, I think we could nab LOC subject headings 11:04 paul http://bureau.paulpoulain.com:9018/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl 11:04 paul owen : 11:03 hdl you can use dictionary to get all dog related subject ;) 11:03 kados getting back to 864 11:03 kados thd: agreed 11:03 kados ok 11:03 thd there is much thought that should go into subject searching. 11:02 paul that shows all subjects containing "dog". 11:02 paul atm, there is the ... on the right of the subject search. 11:02 kados paul: but I'm not sure if everyone agrees that that's the right way to do it 11:01 kados paul: ok ... so that's what I would like to see happen 11:01 kados paul: hehe 11:01 paul kados : ask the release manager ;-) 11:01 kados paul: (I mean, is that the way your libraries want it to work as well?) 11:01 kados paul: is such functionality planned for Koha 3.0? 11:00 kados so when you did a search for 'dogs' it would give you categories to choose from to refine the search 11:00 owen Oh yeah, I see now 11:00 paul so it's for chris ;-) 11:00 kados the old Koha used to keep track of the subject headings 11:00 paul 864 is a MARC=off bug i think 11:00 kados 864 brings up problems with subject searching in general 11:00 owen No more subject search, eh? 10:59 kados 864: Subject search results not limited, show all results 10:59 paul or someone would have said it 10:59 kados paul close it out? 10:58 kados cool 10:58 paul 989 is fixed. 10:58 kados owen: still a problem? 10:58 kados hehe 10:58 paul ;-) 10:58 kados 989: Can't add authority (javascript error) 10:58 paul in french we say "missing persons are always wrong" 10:58 kados :-) 10:58 paul hehe... 10:58 kados I'll assign it to chris 10:57 kados at NPL too 10:57 thd Of course, that is clear. 10:57 owen about bug 682: I agree with paul. Too much trouble to fix. Maybe down the road when it's time for a re-write of the whole script we can tackle it then 10:56 paul ok 10:56 kados heh 10:56 paul patrons are a pain ;-) 10:56 kados paul: I've already noted it and will do it after the meeting 10:55 paul Is it possible to create "authority" in the components on the Koha Bug Tracker ? 10:55 kados thd: it creates some performance issues as well (I think) 10:55 paul could you take care of 10:55 paul kados : about 961 10:55 paul if you want to handle all those 7 forms completly in the template, then you must pass a lot of parameters to it, and get a too complex template & code. 10:55 kados 426: Reserving a book (with a reserve fee) results in a hostile m 10:55 kados hdl: great ... thanks 10:55 hdl kados : I assign 961 to me. 10:55 paul * textarea, for long fields 10:54 paul * authority link 10:54 paul * plugin 10:54 paul * branch list 10:54 paul * itemtype list 10:54 paul * authorized value list 10:54 paul * standard input 10:54 paul in the MARC editor, any html field (=MARC subfield) can have at least 7 forms : 10:54 paul thd : 10:53 thd paul: why is 682 unfixable? 10:53 kados 961: Error message, when deleting an authority 10:52 kados ok 10:52 paul yes. I assigne the bug to myself, with a comment 10:52 kados great ... will you commit the changes (to updatedatabase?? and install??) 10:51 paul and the solution is OK for me. no reason to have a tinyint. 10:51 paul good bugreport. 10:50 kados (in the meantime) 10:50 kados 1008: Long MARC breaks KOHA 10:50 paul owen ? 10:50 paul unless owen says no, we must find a solution to this 10:50 kados can you mark as WONTFIX? 10:50 kados ok 10:49 paul so, my opinion is that it should be kept as it. 10:49 kados true 10:49 paul (to write & to debug) 10:49 paul (those templates are already complex. if we add a logic to handle every type of fields possible, then the template will become a real pain...) 10:49 kados I'll take a look 10:48 paul almost. 10:48 paul I think it's un-fixable. 10:48 kados 682: Move HTML out of addbiblio.pl 10:48 kados yes ;-) 10:48 paul you are the reporter aren't you ;-) 10:47 kados so it is probably fixed eh? 10:47 kados lately anyway ;-) 10:47 kados I've not seen that error 10:46 kados 836: $auto_install error 10:46 kados paul: ok ... I'll reassign it to him 10:46 paul 984 is for mj 10:45 kados paul: could you send me an example of where you fixed it ... I will try to emulate your work 10:45 paul (using lock table or auto_increment where applicable) 10:45 paul I try to get rid of them when I meet them. 10:45 paul in old code, there is a lot of multiple access like this one. 10:44 kados paul: ok 10:44 paul yep 10:44 paul (but only one will be able to save, as the 2nd one will get a "barcode already exist") 10:44 kados paul: are you talking about 185? 10:44 paul (as you don't lock the database, 2 cataloguers could get the same number) 10:44 paul (note that the fix is buggy in theory) 10:43 kados 984: Bug in installer appears to not correctly escape password 10:43 paul ok 10:43 kados paul: best case scenerio it would check version and add the password correctly 10:43 kados paul: so the install should at least warn of the possible error 10:42 kados paul: right 10:42 kados 185 comes with a fix ... I wonder if Chris committed the fix 10:42 paul on 4.1 not. 10:42 paul on 4.0, it is created correctly. 