Time  Nick      Message
12:11 kados     paul: the z39.50 server I wrote doesn't discard results that the library has ;-)
12:11 kados     what would be the point? ;-)
12:12 kados     or were you using Koha's z-client to search the z-server?
14:56 slef      shaun: reading logs?
15:00 owen      Or maybe sawing logs?
15:02 tim       at least about to saw.  gotta move around a bit
15:03 shaun     slef: yes
15:03 shaun     i solved the problem.
16:02 Genji     morning guys.
16:25 kados     morning Genji
16:36 Genji     hiya all.
17:16 kados     hey russ
17:16 russ      hi
17:49 slef      what's FRBR?
17:54 kados     Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records
17:54 kados     http://www.ifla.org/VII/s13/frbr/frbr.pdf
17:54 kados     http://www.oclc.org/research/projects/frbr/default.htm
17:54 kados     http://www.loc.gov/cds/FRBR.html
17:54 kados     that last one is probably the best intro
19:22 Genji     hiya yall. how do you make a book nonfiction or fiction? is it a itemtype thing?
19:23 Genji     So, a book, adult non fiction (ANF) would pass through nonfiction filter *NF?
19:24 Genji     how would my script know what itemtype/class is nonfiction/fiction?
20:58 rach      it is itemtype
20:58 rach      but i was trying to agrigate kids NF + Teens NF + Adult NF
21:21 Genji     oh hiya rach.
21:21 Genji     ya. hmmmm....
21:22 Genji     Ahh... its common for libraries to have KNF TNF ANF as their itemtype codes?
21:32 rach      it was the idea of "super classes" really
21:32 rach      and i think that certainly they have junior non fiction and just non fiction
21:32 Genji     ahh. so really.. you want super classes implemented?
21:32 rach      in a public library
21:33 rach      I wanted a library to tell us if it was a good idea
21:33 Genji     hmm.... i can see that it would be cool.
21:33 rach      I thought it would be cool, so that's 2 of us :-)
21:33 rach      but it might be hard
21:33 Genji     nope.
21:33 rach      however I think the rest is not so hard
21:33 Genji     i can see that it'll be a preferences table i think...
21:34 Genji     superclasses -> superclassname (multiple) -> superclassitem (string of class codes)
21:35 chris     way ahead of ya :)
21:35 chris     take a look here
21:35 Genji     yes please.
21:36 chris     http://opac.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl
21:36 chris     see the classes?
21:36 Genji     hmm.. ya.. i been there.
21:36 chris     ysql> select * from itemtypesearchgroups;
21:36 chris     +-------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
21:36 chris     | groupname         | itemtypes                                     |
21:36 chris     +-------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
21:36 chris     | Adult Fiction     | BF|BLF|BSF|BPF|PHB|PPB|BYF                    |
21:36 chris     | Adult Non Fiction | BN|BLN|BPN|BSN|BYN|BR|F|BH|BM                 |
21:37 chris     | CD Rom            | C|CD|CJ                                       |
21:37 chris     | DVD               | DP|DJP|DYP|D|DJ|D
21:37 rach      ah nice
21:37 Genji     ahh... cool..
21:37 chris     which is used in the template
21:37 Genji     ill put it into rach's feature request.
21:37 chris     <option value="BF|BLF|BSF|BPF|PHB|PPB|BYF">Adult Fiction
21:37 chris     <option value="BN|BLN|BPN|BSN|BYN|BR|F|BH|BM">Adult Non Fiction
21:37 rach      this is something you'd have to do for each library - because they all use different classes
21:37 Genji     yup.
21:37 rach      and would want different things
21:38 chris     so that needs a nice interface to edit that table
21:38 Genji     sounds like it would be easy.
21:38 chris     im thinking checkboxes or something
21:39 Genji     Would save them the effort of remembering itemtype codes.
21:41 Genji     hmmm.. is rach always like this? here for a few minutes, gone again?
21:41 chris     yep, cos shes working
21:41 chris     like me
21:41 chris     so during the day we only glance at #koha
21:42 Genji     i have three screens.
21:42 Genji     and #koha has been on the right one for the last 24 hours.
21:42 chris     i watch #koha but dont usually say much during the day cos im usually too busy
21:47 Genji     so, pesudocode for the interface would be, 1. load itemtypes from its table. name and code only. 2. create table with headers. 3. place an add textbox with add command button. 4. on already added groupnames, put all the itemtypes in checkboxes (X) with full name. 4. have Save and Cancel buttons. Save would "update" the groupname table.. and "insert" if add was ever pressed.... then return to system preferences.
