Time Nick Message 12:00 slef kados: you don't like XML? 12:01 kados slef: why do you say that? 12:01 slef well, really simple syndication uses only a subset of XML 12:01 slef (really simple syndication = rss 2) 12:01 slef (RDF Site Summary = rss 1) 12:01 slef (related but different things) 12:02 slef rss 1 descends from my netscape and RDF into XML with namespaces and modules and ah-hoo ah-ha 12:02 kados right ... ok ... so then my rss is actually rss 1 12:02 kados it's RDF 12:02 slef rss 2 descends from scriptingnews and microsoft channel description format into dave winer's world 12:03 kados rdf:RDF xml:lang="en" 12:03 slef what isn't it catching for you? 12:04 kados here's my feed: 12:04 kados http://kados.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/blog/koha/index.rss 12:04 kados the first item 12:04 kados "Release Manager for Koha 2.4" 12:04 kados isn't showing up 12:05 slef It is, but it's not on the front page 12:05 kados and it looks like instead of ordering them by date, it's ordering by person 12:05 slef no, it orders them by appearance 12:05 kados by appearance? 12:05 slef each run, it does an ordered set calculation... 1mo and I'll find the note 12:06 kados I don't see a link to see an archive anywhere either 12:06 slef line below header, "Archive" 12:06 slef not best place for it, but it's bodged 12:07 slef aggregate_i+1 = (blogs / aggregate_i) u (aggregate_i n blogs) 12:08 slef where _ is a subscript, / is difference, u is ordered union with left first and n is intersection that preserves order 12:08 slef basically, when I moved from your full feed to your old feed, a load of old posts appeared in "blogs" in that calculation, so they went on the front 12:08 slef (as they weren't in aggregate_i, they didn't get differenced out) 12:09 slef over time, it'll settle down 12:09 slef biab 12:35 shaun do we currently consider ourselves to be the "leading open source integrated library system"? 12:36 kados yes 12:36 kados until PINES finishes Evergreen ;-) 12:36 kados then they'll have about 250 more sites than us ;-) 12:37 kados I think we've been branding ourselves as 'the first open source ILS' 12:37 kados (or open-source ILS if you want to get gramatical) 12:39 shaun I'm looking for a snazzy tagline to accompany the next release, e.g. "The new version of the award-winning open source library system..." 12:40 owen Koha 2.4: No fatal accidents since 1987! 12:41 shaun heh 12:41 shaun owen, what have you been on these past few days? 12:52 kados hehe 13:01 kados Website/Interface Design Meeting in about an hour 13:06 shaun counting down... damn, my clock is wrong 13:06 slef moo 13:25 kados Here's the meeting agenda (I'd like to use the wiki for agenda and meeting notes from now on): 13:25 kados http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koha_wiki/index.php?page=AgendAndNotes05may26 13:25 kados please add anything you'd like to have discussed 13:25 kados I need a volunteer to take notes 13:25 owen I nominate logbot. 13:25 kados hehe 13:30 kados T minus 30 minutes till the Website / Interface Design Meeting 13:45 kados T minus 15 minutes till the Website / Interface Design Meeting 13:45 owen The anticipation is unbearable!!!1 13:55 kados T minus 05 minutes till the Website / Interface Design Meeting 13:55 kados (grab snacks, coffee, etc ;-)) 13:55 owen (lock the library doors, unplug the phone) 13:57 owen (put on some mood music, light some candles... whoops wrong list) 13:58 shaun owen, what is that white powder you are holding? 13:59 russter hi there 14:00 kados OK ... welcome to the first Website/ Interface Design Focus Group Meeting 14:00 shaun morning russ ;-) 14:00 kados let's start with a roll call 14:00 kados shout out if you're here ;-) 14:01 kados Here's the agenda: 14:01 kados http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koha_wiki/index.php?page=AgendAndNotes05may26 14:01 russter russ is here 14:01 kados Anyone have anything to add to the agenda or any questions about it? 14:03 owen should we wait for rach? 14:03 Ben hi 14:03 shaun yes, i think we should wait for rach 14:03 kados yep ... let's give rach a couple of minutes 14:03 shaun russ, do you know where she is? 14:03 russter two secs 14:04 russter i'll give her a call 14:05 Ben has anyone seen shaun's website design? it proverbially rocks 14:05 Ben not finished yet, but still great 14:05 Ben http://dev.shaunevans.co.uk/koha/index.html 14:05 rach thanks for hte call :-_ 14:05 kados morning rach ;-) 14:05 owen Ben, I thought it was a surprise! ;) 14:06 kados ok ... so any questions about the agenda/things to add? 14:06 Ben was it? 14:06 Ben oh well. 14:06 kados welcome LTjake 14:06 kados we're just getting started 14:06 LTjake howdy. 14:07 kados Item one: Koha Website 14:08 shaun well done, ben, you ruined the surprise thing... 14:08 Ben no-one told me it was going to be a surprise. 14:08 kados so first off, what is koha.org and how can we ensure that it's professional enough for libraries while still a good resoure for developers? 14:08 shaun ben: never mind, it's not finished... I'd just as well share my work 14:09 Ben uchh. 14:09 kados IMO Rus's email hit the nail on the head 14:09 owen Yeah, recap 14:10 russter allright 14:10 shaun I think koha.org should be the advertising site - developers.koha.org and blogs.koha.org are kept separate, but closely linked to the main site. 14:11 Ben brb 14:11 russter i think it is important that we keep the brocuherware side of things 14:11 shaun i read that originally as Ben_drunk... misinterpretation of central letters :/ 14:12 russter and that this side of the site appeals to those in libraries making decisions about library systems 14:12 owen I think it would be good to put case studies right up front--highlight the examples of Koha in production 14:12 russter sure - i think that is what they are looking for 14:12 shaun yes, that's a good idea - but something more than Horowhuena (can't spell) and NPL 14:13 Ben good idea. 14:13 russter yep, so building a frame work that can adapt so that we can add more case studies in is a good idea 14:13 owen We'll put your library there too, shaun, as soon as it's ready ;) 14:13 Ben but we do need more than those two, yes 14:14 russter yep but i think this is all going to get down to content 14:14 rach hmm - case studes are quite "supplier 14:14 rach there is a small tension between the koha.org site and the sites of companies who offer services around koha 14:14 kados right, like liblime.com 14:14 Ben owen, don't hold your breath... our fascist IT teacher has a medical allergy to open-source, and the librarian is hopelessly dependant on Softlink produce.. it'll take a lot to get them using it 14:14 rach katipo/liblime being the obvious ones 14:15 owen True...and LibLime (for example) will want to hang on to their own success stories 14:15 rach case studes are "how we -katipo/liblime- can help you make your library rock 14:15 rach so we need to manage that realationship 14:15 Ben em.. case studies are past examples of how others have used koha to make their libraries rock 14:15 rach and imo, keep koha.org as vendor neutral as possible 14:15 shaun ben: we are stepping over that - it's the website that attracts. 14:16 rach so that we can encourage more vendors to the project as well 14:16 kados I agree 14:16 owen So how do you express the idea that Koha is being used out in the real world? 14:16 Ben good idea. 14:16 kados it's going to be challanging to do that 14:17 rach yes - so using case studies as an example.... 14:17 rach linking back out to katipo or liblime could work 14:17 rach if they have them 14:17 Ben can we have fictional case studies? 