Time Nick Message
11:35 kados ok ... I'm gonna grab a bite to eat and then crack this renew/reserve bug
11:35 kados cool
11:32 owen I'm flipping through the tables on phpMyAdmin and I don't see it anywhere else
11:30 kados owen: do you know of any other places where there is a frameworkcode?
11:29 owen Great
11:28 kados I'm going to run this on production
11:28 kados cool ... everything seems to be working now
11:27 kados ahh ... just the ones that were added before the fix was applied
11:26 kados I can't delete items either
11:24 kados strange ... on 101 edit items isn't working for me anymore
11:21 kados seems to have run ok
11:20 kados ok ... I'll try that on 101
11:20 owen This is what phpMyAdmin suggests: ALTER TABLE `marc_tag_structure` CHANGE `frameworkcode` `frameworkcode` CHAR( 4 ) NOT NULL
11:20 kados anywhere else?
11:20 kados and marc_biblio
11:20 kados and marc_subfield_structure
11:19 owen it's in marc_tag_structure
11:19 owen No, I must be wrong about where it is
11:19 kados strange ... marc_subfield_table does't even have a frameworkcode
11:18 kados right
11:18 owen so we need to alter the table as well
11:18 kados it's default NULL for some reason
11:18 kados right ... but that doesn't handle the defaults right?
11:17 owen update marc_subfield_table set frameworkcode = '' where frameworkcode IS NULL?
11:17 kados then update all the defaults to be '' for the table definition
11:16 kados change them to ''
11:16 kados we need to find all the null frameworkcodes
11:16 owen Yes
11:16 kados owen: you there?
11:10 kados http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2004/002694.html
11:10 paul what is your filling ?
11:10 kados I'm not sure if the one in CVS is the latest ... I'll check on that
11:09 kados you need to manually fill the leader I think
11:09 kados yea ... I suspect the leader
11:09 paul i've some problems with it with an UNIMARC DB
11:09 paul kados, is zed_koha_server.pl in CVS uptodate.
11:09 kados ok ... thanks
11:08 paul (not sure)
11:08 paul alter table marc_subfield_table set frameworkcode not NULL default '';
11:08 paul nope.
11:07 kados is that right?
11:07 kados alter table marc_subfield_table set frameworkcode='';
11:05 paul as it's really user friendly
11:04 paul you should have a phpmyadmin setup
11:04 kados nope ... because I never understood the syntax ...
11:04 paul but if you don't, you can ;-)
11:04 paul you should have done this before I think.
11:04 kados ok ... should I do a change in the DB structure for marc_subfield_table and marc_subfield_structure too?
11:03 paul to have frameworkcode not null default ''
11:03 paul and maybe a change in DB structure
11:03 paul so "update marc_biblio set frameworkcode='' where frameworkcode is null" should do the job
11:02 paul you're right. You must not have a NULL frameworkcode anywhere
11:02 paul kados, sorry, i was away for a minut.
10:59 slef ooh, I'm still here
10:52 kados paul ?
10:52 kados the 'not null' are blank
10:52 kados 144813
10:51 kados select count(*) from marc_biblio where frameworkcode is null;
10:51 kados 2097
10:51 kados select count(*) from marc_biblio where frameworkcode is not null;
10:50 kados ??
10:50 kados update marc_biblio set frameworkcode='';
10:50 kados to marc_biblio, right?
10:50 kados SO ... I DO need to run another update
10:49 kados | NULL
10:49 kados | NULL |
10:49 kados | NULL |
10:49 kados | NULL |
10:49 kados | NULL |
10:49 kados select frameworkcode from marc_biblio limit 0,20;
10:49 kados that's the wrong query right?
10:49 kados select frameworkcode from marc_biblio where bibid=?
10:48 kados this is in Newnewitem
10:47 kados my $frameworkcode=MARCfind_frameworkcode($dbh,$bibid);
10:47 kados yes
10:45 paul is UNDEFINED shown ?
10:45 paul warn "UNDEFINED" unless defined $frameworkcode;
10:43 kados no space
10:43 kados == at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Biblio.pm line 1002.
10:42 kados ok
10:42 paul (after the ()=@_;
10:42 paul (to see if it has a space in it)
10:42 paul warn " =$frameworkcode=";
10:41 kados Empty set (0.01 sec)
10:41 kados select * from marc_subfield_structure where frameworkcode is null limit 0,20;
10:41 paul insert a
10:41 kados Empty set (0.04 sec)
10:41 kados select * from marc_tag_structure where frameworkcode is null limit 0,20;
10:41 paul nope
10:41 kados is there another one to run?
10:41 kados update marc_subfield_structure set frameworkcode='';
10:41 kados update marc_tag_structure set frameworkcode=''
10:41 kados after our upgrade (after running updatedatabase) I had to run
10:40 paul (did i miss something you wrote ?)
10:40 kados no problem ;-)
10:40 kados marc_tag_structure and marc_subfield_structure both have no null frameworkcodes
10:40 paul (sorry kados, but i' had a deconnection)
10:40 kados (which frameworkcode needs to be set to '' ?)
10:37 kados but maybe there is also another place to run this?
10:37 kados (after updatedatabase)
10:37 kados after our upgrade
10:37 kados update marc_subfield_structure set frameworkcode='';
10:36 kados update marc_tag_structure set frameworkcode=''
10:36 kados you told me to run:
10:36 kados (I think)
10:36 kados I know why
10:34 paul for a reason i don't understand clearly, i think you have frameworkcode set to null
10:33 paul & set to ''
10:33 paul frameworkcode must me not null
10:33 paul nope
10:31 kados when there is no frameworkcode the problem happens ... should I update the bug report?
10:31 kados and that's why it isn't happening to you?
10:31 kados so all of your libraries have frameworkcodes setup?
10:30 kados yay! it worked
10:28 Sylvain bye all !
10:27 paul (filling the frameworkcode with a correct value manually)
10:27 paul and tell me if it works better.
10:27 paul try a $frameworkcode='' just after the my () = @_;
10:27 paul 10¤ that the problem is in the framework content.
10:26 paul but no results anyway...
10:26 paul so, no errors as expected.
10:25 kados error in sub blabla : at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Biblio.pm line 1025.
10:25 kados strange :
10:24 paul $sth->errstr()
10:21 kados Global symbol "$dbh" requires explicit package name at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Biblio.pm line 1008.
10:21 paul on line 1018
10:21 paul }
10:21 paul ]
10:21 paul warn "error in sub blabla : ".$dbh->errstr
10:21 paul or just a } else {
10:20 paul die $dbh->errstr()
10:20 paul but we could.
10:20 paul hard
10:20 paul die errstr is maybe a little bit too hare.
10:20 kados I'm not sure of the syntax to get the mysql error
10:20 kados so we need a || die errstr?
10:19 kados I get it now
10:19 paul (they are filled byt the $sth->fetchrow, and if not, nothing has been found, we have an error that we should trap)
10:19 kados ahh ... it's not == ... so it's just checking we have dbh
10:18 paul yes, after the fetchrow
10:18 kados why would they = that sql row?
10:17 kados tagfield and tagsubfield are empty
10:17 kados if ( ( $tagfield, $tagsubfield ) = $sth->fetchrow )
10:17 kados my $tagsubfield;
10:17 kados my $tagfield;
10:17 kados well here's the problem
10:17 paul (just after the execute()
10:17 paul mmm... look for an sql error ?
10:16 kados it does not show up in either case
10:15 paul (in sub MARCkoha2marcOnefield {)
10:15 paul if ( $record->field($tagfield) ) {
10:15 paul and not after
10:15 paul if ( ( $tagfield, $tagsubfield ) = $sth->fetchrow ) {
10:14 paul you have put the "warn" after
10:13 paul but we still don't have our culprit...
10:13 paul ah... i prefer.
10:13 kados just 952 u
10:13 kados ahh ... nope
10:13 paul with kohafield='items.itemnumber' at the end of the sql request ?
10:13 kados | 490 | a |
10:13 kados | 856 | z |
10:13 kados | 856 | y |
10:13 kados | 856 | x |
10:13 kados | 856 | w |
10:12 kados here are some:
10:12 kados nope
10:12 paul 432 rows ? is it a joke ?
10:12 kados 432 rows
10:12 kados I see ...
10:12 paul select tagfield,tagsubfield from marc_subfield_structure where frameworkcode='' and kohafield='items.itemnumber'
10:12 paul not blank, don't forget the ''
10:12 kados so the problem must be that sql eh?
10:11 kados when I leave both blank I get that error
10:10 kados ERROR 1064: You have an error in your SQL syntax. Check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'and kohafield=' at line 1
10:10 kados what is a value for kohafield?
10:09 paul select tagfield,tagsubfield from marc_subfield_structure where frameworkcode=? and kohafield=?"
10:09 paul try the select manually
10:08 paul and it should not.
10:08 paul but it means the "select" returns nothing.
10:08 kados &MARCkoha2marcOnefield( $sth, $record, "items.itemnumber", $itemnumber,$frameworkcode );
10:08 kados my ( $sth, $record, $kohafieldname, $value,$frameworkcode ) = @_;
10:08 paul should not
10:07 kados but that's NULL right?
10:06 kados so frameworkcode isn't getting through for one
10:06 kados ==> ,items.itemnumber
10:05 paul warn "==> $frameworkcode,$kohafieldname" before the execute
10:05 paul do a
10:05 paul what ?
10:04 kados it doesn't show up
10:03 paul should be better.
10:03 paul (a warn "here : $tagfield / $tagsubfield"
10:02 paul if ( ( $tagfield, $tagsubfield ) = $sth->fetchrow ) {
10:02 paul add a warn "I'm here" just after
10:02 paul sub MARCkoha2marcOnefield {
10:02 paul go to
10:00 paul &MARCkoha2marcOnefield( $sth, $record, "items.itemnumber", $itemnumber,$frameworkcode );
10:00 paul );
10:00 paul "select tagfield,tagsubfield from marc_subfield_structure where frameworkcode=? and kohafield=?"
10:00 paul $dbh->prepare(
10:00 paul my $sth =
10:00 paul means you have a problem in
10:00 paul ok, good news.
10:00 kados 329534 at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Biblio.pm line 1354.
10:00 kados that's this line:
10:00 kados yep
10:00 paul and $itemnumber exists ?
09:59 kados 329534 at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Biblio.pm line 1354.
09:59 kados _r12 at /usr/local/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Biblio.pm line 1353.
09:59 kados _p32009900091087
09:59 kados _dAPL
09:59 kados 952 _bAPL
09:59 kados =>LDR
09:59 kados paul: looks like not
09:59 Sylvain euh, I've to see something
09:59 paul the bibid ? no, it's not in the MARC::Record
09:57 Sylvain a little question : Is-it possible to configurate the framework in order to put the bibid in 001 for example ?
09:55 paul to be sure you have the itemnumber before adding it to the MARC::Record
09:55 paul ;
09:55 paul also add a warn "=>".$itemnumber
09:54 paul & tell me if you have the itemnumber in 952u
09:54 paul warn "=>".$record->as_formatted;
09:54 paul just after this line, add a :
09:54 paul &MARCkoha2marcOnefield( $sth, $record, "items.itemnumber", $itemnumber,$frameworkcode );
09:54 paul and, more important :
09:54 paul # add itemnumber to MARC::Record before adding the item.
09:54 paul between thos lines, you have
09:53 paul the previous line insert the MARC value.
