Time Nick Message 03:20 ambrose indeed 03:11 ambrose i tried to do one video today and found that i don't know how to enter the call number 03:10 ambrose i think i'll get the videos catalogued with koha next week, whether my manager likes it or not. no one can search the video catalogue (which exists as just a simple printed list) right now 03:10 ambrose :-) 03:09 kados I agree with the last paragraph:-) 03:09 kados :-) 03:09 ambrose kados: yes, i wrote that up :-) 03:08 kados ambrose: did you write that up? 03:05 ambrose for your amusement, http://ada.dhs.org/~gniw/rcl.html pretty much summarizes the stupid parts of our issuing rules :-) 02:58 kados sweet it worked 02:54 kados the good news is that open bsd is running on the soekris 02:53 kados hehe ... 02:17 kados (what the best allocation would be that is) 02:17 kados anyhoo ... if you happen by I've got it recognizing the 256MB CF card and I'm trying to sort out how to do the partitions 02:04 kados but I think I understand the process now 02:04 kados (what a chore PXE is!) 02:04 kados I've got my soekris booted with OpenBSD 02:03 kados si back from dog training? 23:07 kados or si? 23:06 kados chris around? 18:18 kados wow that looks fun 18:17 kados thanks again si 18:17 si later 18:15 si could be a blokart day 18:15 si hmm, wind is getting up http://www.huttcity.govt.nz/about/weather/ 18:14 kados :-) 18:14 si but we do tend to bunk off and go snoeboarding then anyway 18:14 si since that's winter 18:14 si well, the downside is that we don't get a holiday in the middle of the year like the norther hemisphere does 18:14 kados but haven't had a chance to visit yet 18:13 kados I've thought about moving to NZ 18:13 si hence the reason that we've not done any dog training with the club since mid december 18:13 kados things aren't as relaxed here 18:13 kados that's really nice 18:13 si and things like recreational sport and clubs and whotnot tend to shutdown for a few weeks 18:12 si lots of people not yet back at work, and many won't be till the end of January 18:12 si so there are lots of companies still closed until Monday 18:11 si since they fall at the same time of year 18:11 si yes, you have to remember that here in NZ, Christmas and the summer break become one big holiday 18:11 kados :-) 18:11 si and awful :-) 18:11 si the pups will doubtless all be bigger 18:11 kados wow! 18:11 si first day back after the summer break 18:10 kados thanks for the help si! 18:10 kados sounds like fun 18:10 si so I'm going to go help Rach train dogs 18:10 si right now, however, it's a beautiful summers day here, the sun is pouring in the window 18:10 kados :-) 18:10 kados yep 18:10 si as always, in the wonder world of open source, there are myriad ways to waste great wads of your time 18:09 kados hehe 18:09 si and once it's found the data, it hoovers it off pretty quickly 18:09 si indeed it does 18:08 kados that little disk spins pretty quickly for a reason ;-) 18:08 si so you get a somewhat more responsive system running the Bering way, out of RAMdisk 18:08 kados right I've heard that 18:08 si which is to say, it's seek times are much better, but it's transfer rates are dismal 18:08 si flash is also somewhat slower than a spinning disk, somewhat counterintuitively 18:08 si modern flash is apparently a lot better 18:07 si especially, that you only get a finite number of writes, which may not be very high 18:07 kados well if I get a couple of years out of them I'll be happy 18:07 kados ahh 18:07 si urban myth suggests that CF have much lower duty cycles than spinning hard disks 18:06 kados 'wear out'? 18:06 si although you could mitigate most of that by logging back to a central syslog server 18:06 si OTOH, the bering style systems won't wear out your CF, but the debian install will 18:06 kados gotcha 18:06 kados makes sense ... it needs to eb decompressed before the files are readable ... 