14:18 shaun hell, no. 14:18 owen No 14:18 Ben I mean, like microsoft do.. 14:18 shaun we are NOT MICROSOFT 14:18 russter it would be nice to get those who have set up koha in house 14:18 russter to contribute case studies 14:18 rach yep - people who have diy'd 14:18 kados yep like NPL 14:18 russter yep 14:18 Ben I second that. 14:18 shaun and also say how easy it is to give back to the community 14:19 kados hehe 14:20 rach put them with your moon shares 14:20 Ben I meant, M$ has things like 'find out how business A could bugger up their enterprise with M$ Enterprice' 14:20 kados so we need to highlight options: libraries can DYI or hire someone to support them 14:20 Ben not pretending to be true, hypothetical 14:20 owen Has everyone taken a look at the proposed site map? 14:20 Ben url? 14:20 owen http://www.koha.org/koha-sitemap-draft-may05.gif 14:21 owen Meeting agenda URL, if you haven't seen it: http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koha_wiki/index.php?page=AgendAndNotes05may26 14:21 shaun in my report to DHSB, I have focused on how we/I believe, "why should somebody pay for software that everybody can benefit from and influence?" 14:21 Ben much better than the other one. 14:22 Ben (DHSB being devonport high school, boys) 14:22 kados I'd like to see the Showcase section include links to katipo/liblme demos rather than an 'official' koha demo 14:22 kados because probably, features are available in those demos a version ahead of the official Koha stable release 14:23 shaun hmm, I was discussing with ben before how it would be useful to have a opensourcecms.com style refreshing each hour - getting all the content back 14:23 russter that could be useful for showing different setups 14:23 Ben were you? 14:23 Ben oh, yes. 14:23 shaun yes. 14:23 kados yep ... and it makes sense from a busines perspective 14:24 Ben gah.. 3 hours to go for my photoshop download 14:24 rach yep - do we need to show what they would actually get if they download it themselves today? 14:24 kados I don't have as much incentive to keep up the 'official' koha demos as I do my liblime demos 14:24 shaun ben: AAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR 14:24 kados that also encourages some competition among designs ;-) 14:25 russter i think we could do both 14:25 rach yep 14:25 kados right ... it's just that in the past, the default koha demos aren't as impressive as customized demos 14:25 shaun the demos of liblime and katipo could demonstrate how the company provides the product, while the official ones show the product itself. 14:26 russter true, but we want to be straight up and show people what they will getif they download it them selves 14:26 Ben yes, but that is because <rude>the preinstalled style is repulsive, which is why everyone customises it</rude> 14:26 russter if we dont do a std online demo 14:26 russter the perhaps we put up screen shots 14:26 shaun ben: but we have the solution to that, don't we? 14:27 russter but it will go to credibility 14:27 owen Hold that thought for later in the meeting, shaun 14:27 Ben shaun, <emperor>indeed</emperor>. 14:27 rach the other alternative is that you think you're downloading something that looks purdy, and you get the green machine :-) 14:27 shaun hehe 14:27 kados :-) 14:27 Ben ;p; 14:27 Ben doh 14:27 Ben lol 14:27 shaun owen and ben, want to share some of that stuff? 14:28 Ben which stuff? 14:28 shaun ben: the stuff you are smoking. 14:28 kados ok ... moving along 14:29 kados anything else on the proposed site map? 14:29 Ben shut up, shaun 14:29 russter i tried to keep the number of sections down 14:29 russter do that the main nav is simple 14:30 kados yep ... I really like the layout 14:30 rach I was wondering wether features should go accross to showcase 14:30 Ben kados, it's great. however, we need to have a good structure for nav.. obviously there can be no 3-level-deep tabs 14:30 kados er ... map ;-) 14:30 shaun ben: there is more to life than tabs. 14:30 Ben that's my point. 14:30 rach and wether supporting and contributing to the community? 14:30 kados there are plenty of ways to handle three levels 14:31 russter i had a look round at some other os sites 14:31 kados we handle the layout _after_ the site map 14:31 kados russter: more than the ones you mentioned in your email? 14:31 russter and the seems to be a bit of a theme 14:32 russter yep - the other sites werent as pretty :-) 14:32 kados :-) 14:32 kados OK ... anything else on the site map? 14:32 Genji morning all. 14:32 kados hey Genji ... welcome 14:33 kados http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koha_wiki/index.php?page=AgendAndNotes05may26 14:33 kados agenda ... we're on item 1 still 14:33 russter rach : i think we may need to do some wireframes 14:33 kados any resources we should link to from the koha.org site? 14:33 owen How much of that map already exists? 14:33 kados I'm thinking maybe presentations folks have done on KOha 14:33 kados in fact, it might be nice to have a link to 'events' where folks will be showcasing Koha 14:33 Genji ack, can't believe i forgot about the meeting. 14:34 russter so that we can do some paper prototyping to see where people expect the features to be etc 14:34 rach yep that's a good idea russ, and yep nice one on the events :-) 14:34 kados maybe general open source case studies? 14:35 kados something like: 14:35 kados http://liblime.com/c/opensource.html 14:35 russter owen that is a good idea 14:35 russter i should have marked which pages are exisitng and what would be new content 14:36 kados resources, resources ... any more? 14:36 kados Blogs? slef's been working up a blog agrogator 14:36 rach that is a great idea 14:36 kados I don't have the link handy ... owen do you? 14:37 owen http://www.otherwayup.org.uk/planets/koha/ 14:37 kados right ... still in its early stages but a good start 14:38 kados OK ... anything else on item 1? 14:38 kados going once ... 14:38 shaun yes, lots 14:38 owen Yeah, hold up. 14:38 shaun sorry, i was being distracted 14:38 owen How to proceed? 14:38 owen What's next? 14:39 shaun http://dev.shaunevans.co.uk/koha/index.html - hasn't been talked about yet 14:39 kados looks good so far shaun 14:39 shaun ben, it's crippled 14:39 Ben whoop de doo. 14:39 russter i'll have a chat with rach abuot the site map 14:39 shaun i'm more awaiting rach' and russ's comment 14:39 Ben still great. 14:40 russter and i'll update it 14:40 kados russter: ok ... sounds good 14:40 kados we'll need to begin writing text as well 14:40 russter cool 14:40 rach oh sorry shaun, 14:40 kados should we do text writing on the wiki? 14:40 russter i can do a content delivery schedule as well so we can divvy up that job 14:41 rach it looks good :-) but I think you need to see the rest of the stuff to go on the page :-) 14:41 shaun yeh... the rest of the stuff would be a great addition... 14:41 russter that leads right into our next phase of doing a design 14:42 russter i can do up some wireframes for the homepage 14:42 rach so if russ does the wireframe (plain drawing) it will be much use to you 14:42 kados gool 14:42 kados cool even ;-) 14:42 shaun I would like to take that upon myself - I have the wireframes, but I haven't scanned them/drawn them up 14:42 russter cool how about we both do it 14:43 russter we can probably bounce ideas off each other shaun 14:43 kados so ... wireframe, shaun will continue to code away, we'll get a content delivery schedule to divvy up the job: Shaun and Russ will work together on that 14:43 shaun ok - I'll scan and send mine first, see what you think about it - I have blueprints for the hp and content pages 14:43 rach sounds like a good plan shaun 14:43 russter sweet 14:43 kados are we ready to move on? 14:43 russter i think so 14:43 shaun blogs. 