10:42 paul thd : it's a mysql version problem. 10:41 thd paul: 1002 the kohaadmin user should be created with more than just use permissions on the Koha DB in the DB creation script. 10:41 kados very old ;-) 10:41 kados 185: Barcode not auto-calculated when autobarcode is on 10:41 paul commiting & changing status. 10:41 paul i've fixed it on my computer today. 10:40 paul mmm... 10:40 kados 680: Intranet doesn't allow linking of subject headings 10:39 owen I'll take a look. I've never seen this problem before. 10:39 kados owen: can you take care of this? 10:39 kados 1005: mouse's click doesn't work in submit button 10:39 paul ok 10:39 kados paul: I'll report them later today 10:38 kados paul: related to updatedatabase 10:38 kados paul: there are a few other installation bugs I haven't reported yet 10:38 paul I don't know what to do with it. 10:37 kados paul: could you look at 1002? 10:36 kados assigned to MJ 10:36 kados 1002: Error in bulkmarcimport indicates possible permissions probl 10:36 kados ok 10:36 paul I use show columns where the old api hardcoded the fields. I'll fix it too. 10:36 kados paul: ok ... I'll report the problem with rebuildnonmarc also 10:35 paul this bugreport is 100% right 10:35 paul probably not. 10:35 kados paul: is this the same bug? 10:35 kados paul: I noticed that running rebuildnonmarc does not work correctly 10:34 kados 1009: Not all items mapped to MARC 10:34 kados I'll update 849 with new info 10:33 kados I will bug them today 10:33 kados not yet 10:33 paul any news from argentina about the missing module in argentina code ? 10:33 paul I have an old version, so it works. I should probably upgrade :-D 10:33 kados caused by use of debian woody ;-) 10:33 kados it's a real problem 10:33 kados yep 10:32 paul seems stephen has found the culprit : the version of PDF::API2 10:31 kados 849: Error when generating barcodes 10:31 paul (acquistion) 10:31 paul hdl commited some stuff on this subject too 10:31 paul ok for both. 10:31 kados I can look at 933 10:30 kados paul: (NPL doesn't use ordering so 958 is hard for owen or i to diagnose ... maybe we should ask katipo as they have fixed some stuff lately but haven't committed to CVS) 10:30 kados 933: Cancel process results in untemplated dialogue 10:29 paul still some investigations to do. not sure to understand the bug completly 10:29 paul it has been reported by EMN too 10:29 kados so automatically gets assigned to Paul ;-) 10:28 kados 958 is partially in French ;-) 10:28 paul it's a EMN specific one. not critical 10:28 kados 958: Field "notes" becomes empty at receipt 10:27 paul yep. 10:27 kados assigned to paul already 10:27 kados 943: pb accentuations LDAP <=> KOHA 10:27 paul 925 : ok, i remove the search box immediatly 10:26 kados (no idea ... i wrote him a few months ago but didn't get a response) 10:26 owen yeah, assign it to me and I'll call for help if needed 10:26 paul (did anyone know what he's doing now ? as he never said goodbye if i don't mind) 10:26 kados 925: Currency search doesn't appear to do anything 10:26 kados heh 10:26 paul steve tonnesen won't fix it ;-) 10:25 kados owen: how do you feel about that ;-) 10:25 kados maybe assign it to owen? 10:25 kados right 10:25 paul should be fixed during template 3.0 rewritting imho 10:25 paul right. 10:25 kados an old one 10:24 kados 585: Using 'document.forms[0]' notation prevents use of other for 10:24 paul I reassign it to me. 10:24 paul half a bug & half a feature request imho 10:23 kados paul: what do you think? 10:23 kados I haven't really played very much with the suggestions functions 10:23 kados really more of a feature request I think 10:22 hdl okµ 10:22 kados 992: Suggestions doesn't check wether a biblio exists 10:22 kados hdl: great ... can you reassign it to yourself? 10:21 hdl I can try and cope with it. 10:21 paul (back) 10:21 hdl issuing rules. 10:21 hdl I tested some rules. 10:21 kados hdl: no rules ;-) 10:20 kados hdl: are you familiar with it? 10:20 kados so someone who does should take a look 10:20 kados I don't know that code very well 10:20 hdl Is this patch to be acknowledged by everyone ? 10:20 paul (on phone) 10:19 kados this one comes with a patch ;-) 10:19 kados 1001: Issuing Rules Error 10:19 paul ok, it's for me. 10:19 paul otherwise, I can handle it easily, creating a 1 line hash & warning the user. 10:18 owen I don't know how to implement it 10:18 owen No, I just talked about the idea 10:18 paul didn't owen add something to warn the library when there is no stopword ? 10:18 kados paul handling it? 10:18 paul 790 : right, it's a stopwords problem. 10:17 owen Although moremember.pl doesn't show waiting reserves at the moment, it should. So that page needs to be updated as well. 10:17 kados is this a problem with stopwords? 