09:53 paul my $bib = &MARCadditem( $dbh, $record, $item->{'biblionumber'} );
09:53 paul the previous line builds the hash with items fields.
09:52 paul my $item = &MARCmarc2koha( $dbh, $record,$frameworkcode );
09:52 paul ok, let's look at Biblio.pm/NEWnewitem... (line 1332 for me)
09:52 kados link = NULL
09:52 kados frameworkcode =
09:52 kados isurl =
09:52 kados hidden = NULL
09:51 kados authtypecode = NULL
09:51 kados seealso = NULL
09:51 kados value_builder = NULL
09:51 kados thesaurus_category =
09:51 kados authorized_value =
09:51 kados tab = -1
09:51 kados kohafield = items.itemnumber
09:50 kados mandatory = 0
09:50 kados repeatable = 0
09:50 kados libopac = itemnumber
09:50 kados liblibrarian = itemnumber
09:50 kados tagsubfield = u
09:50 kados tagfield = 952
09:50 kados oops
09:50 kados tagsubfield = 952
09:50 paul (probably an irc copy/paste problem
09:50 kados ahh ... ok
09:49 kados | 952 | u | itemnumber | itemnumber | 0 | 0 | items.itemnumber | -1 | | | | NULL | NULL | NULL | NULL | | NULL |
09:49 kados +----------+-------------+--------------+------------+------------+-----------+------------------+------+------------------+--------------------+---------------+---------+--------------+--------+-------+---------------+------+
09:49 kados | tagfield | tagsubfield | liblibrarian | libopac | repeatable | mandatory | kohafield | tab | authorised_value | thesaurus_category | value_builder | seealso | authtypecode | hidden | isurl | frameworkcode | link |
09:49 paul sh...
09:49 kados no it's blank
09:49 paul (is it last column ?)
09:49 paul is your frameworkcode NULL ?
09:48 kados paul, is something missing from this line?
09:47 owen frameworkcode is blank by default
09:47 kados yep
09:47 paul (was $u for you in 2.0.0 anyway, isn't it ?)
09:46 paul (it's 9 for me, but can be anything iirc)
09:46 kados looks like framework code isn't populated ...
09:46 paul no, you're right
09:46 kados so tagsubfield should be 9? not u?
09:46 paul misses some sql columns isn't it ?
09:45 kados | 952 | u | itemnumber | itemnumber | 0 | 0 | items.itemnumber | -1 | | | | NULL | NULL | NULL | NULL | | NULL |
09:45 kados we have:
09:45 paul tagfield = 952, tagsubfield=9, tab=-1
09:45 paul 1 line per framework.
09:45 paul should say :
09:44 paul select * from marc_subfield_structure where kohafield="items.itemnumber" says what ?
09:44 kados http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=983
09:44 Sylvain I'll have a look Paul, I think parsing the record will be the solution :(
09:43 kados meaning that it is impossible to further edit that item
09:43 kados sure ... when an item is added the itemnumber appears in the Koha tables but not in marc_subfield_table (in 952u)
09:43 paul (sylvain : Doc/tutorial.html)
09:42 paul could you remind me what happends exactly ?
09:42 kados :-(
09:42 paul we haven't found your problems.
09:42 paul bad news.
09:42 kados right
09:41 paul and nothing except 952 ?
09:41 paul http://marcpm.sourceforge.net/MARC/
09:41 kados we have several 952s listed there: b, d, p, r, v, and y
09:41 paul (some samples to parse a MARC::Record on this page :
09:41 paul sylvain, you should probably parse the record "manually", & recreate it after decoding.
09:40 paul if you get 952 and something else, then you've got your problem !
09:40 Sylvain so it won't be for this weekI think
09:40 paul select * from marc_subfield_structure where tab=10
09:40 Sylvain it's what I was thinking paul, bad :(
09:39 paul kados : you are looking at "mapping", you should look at "tab"
09:39 paul right sylvain. So, no idea.
09:39 kados (where is 'tab 10' in MARC links?) or am I in the wrong section?
09:39 Sylvain yes paul but NEWnewbiblio doesn't take the encoding in parameter afaik
09:38 kados paul: in MARC links, only one tag/subfield is mapped to itemnumber: 952u
09:38 paul there is no way i'm afraid. Maybe you should just create the biblio with NEWnewbiblio.
09:37 Sylvain maybe not clear but if someone understands and has an idea :)
09:36 Sylvain I've a little question if someone has an idea. Right now, I'm looking at creating a biblio from a marc record in the breeding (for acqusitions purpose) . My problem is that I can't figure how to manage the encoding of the record. When you create a biblio in Catalogue section, the marc record is decoded in buildtab and then saved when user select save but I can't figure how to get the same thing without using the tabs
09:35 kados * impossible to modify correctly an item
09:34 kados * "false items"
09:34 kados the result was :
09:34 kados AND there is a bug in checkmarc checkmarc.pl says "everything OK" where it is not
09:34 kados so, he had 2 fields into tab 10 (item) and that confuses Koha
09:33 kados i've a customer that had a problem that sounds similar to yours -- one subfield mapped to tab 10
09:33 kados owen: here's what paul said yesterday to me:
09:32 kados actually, owen is better able to test it since he's been looking at the parameters lately
09:32 kados that's the first bug ;-)
09:32 paul (or is it on top of your list ?)
09:32 paul did you give a try to my item problem suggestion ?
09:31 kados I've got some bugs to look at first though
09:31 kados yep ... that's on my list for today
09:31 paul did you plucene script finish ? could you do some tests ?
09:30 kados hehe
09:30 paul Hi boss ;-)
09:30 kados hi all
09:19 hdl hi owen
09:13 paul 'morning owen.
09:13 paul (hdl, tu peux m'appeler en visio STP ?)
09:08 owen Hi hdl
08:26 Sylvain j'imagine :)
08:25 paul oui. mais en mieux 8-)
08:23 Sylvain comme pmb en fait ;)
08:23 Sylvain ok, opac à la yahoo ça me parle plus ;)
08:23 paul par navigation dans le catalogue, pas par recherche.
08:23 paul sylvain : c'est "opac à la yahoo"
08:07 Sylvain une petite question que je me pose en lisant ce qui s'est dit hier soir, c'est quoi le "foraging opac" dont tu parles à propos du SAN ?
08:06 paul vivi
08:06 Sylvain paul tu es la ?
05:50 michael night all
03:06 Sylvain ah je prends connaissance de tes updates au CVS paul, ça m'a l'air plutot cool sur les membres :)
03:05 Sylvain hi !
02:52 paul quite not enough michael ;-)
02:49 hdl quite good.
02:46 michael your = our
02:46 michael so did your french friends sleep OK?
02:29 hdl hi indradg
02:28 indradg good morning friends
02:28 hdl Je rentente.
02:28 hdl j'ai essayé en même temps que toi.
02:27 paul ("pas connecté" ?)
02:27 paul si tu veux.
02:27 hdl On s e voit ?
02:27 hdl Oui.
02:27 paul hdl, bonjour. Pile au même moment !
21:08 tungsten h
20:39 Genji back
19:57 JohnN night all!
19:13 shaun night all
19:13 shaun *embarrassed, goes to bed*
19:12 shaun *I'm* tired
19:12 shaun If nothing I say makes sense, it's because tired.
19:11 shaun or the same time, ie 9 GMT
19:11 shaun hmm, maybe we can arrange a website meeting for this time next week... we can't satisfy everybody, as always
19:10 shaun ;-)
19:09 shaun *coughs* nerd
19:07 shaun Ben is not somebody who really has an obscure accent... which i suppose means that he has the same accent as me, and he also talks using unnecessarily elongated vocabulary during rational conversation.
19:06 slef http://www.desboro.net/information/language.htm
19:05 slef hey, does Ben break out in dialect? That would be cool. Don't find much Northants online.
19:04 slef (for those abroad, Cornish (Kernewek?) is another Celtic language)
19:04 shaun indubitably.
19:04 rach it's a strange wee set of islands
19:04 shaun that's to the outsiders... kw_KW is the internal code...
19:03 slef shaun: what no kw?
19:02 shaun co_CO is cornwall :D (only means anything if you live in devon, that one)
19:02 slef rach: GB-SCT, GB-NIR, GB-GSY, GB-JSY, GB-IOM
19:02 shaun the code that people use (keyboard layouts, documentation languages etc) is en_GB, same with en_US
19:02 rach so is there a GB-SCO for scotland?
19:02 slef but then again, they label Wales as GB-WLS rather than CYM which I'm sure would be really popular in parts of it ;-)
19:01 shaun cya youbeeh
19:01 slef apparently ISO country code for England is GB-ENG
19:01 slef wow, that was time wasted
19:01 rach well done for making to the end
19:01 shaun lunch time?! i don't have the energy to go upstairs to bed :\
19:01 youbeeh bye all. thanks for all... i'll write an email to the list hopping your help for my koha 2.2 z3950 problem.
19:00 rach mmm lunch time
19:00 rach a few will be - our lot are all back to work, so they'll see stuff that goes by
19:00 shaun how many people here are still observing the meeting?
18:59 Nick over and out.
18:59 Nick good to make it, fun as always/thanx all.
18:59 rach see ya nick
18:59 Nick have fun all.
18:59 shaun bye nick
18:58 shaun i was up at 4:00 in the morning once on #... the next day in school was mildly amusing
18:58 Nick g'bye all... also should go.
18:58 Nick gnight in'
18:57 rach poor indragd - it's 5.30am for him
18:57 Nick oh dear.
18:57 shaun bye
18:57 chris cya indradg
18:57 russ ah note very daytona like then
18:57 shaun hehe
18:57 indradg well ppl... will see u all later... need some shut-eye now!
18:57 chris so a station wagon :)
18:57 chris subaru forester
18:56 Nick also, no additional lives in real physics.
18:56 shaun great...
18:56 rach Back to random chatting :-)
18:56 Nick indeed.
18:56 rach Meeting officially Done
18:56 Nick game physics I will note different from real physics.
18:56 shedges cya, all
18:56 rach yep
18:55 Nick wait: arcade game?
18:55 Nick that's here....
18:55 shedges wow, what a meeting...
18:55 Nick ? Daytona?
18:55 chris at university
18:55 shaun oh dear... 'tis my recital tomorrow...
18:55 slef shaun: I know. The codes are odd, if I remember correctly.
18:54 chris ill have you know i was the champion of Daytona at the Fitz (student pub) when i was university
18:54 Nick why?
18:54 Nick also, not unusual for techie types to Drive Fast.
18:54 Nick I think someone mentioned it once maybe.
18:54 rach have you seen chris drive then nick?
18:54 rach sleep
18:54 Nick (fear for Wellington's citizenry)
18:54 rach hope you don't have to start work in an hour or so indrag, and get some leep
18:54 kados have fun
18:54 shaun never heard of "Great England" slef...
18:53 chris i gotta go test drive a car
18:53 chris yep me too
18:53 kados well unless there's anything else pressing I'm gonna jet
18:53 indradg hmmm ... LC_LOCALE=C ? ;)
18:53 Nick er httpd.conf
18:53 slef depends if you believe in "Britain"
18:53 Nick ie differentiated fonts/text style for snippets from apache.conf etc.
18:53 shaun GB
18:53 slef I suspect it's GE
18:52 shaun en_GB
18:52 Nick we might also try to agree on (rough) styles for technical stuff.