14:43 kados Item 2: Koha Interfaces 14:44 shaun sorry, kados 14:44 kados shaun: already covered that I think 14:44 kados we're doing the agrogated blog thingy 14:44 kados that slef is working on 14:44 kados do you have something else to add? 14:44 shaun I still wanted to kill off the other point - I would like to contribute, but I have no intention of setting up my own blog - see earlier discussion 14:45 rach can you contribute to someone elses blog? does it work like that? 14:45 shaun I meant to a communal koha blog 14:45 kados ok ... so you're voting for an official Koha blog that folks can use to write sutff down 14:45 kados really, I think we can have it both ways 14:45 shaun a vote! excellent idea ;-) 14:46 kados we can just install blosxom on the Koha server and setup a way for folks to write things on it 14:46 owen I vote we go the aggregator route right now, and add other functionality later 14:46 kados I'll second that 14:46 indradg ditto 14:46 russter yep - if we try to take on too much, we wont get anything done 14:46 shaun 1) we use blogs.koha.org, and each developer can post. editorial control is in the hands of katipo, or... 14:47 russter it is a website, we can add stuff in later on 14:47 shaun 2) developers who want blogs maintain their own and rss is aggregated 14:48 kados it might even be possible to use your sourceforge account to maintain a blog shaun 14:48 kados ok we're moving on 14:48 shaun shall we vote? I think we should finish off discussing this particular topic today 14:49 owen I thought we did vote ;) 14:49 kados yea it's settled ... we're doing both but starting with the agrogated blog thingy 14:49 kados 2. Koha Interfaces 14:49 shaun great 14:50 Ben *silence* 14:50 kados So we've got a flawed template design process now 14:50 kados where programmers are designing the templates 14:50 kados and the look pretty bad ;-) 14:50 Ben they look abysmal. 14:50 kados in addition to the looks we need to account for: 14:50 kados (in no particular order) colors, logos, layout,standards compliance, usability, beauty, accessability(screen readers, PDAs, etc.), translations. 14:51 Ben show 'em your templates, shaun 14:51 shaun i'm not going to use those templates today - I want to have the whole team discussing the whole project's template stuff 14:52 kados I think we need two sets of templates: programmer templates, which are stripped-down versions, and an official set of tempaltes that accounts for everything I mentioned above 14:52 Ben ok 14:52 rach One of the things that we (katipo) assumed, was that each library would/should adjust the templates to meet their own design/look needs 14:52 kados I also wonder if our templating system is too difficult to maintain 14:52 shaun kados: i agree with that 14:52 kados hi Irma ... welcome 14:52 Ben rach, true 14:53 kados our agenda is here: 14:53 kados http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koha_wiki/index.php?page=AgendAndNotes05may26 14:53 Irma hi there all 14:53 Ben kados, I don't think it is 14:53 kados we're on item 2: Koha Interfaces 14:53 rach and that for koha to "work" for different languages, those libraries may need to actually change where things are in relation to each other 14:53 owen templating system is a pain, but I don't see an easy alternative. 14:54 kados that makes sense 14:54 rach which is why we've gone for the sort of templating system we have 14:54 shaun HTML::Template is fine, imo - tricky, but fine 14:54 rach what has got away on us is that the actual base design is a lot more complicated (and thus ugly) than we intended 14:54 rach yep - we do use kea with html::template for our koha installs 14:55 Ben rach, well, shaun (and I) are redesigning the templates, more or less from scratch 14:55 kados interesting 14:55 Genji Using Kea as the actual editing software? sounds interesting. 14:55 rach so when we're editing html::template files it's in kea 14:55 Ben and I think we've made a load of progress 14:55 kados nice ... well that'd be a great front-end for Koha's templating system 14:55 rach sounds good ben 14:56 kados one issue that we need to focus on is 'usability' 14:56 Genji Eh, but currently, Kea is not opensource? 14:56 Ben kados, we're doing usability.. 14:56 rach no - due mostly to lack of application on our part 14:56 rach we haven't got it ready for being OS'd 14:57 Ben to give an impression of the attention to detail we've made, we argued for twenty minutes over the psychological effects of increasing a border by 1px 14:57 kados what I mean my 'usability' is that our templates be designed for ease of use by librarians 14:57 Genji what processes does code need to go through, to make code ready for OS? 14:57 Ben eventually, we left it like it was, but darkened the colour 14:57 shaun ben: i was there for clare, not you. :D 14:58 kados I believe that NPL's templates (with some color changes) represent the most usable templates created thusfar 14:58 Ben despite shaun's love-life, we are still paying lots of attention to usability 14:58 kados right ... but keep in mind that Owen is actually a librarian 14:58 kados as well as an interface designer 14:59 Ben so were shaun and I 14:59 kados and we've got about 50 librarians complaining constantnly about Koha's interface ;-) 14:59 Ben shaun, shoiw us the damn templates!! 14:59 shaun ben: keep the love-life, piracy, pixels and random lengthy arguments out of #koha. 14:59 kados and that's how the templates got to where they are 14:59 rach so different design, but similar layout 14:59 kados I'm not just talking about the OPAC 14:59 kados but circulation/cataloging too 15:00 Ben we've not done anything to the OPAC yet. 15:00 kados (cataloging needs major work still) 15:00 rach the cataloguing is broken for the stuff we're doing 15:00 Ben we did all the work so far on circulation 15:00 kados http://koha.liblime.com/ 15:00 kados that's NPL templates for the circulation stuff 15:00 kados user: circ pass: liblime 15:01 Ben usable, and extremely ugly. 15:01 kados I didn't say they were perfect 15:01 Ben I know 15:01 shaun I can see the NPL in that ;-) 15:01 kados I don't think they are ugly BTW ;-) 15:02 Ben hmm. 15:02 kados that's a value judgement I guess 15:02 Ben shaun, show them the damned templates. 15:02 kados Ben: put a lid on it 15:02 kados Ben: :-) 15:02 owen Besides, kados isn't proposing that we use /those/ templates 15:02 owen But he is proposing that we use those as a basis for the official version 15:02 kados right 15:03 shaun so what are your experiences with NPL? do the librarians object to the colour scheme? 15:03 owen Here are the advantages of using NPL's templates as the basis of a new version: 15:03 owen 1. They're tested in a real-world setting 15:03 owen They've been in use for quite a while, and have been developed based on input from working librarians. 15:03 Ben hmph. - http://kohacvs.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/ un: kohaadmin, pw: hexthouse 15:03 rach if you are proposing that - I think I want to talk with someone (owen?) about what's on each "page" and why - because I think there are some architecture improvements that can be made - again before we decide on what colour the tabs should be 15:03 owen 2. They're maintained by a full-time librarian (me), who's actively involved with the development process. 15:03 shaun (i'll be back in 20 mins, cover for me ben, and remember, keep to koha) 15:04 Ben k 15:04 Ben what does everyone think of those templates? 15:04 kados Ben: that user/password isn't working for me 15:04 rach because I'm sure you've made some decisions after lots of internal wrangling - but others maybe not :-) 15:04 kados rach: exactly 15:05 rach ben - I'm not really interested in what they look like as in - are they beautiful - but I'm interested in how they work, what you can do on each page 15:05 shaun DDoS, DDoS... this is residential broadband you know. 15:05 rach I think we can make anything more beautiful, or more simple looking 15:05 Ben get a better connection then 15:05 rach often the same thing 15:05 shaun_20 shut up ben, i can't get fibre yet. 15:05 Ben lol 15:06 kados I agree rach 15:06 owen username for the link Ben posted is 'kohacvs' 15:06 rach so owen/joshua is that ok? 15:06 Ben is it? 15:06 Ben d'oh 15:06 kados rach: is what ok? 15:06 owen Okay to discuss that design, rach? 15:07 Ben rach, well, we didn't modify anything besides the look & feel yet.. and I am sure that anyone would rather use ours than the defaults 15:07 rach well more to interogate you about the decisions you made :-) 15:07 owen Of course. 