10:16 kados 790: opac search on 'the' gives internal server error 10:16 paul nothing to add ;-) 10:16 kados ok 10:16 paul I'm the reporter AND the owner of this one. to be fixed, for sure. 10:16 hdl ok. 10:16 paul no prob for me 10:15 kados so if it's ok with everyone we'll go in my order 10:15 hdl ok for me. 10:15 kados (IIRC the order is not consistant because the Severity level is normal) 10:14 paul it's 864 for me 10:14 paul nope 10:14 kados (is this next on everyone's list?) 10:14 kados 975: serials : renewal of a subscription 10:14 owen (I just don't know if it's the most efficient method) 10:13 kados yep 10:13 owen Maybe it's simpler to put this information in the reserves table somehow, but to fix the bug now the above method works 10:13 paul ok 10:13 kados owen: I'll look at it after the meeting 10:13 paul who checks ? 10:13 paul right. 10:13 kados paul: and as far as I know it wouldn't break anything else in Koha (should work with existing transit code) 10:13 owen If they're different, the book must still be in transit, and thus the patron shouldn't be told the book is "waiting for them" 10:12 kados right ... that does sound simple 10:12 owen If they're the same, the 'waiting' status should be shown: the book has arrived 10:12 owen holdingbranch (where the book is now) and pickup branch (where the reserve says the book should go) 10:12 owen It's pretty simple, really: we just need to grab two pieces of information in the script, and compare them 10:11 kados owen: could you expand just a bit on the transfer process that we're using? maybe we need to change it. 10:11 paul (going back 2 hours ago ;-) 10:11 paul (that's why katipo uses a "transit" branch...) 10:11 owen Right now the template can't show whether an item has reached its destination branch 10:10 owen to fix bug 670 we need to do some work on circulation.pl 10:10 kados paul: if so I will add them after the meeting, owen can test and report back 10:10 kados paul: to test 670 do we only need a few lines from opac-user.pl and request.pl? 10:09 paul yep 10:08 kados yep ... so assigned to chris then? 10:08 paul 670 requires owen's opinion... 10:08 paul 993 / 994 / 991 are MARC=OFF related too. 10:08 paul (was trying few minuts ago, but not simple) 10:08 kados great 10:08 paul bug 472 is the next on the list. I'll take care of it ASAP 10:07 paul lol 10:07 thd paul: hopefully, one day I will squash the bugs that I introduce :) 10:07 kados yep 10:07 paul the bug 893 is for chris, as it's MARC=OFF related. 10:06 kados ok ... the note on bug 893 refers to bug 1002 ... my mistake 10:05 kados owen finally has internet ;-) 10:05 owen Oh, bug squashing today? I forgot 10:05 kados should we post-pone? 10:05 kados :-) 10:05 paul i'm afraid there is only hdl, me, you, and the logbot (& thd, but he's not a coder, so won't endorse any bug ;-) ) 10:04 kados paul: good point ;-) 10:04 hdl I 10:04 paul 1st question : who's there ? 10:03 kados so bug 893: Can't get past biblio info page in simple acquisitions 10:02 paul (I squashed 5 today) 10:02 kados I count 60 bugs: http://tinyurl.com/as66z 10:00 kados now in fact ;-) 10:00 kados paul: yes ... 10:00 kados thd: if you're trying to map between different flavours of MARC Zebra does this automatically 10:00 paul (shouldn't we have a debugging session in less than 1mn ?) 10:00 thd kados: hooray, thank you paul for 000 :) 09:59 paul it should 09:59 paul to see if it's working well too. 09:59 paul (try the plugin now) 09:59 paul ie : the field mapped to biblio.title 09:59 kados thanks paul! 09:59 paul thd : the marc2koha links 09:59 kados so it's perfect ;-) 09:59 kados 00502nam 2200145 a 4500 09:59 thd paul: What does Koah use instead? 09:59 kados and in catalog I see: 09:59 paul hurray ! 09:59 kados LDR 00502nam 2200145 a 4500 09:59 kados paul: in dumpmarc.pl I see: 09:58 kados paul: the leader is working 09:58 paul that's why Koha never uses it. 09:58 paul the only problem is the $record->title() & record->author() that sends MARC21 title/author field 09:57 paul because it supports any MARC flavour without problem 09:57 paul it should be called iso2709::Record 09:57 paul my opinion is that MARC::Record is poorly named. 09:57 thd paul: What would it take for MARC::Record to support INTERMARC or some other MARCs? 09:56 kados paul: now ... 09:56 paul I now, i'm compiling it atm 09:56 kados paul: I'm testing leader import no 09:55 thd paul: http://www.bl.uk/services/bibliographic/usemarcon.html 09:54 thd paul: The British Library version runs from the command line. 09:53 thd paul: The GUI version also runs on UNIX. 09:52 paul mmm... new versions seems to work on linux. 09:52 paul I have no windows ;-) 09:52 paul I remember now why i didn't use this tool : 09:51 paul looking at usemarcon website... 09:51 thd paul: USEMARCON would have most likely accomplished the task, but the free version only has rules defined for UKMARC included. The free version is from the British Library. I have failed to find a well publicised source for other rule sets to download directly. BnF seems to have been using USEMARCON to convert between INTERMARC and UNIMARC. 09:44 paul I have some home made tools 09:44 paul no. 09:43 thd paul: When you had been needing to convert MARC 21 to UNIMARC for a library, had you investigated USEMARCON? 09:42 paul if kados confirms, i commit the fix immediatly ;-) 09:42 paul right. 09:42 thd paul: So, you had fixed the code on a nonstandard version that you have withoout adding it to the standaerd bulkmarcimport for distribution? 