Time Nick Message 11:52 tim I'm looking into reserves 11:52 tim But overdues don't print, so I probably have something wrong there. 11:51 tim Patron records and current issues seem to be there too. 11:51 tim The MARC records seem to be in there ok now. 11:46 thd tim: what issues are you having with your record migration? 11:40 tim thd: Yeah. the first link was one of 'em. 11:07 thd tim: were referring to these http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2005/004610.html http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2004/003234.html ? 10:52 tim Were you able to dig up my Athena ramblings from the mailing list kados? 10:36 kados :-) 10:35 owen Damn you googlebot!!!!1 10:34 kados owen: I suspect googlebot or some other bot 09:58 hdl I always installed kohabase from older bases... So no idea to know if mysql would be qmsldk with updatedatabase. 09:56 thd chris had removed some mysql specific code but others had been reintroducing such code 09:55 kados hdl: not a bad idea 09:54 thd Also, there was a discussion as part of yesterday's installer meeting about removing Mysql specific code to support Koha in Postgres 09:52 hdl I had no problems of that kind. 09:52 kados hdl: hmmm ... not sure 09:51 hdl Is TinyInt allowed as auto_increment variable in this mysql version. 09:51 thd I noticed the same issue installing 2.2.2b 09:50 kados hdl: version 4.1 of mysql 09:50 kados hdl: so aqbudgetid was not there 09:50 kados hdl: the db was brand new 09:02 hdl Would you investigate in that direction ? 09:02 hdl Maybe a change in autoincrement management system ? 09:02 hdl Which version of mysql ? 09:02 hdl Brand new system ? 09:01 hdl did you try to look into the databse to see whether aqbudgetid was already there ? 08:59 kados hdl: so base was not from 2.0 08:58 kados hdl: on a brand new system 08:58 kados hdl: I downloaded 2.2.3 and installed using the installer 08:58 kados hdl: very strange 08:46 hdl I cant see any aqbudgetid addition in cvs logs... 08:45 hdl kados : Was the base a brand new one from 2.0 ??? 08:43 hdl I saw a line in updater : aqbudget : aqbudgetid... 08:43 hdl wait !! 08:41 hdl But I am working onbudget. 08:40 hdl kados : Odd ! I didnot commit anything for quite a few days now. 08:39 kados hdl: this was a new install 08:39 kados hdl: DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Invalid default value for 'aqbudgetid' at scripts/updater/updatedatabase line 1117.DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Invalid default value for 'id' at scripts/updater/updatedatabase line 1117. 08:39 kados hdl: I installed Koha 2.2.3 last night ... and got an error from the installer: 08:21 jean ok thx :) . Nice answer 08:21 hdl Nothing changed ;) 08:20 hdl No. 08:14 jean Is there a need to upgrade the 2.2 database when moving to 2.3 ? 07:51 jean hi 07:42 Ryanbisd Good mornin all.. 06:13 glatp was the meeting over? 01:28 osmoze hello all 17:34 slef slowly 17:28 Genji how goes it? 17:27 slef hi genji 17:25 Genji hiya all! 17:17 slef "Agenten sterben einsam" just doesn't suggest that to me 17:17 slef Ah, it's "Where eagles dare" 17:15 jcamins I will, but I'm inclined to doubt that I'll do anything very large or very surprising without pestering you for feedback. ;-) 17:14 slef thd_: heh. 17:14 slef and writing new configure.pl and build.pl scripts 17:14 thd_ slef: I guess there was not much more than this 25/06/05 07:14:49+-5 <slef:#koha> I'm wondering whether koha should start moving towards Locale::Maketext now that it's in the perl core since 5.8 17:14 slef If MakeMaker can't do it, I'd suggest making installer.pl into the install stage 17:13 slef warn me if you're starting any really big surprises 17:13 jcamins slef: Okay. Sounds good. Thanks! 17:12 slef jcamins: first thing is to test MakeMaker and send notes to the list. After that, just start hacking the installer and sending patches. If you want to ask my opinion, drop me an email and I'll report or come on IRC, or you can jabber at mjr@jabber.ttllp.co.uk 17:10 jcamins slef: how/when are we going to follow up on dividing the installer into configure/build/install? 