18:52 shaun ok
18:52 Nick incidental item:
18:52 kados let's stick with en_EN for thw whole site
18:52 chris yep
18:52 Nick (...thinking of early versions of the FAQ, which blended all over the place)
18:52 rach :-)
18:52 kados hehe
18:52 chris thats a fair goal
18:51 slef kados: 4 centuries out of date!
18:51 Nick could we at least shoot for consistent in the same page :)
18:51 shaun how about keeping maori words in <i> or <em>?
18:51 slef depending whether you believe the old farts at the OED or not
18:51 chris in
18:51 kados it's elegent
18:51 chris cept when we slip maori words
18:51 slef then again, stuff like s and z is a dispute in England anyway
18:51 kados I think that's true
18:51 kados yep
18:51 shaun favorite/favourite etc
18:51 chris for the most part
18:50 rach Pat used to think that the Americans liked the English spelling
18:50 chris en_EN
18:50 shaun what do you use in nz?
18:50 chris i dont mind either
18:50 kados hehe
18:50 shaun kados: maybe you're going to die... :D
18:50 indradg lol
18:50 kados but I use spellcheck for everything but IRC
18:50 kados well I can't spell to save my life
18:49 shaun go for commonwealth, +1 to slef
18:49 slef consistently en_EN ;-)
18:49 kados hehe
18:49 chris :)
18:49 chris consistent ?
18:49 kados I don't have a preference which we pick
18:49 kados looks more professional that way
18:49 kados it would be nice if we were consistant
18:49 kados Nick: good point nick
18:49 Nick as in US-English vs Commonwealth.
18:49 Nick spelling!
18:48 Nick important note:
18:48 rach and then add colours etc
18:48 rach to get the style and the content correct
18:48 shaun yes, i will send a message out to the mailing list tomorrow
18:48 rach shaun - when we do design here we start with black and white
18:48 shaun heh, i laugh at the oo.o website people now... look how it turned out... urgh!
18:48 slef chris++
18:47 slef (moderated channel and then hand out +v to the person/people with the floor, opening it again as needed)
18:47 chris shaun i suggest you organise a website meeting
18:47 rach General Business is basically the opportunity for chatting about anything else needed - that didn't make it onto the agenda :-)
18:47 shaun how about purple for the site?
18:47 slef rach: use +m for extreme cases
18:46 slef shaun: I've tried to get a link for sxw2text on the oo.o site, but nyaaaaaaaaaaargh dead
18:46 indradg rach, hey j/k :)
18:46 rach sorry indradg - it is a bit
18:46 indradg rach, this is bloody endurance test ;)
18:46 rach yes
18:46 slef if we can get monthly again, these should get shorter and quicker
18:46 kados so what exactly is 'general business'?
18:46 rach nite
18:46 hdl night.
18:45 kados hehe
18:45 rach well done all who made it this far
18:45 shaun I feel better about doing the koha site somehow... i was working on the oo.o redesign but they are closed-minded *doesn't have polite word to put here*
18:45 SylvainZZ good night/day all
18:45 rach We are now at general business :-)
18:45 russ yep - slef good idea - i'll get onto it
18:45 kados anything else to discuss?
18:45 slef russ: instructions on the web site and then email the list?
18:45 rach and shaun starting a project for a new site
18:45 russ with a bit of an explanation of what is happening in behind the scenes
18:45 rach alright, so we have russ in charge of tidying up the current site
18:44 slef oh ok
18:44 shaun I plan on doing a total tidy of code as well (XHTML 1.0) btw
18:44 slef udiff against current source? What current source?
18:44 russ um i'll take it as it comes, plain text in an email is fine
18:43 chris russ?
18:43 slef in what format is content wanted?
18:43 slef in what format is koha wanted?
18:43 kados sounds good to me
18:43 chris and lets start getting the content up to date
18:43 slef shaun!
18:43 rach and we'll all pitch in :-)
18:43 rach and lets start a discussion via e-mail - you start it off saying what you want to do
18:43 shaun shout, people ^
18:43 chris if we start sending content to kohaweb@support.katipo.co.nz
18:43 rach Shaun, grab the list of people then who are interested in the website
18:42 russ yeah we prolly need to move on from them
18:42 shaun yeh, same here
18:42 kados IMO the blobbies are cute but not profession al ;-)
18:42 rach ah right
18:42 slef I call it koha world to distinguish from koha france and koha england
18:42 shaun i will uproot them... unless you object, rach! :p
18:42 slef www.koha.org
18:42 russ koha world?
18:42 rach the map slef?
18:41 slef There's just no way to contribute to koha world at the moment, as far as I can tell (not tried new email address yet).
18:41 rach ah that would be me and rosalie - they were used to illustrate a presentation, and kinda stuck
18:41 indradg yes
18:41 Nick the blobbies?
18:41 indradg hey I need to ask this now... who came up with the idea of the "friendly ghost" artwork?
18:41 chris yep thats my biggest bugbear, the blatantly wrong content
18:41 kados yep ... I've had potential customers confused because the official site differs from liblime.com
18:40 russ yep
18:40 rach that is not a defence of the current site, but means we'll all want a say in a new one
18:40 russ a couple years back
18:40 rach so shaun it's a big ask to do the koha website, many of us have businesses that depend on it
18:39 russ and i did the design for the current site
18:39 russ project manager
18:39 shaun russ, what background are you from? library science, programming design, etc?
18:39 rach even if it's just with me :-)
18:39 indradg rach, u rock! :)
18:39 shaun yes, I'll post them up
18:39 rach so do lots of consultation/showing what you're up to before you get heavily into coding would be my advice
18:38 rach I'll come clean though - if I don't like it it won't go up :-)
18:38 shedges shaun, would you be able to post links to koha-devel as you work?
18:38 kados sounds good to me
18:38 shaun I will host the testing site and then transfer it over to katipo to host it (but i don't know who gets credit for it)
18:37 rach shaun you can give that a go
18:37 indradg cool
18:37 shaun I'll do the design and try to implement the blog, and make it good to accompany the 2.4 release with a similar style etc,
18:36 shaun so can we go through and do an allocation of tasks for the website?
18:36 shaun will do
18:36 rach shaun, if you want to do an alternate design just go ahead and do it
18:36 shaun bye
18:35 JYL57 leaving now ! by all
18:35 kados oops ... sorry
18:35 shaun hmm, it isn't that fresh any more though, how long has that site been going for?
18:35 kados youbeeh: where's the actual problem happening?
18:35 JohnN Good evening Paul ;) zzzzz
18:35 russ cool thanks
18:35 Sylvain bonne nuit paul_bed ;)
18:35 rach expected people to change it for their own libraries
18:35 JYL57 russ : will try to write you a few lines...
18:35 rach green - new, fresh etc
18:35 slef Also acknowledge koha-fr, koha England, and any other kohas
18:35 nono I go to bed too, and I promise, next time, I will be more "active" .
18:34 russ and i will make sure it gets done
18:34 shaun jw: is there a reason for green, was it just something you liked at the time?
18:34 russ JYL57 - can you email that to kohaweb@support.katipo.co.nz
18:34 JYL57 Ok
18:34 rach yes that counts as content for me JY
18:34 slef Put some constraints on (URLs stay the same, motifs the same) but redo it all to be accessible and crisp.
18:34 rach well if ben wants to go through and send new content to the address up there that would be awesome
18:34 JYL57 rach, last hint : add quickly new links section with : wiki, kohadocs , really urgent !!
18:34 shaun got any ideas for a concept? basic stuff here...
18:34 rach tahnk you paul
18:33 shaun ben can probably do the wording quite well...
18:33 rach because we'll need that for a new site as well
18:33 indradg g'nite paul
18:33 rach and we'll try and get the words sorted out
18:33 shaun yeh, night paul, thanks
18:33 rach in the mean time the people who know stuff - send updated actual content through to us
18:33 kados thanks!
18:33 kados night paul
18:32 shaun jw: is there a reason for green?
18:32 chris thanks for your time
18:32 chris no problem paul
18:32 shaun yes, but my server is the one in my conservatory, and it's on an adsl line...
18:32 paul guys, it's 1:30AM here. Do you have an objection if i go to bed ?
18:32 rach but I think that it does need a major overhaul, so we should do that in parallel
18:32 kados agreed
18:32 rach we can't just trash the current one
18:32 rach Shaun if you're keen to do a whole new site, can you do that on your own server - seperate to the current site
18:31 rach yes it is on the katipo servres
18:31 shaun rach: is it on katipo servers? can you do php?
18:30 Nick zenlike patience.
18:30 russ you can email them to kohaweb@support.katipo.co.nz
18:30 Nick thick skin also required.
18:30 russ if you have changes for the current website
18:30 russ is set up a queue for hte koah website in the Katipo Request Tracker
18:30 kados it's a big job (as I've learned recently with liblime) there are graphics, text to be written, general design, etc. Are we talking about a whole new website or just some maintennace on the current one
18:30 shaun design is my background, as i said before - I could do a whole site in a style that is consistent with the latest katipo templates or ours (Ben and I), maybe even a blog ;-)
18:30 russ ok so what i have done
18:30 russ yep
18:29 chris so what we want is new site maintainers?
18:29 russ but i think they have fallen off the radar
18:29 rach ah well - we all think that, I want to know if you were offering to actually do it :-)
18:29 russ and they made some changes
18:28 russ who were going to take over the site maintanece
18:28 shaun I want to/would like to... ah, theres a good one "I feel it is in the interest of Koha in general to make a new website" :p
18:28 russ slef - i meet with mikem, fiona and rach p
18:28 rach they made some changes, but didn't make them public
18:28 slef What happened to the webmaster suggested last time, JOOI?
18:28 rach you want to make a new site shaun?
18:28 shedges green even
18:27 shedges (lots of grenn, though)
18:27 rach Koha Website - which is horribly out of date, and lacking in polish, shine, general goodness
18:27 rach OK one more thing
18:26 indradg ciao Genji
18:26 kados Gengi even ;-)
18:26 kados cya Genjo
18:26 Genji k. gotta go. logging. laters.
18:26 Nick wonderful.
18:26 indradg i vote for #koha
18:26 kados Nick: for version 2.2 ...
18:26 shaun kados: they running 2.2, i presume?
18:25 kados Nick: opac.liblime.com and koha.liblime.com should be pretty stable
18:25 kados yea ... this # isn't used that much so it shouldn't interfere to have meetings happen here
18:25 Nick ...remembering instances where we needed a copy to screenshot for documentation and never found a one running.
18:25 hdl demo.koha-fr.org is also volunteer
18:25 rach well - having it here is good, it's logged so if you can't make it/disagree with a decision you can read back and see why people got to where they did
18:25 shaun i have terabytes of space that i don't know what to do with...
18:24 Nick cool
18:24 kados LibLime can host demos if that's what you're asking
18:24 Nick who has resources they can volunteer for loading test copies?
18:24 shaun rach: yes, working group is good imo - how about using a different # to keep it organised?
18:24 rach yep
18:24 Nick maybe premature, but it always comes up:
18:24 kados and each project manager, the RM and the kaitaiki (if she wants) can attend those working group meetings
18:24 Nick randomly:
18:24 rach yep
18:23 indradg yes.. makes sense.... plus the bug triage day
18:23 slef yeah, sorry for drifting OT
18:23 rach and report back or something
18:23 kados exactly
18:23 rach It is, but we will want to have "working group" meetings as well where people can do the nity gritty discussions
18:23 chris i think so slef
18:23 shaun rach: can we arrange a time or would you like to send it out to the mailing list when you have decided?