15:07 Ben yeah, go on. 15:07 owen Please do. 15:07 Ben oops 15:07 rach and which things the libraians love, and which they don't 15:08 owen rach: one of the problems is that we don't use everything, so not everything has been real-world tested. 15:08 rach we have some much simpler tempaltes than the npl ones that we used for 1.x and 2.0 series libraries 15:08 owen Full acquisitions, for instance. 15:08 rach because they are for libraries not using marc - so your ones seem complicated in comparison 15:08 kados makes sense 15:08 owen rach: are you developing a new set of templates right now? 15:09 kados and again with the full acquisitions eh? 15:09 rach yes 15:09 osmoze hello all 15:09 rach which is why it's important to us :-) 15:09 kados welcome osmoze 15:09 owen Of course. 15:09 Ben so what does everyone think of the design of our templates? 15:09 kados Ben: noone can log in 15:09 Ben un: kohacvs, pw: hexthouse 15:10 kados Ben: they are the 2.2 default templates ;-) 15:10 Ben click circulation. 15:10 kados ok I see now 15:10 Ben muffin ;P 15:11 kados so usability: 15:11 kados what does it take for me to do a catalog search? 15:11 Ben the top-left logo is due for replacing, but otherwise I really like then 15:11 kados I have to click on catalogue 15:11 kados load a new page 15:11 kados then fill in stuff 15:11 kados then scroll down 15:11 kados then click on 'search' 15:12 Ben click catalogue or hit alt+f2, then fill out this form, then hit enter. 15:12 kados right ... well from a usability perspective I don't want to click at all 15:12 kados I want to have the catalog search option always resident on the page 15:12 Ben very well. 15:12 kados with NPL I can hit Alt-Q 15:12 kados type in my phrase 15:12 kados hit enter 15:13 kados Ben: make sense? 15:13 Ben how about, then, we redesign the templates you're using, to this new look & feel? admittedly, these ones aren't that much focused on usability 15:14 rach josh/owen, are there any features in the default templates, which aren't in npl? 15:14 owen There shouldn't be, unless I missed something. 15:14 rach ie, are the npl ones complete 15:14 Ben and admittedly, we haven't found time to do serious stuff to anything at all other than circulation 15:15 owen I try to include everything, even stuff we don't use. Then I hide that stuff in our installation 15:15 rach yep cool 15:15 Ben that's a good idea. 15:16 rach hokay, so I suspect the most useful thing to do is to get the developer templates underway - so the "plain" ones 15:16 kados LibLime's version of NPL's are mainly complete 15:16 kados yep ... sounds good 15:16 rach as then the developers can use them and stop the maddness :-) 15:16 kados :-) 15:16 indradg amen! 15:16 owen Okay...let's define what 'plain' means 15:16 rach ben and shaun, your design would be a nice "skin" 15:16 Ben yes. 15:17 Ben also, we have made pedantic changes to circulation which I think are nice 15:17 kados such as? 15:17 Ben (we didn't do anything else yet, as we haven't had time) 15:18 kados OK ... well if there's nothing else I guess we'll move on ... sorry this is taking so long 15:18 kados 3 is taken care of mostly as I suspected 15:18 Ben we removed the everpresent boxes, changed the wording of all the error messages to make them more comprehendable and coherent, made the entry box be focused on page load, etc etc etc etc 15:19 Ben tiny things. 15:19 kados Ben: great! we can incorporate those changes into the default templates 15:19 Ben yay. 15:19 kados anything else on templates? 15:20 kados Item 4. is Roles 15:20 Ben also, we've utterly revamped the coding, to make it css2 compliant as well as xhtml strict; and the styling is more logical now, for that page. 15:20 Ben carry on with 4, kados 15:21 kados Ben: NPL templates are valid 15:21 Ben the default ones aren't, and I was not aware of the existance of NPL templates until about an hour ago. 15:21 kados you're kidding! 15:22 Ben nope. 15:22 kados liblime's demos have been thrown up in your face constantly ;-) 15:22 Ben have they? I didn't notice 15:22 kados xhtml transitional with valid css 15:22 Ben lovely. 15:22 kados ok ... I'm moving on it item 4 15:22 kados wake up everyone :-) 15:23 indradg its 2 AM and I'm sleeping :) 15:23 kados Item 4 Roles 15:23 Ben half past nine in the evening here 15:23 kados can we elect an interface designer? Owen's volunteered 15:23 kados rach: opinion on this? 15:23 owen Talk about how you would define the role, kados. 15:24 kados ok the interface designer would .. 15:24 rach sorry searching 15:24 kados Designing a set of templates for Koha 2.4 based on current functionality, usability, color coordination, also maybe make sure it’s standards compliance, accessability is good for use on PDAs, Screen Readers, etc. 15:24 kados Make sure that alternative templates also conform to these requirements (they must before they can be included in the release). 15:24 kados 3. Write documentation on the process of templating to ease the learning curve for future templaters 15:24 kados RH-W 15:24 kados that's copied from my scratch pad 15:25 kados rach suggested: I’d like to see a design process gone through for the basic page designs if at all possible, and then the actual coding can get done. 15:25 kados so the Interface Designer would compile everyone's ideas and code 15:25 kados and design requests 15:26 kados and flesh them out into a set of default templates 15:26 rach well - that's a bit job, and we do normally split designer and coder into 2 people 15:26 rach so you could do that 15:26 kados me? ;-) 15:26 rach bit = big 15:27 rach doing the graphic design/architecture can be split from doing the html code 15:27 rach they don't need to be the same person 15:27 rach if that is too big a job 15:27 kados ok ... what do you think owen? 15:28 rach in fact you could split architecture --> design --> code 15:28 kados right ... architecture would be the programmer templates 15:28 kados right? 15:28 rach pretty much - that's the "what's on each page" bit 15:28 rach what 15:28 kados who can do the design? will we have to get 'quorum' from others to decide on the design? 15:29 rach what's the focus, what's most important etc 15:29 kados ahh ... I see 15:29 rach the design is then what colour is it :-) 15:29 Ben meeeee 15:29 Ben lol 15:29 rach and the code is making it happen 15:29 kados right 15:30 kados so rach can you do the 'design' part of this? 15:30 rach to get better design, you split that off from the code, so that you don't design stuff based on it being what you know how to code :-) 15:30 kados I assume that there will be lots of dialog between the three levels 15:30 kados owen: any opinions? 15:30 rach yep - time for all the ideas about how it works is the architecture stage 15:31 Ben kados, according to what I read earlier, shaun and I are reskinning the npl templates 15:31 owen I'd be happy to work with rach that way 15:31 rach but there is always stuff that comes up as you progress 15:31 Ben so how does that affect us? 15:31 kados Ben: great! we'll look forward to seeing your work 15:31 Irma I can proofread for spelling and use of same wording where appropriate as well as use of same font and size for opac and intranet displays 15:31 rach well the things you say you're thinking of changing about how circulations works - you should try and tell us 15:31 kados Irma: right good point 15:32 Ben oh, and we also have some ideas about wording.. owen may remember when I got so confused a while ago about the difference between reserved and reserved_waiting 15:32 rach yes - so we try to sort all that out, before we do graphics, so that you only have to do graphics once, and only for something we're already sure works 15:33 Ben ok 15:33 rach which is less frustrating :-) 15:33 kados So our programmers will handle the arcchiteture, rach will work with owen on design with some ideas from shaun and ben, and Owen will code the actual xhtml; Irma will proofread the results (and do quality assurance on it? is that ok?) 15:34 owen Sounds good to me. 15:34 Ben (I had reworded some of the errors) 15:34 kados I assume rach and owen can work on graphics together 15:34 Irma qa ok 15:34 kados Ben can send us his reworded stuff 15:34 Ben ok 15:34 kados and we'll incorporate it if it's better 15:34 Ben erm... where did I put it? lol 15:34 owen I wonder if we'll be able to have some kind of staging server where the process can be observed? 