09:40 paul (& some libraries don't want to show to the world their cataloguing rules as they are awful :-D ) 09:40 paul because they are library dependant 09:40 paul no, of course. 09:40 thd paul: These nonstandard versions are not in CVS are they? 09:39 paul (for example, the one i'm migrating atm has ISBD punctuations signs inside the MARC record. And we need to remove them) 09:39 paul so I have almost as many versions of bulkmarcimport as I have migrated libraries 09:38 paul thd : all libraries I migrate want to do some cleaning on datas before importing. 09:38 thd paul: What is nonstandard bulkmarkimport? 09:38 paul my $newRecord = MARC::Record->new(); 09:38 paul just after 09:38 paul $newRecord->leader($record->leader()); 09:37 paul if yes, then you should add : 09:37 paul mmm... I think I understand : do you use standard bulkmarcimport ? 09:37 paul are you sure you are not doing anything to your datas before calling NEWnewbiblio ? 09:36 paul kados : i just tested bulkmarcimport on 100 biblios, and it works fine (including leader) 09:36 thd kados: Koha should be able to export and otherwise make use of a variety of XML formats at some point; but I Imagine it would be easier to support feature development if MARC was underlying, along with Koha tables, than it would be to add new features using MARC, XML, and Koha tables. 09:28 thd kados: I am just supposing that it would be much easier to define a simple set of MARC fields and subfields to map than it would be to map to an additonal format, such as XML. 09:23 thd kados: Then why not just keep the MARC record and MAP that to the Koha columns? 09:22 kados thd: map MARC->XML fields 09:19 thd kados: If non-MARC is in XML how will it enjoy the benefit of copy cataloguing? 09:01 paul that's enough for most libraries. 09:01 paul (like what I did for bibliotheque de sociologie) 09:00 paul with css opac stylesheet, we can do really nice things on opac. 09:00 kados very hard to sync everything 09:00 kados hehe ... yes it is a real problem 09:00 paul (i often speak of owen in fact ;-) ) 09:00 kados good plan ;-) 09:00 paul ;) 09:00 paul I convince all my customers of the problems due to local templates 09:00 kados ahh :-) 09:00 paul i don't have customized templates. 08:59 kados paul: how do you handle internal development for a client (like customized templates) do you have your own internal CVS? if so, how do you sync it with sourceforge? 08:59 Sylvain des leaders ? 08:58 paul dont la gestion des leaders, réclamée par tout le monde... 08:58 paul (2.2.4, pardon) 08:58 paul les idées pour la v3.0 sont bien posées maintenant, hdl et moi travaillons sur des nouveautés intéressantes pour la 2.2.3 08:58 paul ca va, ca bosse bien. 08:57 Sylvain merci :) Alors la planete koha va bien en ces mois d'été ? 08:57 paul bienvenue ici 08:57 paul hello amigo ! 08:57 Sylvain hi all ! 08:47 paul but don't see how complex it will be to code ;-) 08:47 paul good idea. 08:47 kados paul: what do you think? 08:46 kados paul: since Zebra can search XML documents just fine 08:46 kados paul: instead of using MARC for non-MARC libraries ... we should use XML 08:46 kados paul: so my idea is 08:46 kados paul: because the search in Zebra will be to a MARC database 08:46 kados paul: when we move to zebra non-MARC libraries will have a problem 08:45 kados paul: that I would like to get your opinion on 08:45 kados paul: I did have an idea yesterday 08:45 kados paul: I think that's all my questions for now ;-) 08:44 kados great ... thanks! 08:44 paul then, New category >> type what you want as category name, enter your list 08:44 paul (in default templates, dunno with owen's one) 08:44 kados paul: (owen could explain this better than me) 08:43 kados paul: (whether it has arrived or not) 08:43 paul Koha >> parameters >> authorised values 08:43 kados paul: there is no way to inform the patron of the status of the item 08:43 kados paul: I"m just learning frameworks 08:43 paul and what is wrong with this way of doing things ? 08:43 kados paul: so where do I define the authorized value called 'status'? 08:42 kados when the box arrives, the librarian returns all the items 08:42 kados staff acknowleges the flag and puts the book in a box for that branch 08:41 kados a book comes in with a flag that it's on reserve for someone at another branch 08:41 paul how do you do transfers ? 08:41 kados I just checked: we dont' have a 'transit' branch defined 08:41 kados it's katipo's way of doing it ;-) 08:40 paul or is it katipo way of doing transfer ? 08:40 paul * when the book arrives in dest branch, "return" it, Koha automatically set the branch to "dest branch" for the item 08:39 paul * transfert to "transit branch" 08:39 paul I thought you were doing : 08:39 kados no ... NPL doesn't use transfers in Koha 08:39 kados can staff easily set the status? 08:38 paul don't NPL use a "transit" branch for this ? 08:38 kados (to a branch) 08:38 kados book is in transit 08:38 kados right ... what about 08:38 paul >0 = book can't be issued 08:38 paul 0- book can be issued 08:38 paul now you have a status list that means : 08:37 paul and use authorized value 'status' for it 08:37 paul go to the field that is mapped to notforloan. 