21:47 Genji     what you think?
21:48 chris     sounds ok to me
21:52 Genji     okay.. think ill finish off rach's feature request.
21:52 Genji     then work on the table and interface. I need to modify updatedatabase.pl to account for the new table, right?
21:52 chris     yep
21:54 Genji     is there a table to tell systempreferences to display a link to edititemtypegroup.pl?
21:54 chris     dunno, u might have to edit the template
21:55 Genji     cool.
21:58 Genji     could i get your source for opac-search.pl from you?
21:59 chris     probably wont help you much thats old 1.2 koha
22:00 Genji     hrm.... well.. the source for the group lookup would be good, and how it gets put into the catalogsearch.
22:00 chris     ahh thats just fetched from the table and put into a template
22:00 chris     ie its stored as
22:00 chris     BN|BLN|BPN|BSN|BYN|BR|F|BH|BM
22:01 chris     and thats what ends up in the form
22:01 Genji     oh.. right.
22:01 chris     <option value="BF|BLF|BSF|BPF|PHB|PPB|BYF">
22:01 Genji     so it just becomes &marclist=items.itemtype ----- &value=BF BLF BSF etc?
22:02 chris     no marclist in 1.2
22:02 Genji     ah.
22:02 chris     (as i said, it wont help ya much) :)
22:03 Genji     hmm....
22:03 Genji     ill see what i can come up with.
22:07 Genji     out to do stuff. back in... oh.. an hour.
23:17 Genji     back
23:18 Genji     chris, ya watching?
02:17 Genji     ouch. cleaning my room, and my computer plug got pulled out accidently.
03:02 hdl       Salut.
03:02 Genji     Salut, hdl. I only speak english.
03:02 hdl       Hi Genji.
03:04 hdl       paul : I have read The latests issue of LinuxPratique Magazine. It has an article about Koha. ;)
03:52 Sylvain   salut tout le monde
04:01 Genji     ah. drat. wheres the logbots output address?
04:11 Genji     found it.. and found what i was looking for. I love the logbot.
04:31 hdl       paul : commiting acqui/histsearch modifications : interface design could certainly be improved
04:32 hdl       But I have no idea how.
04:34 hdl       For detail.pl problem in intranet... Problem on subject search. I think I cannot use Authorites search, and search.march/search.pl either. Am I right ?
05:24 hdl       paul : the 'filter' proposed on borrowers w/o issues is not realy a "filter" as such : Indeed, it leads to much more results. For Instance, borowers w/o issues since today...  ;)  But I did it ;)
07:46 paul      hdl ?
07:46 paul      ton commit sur borrowers_out.pl fonctionne bien ?
07:46 paul      parce que pour moi, pas du tout. Tu utilises des requètes imbriquées, qui ne sont supportées que depuis mySQL 4.1
07:47 paul      or ce n'est pas encore assez répandu, il faut être compatible avec 4.0
07:47 paul      et faire sans requètes imbriquées.
08:43 FrancoisL Hi everyone, hi Paul ! I finally have 10 minutes free (my next appointment isn't started yet !)
08:44 paul      alors bienvenue. c'est une heure habituellement calme.
08:44 FrancoisL I was at the BPI (largest public library in Paris, 450 public stations) with the SAN this morning.
08:44 FrancoisL 'twas gorgeous :)
08:44 paul      what kind of gorgeous ? You install Koha next week ?
08:44 paul      lol
08:44 FrancoisL :) nope - MMediaView...
08:50 kados     hu FrancoisL, paul
08:50 kados     hi even ;-)
08:50 paul      'morning joshua
09:02 FrancoisL Salam, Joshua :!: How's life ?
09:02 kados     pretty good, and you?
09:02 kados     weather in athens is beautiful today
09:03 paul      in Marseille too.
09:03 FrancoisL Nice :) 31° C here, some clouds...
09:03 paul      in Paris, probably raining (for francoisl)
09:03 kados     about 30 here today ;-)
09:03 paul      ;-)
09:03 kados     hehe
09:03 FrancoisL I was in Martinique last week - 35°C, great sun (water at 28°C)
09:03 kados     oohh nice! like a bath ;-)
09:04 kados     (except for brief times in Greece)
09:04 FrancoisL No see in Athens - what a paradox...
09:04 FrancoisL Must lmeave friends ! Be back in an hour...
09:04 kados     I know! although the real Athens is pretty dirty -- the islands are nice for swimming ;-
09:04 kados     ciao
09:05 paul      joshua/kados, do you have few minuts to speak ?