18:22 slef is kados's monthly town hall a good aim?
18:22 kados indradg: congrats!
18:22 indradg btw... I've completed abt 70% translation (Intranet) and OPAC (complete) for Bengali (bn_IN) will be committing it in shortly... so one more lang for Koha 2.4
18:22 rach yes that would be the plan shaun
18:22 kados hehe
18:22 rach or we need one person with no life who speaks 17 languages including po :-)
18:21 slef I'm finished on i18n. Sorry it's been a bit fuzzy. I'd hoped to have done more beforehand.
18:21 kados I'd like to see a similar structure with template design ... but more on that later ;-)
18:21 rach a pyramid scheme
18:21 kados right
18:21 rach so we need people to co-ordinate the actual translation for each language, and then an overall co-ordinator to make sure that's happening
18:21 kados having one person to oversee the efforts might be a good thing
18:20 kados JohnN: that sounds like a good idea
18:20 slef JohnN: of course. I think this is more l10n/i18n coordinator.
18:20 rach yes that is a good idea JohnN
18:20 indradg hehe
18:20 chris heh
18:20 Nick no, we're all saved. I've seen Chris's spelling.
18:20 JohnN I think that each language should have a coordinator.
18:20 chris yes?
18:20 Nick chris?
18:19 kados :-)
18:19 indradg :)
18:19 rach lol
18:19 indradg I can volunteer... I have been a member of BN L10N project and currently the project lead for bn.openoffice.org project
18:19 slef chris: if no po guru wants it, do you, then?
18:19 Genji woooo.. Koha will take the world by storm!
18:18 chris that'd count me out
18:18 slef all, does someone with good experience of po want to volunteer?
18:18 kados slef: but I think a rough date is 2006-01-01
18:18 rach I think we need a volunteer for translation coordinator
18:18 kados slef: don't have solid answers to either of those yet
18:18 indradg right now Govt of India is considering Koha for 500 schools across India...if that comes thru they will need the support for Hindi along with EN of course in the UI
18:17 slef kados: when is 2.4.0's target date and who is translation coordinator?
18:17 chris its very flexible
18:17 chris i think the problem and the advantage with html::template is
18:17 kados anything more on internationalization?
18:17 hdl very Good, if we²are to work with arabic folks
18:16 slef as I have no good answer to that one!
18:16 slef ok, it seems on-the-fly isn't realistic during 2.3?
18:16 chris good point
18:16 indradg right now.. with the admin-set LANG param its easy to force a new CSS
18:16 indradg this on the fly thing may work for LATIN based scripts... but in case of complex Asian script, CSS requirements may be different (as I noted working with Bengali)
18:15 rach snap
18:15 rach indradg - your question?
18:15 slef indradg: go ahead
18:15 kados rach: right ... as folks come and fade there's no way to ensure that work lasts
18:15 slef (vocabulary, sorry)
18:15 slef Genji: that would be the aim, and to create a vocab for translating.
18:15 rach when people had time to do the translations, and they "lasted"
18:14 rach And I think Koha is changing more quickly at the moment - we had a year or so of it being quite stable
18:14 indradg i have a question here
18:14 Genji so... template files are going to have msgid's instead of actual text?
18:14 rach so perhaps overall complexity makes it harder to do?
18:13 rach 1.2 was quite simple compared to koha now
18:13 Nick (were all of them really fully supported?)
18:13 kados koha 1.2 had like 4 or 5 language IIRC
18:12 kados template designers don't implement the languages into their tempalte would be #1 on my list
18:12 slef Other than that, what do people see as the reasons why translations seem to die away?
18:12 kados though I"m still not clear on the specifics of how it works
18:12 indradg I am wondering what kind of performance over-heads might be involved in a "on-the-fly" process
18:11 kados as long as it doesn't hinder performance I see it as a good thing
18:10 paul as the .po file would be in memory
18:10 slef and would having all libraries supporting all languages seen as worth the effort?
18:10 paul would be OK with mod_perl
18:09 slef paul: is it possible to restructure?
18:09 kados interesting
18:09 slef uh, do I mean msgstr or msgid?
18:08 slef as I understand it... I've not translated as many templates as I hoped
18:08 kados I've toyed with the idea of having a 'programmers' template
18:08 paul we could use "on fly" translating, but with our tech architecture, that's not really possible : means reading the whole po file on each page.
18:08 slef kados: templates are written with the "msgstr" only and any new msgstr are told to translators
18:07 slef and if there's a way of supporting less-used languages directly from that and the po-file, rather than depending on what languages the admin installs.
18:07 kados how would that work?
18:07 slef I'm wondering whether we could aim for templates to be authored in a language-neutral way
18:06 slef Using the templates has the benefit of sort-of caching the languages your library supports
18:06 slef The templates are still authored in native languages
18:05 indradg right on the dot
18:05 slef if I understand it right
18:05 slef and puts it back again to make new/updated templates
18:05 slef which generates a gettext po file from templates
18:05 slef At the minute, there's misc/translator and tmpl_process3.pl
18:04 JohnN good
18:04 shaun i18n is what you mean to say. :D
18:04 rach first is internationalisation
18:04 shaun lol
18:04 shaun yeh, paul, i agree...
18:04 rach yep - 2 topics left
18:04 kados yep
18:04 paul let's go to next topic ?
18:04 paul ok, guys, 1AM here in france...
18:03 JYL57 chris : just a small times factor in fact ! lol
18:03 paul JohnN : really good.
18:03 chris since koha went live
18:03 kados paul: will do
18:03 chris 2138673 issues for HLT
18:03 paul kados : drop a mail to francois laurend.
18:03 shaun _ 'tis midnight, i should be off in a minute
18:02 paul shedges : they will be working with me, of course.
18:02 paul working with ppl without money & contract is strange...
18:02 kados how can we help that process?
18:02 shedges right
18:02 kados paul: right
18:02 paul so they must change their mind & their working methods.
18:02 Nick surprised how Paul?
18:01 chris :-)
18:01 JohnN Paul your you know to Emiliano,, of Argentina, we are I aim to sign a cooperative covenant between the universities of The La Paz AND the UNLP, Argentina and Bolivia Together to improve the KOHA.
18:01 kados I'd like to have regular conversations with the INEO team to find out what their plans are but right now I"m not sure who 'they' is
18:01 shedges Paul, will they be working with you, for example?
18:01 paul my opinion is that they plan to, but they are really surprised by OSS spirit.
18:00 paul and almos 1 000 000 issues a year !
18:00 kados also, another question about INEO: will they be active on the list and in #koha communicating with the general community?
18:00 paul and 460 000 items
18:00 paul shedges : i don't understand your question.
18:00 paul rach & chris : i've met a guy today that is in Reunion Island. He should contact you for some visits. Close from NZ than from France
18:00 JYL57 chris : Angers University means 16 000 students
17:59 shedges Paul, what kind of support will INEO want as they learn Koha?
17:59 youbeeh my job is to install koha in Paris 5 Unibersity. That means that koha is appreciated
17:59 russ new caledonia
17:59 indradg heh
17:59 chris :)
17:59 rach what you want to work on Paul, is a library in Tahiti so that we can come visit
17:59 chris how big is angers university paul? how many students?
17:58 Nick Academic institutions tend to be library leaders in their regions, too...
17:58 Nick nod.
17:58 kados yep that would be huge!
17:58 paul (and an atomic-bomb one if Angers University decides to go with Koha !)
17:58 Nick bravo!
17:58 rach that is big news for Koha! let alone in france :-)
17:58 paul very very big news for Koha in France.
17:57 rach cool thank you paul
17:57 paul that's all about Ineo & San project.
17:57 paul Francois Laurent Contenay, that was with SAN & I in Nelsonville last month will probably be the project manager on the long term
17:57 paul so, in some months, they will probably have a team dedicated to Koha.
17:56 paul (Marseille being the 2nd largest city in France)
17:56 paul or Marseille Public Library
17:56 paul They used to work on very large project. Like Qatar city library.
17:56 Nick (thinking of the place in Africa that was looking at us for their 19 million items National collection)
17:56 paul they will probably answer RFP from Antilles University
17:55 paul (large means : more than 100 000¤ for the project. being a real minimum)
17:55 paul But they have answered a RFP for Angers University
17:55 Nick large means....?
17:55 paul Their 1st contract is with SAN.
17:55 paul they want to provide support for Koha for large libraries.
17:54 paul Ineo is a large company, in France (60-70 employees)
17:54 paul some more general explanations about Ineo & SAN...
17:54 shedges (i've got his e-mail, kados)
17:54 rach yes
17:54 kados right
17:54 paul (not here, as it's logged => trapped by spam bots)
17:54 paul so, give you mails to kados
17:53 paul (francois laurent contenay, from Ineo, should be the project manager)
17:53 nono bien sur
17:53 paul nono, should kados/joshua send you a mail ? or hélène ? or Francois laurent ?
17:53 kados is there a project manager?
17:53 paul most of them have subscribed koha-devel.
17:52 kados who should I contact?
17:52 paul but nothing too specific (ie : everything should be in official Koha)
17:52 kados let's hold off on the specifics ... I'll try to contact SAN and get the ball rolling
17:52 paul ...
17:52 paul * what we called "foraging opac" 2 years before
17:51 paul * search history in OPAC
17:51 paul SAN want for example :
17:51 kados but in order to do that we will need to compare notes
17:51 chris to the devel list?
17:51 paul I can give some ideas on this
17:51 slef fine, suit self ;-)
17:51 chris that might be better in an email?
17:51 kados I think we should try to work together and make SAN's KOha fit within KOha 2.4
17:51 slef <hdl> and functionalities?
17:51 hdl What about the features required ?
17:51 hdl Et les fonctionnalités ?
17:50 paul nono, is that all for you ?
17:50 chris and he will need to talk more to find out what features are needed etc
17:50 chris i think that we will need to give kados some time to think about that
17:49 paul ([OT] meaning Off Topic, Hors Sujet)
17:49 paul (not [OT] at all !!!)
17:48 shaun [OT] how does that fit in with any ideas kados has for 2.4 timeframe?
17:48 paul they already are on the way with migrating their datas (i helped them for the beginning)
17:47 nono not for an administration in france
17:47 rach an auspicious day
17:47 nono we must finish our project for the 01/01/2006
17:46 paul (nono : le planning pour le san)
17:46 kados or at least hopes for one ;-)
17:46 rach nono what is your timeframe for your project?
17:45 slef gavin: bye
17:45 gavin i've gotta hit the hay. hopefully talk to some of you on the dev list in the near future.
17:45 paul s/e/d/
17:45 kados hehe
17:45 paul kudos to slef, this translation was hare...
17:45 slef (now, that should flag translator bias for everyone ;-) )
17:44 slef <nono> Currently, we are getting used to koha, in the mix of free software, of perl... that means that currently we aren't very active among koha developers
17:43 nono actuellement, nous sommes en train de nous acclimater a koha, au millieu de l'open-source, du perl ..... ce qui fait qu'actuellemnt nous ne sommes pas tres present dans le milieu des developpeurs de koha
17:42 paul (to help us developping too)
17:42 slef (I think)
17:42 slef <nono> we are helped by a private enterprise (Ineo) who also put developers at our disposal to help us become developers too
17:41 nono nous sommes aidés par une entrprise privée (Ineo) qui mettra aussi a dispostion des developpeurs afin de nous aider a developper aussi
17:40 slef <nono> I am part of a team of three developers who have the task of adapting koha to our needs (very many of the mediatheque)
17:40 nono je fais partit d'une equipe de 3 developpeurs qui auront pour tache d'adapter koha aux besoins (tres nombreus de la mediatheque)
17:39 slef paul: general advice is to translate *into* your native language, unless there's a special reason.
