Time Nick Message 10:48 owen Yeah, even searching for an isbn that came up in the previous search doesn't work 10:45 shaun | brb 10:43 shaun there still appears to be a problem with searching for ISBNs 10:34 shaun thanks paul - the problem appears to be the time the daemon takes to refresh... 10:33 shaun got it! it seems as if the error message is still showing up though... 10:33 paul_away right shaun, the bug was not this. It was something like "mysql disappear". 10:32 owen After the pop-up refreshes once or twice, three results come up 10:31 owen I typed 'the client' in the 245a field (tab 1), and clicked the z39.50 button 10:31 shaun done 10:31 owen I went here: http://koha.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl 10:30 shaun owen? 10:29 shaun that time, the error didnt come up in the log - could you guide me through what you did (i am at catalogue > add biblio atm)? 10:28 owen Yeah, I get 3 results for a search for 'the client', from Z3950-ZED.NATLIB.GOVT.NZ 10:27 shaun owen: ok, now if possible 10:24 owen sure 10:24 shaun ben: don't touch anything for a min, owen: I'm restarting the z39.50 daemon with a new log for me to capture; could you try the search again in 5 minutes time please? 10:22 Ben brb for 20 mins 10:21 shaun was the bug similar to this problem? 10:21 Ben tx 10:21 Ben ok 10:21 paul_away will have a look on monday. 10:21 Ben paul_away, hi 10:21 paul_away mmm... strange. 10:21 Ben paul_away, we're using 2.2.2 10:21 shaun this is 2.2.2 10:21 paul_away (not really here) 10:21 shaun lol... 10:21 paul_away shaun : there's a bug in z3950 client in 2.2.1 it's fixed in 2.2.2 10:21 Ben based on my measuring their speed of doing so using ALICE yesterday 10:20 Ben we want dimbleby/baldwin to be able to run and print the results of an enquiry on psychyology or sociology within 35 seconds 10:20 shaun back 10:19 Ben I have found some usage targets... 10:19 shaun brb 10:19 shaun at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/Net/Z3950/Manager.pm line 258 10:19 shaun Event: '?? Connection.pm:153' died and then $Event::DIED died with: Can't call method "attributes" without a package or object reference at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/Event.pm line 104. 10:18 Ben sorry 10:18 Ben lol 10:18 shaun don't worry, ben... it is now conveniently unplugged, and the print queue is being moved to /dev/null, or somewhere thereabouts. 10:17 Ben whoops.. (aplogogies to shaun if his printer starts printing at this point) 10:15 shaun yes 10:14 owen Did you put a title in the 245a field? 10:14 shaun owen: what results do you get for "the client"? I have tried it and it doesn't seem to want to connect, with the same error message each time. 10:13 Ben ah 10:13 shaun I am on that page 10:13 Ben I think 10:12 Ben shaun, you should be on this page: http://koha.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbooks.pl 10:12 Ben owen, what title would you suggest? 10:10 shaun am i doing this wrong? I still get Still ?? requests to go 10:10 Ben (most of it remains unchanged) 10:08 Ben shaun, I just sent my revised-messages version of circulations.tmpl 10:08 Ben when are we getting some data? 10:07 Ben bye kados 10:06 kados I've got to go 10:06 owen shaun, try a z39.50 search using a title instead of an isbn. That worked for me 10:06 kados check the email archives ... there may be some answers there 10:06 kados good luck with that z-client 10:05 kados hehe 10:05 shaun at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/Net/Z3950/Manager.pm -- i think this is the problem... 10:05 shaun Event: '?? Connection.pm:153' died and then $Event::DIED died with: Can't call method "attributes" without a package or object reference at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.5/i386-linux-thread-multi/Event.pm line 104. 