18:05 si where as with a stock debian install, you just run straight from CF 18:05 kados ahh 18:05 si so you can't run from it directly 18:05 si so the softwar on it is compressed to death 18:05 si since Bering was and is still designed to run off a floppy 18:05 kados are new kernels being used (2.6es?) 18:04 si that's one of the tradeoffs 18:04 kados ahh 18:04 si which you lose as operating RAM 18:04 si of 6-12MB 18:04 si Bering boots from your boot media, and extracts all the files into a ram disk 18:04 si is that debian will be less consumptive of RAM than bering 18:03 si ohh, one thing to bear in mind 18:03 si the BSD people weren't as quick out of the blocks in getting their OS's running out of RAM disks 18:03 si which has been around a lot longer 18:03 si they all looked like they weren't as well sorted as bering 18:03 si I've not played with the other bsd based flash boot systems 18:02 si monowall is definitely worth a look, if only because it's real easy to setup 18:02 kados I think I'll do both while I wait for the IDE convertor to arrive :-) 18:02 kados hehe 18:02 si you'll have great fun 18:02 si then stick a 32MB CF in, and muck around with PXE Installs 18:01 si if you want to muck around and learn some for the leat amount of dollars spent 18:01 kados :-) 18:01 si if you just wnat it to work, get a bigger CF and an IDE convertoer, wack it in an ordinary PC to do setup, and you'll be good to go licketysplit 18:01 si well, you've some kind of time<->pfaffing<->money tradeoff here 17:58 kados well I've done ltsp ... I wouldn't say I'm particularly farmiliar with it ;-) 17:57 si if you're familiar with ltsp, then setting up pxe to setup the soekris shouldn't be too hard 17:57 kados yea I've got lots to learn 17:57 si yes, a lot like 17:57 kados sounds a bit like LTSP 17:57 si and the machines download their kernels from off the ethernet 17:56 si so you setup a DHCP server with some extra info, and a TFTP server 17:56 si PXE is netbooting 17:56 si you'll certainly learn some stuff :-) 17:56 kados yea? 17:56 si it might be the way to go for you 17:56 kados I've got a lexar CF ... no sandisks 17:56 si we use a homebuilt PXE installation to setup our soekris's 17:55 si there looks to be a squid package for bering 17:55 si sandisk CF have been good for us 17:54 si you may struggle to get older CF bootable 17:54 kados I've had the same problem with my Zaurus 17:54 si things to watch out with the soekris, are that not all CF are created equal 17:53 si http://leaf.sourceforge.net/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=view&ANN_id=37 17:53 si http://leaf.sourceforge.net/bering-uclibc/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=3&MMN_position=3:3 17:53 si which also may be worth a look 17:53 si althougk, I do note that the bering people now have a pxelinux rig 17:52 si since getting a CDROM drive or similar onto the soekris is non trivial, it's easier to do it on a more standard machine 17:52 si which can be difficult to do in pcmcia or USB adapters 17:51 kados mucking about with serial and such :-) 17:51 kados yea ... I was dreading that 17:51 si it saves a whole bunch of grief around getting the thing bootable 17:51 kados nice! 17:51 si yes 17:50 kados I could install the os on a regular pc and then just plug it in, eh? 17:50 kados wow ... that does look nice 17:49 si although finding one closer than switzerland would be the go 17:49 si http://www.pcengines.ch/cflash.htm 17:49 si to save yourself going utterly mental, you might want to go for one of these: 17:49 kados so would you recommend bering for squid/sg? 17:48 kados :-) 17:48 si and my irishman isn't even a catholic :-) 17:48 kados and the wonders of undelete ;-) 17:48 kados dad deleting it 17:48 si yet another of the devils works 17:47 kados those were the days 17:47 kados ahh Dos6.22 17:47 kados :-) 17:47 si which in fact includes 1.2MB of DOS6.22 :-) 17:47 kados :-) 17:47 si which takes up about 8MB of flash for our default load 17:47 kados bering eh? 17:46 si on our soekris's we use Bering 17:46 si to the point where you might as well start playing with the CF specific distros 17:46 si my experience is that getting debian in less than 256 is a bit tedious 17:46 kados 256 is the biggest I've got atm 17:46 si any of the CF bigger than 256MB? 17:46 si fair enough 17:44 kados I've got a few CFs however 17:44 kados I didn't want to spend library money if it flopped :-) 17:44 kados this soekris board came out of my pocket ... 