17:39 slef <nono> I work for a mediatheque network. 6 libraries in the network.
17:39 hdl I do.
17:38 paul (JYL57 is now our french => english translator for this meeting !)
17:38 nono je travailles pour un reseau de mediatheque : 6 bibliotheques en reseau
17:38 paul (ok, i let you translating. I already wrote too much here !)
17:38 paul ;-)
17:37 paul nono, on t'écoute...
17:37 paul (otherwise, you will get 3 lines !)
17:37 hdl ok.
17:37 paul (only 1 translator : i'll do translation)
17:37 nono ok thanks
17:36 paul yep !
17:36 rach excellent idea :-)
17:36 JYL57 nono I propose that you say your projects in French and the french team here (paul, hdl, ... and me! will translate it OK ?!
17:36 rach Nono - this is a bit hard for you I'm sure - would you mind doing us an e-mail in your own time
17:36 shedges can we all read it if nono writes in French?
17:36 JohnN In Latinoamerica many translations they have done itself al spanish of the system, of way disorganized and duplicating the work, identify around 7 lybrari,s university using KOHA.
17:35 shaun Koha in whatever languages there are demands for. How many people is that?
17:35 kados right ... so slef just pointed out that I ought to mention that I can read French and Spanish slowly ... so if you can only write in those languages you can still talk to me ... just slowly ;-)
17:35 youbeeh nice but need a lot of contributors to translate ...
17:34 Brooke How about Koha in all UN languages?
17:33 nono ok thanks
17:33 rach and is putting him off
17:33 rach it is distracting if you don't speak english well to see it all going by
17:33 kados right
17:32 youbeeh Sprechen sie deutch?
17:32 rach OK Guys, You actually have to stop for nono to talk
17:32 Brooke if ever there's a problem word, mail me for clarification, and I 'll give it a go
17:32 slef kados: warum nicht Deutsch?
17:32 Brooke I can't wait for spanish
17:32 kados it sounds like Spanish, French, and English are the major languages we speak
17:32 nono we are working for
17:32 JohnN count with me for the translations of documents al Spanish
17:32 michael babelfish.altavista.com is good
17:32 Brooke see ya owen thanks
17:32 nono ok
17:31 paul nono, you explain a little bit more your project ?
17:31 kados :-)
17:31 kados and folks who are bilingual
17:31 chris :)
17:31 chris and regula
17:31 kados at the very least, we have tools like Google to help out
17:31 kados I think the language barriers should not prevent us from communicating
17:31 paul (in french we say -sorry spanish- : "I speak XXX like a spanish cow", XXX being a language you don't speak)
17:31 Brooke Ego loquo latina :)
17:30 Nick (or so I'm told)
17:30 Nick (don't anyone ask me, either, je parle francais comme un allemande)
17:30 slef ni povas paroli esperante
17:30 kados my french is quite bad
17:30 slef domage
17:30 paul (not really slef ;-) )
17:30 kados non
17:29 slef peut kados parle francais?
17:29 nono soory, for my english : i'm working for Ouest provence and it's very difficult to me to writh quickly
17:29 Brooke hard to find non accented chars on a french keyboard, too :)
17:29 kados of course ... we'd like to get SAN as active as possible
17:29 paul so he will write some lines if you let him do so ;-)
17:29 kados ahh ... great!
17:29 paul nono is a french developper from SAN. A lot of goodwill, but some lacks in english.
17:28 paul please wait a minut everybody...
17:28 kados paul: I will !
17:28 kados I'd like to hear from the SAN Quest folks more ... can they get involved in writing emails to the list and joining us on IRC?
17:28 chris cos i can see it will be a big discussion :)
17:28 Brooke yes, but you haven't said anything not jokingly, so I want some serious clarification. :)
17:28 paul kados : feel free to share some code with me & hdl if you feel overwhelmed.
17:28 Nick Bingo, Rach.
17:28 chris shall we put that one in general business
17:28 rach are you wanting to know if people can donate to the koha cause?
17:27 slef Nick: in what sense?
17:27 kados yep ... well it's better than not having it at all
17:27 owen kados: ouch.
17:27 paul (you should explain what are SAN plans nono : timeline, ressources & maybe some features)
17:27 shaun that's where most of the code that we (in school) are interested in should be coming from - the argentinian stuff
17:27 kados he's sending me a tgz file with everything and I"m going to try to weed through it ;-)
17:27 Nick I'm semi serious.
17:26 Brooke what does joshua think seeing as he's the head release d00d now...
17:26 Nick Is there an official Bribery Vehicle?
17:26 kados I'm the last one to talk to Emiliano
17:26 paul nothing new ...
17:26 nono i'm here
17:26 kados I wish they would be more visible
17:26 shaun what is the status with the argentinian code, paul?
17:26 Nick Incidentally (call it new business).
17:26 paul I think nono should write some line now here.
17:26 slef Careful, I get flamed for suggesting that I can be bribed, IIRC
17:26 kados that's great
17:26 kados paul: yep ... I plan to do that
17:26 paul we have a lot of new features that will come from SAN Ouest Provence.
17:26 owen I don't think we have many Koha coders sitting around looking for something to do.
17:25 owen Yeah, I think bribing is the important step.
17:25 kados find one and pay them ;-)
17:25 paul * who can say "i'll do it"
17:25 chris and bribe them too
17:25 paul * when do we plan to release ?
17:25 rach find one and convince them to?
17:25 chris find someone who is
17:25 paul * ask what we should add
17:25 rach and if you're not a coder?
17:25 kados yep
17:25 paul my opinion on this is that the release manager should :
17:25 chris :)
17:25 chris before the feature freeze
17:25 chris just do it
17:24 rach So Joshua, Paul, Chris as our various release managers, it would be good to hear from you guys, what others can do to get new features into koha
17:24 Nick ditto, Genji, ditto.
17:24 owen Step One: Don't file an enhancement bug.
17:23 Genji think im motivated back into koha, thanks all
17:23 rach 7 - How to get new features into Koha
17:23 paul number 7 now ?
17:23 rach have we mostly covered that already?
17:23 Brooke hooray
17:23 paul only 1 answer : always ;-)
17:23 rach 6 - volunteers needed
17:22 slef cool, that's what I thought
17:22 rach we are on number 5
17:22 Nick http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koha_wiki/index.php?page=FAQ
17:22 slef rach: what item are we on now?
17:22 chris good idea rach
17:22 rach more = move
17:22 rach so if we're kinda done with documentation.... or at least got to a level of detail that we should probalby more on?
17:22 shaun Ben has told me to suggest that the website needs updating... what number are we on now? ;-)
17:21 Nick the wiki is ... hangon...
17:21 Nick There is a fresher, XML'd one in the stuff I've got.
17:21 kados rach: sorry ;-)
17:21 paul (i've plan to add such a link in koha-fr.org)
17:21 youbeeh right : newbees like me always need FAQ
17:21 rach we have "website" as item 9 on the agenda :-)
17:21 chris theres a lot that should be done to koha.org
17:21 Brooke i concur
17:21 shedges wiki attempt sounds interesting, Nick
17:21 kados IMO koha.org should have a 'documentation' link on the left-hand side that links to kohadocs.org
17:21 chris :_
17:21 chris without the \
17:21 rach it is really old
17:21 chris thats the really old one
17:21 rach that one?
17:21 rach http://www.koha.org/faq/\
17:21 chris it worked fine for 1.0.2 ... but that was a long time ago
17:20 Nick (will dredge it up... you want the wiki attempt, or the Really Old One?)
17:20 chris amd we should just kill the quick start installation guide
17:20 shedges Where is that old FAQ, Nick?
17:20 Nick tried to restart that awhile back, fingers froze up trying to shuttle stuff from the mail-lists into wiki while making sense of answers.
17:20 chris yep the FAQ needs a complete rewrite
17:19 shedges JohnN, 'Install Koha on Fedora" gets the most hits
17:19 paul ... is manual installation of Koha
17:19 Nick Steve.... one of the things that is definitely "not fresh" is a FAQ.
17:19 paul Brroke : ok for borrower fine screen.
17:19 Nick Will make CVS sync'ing part of my "weekly or so" routine.
17:19 shedges great? I'd choose one of the install docs to start with
17:18 rach thank you john
17:18 JohnN count with me for the translations of documents al Spanish
17:18 rach start at a bit you understand brooke :-)
17:18 paul for example, in member section
17:18 paul in older sections, there is usually nothing
17:18 Brooke how about I start with the borrower fine screen?
17:17 paul (in parameters & new features in 2.2, everything should be writen & uptodate)
17:17 Nick paul: have been out of loop a bit, may call on you for pointers/what to look for.
17:17 shedges IIRC, the wiki's set up pretty nicely
17:17 shedges we need to add stuff that's missing, correct a few things that have changed since 2.0
17:16 paul if you see "sorry no help", then you've got a page to write !
17:16 Brooke had it, dropped back down to rc4, because I couldn't add biblios
17:16 paul brooke : just use Koha & clic "Help".
17:16 shedges Brooke, have you got 2.2.2?
17:16 Nick that it is.
17:16 paul xmlmind.com is your friend Nick !
17:16 Brooke what piece of the online help would you like me to start with? Koha is a little large ;)
17:15 shedges hehe
17:15 chris :)
17:15 Nick Can't be any worse than hand tagging docbook xml
17:15 Nick I can cope.
17:15 Nick Shoveling the CVS stuff?
17:15 paul easy yes. Boring, for sure ;-)
17:15 shedges (Brooke?)
17:15 shedges Brfooke?
17:15 Brooke it's that easy paul?
17:15 shedges Nick, is that something that would interest you?
17:14 paul copy paste manually !
17:14 paul not really out of date. but uncomplete yes
17:14 shedges how do we get online help from the wiki to cvs?
17:14 shedges good, the online help now is already out of date!
17:13 rach oh good one paul
17:13 paul still to be improved
17:13 Brooke Frenchies speak french?! Oh man, I have it all wrong ;)
17:13 Nick Always!
17:13 paul they have written some onlinehelp on the wiki.
17:13 Nick ...always available for proofing, btw, if anyone is drafting stuff.
17:13 paul some frenchies are working on it (in french for instance)
17:13 Brooke right
17:13 Nick Anything useful I can do Steve?
17:13 slef "if" not "is"
17:13 paul online help maybe ?
17:13 slef Brooke: I mean, is there's no password for viewing.
17:12 shedges great!! anything else for docs right now?
17:12 slef Brooke: password for edit only helps, but means you still attract spammers, as you can help their google ranks.
17:12 paul yep shedges
17:12 shedges paul, you'll start some guidelines for comments?
17:12 Brooke unfortunately, it wipes a lot from Google :(
17:12 shedges OK, JohnN, I'm going to look to you for some translations -- I'll be in touch
17:11 Brooke yup
17:11 chris y
17:11 chris but putting the password on the wiki has stopped it pretty effectiviel
17:11 slef indradg: doesn't work. Also have to blacklist offending URLs.
17:11 slef spamtrapping is a fun arms race
17:11 indradg password protect the wiki?