08:37 paul ... 08:37 paul 3- withdrawn 08:37 paul 2- being repaired 08:37 paul 1- not for loan 08:37 paul 0 available 08:37 paul enter : 08:37 paul define an authorized value called "status" 08:36 paul yes, of course... I explain : 08:36 kados we do? 08:36 paul we already have ;-) 08:36 kados so the statuese are not hard-coded 08:36 kados what do you think about having user-defined statuses? 08:36 kados I see ... 08:35 paul } 08:35 paul $issuingimpossible{RESTRICTED} = 1; 08:35 paul if ($iteminformation->{'restricted'} == 1) { 08:35 paul } 08:35 paul $issuingimpossible{WTHDRAWN} = 1; 08:35 paul if ($iteminformation->{'wthdrawn'} == 1) { 08:35 paul } 08:35 paul $issuingimpossible{NOT_FOR_LOAN} = 1; 08:35 paul if ($iteminformation->{'notforloan'} > 0) { 08:35 paul OK : 08:35 kados right ... but I've been reading about EDI and it seems that some book vendors put their ID into the MARC record for identification purposes for the ILS 08:34 paul we speak of acquisition module here, not MARC record origin. 08:34 paul wthdrawn probably too, all other are unknown to me. 08:33 kados IIRC some vendors put their id into the MARC record (in the 001 field?) 08:33 paul about items statuses : i'm sure that itemlost is used. 08:33 paul it seems it contains the booksellerid. but it's not handled in the MARC record. 100% sure. 08:32 kados are we using statuses in items: 'itemlost' 'wthdrawn' 'restricted' 'paidfor' etc.? 08:32 paul about booksellerid : 08:32 paul all this comes from katipo, you should ask them for a correct answer ;-) 08:32 kados what is 'stack' and 'binding' 08:31 kados 'price' 'replacementprice' and 'replacementpricedate' ??? 08:31 kados is 'multivolumepart' related to volumedate and volumedesc? 08:30 kados is 'booksellerid' linked to acquisitions? 08:30 kados definitely 08:30 paul quite simple & improves a lot useability imho 08:29 kados very nice 08:29 kados paul: i was just going to tell you that I love them ;-) 08:29 paul kados : what do you think of my new dynamic menus in rel_2_2 ? 08:26 paul I use volumedate & volume desc to store infos about multi-volume books 08:26 kados not a serial 08:25 kados multi-volume maybe 08:25 kados hmmm ... 08:25 paul how do you call a book that is published in 4 parts ? 08:25 kados periodicals are journals 08:25 kados but I"m not sure how to distinguish between serials/periodicals and books 08:25 kados the records i am importing contain many serials and periodicals 08:24 kados do you use biblio 'serial'? 08:24 kados could you explain how to use them for serials? 08:24 paul I use them for serials anyway ;-) 08:24 paul volumedate & volumedesc are probably for serials. 08:23 paul subclass was done to have dewey class & subclass i think 08:23 paul it will be used in 3.0 to store the raw marc record, in iso2709, probably 08:23 paul the "marc" field is useless. 08:22 kados in items I have several questions: 08:22 kados sorry ... the above are biblioitems 08:21 kados also volumedate, volumeddescc, and marc 08:21 kados but I'm not sure what to use 'subclass' for 08:21 kados so the client can use both LOC and Dewey (they are currently using Dewey but want to switch to LOC) 08:20 kados dewey 942 k dewey 08:20 kados classification 050 a Classification number 08:20 kados in items: 08:19 kados do you know of good MARC mappings for these two? 08:19 kados in biblio: serial and copyrightdate 08:18 kados ok ... i've some questions about Koha fields 08:18 kados but that's another topic ;-_ 08:18 kados if it's worth it 08:18 kados right ... it's too bad ... with Zebra we should investigate to see if we can do a FRBRization of our data 08:17 paul so, you have only 1 biblio = 1 biblioitems. 08:17 kados right 08:17 paul in MARC model, you just have biblio & items. 08:17 paul in Katipo DB model, you can have 1 biblio => X biblioitems => Y items 08:17 paul yes but no. 08:16 kados ok nevermind that one ;-) 08:16 kados hmmm ... I think I just answered my own question ;-) 08:15 kados and _one_ 942 is mapped to _one_ biblioitems table field 08:15 paul you're right on this 08:15 kados it seems to me that _one_ 952 is mapped to _one_ Koha items table field 08:14 kados ok ... I am confused about the way MARC Koha handles holdings 08:13 paul biblionumber & biblioitemnumber are mapped in 090 by default 08:13 kados sorry ... it wasn't very clear 08:13 paul i'm not sure i understand your question 08:11 kados (and will Koha update them when the biblio/item information changes?) 08:11 kados so should they be mapped? how can we get them into the MARC record? 08:09 kados but I haven't found them anywhere ... I'd like to map them to the MARC record as I think it will be helpful when we move to zebra 08:09 kados you mention them in the help file 08:09 kados the default mappings for things like biblionumber, biblioitemnumber and itemnumber ... and for reserves, restricted, etc. 08:08 paul ok, i always have time for you. 08:08 kados if you have time 08:08 kados so ... I've some more questions too 08:07 paul mmm, i will investigate my code, it seems to be highly buggy ;-) 08:07 kados yes ... ;-) 08:07 paul wow !!! big bug !!! 08:07 paul ou mean your 50 000 records have a leader, and only 2 of them are imported with the leader ? 