15:34 Ben I'll have to ask shaun for the template file later, the changes are in there 15:35 kados I can volunteer space at LibLime 15:35 shaun_20 I'm back... next time i should set time aside for IRC meetings 15:35 Ben owen, shaun was running the development server publicly (ish) 15:35 kados anything else to discuss? 15:36 shaun hang on... a recapitulation... will the NPL templates be the default now? 15:36 owen No, we're talking about a re-design. 15:36 Irma what is the time frame for all this? 15:36 kados Irma: good question 15:36 Ben shaun, we are helping rach & owen to reskin them, and they will be used < that's what I think has been said 15:36 kados we don't have an official timeframe for 2.4 ... loosley jan 1 2006 is the latest projection data I know of 15:37 kados because that's the date that SAN's deadline is on 15:37 Ben but my interpretation of other people's sayings is a little lax at times 15:37 shaun by reskinning, do you mean purely visual touchup or some additional template tourchup? 15:37 shaun sorry about this, I had to go and be talked at. 15:37 rach if you have things that you think need to be changed about how it works 15:37 Ben shaun, you know GTK window borders in gnome? 15:37 shaun yes 15:37 rach then we need to say so before you get to the pretties 15:38 kados great ... can we wrap things up then 15:38 rach so like we've just done for the website 15:38 shaun it's actually metacity that controls window borders in gnome, but carry on 15:38 kados rach: right 15:38 Ben approximately, we're making one for the npl templates 15:38 Ben in css/xhtml/png obviously 15:38 Ben fonts, borders, button styles, backgrounds, etc 15:39 shaun and what is the status of other devices eg. handhelds? 15:39 kados right ... rach and owen (and anyone else who'd care to join in) will be designing a mock up for 'pda' use I suppose 15:39 Ben erm... although I don't see why anyone should want to access koha thru a pda or wapphone, I don't see it's a problem 15:40 kados OK ... I'm declaring the meeting over 15:40 kados thanks everyone! 15:40 shaun ben: stocktake 15:40 Ben ? 15:40 owen Inventory. 15:40 owen Walking through the stacks looking for something on the shelf, and you wonder if it has been marked lost 15:40 Ben I know what it means, I just don't see what that particular noun has to do with templates 15:41 owen Find an item on the shelf that was checked out to someone, and checking it in right there. 15:41 Ben ohhhhhhh.... 15:41 Ben I see. 15:41 Ben although if I can get mrs simmonds to use a pda, I should be awarded a qualification in hypnosis 15:43 shaun so is it russ and I working on the website still? 15:44 Ben yes. 15:44 rach yep 15:44 shaun ben: we know that it's not a trial download now, hah-harrrrr 15:44 Ben aww, mibble. 15:53 Ben right, I'm gone - bed time. 15:56 russ back 16:18 slef hello 16:20 rach hi slef 16:22 slef another day, another duff web "accessibility" consultant demasked 16:22 rach nice 16:23 slef only nice if it gets fixed sites I can use more easily and/or more work for me ;-) 16:28 Genji is there any ability to catalogsearch() by loanstatus yet? 16:31 owen Genji, you mean, 'show me only items which aren't checked out'? 16:36 kados msg owen so can we talk a bit about the NPL website update? 16:36 kados oops 16:37 rach :-) 16:38 rach don;t suppose anyone knows how to set up the numbering calculation in serials? 16:39 slef hack the source :-/ 16:39 owen It's pretty obscure, rach, isn't it? 16:39 owen I think there's a help file for it, actually. 16:43 rach but isn't entirely helped :-) 16:43 kados hehe 16:45 owen Rach, I've puzzled it out before...where are you getting stuck? 16:45 owen Everywhere? :) 16:46 rach oh and they are wrong I think - excellent :-) 16:46 rach * Y add 1 once every 1 times. When more than 4 set back to 4. Begins with 1 16:46 rach will result in the following issues numbers : 16:46 rach I think that should be set back to 1 16:47 rach so my serial says May 2005 Issue 56 16:48 owen The numbering formula will only work on the 'Issue 56' part. 16:48 rach really 16:58 Genji koha version 2.2.2b. opac catalogsearch() items.holdingbranch doesn't seem to work. anyone have any ideas why not? 16:59 slef kados: quick, correct ID -> IN before indradg notices! 16:59 slef I misread logs as indonesia instead of india :-( 17:01 kados slef: ahh ... cool thanks 17:02 shaun hehe... reminds me of the time somebody in my music class wrote a "vietnamese waltz" 17:03 slef attack, retreat, lose on the home front? 17:03 kados :-) 17:04 rach joshua - irma is in australia :-) 17:05 chris in seeedney 17:09 slef post 17:09 rach :-) 17:09 rach plain brown wrapper 17:10 shaun I'm off to bed, bye 17:10 rach by shaun - oh I've had little luck sending fonts 17:10 shaun what do you mean? 17:10 rach windows doesn't give them up 17:10 shaun ah 17:11 shaun can you not copy them into a folder outside of the fonts folder and then zip that up? 17:11 rach I have tried that before, and not succeeded 17:12 shaun ok, thanks for trying, I'm being kicked off now... bye 17:20 Genji Okay, it seems that searching by items.holdingbranch does not work, im thinking because any transfer does not sync the marc database. Just the old-DB. 18:18 Irma Rachel: regarding periodicals, there are quite a few different aspects to concider. The easy part is if the issue is received in the mail and is the hard copy. The accessioning takes place meaning the issue gets date stamped and ownership staped or labelled. The catalogue entry for the journal now says: all the other issue numbers + this issue number and sometimes libraries obt to say: nex... 18:18 Irma ...issue due:...A lot of libraries purchase through an aggregator ejournals only or ejournals and also receive the print by mail. They purchase individual or institutional electronic access. EBSCOhost Electronic Journals Service for example gives librarie 2 options to download MARC titles. I don't know by experience but it's something I need to work out for a client soon 18:18 rach irma - ah no I was trying to use the actual serials bit in koha for arclib 18:18 rach to set up an example for them 18:18 rach and I've got as far as setting up the periodical 18:19 rach and it seems to know that it should be recieving them 18:19 rach but it doesn't have a place for putting in barcodes etc, and I'm not sure they are actually getting "in" 18:19 rach if you go to your arclib one and look at "her business" 18:20 rach ah well - that is progress 18:20 rach we get a server error now :-0 18:20 Irma ok will do in a minute remember also Rachel Arclib usually indexes every article in every issue 18:22 Irma few clients, as I can gather buy the ejournal. Pasting the scanned contents page would be better than entering each one. 18:22 Irma Rachel were you wanting to do this now? I actually have heaps of work to do for the State Library d/b review and it's due by tonight... 18:23 Irma arclib is scheduled for monday am onwards...You?? 18:23 rach no way - you go irma 18:23 rach I was just having a try while I was still in koha mode :-) 18:24 rach and had a magazine on my desk 18:24 Irma merci! 