09:05 paul      (it's about "quest for search")
09:12 kados     sure
09:12 kados     paul: you have an idea?
09:12 paul      (on phone)
09:12 kados     ok
09:21 kados     paul: I'm listening so when you're back let me know your ideas
09:24 slef      hi shaun
09:30 paul      kados, i'm back
09:30 hdl       paul : par rapport à ce que tu me dis sur mon commit : chez moi ça marche, sinon je ne l'aurais pas commité. ;)
09:30 paul      et tu es en 4.1
09:30 paul      ?
09:30 hdl       oui.
09:31 paul      donc le pb vient des requètes imbriquées.
09:31 hdl       Mais je ne vois pas comment faire autrement que par une requête imbriquée.
09:31 paul      en général la réponse est : en 2 requètes
09:31 kados     me too
09:31 kados     ;-)
09:31 paul      i wanted to speak of Search.
09:31 kados     right
09:31 paul      i've some questions
09:32 kados     ok ... shoot
09:32 paul      plucene seems not to be what we are looking for isn't it ?
09:33 paul      on one hand I agree it's stupid to re-invent the wheel. So if we can find a useful tool, then we should use it.
09:33 paul      On the other hand, we are looking for a very specific tool.
09:33 kados     well the features are very good with plucene but as far as I can tell it's too slow
09:33 paul      it seems.
09:33 kados     I agree
09:33 paul      we are looking for a very specific tool because we have a complex scheme & dependancies.
09:33 paul      for example an "author" can be more than 1 thing.
09:34 kados     http://www.namazu.org/doc/tutorial.html#run-mknmz
09:34 paul      (author, co-author, authority author...)
09:34 kados     http://59.93.161.79/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi (here is an example of Namzu with a Koha database ... sort of --it's indrag's)
09:34 kados     right  ... all the relevant marc tags/subfields
09:35 paul      (ip unreachable)
09:35 kados     too bad
09:35 kados     he must have turned off his machine ;-)
09:35 slef      is plucene related to lucene?
09:35 kados     yep ... a perl port (a slow one)
09:35 paul      my goal is to have a Koha not to hard to install
09:35 kados     hmmm
09:35 paul      (s/to/too)
09:36 slef      lucene was never the fasted IME
09:36 kados     slef: that explains it ;-)
09:36 indradg   hi guys
09:36 paul      hi indradg
09:36 slef      paul: on that note, can you stop adding undocumented code to the installer, please?
09:36 kados     slef: do you know of a fast and comprehensive fulltext indexer/search engine?
09:36 indradg   not shut off... IP changed... ADSL
09:36 kados     ahh
09:36 paul      do you think my idea with marc_words should be definetly discarded ?
09:37 kados     not definitely
09:37 slef      kados: I've not used searchers much for years. htdig, swish and glimpse were the state of the art back then.
09:37 kados     but I don't think it's a long term solution
09:37 paul      slef : what are you talking about ? i haven't commited things on installer since months.
09:37 kados     we still would have trouble doing boolian searching
09:37 indradg   kados : http://59.93.166.247/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi
09:37 slef      We may well find that custom searching is needed, but to do that, we probably need to give a search guru a map of the database
09:37 paul      kados :not sure, because we can do join, unions... with perl arrays.
09:38 slef      paul: auto_install.
09:38 kados     if we use a textual database tool that already exists, all we will have to do is get our marc data into a textual format for easy indexing ... it allows us to easily create indexes of anything we way
09:38 kados     want
09:38 slef      indradg: The requested URL /cgi-bin/whereever you want it to go was not found on this server.
09:38 paul      slef, OK
09:38 kados     and it allows us to do complex query syntax without having to reinvent the wheel
09:39 kados     (and it should be faster)
09:39 paul      kados, should I give a try to my idea ?
09:39 kados     sure ... if you get a script to create marc_words I will try it on NPL data and we can compare to Lucene, Namzu, etc.
09:39 paul      like some code to build marc_words table & do union/join search on 2 items ?
09:39 kados     yep
09:39 kados     let's try iit
09:39 kados     it
09:39 paul      ok, i'll give it a try asap.
09:40 paul      another question :
09:40 paul      about argentinian code.
09:40 paul      you've got it isn't it ?
09:40 kados     I haven't heard from emiliano since the last two times I emailed him
09:40 kados     he hasn't sent me the tar.gz yet
09:40 kados     so no ;-)
09:40 kados     I'll bug him again
09:40 paul      ah, ok. I thought he did it.