08:06 kados some examples 08:06 kados LDR 00435nas 2200181 u 4500 08:06 kados LDR 00408nas 2200157 u 4500 08:06 kados LDR 00575nam 2200145 a 4500 08:06 kados using dumpmarc.pl I see leaders with every record 08:05 paul maybe my code is still buggy ;-) 08:05 paul maybe i've forgotten to commit something, but i don't think so. 08:04 paul (go to edit biblio again) 08:04 paul try to enter a record manually & see if it's correctly stored & shown after creation 08:04 kados I will check with dumpmarc.pl 08:03 kados :-) 08:03 kados maybe it's a problem with the records 08:03 kados but only 2 records out of 50,000 have leaders ;-) 08:03 kados I think they are correct 08:02 paul is it what you were expecting ? 08:02 paul does this sound OK ? 08:02 kados +--------------------------+ 08:02 kados | NULL | 08:02 kados | 01458cam 2200325Ia 45x0 | 08:02 kados | 00982nam 2200265Ka 4500 | 08:02 kados | | 08:02 kados +--------------------------+ 08:02 kados | subfieldvalue | 08:02 kados +--------------------------+ 08:01 kados mysql> select distinct(subfieldvalue) from marc_subfield_table where tag='000' limit 0,20; 08:00 paul you mean they contains space(24) ? 07:59 kados let me do a select 07:59 kados but they appear blank 07:59 kados the 000 tags are there 07:59 kados yes I tried that 07:59 paul (should give you >0) 07:59 paul mmm... try : select count(*) from marc_subfield_table where tag='00' 07:58 kados yes ... up-to-date 07:57 paul &MARCaddsubfield($dbh,$bibid,'000','',$fieldcount+1,'',1,$record->leader); 07:57 paul line 372, you should have : 07:57 kados and now I look for the leader from the MARC view or from the 'edit biblio' screen 07:57 paul is your Biblio.pm uptodate ? for example : 07:57 kados then imported with bulkmarcimport.pl 07:57 paul ok, well done too. 07:57 kados Tab 0; not repeatable; not mandatory 07:56 paul ok, that's what is required. 07:56 paul i did not test bulkmarcimport yet, but manual adding of a biblio works well for me. 07:56 kados well first I added tag 000 with subfield @ 07:56 paul what did you do ? 07:55 kados it seems it's not (unless I'm looking in the wrong places) 07:55 kados I've tried importing records with bulkmarcimport.pl to see if the leader is imported as well 07:55 kados paul: I've got a few questions 07:55 paul 'morning joshua 07:54 kados hi all 02:37 hdl hi 02:37 paul salut hdl, tu m'appelles qd tu es disponible ST P? 18:18 thd chris: sorry, go back to work and I will accost you on Tuesday :) 18:16 thd can I find 809.18 if I search for 809.1* 18:16 chris (monday is busy) 18:16 chris and now im really back to work, ill be able to chat again after work 18:15 chris thats up to them 18:15 chris i dont see it as koha's job to enforce a library's cataloguing rules 18:15 chris whatever you want 18:14 thd prefix meaning 'J' for juvenile for example? 18:14 chris right back to work i go 18:14 chris and order 18:14 chris just if you only have numbers in dewey, its much faster to search 18:13 chris they dont have to work together, and they werent designed so that they had 2 18:13 chris classification, 18:13 thd chris: where is prefix? 18:12 chris prefix dewey suffix basically 18:11 chris but it could be book 809.18 f 18:11 thd chris: what was the original design? 18:11 chris most ppl just chuck everything in dewey 18:10 chris all three are available to the templates 18:10 chris you can use them how you want really 18:09 thd chris, rach, si: what is the usage of biblioitems.dewey and biblioitems.subclass, as compared to biblioitems.classification? 18:09 thd chris, rach, si: good morning 15:59 kados thd: :-) 15:59 thd kados: Debian is too dangerous :-) 15:58 kados thd: Linux From Scratch ... I'm working on my own distro for use with DiscrimiNet (smaller footprint, more security, etc.) 15:57 thd kados: LFS? 15:57 thd kados: Wow, itemnumber seems to be a database wide autoincremented value rather than incremented for each MARC record. Not what I had expected. 15:55 kados thd: enough Koha for one weekend ;-) 15:55 kados thd: right ... well I've still got to hack on my LFS a bit today 15:49 kados for all of them I guess 15:49 kados yea ... that's what I was thinking 15:49 thd varchar (100) is the popular suggeston for the DB on koha-devel 15:48 thd :) 15:48 kados thd: :-) 15:48 kados thd: ahh ... it's the format of the field 15:46 kados thd: I wonder if I messed up the conversion somehow 15:46 kados thd: weird ... the dewey is coming out all strange like 15:45 kados thd: working on that now ;-) 15:45 thd kados: you still need DDCnumbers in the call number column of course, as most detail records still have no call number. 15:42 kados thd: and maybe update the records in the background with a batch process 15:42 kados thd: I suspect we will continue to use mysql for transactional stuff 15:42 kados thd: we'll have to run some tests with the Zoom API to see whether it's load-effective to do transactions off the MARC data or not 15:41 kados thd: I'm not sure about the load issues yet 15:40 thd kados: Well, on second thought, that is a much lower risk than joining tables for every search to check status. 