17:08 chris yeah slef, we might need to do an orphaned tasks email and see if we can get some voluteers 17:08 thd_ slef: I will retreive a link. 17:07 thd_ slef: I found the require 5.8 discussion. You were there participating. 17:06 slef chris: I'm not sure whther kados will start to cull tasks without developers 17:05 slef thd_: if you have time, you can follow koha-cvs list posts and correct/LART offences 17:04 jcamins I'd help out as best I'm able, after the installer is finished, but I don't know that my help would necessarily be an asset to the effort. 17:04 thd_ an effort needs to be made to control the db flavour specific code to keep it from reappearing 17:03 chris yeah, me too, but if we get it on the map, someone might step up 17:03 slef I'd say I'd help, but I've already other things I want to do during 2.3 17:03 jcamins Well, if you want to make Postgres and MySQL an option, those with more RAM can use Postgres, those with less RAM Mysql, right? 17:03 chris will do 17:02 slef talk to kados, see if you can get it in 17:02 slef It's not on http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.php?id=koha24rmnotes although there are other database comments 17:02 thd_ but both postgres and mysql should be options if nothing is tied to one 17:02 chris and since it was november and it had to go live jan 3 2000 .. that was the solution that stuck :) 17:02 thd_ it seems that postgres may not optimise well with limited ram 17:01 chris but i did manage to speed koha up a lot by throwing mysql at it 17:01 chris and that may have been due to my ineptitude more than postgres 17:01 chris a long time ago 17:00 thd_ did you have speed issues before related to postgres specifically? 17:00 slef ok, thanks for the comments :) 17:00 chris not sure slef 17:00 slef Is it on the roadmap? 17:00 chris anyway, i better get back to work 16:59 chris but its easy to say that :) 16:59 chris i think if we can move to more independence without sacrificing speed then that should be a goal for the next major release 16:58 chris the code makes use of mysqls auto_increment in some places .. but you can do the same with postgres 16:57 chris would be my guess 16:57 chris C4::Biblio 16:56 slef if there is, someone's been adding them again :-/ 16:56 chris but it wouldnt hurt to do an audit and kill whatever there is 16:56 chris i doubt there is any of that anymore 16:56 slef thd_: DBI is only half the struggle. There's still a question of what sql strings you feed it. Until the security update, a lot of bits of koha were doing things like $dbh->do("select * from here where a = '".mysqlquote($foo)."'"); 16:55 chris there should be too many mysqlisms in the code i wrote, but i dont know how much of that is left anymore :) 16:55 chris they have nearly met in the middle now 16:55 jcamins I'd be happy to learn Postgres and help out with that if people want to give me some pointers (and this is something that is going to be done). 16:55 chris mysql has gained features postgres has gained speed 16:55 chris just for speed 16:55 chris ported to mysql in about november 99 16:54 jcamins I don't know. We always used MySQL because of the early Windows port. 16:54 chris yeah, i wrote koha with postgres first 16:54 slef early mysqls were pretty low on features... I still think postgres has more in most ways 16:54 thd_ I had hoped koha was DBI abstracted 16:53 jcamins There was something about MySQL 4.1 being required for some sort of index... Zebra would eliminate that? 16:52 chris i dont think so jcamins .. should be the opposite id be hoping 16:52 chris most of the mysqlism were to try to get the search faster .. which if we move to using zebra as the base, we wont need 16:52 slef jcamins: I can't learn all the world's languages, so it's useful for s.america and asia via gxangalo.com and raporto.info 16:52 jcamins The optimizations that were discussed a couple of weeks ago would strengthen the requirement on MySQL, though, wouldn't they? 16:51 chris its getting less 16:51 slef thd_: I've asked for postgres in the past, but until 2.2 at least, MySQLisms were fairly well ingrained all through koha. 16:50 jcamins Sounds good to me. 16:50 jcamins Yeah. 16:50 slef jcamins: pli 16:49 slef to sum up the plan: study MakeMaker and see if it's possible; split installer into the three stages; leave l10n until later 16:48 jcamins Useful, is it? 16:48 slef learnt it last autumn 16:48 slef jes 16:48 jcamins slef: You know Esperanto? 