17:11 chris not hacked
17:10 chris spammed
17:10 rach is that right?
17:10 rach our only trouble with wiki's seems to be they get hacked
17:10 youbeeh me too first time in IRC ;)
17:10 shedges (most be all the drugs in the '60s....)
17:09 rach yep - johns first time in IRC so we'll cut him some slack :-)
17:09 hdl Why not having a wiki page for comments template ?
17:09 shedges deja vu
17:09 slef JohnN: paste error.
17:09 Genji ack, JohnN?
17:09 rach eek
17:09 JohnN <paul> (in a .pl we are supposed to have only 1 function (main))
17:09 JohnN <JohnN> I can help has to do the translator in spanish.
17:09 JohnN <paul> (in fact, stephen, there are 2 different things : .pl and .pm)
17:09 JohnN <hdl> paul sugested that too.
17:09 JohnN <shedges> may I suggest an explanation at the beginning of each function?
17:09 JohnN <chris> not a huge amount, but yes you are right gavin, regexps can look like line noise
17:09 JohnN <shedges> great!
17:09 JohnN <paul> ok, i'll write something, you will be able to improve it
17:08 JohnN <gavin> is there much use of regexps? sometimes it's no harm to comment those
17:08 shedges yep, and most of the old stuff does have POD
17:08 Nick good idea, the template.
17:08 paul (in .pm we are supposed to have POD !)
17:08 rach awesome john
17:08 hdl The best would be to agree on a template for comments.
17:08 slef shedges: I think that would be best as POD.
17:08 shedges great!!
17:08 paul (in a .pl we are supposed to have only 1 function (main))
17:08 JohnN I can help has to do the translator in spanish.
17:08 paul (in fact, stephen, there are 2 different things : .pl and .pm)
17:07 hdl paul sugested that too.
17:07 shedges may I suggest an explanation at the beginning of each function?
17:06 chris not a huge amount, but yes you are right gavin, regexps can look like line noise
17:06 shedges great!
17:06 paul ok, i'll write something, you will be able to improve it
17:06 gavin is there much use of regexps? sometimes it's no harm to comment those
17:06 Nick (defer to him, first)
17:06 Nick (Paul's got the most experience reading what's there...)
17:05 paul * add a comment where you are not doing a trivial thing
17:05 slef Nick, care to draft something?
17:05 paul * use meaningful variable names
17:05 paul * explain what a script does at the beginning
17:05 Nick ie, "always comment the following: SQL, etc etc"?
17:05 paul my opinion is that the minimums are :
17:04 Nick how about some bare minimums?
17:04 Genji slef: ++$s
17:04 slef Sylvain++
17:04 Sylvain koha code really misses comments ...
17:04 Sylvain sure slef but right now we are really far from that ...
17:04 slef shedges: encourage and request. Not sure we can require unless only kados may commit.
17:03 slef chris: I think "$s = $s + 1; # add 1 to $s" is a bit far.
17:03 Nick Suggestions for important?
17:03 shedges shoudl we require perldoc type comments?
17:03 Nick (...proofread everything, the perpetual goal of doc)
17:03 Sylvain translate the upcoming user guide in important languages
17:02 chris you cant really have too much comments
17:02 shedges get some spanish translations
17:02 shedges get some guidelines for commenting code
17:02 shedges OK, goals for documentation:
17:02 Genji oohhh.. i like perltidy. got it open in the other screen.
17:01 chris i think using it for koha is a good thing
17:01 shedges paul, save it in gif. I'll e-mail more info
17:01 youbeeh ok
17:00 slef Genji: perltidy is for perl like indent is for C
17:00 paul youbeeh : no we don't
17:00 Nick Look at the thing @ kohadocs.org (the architectural study)
17:00 Ben byee.
17:00 Ben sorry, I have to go now.
17:00 Nick We have a UMLish thing and some nice pics.
17:00 chris i use perltidy a lot
17:00 shaun koha v3 really should have something which sets it aside technically from other ILS, plus super-duper templates, and advanced (Plucene?) searching imo... that's a long way off, but I don't know what will set 2.4 apart yet...
17:00 paul shedges : could you explain (maybe with a mail on koha-devel) how to add a picture with xmlmind on a docbook document.
17:00 youbeeh do you have something lake an UML design for all the project ?
17:00 Genji perltidy?
17:00 slef What do people think about perltidy'ing the source?
16:59 shedges Brooke: send me pics, I can add them
16:59 JohnN Is the first time in the IRC, excuses by the language, my spek is Spanish
16:59 paul ok, i'll add this to my almost empty (grins) agenda...
16:59 Ben it's not down
16:59 shedges that would be great
16:59 slef Ben, if not, we'll replace it, I expect ;-)
16:59 Brooke Documentation -> More useful with pics, but where would I upload them to?
16:58 Ben slef, ok
16:58 Brooke here's a ?
16:58 slef Ben, koha.org/wiki/ if it comes back?
16:58 shedges yeah
16:58 Nick (wouldn't hurt to include examples with the guidelines....)
16:58 indradg "Koha coding standards and guidelines for contributors"
16:58 Ben ok.. how are we going to host this doco then?
16:58 paul please ?
16:57 shedges want to make some guidelines?
16:57 shedges paul, you'vr been good with your comments
16:57 kados agreed
16:57 Sylvain I really agree with comments, it's really surprising to see the small amount of comments in koha code ...
16:57 shedges JohnN?
16:56 Nick Anyone geek-english/spanish bilingual?
16:56 rach yep good point slef - documentation starts in the code :-)
16:56 shedges yeah, i wonder if someone shouldn't be policing that
16:56 slef (so take that as a beg for good comments when you write new code!)
16:56 shedges they get hit a lot
16:55 paul (& i'm already wondering if it should not be called 3.0 !)
16:55 shedges especially the sysadmin docs
16:55 shedges I think we need some spanish translations
16:55 shaun i was hoping we would be... 2.4 is a major milestone ;-)
16:55 paul (thanks rach to think to frenchies : it's almost midnight for us !)
16:55 rach Stephen, You've been hard at work on the docs - lets move on to them
16:55 slef rach: I like to refactor, but uncommented code is often tricky to be sure about.
16:55 kados there even ;-)
16:55 kados yep ... let's not go thee atm
16:55 rach we'll be here all night otherwise
16:54 rach guys stop now
16:54 paul why ? it's "legal" ?
16:54 slef Ben, please put it under GPL so it can be included with koha later.
16:54 shaun a critical problem with the default 2.2 ones is the number of classes e.g. class="button circulation"
16:54 paul nono => the 5-6 last sentences are important for SAN ;-)
16:54 Brooke I can make little icons with Paint :)
16:54 rach oh - QA, Testing and bugfixing - we particularly love people who like to refactor (rather than code new features)
16:54 Nick (also, on presentation ...let's not forget everyone is not broadband linked ...)
16:54 rach and then he can drag you in for it
16:53 rach but if there is something that is your pasion, graphic design, usability, searching, acquisitioning, interfacing with other systems etc let joshua know
16:53 shaun Keep presentation separate from everything else is what I say - looks make it the killer.
16:53 kados :-)
16:53 Ben anyone wishing to assist me in creating the koha wikibook should do so at en.wikibooks.org/wiki/koha
16:53 rach we will have specific meetings/mail stuff about features etc
16:53 kados that sound good
16:52 shaun Nick: absolutely - could do a lot for inventory
16:52 rach Joshua are we done for now with 2.4 - you want people to add their wishis to your page
16:52 shaun I'll look into it - i have a pda which needs something to do
16:52 Nick added bonus maybe: PDA for inventory/"roving" work.
16:52 rach OK - now is not the time to actaully redesign things
16:51 Genji shaun: any small size screen. think 160 x 160 is the smallest ive come across, for pda's.
16:51 Brooke Yes owen makes pretty stuff.
16:51 owen :)
16:51 shedges hehe
16:51 Brooke stephens $ ;)
16:51 shedges (owen's templates)
16:51 kados Brooke: do you mean owen's templates?
16:51 slef paul: translatabilitification?
16:51 Brooke but if it doesn't work at the end of the day, folks aren't going to stay
16:51 shaun Genji: I can do a PDA one quite easily - are you talking about palm or PocketPC?
16:51 kados good one paul
16:51 Brooke I'm not underestimating it - i know a lot jumped on because of stephen's templates
16:51 paul (does this word exist ?)
16:51 chris good point paul
16:50 paul "translatability"
16:50 Nick *class* is a must. Not that we've ever not had it.
16:50 paul just reminind another important point :
16:50 russ shaun - i agree, in my role as a project manager i see people forgive faults in stuff that looks beatiful all the time
16:50 paul I agree with all of you about beauty, usability & accessability.
16:50 Nick ...no flaming/rotating logos!!! : )
16:50 kados yep
16:50 chris never underestimate the eye candy
16:50 chris im with shaun
16:50 shaun beauty and usability as well - i have a number of experiences where people have refused to use a product because of its look, obviously.
16:49 rach so that you end up with functional & pretty
16:49 russ so that you could have pretty if you wanted it
16:49 paul shaun : i know there are some bugs introduced by my last cvs syn'ch. drop me a mail when you encounter one, i'll fix it asap.
16:49 kados one advantage that owen has is that he actually works the desk
16:49 Brooke That's why I rate DRA over Epixtech :)
16:49 Genji also.. would be good if we could have a template that could run off a cellphone. Or a PDA.
16:49 russ hmm, i thought that was what templates were for
16:49 Brooke function first, pretty is nice
16:49 rach yep us to
16:49 slef yes, this is a problem for me too
16:49 indradg Nick, good point!
16:49 Brooke exactly nick
16:48 Nick accessability is a big one: keep in mind for gov't supported libs in a lot of places, accessability is absolute.
16:48 kados I think the ID should make sure we've got all the bases covered
16:48 rach we have html for the "look" just not the features
16:48 kados there are a few things to think about when we're talking about design: usability, beauty, accessability, standards-compliance, etc.
16:48 shaun it isn't working atm - HEAD has problems, and I will not be updating rel_2.2 as well.
16:48 Genji owen: her designs are beautiful.. but i take a look and think.... how do you do that? Is that possible?
16:48 slef yes, please add me to a UI list, but beware my email address will change soon
16:47 Nick (but you push it with such style!)
16:47 Sylvain with the new screenshot, I support rach for design :)
16:47 owen Problem with you, rach, is you design stuff that no one has coded yet! ;)
16:47 rach snap :-)
16:46 rach and ben and shaun as well perhaps
16:46 owen Okay, and ben and shaun as well
16:46 shaun same here rach - I'm coming from design
16:46 rach I know that both Slef and I have a keen interest in the design of Koha - interface etc, so Owen I suspect you should add us to your wee list
16:46 shaun one of those things that you tap your pda skin with. oh no, that's a stylus.
16:46 paul this word means nothing in french.
16:46 kados :-)
16:46 kados what's a pencil?
16:45 Brooke write? People use pencils?!
16:45 indradg I help maintain planet-india.randomink.org... rss aggregator for FOSS dev blogs of Indian/indian-origin
16:45 kados :-)
16:45 rach Ok so we have some takers for blogs - joshua write those nicks down :-)
16:45 slef Nick: different page style
16:45 slef shaun: I think I can set up email->blog, but I've not got one running at the minute
16:45 Nick different skin?
16:44 slef owen: yes, but with a different skin
16:44 indradg one idea... how abt a planet-koha
16:44 shaun but I doubt if other developers would be willing to maintain their own blogs.
