Time  Nick      Message
11:35 kados     bye all
11:35 FrancoisL Leaving too - see ya all !
11:35 FrancoisL bye !
11:34 paul      I must leave now. Farewell
11:33 FrancoisL The change should be painful but quick :)
11:33 FrancoisL       <B>Author:</B>Andersen, Hans Christian
11:33 FrancoisL       <B>Title:</B> The Ugly Ducklin
11:33 FrancoisL Given the values "The Ugly Ducklin", "Hans Christian " and "Andersen" for title, first name and surname, respectively, the output would be:
11:33 FrancoisL
11:33 FrancoisL       100/*/h ", $data"
11:33 FrancoisL       100/*/a "<br><B>Author:</B> $data"
11:33 FrancoisL       100/*
11:33 FrancoisL       100
11:33 FrancoisL       245/*/a "<B>Title:</B> $data"
11:33 FrancoisL       245/*
11:33 FrancoisL       245
11:33 FrancoisL       %%format usmarc
11:33 FrancoisL Let's say we want to display the title and author field in an USMARC record. The title is stored in field 245, subfield a and the author name is stored in field 100 where the subfields for surname is a and for first name it is h. This would look something like this in ZAP:
11:32 kados     (also some others like dmoz ;-)
11:32 kados     and usmarc
11:32 kados     rsusmarc
11:32 kados     there's a marcxml
11:32 kados     so you will need to write a zebra.cfg for unimarc
11:31 kados     there is no test/unimarc
11:31 kados     syntax is pretty simple
11:31 kados     if not you can edit zebra.cfg to specify which things to index
11:31 kados     well I'm assuming that test/unimarc/ knows that ;-)
11:30 paul      yes, but in unimarc, title is in 200$a, not in 245, so i'm wondering how zebra can handle that !
11:30 kados     it will index records and automatically start the server
11:30 kados     run test.sh
11:30 kados     edit test/unimarc/zebra.cfg to add any options you need (default ones are fine though)
11:29 kados     move records file to test/unimarc/records
11:29 kados     export records to raw marc
11:29 kados     download, install
11:29 kados     paul: it's easier than you think
11:29 paul      mmm... very bad news...
11:28 kados     paul: but I didn't look too hard
11:28 kados     paul: yea ... I didn't see an easy way for Zebra to parse that
11:28 paul      but that does not matter probably
11:28 paul      note joshua, that it would be unimarc, not usmarc.
11:28 FrancoisL I think size does not matter - provided it's more than 200 K or so...
11:28 kados     also note that the MARC file for 5 million records is 4.5 gig
11:27 kados     right ;-)
11:27 kados     (though 5 mill is quite large)
11:27 FrancoisL (and in... french too !)
11:27 FrancoisL OK I'll ask them tomorrow.
11:27 kados     that would be really great
11:27 kados     if we could get a "super large" data set xxx million records
11:27 kados     paul: right
11:27 paul      I think so.
11:26 paul      (the problem being i'm not a library)
11:26 FrancoisL What CDROM ? Opale ?
11:26 kados     so I'm working on a Yaz wrapper to do the initial query ... shoudl have something later this week
11:26 paul      (as BNF also publish cd that are free for libraries)
11:26 paul      but, francoisL, could you request SAN to see if they have a CDROM ?
11:26 kados     FrancoisL: right
11:26 FrancoisL Step 2 is staightforward MySQL...
11:26 paul      I don't think so.
11:26 kados     paul: is there some way to scrape it?
11:26 paul      as slow as LoC in fact ;-)
11:26 kados     paul: can we download ALL the records?
11:26 kados     step 2 is actually quite fast
11:26 paul      kados : the z3950 server of BNF is public, needs no authentification, but can be slow.
11:25 kados     I plan to use Zebra for step 1
11:25 kados     second, get item info for all items attached to those biblios
11:25 kados     first, find biblio numbers
11:25 kados     FrancoisL: exactly
11:25 kados     searching currently is broken into two parts
11:25 FrancoisL Sounds like a good idea as it's faster and... does not rely on Marc_words (?)
11:24 paul      in fact, francoisL, the idea is to use this server for searching in koha, instead of internal search.
11:24 kados     FrancoisL: we could do a 'proof of concept' Koha install for them ;-)
11:24 kados     FrancoisL: I wonder if we could get access to the MARC records in LOC or BnF
11:23 FrancoisL There's a public Z3950 server in BnF (hey, Paul !)
