Time Nick Message 12:02 hdl which problem is yours ? 12:03 kados when we add an item to a biblio the itemnumber shows up in Koha tables but NOT in marc_subfield_table 12:03 kados we also have a renewal bug 12:03 kados items are allowed to renew even when there is a reserve on the account 12:09 hdl It looks like my bug : Items in kohafield are not filling Marc_subfield_table. 12:10 hdl So you can see them when searching, but cannot view their details. 12:19 indradg hi all... back here after quite a while... anyone around? 12:22 hdl yes, but busy with a big black and furrious bug hunt. 12:23 indradg hdl, any pre-set agenda for the next online meet? 12:24 owen Choosing a new release manager will be the biggest item 12:24 hdl Is the choice still to be made ? 12:25 owen Yes. We don't really have a pre-existing system for choosing a release manager, so I think we'll rely on getting a consensus at the IRC meeting 12:27 hdl the concensus will hopefully be quite easy to get ;) 12:28 indradg hdl, should be... kados is a good choice :) 12:30 hdl We also think so. :) 12:31 hdl But the features improvement in 2.4 will certainly be extraordinary. 12:31 indradg drat! the meeting start time is 2:30 AM Calcutta time!!! 12:32 indradg how lovely ;) 12:32 hdl 11 PM French time :( 12:33 hdl But you got the worst ;) 12:33 indradg heh 13:01 hdl bye 14:41 owen hi tim 14:56 pate-work hi tim 14:57 tim hi everyone 14:58 indradg hi tim 15:52 chris morning 16:06 owen Hey chris, I didn't see you come in. 16:40 rach hello 16:43 kados hi all 16:43 owen kados, you've been a stranger lately. 16:44 owen Been busy? 16:44 kados well ... yesterday I was in bristolville 16:44 kados presenting Koha 16:44 owen Oh, cool--how'd it go? 16:44 kados today I spent most of the day recovering from the driving and the all nigher I pulled on sunday 16:45 kados now I'm ready to get back to work k;-) 16:45 kados it went pretty good 16:45 kados the staff loved the idea of open source and loved the current functions in Koha 16:45 kados better than the TLC system they had seen just a week ago 16:45 kados but ... 16:46 owen I had a feeling a but was coming 16:46 kados it looks like Bristolville won't spend any more than they are currently paying 16:46 chris theres always a but 16:46 kados ($800 per year for Follett) 16:46 kados yep 16:46 owen $800 per year?! What do they get with that, pencil and paper? 16:47 kados The director spun it like the State was going to pick up the whole tab 16:47 chris and the state wasnt aware of that fact? 16:47 kados but when I actually spoke with Jo Budler she said that she told him she could only sponser a multi-library installation 16:47 kados the director is a bit of a yahoo 16:47 kados :-) 16:48 kados former lawyer 16:48 chris thats a shame 16:48 kados yea ... well the good news is that there was another library there that looked interested in Koha 16:48 kados so if that library ends up wanting to switch that would make it possible for the state to sponser it 16:48 kados but I'm not getting my hopes up too much 16:49 kados the Follett system is pretty shoddy 16:49 kados staff was really impressed with all the stuff we do with Koha's OPAC 16:50 kados they also liked the idea of being able to sponser features that they wanted 16:50 owen They must be living in the dark ages 16:50 kados yep 16:51 kados well it was good practice before we go to ALA 16:52 kados I've got a better idea of the kinds of questions that folks will ask 16:52 chris its suprising how many ILS's are really really bad 16:52 chris kados: i played with plucene a bit last night 16:52 kados sweet! 16:52 kados how do you like it? 16:52 chris got a script called indexer.pl 16:53 kados cool 16:53 chris that querys the db, does a select * from biblio 16:53 chris and builds an index of that 16:53 kados excellent 16:53 chris just title and author so far 16:53 chris i reckon its gonna be the way to do it 16:53 kados I think the best table to use would be marc_word 16:53 chris yep 16:53 chris the way i see it 16:54 chris use marc_word for keyword search 16:54 chris but we dont have to just build one index 16:54 chris we can build author_index 16:54 chris subject_index 16:54 chris etc 16:54 chris so if someone wants to search just the authors 16:54 chris we just use that index 16:54 kados right ... the trick will be getting ALL the relevant subject author etc data 16:55 kados I think we'll need to use the marc tables to do that 16:55 chris really? 