18:24 rach and I figured I would have questions for paul et al, about how it actually works, before you and I get into how it should work 18:25 Irma i will just stay online to get IRC comfortable along the day 18:26 rach very good 18:37 kados Irma: sorry about getting your country wrong 18:54 Genji breaking for lunch. 18:58 rach irma is international really :-) 19:02 Genji hey, thought occurs, what happens if a woman gives birth inside the UN building? 19:02 Genji is the child an international citizen? 19:03 rach which UN building :-) 19:04 Genji UM building in Washington... where the Security council meets, and the UN Congress. 19:04 Genji it is washington right? 19:05 chris the un headquarters are in new york 19:05 chris but there are un buildings all over the place 19:05 chris http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery/Vienna/dsc00294 <-- including this one in vienna 19:05 Genji ya. those ones. the un headquarters in new york. 19:06 Genji if a woman gives birth in the un headquarters.... international soil right? how is citizenship of child decided? 19:06 chris no idea 19:08 kados chris: morning ;-) ... quick question: is there a really brainless and simple way in perl to check if a URL is valid and didn't 404 ... what would be the fastest way to do this? 19:08 chris lwp::simple im guessing 19:09 chris or maybe HTTP::Status 19:09 kados ok ... /me just realized after coding for half-an-hour that I didn't need HTTP::Request + LWP::UserAgent to do this ;-) 19:09 kados I'm going to add the 'google-style' definitions to Koha 19:09 kados using answers.com 19:10 kados oooh ... HTTP::Status probably ... thanks 19:11 chris ah no LWP::Simple is probably the easiest 19:12 chris get($url) 19:12 chris The get() function will fetch the document identified by the given URL and return it. It returns 19:12 chris "undef" if it fails. The $url argument can be either a simple string or a reference to a URI object. 19:12 kados but I don't want to return the url ... just to test it 19:12 kados is that even possible? 19:12 chris well all u need are the headers 19:14 chris hmm u might end up with UserAgent after all 19:16 kados right ... to just get the headers ... cool thanks 19:46 kados sweet: 19:47 kados http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&and_or=and&operator=contains&value=ladies%20home%20journal 19:53 kados it will list the urls for definitions only if the terms searched for actually have definitions 20:02 Genji okay, im back. 21:08 kados it's kinda problematic 21:09 kados because answers.com doesn't actually spit out useful response codes 21:09 kados everything comes back as a 200 21:09 kados and I can't find anything unique in the headers for items that have definitions vs those that don't 21:09 kados so I've got to search through <head> 21:10 kados if there's a definition the <head> has Definition in it 21:10 kados otherwise it doesn't 21:10 kados I added a timout of 10 as well so it won't hang if the response is slow due to network outage, etc. 21:11 kados hey owen 21:11 kados check out the fancy definitions on liblime's opac 21:11 owen I was just reading the logs (because I'm a big big nerd), and noticed Genji found out the problem with a search on holdingbranch 21:12 owen The same one we discovered recently.. :) 21:12 kados :-) 21:12 kados that wasn't too recent eh? 21:12 owen Genji: You're absolutely right: a search by holdingbranch is inaccurate because holdingbranch isn't updated in the MARC database. 21:14 Genji thought so. 21:14 owen So kados you're checking to see if the definition address exists before displaying the link? 21:14 kados owen: http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&and_or=and&operator=contains&value=Ladies%20Home%20Journal 21:14 kados yea 21:14 owen Neat. 21:14 Genji so, rach's feature request cannot be done 100% 21:15 owen Ooh, and it handles multiple keywords! Very nice. 21:15 kados yep ;-) 21:15 owen Now all you've got to do is show the forecast when someone searches for books on weather! 21:15 owen Genji, we updated the search parameters to look for currentbranch, as I recall. 21:15 kados yea ... that wouldln't be too hard to do .. in fact, since I'm already grabbing data from answers.com I can parse it and display in on the page in any way I want 21:16 kados i.e., scrape the whole page 21:16 owen No, maybe I'm wrong. 21:16 owen items.homebranch is what it says. 21:17 Genji hmm owen? ya. i don't want the homebranch 21:17 owen No good solution at the moment I think. 21:17 Genji i thought so, ya. 21:17 owen Anyway, that's all I got :) 21:20 Genji my test (home) server is http://222.152.133.79/ ... implementing rach's feature request: add sidebar "search options"... info found at http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/koha2-4/search_ideas_1 21:20 Genji feel free to take a look. 21:20 kados cool 21:21 kados very cool Genji! 21:23 Genji well.. its getting there. 21:23 Genji example search, type theosophy in the front pages quicksearch. okay. then type reincarnation in the keyword/subject box, remember to click search within, and then click quick search. 21:24 Genji after that, type powell into the keyword/subject box, search within, then click quicksearch. 21:25 Genji The Filter by functionality, and the non-fiction, fiction etc searchby is being implemented. 21:31 kados hehe ... neat 21:31 Genji you tried ti? 21:37 kados yea ... works great 21:37 kados you should make that bullet automatic 21:39 rach the radio auto on search within? that's cool well done 21:39 kados yea 21:41 Genji huh? radio auto on search within?... you mean that the radio option "search within" should be turned on by default? 21:44 Genji makes logical sense. 21:50 rach ya 21:52 Genji done, it works perfectly. 21:52 Genji hmm.. halfway to finishing the categorytable edit page, based on itemtypes. 21:53 Irma lunch break and reading about Innovative's new partnership http://www.biblio-tech.com/uksg/SI_PD.cfm?AC=1997&PID=10&ZID=1887> Koha beiing "googable"? any comments? 21:54 kados Irma: search google for: Nelsonville Public Library James Bond 21:55 kados it should pull up results directly from NPL's catalog 21:55 Irma trying it now Joshua 21:55 kados koha is 'googable' ;-) 21:56 rach always has been - because we don't have session problems 21:56 rach everything is a proper/static url from googles pov 21:59 kados ok ... this definition thing just got a bit better 21:59 kados http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&and_or=and&operator=contains&value=Ladies'%20Home%20Journal 21:59 kados now mouse over the definitions 21:59 kados (don't click) 22:00 kados (I still need to set styles for the 'title' entities ... but it's a decent proof of concent) 22:02 kados (better functionally than google ;-)) 22:06 Irma thanks for the clarifications. 2 attemps got a "internal server error...contact oleonard"...but I believe you and must rush back to my work. Thanks. 22:08 kados strange ... I'm not getting internal server error now 22:11 Irma http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/cgi-bin/koha/opac-searchresults.pl?type=opac&keyword=james+bond 22:12 kados right ... that is a problem 22:12 kados I wonder why 22:14 kados Irma: firstoff, NPL isn't using opac-searchresults.pl 22:14 kados that's why it's throwing an error 22:14 kados opac-searchresults.pl is archaic from the dark ages of 1.2 I think 22:14 kados it shouldn't even be in that directory 22:14 kados ;-) 22:15 kados http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&and_or=and&operator=contains&value=james%bond 22:15 kados try that link 22:15 kados oops 22:15 kados http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&and_or=and&operator=contains&value=james%20bond 22:15 kados that's better 22:16 kados (of course, liblime doesn't have any james bond books) 22:16 kados but you can see the definitions working 22:18 Irma very snazzy! 