10:05 shaun 5166/38 : zed.natlib.govt.nz:210 search done. 10:05 shaun 5166/38 : ZED.NATLIB.GOVT.NZ : no records found 10:05 shaun 5166/38 : connected to ZED.NATLIB.GOVT.NZ 10:05 shaun 5166/38 : creating and 5166/38 : working on results entry 10 10:05 shaun 5166/38 : 2 >> 10:05 shaun 5166/38 : Processing isbn=0385510454 at ZED.NATLIB.GOVT.NZ zed.natlib.govt.nz:210 pinz MARC21 (3 forks) 10:05 Ben yes 10:05 Ben buried in Paramaters/Settings, it's configurable 10:05 kados yep 10:05 shaun its a hard limit - as in it cannot be overrided by the librarian, only the person who sets parameters - am i right in saying that? 10:04 Ben no, it's not hardcoded 10:04 kados it's hard coded? 10:04 owen Guys your add biblio screen needs work :) But then again, so does mine! 10:04 kados not sure I understand what that means 10:03 shaun i*s* 10:03 shaun i would suggest that the 'max debt before no loans' setting i a hard limit. 10:03 kados so it will query staff before allowing an issue ... pretty standard procedure 10:03 kados no it just means that the borrorer has debt ;-) 10:02 Ben kados, any ideas? 10:02 Ben kados? 10:02 Ben oh dear 10:02 owen Could be...I'm not sure because we don't charge fines here 10:01 Ben does that mean that the borrower has exceeded their group's 'max debt before no loans' setting? 10:01 Ben <p>The borrower has a debt of <!-- TMPL_VAR name="DEBT" -->. Continue?</p> 10:01 Ben <!-- TMPL_IF NAME="DEBT" --> 10:00 shaun 5143/37 : zed.natlib.govt.nz:210 search done. 10:00 shaun 5143/37 : ZED.NATLIB.GOVT.NZ : no records found 10:00 shaun 5143/37 : connected to ZED.NATLIB.GOVT.NZ 10:00 shaun 5143/37 : creating and 5143/37 : working on results entry 9 10:00 shaun 5143/37 : 2 >> 10:00 shaun 5143/37 : Processing isbn=0385510454 at ZED.NATLIB.GOVT.NZ zed.natlib.govt.nz:210 pinz MARC21 (2 forks) 09:59 shaun none of the ISBNs i have tried have worked 09:59 Ben ok.. 09:59 owen debarred is a term used by some library systems 09:59 kados Ben: nope that's actually the right term 09:58 owen It looks from the behavior of the z39.50 search that it's working properly, but the isbn I tried turned up nothing 09:58 Ben is 'patron is debarred' a Poulain mistranslation meaning 'patron is banned/barred' ? 09:57 Ben :) 09:57 Ben owen, we should ask nicely 09:57 Ben * patron is barred 09:57 owen Some developers in Argentina have worked out a calendar system, but they haven't shared the code with us 09:56 Ben I presume that 'patron is debarred' is a Poulain mistranslation meaning 'patron is debarred' 09:56 owen Ben, there isn't a way to specify those yet 09:56 Ben what about school terms, shaun? bank holidays? unscheduled closing? 09:55 owen Looks okay to me, but I'm not an authority on z39.50 settings 09:54 shaun good - are the settings for z39.50 OK? 09:54 owen Yeah, so your parameters screen is working now that auth is back on 09:54 shaun theoretically, it cannot calculate that: if the loan time is say two weeks, the return date will be the same day, two weeks time... 09:53 shaun *was wondering how a library system could go without having several copies of popular books 09:53 Ben we don't want it calculating that books need to be back on a day the library is going to be closed 09:52 Ben how about opening days? 09:52 Ben goodo 09:52 owen Ben, of course 09:52 Ben no, I mean multiple copies of the same book 09:52 shaun "multiple copies" -- you mean multiple installations on one server? sure :p 09:52 Ben shaun, circulations.tmpl please 09:51 owen Sorry, I got busy here. 09:50 Ben and also, is there any 'opening days' work in the pipeline/present? 09:49 Ben btw owen, I presume koha has support for multiple copies? 09:49 shaun owen: are our z39.50 settings OK? 09:49 shaun ah... 09:49 Ben I meant circulations.tmpl... guh *slaps head* 09:48 shaun sent; please don't go editing it - we are trying to separate content from presentation 09:48 Ben doh 09:48 Ben thanks 09:46 Ben shaun,can you please send me circulations.pl? 09:46 shaun and username is kohaadmin 09:46 Ben oh well 09:45 Ben the password is hexthouse 09:43 Ben ok 09:43 shaun auth is back on - i am changing the password to give to owen, and other devs who want it 09:43 Ben ah 09:42 shaun tidy cannot tell things that are only in XHTML strict - e.g. something=something instead of something="something" on the returns page 09:41 Ben shall we just let tidy do it? w3c validator is really annoyingly pedantic, and causes thesae problems 09:40 owen koha permissions 09:40 shaun are you talking about koha permissions (member-flags.pl) or unix permissions? 