17:43 si you might want to invest in a CF <-> IDE adapter 17:43 si then transfer that to CF 17:43 si and make sure that you can get everything you want to get running running 17:43 si and turn off swap 17:42 si my inclination would be to attach a hard disk with debian on it to your soekris 17:42 kados right ... none of my debs have X (except one partition on my laptop) 17:42 si and kept the number of listening daemons to an absolute minimum 17:41 si like X, and so forth 17:41 si there's absolutely no reason why a stock debian shouldn't work off flash in 128MB RAM, so long as you didn't go hog wild with extra clag 17:41 kados what's the application ? 17:41 si because we're running apache, perl, mysql and so forth off the flash 17:40 si which works ok, but the mobos in questino have at least 512MB RAM 17:40 si I've been experimenting with debian of flash on some more stock EPIA motherboards 17:40 kados openbsd? 17:39 kados ahh 17:39 si we don't use debian on the soekris's 17:39 kados what debian distro do you use for your soekris? 17:39 kados right 17:39 si I've no idea what the RAM utilisation of sg is, I've never run it 17:38 kados cool 17:38 si if you're not caching, you'll probably be ok 17:38 si from memory, squid uses loads of RAM, but uses it for caching objects, and keeping indexes of it's cache 17:38 kados I wonder how much hp squid would take up if it was just doing tp for a small list like dmoz and squidguard 17:38 si the difference is probably zebra, which can use an arbitrary amount of RAM, depending on how many routes there are in your route table 17:37 kados wow that's great 17:37 si 19MB in use 17:37 si MemFree: 43900 kB 17:37 si MemTotal: 63192 kB 17:36 kados :-) 17:36 si sadly, it crashes every four months or so, for reasons I haven't been able to fathom 17:35 kados that's pretty cool 17:35 kados wow 17:35 si it's using 31MB RAM, after 60 days of operation 17:34 si MemFree: 225556 kB 17:34 si MemTotal: 256508 kB 17:34 si it has a metric truckload of firewall rules 17:34 si byw way of comparison, this is a P4 box with 16 ethernet interfaces, that's been up for 65 days, and it runs ssh, snmpd, zebra, cron, inetd and a few gettys 17:34 kados I'm thinking that the dmoz and squidguard lists aren't that big ... 17:32 si you'll get change from 32MB if that's all you do with the box 17:31 si since that all takes place in the kernel 17:31 si it's certainly more than enough for the basic firewalling and NAT and whatnot 17:31 kados ahh ... right 17:31 si because you don't have a lot of swap available 17:30 kados 128MB sound like enough? 17:30 si where you need to be careful is that you have enough RAM for everything you want to do 17:30 kados sounds promising 17:30 kados right 17:30 si so that gives you a certain amount of room to play in 17:30 si basic debian takes about 270MB 17:30 si we're using debian on 1GB flash 17:29 kados I'm not opposed to linux tho if it'd do the job as well 17:29 si for ease of setup and use, it's pretty hard to go past debian on CF 17:29 si fair enough 17:29 kados yea 17:28 si and you're thinking BSD for the 4801? 17:28 kados but I'd like to branch into the BSDs to expand my knowledge a bit (iykwim) 17:28 kados currently linux (mix between debian and redhat/fedora) 17:28 si what OS do you use for servers? 17:27 si in terms of the 4801, you can either run with CF, or you can get a 2.5inch HD mount 17:26 si so in rigs I've built down here, we've had the firewall running fairly lightweight, off flash, redirecting to a seperate box running squid 17:26 kados right ... 17:26 si so you need much disk, and thus CPU and RAM as well 17:25 si since you'r aiming to store a pile of stuff 17:25 si so we sould normally spec quite a big box for caching 17:25 kados :-) 17:25 si all the caching gurus are down under, and not in the US 17:25 si apparently Cisco's content caching divisino is actually housed in Australia, for much the same sorts of reasons 17:24 si so there's real incentive to not use it, if you can avoid it 17:24 kados I'm sure 17:24 si and trans pacific bandwidth costs amounts of money that truly would make your Ohio eyes water 17:24 kados :-) 17:23 si since we're a stupidly long way from anywhere 17:23 si now, here in NZ, we normally run squid for content caching 17:23 kados good news then 17:23 kados right ... 