09:40 kados     you will hear when he does ;-)
09:41 paul      OK, thanks ;-)
09:42 kados     paul, slef, indradg, anyone else listening: what is a good time for a 'bug squashing session' on #koha?
09:42 paul      what do you call a "session" ? a bug squashing like an IRC meeting ?
09:42 kados     yes
09:43 kados     session is 'period of time'
09:43 kados     'where something is done'
09:43 paul      for bug squashing assignment or writing/commiting code in real time ?
09:43 kados     both
09:43 kados     we'll step through each bug
09:43 kados     and decide: hard/easy
09:43 kados     easy ones get squashed in real time
09:43 paul      most bugs remaining are hard one.
09:43 kados     hard ones get assigned
09:44 paul      i'll have some times for bug squashing in the next weeks.
09:44 slef      kados: during work hours ;-)
09:44 paul      thanks to hdl hard work I have some time that i hadn't before.
09:44 kados     slef: can you give me a range of hours that would work for you?
09:45 paul      the problem being work hours are differents between NZ / Europe / America :-(
09:45 kados     right ... well I can work anytime
09:45 kados     so NZ/Europe is the big prob ;-)
09:45 slef      kados: 09:00-17:00 +0000, some evenings 19:00-20:00 or 22:00-00:00
09:46 paul      for me it's 7 => 16GMT
09:46 kados     maybe we can rotate the 'session' times
09:46 paul      (being GMT+2)
09:46 kados     right
09:46 paul      i think an irc meeting for bug assignment would be great, at minimum
09:46 slef      I can try to do earlier (badly, mostly) but would rather not go late
09:46 kados     slef: is that GMT?
09:46 slef      yeah, assignment and bouncing
09:46 paul      (GTM)
09:46 slef      kados: well, +0000
09:47 kados     ahh
09:47 slef      is that GMT or UTC? ;-)
09:47 kados     hehe nice
09:47 kados     lucky bastard ;-)
09:47 paul      isn't it the same thing ?
09:47 slef      (solar or atomic)
09:47 slef      no
09:47 slef      :)
09:48 kados     paul: best times for you (GMT)?
09:48 kados     hdl: you too?
09:48 paul      as you want.
09:48 paul      best between 12 and 16 (GMT)
09:48 hdl       ok. for me.
09:48 slef      brb, navigating legislation
09:49 kados     ok ... so 15:00 GMT would work for slef, paul, and hdl
09:49 kados     how about indradg ?
09:49 indradg   right now its 0305 UTC
09:49 indradg   since I'm +0530 GMT
09:50 indradg   UTC == GMT ?
09:51 kados     I think so in practice
09:51 indradg   that makes to about 7:30 AM IST
09:51 indradg   works for me
09:55 kados     ok ... I will propose 15:00 GMT for the first meeting
09:55 kados     it's 3am in NZ so I doubt we'll get chris to join us
09:55 kados     so next meeting we'll have to rotate
09:57 shaun     hi slef
09:58 hdl       kados : which day ?
09:59 kados     http://tinyurl.com/chp5t
09:59 kados     Tuesday, May 31 good for all of you?
09:59 indradg   kados, makes sense... rotation of meeting time
09:59 indradg   31st May is good
10:00 kados     good ... that way, probably only one continent will be sleeping ;-)
10:00 kados     for each meeting ;-)
10:00 paul      ok for me
10:00 kados     slef, hdl paul, is Tue the 31 good for you?
10:00 kados     ok good.
10:00 kados     that's quorum then ;-)
10:00 paul      14 would be better
10:00 paul      (I meanla bibliothèque de sociologie du CNRS
10:00 paul      CNRS - UPS 2716
10:00 paul      59/61 rue Pouchet
10:00 paul      75849 PARIS cedex 17
10:01 paul      oups, sorry)
10:01 paul      I mzn 2PM GMT would be sooner & we would have 3 hours behind
10:01 paul      (before dinner)
10:01 kados     so 14:00 GMT?
10:01 kados     on Tue 31?
10:01 paul      if OK for other, then OK for me.
10:01 hdl       ok
10:02 kados     alright I'll write the email
10:02 indradg   ok
10:02 hdl       tx. ;)
10:02 shaun     kados: under which category does the blogging come? just so I know to keep it out of the discussion tonight ;-)
10:05 kados     shaun: I think blogging would be a fine thing to talk about tonight
10:13 slef      kados: I think it works.