09:39 shaun if there was a checker more comprehensive than Tidy in firefox, I would use that... 09:39 owen You have to have the right priviledges to access admin-home.pl 09:38 Ben yes, we did encounter that 09:38 Ben we're not evaluating its security, we're checking the XHTML 09:37 shaun security isn't really an issue... 09:37 owen Have you seen this page? http://koha.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/cgi-bin/koha/members/member-flags.pl?member=1 09:37 owen Well, you can't evaluate Koha's security if you've got it turned off! 09:37 Ben i.e. without uploading 09:36 Ben we did that to let the w3c validator check it non-tediously 09:36 shaun ben turned that off so W3C can check it 09:36 owen I was able to get into your intranet with no username or password--that's what's insecure 09:35 shaun hang on, yes i can, by using the full path - is this a potential security issue, an unpriveleged user being able to access the settings? 09:34 owen First, make sure you have the most up-to-date copy of Auth.pm 09:34 owen There are a few things you need to check to get system administration working again 09:33 shaun what is the location of the login script .pl? the unpriveleged user is unable to access parameters, and thus I can't get into the z39.50 settings 09:31 shaun yes - new zealand got further *tries to dig out logs* 09:31 Ben shaun, did you try any z39.50 servers at all except the british library one? 09:30 Ben ja 09:30 owen If only z39.50 was working for you, you could grab some things that way 09:30 Ben yes 09:30 shaun we don't have any source of data for books - although I will try Eunice for some MARC data ;) 09:30 Ben (patrons are me, shaun and my dad) 09:29 Ben no books though 09:29 shaun lol 09:29 Ben we have three patrons 09:29 Ben we did lift the tabs wholesale from mozilla.org, but we're working on our own 09:29 owen Do you have *any* data at all? Any books or patrons entered? 09:29 Ben thanks 09:29 Ben whatever 09:29 shaun thanks 09:29 shaun its catalogue 09:29 shaun wrong again 09:29 owen Yes, the design looks good 09:29 shaun * its circulations, not acquisitions 09:28 shaun yes, we do - but z39.50 has errors... "Looks good." -- referring to the design? 09:28 Ben aquisitions > add biblio has been broken by shaun's cssing, and it was incomprehensible when it worked 09:28 Ben mm. 09:27 owen Looks good. You need some sample data, though, hunh? 09:27 Ben back 09:26 Ben brb 09:26 shaun the z3950daemon is not running atm, ill fire it up... 09:26 Ben we're doing our interface mods on it 09:26 shaun yes - its running on fedora core 3 09:26 Ben http://koha.shaunevans.co.uk:8080/cgi-bin/koha/acqui/acqui-home.pl 09:26 Ben yup 09:25 owen Do you have a test installation of Koha up and running? 09:25 Ben you must remember I am 14 years old, British and in possession of a headache and small brother in the background 09:25 Ben shaun, hrrm 09:24 shaun | well done, ben :p 09:24 Ben ok 09:24 owen And the status becomes 'reserved_waiting' when they are checked in and the reservation is confirmed 09:24 Ben right 09:24 owen the reserved status is for items which haven't been checked in yet--although they may not be checked out 09:24 bengoodge ? 09:23 bengoodge and it becomes 'reserved_waiting' when the item becomes available for the reservee to collect, hence 'waiting' status? 09:22 bengoodge so 'reserved' status is for items which haven't been checked back in yet? 09:22 bengoodge ok 09:22 owen Koha knows that a reserve has been fulfulled when the reserved item is checked in and the reservation is confirmed by the librarian 09:21 shaun ok, thanks 09:21 bengoodge for reserved, the item has not yet been 'returned and allocated' < meaning what? 09:21 owen Come back Monday evening (your time) and ask rach. She'll know the font 09:20 shaun owen: should the logo, in the top left-hand corner of our design include anything other than koha? (eg LIBRARY SYSTEM)? 