17:22 si it is certainly easiest to do all this on the same box, but you could in theory have your firewall redirects, your squid, and your squidguard all on seperate boxes 17:22 kados I was wondering how the two interacted 17:22 kados (this is starting to make sense) ... 17:21 si so at that point, squid is deciding what to do with the http request, based on it's configuratino, which may include lookups through squidguard 17:21 kados ok 17:20 si ie, squid, or similar 17:20 si listening on that TCP port is a process that knows how to read the HTTP request, and service it 17:20 kados right ... and by TCP port you mean a logical port ... could be the same interface right? 17:20 si there is no particular requirement that hte transparent proxy be on the same machine as the "http stealing" firewall rules 17:19 si that TCP port could be on the same machine, or it could be elsewhere on your network 17:19 si once you've got that, and iptables or pf or similar, then you can redirect the http/https traffic to another TCP port 17:18 kados right 17:18 si either way, it has to see the entire communication between the client, and the interweb 17:18 kados my idea was that the soekris would be the NAT firewall 17:18 si but it could be some other bridging device that you stick live in the network 17:17 si normally that would be your NAT firewall 17:17 si you need some device that sees all the traffic, to pick up the http requests 17:17 kados hehe 17:17 si the answer, in a nutshell, is that you need all those things 17:17 kados nope 17:16 si you've never setup a tranny proxy before? 17:16 si mm, ok 17:16 kados my tcp/ip isn't that strong 17:15 kados but that's probably a bad idea 17:15 kados and maybe some perl ;-) 17:15 kados probably ... though recently I was wondering if I could do the whole thing with iptables and linux 17:14 si so you presumably need squid to handle the actual heavy lifting 17:14 kados and since the last release was Dec 2001 I'd say it hasn't changed 17:14 si sg sits inside squid 17:13 kados last I checked I don't think squidguard did transparent proxies 17:13 kados too even 17:13 kados yep ... we'd like to have that list oo 17:12 si there is active blacklisting in squidguard 17:12 kados so that'd take care of storage issues I should think 17:11 kados yep there is a CF slot here 17:11 kados no ... but I'm pretty sure that's easy to get out of dmoz 17:10 si that breaks down to a list of URL's? 17:10 kados and the list of who can auth comes from our borrower table 17:10 si and you don't yet have a machine readable definition of dubious 17:09 kados yep 17:09 si and at that point you want them to auth 17:09 si so you want the punters to have free access until they go somewhere dubious 17:08 kados this would be the 'free' version 17:08 si so it does 17:08 kados IPrism maintains a database of their own 17:08 kados we don't use dmoz atm 17:07 si so how do you use it at the moment? 17:07 kados no ... just a human edited directory with nifty categories like 'porn' 17:07 si dmoz.org provides some kind of filtered access? 17:07 kados hey rach 17:06 rach hello 17:06 kados I think I can do a CF on the 4801 17:06 si ahh 17:06 kados dmoz.org 17:05 kados open directory = dmoz 17:05 si dmoz? 17:05 si you get 128MB RAM with the 4801? 17:05 kados and I'd like to use the dmoz directory to determine what falls into the 'moderated' category (currently only porn and chat do) 17:04 kados well ... here's the other side of this coin ... we want to use our Koha database to determine who has override privileges :-) 17:04 si but sweet FA of the interweb 17:04 si you can cache a lot of DNS in 1MB of RAM 17:03 si DNS caching is a much less intensive task 17:03 kados but that's all 17:03 kados dns caching would be nice for security reasons 17:03 kados just content mediation 17:03 kados nope 17:03 si or just the content mediation? 17:03 si are you after the caching aspects of a proxy? 17:02 kados hehe 17:02 si he freely acknowledges that the devil is a busy entity :-) 17:01 kados :-) 17:01 si are more of my Irishmans devils work... 17:01 si and dsl 17:01 si modems 17:01 kados right! 17:01 kados (before our ISP sorta handled that ) 17:01 si and by their assymetrical nature, you don't want to haul that data back to a central point via VPNs 17:01 kados so firewalling is really important now 17:00 kados yep 17:00 kados some have gone to DSL, some to Cable Modem 17:00 si righto, so your libraries are moving onto DSL-like services that are connected to the interweb directly? 