16:47 slef jcamins: most ways allow fallback to original language (hey, I may decide to write the original in esperanto, just to annoy the latin crowd ;-) ) 16:46 slef thd_: can you find that discussion? 16:46 jcamins Also, I'd think there would be some way to fall-back to English if localization wasn't available? 16:46 jcamins That's true. 16:46 slef rather than having the installer be a Q&A session 16:46 slef I'm not sure this is such a big issue if we can pull off configure/build/install 16:45 thd_ I seem to remeber a discussion advocating perl 5.8 as a minimum for future versions of koha 16:45 jcamins gettext also seems to be backwards-incompatible every other version. 16:45 slef man Locale::Maketext::TPJ13 16:44 slef thd_: gettext is a common tool, but I don't think it's in perl core. Maketext's man page has a rant about gettext. 16:44 slef In perl 5.8, Locale::Maketext is in the core. The installer could use that, but it would make koha need perl 5.8. 16:43 thd_ I do not know the tool, but is gettext a standard tool for command line localisation? 16:43 jcamins Is there any standard for specifying translations in an external file? 16:43 slef I'm not sure that a hash of format strings is the best way of doing it. 16:42 slef They're stored in a two-level hash and {en} is one of the keys, so I think someone intended l10n later 16:42 slef At the moment, the installer reads all its messages from strings set in Install.pm 16:41 jcamins Localization is something that I have no experience whatsoever with. 16:41 slef I've a while doing perl, but koha is a bigger scale than most I've done 16:41 jcamins Great. I'll look as well, although it'll probably take me a while to understand it. Perl is not one of the language I have a lot of experience in. 16:40 slef (unless someone beats me to it) 16:40 slef I'll probably take a look and post any notes to koha-devel 16:40 jcamins Lower the barrier for entry, and reassure the sysadmins who don't like custom scripts. 16:39 slef Probably be more useful for koha developers to learn, and more attractive to potential developers 16:39 jcamins Yeah. It would be great, though, to use a standard installer. 16:38 slef Me neither. One to research. 16:38 jcamins I'm not clear on whether or not the configuration can be done with MakeMaker. The installation of files certainly could be. 16:36 slef oh, I often miss the blindingly obvious 16:36 jcamins Wow that's embarrassing. In my defense, up until recently I primarily used Perl on Windows. ;-) 16:35 slef ; man ExtUtils::MakeMaker 16:34 jcamins Actually, this looks very similar to the way the FreeBSD ports system works. 16:34 jcamins http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-make.html 16:33 slef URL? 16:33 jcamins I found a tutorial on MakeMaker from IBM, just using Google. 16:33 slef CPAN only accepts modules and scripts, not multi-script applications. 16:32 slef me neither... I'm trying to see how apps are packaged for cpan.org and failing to navigate it. 16:32 jcamins Oops. You meant the Perl MakeMaker. 16:31 jcamins I'm not familiar with MakeMaker. 16:31 slef Cool. So, time for an extra question: can MakeMaker do this for us, or is that for C bindings? 16:30 jcamins Yeah, I think that would be about it. 16:30 slef If we have configure/build/install, what does auto-install mean? Does it just become some input to the configure stage? 16:30 jcamins That's a good point. Split it, then? 16:28 slef jcamins: I think I can see other benefits, in that we could be conservative which prerequisites are needed in configure, but use all the toys in build and install 16:27 chris he got busy 16:27 thd_ what happened to steve tonnessen? 