09:19 bengoodge let's recap 09:18 bengoodge I used bold, btw 09:18 bengoodge that's the one in use on the koha.org/drive test-drive system 09:17 bengoodge http://hlt.katipo.co.nz/intranet-tmpl/default/en/images/koha-front-koha.gif 09:17 shaun both the o and the a need to be more hollow, and the h should not be as high. 09:17 bengoodge maybe I used the separate italic font and they just italicised it 09:17 owen Depends on your library's policy. In our library the person with the book in their hands gets top priority, so the librarian will always override the reservation and check the book out 09:16 bengoodge however, every other letter matches up.. 09:16 bengoodge good point 09:15 shaun the K seems to have a loop in yours. 09:14 shaun ben: compare serverroot/intranet-tmpl/default/images/kohalogo.gif with http://katipo.co.nz/albums/album103/koha_logo_001.thumb.jpg 09:14 bengoodge so what would a suitable error message be for reserve? 'Item is on reserve. Please set it aside and notify <-- reserved -->'? 09:12 bengoodge it's bodomi mt italic 09:12 bengoodge no, it's definitely bodomi mt, I looked at it character by character 09:12 shaun * yay, i understand 09:12 shaun ben: are you sure that's not just your fake of the koha logo, not the official one? 09:12 bengoodge ok 09:12 owen yes 09:11 bengoodge so reserved is for books which haven't yet been set aside, and reserve_waiting is for books which have been set aside? 09:11 bengoodge right.. 09:10 bengoodge knew it was something like that 09:10 owen reserved is for any book that hasn't been returned and allocated by the system. It might be checked out, or it might be on the shelf. 09:10 bengoodge bodoni mt 09:10 shaun owen, do you know the font? 09:10 bengoodge hang on.. 09:10 bengoodge no 09:10 bengoodge so reserved is for books which are on loan; reserved_waiting is for books which are in the library. 09:09 shaun | batami mt: are you sure? 09:09 bengoodge right.. 09:09 bengoodge batami mt 09:09 owen RESERVED is for books which are on reserve, but haven't been allocated by the system yet (because they haven't been found and returned by the librarian) 09:09 shaun So many questions: what is the font for the 'Koha' in the official logo? 09:08 bengoodge so 'reserved' is for books in the library rather than set aside, for someone who is coming in later to get them? 09:08 shaun dunno, im on x-chat, rtm :p 09:08 bengoodge chatzilla obeys standard irc commands 09:07 bengoodge how? 09:07 shaun ben: change your name from bengoodge to ben ;) 09:07 bengoodge no, wait.. 09:06 bengoodge so, we have for reserved: 09:06 owen The circulation system lets the librarian confirm the issue to the patron and cancel the reserve at the same time (since the reserve is getting fulfilled) 09:06 bengoodge hang on, shaun 09:06 shaun *is confused 09:06 bengoodge right 09:06 owen Like a husband coming in to pick up his wife's reserves. In that case the books are being checked out by someone other than the patron for whom the books were originally reserved 09:05 bengoodge as long as it works roughly the same in ie, go for it 09:05 owen A 'RESERVE_WAITING' is supposedly being held at the desk for the patron who reserved it, but there are cases where another patron might want to check the item out 09:04 owen The system now knows that the reserve has been fulfilled (that is, an item has been found that matches the requirements), and that frees up the other copies to circulate 09:04 bengoodge moz-specific is fine 09:04 shaun Me being a web designer - does anybody have any opinions on the use of Mozilla-specific CSS3? rounded corners are nice, but afaik they're not going to be implemented in IE, and IE is the browser of the library that we are trying to get Koha used in. 09:03 owen When a reserved item is returned by the librarian, the item is allocated by the system to fulfill that reserve, and is given the status 'waiting' 09:03 bengoodge brb 09:03 bengoodge specifically: the difference between them 09:03 bengoodge I can understand reserved, but not reserve_waiting 09:02 owen When an item is placed on reserve, it gets a reserved status 09:02 bengoodge yes.. 09:02 owen It has to do with the status of a reserved item which is being checked out 09:01 bengoodge even stuart can't figure this one out, shaun.. 