17:00 kados so we're losing our 'gateway' 16:59 kados and our networks are decentralizing 16:59 kados we don't have a firewall currently at any location 16:59 si so what's wrong with the current box? 16:59 kados I thought the easiest way to solve our current overall network prob would be to put a firewall at each branch that did transparent proxying and dhcp + dns cacheing 16:59 si yes, 200 desktops is a fair number 16:58 kados thos are the three main requirements 16:58 kados well I guess as long as I had a way to avoid having to change every browser, and could still offer temporary overrides and not force any kind of login I'd be ok with any solution 16:57 si I don't know if they've been resolved or not, I think at the time they looked pretty fundamental 16:57 kados (for us) 16:56 kados but costs a pretty penny 16:56 kados hmmm, we've been using IPrism which as far as I can tell is a tp 16:56 kados we used to be fairly centralized with one gateway router at NPL 16:56 kados our network is so messy currently it's hard to even talk about 16:55 kados maybe squid or squidguard 16:55 kados about 200 users at about 1.0Mb spread over seven locations 16:55 si and what software do you propose to use for the tp? 16:54 si how many users are you going to be putting through the proxy, and at what sort of bandwidth utilisations? 16:53 si anyhoo, choices over how you implement your proxy is kind of up to you, if you can cope with the vagueness that transparent proxying introduces, then run with it 16:53 kados :-) 16:53 si which are the devils work :-) 16:53 si than using transparent proxies 16:52 kados yea .. 16:52 si but it does tend to make the browsing experience a little more reliable 16:52 kados our network is pretty messy currently 16:52 si it's pretty low rent, and does require that the machines be configured to use the proxy 16:51 kados that sounds like a nice setup 16:51 si ie, if they disabled the proxy, nothing worked 16:51 si we did this for the opacs at HLT, to force them to use the proxy 16:51 si and not allow them to make outbound http/https/ftp requests 16:51 si so you can firewall the endusers internally 16:51 si then from the POV of your NAT firewall, all requests are coming from the cache, not from the end users 16:50 si well, if you set machines to use a standard proxy - squid, apache, or something commercial 16:50 kados right :-) 16:50 si however, if it's only members of the public using it, what do you care if the tranny proxy mucks them up :-) 16:49 kados hmmm ... tell me more 16:49 si just firewall direct access off at the edge 16:49 kados a transparent proxy (we have one now that we pay lots for) eliminates the need 16:49 kados so patrons could potentially override the filter (i.e., teenage boys who know more about computers than my staff) 16:48 kados right ... well the problem is that not all of our machines are locked down enough 16:48 kados hmmm, well that's an option 16:48 si it's in the firefox proxies tab 16:48 si "Automatic proxy configuratino URL" 16:47 kados hehe 16:47 si you point them at a carefully crafted page on your webserver 16:46 kados from where do you configure them? 16:46 si you can use that to force use of proxies 16:46 si both mozilla and IE have mechanisms to centrally configure them via Javascript 16:45 kados s/muching/mucking/ 16:45 kados well they want 'patron controlled filtering that doesn't require an initial login but only prompts for a login when they visit a questionable site and that's centralized and doesn't require browser muching' 16:45 si it's monkeying with the TCP streams that we find objectionable 16:45 si Neither my Irish friend nor I have any issues with proxying 16:45 kados for filtering 16:45 si or do they want proxying? 16:45 si do they? 16:44 kados but the library wants it 16:44 kados me too 16:44 kados yep 16:44 si and I can't help but concur 16:44 kados well do you think m0n0BSD could handle it? 16:44 si and I suspect that he regards tp similarly 16:44 kados :-) 16:44 si and other things that I don't immediately recall 16:44 kados it's true ... transparent proxies fall into that category 16:43 si Windows 16:43 si NAT 16:43 kados even better :-) 16:43 si who is fond of labelling various things "the devils work" 16:43 kados :-) 16:43 si I have a colleague of genuine Irish extraction 16:43 si the BSD stuff, or transparent proxying? 