11:23 FrancoisL Can you wire the library of congress + French BnF ? Must be more than xxx mill. !
11:23 kados     FrancoisL: so 5 Million is quite a few more ;-)
11:22 kados     FrancoisL: currently, NPL has 150K biblios
11:22 kados     FrancoisL: then we can really test the speed ;-)
11:22 kados     FrancoisL: I'm hoping to have the 5Million records working in the next few days
11:22 FrancoisL That's good news for the SANe.
11:22 kados     FrancoisL: definitely
11:22 kados     FrancoisL: server magic that is -- it's Zebra
11:22 FrancoisL kados: will it make it into next release ?
11:21 kados     FrancoisL: actually, it's the engine doing the Z39.50 magic that's fast.
11:21 paul      right.
11:21 kados     FrancoisL: yep ... I'm working on a LibLime database that's 5 million items too
11:21 FrancoisL Zap! is fazt!
11:17 FrancoisL kudos to kados...
11:17 kados     FrancoisL: yep
11:17 FrancoisL Kool ! Is it through a z3950 client ?
11:16 kados     (only the Nelsonville checkbox is working atm)
11:16 kados     it's very fast
11:16 kados     http://liblime.com/zap/advanced.html
11:16 kados     FrancoisL: have you seen the new searching 'proof of concept'?
11:16 FrancoisL won't !
11:15 kados     things are well here
11:15 paul      don't forget to add me to the mail.
11:15 kados     I'll look forward to reading it ;-)
11:15 kados     great!
11:15 FrancoisL I'll be with the SAN tomorrow to list all functions we'll program - 'll keep you posted.
11:15 FrancoisL howdy, Joshua ! How's life ?
11:14 kados     FrancoisL: howdy!
10:10 kados     chris would probably have some suggestions
10:09 kados     hdl: not sure ... I've never done a firefox extension
10:03 hdl       kados : would it be developped in XUL ?
09:57 kados     we could also integrate search APIs from other collections/ILSes
09:56 kados     images
09:56 kados     web urls (so a bookmarks section)
09:56 kados     where you could store lots of different links -- search results being only one type
09:56 kados     paul: it'd be nice if we could put together a "Koha Research Toolbar"
09:39 owen      I'll be here all day
09:38 paul      will you stay around here ?
09:37 owen      Hi paul
09:37 paul      'morning owen.
09:17 slef      hey, that log doesn't have any rel_2_2 as far as I can tell
09:15 paul      (even if it should become only a little traffic)
09:15 paul      slef : but it's interesting to know what happends on rel_2_2
09:14 slef      paul: I'll try to work the options out to avoid rel_2_2
08:54 paul      (to devel & translate lists)
08:54 kados     paul: but let owen catch up
08:54 paul      ok, i announce 2.2.3 for next monday.
08:54 kados     realease early and often ;-)
08:54 paul      (after a translating time)
08:54 kados     IMO
08:54 kados     go ahead
08:53 paul      i think that I should release 2.2.3
08:53 paul      what is your opinion about next bugsquashing : should I wait or not ?
08:53 kados     great!
08:53 kados     paul: hopefully we'll get feedback by next week
08:53 paul      2.2.3 is really close to be "releasable"
08:53 kados     paul: :-)
08:51 paul      so, the meeting will be very interesting ;-)
08:51 paul      & at least 2 or 3 should be fixed already
08:51 paul      s/with/without/
08:50 paul      none of them can be fixed with more informations or strategic chat.
08:50 paul      kados : i've parsed the 20 first bugs from your previous tinyurl
08:11 paul      (but could be fun anyway)
08:11 paul      be careful not to be ranked as spammer by his spamassassin...
08:10 kados     as a joke ;-)
08:07 paul      no news. hélas.
08:07 kados     paul: any news from Emiliano? If not I'll write him another email ;-)
08:01 paul      statistics & reports
08:01 kados     and whats the description for this component?
08:01 paul      hdl
08:01 kados     stats => paul ?
08:01 kados     I'll ask katipo about that
08:00 kados     right
07:59 paul      & not sure acquisition.simple still means something.
07:59 paul      stats maybe ?
07:58 kados     paul: any new categories to add?