16:44 owen slef, you mean this: http://www.otherwayup.org.uk/ ?
16:44 kados ok
16:44 chris kados: id suggest you send out an email after the meeting, with the roles you envisage
16:44 Ben l
16:44 shaun if we make the blog central (i.e. somewhere on www.koha.org) and give devs access to it, I would be more than willing to contribute regularly
16:44 Ben kados, QA is ok for me as wel
16:44 kados on problem is we don't have docs for how to do QA
16:43 kados the other major thing Koha's missing is QA
16:43 kados so any volunteers for that?
16:43 slef owen: otherwayup is a blog aggregator. I'll call for RSS URLs in a few days, once my email settles?
16:43 Brooke i dunno, a blog would require fairly constant maintenance
16:42 shaun owen: i like that idea
16:42 pate i like the blogging idea
16:42 Genji if you want to advertise it, blog it. Or slashdot it.
16:42 slef Ben, not sure at the minute. One which uses http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TextFormattingRules
16:42 kados I think with a bit more marketing we could draw in more programmers and libraries interested in getting involved
16:42 owen I like that idea, kados. Maybe we could set up a group blog on Koha.org?
16:42 Genji bloggers are all the rage these days.
16:42 shaun ben: private discussion for that.
16:42 rach and I get asked for articles, but I'm not good at writing them
16:42 Ben slef, which wiki would you have me use?
16:42 slef kados: I'll blog and set up a page under Columns on www.otherwayup.org for anyone else who wants to?
16:42 kados I suppose that could fall under documentation but in my book it's more PR or advertising
16:41 kados right
16:41 slef shaun: FDL is a pain for debian, even ignoring the other questions
16:41 rach like stephens diary, but as it happened :-)
16:41 kados an official blogger or something
16:41 kados well ... maybe just a single blogger
16:41 rach we need some people talking about koha
16:41 Nick ...a copy to screenshot helps also.
16:41 Ben shaun, as you well know, I am not going to use forrest. I am attempting in using wikibooks to find a way of easily producing this so it can be shared with others, and collaboration
16:41 owen bloggers?
16:41 Brooke I still get a lot of shock about people that couldn't find either the wiki or kohadocs
16:41 kados what we need badly are a QA person and some writers/blogers
16:41 Nick I can cope with helping format into Docbook XML.
16:40 Brooke I really hope that there will be a very visible link from Koha.org to kohadocs.
16:40 shaun ben and slef: GFDL
16:40 Ben slef, I prefer mediawiki, which wiki did you have in mind?
16:40 shaun ben: it would be good if you could use something like forrest or docbook to share the documentation in other formats, and posting on www.kohadocs.org
16:40 shedges sure
16:40 kados I'd vote that Owen be our interface designer
16:40 kados yep
16:40 kados I assume Stephen will be the Doc manager?
16:40 slef Ben: I suggest writing a free software manual (GPL?) and using a more wiki-like wiki
16:40 rach and forming "groups" around the various tasks
16:39 kados so we need tom volunteers to fill the positions
16:39 rach So joshua over the next few weeks will you be calling for volunteers
16:39 Ben damned mediawiki customisation..
16:39 Sylvain Ben, wikibook and wikimedia projects are great, I don't objet :)
16:39 shedges thanks!
16:39 Ben i.e. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Koha
16:39 shedges no, just share the link
16:38 Ben does anyone have an objection to me putting my doc work as a WikiBook?
16:38 Genji is it possible to intergrate a passworded wiki into koha, as the online help?
16:38 kados not to constrain what can be done ... mainly to make sure it actually gets done
16:38 kados In my vision of the 2.4 release process I'd like to see a 'manager' of each major section of Koha
16:37 Nick I'll try (as usual) to pitch in.
16:37 Genji yup. my org's secretary is harping on about wanting a manual.
16:37 kados Right ... that'd be great
16:37 Sylvain about the projet of kados, searching improvements seems to me an important thing ...
16:37 Ben incidentally, I can do documentation work, in accordance with the first item on that list..
16:36 Genji oh i so love having three screeens.
16:35 kados the second on is the right link
16:35 kados http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.php?id=koha24rmnotes
16:35 kados oops
16:35 kados http://koha.org/cgi-bin/logs.pl?recall=recall&saved_query=Meeting%20Thursday%2019th%20May%209PM%20GMT
16:35 kados Here's a link to some of the features I'd like to see in KOha 2.4
16:35 paul (i don't wish him lot of work : he will have enough without any wishes ;-) )
16:35 Nick (anyone but you, right Paul? chuckling...)
16:34 paul (anyway, i would be very happy to see joshua as RM. and i wish him lot of fun)
16:34 shedges hey paul
16:34 paul hi stephen.
16:34 Brooke yep Stephen somehow finds the time to prettify my babble
16:34 paul (n oproblems, they both are from nelsonville, Ohio ;-) )
16:34 shedges yep
16:34 kados though I have written a fair share of the docs there
16:34 michael sorry
16:33 michael oh
16:33 kados michael: that's actually shedges project ;-)
16:33 hdl But maybe JohnN has sthg to say
16:33 owen I think the position is uncontested
16:33 slef I second
16:33 paul no news from Ineo & no Ineo person present at the moment ?
16:33 rach JohnN - ?
16:33 Genji I second.
16:33 kados I don't object ;-)
16:32 Sylvain no objection for me
16:32 shaun kados.
16:32 JohnN I am carries official voice of the system of Argentina and Bolivia UMSA and BDF UNLP
16:32 rach Joshua has volunteered, is there any objection?
16:32 paul and the winner is ...
16:32 JohnN I am carries official voice of the system of Argentina and Bolivia UMSA and BDF UNLP
16:32 rach Ok so now to the next release - and the first thing is the release manager
16:31 rach excellent - we look forward to your next release :-)
16:31 paul that's all for me with 2.2 branch?
16:31 shaun slef: sorry, I didn't realise that a saved query's "now" was the time at which it was saved.
16:30 Genji looking forward to it. Should get back into CVS, myself.
16:30 paul then, i'll continue backporting interesting features from head to rel_2_2 & fix bugs where needed
16:30 chris cool paul
16:30 paul maybe 2.
16:29 paul I think i'll release a 2.2.3 in 3-4 weeks
16:29 youbeeh thnks
16:29 paul to finish with 2.2 :
16:29 rach SO on to the new release
16:29 shaun youbeeh: be patient, I found that problem... wait a minute and it will start searching
16:29 youbeeh rach > U're right : i'll ask for private conv with brook.
16:29 rach Me
16:29 paul chairperson is rach
16:29 michael Genji: rach
16:28 Brooke this is a koha thing, not an individual user thing. MARC is integral to the project IMO
16:28 youbeeh yes. I've installed koha 2.2 yesterday and tried to connect to z3950 servers to retrive notice but no response
16:28 rach just a reminder there are a lot of us here, some are up late, if you want to have a chat with someone, just start another channel
16:27 Brooke which means your users will be happier
16:27 Genji yup. I prefer non marc... easier to work with perl.
16:27 rach brook & Youbeeh - you might want to have a private conversation about tha
16:27 Brooke MARC has a whole lot of fields and ordinary person wouldn't add
16:27 rach indeed :-)
16:27 kados or unhappy bug hunters ;-)
16:27 Brooke MARC is not that hard to pick up on, and even if you don't know a fig about it, it's a good idea to choose it over no MARC
16:27 rach Ok so it seems like 2.2 then has good uptake, and should have lots of happy bug hunters
16:26 youbeeh Yes, I've seen kohadocs, but i dont know anything about MARC and ISO2709. that's why i'm a little borried
16:26 Tom1243 This is Brooke, BTW
16:26 shaun yes, also agreeing
16:26 Tom1243 wouldn't kill anyone
16:25 Sylvain I really agree with kados ...
16:25 gavin agreed on listing kohadocs.org
16:25 youbeeh Student from Univerite Paris 5 (Paris) in Artificial Intelligence
16:25 kados we need to promote that more on the main Koha page IMO
16:25 kados youbeeh: have you seen our documentation project: kohadocs.org
16:24 youbeeh I'm a student who is trying to install koha for a project
16:24 kados LibLime is running 2.2 for our demos and NPL is running 2.2 as well
16:24 Genji Long time no see, good to be back in action.
16:24 indradg i'm running 2.2.2 at West Bengal University of Technology Central Library, and starting on a branch library as well
16:24 slef I have 2.2 running, but I'm not very motivated (especially not by chocolate: allergic). I think I'm waiting for 2.3 to get a direction to push at.
16:24 paul youbeeh is a frenchie, but who is it ??? (introduce yourself)
16:24 chris katipo is in the process of converting a library from their existing library to koha 2.2
16:24 youbeeh hi everybody
16:24 Genji k.
16:23 paul just a little late bit Genji
16:23 Genji ahh... not late?
16:23 paul (maybe Esiee)
16:23 chris so if you want glory and a mention in the thank you notes .. fix some bugs *grin* most bugs gets a chocolate fish
16:23 paul in france, i think there are no libraries still in 2.0
16:22 rach who else is running 2.2 at the moment?
16:22 paul yes, right, sorry to have miss you in my list.
16:22 kados :-)
16:22 owen kados and I are trying to pitch in too, paul!
16:21 paul I feel a little alone (with hdl & sylvain) on rel_2_2 branch...
16:21 chris even if you cant code, you might have some ideas, feel free to annotate any bugs
16:21 paul yes chris, of course...
16:21 chris im sure paul would love any help solving bugs also
16:21 paul and i also have some nice ideas for a better usability.
16:21 Ben erm, shaun and I have been developing new templates, as you know, but we can't get the Messages box in Transfers to go away
16:20 paul i know i've a lot of bugs in bugzilla to solve. I expect to have some time next week.
16:20 shaun ben: please stop bothering us about that, and it's messages
16:20 Sylvain bug in issues and fine is the one I was talking this afternoon paul ?
16:20 slef Ben: got a bug number?
16:20 paul ben could you remind me what you're speaking of ?
16:19 JohnN Thanks Paul therefore effort, is of great benefit the system in Bolivia.
16:19 paul (most of them will be commited to CVS in the next hours/days)
16:19 Ben when is this bug with the omnipresent Options box in transfers going to be fixed?
16:19 paul * a bug in issues & fine setting.
16:19 paul * some graphic improvements.
16:19 paul * a bug in borrowers joining & expiring dates
16:18 paul * a bug in authorities management (selecting & reporting to biblio)
16:18 paul do you want a list of bugfixes already done ?
16:18 shaun http://koha.org/cgi-bin/logs.pl?recall=recall&saved_query=Meeting%20Thursday%2019th%20May%209PM%20GMT
16:18 paul I already have 3-4 bugfixes for 2.2.3 & some minor improvements.
16:17 paul Still some bugs to squash & some improvements to do.
16:17 paul I've installed koha 2.2 in some libraries now.
16:17 Ben thanks shaun
16:17 Ben rach, so you only have a png
16:17 shaun ben: off irc, i'll send you it.
16:17 paul rach, OK for the recap
16:17 paul JYL57 : we have the same numbers as linux kernel : 2.3 means = unstable
16:17 Ben I think we're naming it in the same fashion as the linux kernel
16:17 slef JYL57: Linux-kernel-style numbering. 2.3 will be the developer edition.