22:19 Irma bye for now and keep up the good work :-) 22:19 kados Irma: take care 22:21 indradg hi kados 22:22 indradg kados, got a question... abt the goodies u r putting together e.g. definitions, searches on Google scholar etc 22:23 indradg will this features be controllable from the System Param page so that the user be able to turn on / off these on-demand? 22:23 indradg s/this/these/ 22:33 kados indradg: in 2.4 yes 22:33 kados at the moment, no 22:33 kados :-) 22:33 kados I'm not sure how to handle 'turning them off' in the template though 22:34 kados I suspect they will always need to be customized with templates 22:42 indradg hmmm 22:43 indradg how abt something like drupal does... calls it "Block Management" u toggle things with "Static on page <x>" yes | no options 22:56 indradg rosa, hi 23:02 kados indradg, rach, etc ... try it now! 23:02 Genji wooot! 23:02 kados Genji: like it? 23:02 Genji got a categorycode table implemented. 23:03 kados Genji: or you got something working? 23:03 kados sweet! 23:03 rach what are ew trying? 23:03 Genji with its editor in parameters. 23:03 kados rach: http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&and_or=and&operator=contains&value=ladies%20home%20journal 23:04 kados and mouse over the definitions: ladies, home, and journal 23:04 kados eat your heart out google! 23:04 rach cute :-) 23:05 rach slef will have you tho for mystery nav - he didn't like my "you've borrowed this before" idea because of it :-)) 23:05 kados mystery nav? 23:06 kados what does he mean by that? 23:06 Genji rach. i took your idea of Catagories... like Fiction, nonfiction, Non=Fiction and Fiction.... implemented it by categorytable... categorytable->Non-fiction->ANF|JNF etc. and made a parameters interface to it. 23:06 kados yea ... Genji's stuff looks real nice 23:06 rach cool 23:07 rach um mystery meat navigation, usually where you've no idea what the navigation is 23:07 Genji okay... how do i use dyndns names to serve both intranet and opac to the net? 23:08 Genji change ServerName directive in apache, right? 23:08 rach so the star by the book title qualifies 23:08 rach ah but yours doesn't really 23:08 rach so that's ok 23:11 rach your light green is a bit odd odd on my monitor by the way - it's a particular shade that I've only really seen on VW Golf cars 23:11 rach and doesn't entirely go with our purple 23:11 rach but I am on a lcd, so it could be me 23:11 kados :-) 23:11 rach our = you 23:12 rach god 23:12 rach your 23:12 kados ok 23:13 kados Genji: you can setup multiple names on dyndns for your IP address 23:13 kados then you'll want a line: 23:13 kados NameVirtualHost 99.99.99.99 23:14 kados where the 9s are your IP 23:14 kados that goes in httpd.conf 23:14 kados then you can set up ServerName directives for each DocumentRoot you want to use 23:15 kados rach: the 'star by the book?' 23:15 kados the light green is an odd shade on some monitors ... something I've got to fix 23:16 rach um 23:16 rach http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/koha2-4/search_ideas_details_4 23:16 kados rach: so from a design perspective, where would you put the definitions functionality as I've just done it 23:17 kados oooh nice 23:17 rosa rach, one of my borrowers whom I let look at your koha2-4 screen loved the "you've borrowed it before" above all else 23:17 rach :-) 23:17 kados yea ... that's a great idea 23:17 Genji okay, dyndns done... but ServerName genjimoto.is-a-geek.org isn't going to intranet, it still goes to opac. 23:18 kados and when you rollover the star it could pop the message up 23:18 rach yep 23:18 kados using my new friend ;-) 23:18 rach so once you'd done that once, you'd remember 23:18 rach and not have to do it 23:18 kados right 23:18 rach unless you forgot :-) 23:18 kados :-) 23:18 kados and it tells you when you borrowed it 23:18 kados really nice rach 23:18 rach yep 23:18 rach ta 23:19 kados so ... what about definitions? Do you think they could fit in somewhere? 23:19 rach yep 23:19 rach sorry having a think 23:19 kados np ... /me sets about another idea he had recently 23:20 rach ah, so this is on the results page 23:22 kados it can be anywhere 23:22 kados on the details page as well 23:22 rach OK - one or the things that is a bit "hard" on this pagehttp://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&type=opac&marclist=&and_or=and&excluding=&operator=contains&value=ladies+home+journal 23:22 kados that's a two second add 23:22 rach on the left, there is the liblime menu 23:22 kados right 23:22 rach and under it is the help - 23:22 kados right 23:22 Genji oh.. restart apache... :) 23:22 kados Genji: :-) 23:23 rach but I think you might want the help over with the other options - so that you're looking in the same place 23:23 kados oooh yea ... you're right 23:23 rach I'm becoming more of a fan - in an actual library - of not having a whole lot of extra menu options on the page once you're "into" something 23:23 kados meaning I could shift the results over to the far left side 23:23 indradg kados, the floating text defs are nice :) 23:24 kados indradg: thanks ;-) 23:24 rach to reduce the visual cluter - particularly as stuff gets more tricky 23:24 kados right 23:24 rach yep that's the big difference in the variation on NPL that I did 23:25 indradg Genji, did u get it to work? 23:25 rach so when we had pretty easy search options - it didn't matter much, but if we add in more search stuff you can do, we should probably drop some stuff off as well 23:25 rach to omany stuffs in that sentance 23:25 Genji http://genjimoto.is-a-geek.org/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl 23:25 rach http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/koha2-4/search_ideas_details_4?full=1 23:25 Genji yup. strange that opac-main.pl comes up as default. 23:25 rach so in there I had all the change your search stuff grouped together 23:26 rach and no help :-) 23:26 Genji anyway.... navigate your way to parameters->item categories 23:26 rach so not a big improvement :-_) 23:26 chris that'll be ur browser caching the redirect genji 23:26 chris (ie it will have cached the index.html when it was still pointing to the opac site) 23:26 rach man not even on the menu that was bad of me :-) 23:27 chris cos it goes straight to the right place for me (as i hadnt visited it before) 23:27 Genji have a play, rach. Add a category, delete a category, modify a category. 23:27 rach that;s the wrong page - http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/koha2-4/search_ideas_1 that's the equiv isn't it 23:27 kados yea ... better 23:27 indradg Genji, user/pw ? 23:27 Genji koha/koha. 23:28 indradg thnx 23:28 Genji only got two itemtypes at the mo. suppose i should add more. 23:28 kados so in this case, 'ancient rome' could hold the definitions (on the right) 23:29 rach cool 23:29 rach and a new category 23:29 Genji yup. have a play. 23:29 rach yup 23:30 Genji now, on to modifying opac-search.pl to pump categories onto the searchresults page, for the sidebar. 23:30 rach yup to joshua - or you could have that over by the actual words 23:31 rachel so you might want to group the definition, over by the bit that says the keywords you searched on, 23:31 kados right 23:32 dean2 http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&type=opac&marclist=&and_or=and&excluding=&operator=contains&value=ladies+home+journal 23:32 rachel sorry just getting page up again 23:34 kados I've got to get to bed ... 12:30 am here ;-) 23:34 rachel oh so if you were doing it on my one, which says you searched on ancient rome, 70 found 23:34 kados thanks for the ideas rach! 23:34 indradg g'nite kados 23:34 rachel on the right, under that would be nice :-) 23:34 rachel you've had a big day 23:34 kados yep ;-) 23:34 rachel sleep well, don't "fizz" :-) 23:34 indradg heh 23:34 kados I'll work up another design and let you know ;-) 23:34 kados Genji: please commit your work to HEAD asap so I can try it out ;-) 23:35 rachel cool 23:39 Genji would probably mean i would have to modify npl's template too. 23:39 Genji so npl's template would work.... Anyone want any templating work? 23:41 Genji okay, thats impressive. msn search on opac... guess what comes up #1? horowhenua's public library. 