07:58 kados     I'll put chris
07:57 kados     for version 2.0
07:57 kados     only three
07:56 kados     hehe good question
07:55 paul      (are there bugs about authentication in fact ?)
07:55 paul      auth => dunno (probably not me)
07:55 paul      acquisition => chris
07:55 paul      so parameters => me
07:55 kados     hmmm, I don't think so
07:55 paul      is it possible to have an owner by version ?
07:54 kados     paul: who should have simple acquisitions, authentication, and parameters?
07:52 kados     paul: tab ;-)
07:51 paul      I know this service. just wanted to know if you had a specific tool to write them so quickly or if you had a tab always open on this page.
07:50 kados     paul: I'll do it as soon as I"m done with this email
07:50 kados     paul: I can do that now (chris gave me bugzilla superpowers ;-))
07:50 kados     paul: go to tinyurl.com ;-)
07:49 paul      how do you do to write tinyurl so quickly ?
07:48 paul      we should really update some bugzilla parameters...
07:48 paul      some still assigned to steve tonnesen...
07:47 kados     thanks
07:47 kados     great ...
07:47 paul      right.
07:47 kados     paul: it should return bugzilla with 68 bugs listed by order of importance
07:47 paul      yes and ?
07:47 kados     paul: can you test this URL ? http://tinyurl.com/as66z
07:47 kados     cool
07:46 slef      in fact looks fine
07:46 slef      Tuesday 14 ok.
07:46 slef      kados: I'm out from 11am Friday until Sunday. Might be out Thursday lunchtime.
07:40 kados     cool
07:40 Genji     ah. good. ya. ill take it.
07:40 kados     Genji: no... next week ;-)
07:40 kados     slef: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 at 15:00 UTC work for a Bugsquash meeting?
07:39 Genji     Wha, that in 3 hours?
07:38 kados     Genji: http://tinyurl.com/779cy
07:38 Genji     i need a specific time
07:38 kados     slef: ?
07:38 hdl       ok for me...
07:38 Genji     Err.. except 5:30pm to 10pm Wensday and friday. Japanese drumming.
07:37 kados     ok ... how about hdl?
07:37 paul      ok for me, after 15GMT, because i have to get my 1st son at school exit.
07:37 kados     in your time: http://tinyurl.com/asl8y
07:37 Genji     anytime, anyday is okay.
07:37 kados     how about next tuesday?
07:37 kados     ahh ... right
07:36 paul      (i'll be on Perl conference, see mail on koha-devel)
07:36 paul      morning for me could be OK, but not evening.
07:36 kados     paul: how about friday?
07:36 paul      (neither hdl)
07:36 paul      i won't be here.
07:35 kados     paul, slef, hdl, Genji can I schedule the next bugsquashing meeting for Thursday June 9th at 14:00 UTC(GMT): in your time: http://tinyurl.com/dloaw
07:27 kados     I'll look into askjeeves as well
07:27 kados     it's not finished yet (broken right now)
07:27 kados     paul: I did a 'answers.com'
07:27 kados     paul: that would be really easy
07:22 paul      http://sp.ask.com/docs/mj/1.1/tour_intro.html
07:22 paul      kados : did you see askjeeves extended features. Could be really nice in an OPAC
07:18 kados     gotcha
07:17 slef      planet has 2 big problems: it doesn't handle incoming items cleanly (which leads to planet-spam whenever someone updates a blosxom install) and it's in python
07:17 kados     :-)
07:17 slef      or maybe this week if stuff goes well
07:16 slef      I will work on the underlying libraries for planet koha probably next week, though.
07:16 slef      :)
07:16 slef      kados: I don't use planet itself and you should use 1999's xhtml by now.
07:12 paul      because in this case, you have biblios & authorities coming from the same source.
07:12 paul      so, here in France, everybody want Rameau, but nobody uses it ;-) except when you get your biblio from BNF too
07:11 paul      and not specialized enough for a specialized library.
07:11 paul      even there, a thesaurus like Rameau is far far too wide for a public library.
07:11 paul      let speak about subject.
07:11 paul      but let's ignore personal names, that are not heavily used.
07:10 paul      even for a library that uses Rameau, the complete rameau thesaurus is unuseable : 420 000 entries just for personal names.
07:09 kados     (not nice for everyone ;-))
07:09 paul      yes but no.