16:55 kados yep ... for example 16:55 kados take subject 16:55 chris biblosubject should contain it all 16:55 kados currently, NPL's subjects are strewn across all the 600s 16:55 chris ahh 16:55 kados and bibliosubject only contains one entry 16:56 kados same applies with author 16:56 chris right thats broken 16:56 kados and title even (with subtitle, etc) 16:56 chris building the indexes from the marc tables wont be so bad, just slower 16:56 kados IMO the whole point of using Lucene would be that we could search on full-text marc records 16:56 kados and we could 'tag' fields that go together 16:57 chris yep 16:57 kados and we could assign different weights to different tags 16:57 kados for relevance sorting 16:57 chris yep 16:57 kados so 600a gets priority over 630a 16:57 kados say 16:57 chris ud have to let the library do that 16:57 kados we'd have to take that up with a cataloger 16:57 kados yep 16:58 chris id also like a simple interface to it too 16:58 kados without holdings data? 16:58 chris for all the special libraries 16:58 kados ahh 16:58 chris who dont know/care about marc 16:58 kados right ... that makes sense 16:59 kados maybe we should start thinking about branching Koha 16:59 kados marc and non-marc 16:59 chris i dont think we need to 16:59 kados from a support perspective it's alot easier to get a non-marc library up than a marc library 16:59 chris its all just interface :) 17:00 kados true ... 17:00 chris if you have marc=off set u should just not see marc 17:00 chris even tho its all still there in the background 17:00 rach the people who don't want marc are not "religious" about it in the way that people who do want it can be :-) 17:00 rach they just don't like being confused 17:00 kados hehe that's true 17:01 chris i think 2.4 is our chance to tidy up the interfaces 17:01 kados so maybe we need to think about two interfaces 17:01 kados too bad owen just left 17:01 rach and they like the idea that they *could* go to it if they got a zealot in their own org 17:01 kados right ... good thinking 17:01 chris it mostly works now, if you swithc marc off, you can pretty much not see it 17:02 chris its just making mostly=all :) 17:02 kados :-) 17:02 chris exciting times 17:02 chris i think plucene will rock 17:02 chris its hella fast 17:02 kados great ... I'm glad 17:03 kados do you think you can have a demo ready for tomorrow? 17:03 chris and with Text::Context 17:03 kados really basic demo? 17:03 chris ill have a go tonight 17:03 kados sweet .. let me know if you want huge ammounts of data 17:03 chris ill use hlt's 17:04 chris it will be a basic demo, just title and author 17:04 chris cos that i can do easily 17:04 kados ok ... I've already got a collection of relevant MARC21 tags 17:04 chris cool 17:04 kados if you send me your indexer.pl I can see about getting it working with our marc_word table 17:05 chris its very small :) 17:05 kados yea? 17:06 chris !/usr/bin/perl -w 17:06 chris 17:06 chris use lib '/usr/local/koha/intranet/modules'; 17:06 chris use strict; 17:06 chris use Plucene::Simple; 17:06 chris use C4::Context; 17:06 chris my $dbh=C4::Context->dbh(); 17:06 chris 17:06 chris my $query="SELECT * FROM biblio"; 17:06 chris my $sth=$dbh->prepare($query); 17:06 chris 17:06 chris 17:06 chris $sth->execute(); 17:06 chris my $index = Plucene::Simple->open( "/tmp/plucene" ); 17:06 chris while (my $data=$sth->fetchrow_hashref()){ 17:06 chris my %biblio; 17:06 chris $biblio{'title'}=$data->{'title'}; 17:06 chris $index->add( $data->{biblionumber} => \%biblio ); 17:06 chris } 17:06 chris $index->optimize; 17:06 chris done :) 17:06 kados hehe 17:06 kados sweet 17:06 chris you make the %biblio contain more data 17:06 kados right 17:06 chris to index more tags basically 17:07 kados yep ... I'll index by marc tag 17:07 chris and search.cgi 17:07 chris #!