09:00 bengoodge so, for RESERVE_WAITING and RESERVED, what is the difference between them? 09:00 bengoodge hmm 09:00 owen Oh, maybe this is it: http://www.ttllp.co.uk/koha/ 09:00 kados I don't this there ever was ;-) 08:59 owen But I don't even see anything on his site about Koha now. 08:59 owen This guy used to be active with Koha: http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ 08:59 shaun Ben: talk on gaim > 08:58 bengoodge saw that a while ago 08:58 bengoodge shaun, I looked last night... it looks basically the same as before, can we change the text size/margins/padding please.. 08:58 kados have you guys seen http://liblime.com? 08:57 shaun Ben: have you been on the testing server today? I have touched up #submenu. 08:57 bengoodge what is the difference between them? 08:57 owen circulation.tmpl is just for circulation. Not for returns 08:57 bengoodge namely, RESERVE_WAITING and RESERVED.. 08:56 bengoodge (circulation.tmpl) 08:56 bengoodge for the returns interface, I have come across two items which confuse me 08:56 shaun meh *slaps self over lack of knowledge of unconventional spellings* 08:56 owen kados, what about slef? He's in the UK. 08:55 owen Some systems do use 'enquiry' 08:55 bengoodge shaun, afaik there are none, unless the ones you talked to me about have UK extensions.. 08:55 bengoodge fine 08:55 shaun Ben: it's *Inquiry 08:54 bengoodge btw, in that list email I sent about the reserves, your response was confusing.. 08:54 shaun Talking of which: does anybody know any businesses that support Koha in the UK? Our sysadmins and head librarian are paranoid about using something that is not supported by a company. 08:54 bengoodge poorly designed windows gui.. you have to switch to the master window, scroll down to the 'enquiry' item, and then double click it to get at enquiries 08:53 bengoodge yes 08:53 owen Windows GUI? 08:52 shaun Ours love clicking - the GUI of the program we use is deliberately cryptic. 08:52 bengoodge lol 08:52 bengoodge ours are used to wading through swathes of ineffectively designed windows to get to the simplest function 08:52 owen ...but we make them do it because it builds character 08:51 owen Our librarians hate having to click more than once to get to anything 08:51 bengoodge ah. 08:51 shaun well, in the good old days when the barcode scanner worked, it was taped to the front desk - that was before they went back to the original cards and inserts, etc.# 08:51 owen It's an interesting idea 08:50 bengoodge we could have a strip of them running along the inside edge of the desk for dimbles etc to scan 08:49 bengoodge shaun, I think that's fairly pointless, but could have some sort of use if we don't want mouse usage.. 08:49 shaun the link? 08:48 owen kados is my colleage here at the Nelsonville Public Library, and he's probably asleep, if he has any sense ;) 08:48 owen pate is a lurker, once active with Koha but not lately 08:47 owen paul is the French developer, responsible for most of the latest developments in Koha 08:47 bengoodge brb 08:47 shaun | hi ben - im lagging behind the conversation once again... 08:47 bengoodge ok 08:47 owen chris, rach, and si are New Zealanders (part of the team that originally built Koha) 08:47 shaun We had an idea of using a similar system to Alice (see http://www.softlink.net.au/) to make a series of barcodes, which when scanned access the relevant tab - wdyt? 08:46 bengoodge lol 08:46 owen (probably asleep) 08:46 bengoodge and various others hitherto unencountered. 08:46 owen hi ben 08:46 bengoodge hi owen, shaun.. 08:45 bengoodge got it 08:45 owen I've done some cursory investigation of javascript-driven access keys, but never got anywhere with it 08:45 owen Yeah, that's what I'm using here and there. 08:42 shaun The access keys that we have made so far (for the main 'tabs') are all accesskey="", with a number 08:40 owen Okay 08:40 shaun Ben gave you my hotmail account - things never seem to get there for some reason - my real, attended address is shaun@shaunevans.co.uk 08:39 owen Yup 08:39 shaun hi (soz, just wondering whether I had found the right place...) 