10:15 kados     cool
10:22 shaun     just it wasn't mentioned on the agenda, that's all
10:24 kados     shaun: I'll add it
10:24 shaun     great
10:24 kados     shaun: thanks for the catch
10:30 slef      any other RSS for the shared blog?
10:31 indradg   slef, where is the blog being setup?
10:32 slef      I'll tell you once it looks halfway there
10:32 slef      could do with more CSS love than I have time for now, but like all good things, rushed CSS doesn't work
10:34 indradg   right-o!
10:36 slef      hrm, kados's feed is breaking it, I think
10:37 kados     slef: hehe
10:38 kados     slef: what about my feed is breaking it? (is it timing out?)
10:38 slef      it's not detecting your name, for some reason
10:38 slef      doesn't quite break it, but it looks ugly ;-)
10:38 kados     I've got some special chars there ... that might be the problem
10:39 kados     creen chars
10:39 kados     greek chars that is ;-)
10:39 slef      as entities too
10:39 kados     is it the <title> tag causing probs?
10:39 owen      Seems to validate okay (mostly): http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkados.org%2Fcgi-bin%2Fblosxom.cgi%2Findex.rss
10:40 slef      well, minor... mostly it goes "uh, I can't parse that" and drops it on the floor
10:40 slef      it's at the next pass (copying the latest entries out of the cache) it gets an odd display bug
10:40 kados     the <title> or the <language>?
10:41 slef      title, pretty sure
10:41 slef      can you try unicode instead of entities?
10:41 kados     hum ... I think I did and it didn't work well
10:41 slef      really, I should update the parser library on that machine ;-)
10:41 slef      it's >1 year old
10:42 slef      ok, I'll bodge this
10:43 kados     it validates now
10:43 slef      ok, I'll try before bodging
10:44 slef      still broken, bodging
10:45 kados     these are utf-8 right?
10:45 kados     &#x03BA;&#x03B1;&#x03B4;&#x03BF;&#x03C2;
10:45 kados     hehe
10:45 slef      damned if I know. Shouldn't matter.
10:46 kados     I thought they were unicode
10:46 kados     at the time
10:47 kados     slef: here's a chart:
10:47 kados     http://www.theorem.ca/~mvcorks/cgi-bin/unicode.pl.cgi?start=0370&end=03FF
10:48 kados     I'm not sure how to 'write' the numbers (instead of entities) in the html ... do I just do U+03BA
10:48 kados     ?
10:48 kados     erp ... xml
10:49 kados     it doesn't actually print the letter when I view it that way -- just the U+03BA :-(
10:55 slef      tum tee tum
10:55 slef      well, that's not quite what it should be
10:55 slef      kados is now known as "unknown"
10:55 kados     hehe
10:58 kados     slef: with this increased activity, now might be a good time to try to revive your webring
10:58 kados     I'm sure chris would join
10:58 kados     and maybe we could get owen to start a weblog too ;-)
10:58 owen      If he wasn't so damn lazy...
10:58 kados     :-)
11:01 slef      http://www.otherwayup.org.uk/planets/koha/ is the bodgeup
11:03 owen      How can we get it not to show non-Koha posts?
11:03 owen      Is it possible?
11:03 kados     with my blog it is
11:03 slef      non-koha posts?
11:03 kados     and chris's too
11:03 slef      just shove whatever you want into the blog I use
11:04 owen      Maybe it's a question of having each person set up a special feed of only Koha-categoried posts
11:04 slef      I have a koha feed
11:04 kados     http://kados.org/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/blog/koha/index.rss
11:05 kados     that's my Koha feed
11:05 kados     here's chris's:
11:05 kados     http://www.bigballofwax.co.nz/cgi-bin/blosxom/koha/index.rss
11:06 FrancoisL (ouf!) back from neverending meeting...
11:06 kados     hey FrancoisL :-)
11:07 kados     looks nice slef
11:09 kados     it would be nice if each 'different' blogger had a unique background color for their 'title' div
11:09 slef      kados: you can't write html, you notice? ;-)
11:09 kados     slef: hehe yep
11:09 slef      yeah, underlying code needs a rewrite
11:11 slef      I need to add an html parser as well as the xml, as you're not alone
11:14 owen      Strange that some links word and some don't
11:15 owen      (that is, some are displayed as HTML)
11:15 slef      depends if it's valid xhtml
11:15 slef      one in the top post has an unescaped &
11:20 slef      right, sorted out the categories
11:20 slef      I'll add it to the tridaily update
11:23 kados     huh ... it's not catching everything
11:26 kados     slef: I'm using rss 2.0 and chris is using .91 fyi