/usr/bin/perl 17:07 chris 17:07 chris use strict; 17:07 chris use Plucene::Simple; 17:07 chris use CGI; 17:07 chris 17:07 chris my $cgi=new CGI; 17:07 chris my $query=$cgi->param('query'); 17:07 chris 17:07 chris my (@ids, $error); 17:07 chris if (!$query) { 17:07 chris $error = "Your search term was empty"; 17:08 chris } else { 17:08 chris my $index = Plucene::Simple->open("/tmp/plucene/" ); 17:08 chris @ids = $index->search($query); 17:08 chris # print @ids; 17:08 chris 17:08 chris } 17:08 chris so i could go ./search.cgi query=fish 17:08 chris just to see if it was working 17:08 chris ./search.cgi query=fish 17:08 chris 17379 17:09 kados right ... sweet 17:09 chris the trick is making a nice results page 17:09 kados so how big is the index file? 17:09 chris i only indexed the katipo staff koha 17:09 chris (which is our document manager) 17:10 kados well ... for us, the bulk of a query is mysql geting lists of bibids (2-15 secs) 17:10 chris 68k 17:10 chris theres only about 200 biblios tho, ill try on a bigger database after work 17:10 kados sweet 17:10 kados http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2004/02/19/plucene.html 17:10 kados seen that article? 17:10 chris ye[ 17:11 chris thats what gave me the text::context idea 17:11 chris imagine 17:11 kados that's the one I was using to build my indexer ... well what i as using 17:11 chris http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=93335 17:11 chris with ur search terms highlighted 17:12 chris we'd own :) 17:12 kados yep! 20:52 kados indexer still running on my 3000 biblios 20:52 kados 300,000 that is ;-) 20:52 kados i wonder if there is a way to update an index without rerunning it all the way through 20:53 chris bound to be 20:54 chris are u using plucene::simple? 20:54 kados though we may need to build our own engine 20:54 kados yep 20:54 chris yeah, its good for a proof of concept 20:54 kados yep 20:54 chris but to do all the fancy ranking and analysis we'll need to build our own 20:55 chris that'll be the fun bit :) 20:55 kados yea ... /me is really looking to that project 20:55 kados looking forward that is ;-) 20:55 chris how big is the index so far? 20:55 kados it's really going to be great! 20:56 rach have we got any klingon translaters :-) 20:59 chris it has some neat stemming, but not for klingon i dont think, french, english, german and spanish 20:59 kados chris: something strange is happening ... I've got a bunch of directories in tmp 4ZRJOqXUSm 20:59 kados stuff like that 20:59 kados I assume that's the index categorizing things 20:59 chris where did you chose for ur index to live? 20:59 kados /tmp 21:00 chris id put it in /tmp/plucene or something .. those 4ZRJOqXUSm arent to do with plucene 21:01 kados what are they? 21:01 kados scratch file? 21:01 chris i think mysql scratch files 21:01 chris or apache ones 21:01 chris hmm or they may be plucene scratch files i guess 21:02 chris my actual index files look like 21:02 kados du -cks -h 21:02 kados 3.0M . 21:02 kados 3.0M total 21:02 chris _819.f1 _819.f3 _819.f5 _819.fdx 21:02 kados yea ... mine too 21:03 chris be interesting to see how big it ends up ... do you have any kinda counter going? 21:04 chris ie, do you know how far thru you are? 21:05 kados nope ... should have set that up 21:06 chris hindsight is a wonderful thing :) 21:06 kados :-) 21:07 kados well ... we could actually estimate it 21:07 kados I've gotten three uninitialized values errors sofar 21:07 kados so we could query for null entries 21:08 chris yep 21:10 kados 44 rows where title is null (assuming that was what was causing theerroor) 21:10 chris im guessing so 21:11 chris null titles 21:11 chris that just seems wrong 21:11 chris we should add on to the reports section a way to query the database for stuff like that 21:12 chris so that the librarians can check their data for mentalness 21:12 kados yep 21:12 kados I think it was probably a layover from our last system 21:12 kados (before spydus that is) 21:12 chris yep 21:12 kados all the really strange database stuff is follett 21:13 chris follett seem to do some weird things 21:13 kados (which incidentally is the same system that Bristolville has now ) 21:13 kados yea 21:13 chris you know the more i think about plucene the more i like it 21:13 kados :-) 21:13 chris since it can effectively