07:09 kados     it would be really nice if we preloaded some standard 'common' authoritiy list and had it auto-update
07:09 paul      In france, you can get authorities from BNF, Rameau.
07:09 paul      most libraries uses a common authority list.
07:08 paul      some very specialised libraries have a specific authority list. like CMI (mathematics, that uses AMS thesaurus)
07:08 kados     ahh
07:08 kados     (I don't understand the process since NPL doesn't use authorities)
07:08 paul      both in fact ;-)
07:08 paul      there are possibilities to do such things.
07:08 kados     (or are authorities usually defined by the library)
07:08 kados     (so authorities would come 'pre-loaded' in Koha?
07:07 kados     can't we import authorities from the library of congress for free (or the bibliotech de france)?
07:07 paul      so libraries without authorities should be happy as well as others.
07:06 paul      note that it searchs in 2 parts : authorities and existing values.
07:06 kados     thanks
07:06 kados     right
07:05 paul      (s/surname/firstname/)
07:05 paul      (what is the surname of Hugo, the author i'm looking for... let me see what exists in this library about hugo...)
07:04 paul      should be an help for user not knowing exactly how to write what he is looking for
07:04 paul      the search is on authorities & on existing values in biblio titles / authors / subjects.
07:03 hdl       kados : dictionary search allows ppl to search among all authorities even rejected forms.
06:25 kados     here's a planet installation that seems able to handle my html: http://curtis.med.yale.edu/code4lib/
06:24 kados     slef about?
06:07 kados     paul good afternoon ;-)
06:07 kados     paul: what does the dictionary search do?
04:04 chris     heh
04:04 chris     gonna have to schedule a time to do an upgrade for our servers, .. and reinstall a bunch of perl modules
04:03 chris     yep, saw that :)
04:03 slef      new debian 3.1 out now
03:51 chris     :)
03:51 paul      some code from argentina & my hapiness would be complete !
03:50 chris     its good to see
03:50 chris     there seems to be plenty of koha work on around the world at the moment
03:49 chris     dynix -> xml -> koha
03:48 chris     right
03:48 paul      (GMT+12 vs GMT+2)
03:48 paul      right. We are in summer time. So there is only 10hours between us.
03:48 chris     im watching some tv before bed
03:48 chris     its only 8.48pm
03:47 paul      chris is not sleeping yet ?
03:47 chris     evening
02:18 osmoze    hi hdl :)
02:16 hdl       hi
19:53 slef      MuggingWare
19:51 chris     exactly
19:51 kados     it's their data but they can't get to it
19:51 kados     it's pretty sad how many librarians don't realize it's setup that way
19:51 chris     you can only get away with that in software
19:50 kados     yep
19:50 chris     crippleware
19:50 chris     yeah
19:50 kados     it's broken ... you pay them $2K and they change a line in the code somewhere and whalla it works ;-)
19:50 kados     ahh ... right ... that's what spydus does
19:49 chris     if you pay someone to set it up for you
19:49 chris     it does
19:49 kados     I'm surprised it doesn't export to MARC
19:49 kados     ahh
19:49 chris     but universe the underlying database can be made to
19:48 chris     nope
19:48 kados     dynix exports in xml eh?