15:39 thd kados: If you write charged in and out status to the MARC records constantly you will have a risk of thrashing the system would you not? 15:38 thd kados: Having all subject subdivisions in 650 $a instead of 650 $a $x $etc. does partially fix a bothersome Koha though for linking between detailed subject headings in the detail view. 15:36 kados thd: we need a 'status' for items 15:35 thd kados: I can see some of that. 15:34 kados some formats were locations and some locations were formats ;-) 15:34 kados thd: they had very unnormalized records 15:34 kados thd: still waiting to hear back from the client on correct format->itemtype and location->location mappints 15:33 kados thd: well i'd have to anyway ;-) 15:33 thd kados: I guess you have to rerun your import :( 15:33 thd kados: there has been some recent discussion of this on koha-devel. The suggestion is to change the format and size of the column. 15:32 kados thd: so the callnumbers are getting truncated 15:31 kados thd: biblioitems.dewey is double(8,6) 15:30 kados thd: biblioitems.classification is only 25 15:30 kados thd: items.itemcallnumber is only 30chars 15:30 kados thd: here are some problems 15:28 kados thd: that would be nice 15:24 thd I have lots of experience running batched z39.50 searches against LC and other targets. Using softcover ISBNs can sometimes be a significant problem without a database to match them. There are potentially expensive commercial databases for what they have. I wish XISBN worked better for this problem to match the manifestation or edition. 15:18 thd Softcover ISBNs could be a probem in that approach if LC does not have the softcover ISBN as it sometimes does not, especially for older titles. 15:16 thd A better solution is to get the LCC number from LC for each book using LCCN or ISBN in a batched z39.50 search. 15:14 thd There are several DDC to LC mappings. OCLC probably has the best but in all of them you will notice mapping between a single number and a range of numbers. 15:13 thd oh yes :) 15:12 kados thd: nope ... because I can just make a new column with the LCC numbers ;-) 15:12 thd kados: however, If you make that change then you loose your LCC numbers unless you append them. 15:11 kados thd: (which makes more sense than using classification anyway) 15:11 kados thd: yes I will change the default view to use items.itemcallnumber as the default callnumber 15:10 kados thd: for mapping DDC to LOC 15:10 kados thd: http://www.questionpoint.org/crs/html/help/en/ask/ask_map_ddctolcc.html 15:10 thd Yes, the MARC view looks nice but most people prefer the detail view or its equivalent on every system to the MARC view. 15:07 kados thd: look at the MARC view on a record 15:06 kados thd: in fact, I think NPL changed it to use classification back in the day and that became the default 15:06 kados thd: right ... but that's an easy template change 15:06 kados biblioitems.dewey is dewey 15:05 thd kados: The MARC view template was obviously designed to use items.itemcallnumber while the detail and search results templates were designed to use biblioitems.classification 15:05 kados biblioitems.classification is LOC 15:05 kados thd: here's my mapping: 15:05 kados thd: do you mean biblioitems.classification? 15:02 thd kados: you have almost no records with a call number in biblioitems.callnumber unless you want to remap the template. 15:01 kados thd: but that's a template problem I think 15:00 thd kados: separate them with a space I had meant to say. 15:00 thd kados: Right now there are no call numbers in the detail view. 15:00 kados thd: I want them both available ... but not concatenated 14:59 thd kados: As you wrote above, had not you wanted to have them both available. 14:59 thd There is no perfect one to one coresponcence between DDC and LCC. Mappings have been attempted but do not really work well enough. 14:58 kados thd: could you explain why that's a good idea? 14:58 kados thd: er? 14:57 thd kados: concatenate 852 $k, $h, $i, $m along with 852 $k, 050, $a, 050 $b, 852 $m and put them bothe in the same field. 14:56 kados thd: do you know of any programs to generate LOC from Dewey? 14:56 kados thd: and maybe I can even automate the process of getting the LOC numbers 14:56 kados thd: because that way, the OPAC can display all three (when they exist) 14:55 kados thd: I think I'm going to leave it as is 14:55 kados thd: and items.itemcallnumber 14:54 kados thd: classification and dewey in biblioitems 14:54 kados thd: there are three 14:53 kados thd: and 050 is LOC classification 14:53 kados thd: i remember now ... I wanted them to have both LOC and Dewey available 14:53 thd Well one was 852 $k $h $i $m and another would be 082 $a $b, but 852 should be preferred for actually finding the item. 14:52 kados thd: huh ... how did I miss that 14:52 kados thd: out of 50,000 ;-) 14:52 kados thd: only 57 in fact ;-) 14:50 thd hardy any :) 14:50 kados thd: could be ... what was the alternative mapping? 14:50 thd kados: Maybe very few. 14:50 kados thd: probably not 14:49 thd kados: Well, do all the records have 050 $a? 14:49 kados thd: what do you mean? 14:48 thd oh that's why. 050 $a does not appear. 