16:27 jcamins Hm... I've seen ports which do things both ways. The advantage to splitting it up into multiple scripts is that it would be easier for a developer to find the part that s/he is looking for. The advantage to not splitting it is that the developer is more likely to remember all three stages. 16:27 chris there was a .deb for 1.2 .. steve tonnessen did it 16:26 slef thd_: Debian Developer 16:26 slef would it be better to call ./installer.pl --configure or to have three scripts doing configure, build and install? 16:26 jcamins I'm willing to do the RPM, unless there's someone more qualified. 16:25 thd_ slef: DD? 16:25 slef I don't know. I'd adopt a debian and upload it (I am a DD) 16:25 jcamins http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/sysutils/webmin/ 16:25 thd_ what happened to their maintainers? 16:24 thd_ there once was a Debian package and a Red Hat package 16:24 jcamins Hold on a moment. I'll find it. 16:24 slef jcamins: do you have a URL for webmin's ports makefile? 16:23 slef (wow, zabriskie crashed on near-final corner of Tour de France TTT) 16:23 thd_ everything should utimately be packaged for a particular OS if one has the resources to do so 16:22 jcamins I'd say Webmin qualifies. 16:22 slef preferably something pretty complicated 16:22 jcamins I'm sure. Let me see if I can find an example 16:22 slef Are other perl webapps packaged for freebsd? 16:21 jcamins Yeah, I'd agree. 16:21 slef sure. I mean creating the files with the right contents... they could be copied to /etc in the install 16:20 jcamins Writing files to the system is always part of the "install" phase in the FreeBSD ports system. 16:20 slef actually, it checks dependencies first 16:19 slef jcamins: the main steps in the installation are figuring out the configuration (from httpd.conf and so on), writing the configuration files (= build?) and installing files and database 16:18 thd_ slef: please do 16:17 slef thd_: I'll talk to you about it in 32minutes, if you want. 16:17 jcamins The ports collection is designed around such a configuration (configure/build/install), although, of course, there are ways to get around that, such as eliminating the configure stage. 16:17 thd_ I have not asked about postgres before. I found other questions more pressing. 16:16 jcamins Yes. 16:16 slef jcamins: would it be easier to have a configure/build/install division? 16:16 jcamins (a "port" in this sense is basically a Makefile specifying how to install the files; one of the requirements for getting a port committed is that user intervention not be required at installation) 16:16 slef thd_: support in the installer won't make the rest of koha use it, though. 16:15 jcamins My goal is to create a port that can be a part of the FreeBSD ports collection. 16:15 slef thd_: I think that needs the other teams to agree, too. Postgres support in the installer wouldn't be too hard IMO. 16:15 slef jcamins: what's motivating your improvements? 16:14 thd_ postgres support 16:14 jcamins Yeah. koha/updater 16:13 slef I think updatedatabase might be elsewhere in the tree. 16:13 slef yes 16:13 jcamins Just to check, the most recent versions of all those files ARE the ones in the koha/misc module, right? 16:13 slef So, what do we want from an installer? 16:12 slef Obvious problems are that it doesn't make for easy packaging and it isn't a good example of software engineering (low cohesion and poor coupling) 16:11 slef Finally, there are some .sql files to create the database and updatedatabase which upgrades old koha databases to the current schema. 16:11 slef Then there's install.pl and koha.upgrade (different authors, so different naming styles) which call those functions in an order to do an install or upgrade. 16:10 slef Currently, there's Install.pm containing the functions that do the actual installing, the messages displayed (english only so far) and a few helper routines. 16:09 slef I'll introduce the current situation, then ask where we should go. 16:08 jcamins I think 15 minute each is probably reasonable. 16:07 slef So, shall we aim for 15 minutes for each, or does one need more time? 16:07 jcamins None come to mind. 16:06 slef Any other topics we should cover? 