16:43 kados transparent proxying 16:42 si any of which? 16:42 kados do you do any of that at katipo? 16:42 si but I'm not sure whether it'll manage transparent proxying 16:41 si if you just want something that works out of the box with very little effort, then monowall is fun 16:41 kados s/BDS/BSD/ ;-) 16:41 si mmm 16:41 kados I don't have a BDS installed on my laptop but I just made room on my HD to install it in case it's needed (looks like it from what I can tell) 16:40 kados and do firewall/transparent proxy/dhcp/dns cacheing 16:40 kados I'd like to run one of the BSDs 16:39 kados any pointers? 16:39 si ecellent 16:39 kados I just got my first soekris 4801 16:39 si indeed I am 16:38 kados si around? 16:17 garth I agree completely 16:15 kados garth: I'd recommend investing your time in getting 2.2 up rather than getting Z39.50 working with 1.2.3 ... but that's just my two cents 16:14 kados pretty neat service 16:14 kados anyone seen this link? http://www.libraryelf.com/ 16:14 kados yea ... it's pretty important to our operation too ... we use BookWhere to nab records ... and we do resource sharing with our Z39.50 server 16:13 garth And the client LOOOVES z39.50!! 16:13 garth My upgrade path is to move to 2.2 with MARC for my current 1.2.3 installtion 16:12 kados although ... it would be possible to do it without Koha's MARC 16:12 kados garth: and it requires MARC 16:12 garth cool 16:12 kados garth: well I wrote the Z-Server ... but that's different ;-) 16:11 garth ok, I was just wondering if anyone here has had experience with z39.50 in the 2.x series 16:11 kados owen: network outage? 16:10 kados garth: Your best bet would be to post a message to the list with details on the version of Koha, what you're trying to do, and the exact error messages ... paul will likely write you back within a day or so 16:09 kados garth: but I do recall quite a bit of the mailing list questions having to do with Z39.50 16:09 garth The reason I ask is other than the z39.50 issues Koha has worked excellent for us 16:09 kados garth: we don't use that module at NPL 16:09 kados owen: I haven't had a chance lately. The amazon and spellcheck stuff is almost ready to be committed into 2.3 16:08 garth yeah, I was wondering, do you see alot of z39.50 errors in the 2.x series? 16:08 kados you could search there for a similar error 16:08 kados http://www.koha.org/mailing/ 16:08 kados there are two mailing list archives listed at 16:07 owen Hard for us to diagnose since we don't have a 1.2.3 installation 16:06 kados garth: have you checked the mailing list archive? 16:06 kados garth: I don't know of a quick fix 16:06 garth hi folks, I don't have the time right now to update koha to 2.2 so I was just wondering if you guys had a quick fix for the 1.2.3 z39.50 problem I have. If not, the user will have to wait until I update to 2.x 16:05 owen kados, have you had time to work on any of your Koha special projects lately? 16:02 kados yea. 16:01 owen Hm. 1.2.3 seems so long ago now. 16:01 kados I can't remember now ... I think chris may have done the original for 1.x 16:01 owen I'm assuming that was part of the original MARC work? 16:01 owen Did Paul write the client? 16:00 kados the client is much more complex 16:00 kados yep ... but not server problems ;-) 15:50 owen z3950 problems seem to always top the list of frequently-asked questions. 14:38 kados garth so the error is happening on koha 1.2.3 or koha 2.2? 13:55 garth any thoughts folks? I would like to at least have z39.50 running on the new server 13:54 garth ERROR: Can't call method "option" on an undefined value at /home/eigcampus/domains/library.eigcampus.org/public_html/intranet/cgi-bin/acqui.simple/z3950/processz3950queue line 163, <KC> line 20. 13:54 garth Q: @attr 1=1003 "test" 13:54 garth Processing author="test" at 1 z3950.loc.gov:7090 voyager (1 forks) 13:53 garth hey folks, I having an issue with the ze9.50 daemon on 1.2.3, due to work overload I'm not able to update koha to 2.x, I get the following eror