14:48 kados thd: much easier ;-) 14:48 kados thd: ok ... borrowers inserted ;-) 14:47 kados thd: dewey 942 k dewey 14:47 kados thd: classification 050 a Classification number 14:19 kados thd: yep 14:08 thd kados: does call number search work for you, with the new import? 14:07 thd kasos: yes, I am here 13:59 kados thd: I'm importing into Koha now 13:46 kados thd: seems to have worked like a charm 13:45 kados thd: just ran the MARC editing script for the first time 13:45 kados thd: you still around? 13:14 thd LCC example QA76.73 becomes QA for dewey and 76.73 for subclass. 13:12 thd I believe the intention of the bblioitemIf call number is LCC split 050 $a or 852 $h between the letters and the numbers with the first string going to biblioitems.dewey and the second string going to biblioitems.subclass. 13:09 thd I believe the intention of the bblioitems.dewey v. biblioitems.subclass distinction is to separate 005 from 43 in the example above. Therefore, if call number is DDC split 082 $a or 852 $h on the '.' with the first string going to biblioitems.dewey and the second string going to biblioitems.subclass. 12:52 thd s/\(find 005\.4\)/\13/ 12:51 thd s/find 005\.4/find 005\.43/ 12:51 thd s/find 005.4/find 005.43/ 12:50 thd Searching for 005.4 does not also find 005.4 as a key word search for obvious reasons. 12:49 thd So searching for 005.43 would find that DDC class and subclass. 12:47 thd kados: I imagine that call number search is most useful if not designed to necessarily find an exact item. Closely related items in the classification could be found by their proximity in the classification scheme. 12:43 thd is 12:42 thd the error message rather funny :) 12:41 kados thd: could be 12:40 thd kados: call number search is broken at NPL. Could that be because MARC is not linked to bibliotems.dewey and biblioitems.subclass at NPL. Call numbers can be found with a key word search at NPL but then match any number in the record. 12:38 thd kados: I think 365 is rarely used in practise and 876-878 $c is repeatable to provide for cost and replacement cost. Ther is just no date subfield to accompany 876-878 $c unless placed in a parenthetical text note like the one specifying the type of cost. 39.99 (replcacement cost in U.S. dollars, set Jan. 10, 2001) for example. 12:33 kados thd: I"m pulling replacementprice from 952$9 12:31 thd $u may do 12:28 thd Oops I have 2 values mapped to 952 $r 12:27 thd From my revised mapping that I had not posted yet. Map 365 $f to 952 $r for items.replacementpricedate. 12:26 thd Yes, however, the MARC 21 equivalent of replacementpricedate is not in a MARC holdings field. I had left it out of my posted mapping. Replacement price should really be generated dynamically with a script that periodically queries a vendor or vendors. 12:25 kados thd: so price and replacementprice should both be set ... and replacementpricedate too (generated from purchase date I suppose in my automated script) 12:23 thd items.replacementprice date is the date when the replacent price was last set so one has an idea of how valid the replacement price may be if unchanged years later. 12:22 kados thd: is that a MARC distinction? 12:20 thd my mistake, items.price is the original cost and replacementprice is what it says that may change over time. 12:19 kados thd: I think it's a katipo thing 12:19 kados thd: but I'm not sure why both are there 12:19 kados thd: items.price 12:18 thd Why, there is items.replacementprice? Is cost stored elsewhere? 12:16 kados thd: its impossible to track item costs per item 12:16 thd kados: What other problem? 12:16 kados thd: the same weakness also creates another problem 12:16 thd kados: call number search is broken at NPL. 12:15 thd :-] 12:14 kados thd: yes ... never found a solution 12:14 thd kados: Were you not trying to address that very problem at NPL a week ago for damaged books? 12:13 kados thd: we'll need to design Zebra-Koha to fix that problem 12:13 kados of course ;-) 12:13 thd kados: That weakness is not present in in non-MARC Koha. 12:12 kados thd: it's a weakness of the data model 12:12 kados thd: you can't 12:11 thd kados: So, if one of your items needs to go to the bindry for repair or be held in a glass case because it has the author's own margin notes how do you prevent those from circulating while allowing other copies of the same biblio to circulate in MARC Koha? 12:08 thd kados: But in MARC Koha you only are allowed one biblioitems.itemtype for all items because biblioitems.biblioitemnumber is keyed uniquely to biblio.biblionumber, which in turn is keyed uniquely to a MARC record. 12:04 thd kados: indicators would not really be important for 942 and 952, but if 952 was modelled on 852 it might be nice to keep them the same. 12:03 kados thd: that's handled entirely by Koha using the itemtypes specified 12:03 thd kados: Well then, how do you vary the circ rules set by biblioitems.itemtype for a particular item that you want to treat differently from other items for that biblio because that item is special. 12:01 kados thd: do you have an opinion about proper indicators for 952 and 942? i guess there is no standard so leaving them blank should be ok right?