16:06 jcamins Sounds good to me. 16:06 slef I suggested: general structure, auto-install and localisation. 16:06 jcamins This is the first time using xchat, and apparently whatever keys I just hit are not supposed to be hit. 16:06 slef welcome back jcamins. The X closes the window. ;-) 16:06 jcamins Oops. 16:04 slef hah, let's wait for a few moments :-/ 16:04 slef I suggested: general structure, auto-install and localisation. 16:04 slef owen, thd_: jump in if anything occurs 16:03 thd_ I am here but ... 16:02 slef What topics do we want to cover? 16:02 slef so, who's here? slef, jcamins, anyone else? 16:01 slef I just don't understand why we keep the daemon. Maybe zebra will help that? 16:00 jcamins I have most of my experience with Voyager. If something doesn't work right with Voyager, the incredibly expensive service contract takes care of it. ;) 15:59 slef well, I get how the protocol and concept works 15:59 jcamins Oh, that I don't know. I understand from the library's point-of-view. 15:59 slef So, why is it so tricky to get running? ;-) 15:58 jcamins Actually, that's one of the few things I understand. Well, to some extent. 15:57 slef the whole z39.50 side is a mystery to me 15:57 slef hey, I still am :-/ 15:56 jcamins As you know, I'm new to Koha, so I'll be playing catch-up for quite a while, I suspect. 15:56 jcamins Ah. 15:56 slef 2.3 development work 15:55 jcamins A summary of what? 15:55 slef I'm still waiting for a summary to return to me :-/ 15:55 slef would have been better if I'd been able to email the list last week 15:55 slef not yet, but I guess we'll see 15:54 jcamins Did anyone else say they were planning on coming to this meeting? 15:51 slef well, I guess it's an abbreviation really, like laser 15:51 jcamins Presumably someone who's more familiar with Zebra could actually tell you for sure. 15:50 jcamins I believe so. That was my assumption, anyway. 15:50 slef on today's list traffic: what is TCL? Does it mean Tcl? 15:49 jcamins It's going to take me a while to get used to working with people outside my timezone. It's 16:45 in New Jersey. 15:48 slef (it's now 21:45 local time) 15:47 slef no worries... early evenings aren't great for me, really 15:47 jcamins I didn't think I'd be able to make such good time; sorry you had to reschedule to later on my account, and then have me show up early. 15:46 slef cool... good to see you 15:46 jcamins I am. (Jared Camins... although you probably guessed) 15:45 slef Anyone else here for the installer? 15:43 jcamins Hello. 15:42 slef hi all 14:33 owen ...right between "Makes cappuccino" and "cures Athlete's Foot" 14:32 thd_ owen: be sure to add that to the roadmap :] 14:31 owen No, sorry. Maybe in v. 5.0. 14:30 thd_ owen: will it design my templates for me? :) 14:29 thd_ owen: well that is very nice :) 14:29 owen Yes 14:29 thd_ owen: realy, it reads the file system? 14:26 owen No, those are automatically generated 14:23 thd_ Ryanbisd: Of course you would need to add template 'ryan' to the value list that appears on the same system preferences page. 14:20 owen Then switch templates in system preferences 14:20 owen ...to /intranet-tmpl/ryan/en or something unique 14:20 owen The best way to go is to copy and rename the whole directory (e.g. \intranet-tmpl\default\en) 14:19 owen The TMPL files are mostly plain HTML 14:19 Ryanbisd haha 14:19 owen Ryanbisd, you can muck around with templates to your heart's content 14:18 thd_ owen: The Koha Québec map is especially sparsely populated. 14:17 Ryanbisd put in your own logos etc? 14:17 Ryanbisd I take it you can edit the different themes? 13:32 owen We used to have a Canadian contributor, but he hasn't been heard from in a long time 13:21 thd_ What is done in Canadian libraries to bridge the MARC21 or CANMARC divide with UNIMARC? I would think good format interoperability would be very important for libraries there. 12:43 Ryanbisd ahh... 12:37 owen Getting late for folks in France, and still too early for folks in New Zealand 12:34 Ryanbisd its quiet in here now..