19:48 kados     hehe
19:48 chris     it doesnt get much easier to parse than that
19:48 chris       <BARCODE2_MV BARCODE2 = "31506000153634"/>
19:48 chris       <PUBLISHER_MV/>
19:48 chris       <AUTHOR_MV AUTHOR = "BAKER, Heretaunga Pat"/>
19:48 chris       <TITLE_MV TITLE = "Behind the tattooed face"/>
19:48 chris     <BIB _ID = "15009">
19:48 chris     <ROOT>
19:46 kados     sweet
19:46 chris     thanks to good IBM documentation and a smart local ex system librarian
19:46 chris     i now have an xml file of the bibliographical data for the new library we are doing an install for
19:44 chris     we dont need to do the daemonising etc either
19:44 kados     i'm gonna really look closely at zap as well
19:44 chris     its pretty much the base for it
19:44 kados     ok
19:44 chris     take a look at teh z3950 client
19:44 kados     well ... dinner first ;-)
19:43 kados     yep
19:43 chris     Net::z3950
19:43 kados     I'm gonna try to get to that tonight
19:43 chris     yep
19:43 kados     we just need a yaz wrapper to grab the biblionumbers
19:43 chris     true
19:43 kados     it already does the stuff we need it to do
19:43 chris     shouldnt be to hard to do
19:43 kados     we shouldn't even need to change our item-query section at all
19:43 chris     and then return only the ones with items that match our criteria
19:42 chris     so you get a bunch of biblionumbers
19:42 kados     it's the initial marc_word that's so slow
19:42 chris     yep
19:42 kados     but that part of the search (now) is really fast
19:42 kados     yep
19:42 chris     it changes a lot
19:42 kados     and returning non-lost items is pretty easy too since we do the items query after we do thte marc query
19:42 chris     u want to be talking to the real db for item stuff
19:42 chris     hhmmm
19:42 kados     actually, searching by branch could just be a seperate index
19:41 chris     (ie we want to be able to search by branch, only return itmes that arent lost to the opac etc)
19:41 kados     yep
19:41 chris     but it still should be faster overall i think
19:41 kados     right
19:41 chris     by adding other stuff
19:40 chris     unfortunately now we need to slow it down some
19:40 chris     thats fast
19:40 chris     right
19:40 kados     zap is a web-based z39.50 client
19:40 kados     http://liblime.com/zap/try.html
19:40 kados     here's the simple:
19:39 kados     that's the advanced page
19:39 kados     http://liblime.com/zap/advanced.html
19:39 chris     yep, pretty busy though, whats up?
19:39 kados     what's up?
19:39 owen      hey
19:39 kados     hey owen
19:38 kados     chris around?
19:37 kados     it'd be nice to have openurl, and link resolution integrated into Koha
19:36 kados     http://www.theresearcher.ca/index.html
19:36 kados     http://olinks.sourceforge.net/
16:54 owen      bye rach ;)
16:48 rach      hi
16:48 owen      hi rach
15:36 slef      oh wait
15:35 slef      u-umlaut is 2-bytes in utf8 IIRC
15:33 kados     not sure why ... I'll have to look into it
15:33 kados     right
15:33 sanspach  and M!!chen instead of M!nchen
15:33 sanspach  instead of D!rrenmatt for D\:urrenmatt it is D!!renmatt (where ! is bad char)
15:31 sanspach  odd the way the chars are corrupted, though--problem for both composite character *and* next one
15:30 kados     right
15:30 sanspach  I got mix of Chinese and the square boxes (which usually means Unicode char. not displayable w/installed fonts)
15:30 kados     I think utf8 all the way for display
15:30 kados     I'll have to figure out what to do with different charsets
15:29 kados     they are displaying as ? for me
15:29 kados     interesting
15:28 kados     right
15:28 sanspach  available via LC's gateway under Indiana University for useful side-by-side compare
15:28 sanspach  searching es33.uits.indiana.edu:2200/Unicorn for author=durrenmatt retrieves great examples
15:27 kados     sanspach: could you give me an example?
15:27 kados     something like this with an integrated MARC editor will probably be a good solution for catalogers
15:26 kados     but here you can request from multiple sources and get results back
15:26 kados     (still just a proof of concept)
15:26 kados     http://liblime.com/zap/advanced.html
15:26 kados     here's an advanced query page:
15:20 sanspach  something odd with charset translation though--standard european diacritics are displaying as Chinese characters!
15:16 kados     we'll see how it fares on the big dataset as soon as I resolve my path problems
15:15 kados     it's a text based record format
15:15 owen      Couldn't be much faster
15:15 owen      What's SUTRS?
15:15 kados     heh xml does though
15:15 kados     right
15:15 owen      SUTRS works, but not HTML
15:14 kados     huh ... maybe not
15:14 kados     I guess you have to use USMARC to get results
15:13 kados     (under 'server')
15:13 kados     66.213.78.76:9999/VOYAGER
15:13 kados     but you can search NPLs data using the following setting:
15:13 kados     Still having probs with that large dataset so the search on the localhost doesn't work
15:12 kados     http://liblime.com/zap/try.html
15:12 kados     s/server/client/
15:12 kados     sweet ... I've got a zap web-based Z39.50 server working:
14:57 kados     slef: it's something I've been meaning to do but didn't get around to
14:57 kados     slef: thanks for the summary!
14:55 paul      slef : would be great.
14:05 slef      I wonder if I can do those weekly :-/
13:51 pate      yeah, i did
12:30 slef      the summary one
12:30 slef      anyone like that email?