08:38 owen Hi shaun 16:08 indradg cya 16:05 chris cya's later 16:05 chris ok, im gonna go find some breakfast 16:02 chris hmm, that sounds like a good plan to me 16:01 indradg i'm thinking --> 1. Create the template for Library Membership cards using kbarcode since its nice and easy --> 2. write the code to parse the XMLised thingie that is actually the template -> 3. re-use some of the current barcodes.pl --> generate the cards on-demand from inside koha with addition to the borrowers table abt their card generated status 15:59 chris excellent :) 15:58 indradg its working nicely 15:57 indradg i'm currently printing library id cards (bar-coded) using kbarcode 15:57 chris yeah 15:54 indradg politics ensured that we didnt play with pakistan for last so many years 15:52 indradg aah... i c 15:50 chris because of the human rights issue .. and zimbabwe are still suspended from the commonwealth ... politics vs sports 15:48 indradg why the controversy? 15:46 chris the controversy here at the moment is all about wether we should tour zimbabwe or not 15:45 chris yeah .. and dravid is a much better batsman than he is a keeper .. well in my opinion anyway 15:44 indradg its good to have a full-time keeper... at least relieves Dravid from doing triple duty in the matches which he also has to captain during the absence of ganguly 15:43 indradg one new face has come in the picture during the indo-pak series - Mahinder Singh Dhoni, the keeper... who can also bat :) 15:42 chris flemming was having quite poor form problems as well, he seems to have finally got back into form 15:41 chris yeah 15:41 indradg but he really needs to get back in form and *fast*! 15:40 indradg and going by statistics he also happens to be india's most successful test and ODI capt 15:40 indradg ganguly is the first indian capt who refused to follow regional patterns... and brought in and mentored talented players from other regions 15:39 indradg generally the capts would promote players from their own province... often at the expense of the other good players... and there would be tremendous amt of regional politics 15:38 chris and now they lose the force behind that? 15:38 chris so they are finally playing well as a team? 15:38 chris ahhh 15:38 indradg indian cricket team never had a *real* national identity 15:37 indradg not that easy.... ganguly has changed the nature of the indian team during his tenure as capt 15:36 chris maybe a blessing in disguise .. force the selectors to pick another batsman 15:36 indradg yes... hasn't got many runs in the last 13 or so matches 15:35 chris he's been a little out of form with the bat as well eh? 15:35 indradg yes... slow over rate 15:35 indradg pakistan has some really good players 15:35 chris ahh right ... for slow over rate? 15:34 chris we scored 304 .. and he nearly got pakistan there .. 302 they got .. that was a great game 15:34 indradg indian media is full of the controversy over indian captain 6 match suspension 15:34 chris i remember when they played nz in 2003/4 15:33 chris ohh excellent .. that afridi .. boy can he hit or what 15:33 indradg chris, yep! today was a holiday on account of indian new year... so got to watch the match 15:32 chris the 6th game is gonna be huge 15:31 chris indradg: some good cricket being played over in your part of the world at the moment 15:17 chris one things libraries dont do .. and thats hurry :-) 15:17 indradg same story with govt/institutional tenders here in india 15:17 chris yeah nearly a year 15:17 indradg the tender took a long time? 15:15 chris the interesting thing is, it went thru the full tender process, ie we were competing with the big boys ... so i think its a really good sign for koha 15:14 pate i missed it ... 15:11 indradg chris, saw rachel talking abt it... good show! :) 15:10 chris did you see on the logs we got our 2nd NZ public library yesterday? 15:10 chris pretty good so far, mind you its only 8am :) 15:04 pate hiya Chris ... how's the weekend treating you? 14:55 chris heya pate :) 14:42 pate congrats to any liblimers hanging about