23:44 chris http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&q=opac&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryNZ 23:44 chris google too, if you search only nz sites 23:47 Genji woot.. got the categories loading onto the template. 23:49 rachel this is why we need developer templates 23:49 rachel so that we have one lot we make changes to 23:52 rachel si? 23:52 Genji si, seniorita. 23:54 Genji rach, you've added a website biblio? 23:55 Genji to make use of the website itemtype? 23:55 rachel no 23:55 rachel I just made the itemtype 23:56 Genji okay. so.. i acquire a website link.... 23:57 rachel sorry I've switched computers - what's your link again? 23:59 rachel I'm not sure what will happen if anything if you do that 23:59 rachel we do lots of stuff with website links 00:00 rachel but I don't think it's in these templates 00:01 rachel it was in our 2.0 ones, but I'm not sure it's in the main ones 00:01 Genji okay.. thats wack. 00:01 rachel but it might be 00:02 Genji i just added a dummy website link, subject Dummyweb. Searched for it via opac by subject only. Can't find it. Marc subject entry isn't updating when you savebiblio..... 00:02 Genji wait... ive fixedthis problem before..... someone removed my fix. 00:04 kados cvs -z3 -d:ext:gengi@sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/koha co koha 00:04 kados oops ... the gigs up ;-) 00:05 rachel you're not asleep 00:05 kados i came back cause I forgot something ... 00:06 Genji need to sometime install coLinux on my harddrive.... 00:07 Genji http://genjimoto.is-a-geek.org/ is intranet. i'll put up an opac link soon. 00:08 rachel ah no redirect 00:10 Genji huh? 00:10 rachel can't get off the front page 00:10 Genji hrm. wierdness. 00:10 rachel not asked ot login 00:10 Genji http://genjimoto.is-a-geek.org/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl 00:12 Genji bug with intranet detail.pl ... it uses javascript to create a confirm delete messagebox? well... theres an error in the javascript.. i can't use 'delete' to delete. 00:14 Genji okay, now fixed, again, bug with biblio.pm when marc is off. subjects arn't saved into marc ... modsubject sub. 00:15 Genji doing dyndns for opac... 00:19 Genji http://intranet.genjimoto.is-a-geek.org/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl is intranet 00:19 Genji http://opac.genjimoto.is-a-geek.org/ is opac. 00:22 Genji okay. so category searches aren't working yet. Working on it.... 00:28 kados :-) 00:28 rach you need that milo :-) 00:28 kados yea I do 00:28 rach actually looking at their websit - maybe not 00:28 rach http://www.nestle.co.nz/milo/main.asp 00:29 kados http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&and_or=and&operator=contains&value=ladies%20home%20journal 00:29 chris i never understood the milo at night theory 00:29 kados rach, chris, Gengi take a look a the amazon image rolovers 00:29 kados rollovers that is 00:29 chris here have a pile of caffeine and sugar .. now go to sleep :) 00:29 kados hehe 00:29 rach it's so they don't get hungry 00:29 rach the milk 00:29 rach does that 00:30 chris i reckon ur better off with horlicks 00:30 kados http://opac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?op=do_search&and_or=and&operator=contains&value=home 00:30 kados that's a better link (still some bugs to work out) 00:30 kados roll your mouse over an image 00:31 chris thats kinda cool 00:31 chris the only downside i can think of 00:31 kados all css ... just extra page loads 00:31 chris yeah 00:32 kados it'd be a great way to browse books 00:32 rach that just doesn't work in firefox for me 00:32 chris your firefox is kinda mental rach 00:32 kados what does it do? 00:32 chris it does weird stuff with images 00:33 chris like the ads thing yesterday 00:33 rach it just doesn't show them 00:33 kados weird 00:33 chris what version of firefox? 00:33 chris it seems to just do mad stuff 00:34 rach 1.0 00:34 chris right they are up to 1.0.4 now 00:34 rach Gecko/20040913 Firefox/0.10.1 00:34 chris wonder if its worth upgrading? 00:35 rach seems like it :-) 00:35 chris http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ 00:35 kados it's pretty easy to upate 00:35 chris i think it had some good security fixes in it 00:35 kados update that is 00:35 kados yea rach you'll want to fix that sll bug 00:35 kados ssl that is ;-) 00:38 Genji okay. new search, category online works as far as my programming is concerned... once again, it looks like saveitem does not save the itemtype into marc. 00:39 Genji i'll finish it off, by doing the within search, category.. 00:49 osmoze hello, who is the katiposirc admin op ? 00:52 Genji WOOOT! 00:53 Genji Finished Category and Class search. so, only thing needed to do is the available checkbox functionality... and eh... that will be difficult. 01:08 rach joshua if you are still awake - http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/album137/search 01:08 rach not much better 01:10 rach http://katipo.co.nz/gallery/album137/search_lime_001 01:12 rach ozmoze - what are you after? 01:18 Genji rach, what you think of the sidebar? not done yet, got to add subcategory filter (like Junior Non-Fiction) and itemtype filter (which the class filter is doing, but shouldn't.) 01:30 Genji back, after resetting my router. flatmate wanted a few ports. 01:30 Genji did i miss anything? 03:20 Genji i guess everyones asleep? 03:27 FrancoisL The sun never sets on the Koha empire - it's 10:25 here in glorious Paris, France :) 03:27 osmoze It's the same time near Toulouse, France too :) 03:40 Sylvain hi/salut 03:44 Sylvain koha à l'enssib paul ;) 03:44 paul salut 03:44 paul FrancoisL est bien lyrique ce matin... 03:45 slef tu parles! 03:48 FrancoisL Salut Paul ! Je suis en réunion... encore... A++ 03:48 paul a+ 04:40 slef and so on goes the GBP 100 ineffective ID cards problem... http://www.no2id.net/news/pressRelease/release.php?name=Kill+Bill+2 05:20 paul_lunc k 05:21 Sylvain paul_lunc ça a l'air cool ta poc, ça a l'air tentant ... 05:21 paul_lunc on va voir les essais de Nelsonville... 05:21 FrancoisL Bon app' ! 05:21 paul_lunc bon, là je vais vraiment déjeuner. 06:06 Genji hey paul, ya awake? 06:46 paul Genji, i'm here 06:54 Genji hiya, your a marc guy, yes? you can do marc stuff? 06:59 paul tell me your problem. 06:59 paul The only note is that i'm unimarc, not MARC21. 07:01 Genji okay. 1. items.holdingbranch in marc tables isn't being updated when items are transfered. not even sure if it gets populated. 2. items.itemtype in marc table isn't getting stored, i don't think. 07:03 paul 1. you're right. & may consider this as a bug 07:03 paul 2. do you mean biblioitems.itemtype ? 07:03 Genji yes 07:03 Genji thanks. 07:04 paul then, it's supposed to be populated. so you should have a problem in your data migration and/or parameters 07:05 Genji okay. 07:05 Genji what about bug #1? 07:07 paul in fact it's a problem only when you want to share your MARC datas. 07:07 paul otherwise, from circulation, everything is OK. 07:07 paul so, nobody saw this problem until now 07:07 paul (even if I knew it was here) 07:08 Genji eh, im trying to do catalogsearch on items.holdingbranch, amoungst other parameters ofhte search. 07:09 paul you're doing something that nobody made before ;-) 07:11 Genji no, marclist items.holdingbranch is inside the opac-search.tmpl of the default css.. so, people have used it. 07:14 Genji anyway. time to sleep. its 12 am here. back at, oh... 6:30am. 08:21 slef indradg: what do you think to removing all but the original (and possibly en) versions of templates and using tmpl_process to generate them at installation time? 08:44 paul_away back in 2 hours 11:59 indradg slef, i'm back