16:17 rach ben I've sent you what I've got I believe
16:16 rach So maybe paul could you do a quick recap now on where 2.2 is at - are you basically installing and bugsquashing?
16:16 paul yes, and /me will be very happy to let someone else go to 2.4 (or maybe 3.0). It's time for Koha to have new ideas & new Release Manager ;-)
16:15 rach and with a new version we get lots of great ideas, and it would be useful to put our heads together as to how we might usefully spread the load a bit
16:15 Ben *light, scattered applause for paul*
16:15 rach I'm aware that Paul had the lions share of effort for V2.2
16:14 rach and a bit more division of labour
16:14 rach and it's great to see such a lot of people interested in the project, I'm hoping we might get some more volunteers
16:14 rob oxford, oh...just being nosey....
16:14 rach as the software gets more mature we have some interesting new challenges to face'
16:13 rach cool thanks slef :-)
16:13 slef I'll continue greeting people in msg, just so people know.
16:13 rach It's been a good year for Koha I believe, with a new version, and new libraries picking it up
16:13 Sylvain great paul
16:12 rach First up welcome everyone, it's nice to see so many names, and from a nice wide range or places
16:12 paul hi/salut Sylvain. Just beginning.
16:12 rach is probalby easier
16:12 rach We have an agenda for today - and we're a big group so if you want to have side coversations just make yourselves a seperate channel
16:11 Ben ok
16:11 rach me
16:11 Ben so, em, who'll open the meeting?
16:11 rach that looks like most of us
16:10 JYL57 JYL57, Jean-Yves France
16:10 rach si is simon here in wellington
16:10 shedges stephen, ohio usa
16:10 rach rachel - wellington NZ
16:10 michael yeh we have 4 people in WGTN
16:09 russ russ, katipod, wellington nz
16:09 slef Can someone stick the log URL on the end of the channel topic, please?
16:09 Ben oh.. so that's where calcutta is
16:09 JohnN welcome ross!
16:09 chris Island bay, wellington, new zealand
16:09 mishadoko Michaël, Hauts-de-Seine, France
16:09 J_Holm I'm from Grand Rapids, MI, USA
16:09 indradg hi... Indranil from Calcutta, India
16:08 kados Joshua, Ohio US (Nelsonville PL and LibLime)
16:08 mishadoko hi [bonsoir] paul ;-)
16:08 slef uh, I was talking to Ben. My name isn't Ben.
16:08 nono arnaud,Istres,france
16:08 Dweezil oops Gavin, Dublin, Ireland (silly nickname)
16:08 paul paul, Marseille, France
16:08 slef Ben, Towcester
16:08 Dweezil hi from Dublin, Ireland
16:07 rach Hokay, welcome everyone for our first big Koha meeting in 2005
16:07 JohnN hi paul :)
16:07 Ben hi paul
16:07 Ben slef, I originated from rushden
16:07 shaun hi paul
16:07 hdl hi paul
16:07 rach hey here he is :-)
16:07 slef shaun: from Northamptonshire, living in Norfolk
16:06 shaun slef: where abouts?
16:06 michael rach: me from here in WGTN (Trentham to be exact)
16:06 Ben shaun and I are from the UK, and it's six minutes past 22
16:06 shaun nvm ben, paul's a very clever person. i get emails before i get things over msn, but maybe that's msn :\
16:05 JohnN ;-) welcome to all
16:05 Ben well, if he's signed in to IRC, he should notice
16:05 rach So where is everyone from - I suspect that indradg gets the commitment award for getting up in the middle of the night?
16:05 michael I thought my normal IRC name wouldn't go down to well
16:05 slef I'd phone paul, but I don't know if his number follows him at night.
16:05 kados Ben: regularly
16:05 kados Ben: I guess some folks are more likely to check email than IRC ...
16:05 mishadoko i'm joking but there is 2 michael this time :-)
16:05 michael :-)
16:04 michael mishadoko: me did
16:04 Ben kados.. how??
16:04 kados Ben: well ... it worked last time ;-)
16:04 mishadoko hi everyone ;-) someone steal my name here -:))
16:03 slef I'm pouring into the beer glass. :_)
16:03 Ben no we're not.
16:03 rach they are pouring into the back rows now :-)
16:03 slef shaun: Google search. Talk after, if you want.
16:02 shaun stop lolling ben, this is irc, we're serious and talking about koha.
16:02 Ben (not literally)
16:02 Ben lol
16:02 shaun hehe
16:02 rach :-)
16:02 indradg heh
16:01 slef rach: French restaurants :)
16:01 rach yep he's here
16:01 chris im here
16:01 shaun slef: which settings are you talking about? i know about the artwork, i have had a dilemma over that myself, but not sure about settings
16:01 owen How 'bout chris?
16:01 J_Holm hi
16:01 slef hello J_Holm
16:01 Ben ah well.
16:01 rach yes, although he's saying paul lunch, which is a bit of a long lunch really
16:01 Ben slef, 1.1 has greatly expanded GUI settings changers, and I don't see the problem with copyrighted artwork...
16:00 rach just sat down
16:00 slef Uh, is kaitiaki here?
16:00 slef as in free software. Firefox as shipped contains uneditable artwork, trademarks and settings
16:00 shaun ooh, it's just flicked over to 9PM GMT - *itching to start*
16:00 slef shaun++
16:00 Ben why is it not free as in freedom?
15:59 shaun not as in freedom.
15:59 Ben it IS free
15:59 slef Ben: no, just a local mod of firefox to make it free ;-)
15:59 Ben slef, netscape 8?
15:58 tholbroo good afternoon
15:57 slef hello tholbroo
15:57 slef shaun: it's a firefox-based browser.
15:57 slef yay, terry wogan is answering the phone votes
15:56 shaun slef: would that be firefox? i use dict.die.net for all my "serious" word searching...
15:55 indradg slef, palletize allethrin
15:54 shaun second. most. useful. dictionary. ever. after http://www.4rthur.com/dict.php that is
15:53 indradg slef, lol
15:53 slef indradg: napalm?
15:53 indradg 5 more minutes to go... damned mosquitoes eating me up alive!
15:51 JohnN thanks :slef
15:51 shaun ah... lol
15:50 slef go look it up on foldoc.org
15:50 shaun what's a LART?
15:49 shaun ah, *nitmf.toflas* ;-)
15:49 slef I don't use many, but I'm lazy on the socialities.
15:49 Ben 10 mins left yet, slef
15:48 slef shaun: welcome back
15:48 slef JohnN: ah, right. We're waiting a few minutes until the meeting starts, then it will proceed something like a real-space meeting.
15:48 Ben welcome back
15:48 shaun (slef: what does wb mean?)
15:48 slef Ben: expensive
15:48 michael opps forgot about that
15:48 JohnN is my first experience in the IRC
15:47 slef wb shaun
15:47 slef erm, hello ki11er?
15:47 Ben told you it was 10pm
15:47 Ben hi shaun..
15:47 shaun hi ben, everyone else, i'm back.
15:47 Ben however, satellite connections are expensive, and I really hate flicking through close to 500 channels I don't have to get something interesting.. most of the time I just watch the BBC channels or C4 (no Five here either)
15:46 Ben mmm.
15:45 slef Ben: not got full freeview/DTT here without new aerials, amplifiers and so on. Cheaper to get satellite. Not even got clear national FM or AM station reception, though. :-/
15:44 Ben http://www.freeview.co.uk/cgi-bin/postcode/postcodesearch?postcode=pl22+0ab
15:44 alaurin hi
15:44 Ben hmm.. E4 is coming to freeview soon
15:44 slef hi alaurin
15:44 slef JohnN: of what?
15:44 slef I plan to replace the satsys with a PVR, but everything else gets done first ;-)
15:43 JohnN Which is the objective?
15:43 Ben oh yes.. and as a resident of a deep Cornish valley, freeview is not yet available to me, despite the analogue transmitters being turned off soonish
15:43 JohnN the theme is interesting
15:43 slef ah, I prefer to avoid Murdoch and remember Hillsborough
15:42 Ben I already have sky digital, but the telly connected to it is displaying something decent atm
15:42 Ben #
15:42 slef if you're interested in going digital
15:41 slef 70 quid on Monday from www.lidl.co.uk
15:41 Ben lol
15:40 Ben I don't have freeview; plus, the only decent music ever on Eurovision was ABBA in the late 70s
15:39 slef Ben: Eurovision on BBC 3
15:39 Ben I got the time right, then - :P to shaun
15:39 slef Ben: UTC not BST.
15:39 Ben ah.
15:38 owen We're not starting for another 20 minutes or so
15:38 Ben sorry I'm late: I wasn't sure of the time, and Dead Ringers (satirical comedy show) was on.
15:38 Ben hi slef..
15:38 slef Hello Ben.
15:27 slef (BBC3/NDR/SLO2 and all good national broadcasters)
15:24 owen It was a lot of fun.
15:23 kados ahh ... how was it?
15:23 owen Not this time. It was George Lucas.
15:23 kados :-) little one keeping you up again?
15:22 owen If I could be enjoying anything besides work, it would probably be a nap!
15:18 slef Are we all enjoying the Eurovision semi-final?
15:18 kados hi slef
15:17 slef hihi
15:17 JohnN hello
15:17 shaun hi all, i'll be back at GMT 8:50, going to get some work done before the meeting
15:15 rach hello
15:08 christian Good afternoon to all.
15:06 shaun hi owen, all
15:06 owen welcome, shaun
15:05 Sylvain I think I'll go further because it seems to be a real problem to our customer
15:05 owen It's one of those aspects of Koha that have the potential of being useful but hasn't been expanded upon.
15:05 Sylvain yes, when you load user infos, I think it should be possible to check the date and write if needed
15:04 Sylvain it's remark a customer made to me and I think he's right, it's a problem not to see clearly the member has 'expired'
15:04 owen True...so you'd either have to set some kind of flag in the patron record, or just do the expiration check every time you loaded a patron record.
15:04 Sylvain but he knows it
15:04 Sylvain then the librarian does what he wants
15:04 Sylvain owen, you at least write on circulation screen that the user account has expired
15:04 owen There isn't any built-in status to flag a user as expired.
15:03 owen Sylvain, it should be possible to write a script that checks the expiration date of users and then...does something. You could put it in cron and run it regularly. But then the question is, what do you do with expired users?
15:03 JYL57 Ok but the "join date" is stored so ?!
15:03 Sylvain yes, you should write a script to update it with first issue, sure
15:03 Sylvain but in reality, it remains blank
15:02 Sylvain where you should have join date and expiry date
15:02 Sylvain on the members info page, there's a line like ", expiry "
15:02 JYL57 I have more than 250 members now. Any timestamp available to determine when they became member ?!
15:02 Sylvain and I also think that there's no notification when the expiry date of a user has passed ...
15:01 Sylvain one other pb with members is that no account line is created for the fee when you create a member
15:00 Sylvain but Paul told me this afternoon (for us) that he had fixed it
15:00 Sylvain in fact when you create a member, its expiry date isn't set
15:00 JYL57 Can you confirm/explain ?
15:00 JYL57 Sylvain, I read the IRC log to discover that member creation didn't update "creation date" or something like that ?!
14:58 owen Hi Sylvain
14:58 JYL57 Hello Sylvain
14:58 Sylvain many ppl there :)
14:58 Sylvain hi all !
14:24 owen kados: what'd you think of rachel's search suggestions?
14:17 JYL57 hello owen
14:17 owen Hi kados, JYL57
14:09 JYL57 hello