be added on 21:14 kados I'm glad I'm not the only one 21:14 chris without needing to bust things 21:14 kados just think how many other things we can search on too 21:14 kados like adding any textual datbase 21:14 chris yep 21:14 kados dmoz for instance 21:14 chris yep 21:14 kados we could easily create a liboogle 21:14 chris :) 21:15 kados or what I'd call the metavore 21:15 kados metavore.com 21:15 chris what i like 21:15 chris is that if we build an interface to it 21:15 chris we allow libraries to design their own search 21:15 chris or searches 21:15 kados yep 21:16 chris say you have a collection your proud of 21:16 chris you can build an index of just that collection 21:16 kados you can give it priority 21:16 chris and highlight it 21:17 chris i see greenstone are using lucene now 21:18 kados yep ... maybe we can nab some ideas from them 21:18 chris itd be good to get a library using both 21:19 kados I wish NPL had some reason to use greenstone ... I'd love to use it 21:22 kados our adwords: 21:22 kados Keyword Status Clicks Impr. CTR Avg. CPC Cost Avg. Pos 21:22 kados koha Normal 12 872 1.3% $0.05 $0.60 1.1 21:22 kados software library management Normal 10 494 2.0% $0.33 $3.28 7.8 21:22 kados library automation Normal 7 1,075 0.6% $0.25 $1.75 5.4 21:22 kados free library software Normal 7 580 1.2% $0.31 $2.13 7.6 21:22 kados open source library Normal 5 293 1.7% $0.13 $0.63 1.5 21:22 kados library automation software Normal 4 377 1.0% $0.30 $1.17 8.3 21:22 kados open source library software Normal 3 187 1.6% $0.07 $0.20 2.1 21:25 chris interesting 21:26 kados yea ... it's cost us $13 so far 00:23 kados du -cks -h 00:23 kados 8.7M . 00:23 kados 8.7M total 02:59 Sylvain hi 03:01 hdl hi 03:03 jean Hi 03:12 Sylvain does someone know if debts are managed ? When I create a new borrower, it doesn't create a debt with the amount it owes ... 03:13 Sylvain s/it/he 03:22 hdl It is managed, but not automatically. 03:23 Sylvain you have to create an 'accountline' every time you create a user ? 03:24 hdl looks like :( 03:24 Sylvain erg, bad :( 03:24 hdl Thought it would be automatic. 03:24 Sylvain yes, when you define the borrower categories, you've to set an enrolment fee, isn't it used ? 03:25 hdl But To my mind, argentin folks may have worked on taht. 03:25 hdl No It is not used :( 03:25 hdl Or we should take a closer look. 03:31 Sylvain http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=225 03:31 hdl I have. Doesn't look like a credit line is added. 03:38 Sylvain it seems that there are also problem with the expiry dates of new users and things like that ... 03:38 Sylvain the user management seems to need some improvements ... 04:05 Sylvain when you create a user, it doesn't save it's enrollement date, strange ... 04:08 hdl yes. 04:11 Sylvain but how do libraries manage these problems ? It seems to be big problems, no ? 04:14 hdl quite. 10:32 hdl hi owen 10:32 owen hi 10:59 hdl kados, can you provide me with more information about the marc record leader, some URL ressources ? 11:20 kados hdl: sure ... hang on a second 11:20 kados hdl: do you mean MARC21? 11:20 kados hdl: here's the synopsis: 11:20 kados http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ecbdldrd.html 11:21 kados hdl: are you working on the Z39.50 server? 11:37 hdl kados : yes, I am trying to get the results from the Z39.50 server. 11:38 hdl kados : For the moment, this is the only result I get : 11:38 hdl 5990/39 : KOHATEST : 66 records found, retrieving them (max 80) 11:38 hdl 5988/39 : LYON3 : 65 records found, retrieving them (max 80) 11:38 hdl 5990/39 : KOHATEST : localhost:9999 records retrieved 66 SPEED: 6 11:38 hdl 5990/39 : localhost:9999 search done. 11:38 hdl 11:39 hdl So : it gets the results but never diplay them. 11:43 hdl kados, btw do you have some more Information about items lost 11:47 kados items lost? 11:47 kados hdl: about the Z39.50: did you try populating the leader with the values I gave you last time? 11:48 kados here is the 'release notes' for the Z39.50 server: 11:48 kados http://lists.katipo.co.nz/public/koha/2004/002694.html 11:50 hdl Yes, I tried to but that doesnot fix the problem. 11:54 hdl But how did you build the leader ?